Bible Discussion Replies PAGE 195

Hello Chris,

Thank you for your response.

I just take what is said in Hebrews 4 at face value as being the same gospel because I do not read in the epistles that there are more than one gospel. Paul even said in Galatians that if anyone preaches any other gospel that that of Jesus, they are to be accursed. So the New Testament is the Testament of the Gospel of Jesus Christ preached by those who knew Jesus in His earthly life and resurrected life and Paul who knew Jesus after His resurrection. I believe that the rest spoken of in Hebrews is our inheritance as saved individuals, but the gospel is that of Christ crucified, even that of Him being crucified from before the creation of the world. This is the Everlasting Covenant made between the Godhead to create a people who will need to be redeemed from sin they commit, death they will face as a result of sin against God, and the evil one who prowls after fallen mankind to keep them from redemption.

God foreknew all of these things and His plan of redemption predates His creation of the world and all beings that live. God's purpose for creating was to redeem a people for Himself to share in the glory of His presence, life, and communion of the Godhead. He, in His infinite wisdom always knew that this was the ultimately best way to create what came into existence, even with the sureness that many angels will sin and rebel, and also, that mankind would sin and rebel, and then that the good created world will be corrupted by the sin of mankind and the fallen angels. God is so much greater than all of this sin and corruption. He knew that He could infinitely overcomes both sin and the evil ones through His acts of salvation. He knew that a redeemed people is infinitely better than a people who could not sin and would not know of sin.

So, I see only one gospel preached, one Eternal Covenant, one plan for all of the redeemed, and one way for all to be saved in Christ Jesus. ...cont.

Hi Rugrah,

Great question. This is what Jesus tells us.

John 14:2 "In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you."

John 14:3 "And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also."

GBU

Good question Shylesh,

The words in italics in the King James Bible were added by the translators to assist in the English flow of the translation. They are not words that "were MISSING from the manuscripts in the original languages"

We can be thankful that the KJV translators put these additional words in italics. It indicates their sincere desire to be faithful to a word for word translation of the original languages. And God has graciously given Theologians and Bible teachers and any student of the Bible, tools like concordances and interlinear versions to check out the translators.

Avoid a paraphrase version of the Bible like the plague.

May God richly bless you as you read and study His Word, the Bible.

Ronald,

If I can be so bold as to suggest that you are attempting to understand the Godhead using Human Logic. And that is impossible. Our finite peanut minds cannot fully comprehend an Infinite God that has existed from everlasting to everlasting and created this World from nothing, by speaking it into existence.

God reveals to us in His Word that there is only ONE GOD, and there are THREE PERSONS in the GODHEAD, all of whom are Eternal God Himself. We cannot sort this out or "explain" God. We trust this by faith.

Furthermore, the Bible is clear that The Lord Jesus Christ is Eternal God Himself and that He humbled Himself, took on a Human nature, and then took upon Himself EVERY sin that ALL of His Elect have or will ever commit, and then endured the Wrath of God Himself, required by the Law of God, the penalty for their sins. Again, we cannot sort all this out from a mechanical perspective. But we know it is so because God Himself declares it to be so in His Word, the Bible. And this is what every True Believer trusts by faith, and even that faith itself is a Gift of God, and is part and parcel of Salvation itself.

God did not write the Bible in a way that it can be approached and understood like any book written by a human author. God wrote the Bible so that we must search it out, comparing scripture with scripture, applying the principles that God lays out for us in the Bible itself. And even then, it is God Himself that must open or understanding and lead us into truth as we do this.

So here is the crucial point, Ronald, if we are trusting in a Gospel where Christ is not Eternal God Himself, then we are trusting in a Gospel that has no Savior. Because if Christ were not Eternal God, He could not have paid for the sins of those He chose to save. And every sin, every violation of the Law of God, must and will be fully paid for, either by Christ or by ourselves.

Once again , you read my heart and mind and say what I cannot , thank you :) .

Why there are italic words in the KJV Bible? What does that mean? Are these italic words added by men to fill the gap of missing words in the manuscripts? Are these added words accurate and to be considered for God's word? Are there any references for these added words somewhere else in the Bible?

Hi GiGi,

Thank you, and you did not offend me as I hope I have not offended you. You said the one thing that is what is most important in this conversation. What God do we worship, this is what we are accountable for. Do we worship a triune God that is three coexistent, co-eternal, and co-equal Persons who are God? Or do we worship "The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ" the "One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all." Are they the same God?

In love, what God we worship is the truth we must all in our hearts find. As you said will leave it be.

God bless,

RLW

Veronicagt7

Yes it is the 4th Commandment.

Regarding the Sabbath scripturally, this is directly from God.

Exodus 20:8-11 "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy." Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

God want's us to rest one day a week. He also wants us to give others a day of rest. Look how crazy this non-stop world goes 24/7/365 days a year. This Sabbath Day is for man, it is a gift to us!

1 John 2:4 "He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him

GBU

Sure there are many versions of His word. But God told us to read, 'study' & learn HIS word to grow in His truth. He did NOT say: ''some day, ppl will write other versions changing (adding/omitting a sin in itself) My truth, but it's a good read cuz you'll understand it more simple so go ahead''. Not what His freewill is about.

NO, He never said it would be easy yet promised it will be worth it (studying His truth). He inspired ppl to write what He wanted written to be read for His purpose. KJV is complete, needing NO change. (I have a 1600 bible that is word for word unchanged). If we do what He ask, our life will be fulfilled & only then can you truly know "His peace that passes all understanding".

NOT w/what the world wants one to believe which eventually turns us away from Him. In doing so, you are saying His work wasn't good enough, I want to make it better. Say that to his face & see how far you get. *Only true believers* (ppl that make time for His truth letting worldly desires go, Getting rid of the junk in this world not needed). *Not mere believers in Christ*..think about this..EVEN SATAN BELIEVES.!

SO, anyone that knows His word knows what's going to happen to him.! Please, don't get left behind. It does make a difference. His writting is not our understanding, therefore make time to study.! Praying for His guidance. On this app it allows us to look up meanings just press on a verse & scroll. So even if you dont get a new bible cuz you want to 'understand' what it says, then study earnestly not allowing yur version of 'The Holy Word' meaning to stray you. Words in His writting are way diff then English meaning. Pray this helps Someone (many) out there. In Jesus name, Heavenly Father I pray the world wakes up to YOUR right truth, A M E N .

Will the saved in Christ reign with Him in heavenly places?

Chris,

What you, and others that hold your view, are doing is missing, ignoring, denying (you chose the word) that the EFFICACY of Christ's Atonement extends from the FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD. This is clearly stated by God in Rev 13:8 and Heb 4 and aligns with everything God declares throughout the Bible about the Nature of Salvation.

If this were not the case, no one living in the OT could have ever become saved. Why? Because no one can, nor ever has, kept the Law of God perfectly. And God's perfect justice demands that full payment for their sins be made before they could be saved, before God could apply that Salvation to their life, before they could become Born Again. And God cannot and will not violate His own Law. But Abel, Noah, Abraham, David, and many other OT Believers did become saved.

Your "understanding" also ignores the fact that there is no "inherent faith" in Mankind that is pleasing to God and that all Mankind is, by nature, in rebellion against God ( Romans 3); and that God Himself must apply His Salvation to anyone that He saves by creating in us a New Heart, a New Resurrected Soul, when He saves us. This is becoming Born Again. And the "faith" of Salvation is entirely a Gift of God and is part and parcel of Salvation itself.

And this must happen to anyone that God "saves", throughout time.

God does this, and can do this, only because the EFFICACY of Christ's Atonement, His payment for the sins of His Elect, the terms of the Covenant, have all been met FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD.

So the question we are discussing really is the question of the Nature of Salvation itself.

A M E N..very well said & so very true. Bless you Bro dan. It's short verses like these that seem to have the most power in them. The devil may be ruler of earth, for now, yet ppl seem to forget, God is in control. NOTHING gets past Him. He knows & sees ALL.

Awesome. Praise God you got thru the hard time when satan was trying to make you weak. As its said the movie "Sound of Freedom" WHEN GOD SPEAKS you DO NOT HESITATE. With Him by your side no one can be against you. Bless you & may you continue to Always follow His word.

I too am struggling w/ppl around me yet keep my mind on Him. If we let our mind stray, soon the heart will follow & thats when evil creeps in slowly. Before you know it, its to late & we'r falling into sin. Evil will flee if you keep repeating Jesus name for satan can Not hear our thoughts. I pray quietly yet when in dire need of our Lord, it can be heard. God bless 'Texsis'.

hi Friends;

OT gospel was the law of Moses

Hebrews 8:7-9

To say that it was the same gospel, would be saying that the gospel of Jesus Christ is faulty, & we all know it not.

1 Peter 1:10-12 "of the Grace that should come" future tense

NT gospel is the law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus, that sets one free from the law of sin & death

Who is able to redeem one completely out of sin. By the Blood/Life of the Lamb of God, who's blood/life purge out the old leaven from our very heart, & forms there, by His Spiirt the new creature,. Col 3:10 By God's command 2Cor 4:6 Who brings Jn 1:17 Who is ABLE cleanses, delivers & redeems to the uttermost to all that come to God through Him, Meaning in Spirit, not the letter.

Yet, I believe there were few in the OT, who's faith reach out into the NT

Remember, faith come by hearing & hearing by the Word of God, Himself,

David, son of Jesse, would be one, Heb 6:5 his writing speak of this Spirit of Grace & Truth.

What measure he received of it ? him & God knows !

in love & truth

Zach spoke out of unbelief, for he had a precedent, Abraham & Sarah

Mary ask an honest question, what happened to her was something never before heard of or done.

She believed Luke 1:45

Yes, it was all mercy & grace

Thanks brother S. Spencer for those worthy thoughts and about Israel's spiritual blindness suffered in Jesus' Day, just as they were in the centuries before; even though many of them trusted God, not knowing how their lives stood before Him & what their end would be. They had to be cast upon Him, He Who judges righteously & would apply the Blood of His Son to them also in that coming day, that they too, with us, might stand before God justified by faith in and through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Page 2.

Yet, Hebrews 9:26 states, "For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself". Writing about the yearly sacrifices made by the OT High Priests, the writer explains that Jesus' Sacrifice was different even in this respect: Jesus came only once to deal with the sin problem forever. If His Sacrifice applied to the OT faithful living in those days as well, then Jesus' Crucifixion had to begin from those days, & done often.

This tells us that before Jesus came & gave His Life, all Israel were under the Law & remained condemned for their sin. But God chose to be merciful to them through their obedience in sacrifices. Though those sacrifices looked ahead to Jesus' Perfect Sacrifice, His Sacrifice had no bearing upon them at that time, or else as the Scripture gives, "He must often have suffered since the foundation of the world". And Jesus would have had to "suffer" often, as the OT Covenants were in force & the New Covenant in His Blood had not occurred. But He didn't suffer & die for them at that time, but only after "he appeared (now once in the end of the world) to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself"; only at Calvary, the price of sin (for those of the OT & latter days) applied. Even if the Gospel preached unto them was of Jesus' Sacrifice, it would have not been understood by them & not even applied to them - until Jesus finally came & secured those OT saints & us post-Cross, to His praise.

Page 1.

Thank you GiGi for your view on this passage. And I did sense that you would align with David's thoughts on it, as mine appear to be wholly dispensational in understanding. True, "we don't know all of what God told the OT saints", and in fact Isaiah 53 might be the most detailed prophecy we have of a coming suffering Messiah, so it can only be one's viewpoint as to what Gospel (whether one of the Cross or of eternal Rest) that was given & what the people understood of it. In any case, the point in our discussions (with David0921) was, if it was the Gospel of Jesus' Sacrifice that was preached to them (as you also accept), then those who came under the sound of it, who obeyed God in faith, had that salvation applied to them; i.e. they were saved, eternally secure - they were born again at that time.

So our problem here is threefold: 1. what was the nature of the Gospel brought to the OT saints; 2. whether their faith in God (and the Gospel brought to them), actually saved them from that time on; and 3. was the Holy Spirit given to them as well (to save them, making them new) which then begs the question, what was the need of the Holy Spirit poured out at Pentecost? This pouring out wouldn't then be necessary, as everyone (OT & NT) who puts their faith in God through the eternal Sacrifice of Jesus ("slain from the foundation of the world"), would be born again & automatically receive His Spirit. Onto Page 2.

Thanks for taking the time to reply. I think what was confusing me was the way the statement is structured. Just looking at light doesn't really make your body full of light in any concrete way, or your heart either. Just looking at evil doesn't make your body full of darkness. But if you take it in the context of the passage that comes before (don't store up treasures on earth), and the passages that comes after (no one can serve both God and finance and don't worry about your earthly needs), it becomes more clear that the eye focused on the hereafter has different priorities than the eye focused on getting ahead in the world.

Gigi, your comment is very relevant. Wasn't looking at the context of the two passages which come before and after the statement. They help to contextualize where our sights should be set.

Thank you David0921 for those great Scriptures, which we have raised between us over these past days. I believe them as you do, but it's in their application where we have disagreement. GBU.

Whoa, Ronald,

Where did I judge you personally? I re-read my post and I nothing I said indicates that I judged you. And in my last post to you I said that such judgment is God's realm, not mine. So, let's be at peace today.

Ronald,

I have given you what I believe concerning God from Scripture. Many on here have given long lists of Scripture verses that illustrate that God is Triune. I will not do so here. But one can find such verses easily if they do a search: verses that illustrate the Trinity. As to your question about in order for one to be a Christian they must believe in Jesus as Savior and also in the Trinity, I choose not to answer because I think this is God's realm to determine who is truly saved. We are all in process of learning more and more of Who God is, which Jesus said that eternal life is to know the only true God and Jesus Christ, whom the Father had sent. Eternal life is only received from God and Jesus said to those who believe in Him He will give them eternal life.

I do not know how God will judge those who do not believe in the Trinity, or that Jesus is not God, or who worship Jesus, but say that He is not God (which would be idolatry if true). But I am confident that those who believe in Jesus as Savior and believe that the Godhead is Triune are definitely saved because they worship the true God revealed in the Bible.

I hope this answer satisfies you and I hope it does not offend you. Either God has revealed that He is Triune (1 X 1 X 1 = 1) or singularly One person and being (1-=1). We will find out on judgement day. So I will leave it at that for today.

Hello Ronald,

I believe that one is saved through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father who was conceived in Mary by the Holy Spirit. I believe that Jesus' sacrifice is eternally efficacious for forgiving sin and paying the just penalty for our sins because He is God. Only God can save us and only God can forgive sins. Jesus declared to people that their sins were forgiven, so He is claiming a right that only God possesses. I believe that the Holy Spirit was sent by the Father AND the Son. In Scripture, the Father speaks of Himself as an "I" and about Jesus and the Holy Spirit as "you". Likewise, Jesus speaks of Himself as "I" and of the Father and the Spirit as "you". The Spirit speaks to us about Jesus and brings glory through us to the Father. These truths from Scripture show me that there are three distinct "persons" in the Godhead but, as the Scriptures also say, there is only one Being who is God.

The Scriptures tell us that God is Love. Since He does not acquire any attribute but possesses all of His attributes fully, infinitely, and eternally. Therefore, before creation, the Godhead loved each other and were in relationship to one another as "I"s, "You"s, "We", and "Us". If there is only One Person in One Being then who did God love before creation since His attributes are a description of how He acts?

For me, the God I worship is Triune, Three Persons (Who one is) in One Being (or essence-what one is-Deity). All three are fully Deity and possess all that Deity is equally without dividing up the Divine essence. The Persons are distinct from one another, but united in one Essence(Deity). So there are not three gods, only One, but the Godhead lives as three Persons.

I know that some who profess to be Christian do not believe this way. I think that believing in the Triune Godhead is essential to one's Christian faith. If one does not believe in the Triunity of God, then they worship a different god than I and others who believe this. ..cont

Hi GiGi,

In my last reply to you I said this doctrine was placed equal in value with, there is only salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, and without this doctrine one cannot be saved, I ask you if I was wrong, please tell me. Your comments to Chris seem to affirm this is your belief. Sorry you did not tell me. I know history as well. I forgive you of your judgement of me.

God bless,

RLW

Hi Brother Chris.

I agree 100% what you have said that OT Israel knew nothing of a coming Messiah's Sacrifice of His Life for them & substitutionary payment. Hence, the word 'Gospel' mentioned in Hebrews 4 is not the same Gospel they received as is the complete Gospel that the Apostles preached post-Cross. (Perhaps not in the way it is preached in 1 Corinthians 15:3-4)

I believe the OT saints did what was required of them at that time to make them just with God. Their temporal rituals and sacrifices exemplified the Gospel and perhaps the resurrection was preached by "type" when Issac was offered as a sacrifice by Abraham. Hebrews 11:17-19.

However, could they have perceived it, being that Jeremiah 31:31-34 have not taken place yet?

When we study Hebrews in its entirety, we know that this new covenant was not to come under the Levitical covenant. This is clearly seen in Hebrews Ch 7 and 8.

So, when we look back at this, Israel mind was blinded and there was a veil upon their hearts, as mentioned in 2 Corinthians 3:14-16. "But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the Old Testament, which vail is done away in Christ.

But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.

Nevertheless when "it" shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away. (The "it" mentioned here is their hearts.)

When Israel turns their hearts to God the veil and the blindness shall be taken away.

This is what Paul is saying in Romans 11.

Israel was incapable of receiving the revelation of the Gospel under the Levitical High Priest and if you study the Gospels carefully, neither could the Apostles until the death of the one that filled the role of the Levitical Priesthood at the Cross.

(I believe this is what John's baptism was all about)

The resurrection began the new covenant under the new Priest hood. ( Hebrews 7:15-16.)

Now Christ faith in them will give them rest.

Thats future for them as a Nation

Does keeping the sabbath still a Command?

The Favor Of God

We have the victory, Lord will bless thee, God favor is peace...

God will bless and keep thee, HisFace will shine upon thee, Psalm 31:16.

I want the favor of God in my life. Blessings of the Lord will not bring sorrow. The joy of the Lord is my strength. He will keep you in perfect peace whose mind on

Him...looking for God's favor. His in favor I'd life. Thank God for His favor!!! Joy is coming in the morning. We are winners. It is God's mercy that I am not consumed!!!

God got it under control!!!! He is able.. I got favor of God over me!!!

God's favor will change your life. Psalms 5:12... Proverbs 3:1-6

Stay under the Blood. Keep living right for the favor of God, God is faithful, Wait on God. Corinthians 16:23

Prof. Veith. In depth study of Revelation. In 1798, France recognized the United States of America as a world power. The 1st beast is the Vatican,and the 2nd beast is the United States of America;[ military & federal reserve ] There are 2 popes. The white is the Vatican which is visible to humanity. The Black pope is in the shadows,but visible if you know what to look for. [ symbols,numbers,astrology,gematria,ect ]. The black pope and his army are the jesuit order. When the C.I.A. and the F.B.I. were 1st established both men were trained jesuits. ALL secret society's, freemason's , knight's templer ,counsel on foreign relations,the buildeburg group,club of rome,scientology,moormans,ect..all whorship lucifier . But God. ALL those that are born again through the power of the Holy Ghost know that this is not our home. Lord Jesus come Quickly.........God Bless

looking at the conversation of angel Gabriel to both Zacharias and Mary, we see that Mary is actually a carrier of grace .The word of the lord says I will have mercy on whom i will have mercy on. Both Mary and Zacharias did doubt the message of God but only Zachariah was punished, it was only when Mary received confirmation of how the child was going to be conceived that her faith or believe came into work. Let's take a look at verse 18 "whereby shall I know this? For I am an old man, and my wife well stricken in years. These were the words spoken by Zachariah to the angel, now let's look at verse 14. How shall this be? seeing I know no man" see right? They asked almost the question, but the fact that either Zachariah was a priest and should know better than doubting the word of God or the fact that Mary carries grace and lord Jesus Christ was coming from Mary and she needs to be pampered, angel Gabriel took time to explain to Mary, this only explains that we have grace more than ourselves. As a student I shouldn't follow the footstep of my friend who doesn't read but passes because grace differs, there are also those who will read more than I do but still pass more than them, that is what the scripture calls grace, when grace is in use, all protocols are broken.