As promised I would like to continue our discussion on unequally yoked with unbelievers and we "the church" being separated from the world.
We've touched on 2 Corinthians 6:14-15
When we read further down in this chapter we come to verses 17 and 18 it reads "Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
Paul is telling us to separate ourselves from the world, but to some degree Paul is only telling us what the Spirit of God has already done.
We are Unequally yoked with unbelievers in this world where lifestyles and morrows clash! Darkness and light cannot coexist.
A believer baptized with Christ spirit has a new nature that combats the old nature.
Not just outward sin but we now think different.
Listen to Paul again talking to the Corinthians in 1 Corinthians 2:14-16.
"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
Also, John 15:18-21.
Notice verse 21? "But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, BECAUSE THEY KNOW NOT HIM THAT SENT ME.
When the Holyspirit causes us to follow Christ and His teachings we're at odds with the world.
We have "separate" fathers.
God and Satan!
Satan has his ministers also. Look at Paul in his day. 2 Corinthians 11:13-15
Satan appeals to the flesh and worldly wisdom.
One thing they can't do is bare fruit! Matthew 7:15-18.
The lesson we believers must learn from the sad episode with Samson is to perceive that after falling into the hands of the enemy, the first thing the Devil does is to take away the believer's vision,and prevent may the believer continue with good vision on the path of Truth,from then to make him err the path.The enemy worked surreptitiously and insistently to enter in the spiritual environment in which Samson was,to discover the secret of the Power that GOD gave him.In fact,he walks around looking for whom he can devour. Job 1:6-There was a Day when the sons of GOD came to present themselves before the Lord,and Satan came also among them.
Satan,in his wisdom,has countless strategies and traps to climb into the heavenly regions where we believers are- Ephesians 1:3-8 and Philippians 3:20-21-and the most satanic of his strategies when he is among us is to transfigure in an angel of light-2Cor.11:14.It is extremely difficult to identify him in this"outfit".It is even possible to deceive the chosen ones.Another terrible situation for us believers,in our Christian and heavenly environment(Eph.1:3-8 combined with Revelation 12:3-4),is identifying Satan's ministers among us- 2 Corinthians 11:13&15.
With this strategy he enters the Temple where we attend the services,and he does not sit on benches like us in the Church,he sits in the pulpits of the Churches as an angel of light,the Light is the Word of GOD,and his messengers as ministers or apostles of GOD- 2Corinthians 11:13&15.GOD forbid us.Anyone who believes in their preachings runs the risk of having their eyes gouged out,as happened to Samson,and once blind the people is dragged into the darkness,into Devil's environment.
In current time,we wrestle not against flesh and blood,but against principalities,against powers,against the rulers of the darkness of this world,against spiritual wickedness in HIGH PLACES.Wherefore take unto you the whole armor of GOD,that ye may BE ABLE to withstand in this evil time and to stand.
To start; I used to have a similar understanding of the Trinity doctrine but over time it has changed, and I am still studying it. I do not consider myself part of any group or denomination other than a believer and follower of Jesus. I feel we should inspire each other to study in prayer for the truth and to be open to the Holy Spirit to unveil the truth as we know nothing.
With me, it started with two verses, 2 Corinthians 11:3-4, I contemplated these verses for a long time, it was like they stuck in my mind unanswered. In my study of the Trinity, I found out how it developed and how many deaths it caused even after the Reformation, and the questions I asked in Churches, many could not explain it and said it is a mystery that man cannot comprehend.
Is God and has He always been one solitary person?
Deut. 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD, Mark 12:29 and as said in 1 Cor. 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. My understanding is God the Father is eternal He has always been and will always be Psalms 90:2. God is Spirit, if a person means He has a will, emotions, the ability to speak, rationalize, self-awareness, to have a relationship with His creation, love, hate, etc. yes one person.
Before creation was, He always and only alone, without anyone to love?
What was before creation in Scripture we have no writings or information, Scripture tells us the hosts of heaven were before the creation of the earth and the galaxies, Job 38:4-7. How long before the physical world and universe we see we do not know. God's plan He declared the end from the beginning, Isaiah 46:9-10. I may be wrong, but God has never been alone inside Himself, time nor space cannot contain who He is, the beginning of His plan was Jesus.
I can empathize with what you shared and so well articulated. I prayed for you.
You requested prayer and might not expect or want a reply but would like to share a couple verses that come to mind.
If I were to summarize what I read it's you assume God should fix your obstacles in life and since He hasn't yet, maybe He doesn't exist, is that close?
If so, I would first ask where this believe originates from. If we use the Bible as our source for who God is and how He operates, I don't get the sense that He would do what you're expecting. Even Jesus didn't get what He wanted- remember when He cried out on the cross?
"And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" Mark 15:34 KJV
Now let's consider the #1 Christian evangelist: Paul. He faced misery and extreme hardship.
2 Corinthians 11:
25 Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned, thrice I suffered shipwreck, a night and a day I have been in the deep;
26 In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren;
27 In weariness and painfulness, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness.
But he says he's found the secret of contentment and it has nothing to do with our circumstances! How is this possible? What is the secret? Philippians 4:10-13
1 Peter 4:12-13 - this says don't be surprised when you're facing huge trials like you're facing right now. Life is a test with almost non-stop trials, in my opinion.
How hard are you currently praying for help, how hard are you seeking God, how much are you reading in His Word? Could you seek input from people in person, like a church minister, or video chat online?
There is a lot of evil in this world, fallen angels, demons, evil people, and the head honcho Satan the devil. As we see in 2 Corinthians 11:13-15 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
They make merchandise of those who fall into their deception, 2 Peter 2:3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not. They look up to heaven and see all the stars are 20-dollar bills, the love of money is so powerful, that many cannot resist.
Does God allow it? Since it is so prevalent, I am sure God has His reasons, but we do not see the result. Deuteronomy 18:20 and Matthew 18:6 and many more their punishment will be great. We are to go humbly and in prayer to the Bible with open ears and trust God through the Holy Spirit for the truth and share it in how we are led.
Their intentions only God knows, God will allow us to choose the road of this world, filled with riches but we know all the wealth of this world is filth compared to the true riches we have in Christ, that the narrow rocky road leads to. As Jesus said take heed that no man deceive you.
I thank you so much for discussing this and thank you Giannis. I am not the best at explaining my understanding.
I know John 1:1 we see it differently but what beginning makes the difference, it was the word of God in Jesus as Jesus never said it was His words but the Father's words, and God was manifested in Jesus John 1:142 Corinthians 5:19. In Colossians as well as Ephesians that is similar My understanding Paul is talking about the risen Christ as faith in Christ, redemption that is in Christ Jesus, the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus, we are children of God by faith in Christ Jesus, the risen Jesus.
I read what you replied to Momsage on this and I hope you are not considering me in the Gnostic camp. My understanding comes totally from Scripture and the Trinity doctrine is not taught anywhere in Scripture, it was hundreds of years after the deaths of the apostles, as in Matthew 28:19 is taken as the Trinity and many churches abide by this today, but nowhere in Scripture do we see anyone baptized in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost, what we see is only in the name of Jesus?
I know you will not agree but to say Jesus is God this verse stands out to me 2 Corinthians 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
God made Jesus Lord, Acts 2:36, made is thee Greek word ginomai that means to come into being, to happen, to become. This was foreordained before the foundation of the world and this Lamb was slain before the foundation of the world, 1 Peter 1:19-20Revelation 13:8, foreordained the Greek word proginosko means to know beforehand to appoint or decree beforehand.
I see too many Scriptures that do not agree with the doctrine. I hope this makes sense. This is Scripture without man's knowledge or wisdom 1 Corinthians 1:22Jeremiah 10:10 10 Malachi 2:10Mark 12:32
Paul wrote these; Romans 3:30Romans 15:61 Corinthians 8:62 Corinthians 1:32 Corinthians 11:31Ephesians 1:3Ephesians 1:17Ephesians 3:14Ephesians 4:6Colossians 1:31 Timothy 2:5
Peter wrote this; 1 Peter 1:3
These are Jesus's words Himself; Matthew 27:46 Same in Mark 15:34John 14:28John 17:3John 20:17Revelation 3:12
What this says to me, there is only one true God who is the God and Father of Jesus,
These Scriptures are clear without our wisdom or knowledge do not agree with the doctrine of the Trinity. I do thank you and again I hope you do not consider me a Gnostic that would be sad, they are more of a philosophical like the immortal soul came from Greek philosophy, I am believer and follower of Jesus our Lord and savior.
Thanks, brother, what day we choose to go to a building called a church does not matter, it's what we do after the service and every other day of the week. Many feel good that they go to a church but after going to a restaurant where people are working to serve them or go to a sporting event and think nothing about it.
If we look at Acts 15 these Gentiles received the Holy Spirit by only hearing the gospel of Jesus Christ. We overlook and complicate the simplicity that is in Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 11:3 by creeds and stipulations as Peter said in Acts 15:8-10. Whether you were Jew or Greek back then the only way they could hear the word of God was by going to a synagogue as we see in Acts 15:21. What came later was for power and control.
What we do we do unto the Lord and for our conscience's sake.
A question we should ask ourselves; Do we study it with a confirmation bias? I know I have in the past and I must fight it every time I open the Bible. It is part of our subconscious mind; confirmation bias is when we study the Bible, we look for verses to confirm our existing beliefs, without even knowing it we ignore any Bible verses that conflict with what we believe.
Our existing beliefs are deeply entrenched in our subconscious mind, and our subconscious mind blocks the true meaning unless we accept that we may be wrong and in prayer make a sincere effort to come to the Scriptures with an open mind as we know nothing, praying for the truth with open ears, that we may hear.
Like stories we have heard from childhood, only two, a male and a female of each animal and bird went into the ark with Noah, or the wise men went to the manger when Jesus was a baby. Is that the truth? We must not automatically defend our beliefs without ever really questioning them, if not, the truth becomes harder to find.
1 John 4:1, we are told to test the spirits and many other Scriptures tell us to be aware of false prophets, and false teachers, 2 Corinthians 11:13-15. It is easy to start with a doctrine, or something we have been taught, or what we believe to find Scripture that will confirm it, but is that the true meaning that God inspired the writer to write?
I read and study the KJV, but we must be honest it is a translation and if something feels wrong in our heart, we must not ignore it. Whatever version we have we must trust it is the word of God and His Spirit will give us the understanding of it and shine light on the truth, not from our mind.
We can study in two ways, exegesis, considering the context, and God's intent, and open to the truth given to us through the Holy Spirit, or eisegesis by reading into it with one's own presuppositions, ideas, or the traditions of man.
I am sorry I am not worthy to discuss the Bible with you, I have been always respectful to you. I will leave our conversations with this. 2 Corinthians 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
In love my hope for you is the best and God bless,
If salvation was to the wicked whether you accept Christ or not and we all "including the wicked" will be ce gods whether we accept Christ or not, there is no need for righteous living.
And God's display of love in offering his only begotten Son on the cross was pointless and cruel.
That is not the Gospel of Christ!
Here is who's Gospel it is.
Genesis 3:4-5.
And the SERPENT said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and YE SHALL BE AS GODS, knowing good and evil.
Isaiah 12:14
How art thou fallen from heaven, O LUCIFER, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
This origin is of Satan.
For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
2 Corinthians 11:13-15.
Also
Just because there is two opposing views on the deity of Christ.
If either side hates the other view, how is it possible join sides and to usher in this view or any other heresy to attack the Gospel and say that you are a child of God.
Christ is the CHURCH, you are either IN CHURCH (in Christ, in TRUTH) or you're not IN CHURCH, it has nothing to do with buildings made with the hands of men.
Revelation 21:22 And I saw no CHURCH therein (the Holy city): for the LORD God Almighty and the LAMB are the CHURCH .....
2 Corinthians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through subtilty, so your (carnal) minds should be corrupted FROM THE SIMPLICITY that is in Christ.
I'm with you, I believe the Bible is the inspired word of God given to us. A reason we differ, preconceived ideas are obstacles to the truth. We all grow up in cultures where we inherit certain biased beliefs, values, and attitudes from our parents, teachers, religious affiliation, peer groups, and friends. When we study the Bible unless we can clear these obstacles, and beliefs when we read our sub-conscience mind will block the true meaning with the ones we have stored in our mind.
We must empty our minds as we know nothing, take out the garbage, pray, and let the Spirit of Truth show us the true meaning of what we are studying. We must keep in mind we get milk first and then meat and it can be years between.
I also believe in one God and Father of all, who is the God and Father of Jesus, the Son of God, the Messiah/Christ.
John 20:17Romans 15:62 Corinthians 1:32 Corinthians 11:31Ephesians 1:3Ephesians 1:17Ephesians 5:20Colossians 1:31 Peter 1:31 Corinthians 8:6.
The Worldwide Ecumenical Movement demonstrates this dangerous paradigm shift among some churches today, which results in pragmatic political positioning that dilutes and dims the "Salt and Light effect of the true followers of Jesus Christ.
Sheep Without Shepherds - Again, Hosea gives us the historic parallel the will help us understand the sad spiritual state of Israel at the time of their falling away. Concerning the backsliding of the northern nation of Israel He complains, "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.
Jeremiah tells us that this is caused by the wayward spiritual leaders that have, "led them astray. He warns, "'Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture!' saith the LORD. Therefore thus saith the LORD God of Israel against the pastors that feed my people; Ye have scattered my flock, and driven them away, and have not visited them: behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings, saith the LORD.
False teachers in the end times are predicted by Jesus, by Paul, and Peter. The Letter of Jude describes in detail the characteristics of these false teachers. These apostates will use lying signs, wonders and covetousness and produce a strong deception to draw people into apostasy. Paul warned that the allurement into apostasy will come because "they will not endure sound doctrine.
Paul warns the Corinthian Church in 2 Corinthians 11:3-4 one that offers "another Jesus, another Spirit, and another gospel."
Mathew 13:24-30 gives us a clue how this is done.
Paul describes to his disciple Timothy, that they are, "Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
The obvious issue of worldly appeal in regard to music and other entertainment features; and watering down or shortening sermons to draw people in has been going on for decades now in many mainline denominations. My beef here isn't to necessary deliberate each point (such as movie or game night) to determine what is right or wrong. What I am focusing on is the purpose of such an event.
Entertainment is something which laypersons need to be cognizant of monitering; especially when there are activity directors involved. Such was the case with a particular concert event which my local church routinely has monthly. The group; to be left anonymous had some noteriety playing with secular bands; and their music also was either secular or quite worldly. Thankfully; after I left halfway through the Pastor coordinated with several others in agreement that it would no longer be represented at our church. I have also seen issues when a church decides to pay for outside entertainment rather than looking to ways they can host events with their own music; for instance. Thankfully; I have seen several good venues after that aformentioned group; where local musicians limit their touring to churches; as well as secure incomes in reputable employment outside their concert venue. Speakers also have to be watched; such was the case with another person I will also keep nameless. It turned out he had ties with a group that is into spurious teachings (again to avoid being flagged here I will just say that it is a pretty well known organization). Finally; of course the fruit in lives of people often isn't clear; a background check is needed in all cases!
We do well to heed to Paul's words; 2 Corinthians 11:6 shows how this Mega-Apostle wasn't particularly gifted in oratory.
In short; for the Lord to be active and present; one should feel uncomfortable in their flesh and in the presence of His Holiness.
I will pass on that thank you. Not familiar with this individual. But Satan does not come with a red suit and a forked tail. Be very careful to whom you listenread the Bible instead!
2 Corinthians 11:13-15
For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
Fierce opposition may be something in this country that we are not normally accustomed to but one has to ask why in light of 2 Timothy 3:12-17; John 15:18-21; 2 Corinthians 11:26 etc.
Perhaps I made this statement earlier in the Psalms discussion; but we need to distinguish between unconditional love and the fact that "enemies" still exist. Romans 5:10 and apparently 29 other verses show that indeed we all are enemies of God prior to our conversion; hence all unregenerate remain in that state.
There is something to be said for the O.T. times when the mindset was more "an eye for an eye"( Exodus 21:24). In terms of today; Christ demonstrated no personal condemnation for a particular individual; but He certainly spent chapters excoriating the Pharisees and others which caused multiple attempts at His life along the constant persecution.
Again as I stated in other Psalms regarding David's multiple hiding periods from Saul he showed respect for him by preserving his life multiple times when he could have ended it; and also he mourned over his death when the Lord finally made Saul reap what he sowed. When someone tries to kill you 21 times as Saul was said to do (not to mention other enemies of his); then we can understand a desire to see justice. Christ alluded to judgment with unbelief among the places that had seen mighty works such as Matthew 11:21 (the "woe to you" term was also used with the Pharisees).
Individual judgment to come or the fate of nations is not something we should gloss over. We as watchmen are responsible to sound the alarm ( Isaiah 52:8 and other verses in Jeremiah; etc). In evangelism warning of a national fate seems to be generally disregarded as opposed to warning individuals as to the wrath to come. I can't see studying how Christ preached that it can be ignored. We can study scripture and history to see how Isaiah and Jeremiah for instance were martyred for such messages.
The beast, the dragon and the antichrist tare Satan, it's his unholy trinity, Satan is the great imitator imitating God throughout the centuries in the the most egregious way, it's mockery. 2 Corinthians 11:14 , Revelation 20:10 , 1 Peter 5:8 , 1 John 4:1 , Revelation 13:4 ,
Babylon the great is deception, confusion, the confusion which people spread: Revelation 17:1 Come hither; I will shew to thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many peoples.
When you are a chosen vessel of GOD... Look for extreme opposition from all around... Even in the church... The enemy knows your importance... You are a serious threat to him and his people... Look out for opposition... Look up to JESUS in the middle of the storms... The Battle is already won... Quicken me Holy Spirit today to do battle the right way.... On my knees.... Amen
Does God use vessels of dishonour and nations to perform his will?
I believe so, here's a few reasons why
Romans 9:18-23.
Habakkuk 1:5-11. Behold ye among the heathen, and regard, and wonder marvellously: for I will work a work in your days, which ye will not believe, though it be told you.
For, lo, I raise up the Chaldeans, that bitter and hasty nation, which shall march through the breadth of the land, to possess the dwellingplaces that are not their's.
They are terrible and dreadful: their judgment and their dignity shall proceed of themselves.
Their horses also are swifter than the leopards, and are more fierce than the evening wolves: and their horsemen shall spread themselves, and their horsemen shall come from far; they shall fly as the eagle that hasteth to eat.
They shall come all for violence: their faces shall sup up as the east wind, and they shall gather the captivity as the sand.
And they shall scoff at the kings, and the princes shall be a scorn unto them: they shall deride every strong hold; for they shall heap dust, and take it.
Then shall his mind change, and he shall pass over, and offend, imputing this his power unto his god.
Another question asked is there such things as demon possession?
Here's what I believe and I'm not sure if it classifies as demon possession.
I believe there's ministers of Satan.
2 Corinthians 11:14-15.
These are amongst us everywhere we go and can be identified as tares. Matthew 13:36-42.
EVIL SPIRITS.
Satan is the prince of the world and he influences the flesh. the natural man. and the nations.
1 John 4:1-3.
These tares may also be seen in Jude 1:1-25.
You can't always identify these tares with their Doctrine, some of their Doctrine sounds very familiar, but what they "seem" to believe in doesn't humble them and in areas of baring fruit they seems to be lacking. This causes a closer look at their theology and you find them taking a sharp left on the path.
Does God use vessels of dishonour and nations to perform his will?
I believe so, here's a few reasons why
Romans 9:18-23.
Habakkuk 1:5-11. Behold ye among the heathen, and regard, and wonder marvellously: for I will work a work in your days, which ye will not believe, though it be told you.
For, lo, I raise up the Chaldeans, that bitter and hasty nation, which shall march through the breadth of the land, to possess the dwellingplaces that are not their's.
They are terrible and dreadful: their judgment and their dignity shall proceed of themselves.
Their horses also are swifter than the leopards, and are more fierce than the evening wolves: and their horsemen shall spread themselves, and their horsemen shall come from far; they shall fly as the eagle that hasteth to eat.
They shall come all for violence: their faces shall sup up as the east wind, and they shall gather the captivity as the sand.
And they shall scoff at the kings, and the princes shall be a scorn unto them: they shall deride every strong hold; for they shall heap dust, and take it.
Then shall his mind change, and he shall pass over, and offend, imputing this his power unto his god.
Another question asked is there such things as demon possession?
Here's what I believe and I'm not sure if it classifies as demon possession.
I believe there's ministers of Satan.
2 Corinthians 11:14-15.
These are amongst us everywhere we go and can be identified as tares. Matthew 13:36-42.
EVIL SPIRITS.
Satan is the prince of the world and he influences the flesh. the natural man. and the nations.
1 John 4:1-3.
These tares may also be seen in Jude 1:1-25.
You can't always identify these tares with their Doctrine, some of their Doctrine sounds very familiar, but what they "seem" to believe in doesn't humble them and in areas of baring fruit they seems to be lacking. This causes a closer look at their theology and you find them taking a sharp left on the path.
This is not an attempt to start a new thread on demonic spirits or evil spirits.
I just wanted to share just a few scriptures on them and why I believe they exist and are amongst us.
Their mission is to lure you away or distort the truth in DIVERSE WAYS!! ( Their Doctrine may sound a lot like yours, IF they believe the Doctrine of truth they will bare fruit. )
1 John 4:1-3.
1 John 4:4. Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than HE THAT IS IN THE WORLD.
Matthew 12:43-45.
Jude 1:4.
2 Corinthians 11:13-15. For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
Matthew 13:37-40.
Notice who planted the tares?
I believe God with his sovereignty and foreknowledge uses vessels of dishonour to accomplish his will.
Romans 9:17-23. For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
HATH NOT THE POTTER POWER OVER THE CLAY, OF THE SAME LUMP TO MAKE ONE VESSEL UNTO HONOUR, AND ANOTHER UNTO DISHONOUR?
What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the VESSELS OF WRATH FITTED TO DESTRUCTION:
And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
The Epistle/Letter to the Romans teaches the reader to obey the "powers that be" in the world.
The Apostles did not believe Jesus taught them to obey the "powers that be"; as evidenced by the fact that they disobeyed them:
Did not we straitly command you that ye should not teach in this name? and, behold, ye have filled Jerusalem with your doctrine, and intend to bring this man's blood upon us. Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men. Acts 5:28-29
It appears you are trying to marry the two gospels together; one must choose one or the other:
"...if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him." 2 Corinthians 11:4
Jesus has prophesied that he will tell all the workers of iniquity (sinners) to depart from him:
"I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity." Luke 13:27
I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance. Luke 15:7
Jesus claims there are two distinct groups of human beings:
"I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine." John 17:9
The world aka the "powers that be" aka workers of iniquity aka sinners only comprise one group.
The other group are the sheep who pray with Jesus: "thy will be done on earth" and "lead us not into temptation".
Psalm(s) 14 and 53 also speak of two distinct groups of human beings:
The "workers of iniquity" who eat up God's People as they eat up bread;
and "God's People" who are being eaten up like bread.
We don't sin with our mind and our flesh.
We have been commanded to love the LORD our God with all our heart, all our mind, all our strength, and all our soul.
He is able to keep us from sinning. He teaches us to ask him for his will.
For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
Mark 13:22
For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.
Matthew 24:24
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
2 Peter 2:1
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
Luke 6:13
And when it was day, he (Jesus) called unto him his disciples: and of them he chose twelve, whom also he named apostles;
2 Peter 2:1 - But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
When a lion roars he's seeking to divide the prey.
They're also amongst us as seen here in
Matthew 7:15. Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
2 Corinthians 11:14-15. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
CONCLUSION.
Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
FOR WE WRESTLE NOT AGAINST FLESH AND BLOOD, BUT AGAINST PRINCIPALITIES, AGAINST POWERS, AGAINST THE RULERS OF THE DARKNESS OF THIS WORLD, AGAINST SPIRITUAL WICKEDNESS IN HIGH PLACES. Eph 6:11-12.
Yes I understood the same way you do. I just wanted to ensure that we saved as many people on this site. That is why it is important to take time to explain based on the Bible. The Book of Acts is a transitional book. Luke did a magnificent job inspired by God writing the chain of events after Jesus Christ died on the cross. Peter and the rest of the Apostles concentrated on preaching to the Jews, but when they have rejected it three times Paul went to the Gentiles. But Jews and Gentiles today can be saved by the mystery of the Gospel of Paul 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. We are saved by grace through faith. We are baptized by trusting on Jesus Christ's death, burial and resurrection meaning trusting on the blood of Jesus Christ. Christ Jesus already went to the most Holiest of Holy to sprinkle His own blood as the Jews did on earth. So anybody today can be saved by that blood. Once you are saved, the mysteries are revealed by the Holy Spirit. We are the Body of Christ, the Bride of Christ, knowing Christ in you.
Colossians 1:18; Colossians 1:24-27; Ephesians 1:13; Romans 8:9-11; Ephesians 4:30; 1 Corinthians 3:16 and many more I can share. So knowing we are saved, we know the mystery of the rapture. 1 Corinthians 15:50-58; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
Revelation 3:3. We are watching and praying with thanksgiving.
We are on the last days and we want all to be saved. We are here on earth to fulfill God's purpose - To trust God and to do God's will. Nothing of anything good we do. Rejoice evermore! I am so happy to communicate with you David. Have a blessed weekend.
As promised I would like to continue our discussion on unequally yoked with unbelievers and we "the church" being separated from the world.
We've touched on 2 Corinthians 6:14-15
When we read further down in this chapter we come to verses 17 and 18 it reads "Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
Paul is telling us to separate ourselves from the world, but to some degree Paul is only telling us what the Spirit of God has already done.
We are Unequally yoked with unbelievers in this world where lifestyles and morrows clash! Darkness and light cannot coexist.
A believer baptized with Christ spirit has a new nature that combats the old nature.
Not just outward sin but we now think different.
Listen to Paul again talking to the Corinthians in 1 Corinthians 2:14-16.
"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
Also, John 15:18-21.
Notice verse 21? "But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, BECAUSE THEY KNOW NOT HIM THAT SENT ME.
When the Holyspirit causes us to follow Christ and His teachings we're at odds with the world.
We have "separate" fathers.
God and Satan!
Satan has his ministers also. Look at Paul in his day. 2 Corinthians 11:13-15
Satan appeals to the flesh and worldly wisdom.
One thing they can't do is bare fruit! Matthew 7:15-18.
They despise truth and hate the Brothern.
See 1 John 3:10-15.
Perhaps more later on a separate thread.
God bless you.
Satan,in his wisdom,has countless strategies and traps to climb into the heavenly regions where we believers are- Ephesians 1:3-8 and Philippians 3:20-21-and the most satanic of his strategies when he is among us is to transfigure in an angel of light-2Cor.11:14.It is extremely difficult to identify him in this"outfit".It is even possible to deceive the chosen ones.Another terrible situation for us believers,in our Christian and heavenly environment(Eph.1:3-8 combined with Revelation 12:3-4),is identifying Satan's ministers among us- 2 Corinthians 11:13&15.
With this strategy he enters the Temple where we attend the services,and he does not sit on benches like us in the Church,he sits in the pulpits of the Churches as an angel of light,the Light is the Word of GOD,and his messengers as ministers or apostles of GOD- 2Corinthians 11:13&15.GOD forbid us.Anyone who believes in their preachings runs the risk of having their eyes gouged out,as happened to Samson,and once blind the people is dragged into the darkness,into Devil's environment.
In current time,we wrestle not against flesh and blood,but against principalities,against powers,against the rulers of the darkness of this world,against spiritual wickedness in HIGH PLACES.Wherefore take unto you the whole armor of GOD,that ye may BE ABLE to withstand in this evil time and to stand.
Part 1 Trinity discussion
To start; I used to have a similar understanding of the Trinity doctrine but over time it has changed, and I am still studying it. I do not consider myself part of any group or denomination other than a believer and follower of Jesus. I feel we should inspire each other to study in prayer for the truth and to be open to the Holy Spirit to unveil the truth as we know nothing.
With me, it started with two verses, 2 Corinthians 11:3-4, I contemplated these verses for a long time, it was like they stuck in my mind unanswered. In my study of the Trinity, I found out how it developed and how many deaths it caused even after the Reformation, and the questions I asked in Churches, many could not explain it and said it is a mystery that man cannot comprehend.
Is God and has He always been one solitary person?
Deut. 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD, Mark 12:29 and as said in 1 Cor. 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. My understanding is God the Father is eternal He has always been and will always be Psalms 90:2. God is Spirit, if a person means He has a will, emotions, the ability to speak, rationalize, self-awareness, to have a relationship with His creation, love, hate, etc. yes one person.
Before creation was, He always and only alone, without anyone to love?
What was before creation in Scripture we have no writings or information, Scripture tells us the hosts of heaven were before the creation of the earth and the galaxies, Job 38:4-7. How long before the physical world and universe we see we do not know. God's plan He declared the end from the beginning, Isaiah 46:9-10. I may be wrong, but God has never been alone inside Himself, time nor space cannot contain who He is, the beginning of His plan was Jesus.
See part 2
I can empathize with what you shared and so well articulated. I prayed for you.
You requested prayer and might not expect or want a reply but would like to share a couple verses that come to mind.
If I were to summarize what I read it's you assume God should fix your obstacles in life and since He hasn't yet, maybe He doesn't exist, is that close?
If so, I would first ask where this believe originates from. If we use the Bible as our source for who God is and how He operates, I don't get the sense that He would do what you're expecting. Even Jesus didn't get what He wanted- remember when He cried out on the cross?
"And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" Mark 15:34 KJV
Now let's consider the #1 Christian evangelist: Paul. He faced misery and extreme hardship.
2 Corinthians 11:
25 Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned, thrice I suffered shipwreck, a night and a day I have been in the deep;
26 In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren;
27 In weariness and painfulness, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness.
But he says he's found the secret of contentment and it has nothing to do with our circumstances! How is this possible? What is the secret? Philippians 4:10-13
1 Peter 4:12-13 - this says don't be surprised when you're facing huge trials like you're facing right now. Life is a test with almost non-stop trials, in my opinion.
How hard are you currently praying for help, how hard are you seeking God, how much are you reading in His Word? Could you seek input from people in person, like a church minister, or video chat online?
There is a lot of evil in this world, fallen angels, demons, evil people, and the head honcho Satan the devil. As we see in 2 Corinthians 11:13-15 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
They make merchandise of those who fall into their deception, 2 Peter 2:3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not. They look up to heaven and see all the stars are 20-dollar bills, the love of money is so powerful, that many cannot resist.
Does God allow it? Since it is so prevalent, I am sure God has His reasons, but we do not see the result. Deuteronomy 18:20 and Matthew 18:6 and many more their punishment will be great. We are to go humbly and in prayer to the Bible with open ears and trust God through the Holy Spirit for the truth and share it in how we are led.
Their intentions only God knows, God will allow us to choose the road of this world, filled with riches but we know all the wealth of this world is filth compared to the true riches we have in Christ, that the narrow rocky road leads to. As Jesus said take heed that no man deceive you.
God bless,
RLW
Part one
I thank you so much for discussing this and thank you Giannis. I am not the best at explaining my understanding.
I know John 1:1 we see it differently but what beginning makes the difference, it was the word of God in Jesus as Jesus never said it was His words but the Father's words, and God was manifested in Jesus John 1:14 2 Corinthians 5:19. In Colossians as well as Ephesians that is similar My understanding Paul is talking about the risen Christ as faith in Christ, redemption that is in Christ Jesus, the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus, we are children of God by faith in Christ Jesus, the risen Jesus.
I read what you replied to Momsage on this and I hope you are not considering me in the Gnostic camp. My understanding comes totally from Scripture and the Trinity doctrine is not taught anywhere in Scripture, it was hundreds of years after the deaths of the apostles, as in Matthew 28:19 is taken as the Trinity and many churches abide by this today, but nowhere in Scripture do we see anyone baptized in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost, what we see is only in the name of Jesus?
I know you will not agree but to say Jesus is God this verse stands out to me 2 Corinthians 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
See part 2
Part 2
God made Jesus Lord, Acts 2:36, made is thee Greek word ginomai that means to come into being, to happen, to become. This was foreordained before the foundation of the world and this Lamb was slain before the foundation of the world, 1 Peter 1:19-20 Revelation 13:8, foreordained the Greek word proginosko means to know beforehand to appoint or decree beforehand.
I see too many Scriptures that do not agree with the doctrine. I hope this makes sense. This is Scripture without man's knowledge or wisdom 1 Corinthians 1:22 Jeremiah 10:10 10 Malachi 2:10 Mark 12:32
Paul wrote these; Romans 3:30 Romans 15:6 1 Corinthians 8:6 2 Corinthians 1:3 2 Corinthians 11:31 Ephesians 1:3 Ephesians 1:17 Ephesians 3:14 Ephesians 4:6 Colossians 1:3 1 Timothy 2:5
Peter wrote this; 1 Peter 1:3
These are Jesus's words Himself; Matthew 27:46 Same in Mark 15:34 John 14:28 John 17:3 John 20:17 Revelation 3:12
What this says to me, there is only one true God who is the God and Father of Jesus,
These Scriptures are clear without our wisdom or knowledge do not agree with the doctrine of the Trinity. I do thank you and again I hope you do not consider me a Gnostic that would be sad, they are more of a philosophical like the immortal soul came from Greek philosophy, I am believer and follower of Jesus our Lord and savior.
God bless,
RLW
"Who is weak, and I am not weak? who is offended, and I burn not?" 2 Corinthians 11:29 KJV
Paul's meditations in the churches of God.
Thanks, brother, what day we choose to go to a building called a church does not matter, it's what we do after the service and every other day of the week. Many feel good that they go to a church but after going to a restaurant where people are working to serve them or go to a sporting event and think nothing about it.
If we look at Acts 15 these Gentiles received the Holy Spirit by only hearing the gospel of Jesus Christ. We overlook and complicate the simplicity that is in Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 11:3 by creeds and stipulations as Peter said in Acts 15:8-10. Whether you were Jew or Greek back then the only way they could hear the word of God was by going to a synagogue as we see in Acts 15:21. What came later was for power and control.
What we do we do unto the Lord and for our conscience's sake.
God bless,
RLW
A question we should ask ourselves; Do we study it with a confirmation bias? I know I have in the past and I must fight it every time I open the Bible. It is part of our subconscious mind; confirmation bias is when we study the Bible, we look for verses to confirm our existing beliefs, without even knowing it we ignore any Bible verses that conflict with what we believe.
Our existing beliefs are deeply entrenched in our subconscious mind, and our subconscious mind blocks the true meaning unless we accept that we may be wrong and in prayer make a sincere effort to come to the Scriptures with an open mind as we know nothing, praying for the truth with open ears, that we may hear.
Like stories we have heard from childhood, only two, a male and a female of each animal and bird went into the ark with Noah, or the wise men went to the manger when Jesus was a baby. Is that the truth? We must not automatically defend our beliefs without ever really questioning them, if not, the truth becomes harder to find.
1 John 4:1, we are told to test the spirits and many other Scriptures tell us to be aware of false prophets, and false teachers, 2 Corinthians 11:13-15. It is easy to start with a doctrine, or something we have been taught, or what we believe to find Scripture that will confirm it, but is that the true meaning that God inspired the writer to write?
I read and study the KJV, but we must be honest it is a translation and if something feels wrong in our heart, we must not ignore it. Whatever version we have we must trust it is the word of God and His Spirit will give us the understanding of it and shine light on the truth, not from our mind.
We can study in two ways, exegesis, considering the context, and God's intent, and open to the truth given to us through the Holy Spirit, or eisegesis by reading into it with one's own presuppositions, ideas, or the traditions of man.
Just a thought for the new year. Love you guys.
God bless,
RLW
I am sorry I am not worthy to discuss the Bible with you, I have been always respectful to you. I will leave our conversations with this. 2 Corinthians 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
In love my hope for you is the best and God bless,
RLW
If salvation was to the wicked whether you accept Christ or not and we all "including the wicked" will be ce gods whether we accept Christ or not, there is no need for righteous living.
And God's display of love in offering his only begotten Son on the cross was pointless and cruel.
That is not the Gospel of Christ!
Here is who's Gospel it is.
Genesis 3:4-5.
And the SERPENT said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and YE SHALL BE AS GODS, knowing good and evil.
Isaiah 12:14
How art thou fallen from heaven, O LUCIFER, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
This origin is of Satan.
For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
2 Corinthians 11:13-15.
Also
Just because there is two opposing views on the deity of Christ.
If either side hates the other view, how is it possible join sides and to usher in this view or any other heresy to attack the Gospel and say that you are a child of God.
Blessings.
What is CHURCH doctrine?
It certainly is not what man teaches.
Christ is the CHURCH, you are either IN CHURCH (in Christ, in TRUTH) or you're not IN CHURCH, it has nothing to do with buildings made with the hands of men.
Revelation 21:22 And I saw no CHURCH therein (the Holy city): for the LORD God Almighty and the LAMB are the CHURCH .....
2 Corinthians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through subtilty, so your (carnal) minds should be corrupted FROM THE SIMPLICITY that is in Christ.
God Bless YOU!
I'm with you, I believe the Bible is the inspired word of God given to us. A reason we differ, preconceived ideas are obstacles to the truth. We all grow up in cultures where we inherit certain biased beliefs, values, and attitudes from our parents, teachers, religious affiliation, peer groups, and friends. When we study the Bible unless we can clear these obstacles, and beliefs when we read our sub-conscience mind will block the true meaning with the ones we have stored in our mind.
We must empty our minds as we know nothing, take out the garbage, pray, and let the Spirit of Truth show us the true meaning of what we are studying. We must keep in mind we get milk first and then meat and it can be years between.
I also believe in one God and Father of all, who is the God and Father of Jesus, the Son of God, the Messiah/Christ.
John 20:17 Romans 15:6 2 Corinthians 1:3 2 Corinthians 11:31 Ephesians 1:3 Ephesians 1:17 Ephesians 5:20 Colossians 1:3 1 Peter 1:3 1 Corinthians 8:6.
God bless,
RLW
Part 2.
The Worldwide Ecumenical Movement demonstrates this dangerous paradigm shift among some churches today, which results in pragmatic political positioning that dilutes and dims the "Salt and Light effect of the true followers of Jesus Christ.
Sheep Without Shepherds - Again, Hosea gives us the historic parallel the will help us understand the sad spiritual state of Israel at the time of their falling away. Concerning the backsliding of the northern nation of Israel He complains, "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.
Jeremiah tells us that this is caused by the wayward spiritual leaders that have, "led them astray. He warns, "'Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture!' saith the LORD. Therefore thus saith the LORD God of Israel against the pastors that feed my people; Ye have scattered my flock, and driven them away, and have not visited them: behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings, saith the LORD.
False teachers in the end times are predicted by Jesus, by Paul, and Peter. The Letter of Jude describes in detail the characteristics of these false teachers. These apostates will use lying signs, wonders and covetousness and produce a strong deception to draw people into apostasy. Paul warned that the allurement into apostasy will come because "they will not endure sound doctrine.
Paul warns the Corinthian Church in 2 Corinthians 11:3-4 one that offers "another Jesus, another Spirit, and another gospel."
Mathew 13:24-30 gives us a clue how this is done.
Paul describes to his disciple Timothy, that they are, "Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
These are perilous times we live in.
GB.
The obvious issue of worldly appeal in regard to music and other entertainment features; and watering down or shortening sermons to draw people in has been going on for decades now in many mainline denominations. My beef here isn't to necessary deliberate each point (such as movie or game night) to determine what is right or wrong. What I am focusing on is the purpose of such an event.
Entertainment is something which laypersons need to be cognizant of monitering; especially when there are activity directors involved. Such was the case with a particular concert event which my local church routinely has monthly. The group; to be left anonymous had some noteriety playing with secular bands; and their music also was either secular or quite worldly. Thankfully; after I left halfway through the Pastor coordinated with several others in agreement that it would no longer be represented at our church. I have also seen issues when a church decides to pay for outside entertainment rather than looking to ways they can host events with their own music; for instance. Thankfully; I have seen several good venues after that aformentioned group; where local musicians limit their touring to churches; as well as secure incomes in reputable employment outside their concert venue. Speakers also have to be watched; such was the case with another person I will also keep nameless. It turned out he had ties with a group that is into spurious teachings (again to avoid being flagged here I will just say that it is a pretty well known organization). Finally; of course the fruit in lives of people often isn't clear; a background check is needed in all cases!
We do well to heed to Paul's words; 2 Corinthians 11:6 shows how this Mega-Apostle wasn't particularly gifted in oratory.
In short; for the Lord to be active and present; one should feel uncomfortable in their flesh and in the presence of His Holiness.
Nothing else matters.
Jesus himself says he has a God and has a Father.
Ephesians 4:6 ...and Father of ALL, even Jesus.
2 Corinthians 11:31 The GOD and Father of Jesus Christ .....
Ephesians 1:3 ...the GOD and Father of Jesus Christ ...
1 Peter 1:3 ...the God and Father of Jesus Christ ..
If Jesus has a God, and Jesus is a God, then there are 2 Gods, not 1.
There One because Christ is the BODY of HIS GOD.
If Jesus was the same God, as God, he wouldn't have to turn the kingdom back to the God who gave it to him.
Psalms 22:1 My God, MY God, why has thou forsaken me ...
Mark 15:34 .... My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me.
Was Christ crying out to himself.
Did not Christ, a God, have to be raise by the Spirit of God?
Christ himself said, I of myself can do nothing .....
The words are my Father's words
If he were the same God, as his God, he could speak his on words.
We have all been deceived, just like Revelation says, by mans teachings, and it's hard to repent from those teachings and believe what God says.
God bless you.
2 Corinthians 11:13-15
For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
Fierce opposition may be something in this country that we are not normally accustomed to but one has to ask why in light of 2 Timothy 3:12-17; John 15:18-21; 2 Corinthians 11:26 etc.
Perhaps I made this statement earlier in the Psalms discussion; but we need to distinguish between unconditional love and the fact that "enemies" still exist. Romans 5:10 and apparently 29 other verses show that indeed we all are enemies of God prior to our conversion; hence all unregenerate remain in that state.
There is something to be said for the O.T. times when the mindset was more "an eye for an eye"( Exodus 21:24). In terms of today; Christ demonstrated no personal condemnation for a particular individual; but He certainly spent chapters excoriating the Pharisees and others which caused multiple attempts at His life along the constant persecution.
Again as I stated in other Psalms regarding David's multiple hiding periods from Saul he showed respect for him by preserving his life multiple times when he could have ended it; and also he mourned over his death when the Lord finally made Saul reap what he sowed. When someone tries to kill you 21 times as Saul was said to do (not to mention other enemies of his); then we can understand a desire to see justice. Christ alluded to judgment with unbelief among the places that had seen mighty works such as Matthew 11:21 (the "woe to you" term was also used with the Pharisees).
Individual judgment to come or the fate of nations is not something we should gloss over. We as watchmen are responsible to sound the alarm ( Isaiah 52:8 and other verses in Jeremiah; etc). In evangelism warning of a national fate seems to be generally disregarded as opposed to warning individuals as to the wrath to come. I can't see studying how Christ preached that it can be ignored. We can study scripture and history to see how Isaiah and Jeremiah for instance were martyred for such messages.
Let us preach truth in love.
Babylon the great is deception, confusion, the confusion which people spread: Revelation 17:1 Come hither; I will shew to thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many peoples.
2Timothy 2:3,
I believe so, here's a few reasons why
Romans 9:18-23.
Habakkuk 1:5-11. Behold ye among the heathen, and regard, and wonder marvellously: for I will work a work in your days, which ye will not believe, though it be told you.
For, lo, I raise up the Chaldeans, that bitter and hasty nation, which shall march through the breadth of the land, to possess the dwellingplaces that are not their's.
They are terrible and dreadful: their judgment and their dignity shall proceed of themselves.
Their horses also are swifter than the leopards, and are more fierce than the evening wolves: and their horsemen shall spread themselves, and their horsemen shall come from far; they shall fly as the eagle that hasteth to eat.
They shall come all for violence: their faces shall sup up as the east wind, and they shall gather the captivity as the sand.
And they shall scoff at the kings, and the princes shall be a scorn unto them: they shall deride every strong hold; for they shall heap dust, and take it.
Then shall his mind change, and he shall pass over, and offend, imputing this his power unto his god.
Another question asked is there such things as demon possession?
Here's what I believe and I'm not sure if it classifies as demon possession.
I believe there's ministers of Satan.
2 Corinthians 11:14-15.
These are amongst us everywhere we go and can be identified as tares. Matthew 13:36-42.
EVIL SPIRITS.
Satan is the prince of the world and he influences the flesh. the natural man. and the nations.
1 John 4:1-3.
These tares may also be seen in Jude 1:1-25.
You can't always identify these tares with their Doctrine, some of their Doctrine sounds very familiar, but what they "seem" to believe in doesn't humble them and in areas of baring fruit they seems to be lacking. This causes a closer look at their theology and you find them taking a sharp left on the path.
1 John 2:19.
God bless."
I believe so, here's a few reasons why
Romans 9:18-23.
Habakkuk 1:5-11. Behold ye among the heathen, and regard, and wonder marvellously: for I will work a work in your days, which ye will not believe, though it be told you.
For, lo, I raise up the Chaldeans, that bitter and hasty nation, which shall march through the breadth of the land, to possess the dwellingplaces that are not their's.
They are terrible and dreadful: their judgment and their dignity shall proceed of themselves.
Their horses also are swifter than the leopards, and are more fierce than the evening wolves: and their horsemen shall spread themselves, and their horsemen shall come from far; they shall fly as the eagle that hasteth to eat.
They shall come all for violence: their faces shall sup up as the east wind, and they shall gather the captivity as the sand.
And they shall scoff at the kings, and the princes shall be a scorn unto them: they shall deride every strong hold; for they shall heap dust, and take it.
Then shall his mind change, and he shall pass over, and offend, imputing this his power unto his god.
Another question asked is there such things as demon possession?
Here's what I believe and I'm not sure if it classifies as demon possession.
I believe there's ministers of Satan.
2 Corinthians 11:14-15.
These are amongst us everywhere we go and can be identified as tares. Matthew 13:36-42.
EVIL SPIRITS.
Satan is the prince of the world and he influences the flesh. the natural man. and the nations.
1 John 4:1-3.
These tares may also be seen in Jude 1:1-25.
You can't always identify these tares with their Doctrine, some of their Doctrine sounds very familiar, but what they "seem" to believe in doesn't humble them and in areas of baring fruit they seems to be lacking. This causes a closer look at their theology and you find them taking a sharp left on the path.
1 John 2:19.
God bless.
This is not an attempt to start a new thread on demonic spirits or evil spirits.
I just wanted to share just a few scriptures on them and why I believe they exist and are amongst us.
Their mission is to lure you away or distort the truth in DIVERSE WAYS!! ( Their Doctrine may sound a lot like yours, IF they believe the Doctrine of truth they will bare fruit. )
1 John 4:1-3.
1 John 4:4. Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than HE THAT IS IN THE WORLD.
Matthew 12:43-45.
Jude 1:4.
2 Corinthians 11:13-15. For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
Matthew 13:37-40.
Notice who planted the tares?
I believe God with his sovereignty and foreknowledge uses vessels of dishonour to accomplish his will.
Romans 9:17-23. For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
HATH NOT THE POTTER POWER OVER THE CLAY, OF THE SAME LUMP TO MAKE ONE VESSEL UNTO HONOUR, AND ANOTHER UNTO DISHONOUR?
What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the VESSELS OF WRATH FITTED TO DESTRUCTION:
And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
Also notice
Habakkuk 1:5-11.
God bless.
The Apostles did not believe Jesus taught them to obey the "powers that be"; as evidenced by the fact that they disobeyed them:
Did not we straitly command you that ye should not teach in this name? and, behold, ye have filled Jerusalem with your doctrine, and intend to bring this man's blood upon us. Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men. Acts 5:28-29
It appears you are trying to marry the two gospels together; one must choose one or the other:
"...if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him." 2 Corinthians 11:4
Jesus has prophesied that he will tell all the workers of iniquity (sinners) to depart from him:
"I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity." Luke 13:27
I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance. Luke 15:7
Jesus claims there are two distinct groups of human beings:
"I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine." John 17:9
The world aka the "powers that be" aka workers of iniquity aka sinners only comprise one group.
The other group are the sheep who pray with Jesus: "thy will be done on earth" and "lead us not into temptation".
Psalm(s) 14 and 53 also speak of two distinct groups of human beings:
The "workers of iniquity" who eat up God's People as they eat up bread;
and "God's People" who are being eaten up like bread.
We don't sin with our mind and our flesh.
We have been commanded to love the LORD our God with all our heart, all our mind, all our strength, and all our soul.
He is able to keep us from sinning. He teaches us to ask him for his will.
2 Corinthians 11:13
For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
Mark 13:22
For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.
Matthew 24:24
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
2 Peter 2:1
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
Luke 6:13
And when it was day, he (Jesus) called unto him his disciples: and of them he chose twelve, whom also he named apostles;
2 Peter 2:1 - But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
1 Peter 5:8.
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
When a lion roars he's seeking to divide the prey.
They're also amongst us as seen here in
Matthew 7:15. Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
2 Corinthians 11:14-15. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
CONCLUSION.
Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
FOR WE WRESTLE NOT AGAINST FLESH AND BLOOD, BUT AGAINST PRINCIPALITIES, AGAINST POWERS, AGAINST THE RULERS OF THE DARKNESS OF THIS WORLD, AGAINST SPIRITUAL WICKEDNESS IN HIGH PLACES. Eph 6:11-12.
Be visual.
God bless.
Yes I understood the same way you do. I just wanted to ensure that we saved as many people on this site. That is why it is important to take time to explain based on the Bible. The Book of Acts is a transitional book. Luke did a magnificent job inspired by God writing the chain of events after Jesus Christ died on the cross. Peter and the rest of the Apostles concentrated on preaching to the Jews, but when they have rejected it three times Paul went to the Gentiles. But Jews and Gentiles today can be saved by the mystery of the Gospel of Paul 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. We are saved by grace through faith. We are baptized by trusting on Jesus Christ's death, burial and resurrection meaning trusting on the blood of Jesus Christ. Christ Jesus already went to the most Holiest of Holy to sprinkle His own blood as the Jews did on earth. So anybody today can be saved by that blood. Once you are saved, the mysteries are revealed by the Holy Spirit. We are the Body of Christ, the Bride of Christ, knowing Christ in you.
Romans 16:25; Galatians 1:9-12; Galatians 2:1-14; Acts 15:11; Roman's 2:16; 1 Peter 1:10-12; 1Peter 1:18-20;
1Corinthians 4:1
Colossians 1:18; Colossians 1:24-27; Ephesians 1:13; Romans 8:9-11; Ephesians 4:30; 1 Corinthians 3:16 and many more I can share. So knowing we are saved, we know the mystery of the rapture. 1 Corinthians 15:50-58; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
Romans 9:1; 2 Corinthians 11:31; Galatians 1:20; 1 Timothy 2:7
Revelation 3:3. We are watching and praying with thanksgiving.
We are on the last days and we want all to be saved. We are here on earth to fulfill God's purpose - To trust God and to do God's will. Nothing of anything good we do. Rejoice evermore! I am so happy to communicate with you David. Have a blessed weekend.