Bible Discussion Replies PAGE 181

Chap 19 A Standard lifted up & an Ensign unto all Nations.

Concerning mans state in the first Adam before conversion, and his state after conversion, and what conversion is.

Man's state in the first Adam in transgression, is a state of perfect enmity against God, and death reigns in every man, and he is possessed with blindness and ignorance, and unbelief, and is wholly imperfect to receive the things of Gods Kingdom, or to act any thing for God acceptable to him; man in that state is wholly dead to God, and insensible of the presence, and power, and life of his Creator, for he is drove from God, and is not led by him, he hath no power to perform any good in the sight of God, but is possessed with evil, and led into all evil continually; he is free from righteousness, and free to all evil, being the servant of the Devil, and subject to him, and overcome of him every moment, and is led by him to transgresses against the Lord;

Chap 19 cont,,,

against the Lord; his heart is unclean, and out of it proceeds continually uncleanness in all manner of words, thoughts, and actions, which flows out of the corrupt fountain, which grieves and vexes the Lord and his Spirit, who is dishonored daily by man through his abuse of Gods creatures, who is a devourer and destroyer of them, and not a preserver as he ought to be, who abuses' them upon his lust, and not to the glory of the Lord; he loves the creature and worships the creature, and is gone a whoring after the creatures, and hath forgotten God that made him and all things, and hath lost his own dominion wherein he was set in his Creation, and his state in his transgression is cursed of God, and without the peace of God, it being in the enmity against him; and in all things he is wholly unprofitable to his Maker, and only profitable to himself and to the Devil, and this in short is the state of every man in transgression before conversion; but his state after conversion is a state more blessed, for man is changed, and renewed, and translated by the power of the Lord, through the working of the eternal Spirit through conversion, his mind is changed, and his heart is renewed, the old is done away, and a new heart is given, and all things are become new, even every word and work, and every intent and purpose of his mind, is converted into another end, and guided by another spirit than before his conversion; and man is again returned to God, into the sense and feeling of his Maker, and into covenant with him where he is blessed, and all things to him; for the reconciliation is made with God, and the evil is judged and condemned, and sin is taken away and blotted out, and not remembered: for man is become servant unto God, and only serves him in all things, and not himself or any other creature in any thing, for he hath received power to become sons to God, and hath received power over the Devil and his

Chap 19 cont,,,

sight, and the new man is brought forth, and the creating in Christ Jesus unto good works is known, and the birth, which is heir of Gods Kingdom is witnessed, and unto this man is the Lord become an everlasting light and a sure hiding place, for he is not the servant of sin but of righteousness, nor an offence to God in any of his works, but for his names sake is well pleased with him; he is his teacher in all the ways of peace, he is his helmet, and his shield, and his hope of salvation, and his Shephard to feed him and preserve him at all times; though he may be tempted, yet he is not overcome, for God is his strength, though he may be tried, yet not forsaken of the Lord; though he may be cast into the fire it is not to consume him, for the Lord is with him; all things he receives as from the hand of God, & all creatures he enjoys in the Covenant with God, and peace is in all his ways, for it is the Lord that works in him both to will and to do of his own good pleasure; and this is the state of the new man brought forth in conversion, which is a turning of the creature from the power of Satan (which rules in every man before conversion), to the power of God which is the ruler of every man that is truly converted; and this is the truth as it is in Jesus, which I have received from God, he that can receive it let him, and if any have an ear let him hear what the Spirit saithe; this conversion of the creature is wrought by the Spirit of God through the Ministry sent of him, and even for this cause have we received the Ministry of God, through the Holy Ghost, that we might publish these things abroad, that all people may come to the knowledge of them, and may taste, and handle, and feel of the same Word of life in themselves, which will reveal the knowledge of these things to them that they may have fellowship with us, and truly our fellowship is with the Father and with the Son.

Chap 19 cont,,

And now be it known to all the world, and to all people in it, that the Lord hath raised up a people and brought forth a seed, to bear witness of his Name, and of his dominion, and power in all the earth, and of these truths with many more, which are but one in Christ Jesus, hath God given us the perfect knowledge of, even wrought them in us, and revealed them to us by the eternal Spirit, and as that same Spirit doth, and shall move us, do we and shall we bear witness of these truths unto all people upon earth whatsoever, both by doctrine and conversation, holding forth the testimony unto others which we have received of God, that Christ may be exalted, and his Kingdom set up in the world, and in comparison of this, that we may serve God in our generation, by bearing witness of these things, which we have heard and seen; nothing of this world, our liberty, our life, nor any other thing whatsoever, is not dear unto us; yea, even for this cause, that the Name of the Lord may be testified of, do we give up our selves continually to suffer all manner of evil in words or works; and we love not our lives unto death, that truth and righteousness may be exalted, and this is the cause wherefore we pass through many dangers on every hand, and are in perils often, and we are not, nor cannot be afraid of the face of any man, even that the Lord alone may be exalted, whose Name, and Honor, and Truth is more dear unto us than any other thing; and for it have we forsaken all, and counted it as nothing in comparison of the knowledge of Christ, and his truth herein declared and witnessed to the whole world to whom it shall come, and the light of Christ in every one shall give testimony to it unto which I do only commend my self and these truths to be witnessed.

Chap 19 cont,,

And know ye assuredly that God, who is just and righteous in all his ways', it is he that sets the way of life and the way of death before every man, and he hath appeared in this generation, and he hath caused his voice to be heard in the earth, and he hath set the way of death and the way of life before you, and all that perish it is through unbelief; and because they do despise the way which God hath prepared, who hath prepared a way for life and salvation unto all people, that all may come to life and salvation, and may not perish, and he hath not shut out any creature before he was brought forth into the world, but giveth to every one that cometh into the world a day of visitation and a time of repentance and returning, that healing may be received from the Lord, who is the restorer of lost man, and there is not another; so that if man perish, it is of himself, and not of God, who hath so loved mankind, that he hath given his Son, his own wisdom and his power into the world, that all that doth receive him (Christ Jesus) may have everlasting life, and they that receive him not, they perish because of unbelief, whereby they are hardened for destruction, and unto such our Gospel, the Gospel of God is hid, whose eye is blinded by the god of this world, that they cannot see the things which be eternal, nor believe in him from whence life comes, and such are stumbling at Christ the foundation, and therefore shall be broken, and must not inherit the kingdom of God, and unto such, though they be wise in the kingdom of this world, are we become fools for Christ sake, and our testimony cannot be received by them, nor approved of them, even them that seek after a sign, and them that seek after wisdom, to such we are not known, nor can our testimony be acceptable to them which is not with enticing words of mans wisdom, but in the demonstration of God Spirit, and in simplicity of truth, which is of great price with the Lord,

Chap 19 cont,,,

even above knowledge and all wisdom, which is of this world which comes to nothing, but the Lord will confound that and bring it to nothing, for the world by its wisdom doth not know God, neither can it receive the things of God, but is foolishness in the sight of God, and the wisdom of the world must be offended in him, and in the testimony which is given of him, and the Princes of this world, and the wise men must stumble and fall, the powers of the earth must be offended at him, that they may be confounded and brought to naught, all the heathen shall rage, and the people shall imagine a vain thing: but what of all this, the testimony of the Lord is true which he hath given us to bear of his Name, and of it we are not ashamed before the face of the whole world, and we are armed to suffer for it, and not only to subscribe to the truth of it with our hand, or to declare of it with our tongue and pen, but also if we be called to it, may seal it with our blood: Wherefore this is sent among you all, Rulers, Teachers and people in all the world; this is sent among: you as to give you the certain knowledge of what we hold and bear witness to, which is received of us from God, and born witnesses of to you by his Spirit, even those things with many others which we have not received from man but from God, are we purposed in the Lord to declare abroad, and he hath put it into our hearts to fulfill his will herein; for he hath spoken, who can but prophesy, and he hath given the word, and many are they that publish it in faithfulness against the kingdom of the man of sin, which hath long been exalted in the earth over the seed of God, which the Lord is now a gathering and establishing his Covenant with, an Jerusalem that hath long lain waste, shall be made the praise of the whole earth, and the Gentiles which hath polluted her shall be cast out, and the Saints shall rejoice over all their enemies.

Chap 19 cont,,

And know you assuredly from us, who know the Lord, that God is doing great things in the earth, he is begun to work and his arm shall bring it to pass, he will overturn and overturn, till he come to reign whose right it is, who will change times and things, even that which cannot be believed, though a man declare it unto you, is the Lord bringing to pass; the eye shall blesse that sees it, and the heart shall praise that can understand, and behold the Lord comes quickly, and they are blessed that waits for him, whose reward is with him, and his glorious work is before him to be wrought by his own hand without the help of any other; who needs not the help of man, and yet that man that doth oppose him, shall be overthrown, confounded and destroyed, And again: all the Kings, Princes, Rulers, and People whatsoever, know ye assuredly that we are not enemies against, but friends unto all Civil Government, and to all just and righteous orders and decrees, and wholesome Law and Customs of any Common-wealth, and no way are we destructive to, or destroyers of the Peace, and welfare, and wholesome Laws (which is according to God) of any Nation whatsoever. But are preservers of the peace of all people, and waits in patience for the establishment of justice and true judgement, and that righteousness may spring forth, and the Government of all Nations may be according to the Law of God. Neither are we such who makes void the just Government of any Nation or City; neither are we such who through evil purposes, plotted, or conspired, or contrives evil in our hearts against any Governors or Government whatsoever; but wishes peace and truth, and the fear of the Lord unto all men and Nations, and desires not the overthrow or evil to any people, or their Government: but is subject to just Government every

Chap 19 cont,,

where by obedience to it, and subject to evil Government by suffering in patience under it; so that righteousness alone we wait to see set up through the world, and for that cause suffereth patiently under our enemies, not seeking revenge against them, nor envying the persons of any; but pities our enemies, and desires their repentance rather than their destruction: Yet this we give all to know, that the Lord will be avenged on all them who hates the way of righteousness, and all that opposes the Lord and his way, and despises his truth which he hath revealed, they shall be confounded and broken to pieces, and shall confess to the Lord, and his way, and his truth in the day of their destruction.

Again, let all the earth know, that against all unrighteousness, injustice, oppression, whoredom, murder and drunkenness', and all sin whatsoever, we do declare and acknowledge our selves to be enemies against all sin, and they that commit it, and we cannot hide sin and iniquity in any, but gives our testimony against it, and against all that live in it whatsoever, without respect to men or places, and cannot flatter any man in his transgressions, but saithe, that lying, swearing, drunkenness, covetousness, injustice, dissimulation, hypocrisies, murder, and envy, lust of the flesh, pride and wantonness, and all the works of the flesh whatsoever, are contrary to God, and of the devil, and they that lives in them, and brings them forth, are the servants of the devil, and must not inherit that kingdom of God, who brings forth those works which grieves the Spirit of God, and vexes his righteous soul, and this is that Government only which is the Government of sin and death, which we declare our selves enemies to, which is of the devil and not of God; and this is that Government which we testifies against, and wars against by the sword of the Spirit of God, and by his power, and not

Chap 19 cont,,,

by the carnal weapons or subtle conspiracies', or violent insurrections; for this way, and by this means shall not the Government of Satan be overthrown, or the kingdom of Christ ever exalted.

Again, let all the world know, that we are not such as disannuls or makes void the Covenant and bond of Relations, or teach any so to do, or give any example by our practice to any subjects to be rebellious to their Governors, or children to be disobedient to their Parents, or that servants be undutiful to their Masters. But on the contrary, doth say and affirm it, that it is the duty of Subjects to be obedient and subject in the Lord to their Rulers and Governors, whether Kings, Dukes or others, who have rule over them; and also that Children should be obedient to their Parents; and Servants to be dutiful and subject to their Masters in the Lord in all things, and that Husbands and Wives live in all unity and peace in the Lord: Provided only, where Rulers, Parents, or Masters, or Husbands required of their Subjects, Children or Servants or any other whatsoever, requiring of their relations that which is unjust and contrary to God and his righteous law; in such a case we say, that Subjects, Children, Servants, and all other whatsoever are free, and we say, where man requires any thing contrary to God, and God requires another thing contrary to man, the obedience to God is rather to be chosen, and the obedience to all men is to be denied; and this is our judgement which is according to truth, and is the mind of God concerning subjection and obedience, and the duty of Relations one to another.

And lastly, know ye assuredly that we do not hold and maintain any thing by conversation or doctrine, but the very same truth in word and practice, as all our fore-Fathers did, but bears witness of the same salvation by the same Christ as they did, and are not setters forth of

Chap 19 cont,,,

strange gods, for no other God is worshipped by us than he, which Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and all the rest of the servants of the Lord in every generation worshipped, served and obeyed, neither are we such as doth maintain Heresies, Error, or Idolatry, or the worship of any strange god, though hereof we are accused falsely, yet against us cannot it be proved truly, and this we give the whole world to know, that no other end, or purpose, or design is in our hearts, but only to fulfil the will of God in all things as it is to us made manifest. Even this is the resolution of our hearts, and the full purpose of our minds. to give testimony through the world as we are moved, both by writing and declaring of these Truths which to us is known from the Lord, that truth and righteousness may come to reign, and this may we do as the Lord provides way for us, nor fearing the face of any man, nor being afraid of the threatening of high looks, and that we may finish the testimony given us of God, our life nor any other thing is dear unto us, and all ye people every where, for your sake is this written to come abroad amongst you, to give you warning and true information of the work of the Lord, and what he is about to do, that you may hear and understand, and may receive the knowledge of those things which belong to your peace, and may be saved with an eternal salvation, or otherwise through this are you wholly left without excuse if you perish: And unto this was I pressed in spirit for many days, that all the world may be satisfied, what we are, and what we hold, and what the purpose of the Lord is; and I whom God hath warned, do warn all people upon the face of the earth, that you prepare, prepare to meet the Lord, for his coming and his day is nigh at hand, and his judgements shall be revealed in the Earth, and all flesh shall tremble before him, and all the inhabitants of the world shall be confounded at his presence; The

Chap 19 continues,,,

proud shall be abased, and the poor shall be exalted; the high and lofty shall be brought down, and the meek and upright shall be set up; Truth shall reign as King, and deceit shall utterly be confounded; they that now suffer all manner of evil for the Name of Jesus, shall possess everlasting freedom, and the dominion shall be in their hands, and they that now cause the just to suffer, shall go into endless captivity, the seed of God shall spring forth and flourish, but the seed of evil-doers shall never be renowned: And betwixt these two seeds is an enmity put, and they can never be reconciled, each seed hath his fruit, the one is cursed and the other is blessed, and each seed is known by its fruit, and must receive from the Lord accordingly.

And this is the testimony of the servants of the Lord, and the witness which they give unto all the world of those things which we have handled, tasted, heard, seen and felt; blessed are all they that can receive it.

We are known to God in the Spirit, and one to another in his life, and are known in the world by the name of Quakers, cast upon us through the derision of the heathen.

But Quaking and trembling at the Word of the Lord; by the servants of the Lord, we do own, when the power of God reaches to the witness of God in the creature, which brings condemnation upon all high looks, and upon the lofty nature, which causes the earthly part to tremble, we do own and many of us do witness, the Quaking and Trembling which is by the operation of the Spirit of God, and the several operations by the one Spirit we own: which brings down proud flesh, whose honor God will lay in the dust, and bring it to everlasting contempt, and when this comes to pass, quaking shall not be a strange thing, nor the Name reproached as it is at this day by the proud spirits of men, who knows not the work of the Lord, nor the operation of his Spirit.

Chapter 19 continues,,,,,,

Moreover and besides all this, let all the world know, that our conversation, life and practice is one and the same with what we hold forth in words, and that we give as large a testimony of God amongst us by pure conversation as doctrine, and doth deny them who gives testimony in words only, and answers not in their conversation, for that is hypocrisies, and our souls loath it, and it is abomination in the sight of the Lord, where he is profess in words, and not walked to in purity and righteousness of life, for righteousness being brought forth in the heart, works of righteousness will spring forth in the world, and where righteousness springs not forth in the world, and the fruits of the knowledge of God, it shews that righteousness is not in the heart, and that God is not known.

Also concerning our Government, it is according to Christ, whom we own to be head amongst us, and no other head we have or do bow unto, and we are but members of his body, joined to him through the Spirit as head over us all, and the greatest of us is but a member of Christ, who is the head alone, and we have not another, neither can we be subject to any other Government but his, or to obey any Government but what is justly according to his, whose Government must be set up in the earth, and for it we wait, and labors, and travels, and counts nothing hard, but all things are easy to us for this prize which is before us, even the Government of Christ to be set up, and all Governments of men establish according to it, and this is our testimony which we give forth in words and practice, and if it be required can seal it with our blood.

And this is written for no other end, but that you may be certainly informed what we are, and what we hold, and what the Lord hath done, and what he is about to do in all the earth, who is arisen, and hath said, Ah! I will ease Me of my Adversaries.

Finished

Exactly ! Honestly , I think this belief in the immortal soul , which in effect , makes God a liar when He says : the soul that sinneth it shall die ,and the wages of sin is death , it comes from our fear of death . The thought that we can cease to exist is so terrifying to so many people and the idea that we all live on in some way is such a comfort to us , especially when we loose a loved one , that many people can't bear the thought that life ends . This is where faith comes in , the faith of Abraham when he would have willingly offered Isaac , even though he had been promised many blessings through Isaac , Abraham believed in the ressurection . So must we , we can't be ressurected from life to life , we are ressurected from death to life . Why this is so unpalatable to so many is beyond me . God is able to do this ! And He will ! If we die and then go to heaven or hell , how are we dead ? We are not ,we are living in heaven or living in hell . When do we die ? We must die in order to be ressurected . May God bless us all and keep us all close to Him , through Christ His Son .

The Tribulation: General overview of 3 sets of Judgments

There is a clear designation of 3 sets of judgments of 7 individual items in the Tribulation (Seal; Trumpet and Bowl).

Christ Himself opens the 7 SEALS of the book (unnamed). It would austensively contain the trumpet and bowl judgments; with a mysterious scroll eaten by John in Rev. 10:10 similar to the one in Ezekiel 3:3. I will try to study that at some point but it does say it is a mystery in general. We would probably be correct in stating the "birth pangs" of the Tribulation are going on with these seal judgments ( Matt. 24:8 also interestingly shown in Psalm 48:6:7.)

The next group of judgments are generally setting the stage for Antichrist to rise by judging one third parts of the earth; and sea and sun as well as killing one third of men ( Rev. 8:7-9; 12: Rev. 9:15). This is likely highly symbolic of the one third of the heavenly host falling with Satan and probably cast to earth at the time of Revelation 12:4; cross reference Daniel 8:10). This would show the destruction of those in heavenly places; the invisible spritual realm that has affected the course of men since the dawn of man (see Isaiah 24:21-22).

The last section completes the destruction of earth below as seen in Isaiah 24:22). This shows the gleaning of the grape harvest as it were; drawing men in for the final battle by supernatural means as seen in Revelation 19 and also Psalm 2.

As I have mentioned before there is no prayers of the saints appearing as incense in heaven; therefore no tarrying in the inner court with intercession as seen in Revelation 15:8. These verses and the responses of the wicked as compared to the sixth seal show the descent from fear to rebellion which the mark of the Beast seals their fate. There is nothing but contempt toward God; therefore it serves as a warning as to how men will react once IN hell (no desire to serve or worship their Creator).

Compare this to the VICTORY of the saints.

Richard

The words of the LORD are pure words. Every word of God is pure. EVERY WORD IS PURE!

You say the rapture or Resurrection event is at or near the first seal. Can you please provide the verses that prove that to be true?

It seems that pre-tribulation rapture believers are reading things into Scripture that are not clearly written in Scripture. God is not the author of confusion.

The final revival you mentioned as being ( Rev 7:9) comes during great tribulation, ( Rev 7:14) shows us that.

All who believe in Jesus Christ will have everlasting life, when will this everlasting life start? At the return of Jesus Christ in the clouds for His true Believers ( 1 Thess 4:16-17)

( Jn 3:36) Tells us believers in the Son hath everlasting life, and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on him.

God's wrath is poured out on ALL non-believers who will be left on the earth, they are also called the children of disobedience in ( Eph 5:6) and ( Col 3:6)

Seeing the great tribulation and the wrath of God as the same time period only causes confusion. They are not the same!

( Mt 24:29-31) Tells us the Son of man comes in the clouds to gather together His elect, this event is the rapture. And it clearly happens after the tribulation.

I do not mean to offend Richard but the Truth matters as we are living the time of the Lastdays now.

The belief that we will be taken out before the tribulation period will not allow us to be prepared for the tough times of deception and of testing that are sure to come in the near future. That belief will also cause many to be deceived by the antichrist when he comes disguised as Jesus Christ sitting in the temple of God shewing himself that he is God. ( 2 Thess 2:3-4) Many will fall away! There will be great deception during this time period ( 2 Cor 11:14)

The great day of the LORD is the return of Jesus Christ ( Zephaniah 1:14-18) That day is a day of wrath for non-believers.

Blessings to you.

Hi Jema,

I agree with you, and you are not alone. My understanding, the soul is a living being human or animal. We see this first in Genesis 1:20 the word creature is the Hebrew word nephesh meaning a soul, living being, life, self, person, desire, passion, appetite, and emotion. Genesis 2:7 By the breath of life Adam became a living soul, not given a soul.

The breath of life is our spirit given to us by God for when this breath leaves us, we are a dead soul, asleep. This breath, our spirit is what goes back to God, every man or woman regardless of faith, Ecclesiastes 12:7. In Scripture the dead are in the grave, not in heaven or hell and it is called sleep, Deuteronomy 31:16 Job 17:13-16 and many more.

We have an earnest of the Spirit a downpayment, we are sealed, so, we are sealed until when? Until redemption, 2 Corinthians 1:21-22 Ephesians 4:30 1 Corinthians 15:51-55, resurrection for those elects, chosen, and faithful we see in Rev 17:14 and Rev. 20:4-6. This is when we will be absent from this mortal body and be with the Lord.

The soul is who we are, and our conscience is the recorder of our life that is in the books that are open for the rest of the dead not in the first resurrection, Rev. 20:11-15, The ones written in the book of life will receive their glorified bodies and the rest will be cast into the lake of fire.



My understanding from my studies is the immortal soul and the meaning of death being a separation of the soul from the body does not come from scripture it comes from the Greek philosophers Socrates, 400 BC, Plato, and Aristotle. Later Augustine 354-430 AD adopted it, teaching death meant the destruction of the body, but the conscious soul would continue to live in either a blissful state with God or an agonizing state of separation from God.

Just a little, if the soul, that is who we are is immortal, that means death does not exist.

God bless,

RLW

Tribulation: Starting from the beginning

My earlier segment started discussion on the concept of the state of a soul determining the experience of the time in the Tribulation. Thus; the sufferings that the 144,000 go through (possibly allegorically stated in Matthew 25:36-40) would be still better than that of the unregenerate. They are protected from the judgments during much of the trumpet judgments because of the seal of God ( Rev. 7:3); although subject to imprisonment; famine and thirst. They will be given endurance whether living or dying (can't clearly tell) until they appear before God ( Rev. 7:16). The rest of the world; however by the sixth seal will be terrified ( Rev. 6:12-17). Contrast this with the state of the two prophets in Rev. 11:1-14. Death is swift and there is no fear of what comes thereafter for the saved; for the lost there is of course no peace ( Isaiah 57:21).

I am not attempting to minimize the appalling conditions which come by the unsealing of the seals by Jesus Himself for anyone; but am stating that our spiritual condition determines if we are in terror of God; or are a centerpiece of displaying His glory despite going through the fire at the time of Jacob's sorrow (see Jeremiah 30:7 and surrounding verses for that description).

Now; going back to the Rapture and Resurrection event at or near the first seal event. Matthew 25:1 COULD be thought of as representing those who are either not walking in the Spirit or unsaved. A key verse is at the end in verse 12. Does it mean Christ doesn't KNOW us intimately (know you not) mean the same thing as Matt. 7:21-23 where He NEVER knew us; or could it signify a church like the Ephesians who forget their first love ( Rev. 2:4)? Other interpretations exist-we will leave it there.

No matter who misses the Rapture and is left behind it seems clear is too late to be part of the Bride of Christ ( Eph. 5:27). Nonetheless there will be the final revival in that time ( Rev. 7:9).

I feel the same ! Why can I see this but others don't ! The Gospel is so simple and clear to me . I get frustrated and sometimes this leads me to say things in not the best way

:( . The more mystery people try to attach to it , the more suspicious I become . God doesn't contradict Himself . I shall try to look at those things you suggested but I only have internet on my phone , thanks , stay strong in the Truth .

Jema thank you for your comment. I honestly don't see how any Christian could not see this is the truth by these verses and the meaning of the word dividing. Jema, I recently found a site that shows truly amazing facts about the King James Bible being the Inspired, pure, preserved Word of God. It shows many, many things that only God could have done. This site clearly shows the KJB is God breathed, and infallible in so many different ways. If you, or anybody who reads this want to see this just google ("Truth is Christ") and watch some of his videos.

You will be amazed!

Anybody who seeks the Truth about God preserving His Word for this generation should check this site out. And anyone who trusts modern version bibles this site will show you why you should not put any trust in them, and why you should trust only the KJB as being the True Word of God.

God Bless you Jema, and all who seek His Truth.

The Tribulation: Concurrent experiences with different effects.

When viewing the Tribulation to come; we can tend to be locked into a matter of fact chronological and literal reciting of events; even keeping the proper concepts of Christ's eventual return to rule and reign in glory and defeat the Antichrist and False Prophet as well as to judge the world when He returns. This is a necessary undergirding for the message; but often people seem to have a sense of morbid curiousity; or feeling that there is a random series of events that occur and resigning themselves to the idea that no real design or logic can be given to explain them.

Perhaps the biggest thing that is ignored i that there are concurrent things going on depending on the spiritual state of individuals. Purpose #1 for the Tribulation would be to finally get Israel to acknowledge their King; but first as Isaiah 10 and 11 demonstrate they will embrace the "Assyrian" who God uses to chastise them until thy realize at the last minute is their ultimate betrayer. Thus; we have the rather shocking contrast between the indestructible 2 Prophets as well as protected 144,000 compared to the rest of society. Whatever their struggles are they will hold great power until the Beast from the Abyss destros them (2 Prophets) and the 144,000 appear in heaven. Once God's purposes are done for Israel; He will deal with the rest of the nations which is purpose #2.

God will use the Tribulation to bring the final fulfillment of Joel 2 for the nations; but of course it involves individuals; some of which will be saved and others who are lost. Once the world is ripe for judgment there are prophecies such as Isaiah 17 that will come to fruition; many of which complete judgments against rebel nations and certain descendants laid out in the O.T.

Revelation is the "Grand Central Station" of the final conflagration and what all other scripture leads up to.

I hope to cover some of this in detail shortly.

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18 A Standard lifted up

Concerning what works are accepted of God, and what works are not accepted brought forth by the Creature.

Whatsoever work man is moved and led unto by the Spirit of God, and guided and ruled in the practice of, to speak or act whatsoever by the same Spirit (which moves and leads into all the works of righteousness, and not into any evil) this is acceptable in the sight of the Lord, and these works are well pleasing to him: where the Lord goes before, and is the leader in all things, and this man and his works who is led with the Spirit of the Father is justified and accepted of God, and not for the creatures sake, who respects not the person of any but for his own Name sake, because they are wrought in him through faith, and is moved unto, and guided in by his own Spirit, and they arise from Gods righteousness revealed in the creature, and not from the righteousness of the creature, for man being changed and replanted into the living Vine, and the root being good, every work which springiest forth from it is good also, and accepted of God, because the root is so: But whatsoever works are brought forth by any creature, though the same in appearance which are accepted of God from another, yet not being moved unto

2 of 2 Chap 18

and accepted of God, because the root is so: But whatsoever works are brought forth by any creature, though the same in appearance which are accepted of God from another, yet not being moved unto, nor guided in by the Spirit of the Father, but brought forth in the will and wisdom of the creature, which is from below, and acted in imitation from the Saints words; these works are not accepted and well pleasing unto God, but is offence unto him, and sin against him, even the sacrifice of the wicked is an abomination unto him, and if a man come before the Lord with thousands of Rams, and ten thousand of Rivers of Oils, and if he give the fruit of his body for the sin of the soul, and cover the Altar with tears, and is not led with a measure of Gods Spirit, none of all these works are accepted; nor his preaching, praying baptism, nor breaking of bread, nor any other observances towards God whatsoever, are not good in his sight but evil, and to be contented, and the root from whence they spring; because man is in the enmity against him, and not changed out of the old root, nor in that state is not led with the holy Spirit of the Father; and the root being bad, the branches are evil, and none are accepted of God in any thing which they perform towards him, but such as are in Christ Jesus, the second Adam, and such are new creatures, so that it is not for the creatures sake that any work is accepted of, or offence against God, but only for his Name sake, and because of being guided, or not of being guided with the measure of Gods pure Spirit: Therefore is man and his works good and accepted; or evil and not regarded, but condemned of God.

Hi, Yes, I understand translation differences. Cling vs touch are similar, however I believe he could ascend at will and was not subject to time restrictions as he walked by power from the grave.

Adam,

I don't see where the verses you referenced conflict in any way with what I said or the verses I quoted.

If God has "saved" us, i.e. we have become Born Again, we will ENDURE TO THE END. We will have an earnest ongoing desire to be obedient to the Law of God and we will more and more turn away from sin in our life; not in order that God will "save" us, but because we have a "want to" in our Soul to obey Him.

Philippians 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Then God will COMPLETE our Salvation at the Last Day when we receive our Resurrected Spiritual Bodies.

Here are some other verses for your consideration:

John 3:3-8 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

2 Timothy 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

David0921

The soul and spirit are separated at death!

The spirit is what goes to be with God, the soul goes to the grave.

Heb 4:12 Tells us "For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the ((dividing)) asunder ((of soul and spirit)), and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart".

The word (dividing) is #3311; it means a separation, to part, to disunite, differ, difference between.

This clearly tells us the soul and spirit will be separated, disunited, there is difference between them.

The spirit goes to be with God who gave it (Eccle 12:7) ( 2 Cor 5:8) This spirit is what Christ brings back with Him in ( 1 Thess 4:14)

The soul goes to the grave ( Ps 44:25) ( Ps 49:15) ( Ps 89:48) and in ( Acts 2:27) The word (hell) in this verse is #86; it means the place or state of departed souls.

The soul will rise from the grave at the return of Christ to meet the Lord in the air ( Jn 5:28-29) ( 1 Thess 4:13-17) and be reunited with the spirit that returns with Christ.

This is not my opinion David but it is the truth from Scripture.

If this is not Biblically correct then please show where it is not correct. If it is correct then please accept it as it is the Truth.

We should all see truth when presented with truth, IF we are being led by the Holy Spirit, Right?

I do not mean to offend anyone, but we are very quickly running out of time.

The Truth matters!

Blessings to you and all who seek His Truth!

Hello, Richard, so sorry that appendicitis was the cause of your ailments, but thankful that you checked yourself in at the hospital to have it treated in a timely way. It can be deadly if not treated and also a blocked bowel can also be deadly or else one could lose the bowel below the blockage and end up with a colostomy bag. So, I am thankful that your surgery went well and you are on the mend. It is normal after major abdominal surgery to not lift anything past 5-10 lbs. for 6 weeks. it's amazing how much we use our core abdominal muscles for so much of the activities we do without even thinking: balance, sitting and standing up from a sit, standing and walking, turning over in bed, etc. Take it easy my friend.

I am so glad you brought this situation to us for prayer.

When one is hospitalized one gets a real picture of all that the staff need to do for patients everyday round the clock, working long shifts of 10-12 hours. Nurse and nurse's assistants do so much for patient care. And the skill and expertise of doctors is valuable. I, for one, am not afraid of medical treatments because I know that there are so many things that can go wrong with our bodies that need such care. The errors of the medical staff are small in comparison to what can go wrong with our bodies all by itself.

You were in the hospital 10-11 days.

That's a long time! Bet it feels good to be home finally even if you are still somewhat weak. I pray that you will have someone over to help you with some tasks. Be careful and sensible in your recovery, Richard, and I will pray that you recover well and heal without any troubles. You've had enough trouble in this episode for sure.

Thanks for the update. Much love brother.

Chap 17 A Standard lifted up

Concerning Faith, this testimony I give unto the World.

Faith is the gift of God, and by it Christ is received and enjoyed; it is the substance of things hoped for, and the very evidence of things not seen, gives the creature to believe God in all what he hath promised, all that which is acted and spoken in it, is well pleasing unto God, and that which is done without sin; it is the strength of the creature to act for God, in all things it is that whereby the world is overcome, and all the powers of hell and death, it is the armor against the Devil, and the defense of all the children of God, by it they overcome all their enemies, and through it they reign over all the world, it carries through all sufferings and tribulations with joy and patience: Faith is an act of God in the creature, through it peace and righteousness and the crown of life is received from God, by Faith all things are received that are received of God by any of his children: He that hath Faith sees and feels the Lords presence at all times, and through Faith we do and suffer gladly for the name of Christ in all things, and this is thus far our testimony given by the Spirit of the Father, of these things of which we have received the knowledge from God, who hath given us his treasure, and we have this treasure in earthen vessels, even the knowledge of these things which are eternal, which is not our own, but the Lords to give forth according to his moving's, and of those things have we handled, tasted and felt.

1 of 2 Chapter 16 A Standard lifted up

Concerning the new Covenant, and how man comes to the knowledge of God, this testimony I give.

The Covenant of God is unity betwixt God and man, and a binding each to other to serve each other, the one is bound to obey, and submit, and worship; and the other to blesse, and keep, and lead, and preserve; this Covenant is established with his own seed for ever, and there is no teacher but God, all is taught of him, from the least to the greatest, who are in this Covenant, his just Law is written in their heart to condemn all transgression, and his pure Spirit is put into the inward parts, to be the rule and guide of life in all things, and none need to say know the Lord, but all knows him in the Spirit, and worships him, and obeys him, and follows him in spirit, and in truth, and such are come into peace and reconciliation and God and the Covenant with Hell and death is broken: and in this Covenant, there is no Priest nor offering but Christ Jesus the high Priest of God, the one offering for sin, he takes away sin and makes intercession, and in it is no temple, but our bodies are the temple of God, and he dwells in us, and walks in us, and there is no circumcision but the circumcision of the heart, which is the putting away of all the uncleanness of the flesh, nor in it there is no means of salvation but Christ the only way the truth and the life, and none comes to the Father but by him, he declares of the Father and there is no light but the light of the Lamb, all that are saved shall walk in the light of the Lamb, and there shall be no need of any other light, no need of the light of the Sun, nor of the Moon, nor of a candle, but the Lord is unto them an everlasting

2 of 2 Chapter 16

light, and God alone is their glory, and this Covenant is for ever, and cannot alter nor change, but is sure unto the seed of his own inheritance, but he that is born of the flesh hath no part in it, who is shut out from the knowledge of God, who is not known to the wisdom of this World, which is foolishness' with God; and the knowledge of God is received no other way but only by the revelation of Jesus Christ, and by the working of the Spirit of the Father in the heart, he opens the blind eye, and unstops the deaf ear, and changes the heart, and causes it to understand, and he removes that which hath stood in the way betwixt God and the creature, which hath caused ignorance in the creature, that the Lord could not be seen nor perceived. Christ Jesus the second Adam lighteth every man and all mankind that cometh into the world with the true light, but some hates the light, and they will not come to the light, least their deeds should be reproved, and their deeds are evil, and they are in a condemned estate, and such cannot receive Christ nor the knowledge of God, but such who love the light with which Christ hath enlightened them, they bring all their deeds to the light, and walks in the light, and their deeds are wrought in God never to be condemned, and such as loves the light receives Christ and the knowledge of God, which is eternal life, and none comes to the knowledge of God, and of Christ any other way but through the light of Christ, and by the operation of the Spirit of God, and evil is condemned out of the heart, and the heart is made clean by the word of God, and the knowledge of God is received into the clean heart, and nor into the impure, for without holiness none shall see God; nor ever come to the knowledge of him, neither can the knowledge of God be received by the traditions of men or any outward observance in the will of man, but only by the teachings of the eternal Spirit, is the living God known in the creature

1 of 2 Chap 15 A Standard lifted up

Concerning all creatures that God made, this testimony I give unto all the World.

ALL creatures that God made in their creation and beginning was very good in his sight that made them, and unto man that was to use them, and no creature was evil or defiled in its creation, but mankind transgressing against his Maker, he became evil, and did evil in the sight of the Lord, and he being possessed with evil and corrupted, he makes all creatures evil in his exercise of them, and he corrupts them and perverts them to another end than wherefore they were created, and by the creatures, dishonors the Creator, who should have honored him by them, and they are become a curse unto man and not a blessing, though in themselves are neither cursed, nor evil, nor defiled, but is become so unto man, because of his transgression and disobedience; for he being in the curse and defiled, all things are so unto him, and in his exercise of them he is wicked, abusing them upon the lust to satisfy his devilish mind, and ruling over them in oppression and cruelty, and hard heartedness, and not in the wisdom of