Bible Discussion Replies PAGE 214

Hello Ronald Whittemore

Greetings in Christ JESUS

You said above:

"When the sun and the moon are darkened my understanding, this is literal...In the mid-500 AD, there was when the sun and moon were darkened which caused famine and plagues that was caused by volcanic eruptions... , meteorites, or something else it will be a sign before Jesus's second coming... in Joseph's dream, he does see the sun, moon, and stars, my understanding of this is a representation of Israel and the woman who had the man child, Jesus, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron we see in Rev.12:1"

In my view you need to meditate more deeply the Word of GOD, unfortunately your description above is from a human perspective,a stumble,not from GOD's perspective.Rev.12:1-There appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the Sun, and the MOON under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: Here JESUS is not referring unto them which received Him not, and killed Him, quite the contrary, He is referring to His true Church in the world, He is the Sun, the Greater Light, the Light that came to the world,and it is He who clothes the woman with His Light.And under her feet who gives her support is the Holy Spirit sent by JESUS here- John 15:26 and 16:7-15-take a look. And the twelve stars of her crown are the twelve APOSTLES of our Lord JESUS,the Sun of Justice-Mal.4:2.

On the other hand,"When the sun and the moon are darkened my understanding,this's literal"according your human imagination What matters and prevails is the Word of GOD, the Word is GOD, self-executing or self-executable: And the Word is revealing that a STAR fall from heaven( Isaiah 14:12-15)unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit. And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit,as the smoke of a great furnace;and the SUN and air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.

One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter.

Get ready

Seven hundred and thirty five million . That's the number of people who go to sleep every night that haven't had enough to eat . Thy Kingdom come .

Oh ok, Don't know how it came up on my response. pray you get help with that.! blessed day to you & yours

Thank you brother Spencer. I have to believe that Jesus fulfilled every transgression ever known, once, in His sinless flesh and that He has no more to fulfill that hasn't been finished at Calvary regarding mankind while they remain in the flesh. Even Hebrews says he came at the end of the world. So as the regenerated, we look up in faith for the Lord's return to reap His harvest. In time ( I am 1% percent your equal in quoting scripture so quickly) I will add more scriptures and see how they fit some of the scriptures that came to your mind.

:)

Hi Brother Carleton.

I ran out of space.

Here is Part 2.

As I mentioned before, I believe these 70 weeks to be weeks of years.

Let's carefully look at Daniels prophecy as if they were consecutive.

Let's start where we know the 69th week ends.

It literally pinpoints a particular day.

( unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks:)

Everything written in Daniel 9 :26 is after the 69th week, "But before the 70th".

(AND AFTER THREESCORE AND TWO WEEKS SHALL MESSIAH BE CUT OFF,)

Now, let's look at the 70th week, ( 7 years)

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease...

There's several things wrong mathematically with some of the views I hear from most that share that these weeks are conservative.

We know by scripture Jesus was crucified within days of his entry into Jerusalem riding on a donkey.

We know by Daniel's prophecy in Daniel 9:25 that the 69th week ends at the coming of the prince.

If the cross is the half way point of the 70th week then that would contradict Daniel prophecy and push the 70th week back 3.5 years. ( 3.5 years before unto the coming of the prince.)

It don't add up going backwards, So let's go forward taking it either way.

If we go forward these final years come up about 37 years short of the Destruction of Jerusalem mentioned in Daniel 9:26 which is supposed to be in the 70th week according to this viewpoint.

There's an interval either way you look at it.

God bless.

Hi Brother Carleton.

Thanks for replying.

Jesus didn't come to end the law and make it desolate. He came to fulfill the law and perfect it.

He came to end the Leviticus priesthood where they presented sacrifices that pointed to him.

( Matthew 5:17-18.)

They rejected their king "Which was prophesied" They made their own "HOUSE" desolate. ( A people without a King to set on David's throne )

What the Prince that shall come does is totally different,

In Daniel 9:27 he confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate.

This is the same thing mentioned in Daniel 12:11, (The abomination that maketh desolate.)

This is what Jesus is saying in Matthew 24:15, ( This can't be at the end of Christ ministry because he said it this abomination would be at the end of the world.)

This 3.5 period is called the GREAT tribulation and it's prophesied towards Daniels "THY PEOPLE, ISRAEL.) Daniel 9:24.

You see this played out in Revelation 12:6.

Let's look at who confirms the covenant for 1 week.

Daniel 9:26-27 reads "And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: AND THE PEOPLE OF THE PRINCE THAT SHALL COME shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

AND HE SHALL CONFIRM THE COVENANT WITH MANY FOR ONE WEEK: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease....

The Romans destroyed the Sanctuary, Jesus is not their prince.

Jesus didn't confirm this covenant and cause it to cease at his death.

Jesus death BEGINS a covenant!

The covenant in Daniel is a totally different covenant the Antichrist will confirm with Israel and cause the sacrifices to cease midway through the 70th week/Tribulations.

Revelation 13:15

2 Thessalonians 2:3-4.

God bless.

See pt2

Hi

Oh yes,it's by the mouth,but what JESUS is revealing has nothing to do with a teaching on how"a frog capture it's prey"/or swallow his food,it would be ridiculous, the matter is much more deeper than you imagined.But what is the mystery?

See,even now and from now on, in this current time, Satan is mobilizing and gathering these three types of caste of demons he has under his power in earth and in waters, for the battle against the establishment of GOD's Kingdom.Rev.11:15:The kingdoms of this world are become the Kingdoms of our LORD,and of His Christ; and He shall reign for ever and ever.

I searched deeply an explanation for this biblical mystery. By the Word of GOD it is the follow: Frogs are amphibians vertebrate animals that live in aquatic and on terrestrial environment. But is it the same in the spiritual environment? Yes, it is.

1-THE AQUATIC ENVIRONMENT OF THE EVIL SPIRITS LIKE FROGS

Rev.17:15-And the angel saith unto me,The WATERS which you saw, where the WHORE sits are peoples, multitudes, nations and tongues. This is the aquatic environment of these three unclean spirits of demons like frogs, which rule/guide the nations/peoples of all tongues in whole earth through all kind of devilish systems, as religious systems, the idolater Catholicism, the esoteric Judaism, spiritism, budhism, islamism, among others,and also THROUGH political systems,and military, social, cultural, among others systems.In fact,Satan goes to and fro and from walking up and down among the Gentile nations.

2-THE TERRESTRIAL ENVIRONMENT OF THE EVIL SPIRITS LIKE FROGS

FIRST Israel is an island among the waters(Gentile nations)or in the middle of the sea described above according Scriptures.Israel is the earth, a dry land or still the clay- Isaiah 64:8-a dry land surrounded by water on all sides or, by allegory, surrounded by the Gentile nations.

Israel, the earth/dry land, was/is infested of idolatries, wichcraft, esoterism/kabbala,they wait a messiah,a false Messiah-John5:43-47

Hey Frankie J,

When the sun and the moon are darkened my understanding, this is literal. This is not something that has never been, it has happened in the past. In the mid-500 AD, there was when the sun and moon were darkened which caused famine and plagues that was caused by volcanic eruptions that are said to have killed one-third to one-half of the population in that area.

This will happen again whether it will be caused by volcanic eruptions, meteorites, or something else it will be a sign before Jesus's second coming. In Gen, 37:9, in Joseph's dream, he does see the sun, moon, and stars, my understanding of this is a representation of Israel and the woman who had the man child, Jesus, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron we see in Rev. 12:1.

The light is the Glory of God and the Lamb, the only begotten Son of God who came out from God from the days of eternity through Him all was created, the beginning of creation the first and the last. He hath preeminence over all because He conquered death by His resurrection and death is now under His authority and domain.

God bless,

RLW

Amen.. I feel the same & praise Him daily.! Most ppl dont understand how I have gone w/out tv for almost 20 yrs now. I simply tell them, between "Work, house, kids, church & job (s) keep me busy enough getting distracted from Him". I have seen & been through enough in life to know that anything else that keeps me away from Him isn't worth my time. Without Him we are nothing. I may not be rich w/money but w/Him I've never been happier & richer in my heart even when I was homeless I felt His love & comfort.! I can hardly wait till the rapture Lord willing I'm going. If not, I will still never deny Him for ANYONE.! Will probly run to the head of the line when it comes time for death because I will be super excited as I am now. Just read Rev and 1-7, especeally 3, is mighty powerful. Going to tell Everyone that doesn't know Him to read that & Repent.! Our short time on earth is nothing compared to Eternity w/Him. Praise God for His Son, love, forgivness & grace! Jesus is the ONLY way, the ONLY truth & the ONLY life.!! As He said.."It is finished". Amen. Keep the faith Bizz028..it may not be painless but it WILL be worth it.!

Thank you brother for your love! I still cannot see how past the end of the 70th year everything was not fulfilled as prophecy regarding the kingdom of the Jews. Even the Jewish new year lines up with the end the literal destruction of Jerusalem in September. The Messiah was cut off after 33 years (mid week) though as you said it is not written. The Lord's life and death in the flesh was in the first part of the 70th year and in His Life he confirmed the covenant, I believe.

Hi Frankie J,

There are different understandings of the second coming of Jesus. Discussing these is good if it inspires each other to study each understanding with an open mind and heart. If we don't and cling to our view with an I am right and you are wrong mindset, we lose. We never know when our eyes will be opened, I know my understanding of some things has changed over the years. Scripture does not contradict Scripture we do.

Matt. 24 Mark 13 and Luke 21 are covering what Jesus told 4 of the disciples on Mount Olive just before the Lord's Supper and His crucifixion. First I would like to say my understanding these are dual prophecies and all three should be studied. There are things we can see that were for the disciples and what they were going to face. We also see things that have not yet been fulfilled.

You wrote, "Christ word out of His own mouth, which shall not pass away refutes all these words & beliefs concerning His 2nd Coming". I am sorry, I do not understand your meaning if you could expand on that.

God bless,

RLW

Good morning all, morning meditations regarding king Cyrus a gentile king.

Isaiah 44:28 "That saith of Cyrus, He is my shepherd, and shall perform all my pleasure: even saying to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be built; and to the Temple, Thy foundation shall be laid."

Isaiah 45:1-2 "Thus saith the Lord to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut;

I will go before thee, and make the crooked places straight; I will break in pieces the gates of brass, and cut in sunder the bars of iron:"

Ezra 5:13 "But in the first year of Cyrus king of Babylon the same king Cyrus made a decree to build this house of God."

God knew Cyrus would be king and His shepherd for a great purpose. It was all part of the ushering in of the time for the Messiah, Christ to come where regenerated gentiles could be kings in Christ in the house of God. The decree was the beginning of this time that would be detailed to Daniel and supported again in Revelation by Christ.

Hi Brother Carleton.

Thanks for replying.

I'm glad to hear you're doing fine and welcome back to the site!

We're doing fine as well.

You stated;

These seven weeks can be WEEKS OF DAYS and we know from Bible history that the years in rebuilding the holy city were very much so troublesome times. 62 more years after these seven WEEKS OF DAYS makes 69 weeks. At the end of the 69th week the Messiah came and was cut off mid-week in the 70th week.

I have ALL the 70 weeks as weeks of years, starting and ending on a specific day.

Beginning at "FROM THE GOING FORTH OF THE COMMANDMENT to restore and to build Jerusalem.

and ending at "unto the Messiah the Prince/King when Jesus "PRESENTED HIMSELF" as king

Full filing Zachariah 9:9

and a portion of Genesis 49:9-11.

"Judah is a lion's whelp: from the prey, my son, thou art gone up: he stooped down, he couched as a lion, and as an old lion; who shall rouse him up?

The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; AND UNTO HIM SHALL THE GATHERING OF THE PEOPLE BE.

BINDING HIS FOAL UNTO THE VINE, AND HIS ASS'S COLT unto the choice vine;..

Daniel 9:26 says AND AFTER THREESCORE AND TWO WEEKS SHALL MESSIAH BE CUT OFF.

( It doesn't say in the middle of the 70th week. )

Daniel 9:27 Say the prince that SHALL COME he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week:

That is the beginning of the 70th week.

( the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, )

That's yet future.

God bless you brother.

For example;

You state, the sun & the moon will not shine for a time;

Jesus is not literal speaking of sun, moon & the stars

Joseph dreams, Genesis 37:9 that the sun & the moon & the stars bow down & paid homage to him

Jacob interprets it, Genesis 37:10-12 representing him the sun, his mother the moon & his brothers the stars.

Rev 21:23 the Light represents the glory of the knowledge of God, that shines in the heart.

there is no more need of the light from mankind, God now speaks to us through His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, in which all things consist & have their being, that He, Christ might have the preeminence above all created things.

Friends, I ask you to consider all these Scriptures in the Light, which the Spirit gives to us in the Face of Jesus Christ.

In love & truth.

1 Corinthians 11:4 discusses a woman praying or prophesying with a head covering; hence the concept of silence is only perhaps in a formal service. It also may suggest that asking questions as a distraction isn't to happen rather than the concept of always remaining silent.

These verses also show the limit of a woman in regard to expression in worship settings since they are not to have authority over a man ( 1 Timothy 2:12). This fairly well mirrors the Old Testament where at least in the Book of Judges and a few other instances there were women acting as a Prophetess. There were no female priests at least with Judaism; these occurred with pagan rights quite often; however. It will be noted the consistency in messages at that time with God's overall plan in other texts as well as overall history. Judges 4:9 is an interesting passage with Deborah predicting victory in Sisera at the hands of a woman; perhaps that is one reason God used her. It is also said the lack of visions and available male prophets at the time may have necessitated God using her in this occasion.

There are cases where women would praise God in a prophetic manner; in Exodus 15 Moses started off with a victory song; and Miriam joined in later in verses 20-21. This shows they were in one accord.

If we survey what are the fruits or results of women who take on roles forbidden in scripture usually we see spurious doctrine manifest. 1 Samuel 15:23 reminds us that rebellion is as witchcraft. We see quite often the other half of the problem; namely men that are unwilling to take on the role as head of the household and the responsibilities in worship services. Thus we have a major part of the breakdown of society.

Women also need to fully take on teaching their children; guiding younger women as well as evangelizing to women in this generation; albeit perhaps leaving some more dangerous assignments to men. A woman with more intellegence can help men behind the scenes.

We are part of a church that still believes that a woman shouldn't teach nor usurp authority over a man. ( 1 Tim. 2:11,12). Women still have a role in teaching children and guiding the house. Just a proper order. In America we have lost some of these concepts through different "movements" and there is pressure for the church to follow along. Maybe that is also why we have some of the "gender identity" issues in America.

Friends

For the sake of your immortal soul, whom Jesus gave Himself for, don't continue to deceive yourselfs

In love & truth

Good evening brother Spencer, I hope all is well your way. Very hot here but no fires so far. :)

This scripture is the beginning of how some Amillennialism thinking Christians meditate on where we might be in time.

"Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times." Daniel 9:25 KJV

It was a very important time in Jewish history as they were carried into Babylon and by God's great Providence set free by Cyrus the King. His decree was momentous. By interpreting the seven weeks separate from the three score and two weeks as it is written it is a special period of time standing alone. These seven weeks can be weeks of days and we know from Bible history that the years in rebuilding the holy city were very much so troublesome times. 62 more years after these seven weeks of days makes 69 weeks. At the end of the 69th week the Messiah came and was cut off mid-week in the 70th week. The transgression being full in the 70th week. Approximately 3-1/2 weeks (37 years?) later in the spring was the beginning of destruction of the holy city which ended in the fall.

Part of this great mystery involves Herod the Great and he wanting to protect his kingdom and power and the spirit that enabled him was an antichrist spirit.

There are many scriptures that can point to this viewpoint with keeping all of the Gospel teachings without violence.

Thank you for the discussion!

Matthew 24:3-21.

"And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

The disciples asked Jesus 3 questions and he answered them in verse 15.

Verses 4-14 would be non signs of the end of the world. He says that in verse 6. "And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet."

And then he goes on with the beginning of these sorrows as mentioned in Matthew 24:8 until he gets to verses 14 and15.

Vs 14. "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Vs 15. "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by "DANIEL THE PROPHET, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

WHOSO READETH, LET HIM UNDERSTAND!!:

Jesus is diverting them back to Daniel 9:27 as the key to end time prophecy. The 70th week of Daniel.

"And he/Antichrist shall confirm the covenant with many FOR ONE WEEK: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease,)

The Great tribulation begins in the middle of the 70th week with Jesus describing Daniels prophecy as the key and details this event in Matthew 24:16-21.

Daniel 12:9-11 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed TILL THE TIME OF THE END.

Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the ABOMINATION THAT MAKETH DESOLATE set up, there shall be a (thousand two hundred and ninety days). 3.5 years!

Also see Revelation 12:14.

( time, and times, and half a time,)

Another way of saying 3.5 years!

The 70th week of Daniel is future.

God bless.

p2. Giannis Many who believe the pre-tribulation rapture theory will read things into verses to fit that belief and it throws off their timeline of Truth in the Lastdays prophecy.

You said "On the contrary at the 2nd coming huge catastrophes will be occurring on earth, millions will be killed by the antichrist, people will be scared to death for the things to come. The whole polital/economial system will collapse (the Babylon)"

(Lu. 21:25-26) You left out the next two verses ( Luke. 21:27-28) v27 "And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory" ( Mt. 24:30) "the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory" He comes here to (gather together) His elect ( Mt. 24:31) He is not riding a white horse to the earth here but we meet Him in the air, in the clouds the rapture ( 1 Thess. 4:15-17) The white horse is ( Rev. 19:11-16) TO THE EARTH!

This version in Luke is the same as ( Mt. 24:29-31) v29 "Immediately after the tribulation" This is the only verse in the Bible that tells us the Son of man (Jesus Christ) comes in the clouds AFTER the tribulation period but pre-tribulation rapture believers say this is the return on a white horse, it is not.

( 1 Thess. 4:15-17)

1) v16 The sound of a trumpet

2) v17 caught up (together) with them

3) v17 The Lord comes in the clouds

( Mt. 24:29-31)

1) v31 a sound of a (trumpet)

2) v31 they shall (gather together) His elect

3) v30 they shall see the (Son of man coming in the clouds)

( Rev. 19:11-16) v11 He is called Faithful and True. ( Mt. 24:30) He is called the Son of man

( Rev. 19:14) The armies which were in heaven follow Him from heaven to the earth on white horses ( Mt. 24:31) He comes in the clouds to gather together His elect.

These verses are showing us the #1 pre-tribulation rapture verse is in perfect alignment with ( Mt. 24:29-31) Immediately AFTER the tribulation.

We have to let the Scriptures speak for themselves Giannis.

Blessings to you, and all who seek Truth.

Christ 2nd Coming

Matt 24:3 " the disciples asks, what shall be the sign of Thy coming & the end of the world?

Matt 24 Jesus explains to His disciples the signs of His coming

Jesus is speaking to His disciples who are with Him in present tense. Verily I say unto you!

Matt 24:4 & said unto them, let no man deceive you Matt 24:15 when ye shall see the abomination of desolation

Matt 24:23 then if any man say unto you, lo here is Christ. Matt 24:25 Behold I have told you Matt 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you. Matt 24:33 when ye see all these things Matt 24:44 therefore be ye also ready

Matt 24:34,35

Verily I say unto you, this generation shall not pass away till all this things be fulfilled, Heaven & earth shall pass away but My word shall not pass away, This was the generation 2000 yrs ago that shall not pass away till all these things be fulfilled.

Matt 16:28 Mark 9:1 standing there with Him then, saw the Kingdom come in Power

Friends, Christ word out of His own mouth, which shall not pass away refutes all these words & beliefs concerning His 2nd Coming.

Hi Antipas.

Israel is God's elect and so is the Church both for different purposes.

If you are saying God is not through with Israel I also hold that view.

Here's more direct set of scriptures for the "Nation" of Israel.

Ezekiel 36:22-38.

Therefore say unto the "HOUSE" of Israel,

THUS SAITH THE LORD GOD; I DO NOT THIS FOR YOUR SAKES, O HOUSE OF ISRAEL BUT FOR MINE HOLY NAME'S SAKE, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.

AND I WILL SANCTIFY MY GREAT NAME, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; AND THE HEATHEN SHALL KNOW THAT I AM THE LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I SHALL BE SANCTIFIED IN YOU BEFORE THEIR EYES.

( God will restore the Nation Israel for his Name sake )

Vs 36:24 For I will take you from among the heathen, AND GATHER YOU OUT OF ALL COUNTRIES, and will bring you into your own land.

( God is going to gather them of ALL Countries!)

There has never been a gathering like this and this certainly not the Church! The Church never possessed a Land.

Vs 36:26-28. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

AND YE SHALL DWELL IN THE LAND THAT I GAVE TO YOUR FATHERS; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

There's no way to spiritualize this as to say this is the Church and God is going to rule in our hearts.

And the Spirit remains absent in them today so it didn't happen at the cross.

Again! Here's Paul pointed forward looking for salvation for his Kinsman of the flesh in Romans 11:1

"I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

Conclusion;

Romans 11:25-27.

This is after the cross!

More to come at a later date

God bless.

Giannis thank you for replying to this post. I was just wondering if you read this post Giannis? I think I have shown very clearly that I believe Jesus Christ (the Son of man) comes After the tribulation period in the clouds ( Mt. 24:29-31) to gather together His elect, while we are at the marriage supper of the Lamb in the air or in heaven, the wrath of God is being poured out on the disobedient non-believers who were left on the earth. THEN when the marriage supper has ended Jesus comes back riding a white horse and we come back with Him. Thats 2 completely different times and the space in between them is the wrath of God happening on the earth. Jesus comes back on the white horse to end the wrath of God and start His 1000year reign on the earth.

You said of (Lu. 21:34-36) "How is it possible that Jesus warns us not to be in a state of pleasure and caring of this life when in the great tribulation christians will suffer, persecuted and get killed for their faith in God". I would have to disagree with your interpretation of that verse Giannis. Jesus is warning us ((not to become apart of)) that evil world during that time period. ( 1 Jn. 2:15-17) v36 "WATCH"

(Lu. 21:34-36) v35 "For as a (snare) shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth" The word (snare) is #3803; it means a trap (as fastened by a noose or notch) a trick or statagem. The word [statagem] means (A scheme or maneuver designed to achieve an objective, as in surprising an enemy or deceving someone)

It sounds like there will be great deception, unseen tricks, or traps set by the evil during this time period.

You said "Please pay attention to v36, that ye may be accounted worthly to escape all these things that shall come to pass"

you left out the rest of the verse, it says "and to stand before the Son of man"

The Son of man comes in the clouds to gather together His elect in ( Mt. 24:29-31) IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION.

What will be escaped will be the wrath of God.

see p2

Hi brother Giannis

Remember: the disciples questioned two things with JESUS: Matt. 24:3

1 - what shall be the SIGN of thy coming?

2 - and of the END of the world?

We cannot forget the prophetic message, and the warnings of our Lord JESUS, about the two above signs, as follow: Matt.24:4-8

1- Pre-tribulation Period - Beginning of sorrows

(My view: We are already living/ we already entered in this period. I'm awaked.

JESUS listed seven terrible events as the beginning of sorrows, and they are the signs of the END of the world, and JESUS's coming:What signs?

1- Appearance and manifestation of false Christs/false messiah ( John 5:43-47 combined with Revelation 13:11-a false lamb);

2- Wars and rumours of war ; (fulfilling LITERALLY);

3- nation shall rise against nation ; (in process / processing)

4- and kingdom against kingdom; (Kingdom of GOD X Kingdom of Devil - Rev.11:15 and 12:7-12- Take a look.) ;

5- famines ; (in process / it's processing)

6- pestilences ; (more recent - Coronavirus-COVID 19. Global cases

Updated Jul 18. confirmed 767,972,197 - deaths 6,950,642)

and

7- earthquakes in divers places. (more recent - Turkey)

JESUS said: 8-all these are the beginning of sorrows.

There will not be any gap between the period of sorrows(Pre-Tribulation)and the beginning of Tribulation, this will be sequential:

2 -THE BEGINNING OF THE TRIBULATION PERIOD

JESUS said: Matt.24:9-16

9 Then shall they(they whom?)deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake

10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

11 And many false prophets shall rise(false preachers of GOD's Word (sects, false movements gospel, dead churches-Rev.3:1,etc.)and shall deceive many.

12 And because iniquity shall abound(consequence of the apostate environment),the love of many shall wax cold.

13 But he that shall ENDURE unto the END,the same shall be saved

But the worst comes

how does a frog capture it's prey?...

Hello Oseas and Jimbob

Luke 21:34-36,

"34And take heed to yourselves (believers), lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.

35For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.

36Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man."

A few points on the above.

1. How is it possible that Jesus warns us not be in a state of pleasure and carings of this life when in the great tribulation christians will suffer, persecuted and get killed for their faith in God? How is it possible to be involved in matters of this life when christians will not accept the beast's mark and eventually won't be able even to survive in such conditions?

2. Please pay attention to verse 36, "... that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass..."

3. I have read in older posts that God will preserve us like He did with Hebrews in Egypt. But at that time they were all concetrated at a place, the Land of Goshen. In the future we will be dispersed throughout the whole earth, it is a different thing altogether.

To me it is clear that the time when Jesus comes to take His Bribe is at a different time from His 2nd coming on earth. The condition of the world in those two cases will be completely different.

At the rapture the world is the ususal normal world. People will be involved with their everyday life, not fearing for what comes next, unprepared. Why? Because life will be as usual. Matthew 24:36-40.

On the contrary at the 2nd coming huge catastrophies will be occuring on earth, millions will be killed by the antichrist, people will be scared to death for the things to come. The whole polital/economical system will collapse(the Babylon), Luke 21:25-26 and events on Revelation

2 different conditions on earth, 2 diferent events.

GBU

Sorry I meant Hebrews 8:8-13, not 9:8-12.

Hi Antypas

The verses you stated from Jeremiah are also used by Paul in Hebrews 9:8-12. Paul considers this new covenant to Israel that Jeremiah is taking about is the New Testament that God introduced firstly to Hebrews and then to the rest of the world. But Jews didn't receive Jesus, and consequently God, so their House was left abandoned by God. Until when? Until they repend for crucifying Jesus and ask for Him. When is this going to occur? At the very end. Paul in Rom 11:25-27 says that they will be saved after the fullness of the nations will come in (the salvation).

So who are the elect now? Romans 8:30-32,

"30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of GOD'S ELECT? It is God that justifieth."

Please pay attention to the above verse 33.

God's intention when creating the Hebrew nation through Abraham was not to have a superior race than the rest who will conquer the world. His aim is to create a nation which will preserve the faith to the true God, through which at the proper time the Savior would erect to sacrifice Himself for the salvation of all people. In God's mind was the whole mankind not just a race.

So He established the church on Pentecost

Ephessians 2:14-17,

"14For he is our peace, who hath made both (Jews and gentiles) one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

GBU"

Antipas :

A commenter quoted Matthew 23:37-39, I pointed out vs.39 dispelled any inference it was

everlasting or endless.

Very good thank you Ronald I understand now.

Thanks!