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That said, and with your desire to share from the Word in the manner you're doing presently, is very commendable, even though eliciting very few comments to your presentations. Personally, my view (and not to say, an accurate one), is that these lessons are very likely those you have already shared or planning to share with your study/prayer group, and now given here for our knowledge & encouragement, with hopefully, comments that might be also useful to you. I sense this because of the references you've made to your ministry to others, particularly the aged home you visit. Your genuine faith & love for the Lord, His Word & His people clearly comes through your posts, so I perceive no ulterior motive on your part in what you believe is a necessary & encouraging ministry. GBU brother.
It is sad that this has been the case for the past 200 years in America and England, too. The Holy Spirit is not the source of much of these happenings or teachings or "manifestations". We do need to be watchful and skeptical so we will question what come out as the "newest thing" in Christian circles.
If we follow the wisdom we read in the Epistles we will spare ourselves a lot of deception. I hope you will continue to post on this. There are those who may reconsider how they view the teachings of these aberrant viewpoints and free themselves from its hold on them.
I am glad you are my friend here. And I am glad you are willing to tackle some topics that may cause others to be uncomfortable. Have a blessed night. Still waiting for baby Rosie to arrive. Should be any day. Hope some day this week!
We each should regularly ask the Lord to search us as to our motives and to have any sinful way brought to our attention by the Holy Spirit. Your transparency here is refreshing. This forum is a blessing and a source of not only biblical information but also conversations that can make us think deeply about matters and revisit Scriptures on the matter to see if one must change their own viewpoint. So I always wish to be like the Bereans.
I have been reading what you have posted concerning the prosperity teachings that have become so dominant in many circles. You are correct that this teaching grew out of the pentecostal movement beginning in the turn of the last century (1900's) being an extension of the Wesleyan holiness movement of the 1800's. It branched out in the 1930's and 1940's with Branham and Hagan faith-healing emphasis. The movement went full force in the 1980's and onward from there. I remember when Casey Treat began his pastoring in the Seattle area in the 1980's. Christian's were easily seduced into this teaching as I recall, among people I knew in "charismatic" churches then.
The movement was birthed from the Faith Healing sector to become the Word of Faith movement and soon forked into the "We are Little gods" movement. Then it morphed into the New Apostolic Apostle movement with self-proclaimed prophets and apostles from so many mega-church/prosperity circles to draw in leaders from across the globe. This ever-branching deception has been going on for 100+ years now and the Oneness Pentecostal movement is another child of this movement.
Unfortunately, the U.S.A. has been the source of many deceptive organizations, including Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses, Christian Science, and the Word of Faith/Faith-Healing/and others mentioned. America's independent spirit, interest in novel religious beliefs, and ready acceptance of what is termed "revival", "outpouring" "blessing" that is equated with the work of the Holy Spirit.
You said, "First of all, I said nothing about Christians having to do rituals.
It's very simple: This is how a true believer loves the 10 commandments.
End quote.
Momsage I wasn't referring to Christians when I mentioned the rituals.
I said, "Our worship of God is directed by our love for Him, Not by Command and rituals".
I was contrasting the way the Samaritan woman knew as worship, which is the way Israel worshipped in the OT.
That is what the Lord was telling her. These were the ceremonial practices.
There were commands given concerning the Moral law, Ceremonial law, and Judicial law.
The ceremonial laws seem to focus the attention on God.
They include instructions on regaining right standing with God. ("sacrifices and other ceremonies regarding "uncleanness"), Remembrances of God's work in Israel. ("feasts and festivals"),
Specific regulations meant to distinguish Israelites from their pagan neighbors ("dietary and clothing restrictions"), and signs that point to the coming Messiah.
I never said anything about the 10 Commandments.
God bless.
Amen, scripture is clear if we open our eyes and ears, clear our minds, and open our hearts.
God bless,
RLW
It's very simple: This is how a true believer and the 10 commandments are related to each other.
1) True believers worship the one true God and will not have any other Gods to worship.
2) A true believer does NOT make images nor bow down to them.
3) True believers do not take the name of the Lord in vain.
4) True believers set aside one day for rest.
5) A true believer always gives respect and shows kindness to all people but especially to parents. 6) A true believer does not
murder
7) A true believer does not have sex with anyone in person or in mind except their spouse.
8) A true believer does not steal
9) A true believer does not lie (not matter how big or little a lie is or what color it is, a lie is a lie)
10) A true believer is not jealous. God Bless :)
You said: "Our worship of God is directed by our love for Him, Not by Command and rituals.
First of all, I said nothing about Christians having to do rituals.. You are separating the love of God from His commandments as if there is something wrong but God said in John 14:15: If ye love me, keep my commandments."
It's very simple: This is how a true believer loves the 10 commandments
1) True believers worship the one true God and will not have any other Gods to worship.
2) A true believer does NOT make images nor bow down to them.
3) True believers do not take the name of the Lord in vain.
4) True believers set aside one day for rest.
5) A true believer always gives respect and shows kindness to all people but especially to parents. 6) A true believer does not murder
7) A true believer does not have sex with anyone in person or in mind except their spouse.
8) A true believer does not steal
9) A true believer does not lie (not matter how big or little a lie is or what color it is, a lie is a lie)
10) A true believer is not jealous. God Bless :)
A true believer's connection to the 10 commandments is simply that they obey them.
1) True believers worship the one true God and will not have any other Gods to worship.
2) A true believer does NOT make images nor bow down to them.
3) True believers do not take the name of the Lord in vain.
4) True believers set aside one day for rest.
5) A true believer always gives respect and shows kindness to all people but especially to parents.
6) A true believer does not murder
7) A true believer does not have sex with anyone in person or in mind except their spouse.
8) A true believer does not steal
9) A true believer does not lie (not matter how big or little or what color it is, a lie is a lie)
10) A true believer is not jealous. God Bless :)
I had an elder brother in the faith; who I respect very much challenge me today in regard to always trying to understand certain concepts; today the issue specifically was in regard to the passages that state "I never knew you" after all the self proclaimed actions of the individuals only showed they did things in their own power or God worked despite that. I was told not to focus on WHY so much and concentrate on my own walk; devotions; evangelism; etc. It was brought to my attention that he knew someone who was downcast after hoarding an entire room of perhaps hundreds of books (I assume not Bibles per se) to get certain answers.
I thought but after a couple attempts to explain I gave up (and the service was about to start) that I was genuinely seeking answers to scripture; and did note that he had a bad experience with the Charismatic and Pentacostal crowd in the past (who I was busy explaining had a differing view on the Trinity). I was bringing up a point which I tried to explore here; as to why those who are into the Oneness Gospel often have a couple other traits. I bring this up because perhaps he was warning me of hanging out with that crowd and not trying to figure out what goes on there. It seems from what I could gather that he was saying that emotionalism wasn't something to be counted upon in general.
In regard to this site and my postings; I am concerned of my own motives as well as the time spent discussing various doctrinal issues primarily as being something I am doing for my own entertainment or just to get attention. I certainly enjoy the company here albeit there is usually only a few who respond at least regularly. I do have a desire to warn against the subtle devices of the enemy; as well as how news especially internationally is skewed and attempt to present it from a Biblical viewpoint not just what necessarily is accepted as "Christian".
Should my focus change on what I discuss here? Insight?
Agape
When we think of worship we often don't touch the surface of what it really means.
God bless.
A datacenter had a power failure which caused secondary problems on the server and the safety net caching service also did not work as intended.
May God bless you!
"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."
Heaven
" For ever, O Lord, thy word is settled in heaven."(Ps.119:89)
"Forever"refers to Jesus Christ the same, yesterday, today and forever."(He.13:8) Thy word is eternal that determines the coveneant between the Father and the Son as everlasting. Moses was a servant whereas Jesus Christ as the Son is the fulfillment of Law. Thus blessings stipulated in the covenant is for all believers where faith determines his pedigree. "And of Zion it shall be said, This and that man was born in her: and the highest himself shall establish her./The Lord shall count, when he writeth up the people, that this man was born there." In his Son every believer has hs foundation in heaven. That is faith. His works is his life. "Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity."(2 Ti.2:19; John 1:4). In Jesus he abides. " In him was life; and the life was the light of men." So his life of witnessing is here and now while he is founded on Zion in heaven. Nothing less.
Heaven also signifies his life of testimony. Trinity as memorial must be as a sign. "And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes."(De.6:6) Jesus of Nazareth showed holiness of God with his life. His testimony as evident in the multiplying loaves was as testimony to the Word forever settled in heaven.
Having covered the Salvation Plan in broad brushstrokes I shall now attend to the everlasting covenant verse by verse.
"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."
In the beginning refers to Jesus Christ in his Alpha Aspect. In the beginning was the Word. "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God./The same was in the beginning with God./All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made./ In him was life; and the life was the light of men." God as a Being has his order. Two worlds which are framed by the Word. In He.11:3 we have these worlds defined as unseen as well as seen. Faith is the quality of Holiness of invisible Being seen. "Be ye holy for I am holy" sets Jesus Christ in focus. "But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption."(1 Co.1:3o) Jesus is real since the wisdom of the Word renders holiness of God as doable. Wisdom principle that the Son represents and Power of God, the Father gives us the order. The two worlds forever exist upon this order.
When the Word became flesh, death of Jesus revealed the Power of the Father."Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it."(Ac.2:24)
Word as the eternal word forever settled in heaven validates the Omega aspect of Jesus Christ (Ps.110:89) Two worlds framed by the word of God set an order where Power of God and Wisdom of the Son establish the definition of holiness which man may enter only by faith and nothing else.Thus God the Father represents the spirit aspect of Trinity; God the Son the body and the brightness of His glory the soul or the heart of God.
Last in this series let us look what it is to be 'That God may be all in all.' So the superscription refers to the day of regeneration. "Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power."(v.24). St Paul refers to the saying of Jesus and rounding off the Spirit of truth in his ministry. "If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him."( John 14:2-23)
Jesus refers to it as 'In that day'. Remember the body aspect of Trinity as a memorial? It covers the heaven the earth and the lower parts. Here we read how all enemies to Christ have been finally disposed off. "And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works./And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death./And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."(Re.20:13-15) The sea giving up the dead is fulfillment of this verse, "The Lord sitteth upon the flood; yea, the Lord sitteth King for ever."(Ps.29:10)The term forever refers to the Son. "that in all things he might have the preeminence. For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell.in" This is what God 'be all in all' signifies.
Before that to happen we have this verse in the Book of Isaiah to consider. "And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more."(Is.2:4)
"And the nations of the which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it."(Re.21:24)
If I may add a little information here, the word worship in the New Testament, also found here in John 4:24 has absolutely nothing to do with external activities, including singing. The word literally means to bow down and kiss the ring of somebody.
In other words, if you are coming into the presence of the king, you bow down, you get on your knee, and you kiss his ring. And then he will lift the scepter and you'll be able to talk. But you cannot talk until you express your submission and reverence.
You see, true worship is submission. It is obedience. It doesn't mean we can't sing, but that in the Bible is called singing. True worshipers worship, and remember what it means, to bow down, to submit. True worshipers worship God in spirit and in truth. Submitting to His truth and reverencing His truth is the highest form of worship.
Jesus quoted from Isaiah in one place and said, "Well did Isaiah say of you that you honor me with your lips but your heart is far from me." He says I get tired of you going and performing your religious vows and all your singing and whatever when your heart is not even lined up with what you're doing.
God looks on the heart, and man looks on the outward appearance. It is unacceptable to Him. God is Spirit. Everybody that gives genuine worship to God worships Him in Spirit. We are to surrender to His Spirit and surrender to His truth. That is the highest form of worship!
Blessings!
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off (crucified), but not for Himself: and the people of the prince that shall come (the esoteric and kabbalistic false messiah- John 5:43-47 combined with Revelation 13:11) shall DESTROY the CITY (Jerusalem) and the SANCTUARY-> Revelation 13:2->the dragon, the esoteric false messiah of Judaism- Revelation 13:11 gave(will give) him (will give to the Beast of sea-ruler of Catholicism) his Power, and his Throne, and great Authority.; and the END thereof shall be with a flood( Luke 21:24; Revelation 11:2; Revelation 12:15?), and unto the END of the WAR ( Revelation 16:13-15) desolations are determined.
27 And he (the profane prince of Israel that shall come- Ezekiel 21:25, John 5:43-47; 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4; Revelation 13:11) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week(covenant with the whole religious structures of the RCC-Judaism and Catholicism- Revelation 13:2): and in the midst of the week( Revelation 13:5) he- the profane wicked prince of Israel, the false messiah- shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease ( 2Thessalonians 2:6-9), and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation ( Revelation 16:13-15), and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
GOD bless and get ready
In John 4:20 the Samaritan woman at the well said "Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.
She is referring to centrality of the temple in worship where the ceremonies were performed.
Jesus is saying the day has come where worshiping the Lord in spirit and truth is that worship of God is not to be confined to a single geographical location or necessarily regulated by the of Old Testament law.
Worship became a matter of the heart, not external actions, and directed by truth rather than ceremony.
Our worship of God is directed by our love for Him, Not by Command and rituals.
Ti worship in spirit this way was prophesied in Ezekiel 36:27.
"And I will put my spirit within you, AND CAUSE YOU TO WALK IN MY STATUTES, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
This is the work of the Holyspirit.
God bless.
As stated in some comments some months ago; we should still be able to trust God in regard to His Word; and that indeed He can and will prosper people financially. In this world we should adhere to 1 Timothy 6:17
Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;
Some are born into riches; others earn it through hard work and God's Providence of resulting financial success. Money is uncertain and we can't put our trust in things that "moth and rust" corrupt ( Matt. 6:19).
Certainly it isn't Pastors who should be cornering the market or seeking "filthy lucre" ( Titus 1:11 AND 1 Peter 5:2). The best they can hope for is making it into heaven as through the fire; but there is probably a much better chance they aren't saved at all. Only God knows but why make that lifestyle your legacy?
What we see today is more of these so called "Apostles" dying; while others making half hearted "repentance" statements then continuing on with the sin of covetousness; much like the parable of a dog returning to its own vomit ( Proverbs 26:11). We certainly bring nothing into this world and we aren't taking anything out ( 1 Timothy 6:7). What we can do is gain heavenly treasure by harvesting souls ( Matt. 6:19).
He who covers or conceals his sin is not doing themselves any favors. ( Proverbs 28:13). It actually says the man will not prosper. There are enough warnings in scripture including to the Pharisees as to the spiritual ramifications of continuing in such behaviors and many others in the Old Testament as well.
Ultimately; the desire for fame and popularity is tied into those with this narcissistic mindset and lifestyle. All will be lost after this life; which is as a vapor has passed. Let us live lives in strict obedience and holiness not due to compulsion but love and gratitude for what Christ did for us.
Starting with the age of TV evangelists; and now advancing further with internet sermons and so called "crusades"; we often have no real basis for determining what is really happening on the ground in regard to how the money is spent; except of course for promotionals that a church produces to promote its own ministry when it comes to prosperity preachers in particular. Discipleship is often lacking. There are some Pentecostals that no doubt have very strict regulations; but as with many of the fundamental megachurches; a double standard often exists for leadership. Let's face it; it is rare anywhere to get anyone in leadership roles to admit they struggle with sin or any wrongdoing; unless of course they are caught in the act of misappropriating funds; or some other immoral act. Damage control; no doubt is steeped in the training of staff (again a tactic of dictators) to keep loyal supporters. Anything but greed is given as an excuse for out of control spending. This; of course leads to what I would call "self fulfilling prophecies" where anything untoward or scandalous is turned to the Pastor or "Apostle" or Prophet being a victim of circumstances; things we hear often from politicians. When justification is given for another spending spree of course it is some dream or vision of great "revival" which of course no one else is qualified to initiate that demands money.
I want to stop at this point and acknowledge that the irony here is that if such megapastors TRULY wanted people to prosper they would feel threatened; they would rather make some inane proclamation of return 100 fold than say invest in precious metals; save; invest with a long term goal rather than short term benefits. They of course don't know how to wait on God; and make the fatal error often that only God can give financial success rather than the evil one.
I can see murdurers truly repenting rather than some of these crooks.
HEALTH
Having discussed briefly the desires of the flesh for money that convince people (supposedly) that they too can have mountains of cash or at least a foothill or two if they sow generously to the megachurch we turn our attention to the other major appeal; that is of healings. As long as botox and plastic surgery keep the preacher (or "Apostle" or "prophet") from looking as crooked as their heart is they can hold some leverage; to those foolish enough to believe them to the concept that somehow they have locked into some sort of "healing ministry" that they can attach to their official title. It reminds me of the Jethro Tull song "Wind up" where he says "he's not the kind you have to wind up on Sundays" as one of his lines describing God. The same could be said for his song "My God" where the hypocricy of those who use a "plastic crucifix" is mocked. Sometimes we can find more wisdom with secular music than so called "Christian."
At any "road" as they say in England; if they can't sell you the concept of healing they will also often promote products that are; of course overpriced that are organic or something to that effect to keep your appearance younger. It appears almost always the evidence of so called healings have no factual backup; such as names; places or verifiable witnesses. Emotional healings of course aren't as easily verified and spiritual change is more than hype and drama. I am not a "cessationist" in principle; but would venture to say that any true miracle isn't something which should be made a spectacle; just as any true conversion has lasting power as based on John 15:5 about remaining in Him. If there is a true miracle of God it certainly isn't to promote a particular ministry but to give glory to God. It also; no doubt will bring the same sort of persecution that happened during the time of Christ. The same could be said about tongues; another thing these churches tend to emphasize.
Much as with the conspiracy theorists; prosperity teachers like to prey on people who want to obtain wealth the easy way; because they largely grew up with a lack of a work ethic of previous generations. This is why an atheist with worldly wisdom can see the hypocrisy right away when the "religious" folk have to ponder things further. As to the teachers themselves; we can see patterns in their youth and upbringing that are common to dictators; often spoiled as children and getting much attention; or struggling to some extent but finding a way to dominate and control others through various means and methods (that would perhaps be more true with women who get into this vocation; again I'll leave names out; do your own research).
Of course; all we need to do is look at Paul in scripture who sarcastically pointed out that they were "kings" in the Corinthian church. ( 1 Cor. 4:8). He spends much time describing his sufferings for their sake as a necessity; not that he wishes to boast about anything of himself. They were; basically spoiled brats; but thankfully got straightened up right quick. Paul of course was the antithesis of a prosperity preacher; living in want and need and providing for himself and other churches at his own expense.
Of course another appeal in our country is the whole concept of pride about our independence; and the ability to "live out your dreams" in regard to having a big building as an indication of a thriving ministry. That; at least was the fashion up until say the beginning of the 21st century. Today; we see churches branching out to the aforementioned African Megachurches in particular where excesses of the rich are more of a novelty for those who have never seen it before; and sadly many view this type of "Christianity" as typifying the American church. Those with sense run like the plague. Sadly also there is the promise of health along with wealth.
Sounds like it is going a little slow, tell your construction guy to drink black cherry juice, it will help with gout, he can ask his doctor if he wants to confirm it if his doctor will. Just make it fun, a summer of cookouts and picnics. GiGi, I think it is clear we both love Jesus, and our faith is in Him and by Him is our salvation. We have discussed this before, I know your understanding and how you feel about mine unless that has changed, I hope your repairs go well and you can put things back in order.
God bless,
RLW
How do we worship God in spirit and truth? God Bless :)
Our upstairs is nearly finished. Our construction guy had another bout of knee trouble due to newly diagnosed gout, so he was out 3 days last week. If he had worked, he would have finished the bath upstairs and the trim-work on the other bedroom. But I am glad he took time off and has this weekend to recover. He went to the doctor this time, so hopefully they prescribed the usual medication for gout-colchicine.
Anyway, the downstairs will begin demoing in a week and a half. So we are hoping he can finish the upstairs and possible begin and complete the downstair bathroom, remove the popcorn ceiling and sand it before he begins the demo of the kitchen, which is a total gut job.
I predict that things may be completed by end of Sept. Going to be cooking and eating outside most of the summer and using paper plates and such. But we will do fine. We have plenty of campwear to use.
I was thinking last night about how much Jesus humbled Himself by coming from the Father to enter into humanity. Sometimes we tend to think of how similar He is to us, like a "good buddy" as I have heard some say. But He really is unlike us in His perfection and holiness, far different. Something for me to study and give much thought to.
Have a good Memorial Day weekend. Remembering all of those who fought for our country and our freedom and being grateful to the fruits of their sacrifice. And remembering loved ones who have died.
Makes me thing of the great cloud of witnesses spoken of in Hebrews 11.
Proverbs 3:9-10 may be a favorite verse of prosperity preachers. It states:
Honour the LORD with thy substance, and with the firstfruits of all thine increase: 10So shall thy barns be filled with plenty, and thy presses shall burst out with new wine.
It is too bad they don't go on to the next verse which says: My son, do not reject the discipline of the LORD, and do not loathe His rebuke; for the LORD disciplines the one He loves, as does a father the son in whom he delights. (verses 11 and 12-so next TWO verses).
This concept of correction also makes Job 21:13 a frightening perspective because it describes them thriving until the moment of death; then the wrath of God afterwards (see rest of chapter and other parts of the book of Job as well).
Malachi 3:10 also discusses putting tithes in the storehouse and God's blessings; as well as pointing out their stinginess earlier in the book where they offer lame and sick animals ( Malachi 1:8). Naturally; if the first appeal doesn't work guilt trips like this are also utilized; any trick in the book to get the coffers filled.
The blessings of God are conditional on obedience to the Lord to His statutes and commandments; and of course that deals with matters of the heart as this verse in Malachi and similar references in Isaiah 1; for example. One can surmise that when one sin (covetousness which breaks the 10th Commandment) there is another; and that often is adulteries and adulterous remarriages that this type of celebrity pastor commonly is involved in. Since the church rarely stands up as they should to these matters with other members they sometimes can seemingly get by; but sometimes this does cost them a significant number of members.
In my next post I am going to explore factors in society that make such con artists thrive that exist today; as well as that form the personality types of individuals that tend to start on these ventures.