Bible Discussion Replies PAGE 235

thank you, i will study those verses you pointed out. again, i was baptized as a child, does this count for nothing?

Hi Ashleyreagen44,

I agree with Adam, as we see in Genesis 2:7 that when God breathed into the nostrils of Adam the breath of life he became a living soul. When this spirit of life that is given by God leaves us, we are no longer a living soul. Ecclesiastes 12:7 the spirit goes back to God who gave it, that is for all people, saved or not saved.

We cannot live without the spirit, our breath as James 2:26 said without it our body is dead. When we stop breathing and that spirit goes back to God, we are no longer a living soul, as Jesus said on the cross, I commend my spirit, His breath then He died. Jesus did not go to heaven He went to the tomb/grave the same as we will. Jesus did not ascend to heaven until after He was resurrected, John 20:17.

My understanding is the confusion comes from Greek Philosophy, the meaning of death, Hades, and the immortality of the soul that merged into the Church with Augustine with the teaching on human nature and the afterlife to Greek philosophies.

Daniel 12:2 is the same as John 5:28-29 that we see in Revelation 20:11-15, the sheep and the goats, we see the last enemy cast into the lake of fire death, and hell/grave. My understanding of Scripture we are mortal, and our breath/spirit goes back to God and our soul no longer lives but is asleep in the grave until we are resurrected from the grave. This body is not what is resurrected it is our soul into our new body, and that is when we will be absent from this body, 1 Cor. 15:42-58.

Can I tell someone who thinks their loved one is in heaven their wrong? No, that would be hurtful. If they ask for my understanding, this is what Scripture says to me.

God bless,

RLW

That's not the only place the Bible says people will sleep to await Jesus's return. Here are more...

Job 14:12, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18, 1 Corinthians 15:18-20, Matthew 9:24.

I have been reading recently and again through the books of Genesis, exodus, Leviticus & Numbers. Whenever I do it consistently reminds me of the verses in the New Testament that refer to the Old Testament. Particularly, 2 Timothy 3:15, 16 and 17, Romans 15:4 and Matthew 5:17-20. As all the New Testament was not even evident till long after the Resurrection. When it was canonized into the Holy Bible (king James), we must see the Holiness of the Old Testament, God's voice given to you & me. That is truly what we need to see, the Old joining with the New. That is what completes the Holy Bible and that is what works to complete the human mind. Make it Holy! Set apart.

Thank you! I thought that our bodies never went to heaven because we are given a new body.

Chris,

I presented you with the verse below and you state: "There is no suggestion in this verse that the one in Christ no longer sins."

You seem to be grasping for ways to explain away the TRUE MEANING of this very simple verse!

1 John 3:6

"Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him."

It is very clear: "Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not"

I'm a simple minded man, and this verse is very clear to me, that God is telling us if we are abiding in Him/God - we will not be committing sin!

God tells us it is impossible to abide in Him - and sin at the same time. If we are sinning we are Not abiding in HIM - we are abiding in Satan.

Also, continuing

1 John 3:7-9

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

"he cannot sin, because he is born of God"

Again Chris, these verses are a "wake up call" to all Christains, including myself, that we can't keep sinning - and serve God at the same time. It's one or the other.

GBU

No, it isn't. When someone shares God's truth it honors God. Like these verses:

Mark 16:16

Acts 2:38

Matthew 28:19

John 3:5

Ephesians 4:5

It already says what it says and means what it means, whether someone likes it or not. You can't pick and choose which scriptures you like or dislike like a buffet-style Christianity. I don't think Jesus would approve of that. Water baptism sure was important to Jesus, so much so He was baptized Himself as an example. Wow, God was water baptized so there's no doubt whatsoever what someone needs to do to follow Jesus. Seems like a pretty big crystal clear sign, but people will still find excuses and rationalizations to disobey as they always do.

In Genesis God created man in His image, created male and female, and told them to increase in number, yet later He created Adam, then Eve from Adams rib, I had always thought that Adam and Eve, we all came from them, however when Cain was driven away for killing his brother, he went and took a wife. Its as though i had missed something here. There had to be other people who were not in the garden of Eden. I would like your thoughts on this matter. What do you understand from these accounts in Genesis?

Isaiah 52:14 "His visage was so marred more than any man; and His form more than any sons of men."

How deep the Father's love for us,

How vast beyond all measure

That He should give His only Son

And make a wretch His treasure.

How great the pain of searing loss.

The Father turns His face away,

As wounds which mar the chosen One

Bring many sons to glory.

Behold the man upon a cross,

My sin upon His shoulders;

Ashamed, I hear my mocking voice

Call out among the scoffers.

It was my sin that held Him there

Until it was accomplished;

His dying breath has brought me life -

I know that it is finished.

I will not boast in anything,

No gifts, no power, no wisdom;

But I will boast in Jesus Christ,

His death and resurrection.

Why should I gain from His reward?

I cannot give an answer;

But this I know with all my heart -

His wounds have paid my ransom.

(Steward Townend)

I don't think I can add much to these lyrics. Let us all pray for MORE music of this calibre (this was written in 1995). There are only a few I can think of today which are this scripturally saturated; and this meaningful; in SHORT; worthy of TRUE worship of the Lord; Master and King of Glory.

PASSION WEEK: LUKE 13:32 through LUKE 23

When we see TEN chapters of Luke encompassing the last few days of Christ's life taking up more than a third of the text in the entire book; and similar patterns in all the Gospels; the magnitude of the narrative is exponentially ratched up in terms of the stress on the Messiah; the amount of challenges; as well as the increase in variety of things preached; rebukes to the Pharisees; etc.

I think it is good to ponder on this reality carefully. Christ had already had numerous (some say 10) attempts at being killed at this point; whether attempting to throw Him off a cliff; or stoning as the most popular methodology. He knew through Divine wisdom that He was destined to die at Calvary; thus any earlier attempts to kill Him would be in vain. Nonetheless; He certainly didn't seek to take a break before facing the inevitable-until Gethsemane when He sweat drops of blood and undoutably had angelic strengthening in what was a battle of life and death according to scripture. God would later use others to help carry the cross when His strength failed.

Turning to the ministry with His Disciples; He would at this time emphasize the prophecy of future events (as seen in Matthew 24 for instance). Up until the end; it seemed the Disciples didn't get it as to His need to die (as evidenced by the account of Peter striking the ear of the High Priest when the soldiers came). He also had to deal with the rapid decay from the triumphal entry with the donkey and the "Hosanna's" from the crowd to the rapid shift to "crucify Him" just a week later. He had the betrayal of Judas Iscariot (prophesied in Psalm 41:9); the abandonment of all the Disciples in Gethsemene; and all the sufferings to come in the cruel series of trials leading up to the agony of the Crucifixion; whose physical torments would pale to taking on the sins of men and the wrath of God for us.

He was the suffering servant to the end mindful of others.

Adam when ya preach water baptism for the remission of sins saves us you are in essence saying the Cross was insufficient.....Thats y the lord was so upset with Peter commanding water baptism.....Telling Peter 3 times what i have made clean ( by the blood of my son ) do not call common or unclean..... Acts 10:15....

All the unclean animals in that great sheet was ( humanity ) the Church that was made clean by the blood of the lamb of God.....Not water baptism that Peter was commanding.....In Acts 11:15.....Once Peter understood the vision he said then i remembered the words of our Lord.....John baptised you with water but i will baptise you with the H.G. and fire......Peter neva commands water baptism again for the remission of sins after Acts 11.....Even in the O.T. without the shedding of BLOOD THERE WAS NO REMISSION OF SINS......When ya tell folks they need water baptism FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS you are in essence saying the CROSS that New COVENANT IN HIS BLOOD was insufficent.....Thats y the Lord was so upset with Peter commanding water baptism for the remission of sins....When Jesus said its finished there is absolutely Nothing else can be added....No kind of a work....k gbu

Big difference David between the Old covenant and the New covenant....Jesus said many prophets and righteous Men has desired to see the things you see and HEAR the things you hear but heard them Not.....Hear ye therefore the parable of the Sower and his seed.....Thats y Jesus said he that is least in the Kingdom is greater then John....John was the O.C.....But the H.G. was not yet given in the O.T......And cd not be given till Jesus was GLORIFIED.....When the sower will go forth to sow his seed in humanity Jesus is gona be glorified Which is multiplication of his seed.....As the script. says the glory of the father are his Children.....Which are spirits as that which is born of the spirit is spirit.....The H.G. is the multiplication of Christ Jesus....Thats y they refer to the H.G. as the Promise.....Under the O.C. it was Isaac that was the Child of Promise....Impling natural Israel.....But under this N.C. its the H.G. that is the Child of Promise...Thats y he is saying that which is born of the spirit is spirit...Imping an Israel of God that is gonna be born in us via his good seed the living word that N.C...There is no Salvation or Kingdom until the woman births the manchild which is the H.G. that Child of PROMISE..... Rev 12:10

........What the scriptures are trying to tell us is....there is no Salvation from sin till we birth the H.G. That CHILD OF Promise.....A lil Child is gonna lead them....Thats y Jesus is telling us Unless you receive the Kingdom of God as a lil Child ( the H.G.) You will in no wise enter there in.....As that which is BORN of the spirit is spirit.....Which answers to our new heart and new SPIRIT.....That New CREATURE....The woman in Rev.12 keeps the commandments simply b/c she has birth the Child of Promise the H.G....Which is the testimony of Jesus.....that Spirit of truth that is gona rule all nations.....And reprove this world of sin and righteousness and Judegment....Thats y we must be bornagain of an incorruptible seed...not in O.T..

Chris,

You might note in all of my comments where I speak about the Nature of Salvation, I always stress that Christ does 100% of the Work in saving those whom He saves and that Salvation is by Grace Alone. There is a reason for this.

We must start with the very clear statement of Romans 3:10-18 that ALL of mankind is Spiritually DEAD and will never exercise "faith in God"or "believe on Christ" in a way that is pleasing to God, despite the fact that we are COMMANDED to do so.

Our Faith and Our Belief (one is the verb the other is the noun) are Works that we do ( 1 Thessalonians 1:3). And the Bible is crystal clear that our works can never save us. So we are not saved by God's Grace and Our Faith. We are saved by God's Grace Alone. Our Faith and Our Belief are the RESULT of our Salvation. They are not a CAUSE nor a BASIS for our Salvation.

Unfortunately, if you go into virtually any church today you will be presented with some form of a Works-Grace gospel. And this is one reason why I believe that 1 Pet 4:17 and other related passages are in play today. And this is very sad to say.

Also Bob , as a Christian , I believe that the Bible should be taken as a whole , not two different testaments , the old is a foreshadow of the new and the parallels are not coincidental . 2nd Kings chapter five is in fact a foreshadow of the new covenant in Christ , which allows the gentiles access to the God of all creation . If you have the time and inclination , add this chapter to the other two that I gave you . 2nd Kings chapter 5 verse 13 stands out ri

brght and clear . How can anyone who believes that the old is as relevant to us as the new , ignore this chapter and it's deep significance ? Sorry if I sound a bit dogmatic , the Truth is in the Bible , the whole Bible , and none of it is there by chance , it has been written by God for our instruction . The Levites were given very specific instructions about how they were to approach God , it's the same for us , I believe .

Amen to you Adam .

Nicely put Andy , Amen to you .

Hello Ashley. In my understanding, there are two aspects for those who belong to Jesus at their death: the mortal body goes into the ground & the immortal spirit returns to God ( Ecclesiastes 12:7). Some believe that both the spirit/soul & body remain together in the ground.

In Daniel 12:1,2, we read about the resurrection of the body in that final day, but there is no mention of the fate of the spirit of the deceased. Then in the account that Jesus gave of the wealthy man & poor Lazarus ( Luke 16:19-31), we note that Jesus spoke of three men: one in torment in hell's flames, one in relative peace & comfort in paradise, & with Abraham at his side. If any of these men just remained in the grave, Jesus would not have spoken of life beyond the grave soon after their deaths & such a life where either torment or peace can be experienced.

Even the Apostle Paul expressed his desire to leave this Earth ( Philippians 1:21-24) & to be with Christ, though he was required to continue to be used of God in the Gospel for a little longer. Paul didn't expect to lie in the grave, but his hope was that death would actually be welcome, for it meant that he would be with his Lord & Savior. And in passages such as Revelation 4:4; Revelation 5:5-10; Revelation 19:4; etc. we read about the Elders around God's Throne in Heaven. So I believe that at death our spirits return to God to join the host of Heaven worshiping the Lord of Glory. And when Jesus returns in the clouds to receive His beloved, those who have died in Christ will have their bodies re-formed to join their spirits, & those believers alive at that time will arise physically to be with the Lord forever. All this points to Jesus snatching away His people off the Earth before the awful Judgements of God come upon the unbelieving world. And then we all reign with Christ on the Earth in the Millennium period.

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Friend,

Let go over some of what you have written here.

1.You say, "the law is holy, but it couldn't make you holy".

Luke 1:5,6; Leviticus 20:26; He's speaking in a present tense. King David, after he grievously sinned against the LORD, found a place humility, brokenness of heart & contriteness of spirit to Psalms 101:2; & what about all the writers of the OT, 2 Pet 1:21; they were holy! They walk in obedience to the measure of the Light that God was please to give them, under the gospel of their dispensation.

2. Rom 7:14-25 Here Paul is explaining his struggles with the sin nature. After his encounter with Christ, he finds the Covenant has now be change, finding himself without the righteousness of the law, in which Philippians 3:6. He seeks the righteousness that is by "faith". Rom 6 tell us, "Grace" appearance in his heart, how he exercise the Word of Righteousness, yielding his member to glory & the knowledge of God, that shine in his heart in the face of

2 of 3

Jesus Christ. The Word of Faith, believing that it was indeed Christ fulfilling His Father command to shine within our heart/conscience. The still small Voice that reproof us of evil thoughts, words or deeds. This is the true Light, John 1:9; Grace is the law of Rom 8:2; he obey it from Rom 6:17,18; it make us free Rom 6:22; Holy writ says, Rom 6:14,15; the word used is shall, not should, it's a positive assertion, a confident & forceful statement of fact. Holy Spirit states it twice here, along with other strong assertions to the same end. Rom 6:1,2; Rom 6:6,7; Rom 6:11-13;

You say "we have been join to Christ" only when we have been perfected by the working of Grace, which is indeed being dead unto sin, as you stated "Paul is saying recognize that sin has no rule/dominion over you" meaning you don't have to sin no more. For Grace teaches us the Cross, the power of God unto salvation. The body is just a vessel animated by the spirit & soul, become John 3:5 & Rom 12:1 & the body will be animated & be led by Holy Spirit. Yet for all this, it is safe to say the body of flesh still bare the consequences of the fall, but in the next life we're to received new bodies, like unto His glorious body. Halleluiah!

3. 1 John 3:1-9, yes indeed, after the working of Grace in the 1 Pet 1:2; Titus 3:5 being born again by receiving 1Pet 1:23 unto the new Creature, created in Col 3:10;

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4. 1 John 1:7-10; We all come into the world as miserable sinners Rom 3:23; but with the coming of Christ/Grace we don't have to stay that way, Rom 3:24; through the obedience of faith in the Light of His Countenance that shine in our heart, 7-10 explains the operations of Grace appearance, John 16:8 bringing these to seeds into judgment within conscience, if we then say we have not sin, we deceive ourselves ,make Him a liar & the Truth/Word is not engraft within us. But if received, He cleanses us from all unrighteousness, iniquity, transgression & sin, Titus 2:14; By receiving His convictions, is the Power received, & everyone that 1John 3:3; is experience. So there a time when He finds us in sin, & a time that He cleanse from all sin.

5. Jude 1:21-24; ; Keeping yourselves in the love of God/ is by keeping His commandments, 1John 2:3-6; John 14:24; the Light of His Countenance that shine in our hearts

& in doing so He will keep you from falling, present you faultless! This is obviously from sinning against Him.

Yes David0921, I think that we are in some agreement: that the salvation that God has granted to all mankind is by His Grace & our Faith alone. Where the difference I see between the OT 'believers' & the NT believers, is that the one was looking forward to the Cross (without any inkling of it); and the other, looking back at the Cross where Salvation's work was fully completed.

For us, it is clear but for those pre-Cross, how did they perceive their salvation (or, even understand how God expected them to live to attain it)? Therefore, I see that their status before God was to adhere to His Commandments or suffer, to offer sacrifices for atonement, & to hope that if all requirements were met, remaining faithful to God, then they would not suffer & for some, a resurrection hope - all of Works to get there.

Conversely, those post-Cross didn't need to obey God's Commandments to receive His Salvation, obviously no need for sacrifices (for Jesus was the Sacrificial Offering to God), & we don't have any fear of rejection because none of the above were requirements for acceptance - God, in His Son, came for us & accomplished all. So ultimately those of the OT folk who did according to the Word of God & believed in God to redeem them knew that nothing more could be done towards their salvation, but it was now all in God's Hands. Those who spurned God's Word, engrossed in sin, idolatry, etc., had no hope.

Whereas we (post-Cross), can have confidence (i.e. if truly repentant, calling on God), that our salvation is secure, based wholly on what God has done & not on our merits. Here then is the difference - because in considering the Doctrine of Salvation, it is not just about the destiny of the soul (which is clearly the goal), but that which goes on before to attain it: is it of Works (& then God judges them on their love & faith in Him & then applying Jesus' Blood also to them), or is it only of Faith (where our sin was judged at the Cross) & our works will follow?

fig leaves

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

First one must turn (repent) from what God considers sin.

second, be completely immersed (baptized) in water while calling on and believing Jesus, (just as Jesus and all new converts were baptized.)

and third you will have the Holy Spirit.

These 3 signify: your death to sin as Jesus died for our sin. Your burial as Jesus was intombed (buried). And your new life guided by God whereas Jesus rose from the dead and was glorified.

Revelation 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Yes, Frankie J., I see we understand Romans 8:4 differently. The "righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us" to me means, that where the letter of the Law failed in that it couldn't produce righteousness in one's life, now we who live by the Spirit & not by the Law, will have the full & clear meaning & application of that Law placed into our hearts. How we respond to the Holy Spirit Who has placed the WHOLE Law (i.e. the Law that reveals righteousness) in our hearts is another matter about obedience. Whether or not we obey Him still does not deter from the fact that the righteousness contained within the Law has been given to us.

My not using 'abrogated' was intentional & not sneaky, as I try not to overuse words & phrases - yet the meaning should remain the same. Very perceptive of you to notice this.

And for the rest of your comments, I don't think I can adequately address them, as I note that you have not understood what I've said, hence you believe that I am "speaking from both sides of my mouth". And that's fine. I think if you've followed my other posts even from years ago, then the message & work of the Cross & the liberty we can enjoy as believers by life in the Holy Spirit, brings no contradiction or conflict. Where there can be conflict, is when I stand against an adherence to a Law never designed to give life, where the Work & Power of the Holy Spirit is never measured against the futility & temporariness of that Old Law, & when any claim of attaining a sinless life in the present is impossible in the light of the Scriptures, are raised.

And so with your closing words, I think that our understanding of God's Word in relation to these subjects at least, shows that in spite of the many Scriptures we've looked at, our understanding will always be at variance, & only further Light from the Spirit can reveal more & impress it upon our hearts. So God bless you Frankie J & I'll close this off here, as our writing has now drifted too far apart.

I was always under the assumption that when saved Christians die, they go to Heaven immediately. Daniel 12:2 has somewhat perplexed me. Do people just "sleep" in their graves until Christ's Second Coming? Or are they waiting in Heaven for us? Please help me understand.

Yes Adam.

Baptism does save us. But not water baptism. What saves us is the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, as God Himself applies His Salvation to our life in washing away our sins.

Water Baptism is a sign and a symbol of God's action and has no efficacy in itself. It is, in fact, a work that we do; not a work that God does.

And if we are trusting in any work that we do to save us, we are trusting in a works-grace gospel that cannot save.

Page 2. Bro. Dan.

And what if we only speak to others of aiming to be sin-free and not the reality of a life where sin will always make an entrance? - what happens to them when they can't, losing their battles, getting depressed for failing their Lord? We're then left with greater tragedies by lives defeated & utterly confused. If being sinless can be a present reality, then yes, it must be taught. But nowhere in the Bible I read it as you suggest.

1 John 3:6. In the Greek, the verb applying to 'the one who abides in Him, 'sinneth' not', is what I understand as a 'present indicative active' verb. That is, the verse declares that the person who is truly abiding in Christ is not a person presently behaving in a sinful condition, or continuing in sin. Not that he is sinless, but when sin is committed, he is dealing with it & not entertaining it. The hallmark of those NOT 'in Christ', is that sin is of no consequence & if the conscience is affected, he will deal with the matter in his own way, in his own time. However, for the true believer, any sin has to be immediately identified as that which is against the Will of God & must be dealt with accordingly. There is no suggestion in this verse that the one in Christ no longer sins. GBU.

Hello Bro. Dan. You stated, "This is the defeatist attitude that mosthave accepted over the years" I don't see this as defeatist, but a realist's attitude. And this realist, who of course is a believer in Christ & the Word of God, will know that this is not a doom & gloom picture that is presented, but a fact of the continual battle of the spirit & the flesh that rages daily - but that there is power to overcome & be victorious and this lies in obedience & a close walk with the Holy Spirit. When a person reaches that stage in his life of total unflinching obedience, then he would indeed be without any sin, for no temptation would ever be allowed to germinate into sin.

Hence every letter by the apostles, even the apostles themselves, were conscious of sin at their heart's door & that freedom from giving into sin cannot be found in this life. Paul's account in Romans chapter 7 is very telling. After writing about his deliverance from the Old Law which revealed his sin & led to death (vv 5,6), he now served God in "newness of spirit" (i.e. in his born again spirit). Yet, he lived in the flesh & in the flesh "dwelleth no good thing (v18); he delighted in God's Law, but he could not get away from the other law that worked in his members (flesh) (vv 22,23). And this other law continued to draw him into sin (vv 19,20). And so he sums up his predicament in v 25, that "with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin". Paul knew his battle was continual & he would have failures, but he took heart that though the flesh which cannot be renewed in this life as his spirit could, he would still fail God & sin, but in his spirit & great desire, he persistently pursued God's Will to live for Him & please Him. Did Paul ever reach that state of sinlessness, as you suggest that Christians can achieve? He might have longed for it, as we all should, but the reality of it is that sin will always make its appeal, & we will sometimes fail. Onto Page 2.

Again Chris,

Thank you for your response.

I focus on the last paragraph of page 2 of your last response where you seem to be taking issue with my statement that the Salvation of Old and New Testament Believers is the same Salvation.

I have read that paragraph several times and confess to not understanding what you are communicating. That may be on me.

I am not suggesting that Old Testament Believers had as much information about the Nature of Salvation as we do today. They did not have the Whole Bible as we do.

But I am saying that there is one and only one Salvation that God has worked out even before He created the world. And it is God Himself that applies that Salvation to those He has chosen to save throughout time. And it is a Salvation of Grace Alone where God does 100% of the work in saving us. And our works contribute nothing to that Salvation. And this is the Salvation that Abel and Noah and Abraham and Moses and David experienced. And that every New Testament Believer experiences as well.

That Salvation is not dependent on how much we know about the Gospel. Look at the Ninevites; how much did they know and understand about the Gospel. But they experienced exactly the same Salvation as anyone else that becomes saved throughout time.

So if you are suggesting that there is a difference in the Salvation of Old and New Testament Believers, what is that difference?

Would you agree that baptism is a command?

"The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:" 1 Peter 3:21 KJV

Does this verse above say baptism doth NOT save us, or that it does? I didn't write this, God did. Are your words in perfect alignment with what God said here? Does it say that baptism is unimportant and should be avoided and definitely do NOT be baptized or does it say the opposite of that?

Mark 16:16

Acts 2:38

Matthew 28:19

John 3:5

Ephesians 4:5

It sure seems very important based on these verses, do you agree? Blatant disobedience is not a sign of a true Christian according to what the Bible says.

John 15:10

I've never understood how someone can call himself a Christian but aim to do the very minimum they assume they need to do in order to get to heaven. I don't think Jesus is a bare minimum type of being. He wants all of you like the greatest commandment says: Matthew 22:37-38. It doesn't say love God with only part of your heart and pick and choose whatever you're comfortable with in obeying and its totally cool if you don't do 50% of the stuff in the Bible. The life of a Christian is to be a slave to righteousness. It's not just a get out of hell free card to enjoy following satan and do whatever lust the heart desires. Most will cry Lord Lord at the end assuming they're saved, but will not be. These are people that tell everyone they're saved and will be devastated on how they got it wrong and actually didn't love Jesus like they claimed.