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it wasn't a light things in Paul's day to be a Christian, one could experience the things that Saul did to Christians, before he became Paul.
you stated:
We are to judge those who are inside. Why? Because those inside the church who are involved in sin, they must be dealt with in order that they might repent."detailing a person who has not yet repented"
Paul's speaking about being a member of the body of Christ here, how can one be in the church, & has not yet repented?
a quote from William Penn
Sin is of one nature the world over. For though a liar is not a drunkard,
nor a swearer a whoremonger, nor either properly a murderer, yet they are
all of one church; all branches of the one wicked root, all of kin. They have
but one father, the devil, as Christ said to the professing Jews, the visible
church of that age. He slighted their claims to Abraham and Moses, and
plainly told them that "everyone who sins is a slave to sin" ( John 8:34).
The Jewish religious leaders did the devil's work, and therefore were the
devil's children. The argument will always hold upon the same reasons, for
as Paul said: you are slaves to the one whom you obey, ( Rom 6:16); and
said John to the church of old, "Let no man deceive you; he that commits
sin is of the devil" ( 1 John 3:7-8). Was Judas ever the better Christian for
crying, "Hail, Master," and kissing Christ? By no means; they were the
signal of his treachery; the signs given so the bloody Jews could identify
Him and arrest Him. Judas called Him Master, but betrayed Him;
he kissed, but sold Him to be killed; the same is the result of the
false Christian's religion.
how many who would call themselve Christian's today, members of His Body, fall underneath this judgment & be put away because of their continuing in sin?
society today is a direct reflection of the state of this false church of Rev 17 preaching you can be a Christian & yet continue in sin. Mark 7:7 Titus 1:11
in love & truth Rev 18:4
Good to hear from you once again.
Thanks for returning and participating in our conversations.
Jesse answered you well. We are to take disciplinary measures to those within the church and we let the civil laws take care of those without the church.
Even so, like John the Baptist did to Herod and the Jewish leaders and also Jesus did to the Jewish leaders, we are to speak up for what is right and godly and call what is wicked sinful and against God who made us. We should call those outside the church to repent of their sinful lives and believe the gospel of Jesus. We are to also work in our communities and our civil rights to improve the culture of our neighborhood, city, and country. We are to work to alleviate want and suffering of others around us and stand up for those who are oppressed and mistreated. We are to speak against the things that lead to moral decay and protect our children from bad influences. We are to use our time wisely to fight against the evil of this world as the Spirit lead us to do. We can warn others about the reality of eternity in hell if they remain disobedient and in unbelief and certainly herald the freedom we have in Christ due to the redemptive work He has done for us knowing that our eternity will be spent with Jesus in perfect peace, love, harmony and goodness.
But final judgment of any person is up to the Lord. We can judge actions as being good or evil, righteous or sinful, God pleasing or offensive to Him. There is nothing said in Scriptures against doing such things for the benefit of others. But our motives and attitudes need to be holy in all things we say and do in regards to the sin in others.
In 1 Corinthians 5:12, as far as evaluation goes, Paul says for what have I to do to judge them also that are outside? Do not you judge them that are within?
1 Corinthians 5:13 is important. This is the evaluation. God judges those who are outside of the church. We are to judge those who are inside. Why? Because those inside the church who are involved in sin, they must be dealt with in order that they might repent.
And Paul says therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person, detailing a person who has not yet repented.
Hope this helps?
I've addressed your commenters, than your particular question, please forgive me
As I consider your comment,
You stated, that you are saved, & yet it appears that you don't know God's Voice.
Friend,,,,Its impossible for one to be saved & not know His Voice.for how could He lead you out of darkness into His marvelous light without learning to know His Voice in the working out of your salvation ?
John 10:3,4
You stated, that you believe that you still need to do what is right to get to heaven, this is very true, God has place this within your heart, never let that go.
You stated, don't we need to obey the ten commandment? This would be a good start & yet the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus exceeds the law of Moses. Matt 5:20-48
You stated, I get so confused listening to different people preach, how do you know which one is right?
Jesus said, John 18:37 Love the TRUTH, & you will learn His Voice, the still small Voice of conscience that accuses you when you do something wrong or excuses you when you do something right Rom 2:15
This Treasure we have in our earthen vessel 2Cor 4:6, The Light of His Spirit, seek Him there
in love & truth
The way I interpret your question is how much must I obey God to get into heaven? What is the bare minimum?
Because some feel inconvenienced to follow Jesus- whether embarrassment or other excuses. And do you have to obey the 10 commandments or any of the other commandments in the Bible? You already know what God says- He called them "commandments" for a reason, but some want to be comforted and hear that you can do whatever you want, whatever feels good, in this world and be ok? If that the hope, that's Satan's message.
It looks like this has received a lot of comments. Some are pushing false teachings which should be called out. It doesn't matter what man says, but what God says, right? Isn't it better to please God than please man?
"But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves." James 1:22 KJV
This clearly says to be a doer of the Word. It's not enough to just hear it and do nothing. Christianity is an action. I don't see anywhere in the Bible saying you're saved on earth before you're even judged. Please share verses that back that up, because I haven't seen any. I see verses saying you can have assurance of salvation. There's verses saying we will be saved, but it doesn't say right now before our life is even over- I believe that's the assumed part that deviates from scripture.
"But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven." Matthew 10:33
Baptism:
"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." Mark 16:16
I think its risky to intentionally disobey Jesus, then expect all the benefits.
"And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?" Luke 6:46
If you don't obey, why even call him Lord? You're not even a follower. This is my interpretation of what Jesus is saying here.
Matthew 7:24-27 - Jesus's point of this parable is obeying Him. "doing" "doeth"
12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.
Does this mean that Christians should judge Christians and not waste their breath on the infidels???
We can do nothing against Truth,except by the Truth.The Devil said to JESUS:"It is written-Ps.91:11-He shall give his angels charge concerning thee:and in their hands they shall bear thee up..."JESUS said to the Devil:But it is also written,Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy GOD
You are surreptitiously saying that the Christians"have to follow God's/Jesus Commandments".Many of the Church of Galatians said the same you are saying.
Then the Apostle Paul said unto them:"Gal.3:1-2&7-14KJV,and4:1
1O foolish Galatians,who hath bewitched you,that ye should not obey the Truth,before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been set forth,crucified among you?
2This only would I learn of you,Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law,OR by the hearing of faith?
8Scripture,foreseeing that GOD would justify the heathen through faith,preached before the GOSPEL(not the Law)unto Abraham, saying,In thee shall all nations be blessed
7Know ye therefore that they which are of faith,the same are the children of Abraham
9So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham
11 No man is justified by the Law in the sight of GOD:for,The just shall live by faith
10 As many as are of the works of the Law are UNDERS the CURSE.(GOD forbiden)
13 Christ has redeemed us from the CURSE of the Law, being made a curse for us: ...
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the GENTILES through Jesus Christ;that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith
Ch. 4:21-22KJV
21Tell me,ye that desire to be under the Law,do ye not hear the law?
22 It is written,that Abraham had two sons,one by a bondmaid,the other by a freewoman;
23 He who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh;but he of the freewoman was by promise
24 Which things are an allegory:for these are the TWO covenants; the one from the mount Sinai(the Law),which gendereth to bondage,which is Agar
25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia,and answereth to Jerusalem which now is,and is in bondage with her children
Carleton
When and if you really get serious about breaking free from sin, God will give you the power if you increase your Faith and believe that you can! Right now, I don't think you believe that it is possible because you have said as much. Matt 17:20 Prayer works wonders!
Yes, I have been in the process of turning my back on this world, over the years I gave up drinking, bars, nightclubs, sports, movies, concerts, worldly music, striving to make money, fancy clothes, fancy cars, collecting things, etc. anything that the Holy Spirit convicts me now as lustful/sinful. I only watch a small amount of TV for keeping up with current news, and I have cut back on that, and may completely at some point as I can get some news on line. I wouldn't mind throwing the TV out right now, my wife might get still get mad at me if I do, I'm going to keep working on that one:) It's a process for sure.
You asked:" However , I have not sold all my possessions and given all the money to the poor , have you?" Currently, I own a small modest house with my wife, transportation own a used 1997 pickup truck, I work on myself, don't need or want anything new or fancy. At this point in life, I have a roof, a bed, enough food, and thats all I need. I'm a tradesman always involved in construction, spend some free time now helping others in need, to make repairs and upgrades on their homes in my neighborhood free of charge, I try to help others whenever I can, as I feel God has blessed me with my hands to perform any type of work/creation. My wife also spends a lot of time/money helping others.
At this point whatever we have over and above essential living expenses, we are willing to help others as the Spirit moves us, and we do, and that is all for the glory of God. If the Spirit moves me "to give everything up" and hit the streets to evangelize full time I will heed that call. I leave all up to God.
GBU
Yes keeping Jesus will, as He kept His fathers will! Amen.
John 15:10"If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love."
I find your meditation comments thoughtful, and encouraging, keep them coming.
GBU
I don't think you've been reading/comprehending what I've been writing. My main point is that many christians today are deceived into thinking they do not have to follow God's/Jesus Commandments. They will tell you straight out that they don't have to. There is so much scripture supporting the need to adhere to these commands, and I've listed many verses previously.
1John 2:4 A Born Again Christian will in fact adhere and consciously follow God's Commandments. Why? Not because they are doing it on their own, it is because God's Holy Spirit is working in them to do it. So David, It is not works when you are following God's Spirit and adhering to the commands in the scriptures. Doing good works is the result of the Holy Spirit. 1John 3:24 Convincing each of us to pick up our cross, and turn away from this world is God working a miracle in us. As Christian's we should be sharing this with each other, and encouraging each other to obey God, keep His Commandments, and strive daily to overcome sin! Instead, I hear a lot of Christian's telling each other that they will never stop sinning, while at the same time continuing to live their worldly lifestyles.
The scripture always shines a bright light on the truth! Regarding God's Commandments there are so many verses outlining the need for us to embrace and become obedient, and this is just one of many powerful verses regarding the Commandments and in-fact: could be the greatest regarding keeping the Commandments and achieving salvation: Revelation 22:14"Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city."
In summary, the above verse tells us Jesus will personally be at the entrance to the Kingdom/Everlasting Life, and "He tells us directly" to have the right to the tree of life, and enter through the gates into the city, ONLY those that do His Commandments!
Jesus shines the light!
GBU
Seek, and ye shall find ( Matthew 7:7).
They say, and I Completly Disagree, 'once addicted always addicted'. That in it self is a weakness you must let go of. For Only Gods daily word, unconditional love, forgivness (past, present & future), peace that He will help you through surpassing All understanding & His strength beyond compare can keep you from such. Yet if you have that saying in the bk of yur mind 'Im weak' you shall continue to be. Let go & let God has great meaning my friend.! It's awesome & Nothing can lead you away, you'll want to do ANYthing for Christ Even be able to spread His word w/out fear.! Take care Morgan, God bless, 'Texsis'.
I'm sorry, but that is not what the Bible teaches. If you are keeping the commandments of God in order that God will save you, or you will become acceptable to him. That is not what the Bible teaches.
By the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
We are saved entirely by God's grace, alone, and not by our works in any way. If we are trusting any work that we do to contribute to our salvation, that is a gospel that cannot save.
When God saves an individual, they become born again. That means that God gives them a new resurrected soul in which they will never want to sin again. But that soul still resides in a body that has not been saved and still lusts after sin. So we will grow in grace, and want to, and will obey God's commandments to a much higher degree than when we were not saved. But that obedience does not save us in any way.
Our obedience to the commandments of God are the Evidence of our salvation. They are never the Cause.
You state: "I think there is a difference between trying to obey the commandments and believing that we need to obey them in order to be acceptable to God." Jesus doesn't agree with you Jema, and He is telling you that we must do this to be acceptable - to Him. I previously gave you the verse below spoken by Jesus, He is telling us point blank:
Revelation 22:14"Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city."
Jesus leaves no wiggle room in the above verse. Hebrews 4:12 False teachers are very prevalent today, they are out amongst us, they believe and teach others that they can ignore tons of scripture like this regarding the commandments and sin. They live worldly lives almost indistinguishable from the secular/atheists. They try to convince themselves, and others that they can have this world and still receive salvation. Jude 1:10
Jema, I remember FrankieJ previously gave you some good spiritual advice, I will also. We must withdraw from the world. Put God first, including His Commands/Commandments.
Stop telling yourself and others that you can NEVER stop sinning. If you have God's Holy Spirit anything is possible! Have Faith! Believe!!!
Encourage yourself and others to stop sinning. Similar to alcohol and drugs, Sin is a Addiction. If you don't acknowledge it - it will control you and ultimately bring you to destruction.
3 John 1:11 "Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God."
And please remember if you want God to dwell in you: 1 John 3:24 "And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us."
GBU
Rev. 12:9. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and the angels were cast out with him.
1 Cor. 2:14,15. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
Acts 26:17. To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
Matthew 7:7. Seek, and ye shall find.
Jesue said Matt 5:20
the expression of the Scrip implies obedience,, for Matt 7:21 to enter His works that's been prepared for us from the foundation of the world. Ephesians 2:10 which is these works of righteousness of Titus 3:5 that comes to us by His mercy towards us.
What are His works, the first is 'repentance" God Spirit work upon one soul, convincing one of their sins, which springs from the spirit of unbelief, that comes from the devil, his influnece upon one's heart, & keeps one in his kingdom of disobedience & all who plead for sin & are convince we're not to be delivered from it in this life is of the devil, are deluded, deceived & believe a lie,
2 Thessalonians 2:11 their faith is a life & why? Because they did not choose to become lovers of the Truth. 2 Thessalonians 2:10,11
I could go on with this vein of Truth that's Scriptural sound, with sound reasoning. His Spirit Witness in your own hearts witnesses to the Truth that's being reveal. the question is will you receive Him?
Friends, for the love of your eternal souls, & for the love of Christ soften your heart by Jeremiah 4:3 thorns, the corruptible seed of the devil & Hosea 10:12 the free gift, the Word of Righteousness, the incorruptible Seed of Rom 5:17 & receive Him
in love & truth
There is no earn salvation, in being obedient to God commands.
Obedient does show our love for Him, according to Scrip
Believing, loving & obedience go hand in hand, it's the proof of having one of the other, aligns us with the whole of Scripture to all those who walk in the faith of Abraham James 2:18-24
Titus 3:5
States to those who believe, there are works of righteousness to be done, that all may see & glorify our Father who is in heaven. Matt 5:16
Yet, it's not by these works that we are being saved, but by His Mercy, Who causes us by His Spirit influence upon our hearts to will & do of His good pleasure & His good pleasure is to love Him, become obedient, which shows itself forth as these works of righteousness.
1Pet 1:22 Seeing ye have purify your souls in obeying the Truth, states obedient purifies us by 1Pet 1:23 by hearing & becoming obedient to the incorruptible Word of God that lives & abides forever is how we become born again.
This is the working out of our salvation with fear & trembling, the sanctification of the Spirit unto obedience, stating the progressional work of "washing of regeneration & renewing in the Holy Spirit" bringing us unto obedience. & sprinkling of the Blood/Life of Jesus in our hearts that cleanses & purges out not only the sin, but the evil one from our heart, who influence us to sin.
Folks, the very essence of the Salvation is obedience, & one must learn obedience, eventually bringing us to become holy, blameless, unreproachable & acceptable in His Sight. Col 1:22
Hebrews 5:9 states there must be obedience to be born again, & Jesus becomes the Author of their eternal salvation
Again, it's only by His merciful loving kindness that we are empower to these works of righteousness, which conforms us into the Image of the Obedient One. Rom 8:29 Who always did those things that pleases the Father John 8:29 John 14:31
He's our Example, lets pick up the cross & follow Jesus, His Spirit Rom 8:2
in love & truth