Bible Discussion Replies PAGE 3

  • Richard H Priday - 6 months ago
    Facing the future (Part 3).

    As judgment begins with the church ( 1 Peter 4:17) we need to be cognizant of this fact in order to prevent any further error to spread where the truth still resides. I am convinced that in recent times it is professing Christians who have caused those who are on fire for the Lord to have the most discouragement ( Matt. 24:29). Jesus warns about this immediately prior to His coming.

    We need as with anything else to be balanced; He will come and suddenly; but in His timing. We dare not lose our vigilance or get into the date setting camp. We all must watch as Jesus commanded. ( Mark 13:37).

    When we look into what is just around the corner we must realize that God has certain set plans that will come to pass in their time; that is specifically one world government; the Antichrist and the Mark of the Beast which must end in the armies of the world fighting Christ to their demise as He returns and kills them with the fire coming from his mouth ( 2 Thess. 2:8 for this progression). In the end time Tribulation period there will be a countless multitude saved who appear in heaven after the 144,000 ( Rev. 7:9). We remember that we will be part of the assembly in heaven who comes down with Christ in the armies from there when He returns.

    As we go forward; of course the main focus should always be on the Great Commission. This doesn't absolve us when we have a chance to stand for righteousness in society; but we should pray and seek Him before entangling in any issues that could hamper what our primary labor should be. Like it or not WE are the counterculture now; we are the fringe society (won't use the r right term fully spelled out to avoid getting flagged).

    Perhaps our best bet is what seems to have stood the test of time in recent decades; that is having a small group of people who fellowship together; and a small block or two which can be a sort of sanctuary in rough neighborhoods.
  • Richard H Priday - 6 months ago
    Part Two: Facing the future

    In our current stage; we do well to keep a healthy distance from spending a lot of time reading news. The best way to get some idea of the truth is to read alternative as well as mainstream news and try to piece things together. We don't want to react like Job in chapter 3; verse 25 when he said that essentially his worst fears came upon him. Easier said than done; of course.

    The mainstream narrative wants us to bring about a "self fulfilling prophecy" by conditioning the masses to react a certain way then have a "solution" to a crisis that itself is worse than the problem. It frequently exacerbates an issue by pitting one side against another; and usually is bias leaning far too much one way or another in international affairs. Alternative news brings a different angle but still can be biased. This helps us usually to hear about what is going on in nations that are of little interest to the West where nonetheless significant things are occurring.

    We know; of course that He is with us until the end of the Age; whether that be defined as the end of the church age; or the Second Coming. There are people still coming to faith; no matter how bleak things are. Think of how miraculous that is; with the majority (70 something percent) believing in God about 40 years ago; and now 26 percent (unknown poll my Pastor mentioned Sunday). By and large the churches are turning into the Whore of Babylon; let's face it between the political agenda and the merging of religions we definitely see a sinking ship with churches in general today. We need to keep in mind that the Laodicean church still has a remnant in it. There is still a Philadelphia church; I would argue even if the main period in history for that typology passed a hundred years ago. As Daniel says none of the wicked only the wise understand ( Daniel 12:10) and the righteous will shine like the sun ( Matt. 13:43). Let us remain as "salt and light" ( Matt. 5:13).
  • Richard H Priday - 6 months ago
    Part One: Facing the future

    To begin; let us squarely face reality as it is. Things are going from bad to worse; generally. There are some areas of the world where things may have actually improved of late; Thailand seems to be one example as to where until the last few years property could be obtained relatively inexpensively and it seems a lot has been done in general for the country to be more liveable; at least from the posting from someone that I have read for a while. Others such as Clayton Morris; who works at Redacted News and lives in Portugal seems to feel the same way; generally up until recently the cost of living is reasonable; and it has been relatively safe. Even an ad for Save The Children has a child admit that things got better for a while before they went into another decline; which I assume relates greatly to the drought cycle causing famine.

    It seems that we all are getting used to seeing police cars on the side of the road (at least in the better suburban areas that are still enforcing the law); and many of us are going to have to learn it seems to face a new day after being a block or two away from the latest shooting; or even being slightly injured in some criminal event and going back to work in a day or two; much like living in a war zone where in some areas there is still some business as usual.

    As I have stated before; dying to self is usually a process in sanctification until our bodily death; whether by natural or unnatural violence against us. Just how much time is left or how bad things will get before the Rapture and the Tribulation when there are "no holds barred" is the question. As with all declines of societies and with the rise of dictatorships imprisonment and physical assaults come gradually after harassment and intimidation. It seems for now mob rule is the norm; it likely will have to be replaced with severe measures no matter which political party is in control before we have total anarchy.
  • MotherMac - In Reply - 6 months ago
    Reply to Richard's prayer:

    Thank you for your prayer: All parts are helpful to strengthen us on our journey. However, I was helped whole heartedly

    with this part. May God bless you where ever you are_wherever you go_

    all the time. Help us to eliminate ALL things of the enemy that are distractions; whether music or entertainment if you show us that it is destructive to our walk with God. Show us all other things we are unaware of; whrough spiritual discernment that are leading us into sin; or blocking the effectiveness of our witness or prayer. May we trust you in lack as Paul did as well as prosperity.

    LORD; help us to live in victory! May we continue to believe that for every trial and day of suffering as Psalms says every tear is as a bottle; known and viewed by you.

    Thanks___
  • Kristopher Kupka - 6 months ago
    Faith is not a life-long journey.
  • Jesse - In Reply - 6 months ago
    Richard,

    It sounds like we listen to some of the same music. I have a CD of the Franz Family in my collection. They broke up as a group after the mother passed away. Emmitt Franz plays dobro now with the Petersen's (another great group) as you already know. I also have three CD's of the Petersen's, Homesick for a Country being my favorite. The song "I know who holds tomorrow" is probably my favorite on that album, almost as good as Alison Krauss and the Cox family.

    Sorry, I know this is not your main topic, but I got a little excited knowing someone else here listens to the same music as myself.
  • Richard H Priday - 6 months ago
    End of prayer for facing 2024 and beyond

    Lord; many are tired and perhaps like your Disciples at the Garden or all the 10 virgins falling asleep. May we learn how to have our strength renewed and be able to make proper "declarations" based on Your covenant promises; like Jacob did wrestling the Angel of God. May we see prayers that have gone for years finally being answered as well as having confidence that some may not be answered until you call us home or in the Tribulation or even Millennium. Help us love the unlovable; praying for our enemies; and be particularly sensitive to those you have repeatedly made to cross our paths no matter how difficult that it may be. Let us not be discouraged by vile words which cast doubts as to our faith being genuine which the enemy will use others to speak forth; let us realize that our reward is great as you said in the Sermon on the Mount. May it be You that they see and You that we truly find as our life and our hope and strength; and may we acknowledge that we are nothing more than sinners saved by grace. May we ever find time to pray for those on the mission field.

    Help us to eliminate ALL things of the enemy that are distractions; whether music or entertainment if you show us that it is destructive to our walk with God. Show us all other things we are unaware of; whrough spiritual discernment that are leading us into sin; or blocking the effectiveness of our witness or prayer. May we trust you in lack as Paul did as well as prosperity.

    LORD; help us to live in victory! May we continue to believe that for every trial and day of suffering as Psalms says every tear is as a bottle; known and viewed by you. May we realize our treasure and reward in heaven is growing proportionate to the suffering if it is indeed in You and not due to our own sins. Bring the good fruit in us to maturity; and purge us to produce more in Your timing. In Jesus' Name; Amen.

    Goodnight for now.

    Rich P
  • Richard H Priday - 6 months ago
    Further prayer for what is about to transpire from 2024 on.

    Lord; I ask that your people will learn at least in some churches to use various true spiritual gifts to edify one another; not just for their own worship and praise where it begins. I would ask for extremism to be avoided; so that there isn't manifestations that don't stem directly from you but also that we don't let our hearts become as a stone to seeing spiritual life wherever it comes.

    I am particularly grieved for those who are living in sexual immorality. Sin must be exposed; give us wisdom when to rebuke a brother in the Lord and when we need to give time and space for the Lord or the enemy of our souls to work on a man to bring him back to his senses.

    IF is is possible; may there be some sort of move of God especially with the youth that is lasting and kept from gross doctrinal or lifestyle error that contradicts the Gospel and ultimately quenches the Spirit. I feel it is far more important at this time to pray that the true believing church will discern error and run from it; and realize that JUDGMENT BEGINS at the house of God.

    To be jealous for His Name's sake; may it characterize those who represent the true move of God. May those who are in God honoring marriages be able to be given the respect; and may the world not be able to overcome what your covenant relationships represent. Also; I ask for many miraculous restorations of marriages and to keep many others from having marriages destroyed due to church approval or lack of efforts to deal with these matters.

    May we be able to warn as the Psalms say those who are unaware they are heading for destruction; particularly when it comes to the sanctity of human life. When persecution or martyrdom must come; may it be in defense of life and may it finally bring a TRUE ending of abortion or severe scaling back. May we all choose our battles carefully and in prayer so that we don't fight for things that are fading away.
  • Richard H Priday - 6 months ago
    Forging ahead: How to remain steadfast in the faith from 2024 onward.

    To avoid hypocrisy; and out of necessity for the topic at hand I will put out this prayer:

    Lord and Savior and Master Jesus: In a world that is held captive like the passengers on the Titanic; we uphold your promises as believers to be seated currently in heavenly places. We are in the world but not of it. We serve a risen Savior; and learn to suffer as He did and as the Word of God says You live within us; those who truly believe. This is not self pity; but victorious living when we know that the one we serve stands victorious and is seated at the right hand of God awaiting His command to commence with taking His church home and initiating the Tribulation judgments starting at the first seal and continuing until the last bowl of wrath.

    We acknowledge that all over the world your saints are going through trials; and that principally they are in the spiritual dimension either direct persecution and suffering; or alternatively temptation to sin through deception. I thank you Lord that there is still a vestige of the blessings in this nation of adequate food and clothing and shelter for many of us; but certainly not all in this country. May we be ready to give that up as the situation requires; and trust You to allow us to be the "head and not the tail" and have resources set aside as He gives us the ability for those who will be suffering lack in the breakdown of the economy and society at least before you take out Your church. YOU and you alone give us the strength to have courage and not fear; even the fear of death. We don't know how many will have to die of unnatural causes in the near future; or even know for sure our nation will make it until the Tribulation; although it would seem some from every country will. Help us all to hold to what is truly of you and teach us what we cannot recognize as remnants of our old man that give us comfort as well as keeping us from knownevil
  • Richard H Priday - In Reply - 6 months ago
    The Franz family was a good group say 10 years ago; now the one member is in the Peterson's and they don't seem to have much of a Christian ethic anymore. The most haunting song was something to the effect of "Wasting Away" which probably is the most convicting song I have ever heard describing the end stages of life for an unredeemed sinner.

    As to this series of posting upcoming; it isn't something I even want to discuss. I have my own issues at present with unsaved parents and conflict in the home where I may be forced to get them medical care against their wishes. I plan to challenge them in writing when I take a road trip in a couple weeks; as repeated discussions with my mom have led nowhere or to ambivalent response. I have people praying for me so won't belabor the point; but could always use more.

    I feel that it is necessary to warn of what is probably fairly obvious coming to our country. I wish I could say that I'm "gung-ho" if the Republican candidate becomes President again but I have my own concerns with him as an individual. Also it will take YEARS of painstaking effort before anything can become better; this business about things instantly being great is pie in the sky I would say; and unless we are readied for a struggle; not only the government but the populus as a whole will stop well short of any real gains. The situation at my church who I won't mention by name involved a lady who used to be Muslim but now is a Christian and what she will have to face after she returns from visiting town to her husband (will even leave the nationality out). I am sure this is commonplace; I only know one other person who was going back to family in Iran briefly in the past who said he would be burned alive if he told them of his conversion.

    We are more than conquerors in Christ; and He works all things out for the good for those who love Him; including spiritual rewards. Truth be told; lukewarm "fence walkers" won't stand in this hour.
  • Jesse - In Reply - 6 months ago
    Hi Richard,

    Great post! We are surely living in a peculiar time. It amazes me how young people see everything today as being normal. But of course, if that's all they know, it becomes the norm. I grew up in the 60's and 70's and things were so much better back then. The way things are going now, it can't be much longer before the Lord returns. At least, that should be our hope and prayer.

    With everything going on in the world today, it's hard for us to remain focused on the Lord, but that's what we as believers are called to do, keeping our eyes fixed on Christ. Satan doesn't play fair. Everything in this world is just a distraction to keep our minds occupied and away from the Lord.

    I have been enjoying reading your posts. Thank you! Also, the song Wayfaring Stranger is one of my all-time favorites and Hayde Bluegrass Orchestra does an amazing job on that song. Their rendition is by far my favorite. I stumbled on them about three years ago and was curious about what a bluegrass orchestra was all about.

    I'm a big fan of bluegrass music and bluegrass gospel. I play guitar, banjo, mandolin, dobro, and a little bit of fiddle. I was not too sure about Hayde Bluegrass Orchestra at first, mainly because an accordion in a bluegrass band is unheard of. I was completely impressed by their music and their lead singer Rebekka Nilsson has an amazing voice. I highly recommend others to listen to Wayfaring Stranger by these folks. Just don't get hooked and listen to it over, and over, and over again like I did. I just couldn't help myself. What a voice!

    Blessings to you!
  • GiGi - In Reply - 6 months ago
    Richard,

    My sister in law from grew up in Tanzania and she said that Sunday was a day of being in church all day long and into the evening with fellowship, prayer, and worship. I wish our churches in our country would begin to practice this opportunity now so that it will be established when the severest of trials come upon us.
  • GiGi - In Reply - 6 months ago
    Peachofateach07,

    Thanks for the update.37 weeks is full term so she has that going for her. Hopefully the fluid on the brain will decrease dramatically from here on. I pray that God will cause her to be able to intake what is provided for her so she can be nourished and grow during this time.
  • Richard H Priday - 6 months ago
    Where we stand at present.

    The state of our country is indeed grave. Before beginning to analyze what is likely to happen; as well as new challenges we will face as believers and the state of the church I will once again give a strong admonition to persevere in prayer. In Matthew West's song "Don't stop praying" (assuming that is the right title) he has a line that says let your knees wear out the floor. We need to take heart that Christ has won the war; but the individual battles rage on ever more fierce as the Day of His coming approaches.

    It seems clear from a brief scan of today's prayer requests on this site that some at least are quite tired and discouraged. We should all desire to be as the Philadelphia church who had "little strength" but holds on until the end. Perhaps many churches will only start praying when seeing individuals press forth and seek opportunities to get together rather than waiting for a formal time at the church for such a meeting. We need to heed certain foreign churches that basically spend Sunday ALL day in fellowship and in many cases hours in prayer. I am of the firm belief that some prayer should be available DAILY even in a small church and even if it sadly has to be virtual (much preferred live). Pastors need to seek prayer for their sermons; and Deacons and Elders should be transparent as well. Without prayer there can't be very effective evangelism; I know that from my limited experience on the streets and testimonies of others much more committed to that endeavor.

    With persecution inevitable in the near future of all forms there is a risk of many shrinking back without preparatory prayer.

    This can involve wisdom as well in planning for resources for others in times of need. I would also say that a strong focus needs to be on the Gen Z crowd; according to some poll my Pastor brought up today only 26 percent of them believe in God.

    The suicide rate and self destruction of youth is a number 1 killer already
  • Richard H Priday - 6 months ago
    In the Hayde Bluegrass Album there is a song about the Devil's deception called "Heaven and hell". Part of the last stanza says It's a race to the bottom

    And you're there with me.

    This folk group has Wayfaring Stranger and some other at least nominal Christian songs. But those two lines above really bring brings home an accurate picture of where society is; and the deception of the enemy. Perhaps this is even more on my mind today after ending 1 Peter today and warnings of deception from the enemy of our souls that our Pastor preached on; as well as a lady there who is visiting and faces persecution from her family for being a Christian. Just the local news is ever spinning out of control; from a couple dozen shot in Akron; to a double homocide in the Philly area where I live; to a shooting of 9 where I used to live in Penn Hills; PA where there were 2 or 3 fatalities from what I last heard; to massive riots involving hundreds at various beach locals in New Jersey where 12 were arrested.

    The encouraging thing is; of course the fact that these brief trials are nothing in comparison of the glory to come. ( 2 Cor. 4:17).

    Nonetheless; as Phillipians 1 states which we are doing an in depth Sunday school lesson on; Paul was in chains for years after establishing his first church; who he was able to rejoice in and remain in constant prayer for. Thankfully they were an integral part in growing and giving in his time of need.

    Today I also had a long debate with a Christian friend of mine as to how much we should take on resisting all the things going on politically that seem to be stacking up badly for Christians. I brought up the point that the focus has to be on spreading the Gospel first which I would say he agrees with. These certainly are not easy times to live in.

    In my next post I am going to take a matter of fact view of exactly where we are and what is almost certain to transpire in the

    next 6 months to couple of years should the Lord tarry.
  • GiGi - In Reply - 6 months ago
    Sam, I will be praying for you baby. Our first granddaughter was born May 28th. Such a blessing to have these babies in our lives now.

    It is stressful to have a baby in NICU. So much to be concerned about and such a disruption to the mommy/baby togetherness that is so treasured in the first weeks. I hope Mom is able to be with baby as much as possible.

    Our second child was re-admitted at 5 days due to newborn sepsis-a very serious infection. I was able to stay with him night and day while he was in an isolation bed with monitors and IV hooked up to him. I was able to remove him from the bed to nurse and rock. I was glad to be able to be with him. The hospital he was in had an unused wing where I could have a private room with a shower for when I needed to sleep. He was in the hospital for five days. He is almost 37 now, but I remember like it was just yesterday. May your baby grow and thrive and come home soon. Was she early or is there a different concern?
  • GiGi - In Reply - 6 months ago
    Hello Jesse,

    It is the practice of the Lutherans today to pour water over the head of the over the one being baptized. I do not know how they did in the 1500's when Lutheranism began.
  • GiGi - In Reply - 6 months ago
    Giannis,

    I agree with all you have written here.

    Although I was also baptized as an infant, when I was in college I did choose to be baptized by immersion as I wanted to make that choice to obey what the Lord said, to believe, repent and be baptized. Doing so did not invalidate my infant baptized, yea, it affirmed it as my parents presenting me to God to work His grace in me. And that did happen. But as an adult, I wished to obey Jesus' command for myself.

    Some churches refuse to re-baptize one who was baptized as an infant, believing that speaks against the efficacy of the former baptism. I do not think like this. The Bible does not say anything about this matter, neither recommending or forbidding.

    One thing we do not know about the NT church is whether infants and children were baptized when a whole family is said to have been baptized. So, we cannot really say that it was or was not practiced. Jesus did say to not hinder the children/infants to come to Him, so that is one indication that we are to present our children to Him to be baptized and be initiated into the body of Christ.

    When my sons were born, we did not baptize them as we wished for them to be baptized when they understood and believed the gospel and desired to be baptized. That never happened for them. But I do pray persistently for God to return them to faith and trust in Him.

    Also, I have seen many people who were baptized as infants/children who have walked away from the Lord. I do believe that God will draw them back to Him at some point, but in the mean time, parents should pray persistently for their children to come to Jesus as adults.

    So, which is the better route for Christian parents to take? I am not sure. In my life, being baptized as an infant showed its fruits from a young age as I have always known that God loves me and that Jesus died for my sins to save me. He has worked in my life from the start and kept me in the true faith. He provided His grace and mercy to me.
  • Ronald Whittemore - In Reply - 6 months ago
    Hi Tdianne,

    As to your question you have received several answers, my understanding in the Bible baptism is done only by immersion as the word means. As Jesse said sprinkling did not start until the 1300s and it was for the reason it was so inconvenient. So, this was done just because of convenience's sake, nothing Biblical about it. I agree with Giannis, and we must believe as Jesus said in Mark 16:16.

    All we do is to be done in our Lord Jesus's name, Colossians 3:16-17. Many use Matthew 28:19 but we also see in the rest of Scripture that a person who is baptized in Jesus' name is someone who believes in Jesus as Savior, the Messiah, the Son of God who for us died, was buried, and was resurrected we acknowledge this by being baptized in His name, Acts 2:38 Acts 8:12 Acts 8:16 Acts 10:48 Acts 19:5 Acts 22:16 Romans 6:3 Galatians 3:27 Colossians 2:12 Ephesians 4:5.

    Paul shows the importance of being baptized in the name of Jesus, Acts 19:1-6. God has placed Jesus and His name above all that is in heaven and earth, Matthew 28:18 Philippians 2:9-11. Salvation only comes in His name Acts 4:12 Romans 10:13. The name of Jesus is the source of power and authority for healing, miracles, and deliverance, Mark 16:17 Luke 10:17 Acts 4:7 Acts 4:30 Acts 16:18.

    We are to give thanks in Jesus's name, Ephesians 5:20. Our faith is through Him and in His name, Acts 3:16. We must believe in Jesus, John 3:16 John 6:47 Acts 16:31 1 John 3:23 1 John 5:13. Whatever we ask for we are to ask in His name, John 14:13-14. We are to pray to the Father in His name, James 5:14. Jesus is our priest and the only mediator between God and men, 1 Timothy 2:5.

    God bless,

    RLW
  • Giannis - In Reply - 6 months ago
    GiGi, 2/2

    The other thing often people say is that it is not important to be water baptized, it is the baptism in the Spirit that matters. Well, no. Those are two completely different things. Doing the first does not exlude us from the second and vise versa. Water baptism is something we have to do and the Spirit baptism is something that God has to do. We obey to God and God sends His grace to us. This is how this relationship works. It is a covenant, which means that both parts have to do their obligations so that that agreement is valid. Anyway, I know you agree to most I have written and if there are some things we are not in agreement it doesn't relly matter, we are still brother and sister and we are both going to Heaven. When I go up there one of the first things I will do is asking the Lord all my questions. GBU
  • Giannis - In Reply - 6 months ago
    Hi GiG,i 1/2

    I know that the churches eventually departed from the practices of the early church but this is why we read the scriptures, to go back to the practices and beliefs of that ancient church, isn't it? Otherwise why reading the Bible? So when we see that we do something wrong then we must correct ourselves, as individuals and also as a whole church. If we think like, it doesn't matter this, it doesn't matter that, it doesn't matter the other and the other, then we end up at something completely different. If you draw two lines that are not precisely parallel, in the begining we can't see any difference, but after a distance one goes to the US and the other goes to Greece. I believe you understand what I am saying. And most of the todays churches have gone thousand miles away from that early church.

    I agree with the anabaptists at this point. A valid baptism is through the fully immersion in water. Infant baptism? In my church it also isn't considered valid. I was baptized as an infant in the Greek Orthodox church but when I was born again at the age of 34 I had to bury that old Giannis in the grave which is represented by water and raise up to walk a new life. Anyway.

    The other question that often people ask is "do I have to be baptized to be saved"? And the answers are sometimes like " God saves and not my effords/works", which for me is something misleading. Why? Because it gives the impression to people that they can disobey God's commandements and still get away with it. Doesn't the Bible command us to be baptized? Yes, it does. So why do we still talk about it and not just do it straightaway. Isn't disobedience to God considered a sin? Yes it is. So if I don't repent and do the right thing, am I still eligible for His Kingdom? ie if God tells me not to steal and I ignore Him and keep stealing and don't repent, am I still going to Heaven? I doubt that.

    See part 2
  • Tdn2272 - In Reply - 6 months ago
    I believe that when we are born, we are born from the womb which is full of water. We are born into sin, because of Adam and Eve sinning. Being Baptised is being reborn into the Glory of God. So, total submersion would be a cleansing of the whole body under water just as we were born into the world through total immersion. Total submersion is being completely reborn in Christ, and is also a public proclamation to the world that we are being born a Child of God cleansed throughly of our sins through total submersion. Again, this is just my belief but to me it makes sense
  • Tdn2272 - In Reply - 6 months ago
    I hope i am not interfering when i post my beliefs on baptism, but i believe baptism is of a great importance in our Christian Walk. As i understand it it is as such. When we are born, we are submersed in water in our mothers womb. Now, since man and woman sinned in the garden of eden, when we are born, we are born into sin. I understand about reaching the age of accountability and all of that, but here is my two cents worth. Because we are born on this earth of woman we are born into sin. When we are baptised we are again submersed into water completely, to be born again into fellowship with Christ. Thus acknowledging to the world that we are no longer of this world, we are just in this world. Our submersion into the water allows us to be born again into Christ. Baptism is also a way of telling and showing the world that we are Children of Christ, and baptism is proof of that. Baptism washes away our sins and we begin a new life with Christ as a baby and learn as a baby growing continually in the knowledge and Glory of Christ. I pray each of you grow continually in Christ as i am attempting to so Christ can receive the Glory. Amen
  • Jesse - In Reply - 6 months ago
    GiGi,

    Sorry, I should have asked in my other reply to you. Is what you're telling me, is this the way the Lutherans baptize today? What I was told, and what I shared with Tdianne was how they baptized around the year 1600. If you have different information on how they did it back then, can you share that with me? Thanks, off to bed now. I am two hours later than where you're at!

    God bless!!!
  • Judith Booysen on John 16 - 6 months ago
    John 16:24.

    The disciples prayed to the Father, so Jesus said, "you have not asked anything in MY name yet" I believe Jesus did not mean that whatever we asked is regarded as nothing, in comparison to everything we could still ask. I believe Jesus taught His disciples to pray to the Father, but now he is starting to show them that they could pray to the Father in His name, even after His death more so because He completed the work of salvation through His death and His resurrection and was taken up, to be seated at the right hand of the Father to intercede on our behalf. Now we pray... Father in the name of Jesus...Before and in the Old Testament prayer was made to the Father.

    Thanks for opportunity to share.
  • Jesse - In Reply - 6 months ago
    GiGi,

    Thanks for sharing that info on Lutheran baptism. I never actually witnessed how the Lutherans performed their baptisms. What I shared was something that was passed on to me years ago.

    Blessings to you and congrats on your new addition to the family. Grandchildren are such a blessing. I have two, a grandson and granddaughter.
  • GiGi - In Reply - 6 months ago
    Kevin,

    Your prayers and desires for the rescue and reformation of the Catholic church is a common action of those who have left this denomination. Goo for you. We should be praying for those who call themselves Christian yet teach wrongly concerning the gospel concerning salvation. I agree with you in your prayers for this sect.
  • GiGi - In Reply - 6 months ago
    Jesse, well said, it is the Spirit that baptizes us and indwells us.

    One thing, the Lutherans do not sprinkle-they pour water over the head of the one being baptized three times saying the words "I baptize you in the name of the Father (pour water) and the Son (pour water) and of the Holy spirit (pour water). I think this is the way that Episcopalians baptize, Catholics, and other "non-immersers" I don't know who sprinkles.

    But in any case, our baptism is our testament of what God has done in us through His

    Spirit to unify us with Christ and the church.
  • Jesse - In Reply - 6 months ago
    Tdianne,

    (Part 3):

    The Jews had no idea why they immersed 3 times for their baptism. But after Messiah came, and when Messiah gave the believing Jews the commission to go out and preach the gospel to the Gentiles, He said, baptize them in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, three times for the Trinity. Very interesting background!

    By now, you might be thinking I really haven't answered your question. Well, when I think of true baptism, I think of the ministry of Jesus Christ. According to scripture, the baptism of the Holy Spirit is the Lord's ministry. Baptism means two things, cleansing and identification.

    When Christ comes into my life, I am cleansed because He sends His Spirit into my life. Jesus' ministry was to baptize people with the Holy Spirit, not water baptism. The qualification for belonging to Christ isn't what I experience in the past, nor what my decision in the past was, but rather it is based on the presence of Christ in me.

    God's Spirit in me is the guarantee that I belong to the Lord. Water baptism comes after salvation. True baptism is when Jesus baptizes us with His Spirit. Is there a right way and wrong way to be water baptized. That's something each individual should decide for themselves. It's between them and the Lord. I say full immersion because that's the way the early church did it!

    Blessings to you!
  • Jesse - In Reply - 6 months ago
    Tdianne,

    (Part 2):

    Now, when we get into the New Testament, we learn about the ministry of John the Baptist known as Yochanan ha Matbil, John the baptizer. The immerser is the literal translation from the Greek.

    Also, John's baptism is different from Christian baptism. John's baptism only had to do with the Hebrew or Jewish people. They had to come down and be baptized by John to show their repentance in order to receive the Messiah. Baptism amongst the Jewish people meant change. Anything that was a major change in their life, they had a baptism for it.

    Also, something very interesting about Jewish baptism is that the Jews, they immerse. It wasn't until around 1300 A.D. that the Catholic Church began sprinkling. Around 1600 is when the Lutheran group, who eventually became the Lutherans, began to use sprinkling. The Jews used immersion. Everything had to be immersed and you had to be immersed three times. Even to this day the Jews immerse three times in their baptism.

    Today, the reason why many immerse once is because Constantine decided around 313 AD to change it from three times to one. He hated the Jews, so whatever the Jews did, he changed it. He did this just to get back at the Jews. So, Constantine says the Jews dunk three times, so we are going to dunk once! And that is where we got our baptism today.


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