Bible Discussion Replies PAGE 234

Paul was still sinning after he was saved.....Simply b/c Satan had sown a Tare in his heart and mind making him sin.... Romans 7....If i do something that i do not consent unto, its not i that does it but sin that dwells in my members.....Jesus had forewarned us that this was gonna happen to anybody that had been impregnated with the good seed.....Satan was gonna come and sow a Tare an evil seed in us resulting in a warfare with in us.....Paul said when i wd do good evil is present with me....Which was making Paul sin.....With my mind i serve the law of God but with my flesh the law of sin....Paul had become 2 ppl in his mind.....1 good and 1 evil....1 wd be taken and 1 wd be left....His thorn in the flesh was the Tare that satan had put there.....Thats y God wd not remove it even tho Paul sought GOD 3 times.....Paul wd have to endure to the end of this warfare in heaven....Which was in his mind his thorn in the flesh.....But no condemnation to them in Christ Jesus.....

......We see another picture of this warfare in Rev. 12:5.....Satan wants to destroy this woman and her Child....(Paul and his anointing ) Simply b/c satan knows that this manchild which is the H.G. The anointing that spirit of truth is gonna reprove this world of sin and righteousness and Judgement......Thats y Paul was saying O Wretched man that i am.....Paul cd not control this Tare Satans seed that he describes as a thorn in the flesh.....Paul was sinning against his WILL.....thus no condemnation.

........ Rev 22:11.....He that is unjust let him be unjust still and he that is filthy let him be filthy still....Thats Satans seed the TARE that is within us. Warring against our minds...Violence in heaven.....Kingdom against Kingdom.

.......He that is righteous let him be righteous still ....And he that is Holy let him be Holy still..... But this is the wheat Jesus's good seed The H.G. that is at war with the Tares.....Thats y we must endure to the end 1 will be taken and 1 will be left....GB

Thank you for that explanation Chris.

But I think we understand Romans 4 in regards to Abraham differently.

First let me say my understanding is that the translation from the Hebrew to English here could have been done somewhat better; but I do not feel qualified to get into that.

Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth{belief BECAUSE God has saved us}on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith{that is Christ's faith, Christ Himself} is counted for righteousness.

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the FAITH OF JESUS CHRIST, even we have believed{belief BECAUSE God has saved us}in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the FAITH OF CHRIST, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

All True Believers throughout time are justified, i.e. saved by the faithfulness of Christ; NOT OUR FAITH. Our faith is a GIFT of God and is the RESULT of our Salvation and Justification; it is not the CAUSE nor the REASON.

And that was the case for Abraham and all Old Testament True Believers.

hi Gigi

ok, would you please give me scriptural references to back this train of thought of yours up.

in love & truth

I believe David0921, that you have understood me correctly to a point. However, I'm not saying that Israel's salvation (a yet appointed time in the future), those who were faithful to the Lord was based on their works (i.e. obedience to the Law, sacrificial offerings, etc.), but that salvation would come to them (looking forward) by the merits of Christ's Death, just as for us post-Cross.

When I said 'works based', I didn't mean that they would be saved by their law-keeping, etc., for nothing they or we could ever do, would secure redemption. They only did what was required of them by God (which was based solely on works yet should have caused them to cleave to God trusting in Him alone). Were they saved by their works? If they were, then there was no need for Jesus' Coming. But those works (obedience, sacrifice) brought them into a standing before God, where the Blood of Christ could retrospectively be applied to them; these who had no knowledge of such a Redeemer, but only knowing sin & cast upon God's Mercies for the covering of that sin until their redemption (salvation). Hebrews 9:15, 'the called only received the promise'.

I don't know whether that explains it better, but your quote, "Salvation is by Grace alone" seems to not take into account what takes place before salvation is granted: how a person's life is directed, how & when the Gospel comes to him, or the drawing in by the Father ( John 6:44). For us, we don't consider this as Works, only when we try to add to or replace the Grace of God. Jews weren't adding to their future salvation; they only did what was required of them; and God knowing their hearts would apply the True Sacrifice. See Romans 4:1-5: righteousness that was imputed to Abraham. Why? Because he believed God, having hope, trusting His Word, without calling upon his works. Likewise, to all OT Israel who placed their trust & hope in God were marked for salvation, without works - unlike those who disobeyed or trusted in their works.

Ephesians 2:8-13

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9) NOT OF WORKS, lest any man should boast.

10)For we are his workmanship, CREATED IN CHRIST JESUS "UNTO GOOD WORKS", which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

11)Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12) That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

13)But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off ARE MADE NIGH BY THE BLOOD OF CHRIST.

THIS IS MARVELOUS SAYING! HERE'S WHERE YOU SEE THE CIRCUMCISION OF THE HEART AS MENTIONED IN ROMANS 2:26-29.

"Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?

And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?

For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. ( In these verses Jew is not mentioned to describe an ethnic group but rather to describe the performance and seal of the cutting away the flesh.)

WE GENTILES ARE BROUGHT NEAR BY THE BLOOD OF CHRIST, NOT CIRCUMCISION OF THE FLESH THAT RESPRESENTS THE JEW AND ALL OF THEIR WRITTEN ARTICLES WHEREBY THEY WERE COMMANDED. ( We're joined by the promise given to Abraham

Galatians 3:14-18.

Galatians 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: FOR IF THERE HAD BEEN A LAW GIVEN WHICH COULD HAVE GIVEN LIFE, VERILY RIGHTEOUSNESS SHOULD HAVE BEEN BY THE LAW.

God bless.

Romans 7.

Part 2.

Romans 7:8-10. But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.

For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.

WE ALL AGREE THE LAW IS HOLY, SO WHAT IS IT ABOUT THE LAW THAT SLEW PAUL?

Romans 7:11-14

For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. BUT SIN, THAT IT MIGHT APPEAR SIN, WORKING DEATH IN ME BY THAT WHICH IS GOOD; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

PAUL IS SAYING THESE HOLY COMMANDMENTS EXPOSED HIM.

THAT HE MIGHT APPEAR SINFUL WORKING DEATH IN HIM BY THAT WHICH IS GOOD. ( The commandments.)

Also see 2 Corinthians 3:7-9

Vs 7:15-28.For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: FOR TO WILL IS PRESENT WITH ME; BUT HOW TO PERFORM THAT WHICH IS GOOD I FIND NOT.

WHAT DID PAUL FIND THAT IS GOOD? (THE COMMANDMENTS)

COULD HE PERFORM THEM? ( NO HE SAYS.)

19-23.) For the good that I would I do not:

but the evil which I would not, that I do.

Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members

Conclusion;

Romans 7:24-25.

Romans 7

Part 1.

Romans 7:1-6

Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?

For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.

So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

WE HAVE BEEN FREED FROM THE CURSE OF THE LAW WORKED IN OUR MEMBERS TO BRING FRUIT UNTO DEATH.

BEFORE WHILE UNDER THE LAW AND DOING THE LAW MAY HAVE BEEN GRIEVOUS TO US IN THE FLESH.

NOW we do what we do with a new heart and by the Spirit of God that wars against the flesh.

7:6But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

This is a heart change taken place.

Before we didn't have a heart that wanted to please God, and we were without strength.

Now we have a heart that desires perfection but a sinful flesh that is warring against the new heart.

In addition,

Lets in your own words sum this up

1. your calling God a liar, unable to perform His Word

2. your placing God's word in contradiction to God's word

3. your adding & taking away from God's word Rev22:18,19

4. & your statement contradicts itself

In concern for you immortal souls, where do you & your amen brother stand before a Holy God, who is zealously jeolous over His Word?

I sincerely pray friend, that God would have mercy upon you, that you may find a place of repentance for yielding your members to the wicked one, for only by his influence could such heresy be brought forth.

In love & truth

Yes, I believe that too Ashley. We will be given new bodies. On this matter, I find that 1 Corinthians chapter 15 is very helpful. To help you, please take particular note of these verses: vv12-14 (since Christ rose from the grave, so will we); vv42,53 (we died in corrupt bodies, we will be raised in bodies not given to corruption); v49 (our present image/being conforms to life on Earth, but in the resurrection, our being will conform to life without sin, decay or death).

So yes, those who die in the Lord will receive new bodies (bodies transformed from our original bodies on Earth, or from what was left of it) & will be even like our Lord Jesus exists (i.e. Jesus Who died as a Man, resurrected in His Body & translated into Heaven to be at His Father's right Hand). 1 John 3:2 gives us a little glimpse of this: "Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is." Here, the Apostle John writes to God's children; that the change that will occur to us & in us will be so dramatic, that we cannot imagine it. But one thing we know, that when He comes for us in the resurrection & rapture, we will be changed & we will become as He is: pure from all the limitations & corruption of this earthly body, given a resurrection body as Jesus has, & fully outfitted for eternal life in holiness & with our Lord. How this transformation translates into a Heavenly life or life on Earth with Jesus in rulership, has been debated. The Lord knows - we must nevertheless be ready & looking for His Coming.

Frankie,

Pt. 2.

Our risen bodies will be the same bodies we had before we died, but will by without the sinful nature and also glorified by the Father to be able to inhabit heaven with Jesus. When we are in heaven, we will physically see Jesus face to face with our physical eyes. But our body will be without corruption, immortal, and far more glorious than it was made to be in this life. We cannot really understand just how that will be like, as Paul said, but we will be like Jesus.

Hello Frankie,

It seems that you have confused some doctrinal points in your explanations.

It is the Holy Spirit who lives in us, the third person of the Godhead. He is also everywhere present at once. Jesus is in heaven sitting at the right hand of the Father. He is not just Spirit as He remains both God and Man forever. He has a physical body, even as the Resurrected One, that He showed to the apostles when He appeared to them. He ascended to heaven in a physical body and at His ascension the angels said that He will return to earth in the same way, bodily with the same resurrection body He showed to the apostles. It is a physical body that can be touched, can eat, drink.

The Godhead planned this from before creation, that the Son would take on Himself forever a full human nature, body, soul, and spirit that does not take the place of His divine nature. Both natures exist together in the one person of Jesus Christ, and this is a permanent union of God and Man, for He is forever our High Priest, which is a human who intercedes for other humans.

this plan is remarkable and an unfathomable mystery in how the Son of God who is God can also take on humanity and be both God and Man forever.

The Scriptures say that Jesus is with us by the indwelling Holy Spirit, because, although there are three distinct persons in the Godhead, they are One Being. So if one has the Spirit within, then also the Father and the Son is within us because the Being of God cannot be divided.

Also, the Scriptures are clear that the second coming of our Lord is a physical bodily coming that will be visible to every eye.

Also, our resurrection will be like Jesus'. He was raised in the same body that died on the cross, but was glorified in His human body by the Father. He did not get a new body, but the one He had before He died was made alive and also transformed to be glorified forever. Our bodies will be raised like Jesus' body was raised, miraculously being given life and wholeness.

Page 2. Bro. Dan.

Or the other verse, "He that committeth sin is of the devil": if anyone professing to be a Christian commits even one sin, he doesn't actually belong to God (i.e. his salvation is spurious), but belongs to Satan. So Bro. Dan, if I take these verses as you say should be read, then I don't see this as a "wake up call to all Christians that we can't keep sinning", rather a clear affirmation that if we do commit even one sin, we would be hypocrites by calling ourselves 'Christian', when in fact we are actually children of the Devil.

So here is no wake up call, but a condemnation until this 'hypocrite' gets real with God & stops committing sins, even one sin. Is this how you read it brother? Because I'm having a difficult time understanding these verses as you shared, wondering when does a person actually become a 'true' Christian? Maybe this belief lends support to those who believe that salvation is only given at the Last Day of Judgement & so it seems unlikely that most of us will make it through. I hope that I haven't misunderstood you about those verses - if I have I apologize & seek clarification. Blessings.

Page 1.

Bro. Dan. Am I "grasping for ways to explain away the TRUE MEANING of this very simple verse!?" Maybe it is not your desire to want to know more about what the original languages affirm rather to just accept the Word as presented in English. I confess that I don't often refer to the original languages, but I do when I detect that there could be a misunderstanding to what I'm reading and what other Scriptures may be saying, or even what I'm seeing in my own life or around me. Of course, not being conversant in Greek, & only having tools with me to help me in this regard, I admit that I could be wrong in my understanding of the explanation in Greek - another who is proficient in the language would need to assist us further.

Leaving that matter aside, the verses you shared state, "Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not". Let's accept that verse as given & read. So if we commit even one sin, here is sufficient proof that we are not abiding in Christ. And of course, it must be also true that Jesus is not abiding in us, for how can One so Holy have communion & reside in one that lacks holiness, having sin. Onto Page 2.

Chris,

I still read in what you are describing as a significant difference in the Salvation of Old Testament believers from that of New Testament Believers in that Old Testament Believers somehow dredged up some kind of faith within themselves that God recognized, despite their DEADNESS as described in Romans 3 and other passages.

If this is not what you are suggesting, you have my apology for misunderstanding your words.

But I maintain that if we entertain a Salvation that is in any way based upon our works, we do not have the Salvation of the Bible. That was true in the Old Testament time and it is true today. And that is not a path I want to consider walking down, even in the slightest.

Remember the man in Numbers that picked up a few sticks. That should be in the forefront of our mind when we are thinking about the Nature of Salvation and the Gospel we follow and declare.

hi David,

I've read some of your writing, can not agree with most of it, I pray that you seek to continue to grow in meekness & humility, with a teachable spirit.

Psalm 25:9 James 4:8 2Thessalonians 2:10 a love for the Truth, has brought me out of being deceived & keeps me from being decevied. Jesus said John 7:17 as I actually put these previous 3 Scriptures into practices, in daily everyday ordinary life experiences, I have come the know the doctrine of it, its not like before "a highmindedness, an airy knowledge without the power, a profession without the possession", but an personal experiential knowledge of God's Spirit of Grace within my heart. He desires this for all, but because it comes in such a low & meekly appearance people reject it, they don't care to stoop so low & be a bond servant to all through Christ, 1John 2:6

The Lord blessing on you

In love & truth

Chapter Six Verse Twenty One is my favorite and a great source of comfort.

Yes Adam. The True Believer will have an ernest and ongoing desire to do the will of God, to do good works, to be obedient to God's Law, the Bible, both in doctrine and in practice. And we will have a love for God.

But that desire and that obedience and that love will come from a New Nature that God has given the True Believer when we become Born Again in our Soul by the action of God in saving us. By the Baptism of God the Holy Spirit. And none of that obedience will INITIATE nor CONTRIBUTE TO nor ENSURE our Salvation in any way. That desire and obedience and love will be the RESULT of our Salvation, and the EVIDENCE of our Salvation, because our Salvation is by God's GRACE ALONE, a gift from God in His Mercy. And not of our works in any sense.

Hi Giannis,

Thanks, brother, I hope you did not take Greek Philosophy personally. I understand the Hebrew word nephesh, it can be any being, dog, cat, or cow. It can also mean a soul, a living being, a dead being, life, self, person, desire, passion, appetite, and emotion, basically who we are. When I said the spirit of life, I did not mean it had anything to do with the Spirit of God, sorry for the misunderstanding. I meant spirit/breath as the word neshamah used in Job 27:3.

I understand our being or soul is the same thing it is who we are and who will someday be with Jesus and see God's face. But that day is the day of redemption, Ephesians 4:30. In Scripture in death there is no remembrance of us, Psalm 6:5. In death we lie down until, Job 14:12-14 the grave is our house and our bed Job 17:13-16.

We will see death and the grave and our soul will be there Psalm 89:48 and this Ecclesiastes 9:5-10. I know our understanding may be different, but I do not see in Scripture where we or any part of us is immortal until resurrection day 1 Cor. 15:52-53 we will be raised from the grave, us, our soul/being, who we are.

The definition of death is the separation of the soul from the body I do not see in Scripture. It does say there is no knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, death, Ecclesiastes 9:10. I do not see that has changed. I know many understand as you and I hope you take this as just a little of where my understanding comes from, for it does not affect salvation.

The way I see it, we are waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with His reward of eternal life, either we will be alive or asleep in the grave.

God bless,

RLW

Chapter six verse twenty one is my favorite.

I fully agree David0921. And I take note that you have always held your position that 'Christ does 100% of the Work in salvation and that Salvation is by Grace alone - without any work or contribution to it on our part'. And I've truly appreciated your strong affirmation of this as it certainly rings very true in what I also read & believe.

In my statement: "is it of Works (& then God judges them on their love & faith in Him & then applying Jesus' Blood also to them), or is it only of Faith (where our sin was judged at the Cross) & our works will follow?", I was referring to the OT saints in their standing before God with their love, devotion & faith to keep & deliver them. I don't believe that their expression of 'faith' was a gift of God (though certainly a mark that becomes those who are the Elect of God), as is the Faith that has been given us post-Cross ( Ephesians 2:8,9: God's Grace plus His Gift of Faith to us leads us to receive His Salvation): I think a slight difference to what you believe ("that our Faith and our Belief are the Result of our salvation).

Their devotion & diligence to God's Commandments were sufficient to also make them heirs of salvation, looking forward to Christ's Sacrifice that would avail to them as well. Theirs was Works-based but believing in the God Whom they served to not fail them, with the Cross ahead of them. Ours is Grace-based, having done nothing worthy (or could ever do) to deserve His Favor, & no Law that we could call upon that would assist us; for the Cross is behind us, the Work fully completed & no effort on our part could ever contribute to that glorious salvation or make it more secure. So thank you for your comment - I believe we have much agreement here.

Yes, I do agree Charlie. Yet, I find that in any discussion on the Bible & spiritual matters, where the discussion seems to lead nowhere for various reasons, we must admit that even what we have been given in the Bible can sometimes be very limiting, even after doing a detailed examination of various applicable Scriptures. If this were not true, then we should all find full agreement on every matter that is brought up for discussion.

And the fact that we approach the Word with various perceptions of it, whether from pre-conceived beliefs & thoughts, coming to grips with texts that might be read or interpreted differently, or even having a picture of a biblical scenario set in our minds that must only be the correct one, then we are bound to get into robust (sometimes fruitless) discussion, tenaciously hanging on to what we believe is true. Yes, our faith & understanding might be challenged & we should be spiritually & mentally pliable enough to give it due consideration, but I think it's also true, that those of us who have spent much time engrossed in the Word are not very likely to be changed by another's presentation, unless the Spirit intervenes to bring that spark of Divine Light that shakes us out of our set minds. But then, when that new spiritual insight is given, which doesn't necessarily receive the conclusive support from the Word, should we expect anyone else to accept it? Maybe, some things need to be kept close to our chest, rather our hearts & leave the matter with God to do & complete His exacting faultless Work in each one of us.

Hi Jema,

Thank you, it is a hard subject to discuss because the different understandings of the soul, spirit, and resurrection are so different.

God bless,

RLW

Hi Bob,

Yes, the scriptures are crystal clear on this.

The scriptures make it very clear that every Christian has to be baptized, Matthew 28:19

"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:"

This is also how we receive God's Holy Spirit, Acts 2:38 says, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."

GBU

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Isa 53 The appearances of the Just One.

Isa 59:16,17 Isa 63:5 fulfilled John 1:14 John 3:17

53 explains Christ patience's, trials, tribulations & suffering of His life in the great work of man redemption. In His humiliations, being despises, rejected, His not be esteem for who He really was John 1:11 & the world by Whom they were created. The sorrows & griefs He bare on our behalf, His Spirit being wounded for our transgression, & bruised for our iniquities, having the chastisement of our peace laid upon Him.

God, Ephesians 2:4 has left nothing undone in accomplishing this for us, a complete deliverance from sin; spirit, soul & body of the sons & daughters of men from Satan kingdom. Throughout His life & His passion ( the final day of His life) is describe fully here & we see it displayed throughout His life in His humanity, Hebrews 2:17,18

Isa 53:10 shows the delight of the Father's heart, as Christ fulfills every requirement of the Law, satisfying the Court in heaven Daniel 7:9-10 Daniel 7:13,14 being given a Kingdom, with Matt 28:18 literally untying the Father's hands so He could reach out to His beloved creatures in the Grace that He has now provided for us through His Son, 2 Cor 5:18-21

Isa 53:11,12 Grace appearance provides the knowledge that shall justify many, Rom 3:24 Titus 2:11,12 Luke 4:22

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Now He sits at the Right Hand of Power until Psalms 110:1-4 far above all Ephesians 1:20-22. As He works out the redemption that He purchase by His Blood/Life to everyone that would believe in His appearance in Spirit within the conscience, 2 Cor 4:6 He promise the disciples that He would not leave them comfortless, I will come back to you, that your joy maybe full. He pointed to this in the coming of Holy Spirit. John 16:7 the still small Voice in our heart that accuses us when we're wrong, & commends us when we obey Him, Rom 2:15 This is the Treasure we 2 Cor 4:7 that excellency of the power to understand & receive the things of God, is not of ourselves, but of God, for they are only spiritually discerned, 1 Cor 2:11-13

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Isa 53, Now as then, Christ walks the same path as He did then, but in Spirit, He is despised, rejected of men, we esteem Him not, He's experiences the sorrow & grief in mankind unbelief of Him by His appearances in Spirit within our hearts. He has no form of comeliness that we such desire Him, meaning; the Word spoke in our hearts is Christ in Spirit, that Word is God, John 1:1; His first works within us John 16:8 Titus 2:11,12 When we reject His reproof of correction, through unbelief, His words has finds no place in our hearts, we hidden our faces from Him, & run to other things to drown out His Voice, the tender motions of Holy Spirit in His proffering of salvation.

It is indeed Christ within conscience, the mystery Col 1:26-28 Jesus said to the Jews, John 5:39 as then now, God is a Spirit, we must come to Him in & by His Spirit John 14:6 When Jesus said; Matt 11:25 He wasn't stating the Scriptures, Pastors, bible studies etc; but to Him personally. The Scriptures are profitable as we honor them in their right place, the words of God, but not God the Word, who was in the beginning with God, before the Scriptures were. The true glory & honor of the Scriptures is they give us a true testimony of Him, & that they point us to His 2nd coming in Spirit. Hebrews 9:28 John 16:13 OT promise Isa 54:13 it is only by receiving Him in His Spirit appearance within our hearts/conscience that we receive Him, that He may work out His great salvation for us. There is no other way! John 14:6 For in the working of the operations of faith, Rom 10:17 which is in Rom 10:8 we come into relationship & fellowship with Him who suffered so on our behalf. We experience 1John 1:1-3 in the work of redemption. Trust & love is increased as we grow in Grace.

John 17:3

In love & truth

Thankyou so much Ronald , that was so well explained , I knew that and agree with everything you said but I could not have explained it as plainly and clearly as you just did :) .

Dear Bob , I can only give you my opinion based on what I have read in the Bible . If I was in your shoes I would want to read the Bible for myself , be sure that I understood the Gospel of the Kingdom and the things pertaining to the Holy One of Israel and His only begotten Son Jesus Christ and the be baptized by full immersion by someone qualified to perform the baptism . Read the Bible for yourself Bob , especially those verses but all of it is enlightening and wonderful . Be convinced in your own heart and mind before making the commitment and may God guide you into His Truth .

Hello Ronald

I have visited some Hebrew sites to see how Hebrews understand the verse in Genesis 2:7, ""And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."

1. Living soul. It is always interpreted as "living being". In Bible (in both Hebrew and Greek) the word soul apart from meaning actually a soul it oftens means "person", "life", "being". In Gen 2:7 it means "being"

2. The breath of life does not mean the Spirit of God. It just shows an action from God that made man alive and that life is shown by breathing.

3. The phrase "breathed into his nostrlis" is always written as "blowing into his nostrils'. In the Septuagint it is almost the same, " And God blowed to his face the blow of life, and man became a living soul (which again is interpreted as "being").

So the whole verse in Gen 2:7 has nothing to do with Spirits and souls. It just talks about the material side of man, soil from the earth that God gave it life.

GBU

thank you.