Bible Discussion Replies PAGE 221

With regards to the Word of God , I have always believed that the Word of God is also signified by the sword . It's an interesting study if you fancy it , that sharp two edged sword that will judge the nation's , the sword of the Lord and of Gideon , if you have a concordance you might want to look at the occasion's when the sword is mentioned , especially in Revelation and Ezekiel . Don't forget that sword that was placed at the gate of Eden . I believe that the Word is symbolised more than one thing , the obvious one being the Word made flesh which is of course Christ , I also believe that the sword often represents the Word of the Lord . Can anyone think of anything else in the Bible that might signify the Word of God ?

Hi David0921. I can see where that statement from you ("the Bible is the very WORD OF GOD HIMSELF") can be misleading. Some could read it as 'the Bible, which is truly God's Word, is God'. I read (by paraphrasing), ' the Bible is truly God's Word, spoken/authored by Him and given to us by Him (or Himself)'.

Maybe your strict emphasis on the words within the KJV being wholly God's Word (the exact Words spoken by God) rather than just a very good translation work into English, may color folks' understanding of your statement. We've discussed this aspect with the KJV before, & we find that our differences lie there, but to state that from our discussions & your other input, I believe that I've understood your statement in question, as you've intended.

n angel visits the priest Zacharias in a temple. Zacharias is married to an infertile woman named Elizabeth. The angel proclaims that Zacharias and his wife will bear a child who they shall name John. Zacharias explains to the angel that he is an elderly man. In response the angel simply says Zacharias will be unable to speak prior to the birth of his son.

Gabriel, yet another angel, appears to Mary who is wed to Joseph. Mary is told she too will bear a son who shall be called Jesus. This child will also become known as "The Son of the Highest". Mary decides to visit Elizabeth and when she does the unborn John moves within his mother's womb. Gabriel assures Mary that the Holy Spirit will pay her a visit. Mary sings great praises of the Lord.

Zacharias and Elizabeth are urged by many to name their new son after his father. They follow through with the original declaration and call him John. As promised, Zacharias is once again able to speak. In doing so he predicts that his son will bear the title of "The Prophet of the Highest."

Thank you Mr. Spencer for those verses.

I believe those verses and others that I quoted in the totality of my discussion with GiGi on this subject are consistent with and support what I have said about the Bible, the WORD of God and its relationship to our worship of the LORD Jesus Christ, eternal God Himself.

Thank you very much Chris.

GiGi,

I think I explained exactly what I meant in my response to you and Adam. And if you go back and read the entirety of my comments to you in our discussion, I quoted numerous verses that I believe support exactly what I said and what I meant.

I am disappointed in your characterization of what I said. But I stand by what I said.

And like you suggested, I am now going to leave it there.

May God richly bless you.

Adam,

You quoted my words and then stated what "I meant". And what you said "I meant" is a distortion of what I said and what I meant.

But I said what I meant and believe that is what the Bible declares. And I quoted many scriptures in the totality of my discussion with GiGi, which I believe support what I said.

If I am incorrect in anything I say about what I believe the Bible is teaching, I welcome correction.

It is exceptionally serious business to say "thus says the LORD" when the LORD has not said.

David,

Here is your exact quote from your post yesterday.

"The Bible alone and in its entirety IS THE VERY WORD OF GOD HIMSELF (in the original autographs). (Your caps)

So both Adam and I take this statement at face value that you are equating the Scriptures with God, especially Jesus who in john 1 is called THE WORD OF GOD.

If you do not believe this statement as we interpret it, then please explain what you really meant. If you did mean your statement to mean as we thought it meant, then please cite Scriptures that state this belief. For me, if you truly do believe that All of Scriptures, and each word in it, are in reality, God Himself in Jesus, the Word of God, then you are speaking of making what God created into an idol.

Hi David, i quoted your words and you replied and asked where you said that. Its now obvious that youre making a distinction between Gods word or word of God and the Bible. To me and many others its the same.

Youre claiming its bad for us to question what you said. I hope you are being genuine and not playing us. But review what you said. Whats the difference to you?

David.

Part 2.

This reminds me of John 6:60 when

many actually stopped following Jesus that day he said here in the Gospel of John 6:48-58.

Jesus three times identifies Himself as that spiritual bread ( John 6:35, 48, 51).

And twice He emphasizes faith (a spiritual action) as the key to salvation:

"My Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life" (verse 40)

and "Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life" (verse 47).

Jesus then compares and contrasts Himself to the manna that Israel had eaten in the time of Moses: "Your ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness, yet they died. But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which anyone may eat and not die" John 6:49-50.

The words I have spoken to you-they are full of the Spirit and life" ( John 6:63). Those who misunderstood Jesus and were offended by His talk about eating His flesh and drinking His blood were stuck in a physical mindset, ignoring the things of the Spirit. They were concerned with getting another physical meal, so Jesus uses the realm of the physical to teach a vital spiritual truth.

At the Last Supper, Jesus gives a similar message.

We are to proclaim the Lord's death until he comes"

1 Corinthians 11:26.

Jesus was speaking metaphorically about His flesh and blood and hold that the bread and wine are symbolic of the spiritual bond created with Christ through faith.

Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God'" ( Matthew 4:4, quoting Deuteronomy 8:3). The implication is that the bread is God's Word and that is what sustains us. Jesus is called the Word of God who came to earth and was made flesh ( John 1:14). The Word of God is also the Bread of Life ( John 6:48).

God bless.

Who are the Isrealites today?

Who are the Edomites today?

Hi David.

After we go through the bible we come to the last book and it's called The Revelation of Jesus Christ.

This is the conclusion of what's written the other 65 books.

Here's the scope and purpose of John's writings

In John 20:30-31. "Many other signs therefore Jesus also performed in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; but these have been written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name.

John's purpose was to introduce the readers of his gospel to Jesus Christ, establishing Who Jesus is (God in the flesh) and what He did, all with the sole aim of leading them to embrace the saving work of Christ.

JOHN 1:1

The Greek word translated "Word" in this passage is Logos.

In that day they understood the usage of the term. Word/Logos.

John is introducing Jesus with a word or a term that both his Jewish and Gentile readers would have been familiar with.

John is in a sense pointing them back to the Old Testament where the Logos or "Word" of God is associated with the personification of God's revelation.

In the Old Testament the "word" of God is often personified as an instrument for the execution of God's will.

John is pointing them back to the Old Testament.

The term Logos brought forth the idea of a "mediating principle" between God and the world in that day.

But John goes beyond the familiar concept of Logos that his Jewish and Gentile readers would have had as a mediating principle and uses Logos to present Jesus as God's perfect revelation of Himself in the flesh.

In John 14:8-9 we see the word of God in the flesh representing what the accurate Logos/Words of the old testament said who would come.

This is what Jesus is telling Phillip.

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

In this regard I believe you are right.

GB.

GiGi,

I will say to you what I said to Adam.

Show me where I have said what you and Adam seem to be suggesting. That is that "Jesus IS the Bible" or that "the Bible IS Jesus".

What I have said is that the Bible (in the original autographs) are the WORDS of God, Himself. Not the WORDS of Men. And that "worshiping God" is in the first instance is "to be obedient to the WORD of God, the Bible".

And you are now suggesting that is idolatry? And that I am, to use Adam's words, "worshipping a physical Book i.e. pen and paper"?

That is nonsense and a complete distortion of what I have said.

Hi Jeff. Yes, in Revelation 12:10 we read, "And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren IS CAST DOWN, which accused them before our God day and night." However, in trying to piece together Satan's former position in Heaven or on Earth now & all that transpired in-between, is not always easy as I would relegate teaching on this doctrine (of Satan) amongst the many that the Bible gives sparse information & therefore cannot be fully understood. Therefore, in reading about Satan & his angels (the ones that followed him after he was booted out of God's Presence), often brings conflicts in our understanding & agreement.

For example, we know that Satan was already with sin & banished from God's Presence right at the time of the creation of man & woman ( Genesis 3:14,15, where Satan had used an animal to tempt man to also become like him & his quest to be like God). And Ezekiel 28:12-15, of Satan who infected the King of Tyrus to also usurp the Throne of God (see also Isaiah 14:12-15, where Satan also used the Babylonian king). Yet, we read that Satan still had access to Heaven, whereas Revelation 12:7-9 tells us that only after the "war in Heaven", Satan & his angels lost the battle, & was cast down to the Earth for all time.

So, in my cautious understanding, Satan no longer has access into Heaven, though in some way he still manages to bring accusation before God against those who belong to Jesus. But Satan & his work were judged at the Cross ( John 12:31), and though his work continues to tempt & blind the hearts of men since then, he knows his time is short ( Revelation 12:12), that in a future day he will be confined in the abyss ( Revelation 20:2,3), & at the end of the Millennium period, be locked away forever in the Lake of Fire ( Revelation 20:10). This is how I try to piece it all together - though not without conjecture or error.

David

I have prayed for you and your family today. I am looking forward to hearing how God is blessing you, Kirstie, and your family.

Thanks Adam.

I just cannot find anywhere in Scripture that says that the words of Scripture are Jesus Himself. You have challenged David on this asking for Scripture references to show what he has presented in this thread concerning the Jesus = Scriptures, being the same thing. Thank you for that. I know that David has a very high regard for Scriptures, which we all should have, but his thinking totters on the edge of idolatry. I get where he is coming from, but cannot agree with him.

Also, thank you for saying that what I posted is "normal" thinking on this topic. I was surprised that David made it into a battle, it seems. But I feel we can move past this sub-topic from what Richard originally posted and what I posted in response to him.

I will be praying for David today. I hope that the Lord will richly bless him with clear insight concerning who He truly is as I pray that I receive the same blessing as well. We all can pray for the Holy Spirit to refine our notion of Who our God is in His Being and in the Persons of the Godhead.

Adam,

Where did I say that "God is the Bible"?

I said "the Bible is the very WORD OF GOD HIMSELF". In other words, God is the AUTHOR of the Bible. And when we are reading the Bible, we are reading the word of God Himself.

I'm not sure why, but somehow you seem to have great difficulty reading many of my comments carefully and accurately.

I believe I've made myself clear, and have quoted the scripture passages which support my belief in prior comments.

If you do not believe that every word in the Bible is the Word of God Himself, that is between you and the LORD.

I have no problem with you stating your disagreement with anything I say. But please quote me accurately in the process.

Thank you Adam.

>The Bible Alone and in its Entirety IS THE VERY WORD OF GOD HIMSELF

Strange ideas coming from you, David. What are your sources in the Bible that says God is the Bible?

Do you think He's the KJV, or NIV, Message, and other translations too like Reina Valera or childrens' illustrated Bibles?

And when you mention He's the Bible, do you mean only a physical Bible or digital Bibles too. Is He the ink of text itself on the page, or the paper, or He's a leather bound cover? What about the Bible came in plastic wrapping with a sticker and UPC code- also God? A paper sack the clerk gives you after you buy it? Where do you draw the line as to what physical or intangible things you consider "God" and what are the scriptures that say God is manifested in physical objects? Is God the apocrypha, too?

>But we cannot separate the worship of God from the Word of God.

Says who? You? Do you think the Bible says that somewhere, if so, please cite all your sources. Have you prayed to God and asked Him if its true or false that He's a book?

What GiGi wrote is totally normal, and what you wrote does not sound like it comes from the Bible, but lets see what scriptures you come up with to defend this idea. God bless.

Is the devil actually in heaven right now?

Isn't there a verse that talks about where the devil is cast down out of heaven?

Thanks!

when you are wide awake while the world is sound asleeping to afriad what might show up while your dreaming nobody sees you nobody will believe you.every day you try pick up all the piceies GOD ONLY KNOWS WHAT YOU'VE BEEN THROGH God only knows how it's killing you and there a kind of love that God only knows!Love you guys. this is acutlly a song on yotube look it up you will also love there channel is For King And Country the song is God only Knows.

after the sabbath day 3 women bought sweet spices so that they could anoint Jesus early in the morning they went to the sepulchre and when they where there the stone was rolled away and then they enterd into the sepulchre then they saw a man sitting on the right side, clothed in a long white garment

and then he said that they should tell his disciples and peter that they should go to galilee to see Jesus and then they went and told them but they did not believe them but still went and then Jesus said to them Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. and then when he was done talking he went to heaven and sat on the right side of God

GiGi,

Thanks for bailing me out. I had heard the word before but forgot it and did not have the time to look it up. I was hoping someone with some knowledge of Hebrew would share it, so thank you.

As for your question, I don't have an answer for that. I'm not sure that the Bible gives us a definitive answer so I'm unsure. My thoughts are that it was an actual snake that Satan used as an instrument of temptation. But again, I don't know!

God Bless!!!

Thanks Gigi.

Thank You.

further more pt 4

you state "Why do we say that sanctification makes us blameless, not faultless?" if "we" includes all the writer that you quoted here, than I have serious doubts of their salvation, for Jesus expressly states that "ye must be born-again to enter the kingdom of heaven, stating it twice to Nicodemus, which strengthens His statement. Verily, Verily John 3:3-6

your statement goes on; Because the Grace of God working in us does not make us infallible. Sin has so perverted our moral and spiritual powers that we shall never in this present life be free from the infirmities of human nature."

Then they are still living in their old nature & have not been regenerated unto the new creature, created in the knowledge of Him who created him.

So all these quotes are just a high profession, but has not become a possession of the Substance, who is Christ.

Hi,

can someone remind me how many brothers were there total siblings of Goliath the Gittite

and what were there names

how tall were they each

how old were they supposedly if any data on that.

thanks..

Hello David,

It is true that words are intellectual abstract ideas. This does not mean that they are true or untrue. God's words are true words and His truth endures. The words of Scriptures are understood by our mind because they are not concrete physical things like our Lord became when He incarnated Himself. Before that time He was a concrete Being as the second person of the Godhead, but not physical in nature, but spiritual. Even though a spiritual Being, God has a substance about Him, but it is not a physical substance but a spiritual substance that we do not comprehend. But thoughts and words and feelings and decisions of the will are not concrete physical things, but abstract, immaterial things. I was not insulting God or His word by saying this. I was just explaining the difference between Jesus the Son of God from the words He spoke. I value the Bible above all other ideas I can understand with my mind and hide in my heart. But I value the Godhead above all things. He originates the words we come to know, but His words of Scripture are not equal to nor the same as the Being of the Godhead anymore that the healings and miracles Jesus did are the same as the Being of Jesus Christ. They originate from Him. he is the cause and His words and actions are the result of what has been conceived in Him.

David, I do not wish to continue posting on this matter because I think that we both have explained our thinking pretty comprehensively so far. Have a good evening.

yes you do , Latonya!

I am doing well. I love spring and summer time. The sun really helps my day to day enjoyment of this beautiful world and the wonder of growing things!

I am so happy to pray for you, Latonya.

Dear Heavenly Father, we thank You today for bringing Latonya safely through this past year! You have blessed her with continued life and a new heart that her body accepts. We thank You for giving her strength to return to work part-time. We ask that in the name of Jesus You will increase her strength and ability to work a bit more each day. We ask that You cause her day to day needs to be amply fulfilled. We ask that her financial obligations be satisfied and that she will have some money to save for the future as well. We ask that Latonya will grow in grace given by You and come to know You more truly and deeply. Amen.

Hello Dgjot,

My thoughts are that we do need to be wise about those who call themselves believers and yet live outwardly sinful lives along the lines mentioned in the Corinthians verses you quoted. Their behavior tarnishes the witness of Christ through the church. If stubbornly unrepentant they put themselves in the category of the devil and his angels who believe in Christ and yet tremble because they do not wish to live for God. They are courting the possibility of apostasy.

Also, about the condition of the world around us, my thoughts are that this is not the most evil time in history. It may seem that way because the western world is becoming more and more disobedient to God and the Gospel of Christ, more and more scoffers and mockers who openly challenge the righteous living of believers with their flaunting of sinful living. The world has been cruel, idolatrous, revilers of God and His truth since before the flood and shortly after (think Babel) and all throughout history (think of the persecution of Christian under Roman rule, the slaughter of the Islamic takeovers of countries in the 700's, and the enslavement of so many groups of people throughout time.

We just notice these things more because it is happening before our very eyes. There are many areas of the world where the Gospel is advancing in leaps and bounds with new believers bring added daily in great numbers, but in the western world,

true faithful Christian people are declining and the believers in these cultures are getting more and more worldly.

We should still desire to share the gospel with others because it is what we are called to do from Scripture. If few accept the Gospel, that is no reason to be discouraged, both elect and non-elect need to hear the Gospel. God is the one who brings anyone to faith in Him, so we share the Gospel and leave the conversion to God. Those who refuse the Gospel may come to Christ at a later time or never at all. God knows who are to become His.