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For was not the promise given that when the Holy Spirit of truth shall come ,He will lead us into all truth? How is it then that the church does not know the truth of this most important matter? For the Lord said even to his close dis poles who walked with Him on earth " be ye also ready" for is it not written "the Bride has got herself ready"?.
And it is clear they thought his return was imminent then . But in Hebrews it is written that " God has at sundry times and in divers manners spoken to us in times past but " in these last days has spoken to us bybHis Son." If they were the last days 2000 years ago how much the more are we in them now .? Indeed on the way to Calvary the Lord said to some weeping women " if they do this to the master when the wood is green what will they do to the servants when it is dry@"? Truly the wood now is very dry and ready for the fire .
I nce spoke to some theological students of a college in London and they told me how they were taught all the different opinions of men some of which you related to in yiur pilots of what goid is a man's opinion? It's the truth we need!
Therefore may I suggest the primary cause is an over reliance on man's own thinking and understanding subjecting the s ruptures to our own tninking rather than let the Holy Spirit lead us . For I hold to the principle or fact that as the same Holy Spirit was needed to inspire men what to write so in and by the same measure men need the same Holy Spirit to help us understand what is written . For Saul of Tarsus hadHebrew as his mother tongue ,he spoke Greek too etc but did he understand the scriptures? No!
But so misunderstood them he persecuted the church .
The harasses and Drs of the law understood Hebrew ore than most yet did they understand the scriptures? NO! They so did not understand the scriptures they crucified Him of whom they spoke of.
Well stayed!
Blessings
i would be very thankful for your answers.
thanks
zorro
I will pray for God to bring relief from arthritis in your joints. I have the same thing in most joints from my feet to my neck. Most days I get by o.k. but if I do too much work that overuses one or several joints I get into more pain. So, I hear ya!
We can keep one another in prayer in this respect.
And, the situation of Mr. Kirk's murder is terrible and we should certainly be praying for his family and friends. Glad that he is a believer and will inherit the promises Jesus bought for us who believe.
John 14:21
"He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him."
Matthew 24:35
"Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away."
Blessings
I believe some of the key elements in that important topic is what covenant was in order when Christ started his ministry?
Who was it to?
What was the promises given in that covenant?
Was the second covenant a plan B?
and of course "Could both covenants save?
I'll set back and share my thoughts soon.
Blessings.
Thank you, this is my understanding.
I understand many believe in the rapture, some say pre, mid, or post. In all three views, we are taken to heaven. I have not found any Scripture that explicitly states we are taken to heaven; it is an assumption, and it must be read where it is not written. I don't see the bride mentioned in the rapture doctrine; that's another discussion.
I see the coming of Jesus not as a secret event, but as one the world will witness. This is supported by Scripture: Matthew 24:29-31, 1 Corinthians 15:51-54, 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17, and Revelation 19:11-16. This event occurs after the seventh angel sounds the last trumpet, Revelation 11:15. Then, we see the angel summoning the birds for the battle of Armageddon.
The ones in the first resurrection, Revelation 20:4-6, will be with Jesus during the battle, Revelation 17:12-14. Afterward, we observe the judgment of those in the first resurrection, Revelation 20:4.
A thought, over the past nearly 2000 years, believers in Christ, the body of Christ, the Church have faced beheading, burning at the stake, being placed on poles soaked in oil, lit as lamps along roads, among other horrible deaths. Why would the last of the Church be spared? We have been told we will face much tribulation, and if we endure, Matthew 24:9-13. The Great Tribulation and the wrath of God are not the same.
God bless,
RLW
The salvation of men both Jew and gentile during the great tribulation is the main harvest . And the salvation of men after and during the time when the devil is loosed for a season are the "gleanings".
For during the millennium all nations will be ruled with a rod of iron nd be forced to conform but after a 1000 years of righteous rule over the whole earth and all the benefits that flow from that ,Satan is listed fir a season so that all will be free to make their decision . Then cometh the end . For all are gathered in that will be gathered in and those who prove to be the children of the devil the seed of the serpent will be utterly destroyed and cast into the lake of fire .
Then there will be a new heaven and a new earth and all that offended will have been cast out .
It is interesting to note ,that the earth was first baptised with water ,then with blood then with fire .
It records its services and publishes them online . WVFC London .
There are also podcasts of recorded messages by Dr Albert Chambers founder of said ministry either on podcast or WVFC archives.
Always very profitable to hear .
Gerald
" Unless God builds the church them that build build in vain "
The tabernacle in the wilderness was not of Moses own making and imagination but rather it was after the latter he saw in heaven and thus Hods blueprint . Not man's .
It was of such exactitude that any deviation from it brought death .
How can any man learn the Holyness of God if not by it?
" and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it" Somehow ithas crept into the churches thinking that it's the gates of hell attacking the church and not prevailing that has taken hold of the people of Gods Indo .
But when has ANY gate attacked snyone?. We are talking about the dates of a walked city here . The gates being the weakest part of the wall are thus the most heavily guarded .
I don't all together understand what that phrase means . But this is certain it is the gates of hell that are in trouble not theChurvh of Jesus Christ .
This though is true . Adam if he had not eaten of 'that'tree would never have died. Jesus could not die nor could "anyone take His ife from Him" But being born under the Law and for sin laid down his life.
Now the death has a sting and it is sin "and the piwer of sin is the Aw " Death couid not keep him out for " He who knew no sin became sin" " open up ye gates.." Death and hell could not keep Him in for he had not sinned Himself .Thus God couid raise aHim from the dead having fulfilled the law .
He tasted death for every man and took out the sting of death . Are we not " Crucified and buried with Christ"?
Is it not written we are raised together with Christ also?
His witnesses must be to His resurrection and a transformed life by not being dead but alive unto God and the darkness over cometh it not . Fir sin has no more dominion over you in Christ . And He in you.
For what is MORE than a conqueror ?
I suggest you read Rev. 18 where Jesus identifies Himself as "the Almighty"
Good to hear from you once again.
The murder of Charlie Kirk is a terrible event. He was not an elected official, but a citizen expressing his political and religious views, for which he was assassinated. That is chilling for the rest of the citizens of this country. It could happen to anyone who speaks their own mind on such topics. It could happen on "both sides of the aisle".
Let's keep the Kirk family and friends in our prayers and not let this incident deter us from exercising our civil liberties and rights lawfully guaranteed. But exercising our rights does come with risks, as this incident demonstrates. Therefore, not only courage is required when we speak up, but also and even more important is that we are led by the Holy Spirit in all we say and do in the midst of a perverse and wicked generation.
And if now we are any different it is because " God commanded the light to shine in our hearts" it is worth noting that in the beginning God commanded the light to shine in the darkness and THEN began to do a work of recreation of the earth .So
Likewise when God commanded the light to shine in our own hearts I then God begins to work in transforming our lives bring the order of the kingdom of God and it's peace where there was once disorder and chaos.
But it should be noted that exposure to truth changes no one but it is our response to it .
Thus as God through the Word enlightens our understanding not only of the nature of the old man but also of His nature we are by degree and measure changed and grow onto conformity with Him.
Not only repenting of what we have done but also what we are .
It was to some Christian's Paul said " ye are yet carnal" and to be carnally minded was death and "which could not receive the things of God" It was also to other Christians he prayed that " the eyes of their understanding may be opened" For while the devil may not be able to stop us being saved he can still blind us to what is " towards us who believe" or ours IN Christ .( Ephesians ).
We must know something of the resurrection power of Christfor how can we be BORN again without that power? But clearly Paul is speaking about far more " that is towards us" than we have yet to realise or understand .
For how much power does it take to raise the dead?
I don't think God broke into a sweat so to speak "when He raised Christ Jesus from the dead "
But the church in its present state knows little of it .Nor then the world
God Document is about Jesus Christ by whom all things consist. So the Law and the Word set the kingdom of light in terms of opposites. To borrow a term from cinematography we have a shot and a reverse angle shot.
God divided light from darkness. At the end of the narrative we have the blessed saits in the light of the Lamb while the outer darkness is isolated from the throne of God and of the Lamb.
Christ and anti-christ are as opposites as light is defined as without darkness. Israel as an ensample to what a heart not right before could do.
God fashioned all hearts alike and tries their works. Either your heart is where the treasure is in heaven or darkness all enveloping.
God sent his only begotten son who was the bread from heaven. He was anointed with oil of gladness. The Word gives us two example to show man is complete in him as Col.2.10 states.
The woman who anointed Jesus before his burial bears the testimony'that this woman hath done, be told for a memorial of her.'(Mt.26.6-13; Mk14.9) He assured her,"And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace."(Lk.7.50). She is named Mary. Her name was already written in heaven to indicate her salvation was bound with his own anointing in heaven.(Ps.45.5) Her own glory which was her hair she put to service."Then took Mary a pound of ointment of spikenard, very costly, and anointed the feet of Jesus, and wiped his feet with her hair: and the house was filled with the odour of the ointment."( Jn 12.3)
Second instance was the nameless boy whose free willing offer of five loaves and two fishes was a testimony of his life in the flesh provided continuity in the new heaven and new earth. These two instance serve both were complete in him and serve as the reverse shot.
I have seen some of their discussion. I hope I am on the same page. The Church/body of Christ started at Pentecost, as we see the Lord added to the church daily, Acts 2:47. It was several years after Pentecost before Paul was converted and sent to the Gentiles. To the Jews first. Philip the evangelist was the first to carry the gospel to the Samaritans.
In James, his letter was sent to most likely many who were at Pentecost. It is misunderstood that the gospel to the Jews was different than Paul's. Like James 2:14-18, the works here are not works of the law; it is works of faith, that we will be judged, not for salvation but for rewards.
We see in Ephesians 2:11-16 that there is no difference; the body of Christ is made up of Jew and Gentile. Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. There are not two gospels; there is no other way of salvation, regardless of what nationality we are.
I hope this is what you asked. Good to hear from you.
God bless,
RLW
I've provided answers to your questions and tried to cover everything. If I missed anything, please let me know.
1."are they incorporated into Christ's Body, the Church, as we are?'
YES, The Jews who believe in this present dispensation are.
2."how does the promises and covenants given to national Israel impact them, if at all?"
It has no impact on the Church/Body of Christ. We are a new creature.
3."I don't see the saved of Israel as being inheritors of those old covenants, since they are part of Christ's Body now."
You are correct, my apologies if I wasn't clear or misspoke on the subject.
4."Those of national Israel who die now without Christ, go the same way as any Christ-rejecter does & under the same judgement."
This correct.
5."But those who are alive when Christ comes again, first in battle, then in rule in Jerusalem, will then believe in Him as their Messiah and those covenants will be fulfilled as promised to them"
This is also correct.
6."But for the Church today, both Jew and Gentile are one people ("for there is no difference"), and their birth and heritage badges being removed, now being one in the Body of Christ"
Correct, the one new man.
It appears that you have a good understanding of my position.
If you hold a different position I'll be happy to have that discussion.
Grace and Peace.
The " come up hither " of revelation .
It is as "the time of Noah " where you have Enoch who was translated and did not see death fir God took him before the outpouring of Gods wrath upon the earth .
Noah was saved through that flood .
The misunderstandings primarily come from the false idea that every one in te church will be iris automatically in the Bride and thus raptured . But there are scriptures that clearly show people get saved during the " great tribulation" so to square that circle we have all the pre post 3/4 millenniums etc .
But once it is understood that to be BORN again qualifies us to "run the race " but does not win us the prize that you have like the first Adam who's bride came from his body so too the Bride Christ will also come from the main body of the last Adam .
One verse here or there will not resolve it all . But using all scripture gives us a more perfect picture of the Bride .
Every true BORN child of God is called " to that high calling" even as the Spirit of Christ is outside the church knocking on its door is a call to repentance of the whole church but the promise is given to those " who have ears to hear AND open the door.."
The 10 virgins speaks of the church . The division is between the wise and foolish .
The Lord is coming FOR His bride who will meet Him in the air .
When she has gone all restraints on thecspirit of antichrist will have been removed and he will be given his enthusiasm if rope .
Those found not ready will suffer martyrdom " as through fire"..
Then thecLord will come WITH His bride to judge the world in righteousness .
Understand the nature character and disposition of the Bride and much of the other ' problems' get resolved .
The answer therefore is also the same faith in Jesus Christ and His all sufficient sacrifice for sin.
Abraham being the father of the (now) faithful be they of circumcision or uncircumcision.
Those from Abel onwards were saved by faith looking forwards to the promise .We are saved looking back to that sacrifice .
Both look forwards to the coming of the Lord .
While Hews are being saved today the bulk of them ( albeit a remnant) will be saved in a day when they " see Him who they had pierced" when the Lord comes to save them from the armies of the antichrist surrounding Jerusalem and nigh n ready to destroy them all .
But fir an over all picture of things we can do no better than to go to the letter to the Romans chapter 9 and we see Paul's understanding in some measure of the children of Isreal .
The present State of Isreal is not the salvation of the Jews nor is it the fulfilment of the last two or three chapters of Deuteronomy .But it is in part a work of God . God did not give the children of Isreal the promised land because of theur righteousness but because of the exceeding " wickedness of the inhabitants" .
And God has not given them what they have because if their righteousness but because of Gods righteousness. For while the world counts the UN as the highest body ho by its 'democracy' gave them that homeland ,then they cannot uphold the terrorists who seek to deny them such a place without undermining itself nor can the Palastinians hope to establish their own State by tha body but at the same time undermine or seek to destroy the State of Isreal on the face of it established by the same body .
And in the measure by which the world judges Isreal will be the measure God will judge the world .
The church is to show the Jew mercy .
"Let us make man in our image" so God made Man out of the dust of the earth .
We have in many ways forgotten that woman was made from the body of the man .
That his bride so to speak came from his body.
So too the Bride of Christ will come forth from His body .
Man is a tri part being reflecting the trinity of God a pale reflection at that of mind body and spirit .
And it can be argued that "He who made the ear can He not hear etc has also a little to do with it also .
But of the Lord Jesus Christ who as and is " the express image of the invisible God " the Word made flesh" .
1John1 must be one of the most profound verses of scripture in the whole Bible .
And we read and say it often but it is a deep well of the purest water we drink little of .
Man is imperfect an often quoted excuse for failure but true all the same . But Man was not created imperfect fir who can say God created him imperfect? Or not " very good" . But he was corruptible. For only God is incorruptable. Thus anything God created was not God and thus corruptible. Not that God willed they be corrupted for dad He not reveal His will when He said" of all the trees in the garden you may freely eat ,( that inclyded the tree if life) but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil thou shalt not eat fir in the day you eat you shall surely die" Thus God revealed His eternal will that an should love and not die .
Confirmed by Moses " I put before you life and death .choose life" ." Man shall not LIVE by bread alone.." " I have come that you might have life.." etc etc etc shall we speak of John 3:16?
What as all this to do with the trinity of God? Someone asks .
God is light and the closer we draw near to God the more zGod reveals about ourselves .We are seeking to enterthe Holy of Holies . "Be ye hol for I am Holy" True revival is a return to Holiness and while many speak of The Spirit and ' the anointing' .
We need to remind ourselves from time
"But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost./In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
We all belong to woke generation. The word has been in use since 30s. It has a cultural context but here we use in the sense the manner the devil has beguiled Eve and ever since nations have been rallying under a beast who is the son of perdition. The shroud that covers the nations are being pulled apart by God.In Isa.25.7 we read it as a shroud "cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations." It may be mass hysteria where a mere reading of the War of the worlds created panic.in the streets.In 1938 people showed how irrational fear could be. Eugenics programs jumped across continents forced sterilzation in the USA was driven by fear and culture than science
We see also anti-woke. In Tennessee we recently found a county Sheriff was idolized as a hero but now McNair county does not know what do with one who staged an ambush, which is a museum of sorts but it covered domestic violence by a brute who smashed his wife's jaw and shot her in cold blood. Is bringing a victim of domestic violence. If truth is br and giving her justice denied is it good or bad? Conservatives have their heroes but revering a lie or being 'woke' suddently raises temperature! Will the patriots of Jan 6. Capitol and their instigator end up on Mt Rushmore? Poor Emmet Till was lynched on a a lie. The woman who casused it confessed before her death that she lied. Was she woke? Tulsa massacre was hushed up and thus nation fool themselves. God recognises only two nations. Consider to which nation you belong, nation of light or of darkness? The rest are fodder for fire and destruction,
There is a repeated pattern of scripture where God uses the body of man to describe things of God .
" Man shall not live by bread alone but by every Word that proceedeth from the mouth of God "
" He who made the eye can He not see? He who made the ear can He not hear? Is His hand short that He cannot save? .."
Now it is written " My ways are not your ways and as the heavens are above the earth so are my thoughts higher than yours"
Are not words expressions of thought? Then clearly Gods thoughts are higher than man's thought . But while His reasoning is so much higher than ours that does not mean it is unreasonable and while the logic of His reasoning is so much higher than ours that does not mean his logic cannot be followed or His reasoning incapable of being understood . For if it was how could any man have faith in God when that faith in God comes not only by hearing the Word of Gid but understanding it also .
Are not the scriptures themselves given so that we might see or understand things from Gods perspective? For primarily the scriotures are a revelation of God . Is it not also written " but be ye transformed by the renewal of your mind"?
"The foolishness of God is wiser than the wisdom of man": Far better then to be wise in Gods eyes and a fool in the worlds eyes than it is to be a fool in Gods eyes and wise in the worlds eyes .
God saves our soul ,quickens our spirit and we must also learn to think and perceive things from Gods perspective .
For was that the whole problem in the beginning ?
Did not Eve " see that the tree was good to eat " Yet God saw that it was evil to eat . And she reasoned thus " it would make her wise " and she then did eat .
Man has been doing what is good or right in his own eyes ever since .
And that awful refrain in Kings and chronicles in nearly every chapter " and they did evil in the sight of God"
We ust be led by the Holy Spirit into tnis truth also.
We must get our approach right . Even though we can " now boldly go into the presence of God" that does not mean we do so carelessly but it does mean " that if our approach is right " Our Father who are in heaven ,hallowed be thy name." We " might find grace and mercy in time of need":. For in John 17 the Lord prayed that we the church might be one even as He and the Father were one". Thus some right concept of the Trinity wouid ge very profitable fir many reasons but perhaps above all for having a right understanding of the true unity of the church which is His body .
If again we take the tabernacle as the pattern there is but one door or curtain into it . That is Gods way . And it is through Jesus Christ and the blood that was shed in the open so to speak is the only ground of aproach which is then carried into the Holy place and the Most Holy place. In the outer court we see things with the natural eye . But if by faith we enter the Holy place the curtain closes behind us and there is no ' natural' light but that of the 7 branched oil lamp speaking of the Spirit and the bread speaking of the Word and before us the altar of incense speaking of constant prayer.Here we walk not by sight but by faith by the Word of God and the Spirit of God . If I am labouring much on our approach itbus because it is so important and indeed for much else as well and in particular for our prayer life . For I think though the scriptures encourage us to enter boldly, much has been forgotten as to where we are seeking to enter!
But that is another subject .
Now while any true born child of God might have trouble articulating the truth of the matter or even understanding n any measure .No true born child of God should allow themselves to be moved away from the truth of it fir are we not BORN again by thecwill of the Father ? Through the Son ? By the Holy Spirit ? The Spirit of Truth will barecwitness with our spirit the truth of it and so we stand
I'm not sure if you have been following those posts by Lbooth1955.
The context of him answering Brother Chris reply was are they (Israel) mentioned in James 1:1 and James 2:1 incorporated into Christ's Body, the Church, as we are?'
If not are they saved some other way?
It's a important salvation issue!
Not a eschatology debate that can easily derail topic.
I don't think Lbooth1955 answered Brother Chris reply with those 3 pages.
Blessings.
If a person is BORN again only by the Word of God ( " water") and the Spirit of God and not by his intellect etc then clearly in this matter also we must have and can only rely on the Word of God and the Spirit of God in this high matter also .
Now while it is a subject"hard to understand"that does not mean we cannot have some solid foundations for our spiritual thinking / understanding.Can I definitively or anyone pin God to the board of our minds like dead butterflies often are? No.
But if you look at most if not all attempts ( as you also have noted) to 'describe' or understand the trinity they are all unbiblical and thus are built on sand and lead to more confusion than light.
Thus we must look only to the scriptures for clarity.Moreover let it be understood that we are talking about the Godhead here and are to all intents and purpose seeking to enter the Holy of Holies . We must tread carefully and with the greatest respect and reverence. No unregenerate man has a hope of entering here . They are not even in the camp so to speak . A camp of over 2000,000 people surrounding the tabernacle But ket it be also understood no ' curiosity' or vain looking will either nor a carnal minded Christian either.Get a right approach.
Romans 3:31"Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law."
2 Corinthians 3:3 "Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart."
John 5:29 "And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation."
Blessings
I hope you don't mind me asking just a few questions. I am trying to follow. I understand, as you have presented, the Church is raptured, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18, 1 Corinthians 15:51-53, and taken to heaven. You say, "Rightly dividing the scriptures and letting scripture interpret scripture". Where in these Scriptures does it say we are taken to heaven?
You say the rapture is before the seals, trumpets, and bowls; these three are the wrath of God. How does that agree with 1 Thessalonians 4:16 and 1 Corinthians 15:52? Do you see the rapture as secret?
You say that after the rapture, the antichrist rises, and the 7-year tribulation starts, where only those not in the body of Christ and Israelites are left. How does that agree with 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3, where Paul is comforting them not to worry that the coming of the Lord will not happen, before there is a falling away/apostasy, and the man of sin is revealed?
Will the Church/the body of Christ be in heaven or on earth during the 1000 years?
Is the great tribulation and the wrath of God the same thing?
Thank you, I hope I have quoted you correctly.
God bless,
RLW