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15...The kingdoms OF THIS WORLD are become the Kingdoms of our Lord, and of His Christ; and He shall reign for ever and ever.
18 And the nations were(WILL BE) angry, and GOD's WRATH is come ... and should destroy them which destroy the earth.
The message above was written around 95AD to be LITERALLY fulfilled in the future( Revelation 1:1) , and now, even now, from now on, the prophecy will LITERALLY be executed, for GOD is wrathed against all nations and they will be destroyed, include the current Israel, and only and only will be saved a remnant of Israel- Micah 7:18-20, in fact only 144K will be saved- Revelation 7:1-8. And the others?
The others? Matthew 23:33-35
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers (why serpents? why generation of vipers? The answer is in John 8:44.Take a look), how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
The Word is GOD, GOD Himself, self-executing, understand?
Paul Owen posted an article today arguing that the second century church father Irenaeus believed in infant baptism. None of the passages Paul cites refer to infant baptism, but Paul assumes that the practice is implied. In past responses to Paul, I've given some examples of Christians of the patristic era opposing his claims about infant baptism, and I've cited the patristic scholar David Wright commenting on the subject. Even if Irenaeus had believed in infant baptism, Paul's original assertions would still be false. But does the evidence suggest that Irenaeus believed in infant baptism?
Paul writes:
"In his treatise Against Heresies (II.22.4) he [Irenaeus] writes: 'He came to save all through means of Himself-all, I say, who through Him are born again to God-infants, and children, and boys, and youths, and old men.' Irenaeus clearly believed that 'infants' in the Church were 'born again' to God, the same as children, youths and adults."
And:
"Like all other Catholic Christians, he believed that the new birth was received through water baptism: 'And again, giving to the disciples the power of regeneration into God, He said to them, Go and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost' (Against Heresies, III.17.1). Cf. also Irenaeus: 'As we are lepers in sin, we are made clean by means of the sacred water and the invocation of the Lord, from our old transgressions, being spiritually regenerated as newborn babes' (cited by J. Pelikan, The Emergence of the Catholic Tradition (100-600), p. 164)."
They were put to death by stoning; they were sawed in two; they were killed by the sword. They went about in sheepskins and goatskins, destitute, persecuted and mistreated-
Other parts of this passage mention torture and wandering as nomads. It is fairly clear that when people are put to severe physical suffering and or death directly because of their profession of faith that persecution is occurring. When we look to the individuals who are exiled or made homeless because of either being directly evicted or put in a position of poverty because of their faith (even related to a caste system so encompassing anyone not in the elite status) it can be less clear. Some of this seems like "collateral damage"; and if we look at more subtle things such as verbal abuse and harassment on the job it may be even less clear. No doubt having a work ethic to work "heartily unto the Lord" (Coossians 3:23); to work as unto the Lord and to be above reproach thus not agreeing to use illegal means to promote the econonic status also can have fallout. Of course we must be diligent not to be robbing from our employer's time in having conversations that cause us to deviate from the work at hand; such much normally be reserved for break or after work hours; although there are times when in my own situation I have had to emphasize that I'd better clock out when being alone with one individual on my past job discussing theology. A lot; of course would depend on how complex the task is; there have been one or two times I can think of specifically when working in a warehouse; for instance when the whole production line jammed and there was literally nothing else to do at that time but usually there is some mundane task we can do to fill in for these moments.
Jesus promised that all who were Godly in Christ Jesus would be persecuted ( 2 Tim. 3:12; John 15:20). The origin and SOURCE of this situation is nearly always Satan's minions.
Romans 8:18-25 - written in Corinth during Paul's 3rd missionary journey - around year 57 AD;
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. (According Philippians 3:20-21 combined with 1Corinthians 15:51-57 and Luke 20:35-36)
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of GOD.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
...
John 3:31-36
31 He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.
32 And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony.
33 He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that GOD is true.
34 For he whom GOD hath sent speaketh the words of GOD: for GOD giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.
35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into His hand.
36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of GOD abideth on him.
Around 2000 years ago or much probably 67AD was written the book of Hebrews. Hebrews 6:1-3 say:
1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward GOD,
2 Of the doctrine of BAPTISMS, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal Judgment.
3 And this will we do, if GOD permit.
Hebrews 5:12-14
12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of GOD; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the Word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
Around 2000 years ago or much probably 60/65AD was written the book of Matthew. JESUS said: Matthew 24:14 and 32-35
14 - This Gospel of the Kingdom shall be preached in ALL THE WORLD for a witness unto ALL NATIONS; and then shall the END
come. (The TESTIMONY OF OUR LORD JESUS IS THE SPIRIT OF PROPHECY, UNDERSTAND? Revelation 19:10)
32 Now LEARN a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, KNOW THAT IT IS NEAR, even AT THE DOORS.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
GET READY
Philippians 3:20-21
20 For our conversation is in heaven(heaven? Ephesians 1:3-8); from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
21 Who shall CHANGE our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto His glorious body, according to the working whereby He is able even to subdue all things unto Himself.
My Lord JESUS said: All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth...and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the END of the world. Amen. Matthew 28:18...
1 Corinthians 15:24-27KJV
24 The END cometh, when he shall have delivered up the Kingdom to GOD, even the Father( Luke 20:35-36); when he shall have PUT DOWN all RULE and all AUTHORITY and POWER.
JESUS does not need to be visible here on earth or present in Person to perform the strange work as Isaiah prophesied: Isaiah 28:21-22
21 For the Lord shall rise up as in mount Perazim, he shall be wroth as in the valley of Gibeon, that He may do His WORK, His strange WORK; and bring to pass His act, His strange act.
22 Now therefore be ye not mockers, lest your bands be made strong: for I HAVE HEARD FROM THE LORD GOD OF HOSTS a CONSUMPTION, even determined upon the WHOLE EARTH.
Luke 21:26-27
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.(cloud?it is the same cloud of Acts 1:9-11, understand? it has nothing to do with cloud or H2O around the whole world, such a thought is/would be ridiculous. Take a look)
By the way, The NATIONS will be wrathed, but the WRATH of our GOD comes... and He should destroy them which destroy the earth.
My Lord JESUS said: All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth...and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the END of the world. Amen. Matthew 28:18...
1 Corinthians 15:24-27KJV
24 The END cometh, when he shall have delivered up the Kingdom to GOD, even the Father( Luke 20:35-36); when he shall have PUT DOWN all RULE and all AUTHORITY and POWER.
25 For he must reign, till he hath PUT ALL ENEMIES UNDER FEET.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
GET READY
Peter Apostle warned: 2Peter 3:12-14
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the Day of GOD (this Day arrived, the seventh and last Day or seventh and last millennium),
wherein the heavens( Ephesians 1:3-8-OT and NT) being on FIRE- Isaiah 20-21 AND 19- shall be DISSOLVED, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of Him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
Luke 22:36 states: Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
Luke 9:54 And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?
I am not going to take this posting to decide to support one viewpoint over the other as to having a weapon of protection or relying just on prayer. I will simply state that different circumstances may merit different approaches. I also will add that in the case of the passage in Luke; we are looking at defending ourselves along paths where dangerous criminals tend to hang out so that long term travel after the Lord went to heaven would necessitate this wisdom at times according to Christ. When it comes to the government; we don't see any evidence in scripture in the New Testament of active resistance but just one or two occasions when Paul appealed his beatings as a Roman citizen; which probably was primarily to continue to allow others in the same position as himself to continue to preach the Gospel for a time.
We also see that in the church age the Lord works differently then in other times. When Elijah comes as one of the two end time prophets he and the other prophet WILL indeed cause fire to come down and kill anyone resisting them. We have; therefore the final dispensation that the Lord will use signs and wonders gifts; the complete fulfillment of Joel 2 started at the time of Pentecost. (sorry about that d word it isn't necessarily favored by some but I don't know a better way of describing two such distinct periods of time)
We also see a difference; of course with the Tribulation saints who say "how long" until vengeance is given for their martyrdom ( Rev. 6:10). I am sure that since the death of all saints is precious in His sight ( Psalm 116:15) all martyrs are avenged.
Luke 6 says in these two verses: 46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
47 Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:
And John 14:23
23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Proverbs 8:36 states that those who hate God love death (that is also somewhere in John I believe).
I am going out on a limb here somewhat; but I would say that in the context of verses in John and 1 John that indicate
evidence of saving faith is loving the brethren that would necessitate as with these other passages that first there is in
the individual a hearing of the Word of God. That would be probably what scripture would define as calling someone; or the "general call". The parable of the seed and the sower shows that; with the exception of the one in stony ground that Satan steals immediately; there is a process where BEFORE fruit comes to maturity there is a testing of trials as well as worldly temptations to try to thwart fruit coming to maturity.
At the very least; this proves that some come to faith and immediately begin to grow when they first hear the Gospel and others fall away. It also shows the third possibility such as is illustrated in Matthew 21:29-31 about two sons; one of whom says he won't follow but later does; and vice versa. This could be insight as to those who appear to be averse to conversion but later come to faith; along with a warning of those who only make a VERBAL assent but don't have a heart change as indicated by Romans 10:9. I haven't heard this analysis but think there is some merit to it; as anyone who falls away short of producing good fruit appears NOT to be saved in reality. Could part of being saved be our reaction to the testing of God? This could be a key factor many are missing and these verses show deeds follow words.
The kingdoms OF THIS WORLD(world of Devil)are become the kingdoms of our Lord,and of His Christ;and He shall reign for ever and ever.
...
18And the nations were(WILL BE)angry,and thy WRATH is come,and the time of the dead,that they should be Judged,and that thou should give reward unto thy servants the prophets,and to the saints,and them that fear thy name,small and great;and should DESTROY them which destroy the earth.
19And the temple of GOD was(will be)opened in heaven,and there was seen(then will be seen)in his temple the ark of his testament.
Re.21:8-But the fearful(COWARDS),and unbelieving,and the abominable,and murderers,and whoremongers,and sorcerers,and idolaters,and all liars,shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone:which is the second death.
Get ready
1Corinthians 15:24-27
24The END cometh, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to GOD, even the Father; when he shall have PUT DOWN all RULE and all AUTHORITY and power. (according 2Peter 3:7-18)
25For he must reign, till he hath PUT ALL ENEMIES under his feet.
26The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27For GOD hath put all things under His feet.But when He saith all things are put under Him, it is manifest that He is excepted, which did put all things under Him.
Get ready
Revelation 21:2-4
And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from GOD out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of GOD is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and GOD himself shall be with them, and be their GOD. And GOD shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
Are you ready? they that are ready will be with Him to the marriage: and the door is shut. The foolish virgins still are far away buying oil.
Greek and Hebrew. There is creeping into the church the idea that if only you know the Hebrew and Greek of scripture yiu will understand it's true meaning . This is false . " For what knoweth the things of man save the spirit that is in man? Likewise then what knoweth the things of God save the Spirit of God"
For was not Hebrew tye mother tongue of the pharaseees? Yet how+many understood the scriptures? As they should have ben understood ? And did not persecute Jesus by their understanding ? " Ye boast in the s ruptures the Lord said but know not Him of whom they speak"
And Saul of Tarsus did he not know Greek and Hebrew? Yet did he understand the scriptures as they should be understood ? NO . Inso far by his lack of understanding he persecuted tye church and was in agreement with Stephens death
" All scripture is inspired by God " therefore if the Holy Spirit was needed to inspire men so to write the scriptures then in the same measure the Holy Spirit is needed to understand what is written .
And without Him we will inevitably go astray be it in English ,Hebrew or Greek .
Seeing the Holy Spirit in others: Focus on Pastors
Getting back to my primary point on this specific subject; I will make an assumption that we are following a Pastor who is apparently a true believer; Biblically sound and therefore qualified to lead the local congregation as the example of who we can desire to emulate. That; of course is a tall order with the state and condition of churches in general at this hour.
A cult of personality; nonetheless can still rear its ugly head even in this situation. The first rule of thumb; of course is to determine if indeed a church is still teaching correct doctrine or if error is creeping in as that is a top method of the enemy. When one is puffed up there is danger of a little leaven creeping in. ( Romans 11:21). Revelation 2:4 mentions losing our first love while teaching is basically correct doctrinally.
There is; as my initial post alluded to distractions in the flesh. There is no doubt that many megachurches in particular are focused on young; attractive people in leadership as either Pastors or Music Directors in particular. I have gotten into that on previous occasions; so I won't elaborate here.
Ok; with the preliminaries well examined I will ask what seems to be a dumb question: How do we properly view a good Pastor or other leader? From my premise I have established that no man is perfect; but I'll say it straight out-no man is perfect.
Psalm 37:37 says to "mark the perfect man"; there are other N.T. references to being perfect but clearly this means fully mature. It should be clear that proper teaching must also be accompanied by proper living out of the Gospel. Given that IS occurring to the best of our understanding-then what? How do we allow this experience to transform us?
To be a conduit of truth; no doubt best aids the rest of the congregation through genuinely listening to the gifts of others in our midst. This means proper doctrine as well as timely messages edifying at the time.
Walking in the Spirit-Study on how to see the Lord in others
Let us focus again on the Matthew 16 passage. 13 When Jesus came into the region of Caesarea Philippi, He asked His disciples, saying, "Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?"
14 So they said, "Some say John the Baptist, some Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets."
15 He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?"
16 Simon Peter answered and said, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."
17 Jesus answered and said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.
I am hammering home this concept because it is paramount in understanding who the Lord is; and needed to be understood if anyone is to grow as a true Disciple. Let us examine several problems here. The first problem would be considering that somehow the soul of one of these three prophets was living inside Christ which seems to be the concept here; a sort of "reincarnation"; except for the case of John the Baptist who it appears Herod thought had repossessed Christ after having him killed ( Matthew 14:1-2). The concept of the Holy Ghost manifesting in someone as He did with someone else isn't entirely wrong or unscriptural; we see for instance Elisha having a double portion of the Spirit that Elijah had ( 2 Kings 2:9). John the Baptist also was like Elijah in a way ( Matthew 17:12). This correct analogy of course is NOT what people are saying. This fits in also to those who would call Him teacher or Rabbi. Luke 16:15 warns us that what is honorable among men is an abomination to God. Names and titles mean nothing; neither does human pride. Let us once again examine this concept of exaltation of Pastors.
The easy point to make here is that we should never put men on a pedestal; or substitute worship for God alone to a man.
This doesn't change the fact that we should seek examples to emulate; as it is essential for discipleship.
2 Corinthians 5:16 states: Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
13 When Jesus came into the region of Caesarea Philippi, He asked His disciples, saying, "Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?" 14 So they said, "Some say John the Baptist, some Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets."
15 He said to them, "But who do you say that I am? 16 Simon Peter answered and said, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." 17 Jesus answered and said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. ( Matthew 16:13-17)
I feel compelled to try to describe how we are to be filled with the Holy Spirit and the best way to describe it. My first point is how NOT to approach this.
Concept #1 DO NOT put a person; no matter how Godly they appear to be as your focus on how you view Christ.
This is the most pressing issue here on this topic. We are indeed caught between two extremes here. In the Body of Christ we have the only tangible evidence of a demonstration of living out a life filled with the Spirit including the fruits AND gifts thereof.
We therefore MUST have examples of those who have discipled us in order to emulate ( 1 Cor. 11:1). Paul; of course was the penultimate example of a man sold out for the Lord; in word and in deed. 2 Corinthians 10:10 says; however this: For some say, "His letters are weighty and forceful, but his physical presence is unimpressive, and his speaking is of no account." Paul was apparently despite intensive training in the past as a Jew in the Torah not a gifted public speaker; at least giving a sermon.
He certainly seemed to have no problem speaking in large crowds; in prison and in other situations. We of course can't overlook the fact that he used to be Saul; who was behind intense persecution of Christians pre-salvation.
I had an elder brother in the faith; who I respect very much challenge me today in regard to always trying to understand certain concepts; today the issue specifically was in regard to the passages that state "I never knew you" after all the self proclaimed actions of the individuals only showed they did things in their own power or God worked despite that. I was told not to focus on WHY so much and concentrate on my own walk; devotions; evangelism; etc. It was brought to my attention that he knew someone who was downcast after hoarding an entire room of perhaps hundreds of books (I assume not Bibles per se) to get certain answers.
I thought but after a couple attempts to explain I gave up (and the service was about to start) that I was genuinely seeking answers to scripture; and did note that he had a bad experience with the Charismatic and Pentacostal crowd in the past (who I was busy explaining had a differing view on the Trinity). I was bringing up a point which I tried to explore here; as to why those who are into the Oneness Gospel often have a couple other traits. I bring this up because perhaps he was warning me of hanging out with that crowd and not trying to figure out what goes on there. It seems from what I could gather that he was saying that emotionalism wasn't something to be counted upon in general.
In regard to this site and my postings; I am concerned of my own motives as well as the time spent discussing various doctrinal issues primarily as being something I am doing for my own entertainment or just to get attention. I certainly enjoy the company here albeit there is usually only a few who respond at least regularly. I do have a desire to warn against the subtle devices of the enemy; as well as how news especially internationally is skewed and attempt to present it from a Biblical viewpoint not just what necessarily is accepted as "Christian".
Should my focus change on what I discuss here? Insight?
Last in this series let us look what it is to be 'That God may be all in all.' So the superscription refers to the day of regeneration. "Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power."(v.24). St Paul refers to the saying of Jesus and rounding off the Spirit of truth in his ministry. "If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him."( John 14:2-23)
Jesus refers to it as 'In that day'. Remember the body aspect of Trinity as a memorial? It covers the heaven the earth and the lower parts. Here we read how all enemies to Christ have been finally disposed off. "And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works./And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death./And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."(Re.20:13-15) The sea giving up the dead is fulfillment of this verse, "The Lord sitteth upon the flood; yea, the Lord sitteth King for ever."(Ps.29:10)The term forever refers to the Son. "that in all things he might have the preeminence. For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell.in" This is what God 'be all in all' signifies.
Before that to happen we have this verse in the Book of Isaiah to consider. "And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more."(Is.2:4)
"And the nations of the which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it."(Re.21:24)
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off (crucified), but not for Himself: and the people of the prince that shall come (the esoteric and kabbalistic false messiah- John 5:43-47 combined with Revelation 13:11) shall DESTROY the CITY (Jerusalem) and the SANCTUARY-> Revelation 13:2->the dragon, the esoteric false messiah of Judaism- Revelation 13:11 gave(will give) him (will give to the Beast of sea-ruler of Catholicism) his Power, and his Throne, and great Authority.; and the END thereof shall be with a flood( Luke 21:24; Revelation 11:2; Revelation 12:15?), and unto the END of the WAR ( Revelation 16:13-15) desolations are determined.
27 And he (the profane prince of Israel that shall come- Ezekiel 21:25, John 5:43-47; 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4; Revelation 13:11) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week(covenant with the whole religious structures of the RCC-Judaism and Catholicism- Revelation 13:2): and in the midst of the week( Revelation 13:5) he- the profane wicked prince of Israel, the false messiah- shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease ( 2Thessalonians 2:6-9), and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation ( Revelation 16:13-15), and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
As stated in some comments some months ago; we should still be able to trust God in regard to His Word; and that indeed He can and will prosper people financially. In this world we should adhere to 1 Timothy 6:17
Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;
Some are born into riches; others earn it through hard work and God's Providence of resulting financial success. Money is uncertain and we can't put our trust in things that "moth and rust" corrupt ( Matt. 6:19).
Certainly it isn't Pastors who should be cornering the market or seeking "filthy lucre" ( Titus 1:11 AND 1 Peter 5:2). The best they can hope for is making it into heaven as through the fire; but there is probably a much better chance they aren't saved at all. Only God knows but why make that lifestyle your legacy?
What we see today is more of these so called "Apostles" dying; while others making half hearted "repentance" statements then continuing on with the sin of covetousness; much like the parable of a dog returning to its own vomit ( Proverbs 26:11). We certainly bring nothing into this world and we aren't taking anything out ( 1 Timothy 6:7). What we can do is gain heavenly treasure by harvesting souls ( Matt. 6:19).
He who covers or conceals his sin is not doing themselves any favors. ( Proverbs 28:13). It actually says the man will not prosper. There are enough warnings in scripture including to the Pharisees as to the spiritual ramifications of continuing in such behaviors and many others in the Old Testament as well.
Ultimately; the desire for fame and popularity is tied into those with this narcissistic mindset and lifestyle. All will be lost after this life; which is as a vapor has passed. Let us live lives in strict obedience and holiness not due to compulsion but love and gratitude for what Christ did for us.
With the many traits; which left us with a rather bitter taste in our mouths in regard to less than desirable characteristics of Pentacostals and many fundamentalists at least one thing they often get right; that is emphasizing the cost of serving Christ. At least for the layperson whose status is often viewed as being either as a base servant or useless idiots to amass cash for the "fearless leaders" they usually are given strong messages about living a life of "Holiness"; or how important service and sacrifice is for the cause of the Lord. With this mindset; perhaps some good can be accomplished for the Kingdom in the fields of harvest for those who serve in these churches in missions or other services to the down and out in society. That of course would be despite excesses and other garbage from the leaders who are often referred to as "the Lord's anointed." If some of this sounds sarcastic; yes indeed it is. I may not be a worthy vessel but somebody has to say this; if to see just one more person freed from this tyranny.
Before going on here; I should also say that many fundamentalists do have those even in leadership who truly care for their congregation and are NOT in the category of prosperity preachers. Same could be said for the evangelical crowd; although they have in recent years departed from Orthodoxy so that you can't count on the former foundations or pillars to mean that the current state of any denomination is sound without careful inspection. Sometimes today the rotton stench doesn't take very long to sniff out; if you get my drift.
Anyway my point in this posting is how come none of these Prosperity gospel preachers are being persecuted? I thought that all who were Godly in Christ Jesus would be persecuted. ( 2 Tim. 3:12-13). We better take heed and read all of 1 and 2 Timothy; it seems because a lot of these issues are well covered there as to what is happening today.
When the stormy winds are raging, and disasters take their toll
When the mighty waves of trouble overwhelm your stricken soul
Look to God who reigns above, never doubt Him He is Love
Are you filled with eager longing for the earth's night to turn to day
God will soon dispel all sorrow, He will wipe all tears away
For His Kingdom will soon come and His will on earth be done
No matter what we are facing, the tribulations we are in, and those things that we have yet to face. If we are in Christ and He in us, we must remember this life we are living is not our own. Our hope is in the life to come that is given by the grace of God by the sacrifice of His Son and His resurrection. We are to walk with Him daily, if we do, we have been given a promise, that Jesus will return with the gift of immortality to those who are His.
Romans 8:35-39 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. 37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. 38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
The saints redeemed from the earth are preserved till the new heaven and new earth are being ready for them. These are the first fruits. "And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads."(Re.14:1) Daniel gives us a clue. He touches upon the great tribulation and gives us two numbers, "There shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days./ Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days."(Dan.12:11-12) Blessed refers to the first fruits. ("A thousand two hundred and threescore days'-Re.12:6 is another way of saying time, times and a half the tag on the period of the earthly ministry of Jesus).
The Millennial reign (Is.11:6-9)is from the holy mountain of Zion while we have the nations enjoying a lull from the terrible times. "The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid" Rome (the wolf) the leopard (Greece) are merely labels for many nations. "They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain."
Notice the expression, "in that day"? Is.11:10-12. He shall recover a remnant 'The second time" And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious. And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people."
Re.20:7-8 "And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,/And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, " This millennial period is between the breaking of the sixth and the seventh seal.
It's a humbling experience when you first begin to understand, when you realize what Peter was saying, when you first realize that loving God, genuinely loving God does not mean you will not suffer, does not mean worldly prosperity, does not mean safety from physical pain, does not mean the salvation of your physical body, i.e. you cannot put new wine into old skins. When I realized the absolute submission and belief in God that Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego demonstrated, they were going to be thrown into a fire. When I realized the depths of what Jesus did, when at any time he could have ended it all, yet he endured it all. Not my will, he said, but YOUR WILL, Father. How many could genuinely love and trust God anyway, while being tortured, persecuted, suffering and enduring unmerciful and unjust pain and agony. Job never laid the responsibility on anyone else besides God and Jesus said it was God's will and Peter said there is no authority that exist without God and that only those who do wrong need to fear those that he put the governing sword in their hand. Who was it that wrote Colossians 1:16, stating all things were created by him and for him. Can you still love that God, the one that will surely save your spirit and give you the power to the saving of your soul (the overcomer) yet, you may not get anything much that you really want in and of the world and everyone may look at you as if you must have done wrong. You must be evil, because you are suffering so much; you are not successful, you are not a fighter, you are not what they think you ought to be. They had Jesus murdered for it and the fact is that God knew that is what they would do. Jesus knew that is what human beings would do even after he had walked among them for three years, they chose to set a murderer free and crucify an innocent man. They didn't choose the simplicity of basic principles do justly, have mercy and walk humbly. Could you really love and believe God when he allowed evil - Peter?
v.1 "Afterward he brought me again unto the door of the house." The Spirit uses Afterward with direct reference to the measuring of the holy city of God.(Re.21:15-16) We need look at this vision from the tree of life being positioned on this side of the river where the throne of God and of the Lamb is situated. (Re.22:1). This water which flows from the threshold "And, behold, waters issued out from under the threshold of the house eastward" requires explanation. Threshold is set as the line connecting the two thrones" so the pure water of life ("a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb," is implied here. Another word 'eastward' also requires help. We are looking at the nations 'the kings of the east' that includes Israel as well. Drying of the river Euphrates so "that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared" draws Israel as hostile to the saints following the Word of God. (Re.16:12; 19:14) Prophet Ezekiel refers to 'top of the mountains' ,-Zion, as a high mountain(Is.2:2). So Ez.40:2 we have this verse " set me upon a very high mountain."
vv.2-5 we have "the man that had the line" proceeding with measuring. What does 4x1000 tell us? Compare John's vision where the golden reed shows 12x100 furlongs. "And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal."(21:16) Ezekiel according to his Jewish sensitivities gives us the decalogue as base unit.
Another point we need consider is this line, "and the waters came down from under from the right side of the house" Always it holds to the rightside of the house or the throne. Consider the verse:"The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool." (Ps.110:1) The earth is designated as the footstool in relation to the Son. He is the judge.
24:1 The earth is the Lord's,and the fulness thereof; the world,and they that dwell therein. -->(Comment:Luke:4:8-9:->8The Devil taketh JESUS up into an exceeding high mountain, sheweth Him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; 9 And he said to the Lord GOD, Lord JESUS: All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.)
Yes,"The earth is the Lord's,and the fulness thereof;the world,and they that dwell therein",This is true,of course, but what the Devil said to JESUS is lie, he is the father of lie, never abode in the Truth- John 8:44.
24:2 For the Lord hath founded it upon the seas, and established it upon the floods.
3 Who shall ascend into the hill of the Lord?(Satan intends to climb the mountain of the Lord- Isaiah 14:13-15),or who shall stand in His holy place?
4 He that hath clean hands, and a pure heart; who hath not lifted up his soul unto vanity, nor sworn deceitfully.
5 He shall receive the blessing from the Lord, and righteousness from the GOD of His salvation.
6 This is the generation of them that seek Him, that seek thy face, O Jacob.Selah.
7 Lift up your heads, O ye gates, and be ye lift up, ye everlasting doors; and the King of glory shall come in.
8 Who is this King of glory? The Lord strong and mighty, the Lord mighty in battle. (in the war)
9 Lift up your heads, O ye gates; even lift them up, ye everlasting doors; and the King of glory shall come in.
10 Who is this King of glory? The Lord of hosts, He is the King of glory.Selah.
Now unto the King Eternal, Immortal, Invisible, the only wise GOD, be Honour and Glory for ever and ever. Amen.(1Ti.1:17)
15...The kingdoms OF THIS WORLD are become the Kingdoms of our Lord, and of His Christ; and He shall reign for ever and ever.
18 And the nations were(WILL BE) angry, and GOD's WRATH is come ... and should destroy them which destroy the earth.
The message above was written around 95AD to be LITERALLY fulfilled in the future( Revelation 1:1) , and now, even now, from now on, the prophecy will LITERALLY be executed, for GOD is wrathed against all nations and they will be destroyed, include the current Israel, and only and only will be saved a remnant of Israel- Micah 7:18-20, in fact only 144K will be saved- Revelation 7:1-8. And the others?
The others? Matthew 23:33-35
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers (why serpents? why generation of vipers? The answer is in John 8:44.Take a look), how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
The Word is GOD, GOD Himself, self-executing, understand?
Get ready
Part 1.
Tuesday, February 28, 2006
Paul Owen posted an article today arguing that the second century church father Irenaeus believed in infant baptism. None of the passages Paul cites refer to infant baptism, but Paul assumes that the practice is implied. In past responses to Paul, I've given some examples of Christians of the patristic era opposing his claims about infant baptism, and I've cited the patristic scholar David Wright commenting on the subject. Even if Irenaeus had believed in infant baptism, Paul's original assertions would still be false. But does the evidence suggest that Irenaeus believed in infant baptism?
Paul writes:
"In his treatise Against Heresies (II.22.4) he [Irenaeus] writes: 'He came to save all through means of Himself-all, I say, who through Him are born again to God-infants, and children, and boys, and youths, and old men.' Irenaeus clearly believed that 'infants' in the Church were 'born again' to God, the same as children, youths and adults."
And:
"Like all other Catholic Christians, he believed that the new birth was received through water baptism: 'And again, giving to the disciples the power of regeneration into God, He said to them, Go and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost' (Against Heresies, III.17.1). Cf. also Irenaeus: 'As we are lepers in sin, we are made clean by means of the sacred water and the invocation of the Lord, from our old transgressions, being spiritually regenerated as newborn babes' (cited by J. Pelikan, The Emergence of the Catholic Tradition (100-600), p. 164)."
See part 2.
Hebrews 11:37
They were put to death by stoning; they were sawed in two; they were killed by the sword. They went about in sheepskins and goatskins, destitute, persecuted and mistreated-
Other parts of this passage mention torture and wandering as nomads. It is fairly clear that when people are put to severe physical suffering and or death directly because of their profession of faith that persecution is occurring. When we look to the individuals who are exiled or made homeless because of either being directly evicted or put in a position of poverty because of their faith (even related to a caste system so encompassing anyone not in the elite status) it can be less clear. Some of this seems like "collateral damage"; and if we look at more subtle things such as verbal abuse and harassment on the job it may be even less clear. No doubt having a work ethic to work "heartily unto the Lord" (Coossians 3:23); to work as unto the Lord and to be above reproach thus not agreeing to use illegal means to promote the econonic status also can have fallout. Of course we must be diligent not to be robbing from our employer's time in having conversations that cause us to deviate from the work at hand; such much normally be reserved for break or after work hours; although there are times when in my own situation I have had to emphasize that I'd better clock out when being alone with one individual on my past job discussing theology. A lot; of course would depend on how complex the task is; there have been one or two times I can think of specifically when working in a warehouse; for instance when the whole production line jammed and there was literally nothing else to do at that time but usually there is some mundane task we can do to fill in for these moments.
Jesus promised that all who were Godly in Christ Jesus would be persecuted ( 2 Tim. 3:12; John 15:20). The origin and SOURCE of this situation is nearly always Satan's minions.
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. (According Philippians 3:20-21 combined with 1Corinthians 15:51-57 and Luke 20:35-36)
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of GOD.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
...
John 3:31-36
31 He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.
32 And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony.
33 He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that GOD is true.
34 For he whom GOD hath sent speaketh the words of GOD: for GOD giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.
35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into His hand.
36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of GOD abideth on him.
1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward GOD,
2 Of the doctrine of BAPTISMS, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal Judgment.
3 And this will we do, if GOD permit.
Hebrews 5:12-14
12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of GOD; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the Word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
Around 2000 years ago or much probably 60/65AD was written the book of Matthew. JESUS said: Matthew 24:14 and 32-35
14 - This Gospel of the Kingdom shall be preached in ALL THE WORLD for a witness unto ALL NATIONS; and then shall the END
come. (The TESTIMONY OF OUR LORD JESUS IS THE SPIRIT OF PROPHECY, UNDERSTAND? Revelation 19:10)
32 Now LEARN a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, KNOW THAT IT IS NEAR, even AT THE DOORS.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
GET READY
Philippians 3:20-21
20 For our conversation is in heaven(heaven? Ephesians 1:3-8); from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
21 Who shall CHANGE our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto His glorious body, according to the working whereby He is able even to subdue all things unto Himself.
The Word is GOD, GOD Himself, self-executing
Those 3 B's should happen in a particular order. What is that order?
Is it...
You Believe which makes you Born again, and then you can get Baptized?
You get Baptized, you get Born again, and then you Believe?
You Believe, get Baptized, and then you're born again?
etc.
I will say, I do have an answer for the order and why, but I would love to see your stance based on what the New Testament says about these 3 B's.
Praying that Lord be with you all as you draw closer to Him and His Son our risen, reigning, and returning Lord Jesus Christ.
1. What is baptism and what is it for?
2. Who can get baptized? (Should babies be baptized like in the RCC)
3. What conditions need to be fulfilled for someone to be baptized?
4. What is the proper mode of Baptism (sprinkling? pouring? dipping?)
1 Corinthians 15:24-27KJV
24 The END cometh, when he shall have delivered up the Kingdom to GOD, even the Father( Luke 20:35-36); when he shall have PUT DOWN all RULE and all AUTHORITY and POWER.
JESUS does not need to be visible here on earth or present in Person to perform the strange work as Isaiah prophesied: Isaiah 28:21-22
21 For the Lord shall rise up as in mount Perazim, he shall be wroth as in the valley of Gibeon, that He may do His WORK, His strange WORK; and bring to pass His act, His strange act.
22 Now therefore be ye not mockers, lest your bands be made strong: for I HAVE HEARD FROM THE LORD GOD OF HOSTS a CONSUMPTION, even determined upon the WHOLE EARTH.
Luke 21:26-27
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.(cloud?it is the same cloud of Acts 1:9-11, understand? it has nothing to do with cloud or H2O around the whole world, such a thought is/would be ridiculous. Take a look)
By the way, The NATIONS will be wrathed, but the WRATH of our GOD comes... and He should destroy them which destroy the earth.
GET READY
1 Corinthians 15:24-27KJV
24 The END cometh, when he shall have delivered up the Kingdom to GOD, even the Father( Luke 20:35-36); when he shall have PUT DOWN all RULE and all AUTHORITY and POWER.
25 For he must reign, till he hath PUT ALL ENEMIES UNDER FEET.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
GET READY
Peter Apostle warned: 2Peter 3:12-14
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the Day of GOD (this Day arrived, the seventh and last Day or seventh and last millennium),
wherein the heavens( Ephesians 1:3-8-OT and NT) being on FIRE- Isaiah 20-21 AND 19- shall be DISSOLVED, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of Him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
Get ready, do what GOD recommended- Isaiah 20-21
Luke 22:36 states: Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
Luke 9:54 And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?
I am not going to take this posting to decide to support one viewpoint over the other as to having a weapon of protection or relying just on prayer. I will simply state that different circumstances may merit different approaches. I also will add that in the case of the passage in Luke; we are looking at defending ourselves along paths where dangerous criminals tend to hang out so that long term travel after the Lord went to heaven would necessitate this wisdom at times according to Christ. When it comes to the government; we don't see any evidence in scripture in the New Testament of active resistance but just one or two occasions when Paul appealed his beatings as a Roman citizen; which probably was primarily to continue to allow others in the same position as himself to continue to preach the Gospel for a time.
We also see that in the church age the Lord works differently then in other times. When Elijah comes as one of the two end time prophets he and the other prophet WILL indeed cause fire to come down and kill anyone resisting them. We have; therefore the final dispensation that the Lord will use signs and wonders gifts; the complete fulfillment of Joel 2 started at the time of Pentecost. (sorry about that d word it isn't necessarily favored by some but I don't know a better way of describing two such distinct periods of time)
We also see a difference; of course with the Tribulation saints who say "how long" until vengeance is given for their martyrdom ( Rev. 6:10). I am sure that since the death of all saints is precious in His sight ( Psalm 116:15) all martyrs are avenged.
47 Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:
And John 14:23
23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Proverbs 8:36 states that those who hate God love death (that is also somewhere in John I believe).
I am going out on a limb here somewhat; but I would say that in the context of verses in John and 1 John that indicate
evidence of saving faith is loving the brethren that would necessitate as with these other passages that first there is in
the individual a hearing of the Word of God. That would be probably what scripture would define as calling someone; or the "general call". The parable of the seed and the sower shows that; with the exception of the one in stony ground that Satan steals immediately; there is a process where BEFORE fruit comes to maturity there is a testing of trials as well as worldly temptations to try to thwart fruit coming to maturity.
At the very least; this proves that some come to faith and immediately begin to grow when they first hear the Gospel and others fall away. It also shows the third possibility such as is illustrated in Matthew 21:29-31 about two sons; one of whom says he won't follow but later does; and vice versa. This could be insight as to those who appear to be averse to conversion but later come to faith; along with a warning of those who only make a VERBAL assent but don't have a heart change as indicated by Romans 10:9. I haven't heard this analysis but think there is some merit to it; as anyone who falls away short of producing good fruit appears NOT to be saved in reality. Could part of being saved be our reaction to the testing of God? This could be a key factor many are missing and these verses show deeds follow words.
The kingdoms OF THIS WORLD(world of Devil)are become the kingdoms of our Lord,and of His Christ;and He shall reign for ever and ever.
...
18And the nations were(WILL BE)angry,and thy WRATH is come,and the time of the dead,that they should be Judged,and that thou should give reward unto thy servants the prophets,and to the saints,and them that fear thy name,small and great;and should DESTROY them which destroy the earth.
19And the temple of GOD was(will be)opened in heaven,and there was seen(then will be seen)in his temple the ark of his testament.
Re.21:8-But the fearful(COWARDS),and unbelieving,and the abominable,and murderers,and whoremongers,and sorcerers,and idolaters,and all liars,shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone:which is the second death.
Get ready
1Corinthians 15:24-27
24The END cometh, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to GOD, even the Father; when he shall have PUT DOWN all RULE and all AUTHORITY and power. (according 2Peter 3:7-18)
25For he must reign, till he hath PUT ALL ENEMIES under his feet.
26The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27For GOD hath put all things under His feet.But when He saith all things are put under Him, it is manifest that He is excepted, which did put all things under Him.
Get ready
Revelation 21:2-4
And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from GOD out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of GOD is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and GOD himself shall be with them, and be their GOD. And GOD shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
Are you ready? they that are ready will be with Him to the marriage: and the door is shut. The foolish virgins still are far away buying oil.
For was not Hebrew tye mother tongue of the pharaseees? Yet how+many understood the scriptures? As they should have ben understood ? And did not persecute Jesus by their understanding ? " Ye boast in the s ruptures the Lord said but know not Him of whom they speak"
And Saul of Tarsus did he not know Greek and Hebrew? Yet did he understand the scriptures as they should be understood ? NO . Inso far by his lack of understanding he persecuted tye church and was in agreement with Stephens death
" All scripture is inspired by God " therefore if the Holy Spirit was needed to inspire men so to write the scriptures then in the same measure the Holy Spirit is needed to understand what is written .
And without Him we will inevitably go astray be it in English ,Hebrew or Greek .
GB
Getting back to my primary point on this specific subject; I will make an assumption that we are following a Pastor who is apparently a true believer; Biblically sound and therefore qualified to lead the local congregation as the example of who we can desire to emulate. That; of course is a tall order with the state and condition of churches in general at this hour.
A cult of personality; nonetheless can still rear its ugly head even in this situation. The first rule of thumb; of course is to determine if indeed a church is still teaching correct doctrine or if error is creeping in as that is a top method of the enemy. When one is puffed up there is danger of a little leaven creeping in. ( Romans 11:21). Revelation 2:4 mentions losing our first love while teaching is basically correct doctrinally.
There is; as my initial post alluded to distractions in the flesh. There is no doubt that many megachurches in particular are focused on young; attractive people in leadership as either Pastors or Music Directors in particular. I have gotten into that on previous occasions; so I won't elaborate here.
Ok; with the preliminaries well examined I will ask what seems to be a dumb question: How do we properly view a good Pastor or other leader? From my premise I have established that no man is perfect; but I'll say it straight out-no man is perfect.
Psalm 37:37 says to "mark the perfect man"; there are other N.T. references to being perfect but clearly this means fully mature. It should be clear that proper teaching must also be accompanied by proper living out of the Gospel. Given that IS occurring to the best of our understanding-then what? How do we allow this experience to transform us?
To be a conduit of truth; no doubt best aids the rest of the congregation through genuinely listening to the gifts of others in our midst. This means proper doctrine as well as timely messages edifying at the time.
Let us focus again on the Matthew 16 passage. 13 When Jesus came into the region of Caesarea Philippi, He asked His disciples, saying, "Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?"
14 So they said, "Some say John the Baptist, some Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets."
15 He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?"
16 Simon Peter answered and said, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."
17 Jesus answered and said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.
I am hammering home this concept because it is paramount in understanding who the Lord is; and needed to be understood if anyone is to grow as a true Disciple. Let us examine several problems here. The first problem would be considering that somehow the soul of one of these three prophets was living inside Christ which seems to be the concept here; a sort of "reincarnation"; except for the case of John the Baptist who it appears Herod thought had repossessed Christ after having him killed ( Matthew 14:1-2). The concept of the Holy Ghost manifesting in someone as He did with someone else isn't entirely wrong or unscriptural; we see for instance Elisha having a double portion of the Spirit that Elijah had ( 2 Kings 2:9). John the Baptist also was like Elijah in a way ( Matthew 17:12). This correct analogy of course is NOT what people are saying. This fits in also to those who would call Him teacher or Rabbi. Luke 16:15 warns us that what is honorable among men is an abomination to God. Names and titles mean nothing; neither does human pride. Let us once again examine this concept of exaltation of Pastors.
The easy point to make here is that we should never put men on a pedestal; or substitute worship for God alone to a man.
This doesn't change the fact that we should seek examples to emulate; as it is essential for discipleship.
13 When Jesus came into the region of Caesarea Philippi, He asked His disciples, saying, "Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?" 14 So they said, "Some say John the Baptist, some Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets."
15 He said to them, "But who do you say that I am? 16 Simon Peter answered and said, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." 17 Jesus answered and said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. ( Matthew 16:13-17)
I feel compelled to try to describe how we are to be filled with the Holy Spirit and the best way to describe it. My first point is how NOT to approach this.
Concept #1 DO NOT put a person; no matter how Godly they appear to be as your focus on how you view Christ.
This is the most pressing issue here on this topic. We are indeed caught between two extremes here. In the Body of Christ we have the only tangible evidence of a demonstration of living out a life filled with the Spirit including the fruits AND gifts thereof.
We therefore MUST have examples of those who have discipled us in order to emulate ( 1 Cor. 11:1). Paul; of course was the penultimate example of a man sold out for the Lord; in word and in deed. 2 Corinthians 10:10 says; however this: For some say, "His letters are weighty and forceful, but his physical presence is unimpressive, and his speaking is of no account." Paul was apparently despite intensive training in the past as a Jew in the Torah not a gifted public speaker; at least giving a sermon.
He certainly seemed to have no problem speaking in large crowds; in prison and in other situations. We of course can't overlook the fact that he used to be Saul; who was behind intense persecution of Christians pre-salvation.
I had an elder brother in the faith; who I respect very much challenge me today in regard to always trying to understand certain concepts; today the issue specifically was in regard to the passages that state "I never knew you" after all the self proclaimed actions of the individuals only showed they did things in their own power or God worked despite that. I was told not to focus on WHY so much and concentrate on my own walk; devotions; evangelism; etc. It was brought to my attention that he knew someone who was downcast after hoarding an entire room of perhaps hundreds of books (I assume not Bibles per se) to get certain answers.
I thought but after a couple attempts to explain I gave up (and the service was about to start) that I was genuinely seeking answers to scripture; and did note that he had a bad experience with the Charismatic and Pentacostal crowd in the past (who I was busy explaining had a differing view on the Trinity). I was bringing up a point which I tried to explore here; as to why those who are into the Oneness Gospel often have a couple other traits. I bring this up because perhaps he was warning me of hanging out with that crowd and not trying to figure out what goes on there. It seems from what I could gather that he was saying that emotionalism wasn't something to be counted upon in general.
In regard to this site and my postings; I am concerned of my own motives as well as the time spent discussing various doctrinal issues primarily as being something I am doing for my own entertainment or just to get attention. I certainly enjoy the company here albeit there is usually only a few who respond at least regularly. I do have a desire to warn against the subtle devices of the enemy; as well as how news especially internationally is skewed and attempt to present it from a Biblical viewpoint not just what necessarily is accepted as "Christian".
Should my focus change on what I discuss here? Insight?
Agape
Last in this series let us look what it is to be 'That God may be all in all.' So the superscription refers to the day of regeneration. "Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power."(v.24). St Paul refers to the saying of Jesus and rounding off the Spirit of truth in his ministry. "If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him."( John 14:2-23)
Jesus refers to it as 'In that day'. Remember the body aspect of Trinity as a memorial? It covers the heaven the earth and the lower parts. Here we read how all enemies to Christ have been finally disposed off. "And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works./And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death./And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."(Re.20:13-15) The sea giving up the dead is fulfillment of this verse, "The Lord sitteth upon the flood; yea, the Lord sitteth King for ever."(Ps.29:10)The term forever refers to the Son. "that in all things he might have the preeminence. For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell.in" This is what God 'be all in all' signifies.
Before that to happen we have this verse in the Book of Isaiah to consider. "And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more."(Is.2:4)
"And the nations of the which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it."(Re.21:24)
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off (crucified), but not for Himself: and the people of the prince that shall come (the esoteric and kabbalistic false messiah- John 5:43-47 combined with Revelation 13:11) shall DESTROY the CITY (Jerusalem) and the SANCTUARY-> Revelation 13:2->the dragon, the esoteric false messiah of Judaism- Revelation 13:11 gave(will give) him (will give to the Beast of sea-ruler of Catholicism) his Power, and his Throne, and great Authority.; and the END thereof shall be with a flood( Luke 21:24; Revelation 11:2; Revelation 12:15?), and unto the END of the WAR ( Revelation 16:13-15) desolations are determined.
27 And he (the profane prince of Israel that shall come- Ezekiel 21:25, John 5:43-47; 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4; Revelation 13:11) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week(covenant with the whole religious structures of the RCC-Judaism and Catholicism- Revelation 13:2): and in the midst of the week( Revelation 13:5) he- the profane wicked prince of Israel, the false messiah- shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease ( 2Thessalonians 2:6-9), and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation ( Revelation 16:13-15), and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
GOD bless and get ready
As stated in some comments some months ago; we should still be able to trust God in regard to His Word; and that indeed He can and will prosper people financially. In this world we should adhere to 1 Timothy 6:17
Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;
Some are born into riches; others earn it through hard work and God's Providence of resulting financial success. Money is uncertain and we can't put our trust in things that "moth and rust" corrupt ( Matt. 6:19).
Certainly it isn't Pastors who should be cornering the market or seeking "filthy lucre" ( Titus 1:11 AND 1 Peter 5:2). The best they can hope for is making it into heaven as through the fire; but there is probably a much better chance they aren't saved at all. Only God knows but why make that lifestyle your legacy?
What we see today is more of these so called "Apostles" dying; while others making half hearted "repentance" statements then continuing on with the sin of covetousness; much like the parable of a dog returning to its own vomit ( Proverbs 26:11). We certainly bring nothing into this world and we aren't taking anything out ( 1 Timothy 6:7). What we can do is gain heavenly treasure by harvesting souls ( Matt. 6:19).
He who covers or conceals his sin is not doing themselves any favors. ( Proverbs 28:13). It actually says the man will not prosper. There are enough warnings in scripture including to the Pharisees as to the spiritual ramifications of continuing in such behaviors and many others in the Old Testament as well.
Ultimately; the desire for fame and popularity is tied into those with this narcissistic mindset and lifestyle. All will be lost after this life; which is as a vapor has passed. Let us live lives in strict obedience and holiness not due to compulsion but love and gratitude for what Christ did for us.
How do we worship God in spirit and truth? God Bless :)
With the many traits; which left us with a rather bitter taste in our mouths in regard to less than desirable characteristics of Pentacostals and many fundamentalists at least one thing they often get right; that is emphasizing the cost of serving Christ. At least for the layperson whose status is often viewed as being either as a base servant or useless idiots to amass cash for the "fearless leaders" they usually are given strong messages about living a life of "Holiness"; or how important service and sacrifice is for the cause of the Lord. With this mindset; perhaps some good can be accomplished for the Kingdom in the fields of harvest for those who serve in these churches in missions or other services to the down and out in society. That of course would be despite excesses and other garbage from the leaders who are often referred to as "the Lord's anointed." If some of this sounds sarcastic; yes indeed it is. I may not be a worthy vessel but somebody has to say this; if to see just one more person freed from this tyranny.
Before going on here; I should also say that many fundamentalists do have those even in leadership who truly care for their congregation and are NOT in the category of prosperity preachers. Same could be said for the evangelical crowd; although they have in recent years departed from Orthodoxy so that you can't count on the former foundations or pillars to mean that the current state of any denomination is sound without careful inspection. Sometimes today the rotton stench doesn't take very long to sniff out; if you get my drift.
Anyway my point in this posting is how come none of these Prosperity gospel preachers are being persecuted? I thought that all who were Godly in Christ Jesus would be persecuted. ( 2 Tim. 3:12-13). We better take heed and read all of 1 and 2 Timothy; it seems because a lot of these issues are well covered there as to what is happening today.
When the stormy winds are raging, and disasters take their toll
When the mighty waves of trouble overwhelm your stricken soul
Look to God who reigns above, never doubt Him He is Love
Are you filled with eager longing for the earth's night to turn to day
God will soon dispel all sorrow, He will wipe all tears away
For His Kingdom will soon come and His will on earth be done
No matter what we are facing, the tribulations we are in, and those things that we have yet to face. If we are in Christ and He in us, we must remember this life we are living is not our own. Our hope is in the life to come that is given by the grace of God by the sacrifice of His Son and His resurrection. We are to walk with Him daily, if we do, we have been given a promise, that Jesus will return with the gift of immortality to those who are His.
Romans 8:35-39 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. 37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. 38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
God bless,
RLW
The saints redeemed from the earth are preserved till the new heaven and new earth are being ready for them. These are the first fruits. "And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads."(Re.14:1) Daniel gives us a clue. He touches upon the great tribulation and gives us two numbers, "There shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days./ Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days."(Dan.12:11-12) Blessed refers to the first fruits. ("A thousand two hundred and threescore days'-Re.12:6 is another way of saying time, times and a half the tag on the period of the earthly ministry of Jesus).
The Millennial reign (Is.11:6-9)is from the holy mountain of Zion while we have the nations enjoying a lull from the terrible times. "The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid" Rome (the wolf) the leopard (Greece) are merely labels for many nations. "They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain."
Notice the expression, "in that day"? Is.11:10-12. He shall recover a remnant 'The second time" And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious. And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people."
Re.20:7-8 "And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,/And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, " This millennial period is between the breaking of the sixth and the seventh seal.
v.1 "Afterward he brought me again unto the door of the house." The Spirit uses Afterward with direct reference to the measuring of the holy city of God.(Re.21:15-16) We need look at this vision from the tree of life being positioned on this side of the river where the throne of God and of the Lamb is situated. (Re.22:1). This water which flows from the threshold "And, behold, waters issued out from under the threshold of the house eastward" requires explanation. Threshold is set as the line connecting the two thrones" so the pure water of life ("a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb," is implied here. Another word 'eastward' also requires help. We are looking at the nations 'the kings of the east' that includes Israel as well. Drying of the river Euphrates so "that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared" draws Israel as hostile to the saints following the Word of God. (Re.16:12; 19:14) Prophet Ezekiel refers to 'top of the mountains' ,-Zion, as a high mountain(Is.2:2). So Ez.40:2 we have this verse " set me upon a very high mountain."
vv.2-5 we have "the man that had the line" proceeding with measuring. What does 4x1000 tell us? Compare John's vision where the golden reed shows 12x100 furlongs. "And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal."(21:16) Ezekiel according to his Jewish sensitivities gives us the decalogue as base unit.
Another point we need consider is this line, "and the waters came down from under from the right side of the house" Always it holds to the rightside of the house or the throne. Consider the verse:"The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool." (Ps.110:1) The earth is designated as the footstool in relation to the Son. He is the judge.
24:1 The earth is the Lord's,and the fulness thereof; the world,and they that dwell therein. -->(Comment:Luke:4:8-9:->8The Devil taketh JESUS up into an exceeding high mountain, sheweth Him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; 9 And he said to the Lord GOD, Lord JESUS: All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.)
Yes,"The earth is the Lord's,and the fulness thereof;the world,and they that dwell therein",This is true,of course, but what the Devil said to JESUS is lie, he is the father of lie, never abode in the Truth- John 8:44.
24:2 For the Lord hath founded it upon the seas, and established it upon the floods.
3 Who shall ascend into the hill of the Lord?(Satan intends to climb the mountain of the Lord- Isaiah 14:13-15),or who shall stand in His holy place?
4 He that hath clean hands, and a pure heart; who hath not lifted up his soul unto vanity, nor sworn deceitfully.
5 He shall receive the blessing from the Lord, and righteousness from the GOD of His salvation.
6 This is the generation of them that seek Him, that seek thy face, O Jacob.Selah.
7 Lift up your heads, O ye gates, and be ye lift up, ye everlasting doors; and the King of glory shall come in.
8 Who is this King of glory? The Lord strong and mighty, the Lord mighty in battle. (in the war)
9 Lift up your heads, O ye gates; even lift them up, ye everlasting doors; and the King of glory shall come in.
10 Who is this King of glory? The Lord of hosts, He is the King of glory.Selah.
Now unto the King Eternal, Immortal, Invisible, the only wise GOD, be Honour and Glory for ever and ever. Amen.(1Ti.1:17)