Bible Discussion Replies PAGE 88

Hi , I asked a question about Ezekiel Ch 37 V 16 about 12 hours ago , can't find it on the site . Don't think it was controversial :) . Does anyone have an opinion on this verse please ?

I believe you've hit the 'nail on the head' brother S. Spencer. If more Fellowships gave much more teaching space to the Work of the Holy Spirit in the believer's life, we would learn to be much more sensitive to Him, watching for and responding to His leading, and of course, weighing every act or thought under His all-penetrating Light of Truth & Grace.

Sometimes we can be over-sensitive to our every action, as I feel I tend to, but even in this, we can trust the Spirit of God to direct us & comfort us in every step we take. If we truly looked only to Him for everything we need for life & godliness, we would spend less time debating on matters about the currency of the given written Law or even the believer's imperative to struggle in maintaining holiness & salvation only given at the end. Even in these matters, the Holy Spirit in us will take care of it, only if we allow Him, listening earnestly to Him. He never fails - we often do, thereby missing out on God's very best for us. Blessings.

Adam,

You are very welcome! I agree. They were defrauding each other, and Paul admonished them for it. Church today is run so much different than it was in Paul's day. Today, it seems as though church fellowships do not want "stir the pot" and are more concerned about losing members than following instruction set forth in scripture.

The believers in Corinth were taking each other to court before a non-believing judge to judge matters that should have been handled between themselves. Paul corrected them for that.

Should we "turn the other cheek" in all situations? I think that's something we would have to settle in our own hearts, consulting with the Lord of course!

Personally, I would not sue another believer. I know it's easier said than done, but I don't believe that is something I would do. But I agree with you completely that there is a lack of church involvement in such matters.

I wonder also about the precepts of sin against a brother that is given to us in Matthew 18:15-20. How many church fellowships today follow that model?

As for the kissing on the cheek as Paul told them to do, that was their normal way of greeting each other at that time. In fact, they still greet each other that way in the Middle East. If you ever watch news clips of dignitaries greeting each other in the Middle East, they still kiss on each cheek. I don't think there would be anything wrong with us doing the same. We might get some funny looks (or slapped), but that's the way they greet each other in the Middle East and did so in Paul's day. It would be equivalent to our handshake or hug when we greet someone.

God Bless!!!

That was a great read Brother Chris!

I believe there's a lack of study in the work of the Holyspirit.

Thanks for sharing!

God bless

Amen Brother Chris.

We must not shun the truth no matter who delivers it

We should try to use that common ground to minister to them.

God bless.

Thank you for your analysis, Jesse, and Bible references.

It sounds like the context of Paul's writing was people defrauding each other, which seems fairly serious to me.

This only prompted from reading and noticing the suggestion to let the church settle a dispute and why I've never heard of churches announcing that they offer this.

But the lack of church involvement seems to leave most people wronged with the only option to settle disputes with possible non-Christians if they seek legal justice. (or are we to turn the other cheek in all situations?)

In a country like the USA most identify as Christian, but no one really knows how much they actually practice that- ranging from not at all your whole life to being a lead church pastor. It seems in a general courtroom setting of strangers I don't see it automatically being a negative to Christianity, because I don't think its even legal to ask someone's religion in court due to anti-discrimination laws, and the judge and people there (if in the USA) are more likely to be Christian than non-Christian, and its not talked about anyway. Wondering if the difference of context in Paul's time vs today in some places makes a difference in how we should follow what is written.

People also don't kiss each other on the cheek like Paul says to do, so is that sin or cultural difference we need to apply to all of the Word?

(part 2):

And so he says isn't there any wise men among you that can decide what's right and what's wrong, and make those kinds of decisions?



So I think that it is interesting that Paul says to set somebody up, and it doesn't have to be somebody that's educated. He says to take the person that is least esteemed in the church because the right and the wrong is pretty simple!



So he says you're at fault. You're a failure there in your dealings. First of all you are defrauding one another, and if your brother does defraud you, you think you got to take him to court because nobody's going to do anything about it.



Just let it go, because we are talking about a Christian with another Christian coming in front of non-believers and letting non-believers judge between God's people. They don't even have the Spirit of God!

Hope this helps?

God bless!!!

Hello, Adam,

I can share a little on this. Chapter 6 deals with the morality of the gospel. The first four verses are probably the ones in question.

Verses 1-3 deal with the prosecution of believers. Paul also gives an admonition.

1 Corinthians 6:4 is the instruction. He says, If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.



This Greek word Exoutheneo has to do with the same word that we see in Romans 14:1 about let the older brother not despise the younger, or make light of.



This is a person that people don't take too seriously. And I think it's interesting that Paul is saying this on purpose because it's not a matter of picking out people in your midst who have all the education and experience, and to judge these matters because obviously they can't do it impartially. Take the person that God can use!



So he says to take the person that's least esteemed in the church. Of course that might not glorify you if someone comes up to you and says "that's you!"

We see the condition in Verse 7. Now therefore there is utterly a fault, and this is literally the word failure, among you, because you go to law one with another. Why do you not rather take the wrong? Why do you not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded?

And then in Verse 8, it says no, but you do the wrong, and you defraud, and that to your brothers.



He's talking about Christians doing this to each other, not from the outside, but to each other. Christians are doing wrong in justice. They are defrauding. They're cheating their brother.



And so the brother who is wronged, he files a legal action against his brother. With all the educated and all the well to do people in the congregation, everybody has their sides you see. You can't find too many people that are impartial.

I need a part 2.

Of the churches I've attended they never had a court or an official structure to settle disputes within the church body, but after reading 1 Cor 6 I wonder if that's what it means. Paul emphasizes how we should be separate from the world's way of doing things, that believers will even judge angels so surely we can handle our own petty disputes.

Disputes I've had in the past haven't been with members of my specific church, however, so I wonder if it implies some kind of inter-church cooperative dispute resolution service or if it just means within one church location. Does anyone have any thoughts on this topic?

Amen, great reminder, GiGi.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts GiGi as you progress on the Attributes of God using the alphabet - very interesting & edifying as also the great submissions from Richard. As I read yours, and you quoted Deuteronomy 4:7, my thoughts went to the very Name of God in respect to this.

The Israelites were indeed reminded that the LORD God was always near to them - with them; and yet they should have known (or, maybe it wasn't revealed to them at that stage), that this God is also known by His compound Name, YHWH-Shammah: "The LORD Who is Present". And this we see in Ezekiel 48:35, the very last statement in the very last verse of Ezekiel's prophecy (which is generally understood to refer to Israel's existence in the Millennial Kingdom; Ezekiel chapters 40 to 48).

In that verse, the Hebrew reads, "wasem ha-ir mi-yowm Yahweh sammah" ('and the name of the city from (that) day (shall be) YAHWEH (is) THERE'). Israel of old knew that God was with them by all His marvelous Works yet they still resorted to the flesh & idolatry. But the day will come when they will truly know Him as Yahweh Shammah, the LORD Who is present, with them, very near to them, for Christ Jesus their Messiah will be the Lord Whom they will know & Who will rule over them (also speaks of Christ's indivisible Deity). And what we, as those who have now received Christ's Spirit in our hearts, know Him in a personal way & a powerful Presence in our lives, still remain to them as a distant hope & a vain search, all the while clouded in disbelief, darkness, & rejection of their Messiah's first coming. Thank you for reminding us that the LORD has never left us - He has constantly been involved in all our affairs, even though at times in our personal & global existence, He might appear absent. But unto 'us who believe, He is precious' & we ought to live in such a manner befitting His Name, 'the LORD Who is Present with(in) us'.

Hi Cheryl1655. The passage you read in Revelation 21:1-3 about the new heaven (sky) & new Earth and then the New Jerusalem coming down from Heaven, are events (including those in Revelation 22) that will take place right at the very end of earthly time as we know it. This account shows us the end of Satan & his influence on mankind, the end of sin & corruption, & the arrival of a complete renewal of God's original creation, with God in the midst. These are glorious visions which the Apostle John received from Jesus for those end times, and sadly the vision of all those who have rejected Jesus & loved to live in sin, hating the God of Heaven, these will go into punishment of everlasting fire ( Revelation 21:8).

"The meeting in the sky" is what I believe you're referring to as the Rapture, or 'the snatching away' (Latin, 'rapio'; Greek, 'harpazo'), and this is referred to in 1 Corinthians 15:51,52 and 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17, which the Apostle Paul's was teaching to those Churches. Now this event (the Rapture) is a subject that has a whole range of views & beliefs amongst Christians, as we piece together what information we're given in the Bible, figuring the how, when, where, this occurs (or, likely to occur). However, to answer your question, my understanding of the Scriptures is that the Rapture ('the lifting up of the living & dead in Christ & meeting Jesus in the sky') is the next great event in God's 'calendar', where His saved, holy ones are removed from the Earth before His Wrath is poured upon the Earth of unbelievers (otherwise called, the Great Tribulation of God's Wrath (see Matthew chapter 24)). See also 1 Thessalonians 1:10 & 1 Thessalonians 5:8-10.

However one views this 'snatching away' & the Day of God's Wrath upon the Earth, the message to those IN CHRIST is clear: BE READY, Live lives pleasing to the Lord, that we may "not be ashamed before Him at His Coming" ( 1 John 2:28,29). GBU.

This chapter speaks warning to the Israelites before they enter the land.

They are not to be afraid of the strong nations they will encounter when they go forth to take the lands. God promised to destroy the peoples. So it was not up to the might of the Israelites for the victory to occur, but upon the almighty power and will of God.

The part the Israelites will play in the conquest is to destroy ALL the people, ALL their idols and places of worship. The Israelites responsibility was obedience. God named the 7 nations they were yet to conquer.

He commanded them to not intermarry with members of the nations of this land. They are to be a people separate from the idolaters. They were not to intermix with them in marriage, business, and in everyday life. God knows the power of sin and temptation. He was warning them for their good, not just to put restrictions on their lives. It is wise to follow God in this way, to not be involved with idolaters, those who hate God, those who, in ignorance or rebellion fail to worship and serve Him. These idolaters do not have much to offer us in way of relationships. Their company will usually lead us into sin rather than bring reformation to them. But we still are to be witnesses in and out of season.

God promised to make the Israelites fruitful in every way. Being fruitful is a blessing, being barren is not. We should have this same attitude in our lives. We should greatly desire to be spiritually fruitful, fruitful in our work habits, fruitful in our marriage, fruitful in our relations with other believers as we pray and study the Word together.

I am thankful that I married a believer. This was God's doing. It has led us to have a harmonious marriage. We are coming up on our 44th wedding anniversary in a few weeks. God has blessed us so much. May we show gratitude to each other even more so in the years ahead!

God is:

NEAR

He is everywhere present, but the Word says He is specifically near to those who call upon Him.

God came near humanity specifically in the Incarnation of the Son in Jesus

The Holy Spirit is as near as possible within us.

Jesus said He would never leave us nor forsake us.

God is intimate with us. We do not deserve His Presence near to us because of our sinful nature, but He chose to bring us forgiveness in Christ so that He can.

How amazing that the holy God who cannot have sin abide in his Presence has drawn near to us in and through Christ!

Although God is transcendent and in many ways beyond us, He is also near.

He was near His people in the wilderness( Deut. 4:7)

Jesus brought God's kingdom near to us ( Mk. 1:15)

The Perfection of Christ

Christ being a member of the Godhead never sinned. We see that He was tempted in all ways as we are as Hebrews 4:15 states.

In His own strength Christ certainly always had the right to do anything as well as the capability; but as we know God cannot lie ( Heb. 6:18 and other related scriptures). Thus; Satan truly was the only being that had the authority to give the right of rulership over the earth as a temptation; and Christ was the only recipient other than Antichrist who will receive this offer. The man of sin will accept it; and the world will accept THE LIE ( 2 Thess. 2:11-12). It was for our sake that Christ humbled Himself; even to death on a cross emptying Himself of all self promotion of His own glory for the sake of the Father's exaltation later. This encompasses a number of scriptures (see Philippians 2:7; Isaiah 53).

Thus; we see that the relationship among the Godhead brings humility followed by exaltation. We also should follow that guideline; knowing that no servant is greater than His master; we are also to suffer while in this brief earthly existence. ( John 13:16). How much of our own troubles are caused by our own sins varies; it is something we should overcome if we are truly to embrace His sufferings.

When we consider sinless perfection on a surface level we think of avoiding commission of acctions against God as well as avoiding omission of things we ought to do which is often neglected at the expense of the first issue. We can think of someone who never makes mistakes; never says a word that is unfitting; and other like characteristics. When examining in depth this subject we see how eternal spiritual laws and principles were always first and foremost; undergirding Christ's miracles. Salvation was shown to be more crucial than just healing (see Matthew 9:6); as the paralytic received healing along with forgiveness. Salvation is complete at the Resurrection of the just; inheriting new bodies

Verse 2 & 3 new heaven & earth come dowsn from heaven, then what is the meeting in the sky ?

I wanted to tell you, also, that in a way it's sorrowful if your family is still caught up in the Catholic church but Jesus has made you a light in the darkness and He will use His beautiful light to shine on them with His beautiful truth. When I first heard the gospel I was thrilled. I had no idea that Jesus' death and resurrection actually meant I could be forgiven for all my sins at once as long as I asked Jesus to forgive me and not some grumpy old man every Saturday. I will keep your family in prayer also God Bless :)

Thank you Chris,

you expressed our shared thoughts on this very eloquently.

Hi Momsage,

No problem, I understand that people who have been in a spiritual situation where they have been grossly misled or abused or made to feel guilty if one does not follow their teachings strictly and exclusively can have a very adverse reaction to that situation and can be reactive to things that can trigger strong emotions. It seems that this discussion has done so with you. I am sorry for that. I did not begin this discussion, just responding to you and Hadassah, as many do on this site.

As to the sect you were once associated with that taught against getting medical treatment, viewing it as a lack of faith or some other attitude they found thought God would not approve, I am glad you left that situation. Such teachings and pressures to conform are oftentimes a mark of cultish and teaching. So, My prayer is that you are now in a good church situation that feeds you well from Scripture and promotes a deeper walk with God by His Spirit in you. We can discuss what ever you wish. I usually do not begin threads or discussions but often join in. I am happy to know you and look forward to many discussions. I don't think we need to redress the current one on the errors of Catholicism. I do think we agree that there are some very disturbingly false teachings and practices promoted by this sect. And that is a good place to end on this topic.

Page 2.

I do at times share with a few RC friends, & they also read the Bible themselves (a wonderful permission now granted to them), so they are asking questions, some even searching for the Truth (as in your cases). And some even now are saved within that Church, yet unable to leave probably because of the indoctrination of damnation in their early years, to any who considered leaving her. But I remain hopeful that the Spirit will continue to work in (& amongst) them, just as He has done in both of you.

An example: In the Qur'an there are a lot of verses that bring great honor to God, even mirroring the belief some hold to Jesus' position within the Godhead ( John 1:1); and this is found in Surah 3:45 (Qur'an), "When the angels said, 'Mary, God gives thee good tidings of a Word from Him, whose name is Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary; highly honoured shall he be in this world and the next". Here, the claim is made that Jesus is the Word of God, came from God as His Messiah, yet most Muslims reject this meaning as it's incompatible to God being One, without any association. Would I then use the Qur'an as a reliable source to complement the Bible in my readings (Never), or should I be aware that there are truths in there also, yet the 'whole' is so corrupted offering no hope & salvation to the Muslim?

So, even those truths can be the foundation to access the hearts & minds of others (Muslims, RCs, others), where in most cases, a total rejection to the biblical Truth will shut us off completely from them. Here of course, I'm thinking of ministry to such folk lost in darkness & sin, & also as a teaching between Truth & error, learning of what others believe & what has caused them to "err from the truth". So yes, we can at least appreciate when the RC does believe according to the Word: some Light is still evident there amongst the lies & so we have a good basis to build up on our common beliefs, striving to lead them to the perfect & final Work of Jesus for them.

Page 1.

Hello Momsage. If I may intrude a little here in spite of your converstion now going a different way, & in reference to GiGi's position on this matter of RC doctrine & teaching, I understand GiGi's comments a little differently to how you & Hadassah do. As you know, she is not condoning all the beliefs & practises of that Church, rather as I understand it, & from her other posts, that she is stating those RC beliefs that are actually according to the Bible & are to be noted.

However, your position is that 'if there are so many erroneous teachings emanating from a group such as the RC Church, then the whole is to be rejected & given no regard in any way'. But what I see here is that GiGi is airing those teachings that are clearly un-biblical & dishonoring to God, but even within such a misguided Church, there can still be teaching that are clearly biblically-based. For example, I know that some say that 'those who believe in the Trinity are believing a Catholic doctrine initiated by RC Church; and since they themselves don't believe it & the RCs do, therefore we follow a Catholic teaching'. Which is totally erroneous & misrepresenting both the Bible & those who subscribe to it.

Yet, there are teachings that RCs hold to that are biblical, e.g. the Trinity, of Judgement & Hell, of Christ's Virgin Birth, Death, Resurrection & Second Coming, the sanctity of marriage, Sunday (the Lord's Day), & others. And yet there are other teachings, many more that are against sound biblical doctrine. I doubt that neither GiGi, nor I & most others, would voluntarily attend & worship at an RC Church, given their beliefs & practises, but can we truly say that ALL that they believe in, is wrong? Could we not find some ground of common belief that we can use to measure how far folk have deviated from Truth; or, to assist those so grossly misled, to come to the Truth? To Page 2.

I'm sorry I overreacted. Yes, you have been respectful toward me and I appreciate it. I would still like to have discussions with you. Do you have something in particular we could discuss?

I use to belong to a church where one of their main teachings was devine healing but they became so stirck in the teaching that going to a doctor or taking medicine was looked down on. Basically you were being unfaithful to God and His word if you did. What do you think or if you'd rather discuss something else that's OK. God Bless :)

Dear Momsage,

It is fine if we end this thread of conversation between us. I was not saying that you were bring prideful about your knowledge. I was said that "we", meaning any believer, should be careful about it. Sorry if you thought I was pointing you out specifically. I was not.

Also, in all of this conversation I have maintained that we should not be hateful in our speech about others. I stand by that and have been respectful to you. But if you think I have not been so to you, please let me know how you think I have been disrespectful because I do truly want to know.

I hope you have a blessed day and evening.

Hello Oseas.

What I said is that we are to hate any false doctrine no matter the sect. But that does not mean that we are to speak hatefully to those who are in these sects or to oppose ALL that is taught by such sects as long as the teaching is Scripturally sound. We can choose to not be members of such sects or to associate with those in these sects, nor should we recommend people to join them, but we are not to be hateful to them. We are to be winsome in our language to those in sects that teach things that are not in accord with Scripture, endeavoring to find common sound beliefs to speak with them about in hopes of drawing them to the Scriptures to seek more truth.

As for the rest of your post to me, I guess that I really do not have much more to address of it. I hope you have a good day, Oseas.

GIGI

You said to Momsage that there are many false teachings in Protestant churches today, so, we should hate these as much as the ones taught in Catholicism, and after you made an extense description of sects which have spread false and devilish doctrines.

Reading the content of your post, I was compelled to remember you and all that from now on GOD Almight will LITERALLY fulfill

His Word given to Isaiah about His WRATH against this current generation of satanic religions, and their respective devilish doctrines and teachings. As my GOD said- Isaiah 33:10-14-, Now will He rise, now will He be exalted; now will He lift up Himself.

My GOD is a devouring fire, understand? So the people shall be as the burnings of lime: as thorns cut up shall they be burned in the fire.

Now if any man build upon this foundation gold,silver,precious stones,wood,hay,stubble;Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it,because it shall be revealed by fire;and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is-1Cor.3:12-13.

2 Peter 3:7

&11-12&17-The heavens(the 1st and 2nd heavenly places in Christ- Ephesians 1:3-or 1st and 2nd Covenant-Old and New Testaments)and the earth(the current Israel infested of idolatries and sorceries,whose holy city is spiritually called Sodom and Egypt),which are now,by the same Word are kept in store,RESERVED UNTO FIRE against this Day of Judgment and perdition of ungodly men.(that is the seventh and last Day or seventh and last millennium)

11Seeing then that all these things shall be DISSOLVED,what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

12Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the Day of GOD,wherein the heavens being on fire(GOD is a devouring fire) shall be DISSOLVED,and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

17Ye therefore,beloved,seeing ye know these things before,beware lest ye also,being led away with the error of the wicked,fall from your own your own stedfastness.

"Cor. 13:12 We should be careful and resist spiritual pride concerning our knowledge of right doctrine." I think it is time for us to stop communicating. I have not accused you of spiritual pride, lack of compassion for sinners, etc. I have been respectful of you and your comments, I have just disagreed with them. I don't agree that "serving God or serving manna" doesn't apply to what I'm saying about the Catholic Church. The Vatican is one of the wealthiest entities in the world. It is worth billions, and yet local parishes have had to close their schools because they don't have the funds to keep them open, elderly nun's pensions have been cut or stopped altogether because the parish didn't have the money anymore to pay it to them. The reason the Vatican won't help them is because they basically say they are on their own and the Vatican is not responsible for them. The Catholics choose idolatry over God in their worship of false God's, especially Mary. I would guess that 90% of Catholics worship Mary far above worshipping Jesus. The rosary has a bead where they pray the "Hail, Holy Queen" prayer which greatly and completely calls on Mary as if she is God. It's to long to print here but it is on the Marians of the Immaculate Conception website on " how to say the rosary." Many more Hail Marys are said on the rosary then any prayer to God. So Catholics may believe in God but they certainly don't worship Him as the one and only God. So they love manna and dishonor God. I admit, I haven't studied the Catholic Church like you have, but I did live it for 18 yrs. and the hypocrisy drove me away. What good does the little bit of truth do them when the great amount of lies take them over. I'm not saying you shouldn't witness to them or anyone else who believes in false doctrine but, I believe condoning the "false" while witnessing to the right is counter productive but, of course, that is your business. If you respond I will read it but I won't answer. God Bless You :)

True Jema, The Scriptures is our lamp and it does enlighten our soul through the work of the Holy Spirit in us.

Oseas,

Thank you for this Scripture filled post.

I am confused as to how it is fitting as an address to what I posted to Momsage. Can you please explain? I want to understand why you posted this to me.

Dear Hadassah,

I refer you to the reply I gave to Momsage concerning my knowledge of the teachings and practices of the Catholic Church.

I do know of the doctrines you listed and others that you have not that I think to be erroneous.

So, Hadassah, I am not as ignorant as you seem to imply. I am very well informed about the Catholic Church and other sects as I have spent much time studying this topic over the past 50 years.

Just an aside, when I was very young (9 or so) I began to read the Bible for myself. No one else encouraged me to do so at that age, though I was brought up in a traditional church that read scripture every Sunday service. Soon after that, when I was in 5th grade I determined that I only wanted to read what was true, so I stopped reading fiction books and instead read the Bible, because I knew it was true and I began to read biographies and science books, I read the dictionary, encyclopedias, history books. I was very hungry to know the truth about God, my world, and many other subjects. I was a devourer of such literature. This hunger has continued all my life.

But this knowledge does not set me apart from any other believer. We are all on the same journey towards God to come to know Him in Spirit and in truth. As I said to Momsage, in this life we know dimly or darkly) as Paul put it, but in the life to come we will know fully. We all have need of having our doctrine corrected and deepened.

Dear Hadassah,

I refer you to the reply I gave to Momsage concerning my knowledge of the teachings and practices of the Catholic Church.

I do know of the doctrines you listed and others that you have not that I think to be erroneous.

So, Hadassah, I am not as ignorant as you seem to imply. I am very well informed about the Catholic Church and other sects as I have spent much time studying this topic over the past 50 years.

Just an aside, when I was very young (9 or so) I began to read the Bible for myself. No one else encouraged me to do so at that age, though I was brought up in a traditional church that read scripture every Sunday service. Soon after that, when I was in 5th grade I determined that I only wanted to read what was true, so I stopped reading fiction books and instead read the Bible, because I knew it was true and I began to read biographies and science books, I read the dictionary, encyclopedias, history books. I was very hungry to know the truth about God, my world, and many other subjects. I was a devourer of such literature. This hunger has continued all my life.

But this knowledge does not set me apart from any other believer. We are all on the same journey towards God to come to know Him in Spirit and in truth. As I said to Momsage, in this life we know dimly or darkly) as Paul put it, but in the life to come we will know fully. We all have need of having our doctrine corrected and deepened.