Bible Discussion Replies PAGE 250

Yes S Spenser ! :) There will be sacrifices in God's Kingdom , this is made very clear in Ezekiel . I think that this is because there will be sinful humans living on earth during Christ's one thousand years , humans will be born into this Kingdom and won't have ever known anything other than life in it . Where there is sinful flesh there is the need for sacrifice , those humans will not have the same faith in Christ as we do because they will see him and us , in our changed bodies , we will be the normal to them , whereas we have not seen Christ as yet and we walk by faith not by sight and it is our faith that will be rewarded . We chose to believe and obey , they won't make that choice because they will see him and , eventually Christ will be rejected by some of them and they will rebel . They will be destroyed in the lake of fire with the devil and the beast and the false prophet . Those humans that lived and died during the one thousand years will be ressurected and judged and then comes the end , when God will be all in all . Ezekiel is a hard book for me still but those chapters that tell us of the New Temple and the Prince , they are awesome ! They make my spine tingle :) .

I think those are metaphors.

1 Cor 15:18,20 talk about "sleep" which I believe refers to those who died and are awaiting Christ's return.

Hi Pierre, thank you for that mention. I'm not a thief on a cross though, nor is anyone else. I don't know of any verse saying that this one example is a template and applies to everyone else universally even if you have to ignore other scripture. Also, it was only one of the thieves He said that to, and He didn't say He sad salvation or was saved or would go to heaven, but be in "paradise" which could be a different place. The guy also died, where as we are alive, but people are somehow saying that means they're saved now, even though they're still alive and didn't directly talk to Jesus.

Jesus is big enough to where He can make special circumstances and cases to help someone. It seems like a disproportionate amount of instruction is extrapolated from this example while also diminishing verses like 1 Peter 1:5 that say salvation will be revealed later in the last time. Both can't be true, so one is probably correct and the other is probably incorrect. Currently there are more verses saying that we will receive salvation in the future after judgment instead of before. But I still want to uncover 100% of all of them that people use to support their beliefs so we can all form our beliefs based on God's truth and sort that from man-made beliefs. God bless.

James 1:15 illustrates the process of sin leading eventually to death. Thus; Adam began to die in all ways once he sinned; spiritually immediately as Ezekiel 18:20 indicates it affects the soul and the death in the body continues until eventually we return back to the dust we came from. Hence; there was immediate estrangement from God when Adam and Eve hid; and God pronounced the resulting curse in childbirth; tilling the earth is sweat with thistles and thorns; etc.

We must also understand that there are those predestined to be in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world ( Ephesians 1:3-6). The opposite is true for the unregenerate as seen in Revelation 17:8. Christ's death was therefore part of a plan from before Creation where all those would hear His voice who were His sheep ( John 10:27). We must remember that His death was effective from what happened in time and space 2000 years ago. It also is retroactive; as it were in order to allow those who were of old to eventually in time and space have access to heaven (see Romans 6:9). Therefore; at the Rapture ( 1 Thess. 4:15) shall involve the Resurrection of all souls of deceased saints; followed by bodily ascension of those alive and remaining. There are some verses which seem to indicate O.T. saints may arise later on in say the Midpoint of the Tribulation or near the end; there is some debate on that question. Some already apparently were resurrected ( Matt. 27:52-56). This would have been a gleaning of the firstfruits; so to speak.

My point here is predestination and the fact that God initiates repentance ( Acts 11:18); etc. There is such a thing as godly repentance and worldly ( 2 Cor. 7:10); illustrated by that of Peter and Judas Iscariot. Genuine repentance brings life and brings sorrow at offending a Holy God; worldly sorrow only is interested in consequences of our actions; and in Judas' case he only recognized Christ as having "innocent blood"; not as God's Son to be worshipped.

Great posts , thankyou .

Hi Laundry, of those verses shared I don't see any saying anything about immediate salvation on earth before judgment. God bless.

Amen , I have , more than once , been in what some might call bad company . I once worked in a factory full of mostly men . When I first walked in I was overwhelmed by the feeling that I was the only one alive and that they were all dead . This has happened to me a few times , the feeling that I'm talking to a dead person , it's quite distressing . All we can do is show love and kindness and gentleness and generosity . Remember , we were all in that state once , remember how miserable and bewildered you used to be ? That's how they feel now . We must show them , the same kindness that God shows us . God bless you .

Jema,

We have to make a distinction between our physical body and our soul. Both are very, very real. And together make up who we are. Before God applies his salvation to our life, we are spiritually dead and subject to eternal death in body and soul. When God applies salvation to our life, i.e. when we are Born Again in our soul. God gives us a new resurrected soul in which we have eternal life. Our Resurrected soul will never die.

But nothing has happened to our body yet. Our body is still lusting after sin. And is still Subject to physical death, just like the body of an unsaved person. So when a believer dies physically, their soul goes to live with Christ in heaven, because that is the part of them that has been "saved". And their body goes into the grave and decays just like any unsaved person's body. But at the Last Day, Christ returns with all of the believers that are with him in heaven in their soul existence, and the bodies of all believers are resurrected alt, a glorified spiritual body, and reunited with their resurrected soul to form a complete personality, which will live and reign with Christ in the new heaven and new earth eternally. Or, if we have not already died physically when He returns, our body of flesh and bone is changed, in the twinkle of an eye, into a glorified spiritual body.

Our salvation is only partially complete at the time we have become Born Again. Our salvation is completed when we receive our glorified spiritual body at the Last Day.

Our finite minds cannot grasp the full extent of the glory and wonder of God's Salvation plan nor its mechanics. But we read in the Bible what God has revealed to us and we accept it in faith.

Regarding the resurrection of the unsaved, that will also occur at the Last Day but it is not a resurrection to life or consciousness existence. That must be discussed in the context of God's overall Judgment process which is complex and I'm not prepared to address that at this time.

Hi Frankie J , please forgive me , I didn't give your reply to me the proper attention , my cat CJ has been very poorly today and he's distracted me . Why do pets always get sick on a weekend ? Anyhoo , he's improved slightly so I'm calmer . God actually spoke to Abraham more than once , we can read about that in Genesis , it's possible that He spoke to Abraham on other occasions that we don't know about . I'm sure that Abraham would have told his family and his servants all that they needed to know about their Heavenly Father . You are correct God speaks to us today , through His Word in the Bible and through His Holy Spirit . I'm still learning things from the Bible even though I've been reading it regularly for a few decades , God's Word is alive , in the Bible and in the hearts and minds of all who learn from it , all who seek Him out ,starting with the Bible . Would God preserve His Word through thousands of years for no purpose ? What made you want to learn about God ? Why did you start to read the Bible ? We could all tell an interesting story about how we came to the Truth . God works in our hearts and minds for sure , I don't disagree with anyone on that point , for beginners , those who know nothing and just start out being curious , the Bible should be their first port of call . It's still revealing knew things to me every time I read it , I'm addicted to it I think :) . Many times I've been prompted to do or say something , out if the blue , who does this prompting ? Maybe my own subconscious ? Maybe some thing else ? God lives , Christ lives and they work in us and for us , through others and to others through us . God is everywhere , His Glory surrounds us , we just need to open our eyes and ears and hearts and minds , God is love and love is everywhere . The love that God has for all His creation must be in us , Christ is the epitome of God's love , Christ must live in our hearts and we must reveal his love to others . We live in Christ .

First off; we have verses such as 1 John 1:8-10 which makes it pretty clear that none of us are without sin. That would be in reference to the old man and body which still have the capability or potential of sin; much like Adam did before he fell in Eden.

We need to differentiate between the inner man; or our hearts and our actions; which express what is going on within us. It is much like a disease which may be present before anyone can diagnose it. The act of sin is a process that starts with allowing our minds to consider something ungodly; and as believers that often is associated with thoughts from Satan or his minions influencing us (such as in Matthew 16:23). In that case we see how what would seem like the best humanitarian approach to a close friend protecting another was against God's greater purposes; which may in Peter's logic have seemed like righteous indignation. Instead; it betrayed his own blindness toward what Christ had repeatedly predicted and was being ignorant of what the Spirit had recently revealed to him about Christ being Lord and Savior. Weaknesses can therefore be either used for God's glory ( 2 Corinthians 12:10) as stated by Paul; or something that can be a repeated snare; as seen by Peter's boasting that he would even die for Christ ( John 13:37). This illustrates once again how we must never lean to our own understanding or strength in boasting.

Sanctification therefore continually transforms us as we mature in the faith. We are operating in forgiveness for all sins; past present and future IF truly saved. That is crucial for when we do sin we must ask forgiveness ( 1 John 2;1-2); and be restored; reclaiming our blood bought standing. If there is a lifestyle of sin which would mean deliberate repeated actions without any remorse it is evidence that there is no contention between the Spirit and flesh ( Gal. 5:17) and salvation can be questioned. Restoration is only possible if we are truly children of God.

Hi Adam,

If you think you already have the answers, I don't see it as appropriate to test folks. It can spread doubt. What you need is some good dispensational teaching. The belief originated from the understanding of the New Testament Pauline soteriological doctrine as a whole.

"In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory" ( Ephesians 1:13-14). Being sealed is the same as being saved.

Judgment and salvation are the opposite. There are three judgments in the New Testament: sheep and goats ( Matthew 25), the judgment seat of Christ ( 1st Corinthians 3), and the great white throne judgment ( Revelation 20). Only one of those will a Christian experience-the judgment seat of Christ. The other two are for the unsaved. We are not immediately judged after we die. The judgment seat of Christ occurs after the rapture so that the works of the flesh are able to be viewed. Some people do believe that we are judged immediately after we die (e.g. amillennialists).

Then what is 1st Corinthians Ch 15 V 12-28 all about ? If we are in Christ we don't die , we sleep in him until he returns and ressurects us . Sinners die in their sin ,we live in Christ always .

Adam there is a verse saying while we were yet sinners Christ died for us Romans 5:6....So before we were born Christ has already died for us....And i was found of them that sought me NOT And made manifest unto them that asked not after me.....k lemme go

Adam the 2 thieves were saved that very day.....This day you will be with me in paradise....Alex

Brother Adam:

What is man SAVED from?

The wages of SIN is DEATH.

What is SIN?

Psalms 103:12 As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.

Hebrews 10:16 And this is the covenant I will make with them, after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my LAWS in their hearts, and in their minds I will write them:

Hebrews 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

So what is the SIN that results in death.

James 2:7 Do they not blaspheme thy Holy NAME by which ye are called?

Revelation 13:6 And he open his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme HIS NAME ....

John 16:8 And when HE (the Holy Ghost) is COME, he (the Holy Ghost) will reprove the world of SIN ....

So what is SIN that leads to death? ....blasphemy of the Holy Ghost by whose NAME ye are CALLED.

Acts 2:38 .....REPENT (of your beliefs) and be baptised in the NAME of Jesus ......

John 16:9 Of SIN because the BELIEVE not on me (the promised SEED of God), the ROD that CAUSES man to do the WILL of God.

Man does't BELIEVE that Christ came as SINFUL FLESH (you and I and all creation): and DIED on the cross.

Three days later Christ ONLY arose; and all creation were joint heirs with Christ's resurrection, all creation bears the NAME of Christ, because they were made ONE with Christ, blaspheming that name leads to DEATH.

The whole world is DEAD in sin (UNBELIEF).

God bless you

S Spencer

Part 2

If we look at the saying "the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION" spoken of by Daniel the prophet we see in Dan. 11:31 the abomination that maketh desolate and Dan. 12:11 the abomination that maketh desolate set up. In these two, an abomination is a single act of putting up a pagan idol, sacrificing an unclean animal, or defiling the Holy of Holies in the temple.

But the act done in the temple, the abomination is what makes it desolate, like what Antiochus did, and if I am not wrong this is something that is said the beast/antichrist will do. In Dan. 9 it is for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate. For the overspreading of abominations, this is not a single act, it is many acts and plural abominations and for these abominations, he, God by Jesus makes it desolate, the city and the temple, not by one doing a single act that makes just the temple desolate.

My understanding Dan. 2 and 7 have no connection to Dan. 9. The only way is if the prince in Vs. 26 and the he in Vs. 27 is the beast/antichrist. My understanding of scripture they do not support this. If the last week was in the past what does that mean for those who are looking for it in the future?

I know we differ on this, but I hope this helps see where my understanding comes from.

In love, God bless,

RLW

Hi S Spencer, thank you, brother.

I know you travel. Concerning part 1, vs. 26 the people of the prince; my understanding.

"the people of the prince that shall come", the word (of) makes a connection between two entities, like, the wheels of a car, the legs of a table, or the soldiers/people of the prince.

In Vs. 26 the word of unites the people to the prince. If the people were the ones who destroyed the city and sanctuary/temple in 70 AD, the prince was either Titus or as some say, Jesus, like God used Babylon in 586 BC due to the same Hebrew word for the prince being used in Vs. 25.

If the prince in Vs. 26 is the beast/antichrist that shall come, are the people of the prince also to come and destroy the city and sanctuary in the future? How could the beast/antichrist who has not risen as of yet, have and control people in 70 AD?

I do not see Nebuchadnezzar's dream in Dan. 2 connected to Dan. 9. My understanding of that is the head is Babylon, the breast and arms are the Medo-Persian Empire, the belly and thighs are the Greek Empire, the legs are the Roman Empire, and the mixed feet and toes are the future ten kings/kingdoms of the beast Rev. 17:12-14 and the stone is Jesus's second coming Rev. 19:11-21.

My understanding of Matt. 23:37-38 is a consummation of Dan. 9:27 "for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate," (the abominations are the evil the leaders have done and they did not hear God's word, the charge) (he shall make it desolate is for this the city and temple will be left desolate, the sentence, utter destruction) Matt. 23:39 pointing to His second coming.

See part 2

Adam,

2 Corinthians 5:17-21 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a NEW CREATURE: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Galatians 1:6-9 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

Galatians 2:16-21 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith OF Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith OF Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith OF the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Hi Chris, the Bible supports being assured of future salvation.

Instead what I'm looking for verses supporting people saying they were already saved (in the past) and already have salvation.

So far there seem to be dozens of verses supporting a future salvation and none supporting a past or present salvation before judgment, but only one which I just now found supporting a present salvation: Luke 19:9

Verses supporting Future salvation:

1. Phil 2:12 - "work out" salvation as if its a process and not a one moment event.

2. 1 cor 3:6-8 (conditional- "reward according to his own labour.") It doesn't say the reward came in advance before any labor was done or that labor was irrelevant.

3. 1 Cor 9:24-27 "run the race" to win the prize, not the 'race was already won' and you already have the prize.

4. Hebrews 10:26 "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,"

5. 1 Peter 1:13 "...hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;"

6. 1 Peter 1:5 - "...salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." If salvation was given now, why would it say its not given until the "last time"?

7. 2 Timothy 1:12 "For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day." It says "keep" like a promise, like assurance of future salvation? It doesn't say Jesus already saved me and delivered the commitment.

Verses supporting Present salvation:

1. Luke 19:9

Currently:

7 verses supporting future salvation

1 verse supporting present salvation.

Any others?

Romans Ch 2 V 11-29 and Hebrews Ch 11 V 6 , love and respect in Christ .

Thanks for your reply Frankie J . The law doesn't save the gentiles ( non believers or those who haven't had the opportunity to know God ) only faith in His Son and what he accomplished , our faith in Christ , that's what saves us . I know lots of nice moral kind people who are atheists or idolators , are they saved ?

Hi Brother S Spencer,

Thank you for the reply. That's interesting how two people can read the same verse and come up with different meanings.

So, I'm trying to find verses that say we're immediately saved the moment we decide to follow Jesus (before we're even judged).

Based on what I'm looking for you wrote the following:

" John 5:24. actually says exactly that along with a accumulation of scripture when discerning them properly."

But I read John 5:24 and it doesn't say anything about the timing of being saved. It does not say immediately or anything about "when" this happens and its not even implied as some assume. But if you keep reading at John 5:28-29 it adds a condition by saying after Jesus speaks and dead are raised that "they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation."

Some readers imply a sense of timing when reading something even though unstated. I do not believe the Bible implies timing if it is not specifically stated. I will share evidence why:

"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." Genesis 2:17 KJV

Adam and Eve ate the fruit and did not die immediately, but later. Their death in the form of mortality likely started when they ate this, but they did not physically die until many years later. Some claim they had a spiritual death, but that is not stated.

Another example is: "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them." Genesis 1:27 KJV

Some assume this means God already created females, but then in chapter 2 it says how Adam fell asleep and Eve was created. This is an example of how assuming timing when it is not stated is not correct. What this really is is a brief summary overview then chapter 2 goes into more detail about how it happened.

Likewise, John 5:24 doesn't say we're saved immediately.

Jesus does promise us eternal life.

1 John 2:25

"And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life."

But to receive this promise we must do what?

In addition to believing that Christ is our Savior, repenting from sin, receive baptism, and finally and most important, we must live for Christ, by rejecting this world, picking up our cross and following Jesus. Just tells us how he expects us to "live our lives" in order to receive the promise of eternal life!

Matthew 16:24

"Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me."

25For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. 26For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

Most Christian's today (including me) want to believe they are already Saved, and no matter what - we already have OUR salvation. We want to live our worldy lives, accumulating more money, buying more material things, participating in all types worldly things to get ahead and make our lives easier. We seem to fill most of our days attending sports events, and all types of other worldly things, rather than pursuing Godly activities that Jesus tells us we must do.

The big question that we need to ask ourselves: Are we exchanging our "promise of Salvation" for worldly things"? And are we living our lives as commanded by Jesus?

Jesus never tells us we get a free ticket to Salvation by just believing, and we don't receive our salvation until we receive it at the great judgement day. So then, if we want to receive "the promise" don't we need pick up our cross and follow Jesus?

GB

Jema

How did Abraham, Issac, Rebecca, Jacob or Job & many more come to the personal experiential knowledge of God? Job 32:8 But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding. God Spirit is not limited in how He reveals Himself to mankind, dreams, visions, etc, the Scripture are full of them, but all by the operations & administration of His Spirit. God promise in Jeremiah 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people, Heb 8:10 quotes this, the wording is ( I ) will put My laws into their inward parts. He doeth the work, cause us to will & do of His good pleasure, & this is by His Spirit operations upon our hearts. Romans 2:14-15 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

its plainly written the Gentiles ,which have not the law, which was the gospel of that dispensation. God put His laws within their hearts, & taught them Himself by His Spirit. These things were written for our example, He does the same today!

I encourage you to reread the Scriptures, the honoring of them in there proper place, is truly the benefit & enjoyment of them.

He that has ears to hear, let him hear what the Spirit has to say:

Hi Adam,

Based on all of the scripture I have read, we do not receive "our salvation" or "our damnation" until Judgement Day.

John 5:28-29

"Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice," "And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation."

2 Corinthians 5:10

"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad."

GB

Salvation (part 3)

Ezekiel 36:24-32 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God. I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you. And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen. Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations.

Joel 2:12-14 Therefore also now, saith the LORD, turn ye even to me with all your heart, and with fasting, and with weeping, and with mourning: And rend your heart, and not your garments, and turn unto the LORD your God: for he is gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repenteth him of the evil. Who knoweth if he will return and repent, and leave a blessing behind him; even a meat offering and a drink offering unto the LORD your God?

Zephaniah 2:3 Seek ye the LORD, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: it may be ye shall be hid in the day of the LORD'S anger.

Philippians 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Salvation (part 2)

Galatians 2:16-21 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith OF Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith OF Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. But if, while we seek to be justified BY Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith OF the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

2 Corinthians 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1 John 2:1-4 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Hiya Jema...Remember what Jesus said NO MAN CAN UNTO ME UNLESS THE FATHER THAT HAS SENT ME DRAW HIM.....The written word cannot draw us....Its only the living word Christ Jesus that can draw us.....As my words are spirit and life....Living words not the written word.....Its gotta be a personal relationship, he has to know us in order to sow his incorruptible seed in our hearts that initiates a birth of Christ in us.....Unless you receive the kingdom of God as a lil Child you will in no wise enter there in......They don't call him the bridegroom for nothin....He has a seed to sow in humanity.....Thats y Jeremiah 30:6 kjv....Jeremiah saw all men in travail and Child birth.....The written word is fine but its just answers to the lesser light.....But the living word is the greater light....Jesus said are there not 12 hrs in a day and 12 hrs in a night.....But if we walk in the written word only we are walking in the night.....Thats what happened to Israel they were sola scriptura....written words only.....But they stoned most all of the Prophets and rejected the Christ....Its only the living word the H.G a LIVING BEING that is the greater light....Thats y the New birth is so important....We have to birth that new creature which is the H.G. That Child of Promise....Nothin availeth any thing in Christ Jesus but a new Creature which is our new heart and new spirit...k lemme run....

Adam, actually I thought I did answer your question. I did state, "a repentant sinner, seeking forgiveness & then being born again by God's Spirit, can be assured of salvation NOW & can never be lost." I believe that those verses show that one can be assured of salvation at the very moment of being born again. And that can only be by the Spirit's indwelling, assurance, & empowering. I do admit that not every born again believer can go back to a specific date when that occurred (e.g. a child or young person who has been brought up in a godly home & in time as the Gospel was presented to him, has confessed & turned to Jesus for salvation). It may not have been so noticeable at that time, as when an adult, especially repentant of much sin, turns from it to Jesus. I remember my date of re-birth as October 25, 1979, when the Holy Spirit descended upon me & with much torment of soul, I relented to His overpowering Work of conviction & provision of the only Way of Salvation.

So the verses as I shared with you, at least speak to me of that time in my life when the Godhead had dealings with me by His intrusion into my ungodly life; that at the time of weeping for my sins & moments later rejoicing with joy unspeakable, that God had forgiven me & had done a very specific work of indwelling; I believe the Apostle Paul called it being sealed with the Holy Spirit, the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession. If a sinner cannot be saved immediately, then I wonder what his state might be, both spiritual & mental. If I had not such knowledge & experience, I could well flounder through life, doing my best to love, please, & serve my Lord, never knowing that the faith & resulting works I presented to Him could ever be good enough till Judgement Day. And so my question to any who believe that salvation is not guaranteed now is: how do you go through life hoping for salvation or even knowing that you could lose faith in the interim & be lost?

Salvation

I'm reading many comments that would seem to be saying that OUR GOOD WORKS make some contribution to our salvation. That they can initiate our salvation. That they can maintain our salvation. That they are a requirement for our salvation. And it is true that we can find verses, that when isolated from the rest of the Bible, could lead to that understanding.

But when we look at EVERYTHING the Bible declares regarding the Nature of Salvation, we find that Salvation is 100% the WORK of God Himself. And if we are following a gospel where we are trusting in OUR GOOD WORKS to contribute to our salvation in any way, we are trusting in a false gospel that cannot save.

This is the snare that the church at Galatia fell into. Read Galatians, the entire chapter, very carefully. Read Romans. Read Ezekiel 36. Read the ENTIRE Bible. When we do this, we find that OUR FAITH, OUR REPENTANCE, OUR OBEDIENCE TO THE LAW OF GOD are the REDULT of our Salvation. They are NEVER THE CAUSE.

OUR obedience to any commandment in the Bible is a GOOD WORK. And God is very clear that our GOOD WORKS cannot and do not contribute to our Salvation in ANY WAY. They are the EVIDENCE of our Salvation. NOT THE CAUSE.

There also seems to be a misunderstanding on the part of some as to what it mean to be "saved". And that mankind has a BODY and a SOUL (or spirit essence). And that both in body and soul, apart from Salvation, we are SPIRITUALLY DEAD, in bondage to Sin and Satan, lust after sin, and subject to Eternal DEATH.

When God applies His Salvation to one of His Elect, God gives them a brand New Resurrected SOUL, in which they now have Eternal Life. This new soul still resides in a body that does not experience any change until the Last Day, when God completes their Salvation by giving them a new Resurrected Glorified Spiritual Body. So that we are now "saved" in our complete personality and will live and reign with Christ in New Heavens and New Earth throughout eternity.