Bible Discussion Replies PAGE 263

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Hi Jimbob. You wrote well though if I could just highlight the 'apostasy' (apostasia), as seen in 2 Thessalonians 2:3, & consider what the Apostle Paul was speaking of here. I realize that it would be simple to understand his statement as applying to believers, before that day of Christ's coming, that some would apostatize by rejecting Christ going back into the world or to embrace another religion. But are we correct to believe that this was what Paul was speaking of in light of his other writings & that of our Lord? (refs. John 10:27-29; John 6:37; 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:13,14; Ephesians 4:30; Romans 8:28-30; Jude 1:24,25; 2 Corinthians 5:17; 2 Timothy 2:19).

When we look at the definition of 'apostasy', it is as you have given ("An abandonment of what one has professed, a total desertion, or departure from one's faith, a total abandonment of the Christian faith"). But 'apostasy' is not simply restricted to a 'total departure from one's faith' but also 'a total departure or abandonment of one's principles, party, cause' (and one could even add 'departure from the Word of God which lays out the principles and Truths of doctrine & righteous living').

Unfortunately, the 2 Thessalonians 2:2-5 passage is not explicit to show us how Paul was applying this 'apostasy'. Obviously, the Thessalonian believers probably knew much more than we have been given (v5 'remember...I told you these things?'). Clearly, this apostasy doesn't relate to principles or causes of the world, because its context shows that Paul is speaking of an apostasy that will affect believers in some way. The question then is: is it the rejection of Christ altogether, or a departure/rejection of the Truth of God's Word? But isn't that the same thing, one could ask? I think you will agree Jimbob, that this rejection of Truth & promotion of unbiblical interpretations & lifestyle, has been going on for a long time - from within the Church itself.

Nstew

Good question.

The answer is in ( Acts. 1:26)

The reason it will be Matthias is ( Mt. 26:24)

David0921

Thank you for your reply. Everybody is a sinner before they are saved David. And what it means to be saved is you are given Eternal Life and will be delivered, saved (we will meet the Lord in the clouds) before the wrath of God is poured out on all the disobedient ones who are left on the earth. ( Jn. 3:36).

We are told in ( Acts. 3:19) ((Repent ye)) therefore, and be converted, ((that your sins may be blotted out)), when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.

(So repentance is required to have your sins blotted out) Some would call that works, would you David?

( Romans. 3:21-25) v21 "But now the righteousness of God (without the law) is manifested"

v24 "Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus"

v25 "through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness (for the remission of sins) ((that are past)) through the forbearance of God" (sins that are past)!

( 1 John. 1:8-10) (We must confess our sins, (REPENT) of our sins before our sins will be forgiven and we will be cleansed from all unrighteousness)

( Acts. 26:20) Tells us "that they should repent and turn to God, (AND DO WORKS) meet for repentance"

David you asked a very interesting question. you asked "How do TRUE BELIEVERS become apostate and come under the wrath of God if Christ has paid the full penalty demanded by the law of God for their sins? Is that not double jeopardy"?

The meaning of the word "apostasy" will give you the answer David, If you truly want the Truth.

["apostasy"] means (An abandonment of what one has professed, a total desertion, or departure from one's faith, a total abandonment of the Christian faith)

So the one's (falling away) in ( 2 Thess. 2:3) are those who abandon what they once professed, who depart from their faith, the (falling away) are those who totally abandon their Christian faith. These would be the same as ( 1 Tim. 4:1) ((some shall depart from the faith, falling away)).

Blessings to you David.

Revelation 21:14

"And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb."

Given what happened to Judas, who would be the 12th apostle in this context?

oops, Ham was Noah's third son.

Cheryl

Part 2

Jesus was a descendant of Judah through David's lineage (which was the line from which kings were to be chosen).

So Cheryl, this is the breakdown of the line of Shem, Noah's son.

The descendants of Japheth (Noah's son) populated the areas of southern Europe and north of Turkey. From these regions, the descendants of Japheth spread out north and east and west. Japheth's descendants were the most numerous of the three sons.

The descendants of Ham settled in the land of Canaan, Egypt, Ethiopia, and most of the African continent. It is believed that they also settled lands around the Indian Ocean.

So, we are not all Hebrews. People are either descended from Shem, Ham, and Japheth. Most of us are descended from more than one of these sons as intermarriage among cousins was common practice in the time of Noah's sons and descendants.

But, to answer your question, Adam and Eve were not Hebrews. The Hebrew people came to be after the flood. The world was populated by the descendants of Noah's three sons. Anyone who was not descended from Jacob (Israel) was a Gentile, as were everyone who came before Jacob.

Paul tells us in Romans 10:12; Galatians 3:7; 3:28-29; Ephesians 2:13-19 that in Christ we are all one in Him, neither Jew nor Greek (gentile) and are all children of Abraham due to our faith in Jesus. Together we are united in Jesus comprising "one new man" in Him, the promised Seed of Abraham to whom the covenant comes to fulfillment. Because Jesus is the true and intended final heir to the covenant made to Abraham, we in Him are made heirs to this covenant also because of our union with Christ.

Cheryl. I do not know how much more you wish to know on this topic. Maybe you can reply to me whatever you want further explanation. I will try to help with what you are seeking in your original post and any subsequent ones.

Even so, those of us who are in Christ are neither Jew nor Gentile

Hello Cheryl,

All of us are descended from the Noah, who had three sons. Noah was from the lineage of Seth (who was a son of Adam and Eve.

Noah's sons were Shem, Japheth. At the time of Noah and his sons, no one was a Hebrew.

You can read the lineage of Adam and Eve in Genesis Chapter 5. You can read the lineage of Noah in Genesis Chapter and 11.

Eber (or Heber) was the great grandson of Shem. It is from Eber that the name Hebrew came about People called them Hebaru.

All of the descendants of Eber were Hebrews, not just the Israelites. Abraham was descended from Eber in the sixth generation from Eber.

There were many descendants from Shem (Noah's son). These people were considered as Semites (which is derived from the name Shem).

Abraham was a Hebrew. So was Lot and Sarai. Abraham had eight sons-Ishmael (from Hagar), Isaac (from Sarai), and six more sons from Keturah after Sarai died. All of the peoples descended from the sons of Abraham are Hebrews and Semites. These are mostly the people who settled the Arabian peninsula and wilderness/ mountainous areas near Canaan. Isaac settled in Canaan with his father, Abraham. So, the Israelites are not the only descendants of Abraham, however, God told Abraham that it is through Isaac that are heirs to the promises (covenant) to Abraham ( Genesis 17:19)

Jacob and Esau were born to Isaac. They were twins. God determined that the promises/covenant God made with

Abraham and Isaac will be fulfilled through Jacob as the heir, not Esau. So, both Esau and Jacob were Hebrews, grandsons of Abraham, but the people God was going to call to Himself were to come from Jacob.

God changed Jacob's name to Israel and renewed the covenant of Abraham with Jacob. Jacob had twelve sons. These sons were

all Hebrews. Jacob's son, Judah was selected as the son by whom the Messiah would descend. The people of Judah's lineage were called Judahites, Jehus, and as a term of derision, Jews by the surrounding peoples.

see Part 2

YES!

We are made in the image of God, who spoke everything into existence.

We have God's indwelt Spirit and are His sons.

Jesus conformed this very fact in Mark 11:23

However we need to not only live in Spirit but walk in Spirit - Gal 5:25 . That is to be led of the Holy Spirit.

When God reveals something to you or puts a word in your heart, you are expected to speak it out, stand on it and establish it in this world.

And of course stand in faith resisting the principalities & powers of this age who will try prevent you from doing so.

If we go back to Eve. she gave birth ( Genesis 1:27,28;4:1,2;5:25). some of these offspring's died by means of old age,

Genesis 3:19; Genesis 6:3, violance or destroyed by the flood ( Genesis 6:5-7,11-13;17). Only Noah his wife, Shem, Ham, and Japheth their 3 wives survived. that means only eight people survived out of Adams and eve's children and grand children.

The point! not all of Noah's children listened to God. They followed Satan the devil and his lies Genesis 3. when you read about the Canaanites ( Genesis 13:7; Leviticus 18:1-5) this bad nation came through Ham descendance ( Genesis 10:6). or Ammorites, some Noah's descendance created a nation by their family name Genesis 11. When Jehovah ( psalm 83:18) confused their language they all spread out and became nations of people like you see today.

to the point: Abraham was a righteous man who lived in Canaan. but one of God's angels told him to leave Canaan then became a father to a nation of Israel ( Genesis 17:1-8). God name Jacob Israel ( Genesis 32:28). this is how a Nation of Isreal came about. Canaan land later became Jerusalem belonging to Israel the Jews.

However, Israel repeatedly sinned by worshiping other gods. even Solomon the last king worshiped false Gods ( Nehemiah 13:23-27) Jesus turned to the Gentiles which means nation who will believe ( John 3:16,17).

However, their are some Israelites who did believe, but most rejected Jesus.- Acts 1:6-8; Matthew 24:14; 2 Timothy 3:13-17



It's a lot of info. but I hope the bible answered your question HOW A NATION BECAME A INDEPENDANT NATION

Charlie Slaves on Ecclesiasticus 17:11

Questions as to why specific writings became 'apocrypha' and subsequently removed from the original KJV is simply that content therein cemented the foundation of the word giving greater understanding. A time for everything and everything has a time.

You are replying to a comment by "Charlie Slaves"

If you read from Genesis to Revelation their is a common theme. The Promise seed Genesis 3:15, Israel Gods chosen people , The coming one the messiah, Israel's disobedience and captivity, Jehovah ( Psalm 83:18) mercy and delivering his people from captivity because they repented. Even the book of Ruth played a part in the symbolic descendant role in the promise seed

Matthew 1:5.

How does the book of Esther add up? this book talks about Jews being in Shushan. The Jews were always in captivity by their enemies for their deliberate disobedience to Jehovah- Nehemiah 13:23-31; Esther 2:6 (Exile). Esther didn't have a choice; she was in exile or in captivity as while and taken to the kings house- Esther 2:8. Jehovah god blessed this situation because they relied on him when Haman tried to scheme or plot to destroy all the Jews Esther 3:5-15. This book is accurate because it matches the other books regarding Jews being in captivity or exile.



When you read the apocrypha does it match the bibles overall theme? does this puzzle pieces match?

does it complete the whole picture?

I hope this answers your question. Thank you

from John ray - View Thread to Reply

I hope that I can do this but I was wondering when you're reading scripture how do you know who scripture is talking about the unbelievers believers or both thank you for that other text you sent me

Mount Horeb REPLY:

John Ray: I hope I'm answering your question correctly. These scriptures will help.

We have an example of Jesus talking to his disciples. he was speaking in a illustration, but they took it quite literally.

by means of this, many left Jesus because his speech was shocking. Jesus viewed this as a betrayal. to leave him because they didn't get the point. the question is, why didn't they ask him to explain? they no longer wanted to follow him. These are what you call unbelievers. Peter and the twelve, did not leave Jesus; and believed that what he was saying meant everlasting life. even if they didn't understand what he meant, they believed that Jesus was send by God. Those who don't believe Jesus; He Considers these ones lacking faith, unbelievers, Goats, bad fruit, hypocrites, and slanderers etc. John 6:25-71

Unbelievers have a Father, And his name is... John 8:44,45; John 8:31-47

Thanks!

There is one who Jesus said spoke truth. we have examples: John 5:31-38; 2 Peter 1:21

Jesus wanted his 12 apostles including Apostle Paul to speak about him. This is why we have

these beautiful letters from the scriptures. These letters should not be distorted to fit ones own Selfish purpose

or view. what is written or said in the scriptures benefits us all if we want it. 2 Timothy 3:16,17

Good Morning,

I'm not sure if this the right section to be asking this question, As I read through the old testament trying to understand all that I can, I noticed it is the history of the Hebrew, so in the beginning it where did other people come from if this the Hebrew history, now we are all one in Christ, but before Christ where did other people come from who made them since God made man in his image ( Adam & Eve) Hebrew. So other nationality where did they come from , are we all Hebrew blood line

Adam,

For me, my children are adults, no grandchildren yet, and so, my skin in the game isn't the same as those parents with young kids. Even so, just like with abortion, we can continue to stand unwaveringly against immoral influences in our culture and especially the governmental strong-arming to silence citizens.

Like you, I don't want to just let this all happen without a reasoned resistance and the offering of a meaningful alternative to what is being pressed on us to become normative. Certainly there are some options already open for us: attending school board meetings and speaking up; being involved in the campaigns of candidates we can support with a good conscience; refusing to be involved with community events that feature these debasing lifestyles such as Pride celebrations.

I admit that I should begin to be involved in some of these ways. I certainly will continue to seek in prayer the direction the Lord would have me take at this crucial time. For those of us who experienced a very different U.S.A. culture growing up than what children are experiencing now we should be alarmed. Those who do not know such a different past have been acclimated to this immorality already. So, how do we speak to these folks who view our recall of our childhood as an "OK Boomer" moment.

The assault on the family has been going on for at least a century. Faith-filled godly family units are the foundation of an healthy society and culture as well as what God wishes to bless. All of what we have seen with alternatives to the Biblical family of a mother and father who are married and a positive and welcoming attitude towards having and raising children are an assault on God's order and His purpose for creating mankind male and female. It strikes at the core of human existence and is done so intentionally by those who use their power, money, and influence to bring about a radical change in everyday life in our country and the world. We all should be grieved.

Final thoughts on Evangelism and opportunities

In my earlier segment; mentioning prayer for people I wanted to say that I try to keep things scripturally focused. One example would be someone who is used to praying to saints from their traditions. In that case I will say according to the will of Christ; the Lord and focus on a person's spiritual needs; for instance with whatever their request is if it doesn't appear that they yet have saving faith.

Certain "catch phrases" or pretend debates among those preaching on the streets to get attention or other such methods I don't find appropriate. Another mistake I have seen is assuming that someone has a particular sin because they are involved with a sect that has a tendency to err in certain ways. So we assume innocent unless proven guilty; and even when we see apparent sin; it is the nature of sin which should be the focus; and also what triggers certain behaviors. There are a few people who are dangerous to be around on drugs or intoxicated. We also shouldn't get into lengthy discussions which may be interesting topically but taking time from our main mission which is to proclaim Christ and make Him be known. Also; although I believe in the doctrines of Grace (or 5 points of Calvanism); trying to get someone to understand such matters as to whether God has chosen them to repentance shouldn't be proclaimed. We SHOULD; however get past the misconceptions of "decisional regeneration" where we think we can live like hell and yet think we have "fire insurance". We also need to be careful not to look at those caught in sin or in a season of struggle and assume a person isn't saved. The Spirit will convict some and they don't need to be kicked when they are down.

Finally; seeing other believers should encourage us. We certainly should be teachable and appreciate wisdom and insight from those we meet who love the Lord. Eventually; hardship may draw more out to share their faith if He tarries.

Part 3 Evangelism and opportunities.

I will state here what I have said in other posts; I am not gifted in evangelism. I have found that myself and others can have supporting roles in prayer; both for those out there sharing with others and the recipients themselves. Offering prayers for people unless they wish something inappropriate is helpful as well; as was all I felt I could do a couple years back with someone whose son had been murdured and was still in grief. Nursing homes often; of course have individuals concerned with their own health; but also tend to have one or two individuals deeply grieved in concern for the welfare of others (as well as having difficult roommates). Some may feel too squeemish for those environments; but they can certainly make us more of a man or woman of faith as well as giving us a reality check as to how short life is when people start dying around us as time passes.

As to our gifts; some are better versed and have a gift of teaching; for example. To patiently go through scriptures and give and recieve attention from others takes discipline and some abilities on our part. Sharing the Gospel; a true one emphasizing His grace and our unworthiness certainly isn't divorced from our own experiences and weaknesses. There are some personal things others don't need to know about us; nonetheless we should all be willing to admit our failings; and hence bring out His righteousness as our standard for living; and living Hope. Those such as my friend in Pittsburgh who used to be "down and out" with drug issues can of course be uniquely able to relate with those who are still in that bondage.

In terms of organizations who do mission work such as feeding the hungry; it is good to dig in and read their mission statements to make sure they are viable. Posting specific instances probably won't be allowed here; my pastor was able to discover one place wasn't preaching the Gospel and stopped supporting them in Pittsburgh.

Hi David0921. Just to intrude to this good thread; I know that we've not found agreement on some things (even about presently being in the Great Tribulation), but in the matter of a (true) believer's eternal security, I do heartily agree with you. What God has saved & secured cannot be lost.

My sense is that those who believe that a Christian's security in salvation can be lost and/or that a Christian can never be sure that he is saved until that day when all have to stand before God's Throne, stands flawed, not understanding these fundamental Truths (both from Scripture & experience). And these Truths are: when we speak of a Christian, are we understanding only in a spiritual REFORMATION or in a TRANSFORMATION. And secondly, with the Christian's claimed faith: is it seen & believed by him as a PROFESSION or as a POSSESSION.

If we take the time to analyse these spiritual positions in our own lives, & yet not to be used for the judgement of others, then we can come close to understanding how a believer (whether a new 'convert' who responds to the Gospel invitation, or to an aged 'believer' who eventually allows sin to take hold & departs from the Lord) how he actually stands in regards to a true conversion & a faith that saves.

When we take all the Scriptures that supposedly prove that a Christian's salvation can be lost & all the Scriptures that prove that it cannot be lost, then we should apply those rules to see how a 'Christian' ought to behave & how the Work of God, His Spirit, does a complete, lasting, irrevocable work in the truly born again person. It is true that when we see a faithful Spirit-filled believer go the distance, never denying the Lord & His Work of Grace in his life, we know that that person has finished his course well. But the teachings & admonitions of the apostles (& of pastors today) were to encourage, warn & assist in spiritual growth & not to face God's Discipline. Those who had not the Spirit of Christ were none of His ( Rom 8:9).

Evangelism and opportunities

Today; I finally approached someone who I have walked past in the park before work each day for at least a month. He walked ahead of me then was seated nearby and finally approached me when I was coming out of the bathroom (and he was on his way in). He wasn't interested in gospel literature; hence the discussion terminated as I went on my way to work. Nonetheless; I could see that it was a Divine Appointment; as were others where people have been more receptive than I would expect based on my past experience.

I; sadly have often looked at sharing the Gospel or handing out tracts as a necessary duty; and have been rather sparse in my ventures in the last year and a half that I have moved back home with my parents in Eastern Pa. When I was in Pittsburgh; there was prayer before organized efforts for receptiveness; removing obstacles in hearts and minds and being fomented by the enemy. I have been with more than one Pastor who has started out with personal evangelism; or door to door in their neighborhood; then reverted to passing out literature for their church. The second method hasn't brought a single person to church from what i've seen even after many hundreds of pamphlets were passed out. A website has always brought a trickle of individuals in both cases; however. My opinion is that a demonstration of the power of Christ; as well as offering prayer for those in need whether or not they are interested in church attendance; and a clear message of the need for repentance need to always supercede clever marketing; which based on the results seems to be a disaster. We should tell people to go to ANY church that preaches truth; but first to those who profess faith but live in active rebellion we must warn; and that means making it clear that they have no right to Communion and that any confidence in a confession without POSESSION of the Holy Spirit means they have no part in the fellowship of the saints.

Sissy, I am glad you are with us.

The question is; of course just when we are not submitting to authority; and that is to happen when we are asked to go against the Lord and we are forced between our convictions and obeying the law. First of all what that is NOT is not complying because of our own personal financial interests being affected. Taxes certainly end up giving money to causes that are against our beliefs (not to mention a financial system not backed with any real value); but it is hard to tell just what percent is going to things such as supporting abortion clinics (which they claim isn't happening).

We also have situations where the welfare of our children or that of other innocent victims makes following orders or even being truthful come in question. As for us being believers; we can look at Paul's example where he usually handled imprisonment well; but there were times when he protested ill treatment being a Roman citizen for instance. That was probably focused on his being able to continue to freely preach the Gospel; or perhaps to ensure others could do the same. We also see examples where; for instance the King's edict to do the census was repulsive and wasn't folowed through for counting all the Levites.

Of course the example of dictators who are committing genocide means that they are no longer following their own governance as God intends. We see today many countries who are persecuting the church; to compromise and have a government sponsored and monitored state church clearly is unacceptable. If they burn down the churches; destroy our personal property; etc. we certainly in the USA have rights to protest; but where the line is drawn is in home churches; or praying as Daniel did even with the King's edict of a death sentence. The same could be said for public evangelism; and speaking out against today's political agenda. Persecution is coming; and the time when all nations shall hate us for His Name's sake. ( Matt. 24:9).

We can protest but still show respect.

Hello Adam,

These things concern me greatly, too. Back in the 60's and 70's the issue regarding sexual freedom was centered on sex outside of marriage and living together without being married. Birth control was the means by which people could freely indulge their sexual freedom without consequences and abortion was the back up plan. Their strategy worked so well that now it seems that most couples live together before marriage. society became desensitized to this sinful lifestyle and it became "acceptable".

Then in the 80's and 90's it was homosexuality that was being touted as the next barrier to eliminate in our communal sense of morality. The desensitization began full throttle with so many celebrities "coming out of the closet". Once society became so desensitized to this lifestyle, same sex marriage was next on the docket and then the right of homosexuals to adopt children.

Next, came the LGBTQ+ push in the last 20 years to include whatever sexual deviant lifestyle one chooses to pursue. Now in the 20's transexualism and gender fluidity is being pushed strongly. Bruce Jenner's decision was publicized with full embrace.

The most hideous aspect of all this perversion is the targeting of children these lifestyles cannot produce. The agenda is to groom and recruit more and more young people so that their % of the population increases giving their lifestyle more power and political clout. Parents need to wake up right now to what is going on in schools.

Having recently retired from public school teaching, I saw what was being proposed by the state dept. of of education and how it was being implemented in locale schools by first indoctrinating teachers and not allowing teachers to object without repercussions. I am glad I was able retire before all this social justice, equity, and social learning was required to be taught. I would have resigned anyway after speaking my objections, but covid brought about my retirement.

So sad what is happening.

Thank you David. You have spoken well.

Amen to you .

There are only male angels. No female or baby angels. There were all created at once. Immortals do not need to be replaced because they do not die. I suspect that is why Adam and Eve did not reproduce until after they fell. They saw the animals reproducing and they probably used 100% of their brains but they probably had no physical desire. Probably means just that probably, simply my opinion.

Plz note the woman in Rev.12:5 had to birth a Child which is the H.G. to lead her into the Kingdom....When he the Spirit of truth is come he will lead you into all truth (the kingdom).....But he cannot speak of himself simply b/c he is just an infant that new born babe desiring the sincere milk of the word...Unless ya receive the Kingdom of God as a lil CHILD impling that heavenly birth a spiritual birth.....As that which is born of the spirit is spirit thats the H.G. the Child of PROMISE....Whosoever receiveth one such child in my name receiveth me...ME....Thats how he will come again by the new birth....We are gona have a baby Christ....Thats y he always refers to himself as the Son of Man....Mankind is gona be married to Christ and bring forth fruit unto God... Romans 7:4....But Satan the dragon wants to destroy the woman and her children....Which are the Children of PROMISE....The multiplication of Christ in humanity via his precious seed the living word which is the contents of the book of life.... Jeremiah 30:6 saw all men in travail and birth pains....Which is that New Covenant that he wrote with his own blood at Calvary.... Jeremiah 31:34 I will KNOW them all from the least to the greatest and their sins and iniquities will i remember no more.

Behold me and the Children the lord has given me are they not for signs and wonders to the Children of Israel....They are an Israel of GOD.....Children that cannot lie so Jesus is their father....Simply b/c they are gona be born in us via his Precious seed....That was the great Promise that Christ wd be multiplied as the stars of heaven....Thus the sower/bridegroom and his seed....The wheat is a baby Christ....Simply b/c Christ is the bridegroom....Jesus said that the good seed are the Children of the Kingdom..... Psalms 8:2 For out of the mouths of babes and sucklings thou has perfected Praise that thou mightest still the enemy....Our carnal minds satans seat....Thus the babes and sucklings he mentions...Our New BORN.

Amen. Thanks for your kind words, GiGi. I still check what's being discussed periodically but have just been busy and haven't posted as much lately. There is a season for everything. I hope you are doing well and in good health.

David0921

David you said yesterday in one of your comments "I am personally convinced that we are in the period of the Great Tribulation".

Today you said "2 Thes 2 is speaking about the situation that is occurring during Great Tribulation within the churches and congregations prior to the return of Christ when God's judgment has fallen upon the churches because of their apostasy".

So wouldn't that be happening right now?

The Word of God tells us that True Believers are the church!

No offence David but it seems you are contradicting yourself here.

My last comment showing the (falling away) in ( 2 Thess. 2:3) to be True Believers is accurate Biblically. If we allow the Word of God to interpret itself, then we will be led into all Truth! If we try to interpret the Word of God ourselves, then very often we get confusion, and deception which can cause our understanding of other parts of Scripture to be misinterpretation, and deception.

Then many are deceiving themselves, and others, often without even knowing it.

Truth matters David. Without an open mind we cannot be led by the Holy Spirit.

Thank you or your reply.

Blessings.

Thank you Chris, for such a good response to Charlie,

I was wondering how to respond to his posts since they contain so much anti-Christian statements and promote many "New Age" thoughts.

I am glad that you replied to him at the core of what was to be addressed. Thanks again.

Always good to hear from you, Adam.

I have often heard from those who hold to a "once saved always saved" doctrinal position that those who fall away were never saved to begin with.

I wonder if they have ever told someone who falls away that they were never saved before falling away even though the person has called on the name of the Lord for salvation and professed faith in Jesus for salvation.

Such an approach towards people who fall away reflects doubt in Gid and His promises to save those who put their faith in Him and in His Son, Jesus. How can one be sure that they are saved if they may fall into a backslidden condition at any time and then be told that they were never saved to begin with? This is a very cruel way to address those believers who turn from Jesus. We do know if God will turn them back to Him at some time in the future.

We should encourage every believer to trust what God has promised in Scripture about believing on Jesus for salvation. We should never cast doubt on the veracity of what the Scriptures tell us on how we are saved-by faith in Jesus. Those we know who have turned away from the faith given to them by the Holy Spirit need to be encouraged to repent and return to Jesus, not tell them that their conversion was never real or valid.

Thank you for giving a balanced accounting of what the Scriptures actually say concerning salvation, assurance of salvation, and the possibility of true believers falling away from faith. The Scriptures do speak about both the reliability of the saving work of God in a person and also that one who has received this salvation can be preserved in faith by God AND also can fall awayfrom Christ by their own englect of their faith or some trial that sorely tests their faith unto apostasy.

As believers we are to guard our faith and to pray to endure unto the end. We are to treat those who 's faith has been sorely weakened with compassion and true concern for them to return to Christ. He seeks the lost.

Dear Javann, I am happy to pray for you.

Dear Heavenly Father, we present Javann before you in the nae of Jesus asking You to direct Javann's steps daily, leading Javann in the way You desire Javann's life to follow. Make Javann more and more aware of Your calling, showing Javann the path his/her future. We thank You that You have brought Javann to salvation in Your Son, Jesus, and given Javann the strong desire to live according to Your will. We trust that You will continue to help Javann grow in grace and knowledge of You and Your Son, Jesus, our Lord. Amen.