Bible Discussion Replies PAGE 2

I am offended when someone , anyone , rejects the teachings of God in favour of the teachings of men and then teaches others to do the same . I think we all need to spend more time with our Bibles and less time in the things that pertain to men .

May I ask you a personal question ? Of course you do not have to answer and I shan't be offended if you decline . Your own children , were they ' baptized ' as children ? If ' yes ' do you consider them all to be saved because of this infant baptism ? Even your son who converted to islam in order to marry a muslim lady ?

Amen to you Brother , Acts chapter 8 has been written and preserved by God for our understanding , in particular verse 37 . The traditions of men , however comforting they may seem to us with their smooth words , are to always be rejected but especially when they quite obviously contradict what is written in the Bible . The Bible which is the Word of God .

Ronald,

The Anabaptist rejection of infant baptism and insistence of believer's baptism as the only valid baptism is a TRADITION that began in the 1600's in Europe following the Reformation movements of the 1500's. Who are those who believe like the Anabaptists to say that infant baptism is a tradition of men? I could say that about the anabaptist position since it was not held by believers for 1600 years and there are early church leaders such as Irenaeus, Tertullian, and Origen who speak of baptizing infants as being normative in the church since the apostles. I would think that these people who were close in time to the apostles and apostolic church teaching and practice would better know what was true of the church in those first centuries than anyone else who lived in the last 400 years. There are two traditions here, the one of 1600 years of practice in the church (infant baptism) and the one of 400 recent years of the anabaptists. If you are going to speak ill of traditions, in all fairness you should recognize that your own anabaptist belief is just as much a tradition as my belief in the validity of infant baptism. Both are inferred from Scripture as to whether or not infants were baptized in the first century church as there is NOT any Scripture that explicitly speaks to this practice pro or against.

I am offended when people play the "tradition" card when speaking of beliefs that date back to the early church as opposed to beliefs that have arisen in recent centuries. Both are traditions or doctrines of the faith and neither is wrong or should be denigrated simply because someone thinks that traditions and doctrines automatically reflect unbiblical teachings.

I do not intend to be quarrelsome with you in this matter but it does bother me when someone uses the "tradition card" to be dismissive about a viewpoint that has long been considered to be orthodox (right belief) views.

That said, I wish to end this conversation with you for the sake of peace.

Part 2

My husband also was baptized as an infant, but his parents did not live their lives as believers. when we met, I shared Scripture with him and he returned to faith in Christ that He had believed and learned of in Sunday School and Confirmation.

When our children were born we opted not to baptize them in infancy because we were confident that they would choose to baptized at some point in their childhood or teen years. But they did not and still are not baptized nor walking in faith with God.

Now that I am in my 60's and my sons are grown, I have studied this topic of infant baptism over the past 3 decades and I have come full circle back to infant baptism as one valid option because I now understand regeneration better am convinced that Scripture says that the promise of salvation and the privilege of baptism is not only for adults, or parents, but for their children as Peter said in Acts 2:38-39 and understanding the covenant nature of God and His people and His consistent unchanging ways across history as Col.2:10-13 connects circumcision as the sign and seal of being brought into the covenant union of Israelites with God with how baptism does the same thing to believers and their children.

If I had to do it over again with my sons, I would have had them baptized as infants because I now understand how God works in the lives and hearts of the elect even in in utero or infancy and can regenerate His elect at any time He chooses. By faith, I believe He does so in children of believers and therefore, these children are holy and are to be brought into the covenant family by baptism as infants.

You may not agree with me on this, but that is fine with me. I have explained my understanding in the posts to Jones and to you and I stand by them s still, but I welcome to read the biblical reasons anabaptists use to see as valid only believer's baptism.

Dear Ronald,

I understand where you stand too on this.

I must say in response to your reference to my infant baptism, I truly cannot recall a time when I did not believe in Jesus, that He died for my sins, that He forgives me because of His love and sacrifice for me and have always walked by faith. I did not base my salvation on my parents at all. I was regenerated and given the power to believe by the Holy Spirit as early as I can remember. So, my baptism was valid as a witness to the reality of God's work of grace in me before I was baptized as an infant. You may not believe this to be true, but I do because I have walked with our Lord ALL of my life. My regeneration and salvation is not based on my faith or repentance, but wholly on God's grace bestowed on me as a holy child of believing parents, as the passage in 1 Cor. 7:14. It is not difficult for me to believe that God does regenerate fetuses, infants, and children just as He does adults. It is ALL a work of God, not because I have faith or repent. But I believe and repent because God regenerated me to be able to do these things with a heart that has been enlivened and made fit for relationship with Him only by His grace.

I know that people who came to faith as an teen or adult may have a hard time affirming this because their intellects were fully developed when they came to faith. But they, too, were regenerated before they believed, as well. Certainly God is able to do as He pleases in regenerating those elected to salvation at any time during their life-conception to death.

And some who have been raised with an anabaptist theology of baptism and salvation will have difficulty affirming my belief.

As for myself, I was baptized as an infant and raised by believing parents who placed the gospel before me from infancy. When I became an adult, I fellowshipped in pentacostal/charismatic churches that taught believers baptism and though that this made sense as one in my 20's and 30's. cont.

Hey GiGi,

I know how you feel about this, what I said is a baby cannot believe and accept Jesus as their savior. God in His plan has chosen and placed people in this world to do His will like John the Baptist and many others. God our Father's plan was before anything and as we are, it is June 2024 but to our Father, He is with us today and He is with us when all is made new.

I know you were baptized when you were an infant, can I say that is wrong? No. As one grows one must decide on their own to accept Jesus as their savior regardless of whether they were baptized when they were an infant on the faith of their parents, we must make that choice regardless of our parents.

God knows yesterday, today, and all the time to come, but we are told we must be obedient to our Father just like our Savior Jesus who was obedient unto His death. Salvation and our eternal life with God and our Savior Jesus start with our belief that Jesus is the Son of God who He sent to die for us and pay the price for sin so that we will have eternal life.

It is up to us not our parents. The traditions and doctrines of men will not give us eternal life, only the belief in Jesus the Son of God who God gave that we can be saved.

In Love God bless,

RLW

Hello Ronald,

Those who understand the gospel and believe should be baptized.

But to say that infants cannot receive regeneration through grace or be given faith is not something the Scriptures say explicitly yes of no. We do have the example of John the Baptist who leapt in mom's womb when Mary came to visit and John recognized the Savior in Mary's womb.

Another example is David who said that God taught him truth, wisdom and to lean on God while he was in the womb. Ps. 51:5; Ps 71:6 This shows that even though David was sinful even in the womb, David testified that God works grace in a fetus, therefore He can do so in a newborn infant, toddler, or child as He wills. It is reasonable to believe that God does work grace in the heart of infants even when they do not mentally understand, just like He did to those who as adults were dead in their sins and without God.

So, I believe the Scriptural directive to believe the gospel, repent of sin, and be baptized IS specifically for those who can understand their need to turn to God.

But I also believe that God said not to hinder children from coming to Him and that includes baptism for the chlldren of believers who are said by Paul to be holy (saints) already.

I think that Scriptures support both ways to come to baptism. Yet each postition concerning infant baptism comes by inference and not by explicit teaching or excluding infants because the passages concerning believing, repenting are directed at adults.

Irenaeus, a disciple of Polycarp, who was a disciple of John, has clearly stated that infant baptism was the practice of the church passed down from the apostles.

1 Corinthians 15:41 states: There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

Proverbs 4:18 But the path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day.

Isaiah 57:1 The righteous perisheth, and no man layeth it to heart: and merciful men are taken away, none considering that the righteous is taken away from the evil to come.

This last passage could possibly be in reference to those who vanish in the Rapture as well. Food for thought....

In my series of 7 postings on what is about to come to pass; I alluded to the righteous shining like the sun from Daniel. In regard to our battles with the enemy; he both accuses us of our sins and works to convince us that we aren't able to ever be in good standing with the Lord. There is danger in both extremes; thinking we are blessed when we aren't even saved; and being convinced we are still in darkness because of besetting sins. Surely we must confess and not try to hide our sins if we want to be forgiven.

This righteousness is something which is to be experienced with a servant's heart. Christ of course was the only truly righteous man who ever existed consistently throughout His earthly ministry reflecting His Divinity. It is the Body of Christ which was the focus of His ministry; his life and death. As a Christian we should seek to keep the church pure and build one another up and display the love of Christ in fellowship and communication with one another as well as when sharing the Good News with others.

Sadly; there are some I have had experience with who have displayed unedifying behavior suited for a church bought with a price.

If we are to be confined to a house church because of being unable to find a good church or persecution in the future; that will no doubt strip some of the pride that has crept into the organized church leadership up until now.

Maranatha.

Hey Jonesdm1 - 7,

We are called by God, Matthew 22:14, Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life, and the only way to the Father, John 14:6. Anyone can be baptized but he that believeth and is baptized will be saved, Mark 16:16. This is on us, it is our obedience to the Father, we must truly in our heart believe Jesus is the Son of God the Messiah/Christ, and our only hope of salvation, we cannot do that as a baby. It is not a ritual we can check a box on the way to salvation it is between us and God and it must be done in the name of Jesus that we see in the entire New Testament.

When we are baptized in the name of Jesus, what we see in the Bible, we are submerged in water, we die to sin, and are buried in death with Jesus, and when we are raised from the water we are raised into a new life in Christ. We are justified and our journey then begins with sanctification in our walk in the Holy Spirit.

God bless,

RLW

Jonesdm1, part 2

What is water baptism?

Colossians 2:11-12:

"11. In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

12. Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead."

Romans 6:3:7:

"3. Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

4. Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

5. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

6. Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

7.For he that is dead is freed from sin.".

GBU

Hello Jonesdm1

I am not going to answer your questiond directly but I will give you some scripture which clarifies, I believe, everything about water baptism.

Acts 2:38. "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

Acts 8:27-39, "27And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship,

28Was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet.

29Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.

30And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?

31And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.

32The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:

33In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.

34And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?

35Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and PREACHED UNTO HIM JESUS.

36And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See,HERE IS WATER; WHAT DOTH HINDER ME TO BE BAPTIZED?

37And Philip said, IF THOU BELIEVEST WITH ALL THINE HEART, THOU MAYEST. And he answered and said,I BELIEVE THAT JESUS CHRIST IS THE SON OF GOD.

38And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

39And when they were COME UP OUT OF THE WATER the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, ..."

GBU

Thank you for writing out those answers!

This is the order that I was taught and still believe to be true based on my own study.

Acts 8:36-37 are some of the greatest verses about Baptism. Philip gives the conditions for baptism: That the individual must believe with all their heart that Jesus Christ is the Son of God (this rules out babies being baptized). 1 Pet 3:21 states that it is a figure that is the answer of a good conscience toward God. Based on those two passages, I believe that Belief comes before Baptism.

Now to compare being Born again to Believing, but first, just to define terms, what does being born again mean? It is the same as quickening and regenerating ( Eph 2:1; Tit 3:5). It is a phase of our salvation when God revives us spiritually with His Holy Spirit. We are physically born dead in trespasses and sins ( Eph 2:1-3). When Adam cursed mankind in the garden of Eden he died spiritually that day. God told him he would die the day he ate the fruit ( Gen 2:17), but Adam lived up to 930 years ( Gen 5:5), so either God lied and the Devil was telling the truth ( Gen 3:4) or a different type of death occurred than physical that being spiritual.

Rom 8:7-8 are powerful verses about the state of the carnal mind. Without God's gift of the Holy Spirit we can do nothing that is pleasing to God. Without the Holy Spirit dwelling within us, we only have the old man, the flesh, the carnal mind that hates God without the new man and spiritual mind that wants to please God.

Okay, back to the order of B's... 1 John 2:29 says "every one that doeth righteousness IS born of him" not shall be born of him. If a man does righteousness it is proof that the righteous spirit of God dwells in him and that he was born, quickened, and regenerated to have a spirit that loves God.

Additionally, John 1:12 mentions those who believe on him, but the verse does not end with a period. The rest of the thought is that they WERE born of God ( John 1:13).

Born again, Believe, Baptism.

Oh, Lane, I will be praying for you to be renewed in the Lord in every way. You are loved by God and He desires You to have joy and life in Him. May he lift up your heart and fill it up with grace and faith.

Jones,

cont. Pt. 2.

We should consider also that when the gospel was being preached by the apostles, there were no second generation children brought up by believing parents at that time. So, the individual baptisms of adults such as the eunuch (who would remain childless) and Saul, (who was single) or Timothy are showing the baptism of those who had not been brought up by regenerated Christian parents. Children of parents who were regenerated were in a different standing than adults who profess faith, repent and are baptized.

The last thing I'd like to point out is that the Scriptures do not have any explicit teaching TO baptize children or infants AND NO teaching NOT to baptize children and infants. Therefore, any stance one would take on infant baptism is by inference.

Just as the Holy Spirit can regenerate adults and give faith to believe in Jesus when they were dead in sin, so can He do the same in infants and children of believing parents who will believe the Gospel as it is taught to them as they grow in intellectual understanding of Jesus, salvation, and their need for sin to be forgiven. We cannot confine God and His grace to one's own way of thinking concerning salvation because the Scriptures clearly say that it is given to us by God alone and not on anything we do. We are chosen from before creation to be saved and He will bring it about. If baptism does not save, but instead is a sign of God doing a saving work in an individual's life, why can't we believe that He can do this in the life of any infant, child, or adult before they have faith to believe? Our faith and repentance comes from God as a gift, and we should believe that He will gift our babies and children with regeneration, faith, and repentance as they are considered holy (saints) by reason of believing parent(s) as soon as they are born. They are just as eligible and deserving of baptism as a sign and seal of the covenant God has promised to the elect no matter their age at baptism.

Hello Jones,

Good question.

My thoughts are that since one must be regenerated by the Hoiy Spirit and given faith to believe by him, the order that I would say is regeneration (born again) as a work of God alone comes first as He has elected one to salvation by His will alone. Then comes faith to believe, then baptism as far as believer's baptism goes.

With infant baptism, the person is baptized first with the parents believing on God being a covenant God who is consistent. In the OT circumcision was the sign of entering into a covenant relationship with God. It included both adults, children and infants. In the NT, God is still covenantal with His chosen people, so whole households are to enter into covenant relationship with God.

As is said in 1 Cor. 7:13-14 Paul says that parent(s) are believers, then the children are holy. And Jesus said not to hinder children from coming to Him, including infants ( Mk. 10:14' Lk. 18:16). We are to our children into the household of God in Christ. Baptism is the ordinance that sets one in the covenant relationship with God, therefore we bring infants tinto the church through baptism.

I think one needs to understand that when the Bible speaks of whole households being baptized it is most likely children and infants were included, just as they were in the OT with circumcision (the sign of being in the covenant people of God). Every OT Israelite was not of true faith as Abraham, but they were included within the members of the congregation anyway. Therefore, in like ways, children and infants are baptized, relying upon the promises of God that salvation and forgiveness of sins is for oneself and for one's children, as Peter said in Acts 2:38-39. We also need to realize that when Peter spoke these words, they were addressed to men who had come to Jerusalem for the Pentecost feast, not to women and children. Does this mean that women are not to be baptized into Christ since this statement was addressed to men? NO!

cont.

God grants repentance which leads to salvation; and godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to life. There is no way of getting around it; that we must repent and believe; and both true desires come from God. Judas Iscariot had worldly sorrow because it lead to death; He had no understanding of Christ being God in the flesh just having offended an innocent man. He didn't want to seek forgiveness and repent for his sins; his pride wouldn't give him that option apparently.

At this point we have belief; and in order to confess with our mouth and believe in our heart we have to also do a public act of identification and show how we are dying to ourself. Jesus made it clear that if we are ashamed of Him He will be ashamed of us when He comes with His Holy angels ( Luke 9:26; following Luke 9:25 about gaining the world and losing one's soul). I would identify Baptism as being associated with belief and therefore in conjunction with it but immediately after true faith is established. Any church in good standing would ensure a person believes before submitting to the authority of Christ and symbolically being part of the Body of Christ; dead buried and raised with Him.

Believing as the initial step must be more than a mental affirmation of Christ as Lord for even the demons believe and under compulsion everyone on heaven and earth will bow in submission to this fact. To be our Lord and Savior also means a change of who our master is; rather than the god of this world Jesus is our true Master. There are actions therefore that must accompany any true profession of faith; albeit rare circumstances like the thief on the cross who didn't have time to be baptized.

There is no good reason when it can be done to wait; then one has to doubt the sincerity of one's profession.

I would say believing and being born again are pretty much simultaneous; therefore AFTER repentance and remittance from sin with Baptism to follow.

Hi Jonesdm1.

You said you do have an answer for the order, so I will just share my belief.

Ephesians 4:4-6 says "There is ONE BODY, and ONE SPIRIT, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;One Lord, one faith, ONE BAPTISM,

One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and IN YOU ALL.

So, this baptism here speaks of the baptism of the Holyspirit.

We are now joined to Christ by the Baptism of the Holyspirit.

We are part of the body of Christ!

This baptism includes Romans 6:3-4

3)-Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

4)- Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Verse 3 speaks of the old man within ourselves dying. (Christ was Judged for our sins)

Verse 4 Speaks of the quickening of the Spirit that rose Christ from the dead and now we are born from above.

The following verses sums this up.

Romans 6:5-11.

For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

There is other verses that Parallels this.

So I say once you genuinely believe, you are baptized and born again simultaneously.

You are now justified in the eyes of the Lord.

Thanks and God bless.

Romans 8:18-25 - written in Corinth during Paul's 3rd missionary journey - around year 57 AD;

18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. (According Philippians 3:20-21 combined with 1Corinthians 15:51-57 and Luke 20:35-36)

19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of GOD.

22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

...

John 3:31-36

31 He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.

32 And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony.

33 He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that GOD is true.

34 For he whom GOD hath sent speaketh the words of GOD: for GOD giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into His hand.

36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of GOD abideth on him.

Around 2000 years ago or much probably 67AD was written the book of Hebrews. Hebrews 6:1-3 say:

1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward GOD,

2 Of the doctrine of BAPTISMS, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal Judgment.

3 And this will we do, if GOD permit.

Hebrews 5:12-14

12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of GOD; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the Word of righteousness: for he is a babe.

14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

Around 2000 years ago or much probably 60/65AD was written the book of Matthew. JESUS said: Matthew 24:14 and 32-35

14 - This Gospel of the Kingdom shall be preached in ALL THE WORLD for a witness unto ALL NATIONS; and then shall the END

come. (The TESTIMONY OF OUR LORD JESUS IS THE SPIRIT OF PROPHECY, UNDERSTAND? Revelation 19:10)

32 Now LEARN a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, KNOW THAT IT IS NEAR, even AT THE DOORS.

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

GET READY

Philippians 3:20-21

20 For our conversation is in heaven(heaven? Ephesians 1:3-8); from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:

21 Who shall CHANGE our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto His glorious body, according to the working whereby He is able even to subdue all things unto Himself.

The Word is GOD, GOD Himself, self-executing

There are 3 B's in a Christians life. In alphabetical order they are: Baptism, Believing, and being Born again.

Those 3 B's should happen in a particular order. What is that order?

Is it...

You Believe which makes you Born again, and then you can get Baptized?

You get Baptized, you get Born again, and then you Believe?

You Believe, get Baptized, and then you're born again?

etc.

I will say, I do have an answer for the order and why, but I would love to see your stance based on what the New Testament says about these 3 B's.

Praying that Lord be with you all as you draw closer to Him and His Son our risen, reigning, and returning Lord Jesus Christ.

Questions about Baptism.

1. What is baptism and what is it for?

2. Who can get baptized? (Should babies be baptized like in the RCC)

3. What conditions need to be fulfilled for someone to be baptized?

4. What is the proper mode of Baptism (sprinkling? pouring? dipping?)

My Lord JESUS said: All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth...and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the END of the world. Amen. Matthew 28:18...

1 Corinthians 15:24-27KJV

24 The END cometh, when he shall have delivered up the Kingdom to GOD, even the Father( Luke 20:35-36); when he shall have PUT DOWN all RULE and all AUTHORITY and POWER.

JESUS does not need to be visible here on earth or present in Person to perform the strange work as Isaiah prophesied: Isaiah 28:21-22

21 For the Lord shall rise up as in mount Perazim, he shall be wroth as in the valley of Gibeon, that He may do His WORK, His strange WORK; and bring to pass His act, His strange act.

22 Now therefore be ye not mockers, lest your bands be made strong: for I HAVE HEARD FROM THE LORD GOD OF HOSTS a CONSUMPTION, even determined upon the WHOLE EARTH.

Luke 21:26-27

26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.(cloud?it is the same cloud of Acts 1:9-11, understand? it has nothing to do with cloud or H2O around the whole world, such a thought is/would be ridiculous. Take a look)

By the way, The NATIONS will be wrathed, but the WRATH of our GOD comes... and He should destroy them which destroy the earth.

GET READY

I have been told many eons ago in college that I was a prayer warrior. Maybe I should have more of this sort of thing on this site.

If the Spirit isn't ministering in a specific way (and it is hard not knowing anyone here personally) then I am perhaps not being edifying. I would really like the Lord to speak something that is effective; although I have learned it isn't always something I am aware of which applies or encourages someone.

I would bet that a lot of reason people don't pray much for one another (maybe your experience is different) is because they simply don't love them enough to do so. I would say that this sort of expression may be a strength of some in the more "charismatic persuasion". Again that was more from my past experiences.

Not sure if it is something you can relate to; but often I feel a very strong prompting of the Sprit to either pray for someone or have a specific thing to say (or Word of Knowledge). Having discernment means you have a heightened sense of the good AND evil around you. I have prayed for a few to receive that but don't know if any have. It ain't the thing to ask for if you want your life to go easier; I'll just leave it at that.

I appreciate your recent responses. Not sure for every one person that responds how many others are incognito. Not that I need acclamation but mainly pray that there are more than a few here who are soldiers under command (as the motto of the Stryper band in one of their early albums).

As a friend where I used to live said he was "desperate" for prayer. Thus he had early morning prayers before work; which I briefly attended before I moved out of town. Let us all have this attitude.

Agape; Rich P

My Lord JESUS said: All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth...and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the END of the world. Amen. Matthew 28:18...

1 Corinthians 15:24-27KJV

24 The END cometh, when he shall have delivered up the Kingdom to GOD, even the Father( Luke 20:35-36); when he shall have PUT DOWN all RULE and all AUTHORITY and POWER.

25 For he must reign, till he hath PUT ALL ENEMIES UNDER FEET.

26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

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Peter Apostle warned: 2Peter 3:12-14

12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the Day of GOD (this Day arrived, the seventh and last Day or seventh and last millennium),

wherein the heavens( Ephesians 1:3-8-OT and NT) being on FIRE- Isaiah 20-21 AND 19- shall be DISSOLVED, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of Him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

Get ready, do what GOD recommended- Isaiah 20-21

Looking to the future (Part 7).

It's nice to have my TV down the rest of the week (actually my parent's). Gives me more time on this site.

When we speak the Gospel truth and IF the Lord is coming in the not too distant future; we certainly would expect that SOME would come to Christ after the Rapture and removal of at least some of the church. Given that some people today actually STEAL Bibles; it is probably a good idea to have a few extra on standby. I imagine it will do some good after the Rapture; but no doubt the truth will be realized even with the deadly deception that aliens or some other explanation is given for the disappearance of many living AND resurrection of the dead. No doubt the 144,000 and 2 prophets as well as other believers martyred at the time will know some scripture; and no doubt also Antichrist will use much of it to attempt to prove his deity and status; power and authority (or the Satanic bible).

We should look at those who don't yet believe as both blind to the truth at present but to be given that revelation at a later date if they are indeed coming to the faith at some point. In the context of God being beyond time; of course He already sees them as they will be called; sanctified; glorified ( Romans 8:30) That's how I see it anyway.

Therefore whatever the end result is as to all who are saved and those who are lost; that is the inevitable route their current trajectory is taking them. Seeing things as they are in our own understanding is to say the least depressing. No doubt some things we will understand better in glory. God says not to look back on the former days (Ecclasiastes 7:10). No doubt evil spirits were dominating in each generation; just in a different mantra; a different motif; a different genre; or cultural norm.

As Revelation 3:11 says we should be careful not to lose our reward to another. These are days when not only many fall away but many believers lose rewards. Let us hold on!!

Looking to the future (Part 6)

In this section I am taking a realistic view at the current immigration tidal wave and statistically what collateral damage is almost certain to occur. For now we should pray for this new Mexican President who is supposed to have some more collaboration with their military. That is essential as the last attempt a few years back against a drug warlord only resulted in a retreat of the armed forces with superior firepower from the compound. The hard facts are that TENS of thousands have died in Mexico because of these cartels; with many police officers being decapitated and otherwise killed. We have no reason to expect much less when these individuals have the whole COUNTRY to roam around undeterred. That; combined with other Chinese and Muslim nationals that have come en masse in recent months and years no doubt are going to bring increasing episodes of terrorism to our country.

I am hoping that our Republican Presidential candidate can be honest and not pretend that in day one everything will suddenly get better. If a warning isn't given that in order to fix things it will have to get a whole lot worse and we need to prepare for the long haul many may be too disheartened to finish the job and he may not have the chance to have a second term. I won't comment on politics much more here but will say that the immense amounts of money on the sides of both political parties would make a third party candidate seem to stand out in contrast.

As to wise investments; it SEEMS that silver and gold finally are beginning to rise to levels that the market gurus have been predicting for some time now. It seems from a couple scriptures that either near the beginning of the Tribulaton and certainly during it gold and silver will not profit anyone and is cast into the streets. Let us prayerfully invest while we can; but not believe every prediction that tomorrow the dollar will be replaced. One world currency is before the Mark.

Luke 17:28-30

28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;

29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is REVEALED. (Which of son of man is revealed? Since Moses there were several sons of man sent by our GOD as His messenger, and JESUS as GOD was the last sent around 2000 years ago)

JESUS my Lord made reference to the days of Lot and the city of Sodom to highlight and emphasize the destruction planned by GOD of the city of Sodom and neighboring cities. JESUS wanted to warn this current generation of believers in Him, how the Devil's current world will be punished and destroyed by GOD now, in this current time, even now, from now on( Revelation 11:15-18, mainly verse 18, combined with Isaiah 26:20-21.Take a look). By the Word of GOD(the Word is GOD, is the Power)Sodom and region as a whole was destroyed. By the way, GOD sent only two men to destroy Sodom and neighboring cities- Genesis 19:12-17, as GOD had spoken to Abraham, who interceded for the righteous of Sodom before GOD, unfortunately there were not found 10 righteous.

And now? The Word of GOD, the Power, is the same, so how many men will GOD send to destroy the World of Devil by the same Word, by the same Power, as He made in Sodom and neighboring cities, as was said by my Lord JESUS as example of destruction made by GOD? Yes, how many? Two or one? The Word is GOD, GOD Himself, self-executing, understand? By the way, the dismantling or destruction of all the structures of the Devil's world has already begun in this pre-tribulational period of sorows- Matthew 24:3-8- , the worst comes imediately after the end of the period of sorrows.

Get ready

Looking to the future (Part 5)

I will introduce briefly another concept which I may have mentioned in passing. That is; if we were invaded by another nation it still may not be the end; and it is possible should the Lord tarry longer than we seem to think at present that it could lead to a true revival or change of heart. Our nation's lazy work ethic has led to legions of evil because of all the free time we have accrued. Those who would survive a war would no doubt be in some sort of forced servitude; but perhaps that would help them appreciate a meal more; and any kindness. The true church would eventually arise; even from the tattered remains. Such is the case no doubt in myriad nations today as the Gospel can never be totally snuffed out.

Sadly; with the number of gun owners in this nation most people probably would die just in one on one combat. Whatever comes to pass; and as cruel as it sounds God does use calamities to SOME extent to rid the world of certain evil people. This is just as true as the fact that a disaster such as the tower at Siloam that fell didn't mean the sinners were any worse or better than anyone else; as we ALL have the same fate apart from Christ's mercy (see Luke 13:1-3). Overall; if we look at Babylon as an example God did spare some of His people and judged others with the invasion. We could have a similar fate. Nonetheless I see it as entirely plausible that we ARE Babylon; at least the economic version of it and likely could be destroyed in a day as Revelation 17 and 18 and many scriptures in Jeremiah reflect on in detail.

As a note for the present; even if the border were closed tomorrow or if it is next January this real invasion still gives us witnessing opportunities. There are innocent children and others mixed in who we should have the heart to help out; although wisdom is needed not knowing who we are dealing with. We need to stand against child sex slavery and illegal sweat shops NOW for His sake

Facing the future (part 4)

Luke 22:36 states: Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

Luke 9:54 And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?

I am not going to take this posting to decide to support one viewpoint over the other as to having a weapon of protection or relying just on prayer. I will simply state that different circumstances may merit different approaches. I also will add that in the case of the passage in Luke; we are looking at defending ourselves along paths where dangerous criminals tend to hang out so that long term travel after the Lord went to heaven would necessitate this wisdom at times according to Christ. When it comes to the government; we don't see any evidence in scripture in the New Testament of active resistance but just one or two occasions when Paul appealed his beatings as a Roman citizen; which probably was primarily to continue to allow others in the same position as himself to continue to preach the Gospel for a time.

We also see that in the church age the Lord works differently then in other times. When Elijah comes as one of the two end time prophets he and the other prophet WILL indeed cause fire to come down and kill anyone resisting them. We have; therefore the final dispensation that the Lord will use signs and wonders gifts; the complete fulfillment of Joel 2 started at the time of Pentecost. (sorry about that d word it isn't necessarily favored by some but I don't know a better way of describing two such distinct periods of time)

We also see a difference; of course with the Tribulation saints who say "how long" until vengeance is given for their martyrdom ( Rev. 6:10). I am sure that since the death of all saints is precious in His sight ( Psalm 116:15) all martyrs are avenged.