Bible Discussion Replies PAGE 17

Israel.

Part 2.

Some say the Jews killed Jesus.

He died by the hard of the Jews but all our sins put him on that cross!

He could have resisted but that is what he came to do.

"Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many. Matthew 20:28"

Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. John 10:17-18.

NO MAN TAKETH IT FROM ME, BUT I LAY IT DOWN OF MYSELF. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

If it was any other way his prayer was not answered in Matthew 26:42-44.

John 12:23-28 reads "And Jesus answered them, saying, The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.

If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.

Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour.

Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again.

Also;

John 12:31-33. Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

This he said, signifying what death he should die.

Isaiah 53:7-12 spells it out!

Notice verse 10.

"Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

More to come.

Goodnight and God bless.

More on Israel!

Part 1.

I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you. Genesis 12:1-3.

From this promise you see that God did not choose a nation, he chose a man and built a nation from this man.

This doesn't make Israel more special; it makes God more special because he keeps his promises.

"And the LORD said unto Abram, after that Lot was separated from him, Lift up now thine eyes, and look from the place where thou art northward, and southward, and eastward, and westward: For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever.

Genesis 13:14-15.

God's faithfulness and promise did not stop with the nation of Israel.

His faithfulness to keep his Word is not just true for Israel, it is true for you and I.

"But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy" 1 Peter 2:9-10

When you think of the nation of Israel, and the very land where Israel sits, let it be a reminder that when God says something he will do it.

The Israelites were God's chosen people because they represent God's faithfulness to Abraham! and that he keeps his word!

He showed his faithfulness in Egypt and he's going to do it again!

"Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that they shall no more say, The LORD liveth, which brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt;

But, The LORD liveth, which brought up and which led the seed of the house of Israel out of the north country, and from all countries whither I had driven them; and they shall dwell in their own land"

Jeremiah 23:7-8.

God will not forsake Israel

Here's why: 36:19-28.

See Part 2.

Mathew 25:24-30

24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown (IT'S TRUE) , and gathering where thou hast not strawed(CORRECT):

25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.

26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not(AMONG GENTILE PEOPLES- Matthew 15:24-28), and gather where I have not strawed(among Gentile peoples):

27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.

28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.

29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath ... there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Hi Bennymkje.

Thanks for your thoughts.

No comment from me.

God bless.

Hey, Bennymkje.. greetings in Christ, wanted to mention, I am fully persuaded that the 1,000 year reign is in heaven. Rev 20:5 is a "clue".. " but the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished". During that time satan is marooned on the earth, "imprisoned",no one to tempt. Jer 4:23, "I beheld the earth, and lo, it was without form and void I am throwing this out there since you mentioned the 1,000 years in "mid air".. a "corroboration" as such.

Hi Bennymkje.

Thanks for responding, I can't engage right now I'm on the road, but I will take a look at your reply and give a response by this weekend .

Thanks and God bless.

"In that day"- Just one point

This 1000 year reign mentioned in 20:6 also places the millennial reign of Christ. "Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years." This does not place it on the earth but in mid-air. Where that places Israel is not for me to answer. What the Spirit has drawn a veil over, let no man try even.

Ze.13:1 "In that day"

Prophet Zechariah predicts a gleam of hope for Israel with this tag. Tag of unto this day refers to the church, the body of Christ.

Israel while it is consigned to the outer darkness what is the future. In Abraham God had blessed all families in the earth. (Ge.12:1) The position of Israel cast off as St Paul refers, "God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew."(Ro.11:2) We shall understand their position from the Book of Joshua. The delegation from Gibeon under false pretences wrested an oath of alliance as Jacob had from his purblind father Isaac. Only after three days it came to light. The Spirit sets Command number Three to denote the Son. "And it came to pass at the end of three days after they had made a league with them, that they heard that they were their neighbours, and that they dwelt among them." Because of this oath Israel could not deny them. So they were given a servile role. This trifle of an incident was mentioned for a specific reason. "Unto this day" establishes it to show all things for him and by him consist. " And Joshua made them that day hewers of wood and drawers of water for the congregation, and for the altar of the Lord, even unto this day, in the place which he should choose." (Josh.9:27)

This also highlights the manner the Spirit has set up signs. The numbers, the peculiar expressions, of which "unto this day" and "in that day" can be cited.

This now leads us to the second death. " But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection./ Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."(Re.20:5-6)

"And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death./And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." Blessed is first resurrection

Hi Spencer,

Ps.110:1-5 No more temple in the holy city of God. The Lamb is the glory of it. This places the outer darkness in contrast. " And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it./ And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof./ And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it." Zion New Jerusalem are for the saved. The Savior Lord made them kings and priests.(Re1:6).

Their priestly service is after the Order of Melchizedek." The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool./The Lord shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.

/ Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth./The Lord hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek."

When God says the earth is his footstool (Is.66:1) does it mean they are honoured for killing his Son?

Hi Spencer,

The quote "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." has significance because Jesus is not speaking condemnation in terms of himself. "For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:"( John 5:22). But Jesus warns of his Father who shall. "But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him." Luke 12:5). It is in this sense God warned Adam, "for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."(Ge.2:17)

What does this lead to? The second death can only be explained after the redemption of man's soul. (Re.20:14) According to the Luke quote The Father has the power to cast man to hell. Those who make up the body has escaped condemnation. They belong to the new heaven and new earth. Jewish nation is cast out into the outer darkness. "There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out."( Luke 13:28-29). When new earth inaugurated the earth is left for the nations. For this reason we read 'healing of the nations mentioned' (Re.22:1-2)

With the first Adam sin entered into the world so the nation that rejected Jesus, is already condemned in him. For those who believed the last Adam everlasting life. "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit./For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death." Without Spirit guiding you have have fallen into error probably taught by imposter church and their foolish shepherds. When God says Jerusalem is like a dish turned upside down it is just that.(2 Ki.21:13-15)

The outer darkness, the earth is His footstool. Is.66:1; Ps.110:1-5

Amen to you Brother .

Exodus 19:11 & 14-20

11And be ready against the third day:for the third day the Lord will come down in the sight of all the people upon mount Sinai.

14And Moses went down from the mount unto the people,and sanctified the people;and they washed their clothes.

15And he said unto the people,Be ready against the third day: come not at your wives.

16And it came to pass on the third day in the morning,that there were thunders and lightnings,and a thick cloud upon the mount,and the voice of the trumpet exceeding loud;so that all the people that was in the camp trembled.

17And Moses brought forth the people out of the camp to meet with GOD;and they stood at the nether part of the mount.

18And mount Sinai was altogether on a smoke, because the Lord descended upon it in fire: and the smoke thereof ascended as the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mount quaked greatly.

19And when the voice of the trumpet sounded long, and waxed louder and louder, Moses spake, and GOD answered him by a voice.

20And the Lord came down upon mount Sinai, on the top of the mount: and the Lord called Moses up to the top of the mount; and Moses went up.

John 2:18-20

18Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?

19Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

20Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?

Hebrews 1:1-2

1GOD, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2Hath in these last days (last two Days or last 2000 years)spoken unto us by His Son, whom He hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also He made the worlds;

The third Day arrived, the clothes must be washed,the Lord shall descend from heaven(from the 3rd heaven),the dead in Christ shall rise first- 1Thessalonians 4:16 and Revelation 19:7-8.

Matthew 25:6-Behold,the bridegroom cometh;go ye out to meet Him.

"Day of Regeneration" (3 of 3)

Coming back to the key test judging the twelve tribes must be seen as label to cover all those left behind from the church and from the Jews. In Re.7 we have the sealing of 144,000 from 12 tribes. These are adopted from the left out church.This throws light into the passage from Zechariah "Even the Lord that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?/Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel."(Ze.3:2-3). Joshua is Hebrew variant for Jesus signifies Christians stepping into the breach for Israel. Tribal considerations have become extinct in post exilic period. So the woman in the wilderness finding grace refers to it "And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child./ And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent." (Re.12:13-14).

The outer darkness where weeping and gnashing of teeth are a way of life, and the nations get a new government. "Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world?" (1 Co.6:2). This part is distinct from unto this day. "In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness." (Ze.13:1)

The tree of life is single and signifies "I am the life" So what does this expression 'on either side' mean? " In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations."(Re.22:2) Jesus Christ the same yesterday, today and forever. The river of time connect these nations. The pure water of life' proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.' cannot be hanging in mid-air. Is it not?

"Day of Regeneration" (2 of 3)

Israel proved they were reprobate silver. Of Israel enemies to Christ the prophet has to say, "Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!"(Is.5.20). Outer darkness therefore fits the description:" From the sole of the foot even unto the head there is no soundness in it; but wounds, and bruises, and putrifying sores: "(Is.1:6) While the earth has become new we have Zion established in mid-air so the 12 foundations of the apostles in precious stones carry on the covenant of God into the day of regeneration. "The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool./The Lord shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies."(Ps.110:1-2) What is the footstool? Isaiah inspired by the Holy Spirit tells us: " Thus saith the Lord, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool."(Is.66:1)

"Unto this day" is an expression where Zion must be founded from where the law shall go forth. The new earth explains where the nations that are saved shall walk under the light of the holy city of God. God has turned Jerusalem as a cup over to indicate 'no more service" Because they have done that which was evil in my sight, and have provoked me to anger, since the day their fathers came forth out of Egypt, even unto this day.

There is no more curse but we are faced with this expression, "healing of the nations." And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb./ In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. "(Re.22:1-2)

The set thrones of Zion refer to the house of prayer for all nations. (Ps.122:5)

indeed Jaz, the enemy has done a masterful job in causing the twisting of scriptures, as he always has. Much of it has come to pass already, from the rise of the "Holy Roman Empire", the crusades, Ottoman empire and rise of Islam.. etc. Let us "watch and be ready", as our Lord and savior Jesus taught us.

Day of Regeneration (1 of 3)

"And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel." (Matt.19:28)

This is a promise of the Son which must accepted as yea . "For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us." (2 Co.1: 20). Everyone who suffered loss shall receive hundredfold.. The verse following the key text includes everyone so service of saints hold both civil and ecclesiastical authority."And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life." The testimony of Jesus Christ revealed to John through his angel therefore includes this, "And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen."(Re.1:6)

So the Messianic prophesy addresses "thy people" and what does He promises his Son? "The Lord hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek".(Ps.110:1-4). The phrase 'forever' is a tag the Spirit has placed to indicate the Son as intended. The Lord's prayer ends with this phrase and Amen refers to the faithful and true witness, the Amen of divine promises. There is no temple in the new heaven and the earth. Instead it is on the holy mountain of God, Zion "for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people."(Is.56:7). Israel shall be cast out into the outer darkness, "There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out" ( Luke 13:28-29) By literalism of imposter churches the advocates of Israel would make the outer darkness seem lit. (2 Co.11:14-15)

Prayers of David: Introduction to types of prayers

Psalms in general written to SONGS. We seem to have lost the meaning of singing Psalms as was done up until the time of Christ.

I just learned recently of the Psalms sang around Passover that no doubt were linked to the King of Glory and His sacrificial atonement at Calvary. In these writings; of course we have praise; what are called "royal" psalms as well as Messianic ones where Christ was exalted to fulfill certain promises such as seen describing his death in Psalm 22. We also have what are called "impreccatory" Psalms which ask for God to take vengeance on enemies. As a general prayer against our enemies it is certainly fitting today. For specific individuals; we can cry out for the Lord to deal with people any way He deems fit. With the focus today on seeing people saved; this could make prayers for destruction of an individual something we should avoid at least directly. We should seek to see someone saved as long as they live; even if we ask for them to be imprisoned or punishment by the law exacted on them. The exception will be in the Tribulation with the lawless one; the man of sin who is destined for perdition as we get some inkling of the prayer of the martyred saints in; I believe chapter 7.

The idea of praising God whenever we initiate communication with Him certainly is made evident through Psalms in particular and we shouldn't miss that concept. Showing true adoration for the Lord certainly could incline Him to act; and of course if we aren't wholehearted perhaps the Lord holds back as well; that is particularly true when we withhold forgiveness from people. We see this especially from Matthew 6:14-16. Psalm 51 also discusses the humble and contrite spirit which I mention often. Since David was a man after God's own heart (first seen in 1 Samuel 13:14).

I may discover some more concepts. Since I'm doing a Psalms nursing home study I may begin there or in 1 Samuel.

Agape; RP

Prayers of David: Introduction

I haven't yet assimilated the massive scope of material related to David's prayers from Psalms; Chronicles and the book of Kings yet. I thought I would explore some major themes before delving into specific prayers. I previously got into descriptions of some of the types of Psalms. It is hard to dissect sometimes from what is prayer and what is other material. Here are some concepts

"Declarations". This is a topic I briefly may have mentioned some time ago in regard to truth and error. David would declare promises from God's covenants and then invoke Him to bring it to fruition. This theme was repeated by Daniel in the book bearing his name in regard to the return from exile after 70 years of captivity; by Moses in the desert and no doubt in other examples. Of course what it doesn't mean is making our own proclamations are trying to strongarm God to achieve our will even if we use scripture and twist it or violate the original meaning to do so. It doesn't "invoke" blessings either; perhaps if something is prayed with a pure heart that will result in God's favor leading to a blessing. God will not violate His own ordinances on sin; instead will bring a curse to those who claim covenant with Him and insist on retaining sins or praying in order to fulfill desires through sinful activity.

Promises. This is similar to a covenant declaration but usually based on an individual revelation from the Lord. It is too bad that Abraham didn't spend more time praying before trying to circumvent God's plan for offspring through Sarah. We can see this with God's assurances to Gideon as we discussed before which he needed further proof of before going to battle. Many times of course we can relate to David's prayers when it seemed he was about to be cornered for good and killed by Saul's army or Saul himself. God preserved David's life and answered these prayers; if for no other reason than to establish him as rightful king

Concluding remarks on priority levels of scripture

As we look through the less important facts and figures of the Bible on the surface or face value; we begin to see how it ties into the primary themes; applications; doctrines and ultimately the whole grand scheme God is "staging" throughout human history to the inevitable "finale" when He returns to set things straight. In a way it is like a screen play the way God's plans end up. The difference; of course is that it is very real; not a feigned comedy or tragedy such as the Greeks liked to perform with masks either smiling or frowning to elicit a response. We all are involved in a life and death struggle; with ourselves; and related to our physical lives and spiritual "essense" as it were. This; of course is just an analogy; and a poor one in that we shouldn't see God as the "puppet master" behind the scenes or a Wizard of Oz type madman behind the stage controlling the set. (We'll leave that performance to Satan himself who likes to control the set while he himself is chained into a controlled area).

Also; I will admit for myself that I often think of familiar surroundings and situations when reading the Bible; having only seen pictures and a few videos of the Holy land and obviously not living 2000 or more years ago. This may be what we would call a secondary theme; that of people living an agrarian life where one's ox or donkey was of great importance; where women were in general no better off than slaves; where horrible tortures were not really considered abnormal and where people travelled a LOT more slowly than today. There can be misinterpretations such as Nahum 2:4 in regards to some deeper meaning to chariots jostling as representing cars in urban settings today. Nonetheless; Solomon stated that there was "nothing new under the sun" ( Ecclesiastes 1:9). Sin and rebellion haven't gone away; they may have found new ways to more quickly satisfy these carnal desires but are always present.

Concluding thoughts for now on the discussion of determining priority of importance of particular scriptures.

God; in His infinite wisdom created us all in different ways whether in our original fallen nature or after we are "born again".

We are all interdependent; so there needs to be interaction along with our life spent in solitude with the Lord devoting time to prayer; study of the Word and just listening to God. Without purposely trying to make things even more confusing; I would propose that the Word is structured with a lot of seemingly unimportant details; genealogies and stories that in time help us to piece together the whole picture of God's Providence and hence bring out in the Word and ultimately in our own lives things which become part of us as we meditate on the Lord day and night ( Joshua 1:8). A wise guide will likely lead a new convert to the Gospels; then commonly to Paul's Epistles before getting into the Old Testament in detail (one exception being the Creation and fall of man in the start of Genesis). This is good advice for a nonbeliever but we should not be constrained to this plan for someone; for instance truly seeking out God's truths in places like Revelation or perhaps some of the Old Testament prophets. In fact for a person of Jewish heritage it is probably best as several evangelists do in Israel today (Zev Porat as one example) to go directly to the Old Testament first (especially the taboo passage in Isaiah 53.)

These days; of course we can't assume any of the doctrines which a couple generations ago were never or hardly ever questioned are still held. These include but not necessarily limited to the inerrancy of God; the physical reality of an eternal heaven and hell; God's promises to national Israel still being valid today; the Millennial reign; or PreMillennial Pretribulation rapture. Admittedly these last three subjects were throughout much of the Reformed era and in Catholic traditions before that not believed.

Yes Brother , historical context is massively important . Isaiah chapter 14 is a prime example of this importance . A fairy tale has sprung up from this chapter and that can potentially be very dangerous . I have recently come to be convinced in my own heart and mind , quite suddenly and from no where , after reading the Bible for many years and desperately studying in particular the book of Revelation , that the vast majority of it has already happened . We are just waiting for the fulfillment of the last three or four chapters . I have been driving myself crazy trying to understand every last verse and put the pieces together but every time I would take one step forward and two back ! A couple of months ago while reading it (again) and torturing myself , peace suddenly descended upon me out of no where and my heart told me : it's all in the past , there's just the end to come . I've not had any doubts about it for one second , I no longer stress myself out about it , reading as many different explanations as I can find , dissecting each one and finding bits of truth in this one but other bits in that one etc . I cannot explain the relief and peace that came over me and is still with me , after almost thirty years of Bible reading I'm 100 per cent confident at assured without any doubt that the vast majority of the book of Revelation is past . We are in the very last days and just waiting for our Redeemer to return to earth to judge the nations and reward accordingly . I'm sure there are many who will disagree with me and that is their perogative , but they shall be wasting their time and energy trying to convince me otherwise . This peace regarding the book of Revelation is palpable . I feel it deep within me and because of it , I am at peace with that particular book . For the first time in thirty years ! Thanks be to God .

Further discussion on definitions for secondary themes; applications and doctrines.

Besides UNIVERSAL rules with examples such as I posted in my last message about marriage regulations; murder would also be something which demands justice as a universal law.

What I will call CASE SPECIFIC tenants are not going to determine whether we are truly saved or not but are primarily appropriate for confessing believers. Sin is sin; but we shouldn't expect people to stop cussing; drinking; gambling or doing other vices that aren't at least strictly forbidden in scripture. Also things which are impossible become possible such as not loving the world or anything in it ( 1 John 2:15). These issues also could determine the lifespan of an individual and be considered more in the category of general wisdom. Someone who is habitually overeating is doing more harm to their bodies (in general) because of what is in reality a soul issue; whereas someone sleeping around is primarily hurting their soul. In either case physical health concerns can develop simply living in a perishable vessel.

Perhaps the classification here could be something that is associated with but not directly linked to a primary doctrine. Showing hospitality such as described in Hebrews 13:2 ties into the concept of loving God (1st commandment0 and loving your neighbor as yourself. Since it would be more difficult for a homeless man to be able to offer much in the way of hospitality it is somewhat case specific.

The third category may be something that is POSSIBLY related to a primary tenant but can't be strongly proven. Such could be a person who holds to a certain diet mentioned as ceremonially clean in the Old Testament. One could argue this is to honor the "Temple" where the Spirit now resides ( 1 Cor. 6:19-20). A more controversial issue is the day of worship. We could make an argument for the original day of rest or the first day of the week but we must remember Collossians 2:16!

In considering what I am calling "secondary" themes and applications in scripture; some definitions would probably be helpful.

We probably need to have a whole subdivision of the term "secondary" as nothing in the inspired Word of God is for naught.

The simple approach would be to have "tertiary" issues included for things such as eschatology; ceremonial laws and scientific validity of various health regulations; lists of names which aren't directly in the genealogy of Christ; etc. But of course; when we do this we add to the problem of correctly classifying something as one or another without considering the "gray areas" in between.

Perhaps secondary themes are easier to define. We could point out any facts in the Bible as to family situations; names and numbers of offspring; locations where certain events with associated details are mentioned and all the varieties of personalities with the characters mentioned throughout the entire 1500 year or so timespan of the writings; which involve about 4000 years of human history. Again; we have the issue of a theme being a lesson to further draw out the truths in the laws of God; hence we indirectly use these examples to apply to our lives; primarily to avoid sins and similar consequences in our own lives and hopefully find an example or two we can emulate and relate to.

In terms of application let's start to divide this way.

SECONDARY but attached to a primary application or doctrine. This would be repentance and saving faith LEADING to baptism as one example. These would also be directly meant and clearly understood as a moral law. I would further divide this into a universal law (such as the covenant involved in marriage which I consider of primary importance for that reason); and how we respond depending on our individual situation (married or unmarried). Personally I would argue for illegitimate divorce and remarriage as a primary issue but am aware many would disagree.

Richard,

oops accidentally pushed sent instead.

To continue

Your posts challenge me to seriously consider the topic you present, to have my thinking be guided by the Holy Spirit, and to respond in ways that may help others. Like you, I don't "preplan" my responses to posts. I ust ask the Spirit to give me the best words and to guide my writing to make sense, be accurate, and to cause others to think more deeply on the revelation of God in Scriptures. Like you, I just let my thoughts flow into the posts as prompted by the Spirit.

I urge you to keep posting. You are doing well. If the Spirit prompts you to post and to post often, then do so! We do not need to be super eloquent, nor try to be anyone other than who we are in humility and appreciation for how God has made us and formed our thinking. We are iron sharpening iron, and that is so good for us. You be you, and I will be me , and together we build each other up in the faith once and for all passed down by the saints. We are all blessed by these saints who obediently allowed the Holy Spirit to inspire their writing of Scripture and their teaching and preaching as the Church was planted all over the Mediterranean world of their time and wherever the Lord sent them, as Thomas was sent to India and others were sent to northern Africa.

Be blessed today. It is the day that the Lord has made. Rejoice and be glad in it!

Going to garden today with my family. Have to repot perennials. So that means mixing up more potting soil and hopefully these ones will begin to thrive once again. I get a lot of joy from growing plants and flowers, digging in the dirt, and being outside. Simple joys, I guess, but rewarding.

Oh, Richard you are doing well in your postings. They make me think about the topic and let the Spirit bring to mind Scriptures that are relevant to what you are posting. They challenge me to

Rainwalker

As you and ALL know, the prophecy - Daniel 7:7-8- is revealing about the fourth Empire- the dreadful and terrible, and strong Roman Empire- diverse from the Greek, Persian and Babylonian kingdoms that were before it. As you and all know, the Roman Empire was specifically and genuinely a GENTILIC Empire, but there was also a completely alien being, or nation, in the Gentile Roman Empire: It was ISRAEL, descendants of Abraham. For this reason the prophecy reveals Israel as an APPENDIX linked to the Roman Empire as 10 other independent powers, DESCENDANTES OF ABRAHAM, ISAAC and JACOB, prophetically represented by 10 horns, which in turn represents the 10 toes of the statue, part of iron, and part of clay- Daniel 2:42. In Daniel 2 , Israel, the clay- Isaiah 64:8-, is represented by 10 toes of the feet of the Nebuchadnezzar's estatue.

The roots of the Gentile Beast of sea, the Papacy, a religious MONSTER having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns 10 crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy, the main partner of the red Dragon- Revelation 12:3-4 & 9, yeah, the roots of the Gentile Beast of sea-the Papacy, are described in Revelation 13:2. In this current decade must be elected the last Pope, the next, and to this last Pope the dragon- Revelation 13:11-, will give him his Power, and his Throne(in JERUSALEM), and great Authority. Both as a RELIGIOUS AND SATANIC MONSTER-Catholicism and Judaism-iron and clay-, both will establish an Universal and religious kingdom- Daniel 2:41-44 combined with Luke 21:24 and Revelation 11:2. Take a look.

There will be a terrible spiritual War in the Earth from now on- Revelation 16:13-15.

GET READY

Revelation 21:8 - The fearful(COWARDS), and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Amen Brother Chris!

John 3:18 belongs to Jews Gentiles and the Church.

"He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

God bless you!

Happy Mothers day to all you Mothers on this site.

May the Lord bless you this day and many more!

Hey Oseas, historical context is of upmost importance in this section. The fourth beast was the Roman Empire, while the "little horn" that came from among it was the rise of the office of the papacy. Daniel was shown this "succession of empires" using these symbols, whereas king Neb was shown the succession in the form of the statue back in ch 2.

Jo.1:1-In the beginning was the Word,the Word was with GOD,the Word was GOD.

The Word of GOD is from everlasting to everlasting,the Word is GOD, GOD Himself,self-executing.

Job 22:

15Hast thou marked the old way(century/es before)which wicked men have trodden?

16Which were cut down out of time,whose foundation was overflown with a FLOOD:

17Which said unto GOD,Depart from us:and what can the Almighty do for them?

18Yet He filled their houses with good things:but the counsel of the wicked is far from me.

19The righteous see it, and are glad: and the innocent laugh them to scorn.

20Whereas our substance is not cut down,but the remnant of them the fire consumeth.

21Acquaint now thyself with Him,and be at peace:thereby good shall come unto thee.

22Receive,I pray thee,the law from his mouth(GOD's Word),and lay up his words in thine heart.

23If thou return to the Almighty,thou shalt be built up,thou shalt put away iniquity far from thy tabernacles.

24Then shalt thou lay up gold as dust( Genesis 2:10-11 ),and the gold of Ophir as the stones of the brooks.

25Yea,the Almighty shall be thy defence,and thou shalt have plenty of silver.

26For then shalt thou have thy delight in the Almighty,and shalt lift up thy face unto God.

27Thou shalt make thy prayer unto him,and he shall hear thee,and thou shalt pay thy vows.

28Thou shalt also decree a thing,and it shall be established unto thee:and the light shall shine upon thy ways

29When men are cast down,then thou shalt say,There is lifting up; and he shall save the humble person

30He shall deliver the island of the innocent:and it is delivered by the pureness of thine hands.

Eze.14

13Son of man,when the land sinneth against me by committing a trespass,then will I stretch out mine hand upon it,and will break the staff of the bread thereof,and will send famine upon it,and I will destroy man and beast forth of it

14Though these three men Noah,Daniel,and Job were among them, they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousnes