I pray God provides the good and right resources you may need to aid you in overcoming these different matters and that God gives you peace during this time.
"Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you." 2 Corinthians 13:11 KJV
Salvation: Predestination and thinking beyond time.
My last post began to delve into the concept of how the Lord and a saved individual communicate; or perhaps better expressed "commune" with one another. We all have to beware of what is expressed in Matthew 7:23 when after a whole laundry list of things that were done "for the Lord" or "in His Name" Jesus states "I never KNEW you" before they are cast into damnation.
Obviously in a marriage situation there is a close analogy; two people don't get to know each other intimately without there being a unity; in that case of "one flesh".
I have probably delved into the concept another time of the fact that our salvation was determined before the foundation of the earth (see Rev. 13:8). In the practical understanding we have of our mortal existence on earth we see a time and place when our salvation occurred; perhaps more precisely stated as its activation. I have no doubt that those who through God's foreknowledge WOULD come to faith are guaranteed to live until that moment of confession and contrition ( Romans 10:9).
This can be proven more or less by the usual scenario; people who witness to us and circumstances that occur that trigger our interest in "spiritual" matters. Or; we could say simply that as God determined where and when we would be born; which parents; etc. certainly He also determines those details when someone is "Born Again".
Because assurance of salvation is something we all need to consider in light of 2 Corinthians 13:5 and other passages such as Phillippians 2:12 where we are to "work out our salvation with fear and trembling" we need to be cautious of our own profession of faith and that of others. We can't use the "grace card" to sidestep obedience to the Lord to His commandments. 1 John 5:3 states that His commands aren't "burdensome" much as would be the case if we tried to follow all the details of the Old Testament law. Christ shows that true worship is from the heart.
Romans 2:9 states: There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile..
(NIV); but says tribulation and anguish in the KJV. There is another verse stating that judgment begins at the house of God. ( 1 Peter 4:17).
Just as not all Israel is Israel ( Romans 9:6); not all the "professing" church is the possessing church; that is possessing the Holy Spirit and true salvation. Jesus made that perfectly clear to those who thought because they were the physical descendants of Abraham that gave them some sort of benefit were sadly mistaken ( John 8:39-44). Those who had seen Christ; knew the prophecies about the Messiah and yet rejected Him would in fact be worse off than Sodom and Gomorrah in their punishment. ( Matt. 11:21-24). We see similar warnings for those who have knowledge of the truth and become reprobate; in that it would be better not to have known it in the first place ( 2 Peter 2:21).
Testing ourselves to see if we are in the faith is sadly lacking today among professing believers; or we would see a reality check in the fruits of many lives. ( 2 Corinthians 13:5). We can glibly see this example as a carnal bunch of people and think that being steeped in our own religious training or theology that we are automatically exempt from this test. I have said before that there are dangers in any extreme that is lacking the balancing attribute; such as with loving people and warning them of judgment to come ( John 16:8). We see in the Ephesian church everything being done properly but their first love somehow becoming distant in their hearts. Look at 1 Corinthians 13:6; love rejoices in the truth. The basic fact that man's heart is desperately wicked ( Jeremiah 17:9) and that our sin makes us enemies of God ( James 4:4) means that there is a wall between opposing parties and yes God is angry with the wicked (i.e. us) every day. ( Psalm 7:11). Having our heads in the sand doesn't help anyone.
It is said by Catholics that marriage is a sacrament that is only necessitated by the vow a man makes with a woman; and I agree with that view despite disagreeing with many other things in their belief system. The idea of a minister to oversee the event from what I can tell helps to involve two or three witnesses (usually along with parents) such as 2 Corinthians 13:1 states. There are other verses as well; none directly discuss a marriage or any other vow; but it does apply in the fact that should one or more parties violate the covenant church discipline can be used against them. I am not sure how things are in the big picture but it seems whenever marriages do occur it is often in another church that the family prefers and many times there is little sense of a whole congregation being involved at least like they used to in the past. Maybe I am off somewhat but that's how I see it.
Good counsel is helpful in that respect however; if anything to keep a healthy balance of older women guiding the youth and allowing for good interactions and support. This is something more favorable it seems today in the Reformed churches from my experiences. Such interactions of a church being a family of course should extend to foreign missionaries that are affiliated with a denomination. It is a shame when we think of missionaries being "out there" and we detach ourselves emotionally when we give financial support. Their marriages and family are components of their witness as much as their evangelism and one can't be separated from the other; although of course some are single individuals on the mission field.
Again; it is sad to say that from my viewpoint there is a tolerance for remarriage in these same sort of congregations (although many won't perform them). I would say that existing marriages have greater chance of longevity and less for divorce in the Reformed circles than others who have 50 percent divorce rates as all of society if they marry at all.
When we are truly born again it is an unnatural birth taken place.
We are born of God's Spirit. We are Identified with Christ along with other believers.
This is commonly known as the baptism of the Holyspirit.
That same Spirit seals us until the day of redemption. Ephesians 4:30.
When we are born of God's Spirit we may grieve him but our great shepherd never let his sheep stray without seeking and finding him.
Jesus said in John 10:27-29 'My sheep hear my voice, AND I KNOW THEM, and they follow me:
And I GIVE UNTO THEM ETERNAL LIFE; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
( That eternal life starts now.) Jesus says he "KNOW" his sheep.
He could never turn around and say I NEVER KNEW YOU, or you've slipped out of our hands.
We are asked to examine ourselves to see if we are truly in the faith. 2 Corinthians 13:5. because there's a chance we have been manifest that we were not. 1 John 2:19 "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
I will pray for your son.
Bad things happens to us all, including our Lord and his Apostles.
To know Christ and to make Him known is the theme of the Navigators ministry and correlates with 1 John and other passages.
This is a good summary of understanding the personal meaning of Christ's sacrifice on the cross for atonement as well as our duties fulfilling our part in the Great Commission.
I imagine most here know the necessary doctrines of believing Christ is a member of the Godhead and thus Divinity Himself who was the only one who could atone for sins (as the sinless spotless Lamb of God) by becoming a man as we are without sin and remaining so throughout His earthly ministry; then dying on the cross and resurrecting from the dead 3 days later. Finally; He is to return once again physically to rule and reign on the earth.
2 Timothy 2:8 and 2 Thessalonians 2:2 show we should avoid the error of stating that the resurrection has already occurred or the day of the Lord is at hand. Matthew 24:26 states that the Lord hasn't come yet for those who say He is hiding somewhere and also states the likeness of His arrival as lightning in the very next verse. This should be enough to disclaim what Preterists state that the Lord has already come. Therefore I would contend that full Preterists that state this are far enough off in doctrine that we should avoid fellowship with them.
Assuming we have the essentials of salvation straightened out; there are many other warnings and admonitions in scripture such as testing ourselves to see if we are in the faith would involve ( 2 Corinthians 13:5). We need to accept that doctrines aren't just what is required to be saved; but also what is necessary to prove that we are bringing fruits worthy of repentance ( Matthew 3:8 and many other similar verses). We are not subject to the law in some sense IF we are truly dead to sin ( Romans 6:11) in one sense; because we have a new nature; but in the same token we DESIRE to obey Christ and love and serve Him as Lord; Master and Savior.
Part 5. J Vernon Mcgee. (Paul and James View Justification.)
Therefore, we see that when Paul uses the term justification he is talking about a man's relationship with God; when James uses the same term, he is talking about a man's relationship with the world. One is perpendicular, and the other is horizontal.
Paul and James View Faith.
The same procedure runs true in their use of the term faith. Again, they mean something different. When Paul talks of faith he is talking about that which is toward God. Paul says that saving faith - a faith that is genuine and real - will transform a person's life. Paul said of himself,
But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. ( Philippians 3:7)
A real revolution took place in his life when he came to Christ. Looking again at Galatians 3:6, we read that "as Abraham believed Godit was accounted to him for righteousness." And then in Romans:
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. ( Romans 4:5)
Paul is speaking here of that which we bring to God. The only thing that a sinner can bring to God is faith in Jesus Christ. When James writes about this, he is not talking about faith toward God but about the works of faith. So Paul is talking about the root of faith, and James is talking about the fruit of faith, but they are both defending the citadel of faith.
Here in James 2:14.
James is not talking about the works of the Law. The faith that James is talking about here is professing faith, that which is phony and counterfeit. Paul refers to the same idea when he says in 1 Corinthians 15:2, "unless ye have believed in vain." Paul also wrote, "Examine yourselves, whether you are in the faith" ( 2 Corinthians 13:5). James simply says that the faith which saves you will produce works-"works of faith.
John 10:34- seems to be a popular verse here. People want to believe they are a god, is that what's happening here? That would be a gross misinterpretation. You know this is a quote with a question mark at the end, right? Let's be honest about it. Here's the commentary for that:
Christ's argument is: If your law calls judges gods, why should I be held guilty of blasphemy for saying that I am the Son of God?
As per the other argument trying to discredit the word "one" sounds like your argument is that one doesn't really mean one, because Jesus used it to describe believers being one. I don't see how being one in unity as Christ's body somehow means that all the Bible verses about Jesus being God and divine suddenly don't apply? The verse about the Father and Son being one is only one of MANY verses competing the picture. The Bible already says Jesus the Word is God so how can you disregard that?
God: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:1 KJV
You: Word was "NOT" God?
"Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also." John 8:19 KJV
Have you thought about how your belief reconciles with verses like this above?
Isaiah 7:14 -
Yes, Jesus is called Immanuel which means "God with us". People called Jesus "God". He's King of King and Lord of Lords. Alpha and Omega, first and last. Do you believe Jesus is Lord? I believe that is a requirement for even being a Christian. A Christ follower should know who Christ is.
1 John 5:7-8
John 10:30
John 8:19
Genesis 1:26
Genesis 11:6-7 (plural "us" which includes Jesus, as per John 1:1)
"Hello brother Spencer, Good evening! Thinking of doctrine, the Church practice of
giving and taking reproof by love maybe is part of what you are thinking? Church discipline and restoration?
God bless the walk.
Brother Carleton, That I absolutely agree with! However, that is not in the context of this message.
This message is more in line with Jude 1:3-4 with the focus on what is mentioned in verse 4 "For there are certain men crept in unawares,"
This has the thought of some has come into the fold sort of like through a back door.
Jude 1:10-15. He describes them. They are not Brothern. They are not Sheep.
As for "A Holy kiss.
Does the bible say greet "them" with a Holy kiss? No, I don't think so.
Romans 10:8-10 says the words is ni thy mouth.
These words is what we can confess to others if asked by what means are you saved.
However, what about the guy whom from his heart "by his mouth" speaks against truth?
We don't judge his present spiritual condition; he's done it ALREADY by refusing to believe and enter in the straight and narrow gate. See Matthew 7:13-15. and John 3:18.
What do these verses concerning a Holy kiss have in common? This Holy kiss is for the Brothern.
1 Corinthians 16:20.
2 Corinthians 13:11-12.
1 Thessalonians 5:26.
Romans 16:16.
The Holy kiss wasn't only meant to express love for the Brothern.
The Holy kiss is meant to express acceptance especially at a time when Gentiles was coming into the fold.
It certainly wasn't for non-believers.
Look at 2 John1:10. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed.
Also see Romans 16:17-18.
Does open rebuke harm a brother?
Open rebuke is better than secret love.
Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful. Proverbs 27:5-6.
You came to my mind while I was on my way home from errands an hour or so ago. And then the thought "Encourage" came into my mind.
I do pray daily for those on this site, but this prompting is not a common experience for me. So, I will encourage you and others on here with these words from Scripture.
The Aaronic Blessing in Numbers 6:24-26
"The Lord bless thee and keep thee; The Lord make His face shine upon thee, and be gracious to thee; The Lord lift up His countenance upon thee, and give thee peace."
AND
Paul's Blessing in Ephesians 6:23-24
"Peace be to the brethren, and the love of faith, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. Grace be with all them that love our Lord Jesus Christ in sincerity."
AND to close,
Paul's Blessing in 2 Corinthians 13:14
"The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen"
2 Peter 1:20 No PROPHECY of the scripture is (in and of itself it's) OWN private interpretation.
2 Corinthians 13:1 ...in the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established .....
Genesis 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, ye shall surely not DIE:
Genesis 3:5 FOR GOD DOTH KNOW that in the day you thereof, then your EYES SHALL BE OPENED, and ye shall be as gods, KNOWING GOOD and EVIL.
This is ALL PROPHECY.
Genesis 3:22 And the Lord God SAID, Behold, the man HAS BECOME AS ONE OF US, to KNOW good and evil.....
The FRUIT was KNOWLEDGE of good and evil, the KNOWLEDGE of gods.
John 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not WRITTEN in your LAW, ye are gods
John 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the WORD the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken.
Psalms 82:6
Deuteronomy 10:17 your God is a God of gods, and Lord of Lords ....
Psalms 136:6 Give thanks unto the God of gods, for his mercy endureth for ever.
Now, Eve was a prophecy of the coming bride of Christ by HIS RESURRECTION, and what happened she was resurrected with her husband to never DIE.
The gift of God is eternal life.
God can even use Satan to speak prophecy, what did Satan say, Ye shall never DIE.
Luke 20:36 Neither can THEY DIE ANYMORE, Adam (Christ) took of the fruit and did eat with his wife and Christ and his wife (creation) DIED, and the spirit of the Father RAISED them as ONE FLESH), for they are equal unto the angels, and are the children of God, being the CHILDREN of the RESURRECTION.
Philippians 2:5 Let this MIND BE IN YOU, which also was in Christ Jesus:
Philippians 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, though it not robbery to be equal with God.
It doesn't drag me down, but does concern me when unbelievers stumble into these churches which have become so carnal that the unbeliever doesn't see much difference between the Christian and regular unbelievers. The bible the very WORDS OF GOD says this and that and they witness it being IGNORED or explained away since it was inconvenient to follow.
I am just a voice crying out in the wilderness... A conscience if you will. Letting people know to prepare for judgment. For it will start in the house of God. A lot of people in the Church "think they are saved." So great is Satan's power of deception that the tares truly suppose themselves to be Children of the kingdom!
Paul urges all those claiming to be spiritually saved to "examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves"
2 Corinthians 13:5 (KJV) 5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
[[[When we abide in the Christian doctrine, we give PROOF of the REALITY of our faith.]]] So it makes me really question the salvation of these Western Christian women who don't submit to their husbands, and the majority honestly probably don't."
I can't tell you the enormous amounts of pushback I get from both "Christian" men and women on Ephesians 5 and even more pushback on 1 Corinthians 11 "head coverings during corporate worship whenever I bring it up.
Usually, the go-to scripture for these feminist Christians is Galatians 3:28.
Paul urges all those claiming to be spiritually saved to "examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; TEST yourselves."
2 Corinthians 13:5 (KJV) Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
You seem to have an unrepentant nature. That doesn't address what you wrote. Instead of admitting it and asking for forgiveness you press on. In NO WAY shape or form is the Christian HUSBAND the WIFE of CHRIST in any regard.
>The word of God cuts both ways, a two edged sword.
>How many husbands love their wives as CHRIST loves the church ..... probably NONE.
>The word says you are the WIFE of Christ, so these scripture of a wife submitting to her HUSBAND apply as much to you as to any earthly wife.
Paul urges all those claiming to be spiritually saved to "examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves"
2 Corinthians 13:5 (KJV) 5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
Then it was nonsensical to bring it even up to help support your original position regarding wives submitting to their husbands. If he wasn't saved then it doesn't even apply to the subject at hand. It was presented as he was saved and beating his wife in a sense impugning the notion of Christian wives submitting to husbands. Then you brought up another exception a husband commanding his wife to sin. Again a true man of God is not going to do any of these things.
I'm also always amazed by the amount of pushback this topic gets from both men and women in Christendom...
Paul urges all those claiming to be spiritually saved to "examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves" 2 Corinthians 13:5 (KJV) 5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
Women always like to bring up the exceptions. In those examples that you brought up the man isn't even a real Christian, because a true Christian who has been redeemed by the Holy Spirit would not do such. When we abide in the Christian doctrine, we give proof of the reality of our faith. Ye will know them by their fruit Matthew 7:15-20
What I find shocking is that you don't realize that.
I'm also always amazed by the amount of pushback this topic gets from both men and women in Christendom...
Paul urges all those claiming to be spiritually saved to "examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves" 2 Corinthians 13:5 (KJV) 5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
You have made some good observations here. Now to me it seems like some of that may be explained by the wheat and the tares, key note [bracketed] for emphases below. The wheat of God at once becomes the scene of Satan's activity. Where children of the kingdom are gathered, there "among the wheat"
Satan "sows" "children of the wicked one," who profess to be children of the kingdom, and in outward ways are so like the true children that only the angels may, in the end, be trusted to separate them. [[[[[[So great is Satan's power of deception that the tares often really suppose themselves to be children of the kingdom.]]]]]] Many other parables and exhortations have this mingled condition in view.
Children of the wicked one are always religious unbelievers, mere pagan / nonbelievers are never so-called.
Paul urges all those claiming to be spiritually saved to "examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves" 2 Corinthians 13:5 (KJV) 5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
What about the Western Christian women who do not submit to their Christian husbands and we know probably most of them don't?
What about the total disregard for Head Coverings I just posted on that.
Post-baptismal sin is covered under the blood for sins which we REPENT from not living IN as a way or walk of life and never really turn away from. What is true "repentance" it is like a burning house you never go back to it!
I liken this to two ships anchored at port. One ship is grounded in the Word and will not move from the harbor by the ebb and flow of the ocean. The second ship anchor is eroded due to continued sin as it continues to drift away from the harbor EVENTUALLY it finds itself lost in the middle of the ocean with no clue how to get back--- apostasy
The discussion I am about to embark on is of a matter of grave importance and it is with much conviction and sorrow that I pursue it. I am ever mindful of the fear of the Lord and the trepidation of getting it wrong that I begin this series.
I have somewhere in my stash of Bibles a Dake's Bible that the Lord providentially had someone leave on top of a cardboard compactor in the back of a store I worked with (it had a very common name on it and after a brief search I didn't pursue it; no one in the store knew who left it some 25 years ago). My point is that there are HUNDREDS of scriptures which the author uses to prove that one indeed CAN lose their salvation. Ultimately, I do NOT believe you can lose something which God provides and seals with His Spirit ( Eph. 1:13-14).
Having said that we cannot ignore the plethora of scriptures in both Testaments that show men of God who the Spirit was at work with at times that appeared in the end to be lost spiritually. A chief example is Saul in the Old Testament. I have tackled this subject before but wish to dive into more scripture at this time for several reasons. I have mentioned that it is the fruit of the Spirit that must be an evidence of the new life within; behaviors that only show bad fruit are at best someone who remains carnal in many ways and at worst someone who remains lost and has some other motivation other than desiring to worship a Holy God and live a life of holiness to love and obey. 2 Corinthians 13:5 demonstrates to that church who were immature in many ways something we all need to do. A "reality check" is something which others even in the world can challenge us with if we live contradictory to what we profess; and of course ultimately there has to be a battle between the flesh and Spirit with a true child of God. True believers sense when they are "grieving the Spirit" ( Eph. 4:30-31); which can only happen if the Spirit is in us to begin with.
To Alex7 - you continue to maintain that "...the good seed is the WHEAT" despite Jesus Christ's own words contradicting what you claim, as stated below:
"Now the parable is this: THE SEED IS THE WORD OF GOD." ( Luke 8:11)
Another scripture verse is this that confirms that the word of God represents "seed" and in fact "incorruptible seed":
"Being born again, NOT OF CORRUPTIBLE SEED, but of INCORRUPTIBLE [seed], by THE WORD OF GOD, which liveth and abideth for ever." ( 1 Peter 1:23)
So, my dilemma is do I believe you - who (presumably) is a 'man' who has NOT died and has NOT risen from the dead and has NOT ascended in Heaven - OR, do I believe the words in the Bible spoken by Jesus Christ Himself - supported by the Apostle Peters words also thereby making TWO WITNESSES that agree:
"...In the mouth of two or three witnesses [Jesus and Peter] shall every word be established." ( 2 Corinthians 13:1)
If I was to believe what you wrote, I would then have to say that Jesus Christ is a liar. I couldn't do that.
Given that Jesus Christ has both died, risen from the dead and ascended into heaven according to the scriptures and as both He and the Apostle Peter have affirmed that "THE [incorruptible] SEED IS THE WORD OF GOD", I have to reject your false claims.
Previously; the concept has been introduced as to evidence of good or bad fruit as indicators of true or false salvation in earlier posts. The idea of self; somehow being able to adequately perform the behaviors such as illustrated in the Beatitudes on the Sermon on the Mount (i.e. be a peacemaker; meek; etc) basically demonstrates humanism in some form. I also mentioned the idea of "decisional regeneration". Often; there isn't much thought once we have "fire insurance" as it were; of such verses as 2 Corinthians 13:5 in testing ourselves to see if we are; indeed in the faith. Iron sharpening iron ( Prov. 27:17) is a way that God often uses to chastise us; which He does with all who are truly in the faith. We also should examine carefully the entire message of scripture; in this case the Beatitudes. Here it DEFINES who the meek are; those who are "despitefully used; wrongfully accused and otherwise abused" (my own rhyme giving the gist of the scripture). In the flesh we may put up with this; but expect someone to pity us; unlike what Jesus went through in Isaiah 53. To die for a friend is one thing; but for enemies is something else ( Romans 5:7-8).
The opposite also holds true; people somehow read the Gospels and think that Christ was all about bringing people together; peace and harmony. The unregenerate mind glosses over Matthew 10:34; 10:36; and the 10 times they tried to kill Jesus by various methods such as stoning and throwing him off a cliff BEFORE the cross. The last case was when Lazarus was raised from the dead when he along with Christ were in the final failed attempt at assassination. The world of course has trouble understanding the need for a bloody cross; of the fact that ALL of us are guilty for His death (at least the elect). Ultimately; to believe Christ is God (part of a triune God) has to be given by God ( Matt. 16:17).
Without God we can do nothing ( John 15:5). See also Hebrews 11:6.
It's great to see you back. I hope you had a wonderful vacation. And yes, I agree with what you're saying. There is so much packed into that one verse ( 2 Corinthians 13:5).
Knowing that faith literally means persuasion, if I am to examine myself, the question I must answer is whose persuasion am I under? Do I have Christ (His Spirit) in me? If so, I belong to Him. And Paul says in Romans 8:14 that those who belong to Christ are being led by the Spirit of Christ. Factual statement!
My understanding is that in the early church, if there was a test given or an examination as to whether somebody is saved or not, there is only one criteria. Examine yourselves and test yourselves, whether Christ is in you, literally His Spirit.
The very next verse is interesting. Paul says in 2 Corinthians 13:6, "But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates."
In fact, they are the proof that Christ was in Paul, because Christ spoke through him to them. They got saved and were growing in Christ through Paul's ministry.
So we need to examine ourselves. Whose persuasion are we under? Are we we being persuaded by Christ in us? If so, would His Spirit in us persuade us to walk away? Or are we under a different persuasion?
Again, it is great to see you back. May the Lord continue to bless you and your family abundantly in Christ Jesus!
Thanks brother Jesse for the great & important Truth that you have shared here: Salvation is all of God: He draws, He saves, He gives new birth, He secures, & He gives the sure Hope in this life & into eternity. I reflected on your reference to 2 Corinthians 13:5: "Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?"
This I believe was the position & concern of each of the NT writers, not just in calling out evident sin in the Church, but for each one to examine themselves whether they were even in the Faith. In some cases this was clear (as in 1 John 2:18,19), and in others such as Hebrews 3:12-14: "Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end", a little unclear. The message here was for each one to encourage & counsel those being led astray by sin or deception, that they might turn back to holy living & not face the Lord's Discipline. But if they persisted, not holding their "confidence stedfast unto the end", it only showed that "they were not all of us", only displaying a show of godliness & religious experience, but inwardly knowing their deceitfulness & hypocrisy.
The Word is abundantly clear that the believer could never acquire or sustain his salvation by his efforts, rather, by the working of the Holy Spirit indwelling him ( Titus 3:4-7; Romans 8:9; Galatians 5:24,25). Unfortunately, alongwith the oft preached Gospel of salvation, i.e. 'from God & sustained by man', comes the rarely heard messages of 'life & power given to believers to know, to pursue & enjoy, which comes from the indwelling Spirit'.
It was nice to read your literal renderings of the verses you shared.
In the early Church, the requirement for salvation was the presence of God's Spirit dwelling within a person. Paul instructed, in Romans 8:9, "Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, this one is not of Him." In Romans 8:14, he wrote, "For as many as are being led by the Spirit of God, these are the sons of God."
And again, in Romans 8:16, he instructs that "The Spirit itself bears witness with our spirit, that we are children of God." Also, in 2 Corinthians 13:5, Paul challenged the church at Corinth: "Examine yourselves, if you are in the faith; prove your own selves, or do you not know your own selves, that Jesus Christ is in you, except you are reprobates?"
John, writing in 1 John 3:24 supported this same understanding: "And in this we know that He abides in us, from the Spirit whom He has given to us." He repeats this same truth, although worded somewhat differently, in 1 John 4:13, "In this we know that we dwell in Him, and He in us, because He has given to us of His Spirit."
From the preceding scriptures, we see that salvation happens only when God's Spirit enters and remains in a person's spirit, thereby causing spiritual birth. Nothing in the Bible teaches that salvation is accomplished by the repetition of the Sinner's Prayer or through the performance of any other kind of human formula.
In addition to teaching that God is the sole source of salvation, the Bible also teaches that every saved person is kept by the power of God. Peter writes, in 1 Peter 1:5, that believers are, "The ones who are being kept in the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time."
Galatians 3:7 certainly could be an answer to your question. It isn't merely the physical descendants of Abraham who are true children of God ( Romans 9:7-10). God has a remnant that He saves from both the Old and New Dispensations ( 1 Kings 19); Matthew 7:21).
Keep in mind also the difference between physically being preserved for a time and spiritual deliverance. These are both realities for the children of God in reverse order. In New Testament times as with Old many are called but few chosen ( Matt. 22:14). There are other verses showing how some experience some of the benefits of being in God's presence ( Hebrews 6:4) are still not ultimately saved. The parable of the sower and the seed illustrate this fact showing how the seed of truth must eventually not only take root but produce fruit. God enables that His Spirit reproduces good fruit in our lives as evidence that it is indwelling; not merely an external event. Hence all true believers are "sealed" until the Day of Redemption ( Ephesians 4:30).
In God's Providence there are some; such as the 1/3 that are preserved "going through the fire" ( Zechariah 13:9) who appear to make it physically through the Tribulation to repopulate the earth in the Millennium. That will include the handful of Gentiles that make it; although man is said in general to be "rarer than the gold of Ophir" who makes it through that way ( Isaiah 13:12).
Thus; these verses and a multitude of others makes it imperative that we "test ourselves to see if we are in the faith". ( 2 Corinthians 13:5). I personally believe that through God's sanctification process we all must get beyond our initial excitement over being a new believer as well as the trials of persecution AND temptations of the world to be "tested and approved" as true believers as part of the process of chastisement as God's adopted children. ( Romans 12:2; etc). The end of all those called and chosen in Him is glorification (read all of Romans 8:30).
2. 2 Corinthians 13:5. "Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith..." This verse should be a warning given after any profession of faith. Warnings need to be associated with that in regard to producing good fruit ( Gal. 5:22-23). We of course don't want to present a "hyper-grace" type message in any form that we are now free to sin since grace "abounds" as stated in Romans 5:20 and subsequent verses. Here are several things one should look for after a genuine salvation experience and are evidences of SANCTIFICATION; the next stage in the process leading to GLORIFICATION. Romans 8:17; however talks about part of the necessary process "provided we suffer for Him."... This is not to suggest that we are all going to be martyred; but it DOES assume that we are crucified with Christ ( Galatians 2:20) and our life is now in Him. This means a death to our PRIDE; which of course is based on a whole bunch of subpoints (materialism; self grorification; esteem; reputation; status; etc.)
There used to be a song by Amy Grant "you've got to count the cost if you want to be a believer." as one of the lyrics. I could say more here; but I will leave it at this: such advice is sorely needed today if someone seeks God; and we must live it out ourselves.
3. Warnings of specific things the enemy is likely to place in your path to make you fall. I don't know how I could write this without reference to a primary target Satan is going after; namely marriages and family. If such things as personal vows taken in God's name (such as a marriage Covenant) are NOT taken as being DEADLY serious; then we can certainly understand why the confessing church has about 50 percent divorce rate par with the rest of the "pagan" world. I cannot understand how a covenant with God where the specific vow "until death do us part" can be violated. I don't wish to be flagged for the debate here on the "escape clause" in 2 places in Matthew
Hello Peggy. You could look up the following Scriptures on Jesus Christ's Deity (i.e. God's fullness found in Jesus ( Colossians 2:9) & in His Holy Spirit). Jesus' Deity is proved by:
a. His Names: Hebrews 1:8, John 20:28 (God); Matthew 16:16, Matthew 26:61-65 (the Son of God); Matthew 22:41-46 (Lord); Revelation 19:13 (Word of God); Revelation 19:16 (King of kings and Lord of lords).
b. His Characteristics: Matthew 28:18 (Omnipotence: all powerful); Luke 6:8, John 2:24,25, John 13:11 (Omniscience: all knowing); Matthew 18:20 (Omnipresence: present in any place); John 1:4 (Life); John 14:6 (Truth); Hebrews 13:8 (Immutability: unchanging); 1 Timothy 3:16, John 1:1-14 (God manifest in the flesh in Jesus).
c. His Works: John 1:3, Colossians 1:16 (creates); Colossians 1:17 (sustains); Luke 7:48,49 (forgives sin); John 11:41-44 (raises the dead); John 5:27 (judges); John 15:26 (sends the Holy Spirit).
d. His receiving Worship: Hebrews 1:6 (from angels); Revelation 5:11-13 (from other heavenly beings); Matthew 14:33 (from men); Philippians 2:10 (from all).
e. His equality within the Triune God: John 14:23, John 10:30-33 (with the Father); Matthew 28:19, 2 Corinthians 13:14 (with the Father and the Spirit).
I hope you can see from these few Scriptures that Jesus was not just a special Man or Prophet sent by God, but truly was "God manifested in the flesh". No other man before Jesus' coming, during, or after His leaving this Earth, could ever fully reflect God's Glory, Wisdom & Power. Only God could - and He did this by sending us His Word, made Him a Man, so that He could give His Life as full payment for our sins - but only to those who believe this & place their trust in Him. To some, the 'Trinity' teaching is abominable. But man's salvation depends on the Divine Person of the Lord Jesus Christ - that God could accept no other Sacrifice to redeem & secure people to Himself - only by giving fully of Himself, which is true love for all.
Principle 3 (cont). I would say that there are verses showing validity of either argument (i.e. all believers are taken out at the Rapture) OR that some may be left behind whose garments are soiled as shown in Revelation 3:4 to be made purified. I have discussed this in more depth in my Revelation commentaries. We certainly do well to "test ourselves to see if we are in the faith" ( 2 Corinthians 13:5) in either event. Revelation 3:11 shows how we may forfeit our rewards at least; and 1 Corinthians 13:12-13 show how we may suffer loss if that happens. I would venture to say that the lack of discussion of the Bema Seat and a lackadaisical attitude in general to considering being in His Presence characterizes todays church in a large part. Naturally; with this attitude hearts become calloused ( Matthew 24:12); and we are also not urgent about fulfilling the Great Commission. The political correctness of today has infiltrated a church already defining doctrinal standards on a much broader road than the straight and narrow delineated by the scriptures. Such events were of course warned about by both Paul and Peter who agonized in prayer over what they knew would come after their demise ( Acts 20:29-31); 2 Peter 2:1).
In short; my point here is that none us should take for granted that we are saved without evidence of fruit; and none of us should rest on our laurels so to speak trusting that we will be raptured out of here. The same idea applies; we are free from our old nature but not free to imbibe once again in the world following our old sin nature. If the Kingdom of heaven isn't within our souls now it certainly won't be later. Whatever is the case with the Rapture itself there is certainly enough wisdom to go around to escape certain events beforehand that can be avoided if we are focusing on being seated in heavenly places ( Ephesians 2:6).
That's all true Adam, we've redefining holiness and worship, and excused disobedience.
This will cause many to be deceived. Matthew 7:22-23. says "MANY".
That should cause us to examine ourselves to see if we are in the faith.
I like the way Paul put it in
2 Corinthians 13:5. You notice whereit says "how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?"
( He's saying IF Christ is in you you WILL perform a certain way.)
2 Corinthians 3:3-5 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, BUT WITH THE SPIRIT OF THE LIVING GOD;
( not in tables of stone,) BUT IN FLESHY TABLES OF THE HEART.
And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; BUT OUR SUFFICIENCY IS OF GOD;
God Lords over our hearts. Him IN us is manifested in our walk.
I believe that is what the Lord is saying in this rhetorical question in Luke 6:46 "And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?"
If he is your Lord he put his spirit inside you to perform his will!
We've been sanctified Positionally.
( Given an atonement).
We are being sanctified practically.
(Growing in grace and quickened by the Spirit. ) This is our walk.
Worship is in truth and in spirit. It's not a hobby!
When we're passing out God's word we're not going to be correct all the time but we should hold it dear to our heart and be cautious to not treat it like a conversation at a round table.
Neither will we find our walk perfect but the desire to be perfect should be there.
There has to be conviction in your heart. Not pride or glory seeking. There has to be a denial of self! Not man pleasers.
It's joy being redeemed but it's not a game!
It's not doing our best. Our best isn't good enough.
It's accepting God's best. His son Jesus Christ.
It's his ability to sanctify us is where we stand.
Let's see what else God's Word has to say in regards to your snarky comment against Jesus.
A few verses before in 2 Peter 1:11 it says "Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ." Do you believe Jesus is your Lord and Savior?
Do you know what "Lord" means?
The same old straw man fallacy shows up again that God the Son isn't God the Father, but no one is claiming that. This attack on Jesus is repeated so much it seems to fall into the disingenuous and lie territory.
God is powerful enough to do what you don't comprehend as a man. Whether you comprehend that or not doesn't change reality or the truth. The Bible says that in John 1 the 'word was God' and was there at the beginning, so do you believe it?
More of God's truth about God:
Luke 4:34 - "Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art; the Holy One of God."
Luke 4:12 after satan put Jesus to the test Jesus says "Do not put the Lord your God to the test."
Isaiah 7:14 - Jesus is called Immanuel which means "God with us"
Isaiah 42:5 "Thus saith God the LORD..."
Isaiah 42:8 "I am the LORD: that is my name..."
Hebrews 1:8 "But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom."
Godhead:
Colossians 2:9
Acts 17:29
Romans 1:20
John 1:18
God is we and us plural:
Genesis 1:26
If the Bible flat out said Jesus is God like it does would you believe it?
Where are the verses that say Jesus isn't God the Son? (none)
Where are the verses saying Jesus IS God the Son (above, numerous)
And where are the verses where Jesus verbally denied being God? (none)
"Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you." 2 Corinthians 13:11 KJV
My last post began to delve into the concept of how the Lord and a saved individual communicate; or perhaps better expressed "commune" with one another. We all have to beware of what is expressed in Matthew 7:23 when after a whole laundry list of things that were done "for the Lord" or "in His Name" Jesus states "I never KNEW you" before they are cast into damnation.
Obviously in a marriage situation there is a close analogy; two people don't get to know each other intimately without there being a unity; in that case of "one flesh".
I have probably delved into the concept another time of the fact that our salvation was determined before the foundation of the earth (see Rev. 13:8). In the practical understanding we have of our mortal existence on earth we see a time and place when our salvation occurred; perhaps more precisely stated as its activation. I have no doubt that those who through God's foreknowledge WOULD come to faith are guaranteed to live until that moment of confession and contrition ( Romans 10:9).
This can be proven more or less by the usual scenario; people who witness to us and circumstances that occur that trigger our interest in "spiritual" matters. Or; we could say simply that as God determined where and when we would be born; which parents; etc. certainly He also determines those details when someone is "Born Again".
Because assurance of salvation is something we all need to consider in light of 2 Corinthians 13:5 and other passages such as Phillippians 2:12 where we are to "work out our salvation with fear and trembling" we need to be cautious of our own profession of faith and that of others. We can't use the "grace card" to sidestep obedience to the Lord to His commandments. 1 John 5:3 states that His commands aren't "burdensome" much as would be the case if we tried to follow all the details of the Old Testament law. Christ shows that true worship is from the heart.
(NIV); but says tribulation and anguish in the KJV. There is another verse stating that judgment begins at the house of God. ( 1 Peter 4:17).
Just as not all Israel is Israel ( Romans 9:6); not all the "professing" church is the possessing church; that is possessing the Holy Spirit and true salvation. Jesus made that perfectly clear to those who thought because they were the physical descendants of Abraham that gave them some sort of benefit were sadly mistaken ( John 8:39-44). Those who had seen Christ; knew the prophecies about the Messiah and yet rejected Him would in fact be worse off than Sodom and Gomorrah in their punishment. ( Matt. 11:21-24). We see similar warnings for those who have knowledge of the truth and become reprobate; in that it would be better not to have known it in the first place ( 2 Peter 2:21).
Testing ourselves to see if we are in the faith is sadly lacking today among professing believers; or we would see a reality check in the fruits of many lives. ( 2 Corinthians 13:5). We can glibly see this example as a carnal bunch of people and think that being steeped in our own religious training or theology that we are automatically exempt from this test. I have said before that there are dangers in any extreme that is lacking the balancing attribute; such as with loving people and warning them of judgment to come ( John 16:8). We see in the Ephesian church everything being done properly but their first love somehow becoming distant in their hearts. Look at 1 Corinthians 13:6; love rejoices in the truth. The basic fact that man's heart is desperately wicked ( Jeremiah 17:9) and that our sin makes us enemies of God ( James 4:4) means that there is a wall between opposing parties and yes God is angry with the wicked (i.e. us) every day. ( Psalm 7:11). Having our heads in the sand doesn't help anyone.
It is said by Catholics that marriage is a sacrament that is only necessitated by the vow a man makes with a woman; and I agree with that view despite disagreeing with many other things in their belief system. The idea of a minister to oversee the event from what I can tell helps to involve two or three witnesses (usually along with parents) such as 2 Corinthians 13:1 states. There are other verses as well; none directly discuss a marriage or any other vow; but it does apply in the fact that should one or more parties violate the covenant church discipline can be used against them. I am not sure how things are in the big picture but it seems whenever marriages do occur it is often in another church that the family prefers and many times there is little sense of a whole congregation being involved at least like they used to in the past. Maybe I am off somewhat but that's how I see it.
Good counsel is helpful in that respect however; if anything to keep a healthy balance of older women guiding the youth and allowing for good interactions and support. This is something more favorable it seems today in the Reformed churches from my experiences. Such interactions of a church being a family of course should extend to foreign missionaries that are affiliated with a denomination. It is a shame when we think of missionaries being "out there" and we detach ourselves emotionally when we give financial support. Their marriages and family are components of their witness as much as their evangelism and one can't be separated from the other; although of course some are single individuals on the mission field.
Again; it is sad to say that from my viewpoint there is a tolerance for remarriage in these same sort of congregations (although many won't perform them). I would say that existing marriages have greater chance of longevity and less for divorce in the Reformed circles than others who have 50 percent divorce rates as all of society if they marry at all.
When we are truly born again it is an unnatural birth taken place.
We are born of God's Spirit. We are Identified with Christ along with other believers.
This is commonly known as the baptism of the Holyspirit.
That same Spirit seals us until the day of redemption. Ephesians 4:30.
When we are born of God's Spirit we may grieve him but our great shepherd never let his sheep stray without seeking and finding him.
Jesus said in John 10:27-29 'My sheep hear my voice, AND I KNOW THEM, and they follow me:
And I GIVE UNTO THEM ETERNAL LIFE; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
( That eternal life starts now.) Jesus says he "KNOW" his sheep.
He could never turn around and say I NEVER KNEW YOU, or you've slipped out of our hands.
We are asked to examine ourselves to see if we are truly in the faith. 2 Corinthians 13:5. because there's a chance we have been manifest that we were not. 1 John 2:19 "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
I will pray for your son.
Bad things happens to us all, including our Lord and his Apostles.
Tell him to remember Job.
God bless you.
To know Christ and to make Him known is the theme of the Navigators ministry and correlates with 1 John and other passages.
This is a good summary of understanding the personal meaning of Christ's sacrifice on the cross for atonement as well as our duties fulfilling our part in the Great Commission.
I imagine most here know the necessary doctrines of believing Christ is a member of the Godhead and thus Divinity Himself who was the only one who could atone for sins (as the sinless spotless Lamb of God) by becoming a man as we are without sin and remaining so throughout His earthly ministry; then dying on the cross and resurrecting from the dead 3 days later. Finally; He is to return once again physically to rule and reign on the earth.
2 Timothy 2:8 and 2 Thessalonians 2:2 show we should avoid the error of stating that the resurrection has already occurred or the day of the Lord is at hand. Matthew 24:26 states that the Lord hasn't come yet for those who say He is hiding somewhere and also states the likeness of His arrival as lightning in the very next verse. This should be enough to disclaim what Preterists state that the Lord has already come. Therefore I would contend that full Preterists that state this are far enough off in doctrine that we should avoid fellowship with them.
Assuming we have the essentials of salvation straightened out; there are many other warnings and admonitions in scripture such as testing ourselves to see if we are in the faith would involve ( 2 Corinthians 13:5). We need to accept that doctrines aren't just what is required to be saved; but also what is necessary to prove that we are bringing fruits worthy of repentance ( Matthew 3:8 and many other similar verses). We are not subject to the law in some sense IF we are truly dead to sin ( Romans 6:11) in one sense; because we have a new nature; but in the same token we DESIRE to obey Christ and love and serve Him as Lord; Master and Savior.
Part 5. J Vernon Mcgee. (Paul and James View Justification.)
Therefore, we see that when Paul uses the term justification he is talking about a man's relationship with God; when James uses the same term, he is talking about a man's relationship with the world. One is perpendicular, and the other is horizontal.
Paul and James View Faith.
The same procedure runs true in their use of the term faith. Again, they mean something different. When Paul talks of faith he is talking about that which is toward God. Paul says that saving faith - a faith that is genuine and real - will transform a person's life. Paul said of himself,
But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. ( Philippians 3:7)
A real revolution took place in his life when he came to Christ. Looking again at Galatians 3:6, we read that "as Abraham believed Godit was accounted to him for righteousness." And then in Romans:
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. ( Romans 4:5)
Paul is speaking here of that which we bring to God. The only thing that a sinner can bring to God is faith in Jesus Christ. When James writes about this, he is not talking about faith toward God but about the works of faith. So Paul is talking about the root of faith, and James is talking about the fruit of faith, but they are both defending the citadel of faith.
Here in James 2:14.
James is not talking about the works of the Law. The faith that James is talking about here is professing faith, that which is phony and counterfeit. Paul refers to the same idea when he says in 1 Corinthians 15:2, "unless ye have believed in vain." Paul also wrote, "Examine yourselves, whether you are in the faith" ( 2 Corinthians 13:5). James simply says that the faith which saves you will produce works-"works of faith.
See Part 6. Paul and James View Faith.
Christ's argument is: If your law calls judges gods, why should I be held guilty of blasphemy for saying that I am the Son of God?
As per the other argument trying to discredit the word "one" sounds like your argument is that one doesn't really mean one, because Jesus used it to describe believers being one. I don't see how being one in unity as Christ's body somehow means that all the Bible verses about Jesus being God and divine suddenly don't apply? The verse about the Father and Son being one is only one of MANY verses competing the picture. The Bible already says Jesus the Word is God so how can you disregard that?
God: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:1 KJV
You: Word was "NOT" God?
"Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also." John 8:19 KJV
Have you thought about how your belief reconciles with verses like this above?
Isaiah 7:14 -
Yes, Jesus is called Immanuel which means "God with us". People called Jesus "God". He's King of King and Lord of Lords. Alpha and Omega, first and last. Do you believe Jesus is Lord? I believe that is a requirement for even being a Christian. A Christ follower should know who Christ is.
1 John 5:7-8
John 10:30
John 8:19
Genesis 1:26
Genesis 11:6-7 (plural "us" which includes Jesus, as per John 1:1)
Philippians 2:5-8
2 Corinthians 5:19
John 1:3
Matthew 28:19
1 Peter 1:2
2 Corinthians 13:14
Deuteronomy 6:4
John 14:10
John 20:28
1 John 2:22-24
Matthew 1:23-25
Colossians 2:9
Acts 17:29
Romans 1:20
Isaiah 7:14
Hebrews 1:8
Isaiah 44:6
Isaiah 43:11
Part 2.
Here's is your response to the original post.
"Hello brother Spencer, Good evening! Thinking of doctrine, the Church practice of
giving and taking reproof by love maybe is part of what you are thinking? Church discipline and restoration?
God bless the walk.
Brother Carleton, That I absolutely agree with! However, that is not in the context of this message.
This message is more in line with Jude 1:3-4 with the focus on what is mentioned in verse 4 "For there are certain men crept in unawares,"
This has the thought of some has come into the fold sort of like through a back door.
Jude 1:10-15. He describes them. They are not Brothern. They are not Sheep.
As for "A Holy kiss.
Does the bible say greet "them" with a Holy kiss? No, I don't think so.
Romans 10:8-10 says the words is ni thy mouth.
These words is what we can confess to others if asked by what means are you saved.
However, what about the guy whom from his heart "by his mouth" speaks against truth?
We don't judge his present spiritual condition; he's done it ALREADY by refusing to believe and enter in the straight and narrow gate. See Matthew 7:13-15. and John 3:18.
What do these verses concerning a Holy kiss have in common? This Holy kiss is for the Brothern.
1 Corinthians 16:20.
2 Corinthians 13:11-12.
1 Thessalonians 5:26.
Romans 16:16.
The Holy kiss wasn't only meant to express love for the Brothern.
The Holy kiss is meant to express acceptance especially at a time when Gentiles was coming into the fold.
It certainly wasn't for non-believers.
Look at 2 John1:10. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed.
Also see Romans 16:17-18.
Does open rebuke harm a brother?
Open rebuke is better than secret love.
Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful. Proverbs 27:5-6.
See Part 3
You came to my mind while I was on my way home from errands an hour or so ago. And then the thought "Encourage" came into my mind.
I do pray daily for those on this site, but this prompting is not a common experience for me. So, I will encourage you and others on here with these words from Scripture.
The Aaronic Blessing in Numbers 6:24-26
"The Lord bless thee and keep thee; The Lord make His face shine upon thee, and be gracious to thee; The Lord lift up His countenance upon thee, and give thee peace."
AND
Paul's Blessing in Ephesians 6:23-24
"Peace be to the brethren, and the love of faith, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. Grace be with all them that love our Lord Jesus Christ in sincerity."
AND to close,
Paul's Blessing in 2 Corinthians 13:14
"The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen"
2 Peter 1:20 No PROPHECY of the scripture is (in and of itself it's) OWN private interpretation.
2 Corinthians 13:1 ...in the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established .....
Genesis 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, ye shall surely not DIE:
Genesis 3:5 FOR GOD DOTH KNOW that in the day you thereof, then your EYES SHALL BE OPENED, and ye shall be as gods, KNOWING GOOD and EVIL.
This is ALL PROPHECY.
Genesis 3:22 And the Lord God SAID, Behold, the man HAS BECOME AS ONE OF US, to KNOW good and evil.....
The FRUIT was KNOWLEDGE of good and evil, the KNOWLEDGE of gods.
John 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not WRITTEN in your LAW, ye are gods
John 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the WORD the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken.
Psalms 82:6
Deuteronomy 10:17 your God is a God of gods, and Lord of Lords ....
Psalms 136:6 Give thanks unto the God of gods, for his mercy endureth for ever.
Now, Eve was a prophecy of the coming bride of Christ by HIS RESURRECTION, and what happened she was resurrected with her husband to never DIE.
The gift of God is eternal life.
God can even use Satan to speak prophecy, what did Satan say, Ye shall never DIE.
Luke 20:36 Neither can THEY DIE ANYMORE, Adam (Christ) took of the fruit and did eat with his wife and Christ and his wife (creation) DIED, and the spirit of the Father RAISED them as ONE FLESH), for they are equal unto the angels, and are the children of God, being the CHILDREN of the RESURRECTION.
Philippians 2:5 Let this MIND BE IN YOU, which also was in Christ Jesus:
Philippians 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, though it not robbery to be equal with God.
God Bless YOU!
I am just a voice crying out in the wilderness... A conscience if you will. Letting people know to prepare for judgment. For it will start in the house of God. A lot of people in the Church "think they are saved." So great is Satan's power of deception that the tares truly suppose themselves to be Children of the kingdom!
Paul urges all those claiming to be spiritually saved to "examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves"
2 Corinthians 13:5 (KJV) 5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
I can't tell you the enormous amounts of pushback I get from both "Christian" men and women on Ephesians 5 and even more pushback on 1 Corinthians 11 "head coverings during corporate worship whenever I bring it up.
Usually, the go-to scripture for these feminist Christians is Galatians 3:28.
Paul urges all those claiming to be spiritually saved to "examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; TEST yourselves."
2 Corinthians 13:5 (KJV) Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
>The word of God cuts both ways, a two edged sword.
>How many husbands love their wives as CHRIST loves the church ..... probably NONE.
>The word says you are the WIFE of Christ, so these scripture of a wife submitting to her HUSBAND apply as much to you as to any earthly wife.
Paul urges all those claiming to be spiritually saved to "examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves"
2 Corinthians 13:5 (KJV) 5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
I'm also always amazed by the amount of pushback this topic gets from both men and women in Christendom...
Paul urges all those claiming to be spiritually saved to "examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves" 2 Corinthians 13:5 (KJV) 5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
What I find shocking is that you don't realize that.
I'm also always amazed by the amount of pushback this topic gets from both men and women in Christendom...
Paul urges all those claiming to be spiritually saved to "examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves" 2 Corinthians 13:5 (KJV) 5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
Satan "sows" "children of the wicked one," who profess to be children of the kingdom, and in outward ways are so like the true children that only the angels may, in the end, be trusted to separate them. [[[[[[So great is Satan's power of deception that the tares often really suppose themselves to be children of the kingdom.]]]]]] Many other parables and exhortations have this mingled condition in view.
Children of the wicked one are always religious unbelievers, mere pagan / nonbelievers are never so-called.
Paul urges all those claiming to be spiritually saved to "examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves" 2 Corinthians 13:5 (KJV) 5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
What about the Western Christian women who do not submit to their Christian husbands and we know probably most of them don't?
What about the total disregard for Head Coverings I just posted on that.
Link
Post-baptismal sin is covered under the blood for sins which we REPENT from not living IN as a way or walk of life and never really turn away from. What is true "repentance" it is like a burning house you never go back to it!
I liken this to two ships anchored at port. One ship is grounded in the Word and will not move from the harbor by the ebb and flow of the ocean. The second ship anchor is eroded due to continued sin as it continues to drift away from the harbor EVENTUALLY it finds itself lost in the middle of the ocean with no clue how to get back--- apostasy
1 Peter 4:17 (KJV)
The discussion I am about to embark on is of a matter of grave importance and it is with much conviction and sorrow that I pursue it. I am ever mindful of the fear of the Lord and the trepidation of getting it wrong that I begin this series.
I have somewhere in my stash of Bibles a Dake's Bible that the Lord providentially had someone leave on top of a cardboard compactor in the back of a store I worked with (it had a very common name on it and after a brief search I didn't pursue it; no one in the store knew who left it some 25 years ago). My point is that there are HUNDREDS of scriptures which the author uses to prove that one indeed CAN lose their salvation. Ultimately, I do NOT believe you can lose something which God provides and seals with His Spirit ( Eph. 1:13-14).
Having said that we cannot ignore the plethora of scriptures in both Testaments that show men of God who the Spirit was at work with at times that appeared in the end to be lost spiritually. A chief example is Saul in the Old Testament. I have tackled this subject before but wish to dive into more scripture at this time for several reasons. I have mentioned that it is the fruit of the Spirit that must be an evidence of the new life within; behaviors that only show bad fruit are at best someone who remains carnal in many ways and at worst someone who remains lost and has some other motivation other than desiring to worship a Holy God and live a life of holiness to love and obey. 2 Corinthians 13:5 demonstrates to that church who were immature in many ways something we all need to do. A "reality check" is something which others even in the world can challenge us with if we live contradictory to what we profess; and of course ultimately there has to be a battle between the flesh and Spirit with a true child of God. True believers sense when they are "grieving the Spirit" ( Eph. 4:30-31); which can only happen if the Spirit is in us to begin with.
"Now the parable is this: THE SEED IS THE WORD OF GOD." ( Luke 8:11)
Another scripture verse is this that confirms that the word of God represents "seed" and in fact "incorruptible seed":
"Being born again, NOT OF CORRUPTIBLE SEED, but of INCORRUPTIBLE [seed], by THE WORD OF GOD, which liveth and abideth for ever." ( 1 Peter 1:23)
So, my dilemma is do I believe you - who (presumably) is a 'man' who has NOT died and has NOT risen from the dead and has NOT ascended in Heaven - OR, do I believe the words in the Bible spoken by Jesus Christ Himself - supported by the Apostle Peters words also thereby making TWO WITNESSES that agree:
"...In the mouth of two or three witnesses [Jesus and Peter] shall every word be established." ( 2 Corinthians 13:1)
If I was to believe what you wrote, I would then have to say that Jesus Christ is a liar. I couldn't do that.
Given that Jesus Christ has both died, risen from the dead and ascended into heaven according to the scriptures and as both He and the Apostle Peter have affirmed that "THE [incorruptible] SEED IS THE WORD OF GOD", I have to reject your false claims.
Previously; the concept has been introduced as to evidence of good or bad fruit as indicators of true or false salvation in earlier posts. The idea of self; somehow being able to adequately perform the behaviors such as illustrated in the Beatitudes on the Sermon on the Mount (i.e. be a peacemaker; meek; etc) basically demonstrates humanism in some form. I also mentioned the idea of "decisional regeneration". Often; there isn't much thought once we have "fire insurance" as it were; of such verses as 2 Corinthians 13:5 in testing ourselves to see if we are; indeed in the faith. Iron sharpening iron ( Prov. 27:17) is a way that God often uses to chastise us; which He does with all who are truly in the faith. We also should examine carefully the entire message of scripture; in this case the Beatitudes. Here it DEFINES who the meek are; those who are "despitefully used; wrongfully accused and otherwise abused" (my own rhyme giving the gist of the scripture). In the flesh we may put up with this; but expect someone to pity us; unlike what Jesus went through in Isaiah 53. To die for a friend is one thing; but for enemies is something else ( Romans 5:7-8).
The opposite also holds true; people somehow read the Gospels and think that Christ was all about bringing people together; peace and harmony. The unregenerate mind glosses over Matthew 10:34; 10:36; and the 10 times they tried to kill Jesus by various methods such as stoning and throwing him off a cliff BEFORE the cross. The last case was when Lazarus was raised from the dead when he along with Christ were in the final failed attempt at assassination. The world of course has trouble understanding the need for a bloody cross; of the fact that ALL of us are guilty for His death (at least the elect). Ultimately; to believe Christ is God (part of a triune God) has to be given by God ( Matt. 16:17).
Without God we can do nothing ( John 15:5). See also Hebrews 11:6.
It's great to see you back. I hope you had a wonderful vacation. And yes, I agree with what you're saying. There is so much packed into that one verse ( 2 Corinthians 13:5).
Knowing that faith literally means persuasion, if I am to examine myself, the question I must answer is whose persuasion am I under? Do I have Christ (His Spirit) in me? If so, I belong to Him. And Paul says in Romans 8:14 that those who belong to Christ are being led by the Spirit of Christ. Factual statement!
My understanding is that in the early church, if there was a test given or an examination as to whether somebody is saved or not, there is only one criteria. Examine yourselves and test yourselves, whether Christ is in you, literally His Spirit.
The very next verse is interesting. Paul says in 2 Corinthians 13:6, "But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates."
In fact, they are the proof that Christ was in Paul, because Christ spoke through him to them. They got saved and were growing in Christ through Paul's ministry.
So we need to examine ourselves. Whose persuasion are we under? Are we we being persuaded by Christ in us? If so, would His Spirit in us persuade us to walk away? Or are we under a different persuasion?
Again, it is great to see you back. May the Lord continue to bless you and your family abundantly in Christ Jesus!
This I believe was the position & concern of each of the NT writers, not just in calling out evident sin in the Church, but for each one to examine themselves whether they were even in the Faith. In some cases this was clear (as in 1 John 2:18,19), and in others such as Hebrews 3:12-14: "Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end", a little unclear. The message here was for each one to encourage & counsel those being led astray by sin or deception, that they might turn back to holy living & not face the Lord's Discipline. But if they persisted, not holding their "confidence stedfast unto the end", it only showed that "they were not all of us", only displaying a show of godliness & religious experience, but inwardly knowing their deceitfulness & hypocrisy.
The Word is abundantly clear that the believer could never acquire or sustain his salvation by his efforts, rather, by the working of the Holy Spirit indwelling him ( Titus 3:4-7; Romans 8:9; Galatians 5:24,25). Unfortunately, alongwith the oft preached Gospel of salvation, i.e. 'from God & sustained by man', comes the rarely heard messages of 'life & power given to believers to know, to pursue & enjoy, which comes from the indwelling Spirit'.
It was nice to read your literal renderings of the verses you shared.
(Part 2):
In the early Church, the requirement for salvation was the presence of God's Spirit dwelling within a person. Paul instructed, in Romans 8:9, "Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, this one is not of Him." In Romans 8:14, he wrote, "For as many as are being led by the Spirit of God, these are the sons of God."
And again, in Romans 8:16, he instructs that "The Spirit itself bears witness with our spirit, that we are children of God." Also, in 2 Corinthians 13:5, Paul challenged the church at Corinth: "Examine yourselves, if you are in the faith; prove your own selves, or do you not know your own selves, that Jesus Christ is in you, except you are reprobates?"
John, writing in 1 John 3:24 supported this same understanding: "And in this we know that He abides in us, from the Spirit whom He has given to us." He repeats this same truth, although worded somewhat differently, in 1 John 4:13, "In this we know that we dwell in Him, and He in us, because He has given to us of His Spirit."
From the preceding scriptures, we see that salvation happens only when God's Spirit enters and remains in a person's spirit, thereby causing spiritual birth. Nothing in the Bible teaches that salvation is accomplished by the repetition of the Sinner's Prayer or through the performance of any other kind of human formula.
In addition to teaching that God is the sole source of salvation, the Bible also teaches that every saved person is kept by the power of God. Peter writes, in 1 Peter 1:5, that believers are, "The ones who are being kept in the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time."
Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is any private interpretation.
This is not saying it's man's own interpretation.
It's saying that single scripture; in and of itself, does not contain all the truth of prophecy, it has to be combined with other scriptures.
2 Corinthians 13:1 ...In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.
God Bless YOU!
Keep in mind also the difference between physically being preserved for a time and spiritual deliverance. These are both realities for the children of God in reverse order. In New Testament times as with Old many are called but few chosen ( Matt. 22:14). There are other verses showing how some experience some of the benefits of being in God's presence ( Hebrews 6:4) are still not ultimately saved. The parable of the sower and the seed illustrate this fact showing how the seed of truth must eventually not only take root but produce fruit. God enables that His Spirit reproduces good fruit in our lives as evidence that it is indwelling; not merely an external event. Hence all true believers are "sealed" until the Day of Redemption ( Ephesians 4:30).
In God's Providence there are some; such as the 1/3 that are preserved "going through the fire" ( Zechariah 13:9) who appear to make it physically through the Tribulation to repopulate the earth in the Millennium. That will include the handful of Gentiles that make it; although man is said in general to be "rarer than the gold of Ophir" who makes it through that way ( Isaiah 13:12).
Thus; these verses and a multitude of others makes it imperative that we "test ourselves to see if we are in the faith". ( 2 Corinthians 13:5). I personally believe that through God's sanctification process we all must get beyond our initial excitement over being a new believer as well as the trials of persecution AND temptations of the world to be "tested and approved" as true believers as part of the process of chastisement as God's adopted children. ( Romans 12:2; etc). The end of all those called and chosen in Him is glorification (read all of Romans 8:30).
Hope this helps.
2. 2 Corinthians 13:5. "Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith..." This verse should be a warning given after any profession of faith. Warnings need to be associated with that in regard to producing good fruit ( Gal. 5:22-23). We of course don't want to present a "hyper-grace" type message in any form that we are now free to sin since grace "abounds" as stated in Romans 5:20 and subsequent verses. Here are several things one should look for after a genuine salvation experience and are evidences of SANCTIFICATION; the next stage in the process leading to GLORIFICATION. Romans 8:17; however talks about part of the necessary process "provided we suffer for Him."... This is not to suggest that we are all going to be martyred; but it DOES assume that we are crucified with Christ ( Galatians 2:20) and our life is now in Him. This means a death to our PRIDE; which of course is based on a whole bunch of subpoints (materialism; self grorification; esteem; reputation; status; etc.)
There used to be a song by Amy Grant "you've got to count the cost if you want to be a believer." as one of the lyrics. I could say more here; but I will leave it at this: such advice is sorely needed today if someone seeks God; and we must live it out ourselves.
3. Warnings of specific things the enemy is likely to place in your path to make you fall. I don't know how I could write this without reference to a primary target Satan is going after; namely marriages and family. If such things as personal vows taken in God's name (such as a marriage Covenant) are NOT taken as being DEADLY serious; then we can certainly understand why the confessing church has about 50 percent divorce rate par with the rest of the "pagan" world. I cannot understand how a covenant with God where the specific vow "until death do us part" can be violated. I don't wish to be flagged for the debate here on the "escape clause" in 2 places in Matthew
a. His Names: Hebrews 1:8, John 20:28 (God); Matthew 16:16, Matthew 26:61-65 (the Son of God); Matthew 22:41-46 (Lord); Revelation 19:13 (Word of God); Revelation 19:16 (King of kings and Lord of lords).
b. His Characteristics: Matthew 28:18 (Omnipotence: all powerful); Luke 6:8, John 2:24,25, John 13:11 (Omniscience: all knowing); Matthew 18:20 (Omnipresence: present in any place); John 1:4 (Life); John 14:6 (Truth); Hebrews 13:8 (Immutability: unchanging); 1 Timothy 3:16, John 1:1-14 (God manifest in the flesh in Jesus).
c. His Works: John 1:3, Colossians 1:16 (creates); Colossians 1:17 (sustains); Luke 7:48,49 (forgives sin); John 11:41-44 (raises the dead); John 5:27 (judges); John 15:26 (sends the Holy Spirit).
d. His receiving Worship: Hebrews 1:6 (from angels); Revelation 5:11-13 (from other heavenly beings); Matthew 14:33 (from men); Philippians 2:10 (from all).
e. His equality within the Triune God: John 14:23, John 10:30-33 (with the Father); Matthew 28:19, 2 Corinthians 13:14 (with the Father and the Spirit).
I hope you can see from these few Scriptures that Jesus was not just a special Man or Prophet sent by God, but truly was "God manifested in the flesh". No other man before Jesus' coming, during, or after His leaving this Earth, could ever fully reflect God's Glory, Wisdom & Power. Only God could - and He did this by sending us His Word, made Him a Man, so that He could give His Life as full payment for our sins - but only to those who believe this & place their trust in Him. To some, the 'Trinity' teaching is abominable. But man's salvation depends on the Divine Person of the Lord Jesus Christ - that God could accept no other Sacrifice to redeem & secure people to Himself - only by giving fully of Himself, which is true love for all.
Principle 3 (cont). I would say that there are verses showing validity of either argument (i.e. all believers are taken out at the Rapture) OR that some may be left behind whose garments are soiled as shown in Revelation 3:4 to be made purified. I have discussed this in more depth in my Revelation commentaries. We certainly do well to "test ourselves to see if we are in the faith" ( 2 Corinthians 13:5) in either event. Revelation 3:11 shows how we may forfeit our rewards at least; and 1 Corinthians 13:12-13 show how we may suffer loss if that happens. I would venture to say that the lack of discussion of the Bema Seat and a lackadaisical attitude in general to considering being in His Presence characterizes todays church in a large part. Naturally; with this attitude hearts become calloused ( Matthew 24:12); and we are also not urgent about fulfilling the Great Commission. The political correctness of today has infiltrated a church already defining doctrinal standards on a much broader road than the straight and narrow delineated by the scriptures. Such events were of course warned about by both Paul and Peter who agonized in prayer over what they knew would come after their demise ( Acts 20:29-31); 2 Peter 2:1).
In short; my point here is that none us should take for granted that we are saved without evidence of fruit; and none of us should rest on our laurels so to speak trusting that we will be raptured out of here. The same idea applies; we are free from our old nature but not free to imbibe once again in the world following our old sin nature. If the Kingdom of heaven isn't within our souls now it certainly won't be later. Whatever is the case with the Rapture itself there is certainly enough wisdom to go around to escape certain events beforehand that can be avoided if we are focusing on being seated in heavenly places ( Ephesians 2:6).
That's all true Adam, we've redefining holiness and worship, and excused disobedience.
This will cause many to be deceived. Matthew 7:22-23. says "MANY".
That should cause us to examine ourselves to see if we are in the faith.
I like the way Paul put it in
2 Corinthians 13:5. You notice whereit says "how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?"
( He's saying IF Christ is in you you WILL perform a certain way.)
2 Corinthians 3:3-5 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, BUT WITH THE SPIRIT OF THE LIVING GOD;
( not in tables of stone,) BUT IN FLESHY TABLES OF THE HEART.
And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; BUT OUR SUFFICIENCY IS OF GOD;
God Lords over our hearts. Him IN us is manifested in our walk.
I believe that is what the Lord is saying in this rhetorical question in Luke 6:46 "And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?"
If he is your Lord he put his spirit inside you to perform his will!
We've been sanctified Positionally.
( Given an atonement).
We are being sanctified practically.
(Growing in grace and quickened by the Spirit. ) This is our walk.
Worship is in truth and in spirit. It's not a hobby!
When we're passing out God's word we're not going to be correct all the time but we should hold it dear to our heart and be cautious to not treat it like a conversation at a round table.
Neither will we find our walk perfect but the desire to be perfect should be there.
There has to be conviction in your heart. Not pride or glory seeking. There has to be a denial of self! Not man pleasers.
It's joy being redeemed but it's not a game!
It's not doing our best. Our best isn't good enough.
It's accepting God's best. His son Jesus Christ.
It's his ability to sanctify us is where we stand.
God bless.
A few verses before in 2 Peter 1:11 it says "Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ." Do you believe Jesus is your Lord and Savior?
Do you know what "Lord" means?
The same old straw man fallacy shows up again that God the Son isn't God the Father, but no one is claiming that. This attack on Jesus is repeated so much it seems to fall into the disingenuous and lie territory.
God is powerful enough to do what you don't comprehend as a man. Whether you comprehend that or not doesn't change reality or the truth. The Bible says that in John 1 the 'word was God' and was there at the beginning, so do you believe it?
More of God's truth about God:
Luke 4:34 - "Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art; the Holy One of God."
Luke 4:12 after satan put Jesus to the test Jesus says "Do not put the Lord your God to the test."
Isaiah 7:14 - Jesus is called Immanuel which means "God with us"
Isaiah 42:5 "Thus saith God the LORD..."
Isaiah 42:8 "I am the LORD: that is my name..."
Hebrews 1:8 "But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom."
Godhead:
Colossians 2:9
Acts 17:29
Romans 1:20
John 1:18
God is we and us plural:
Genesis 1:26
If the Bible flat out said Jesus is God like it does would you believe it?
Where are the verses that say Jesus isn't God the Son? (none)
Where are the verses saying Jesus IS God the Son (above, numerous)
And where are the verses where Jesus verbally denied being God? (none)
"I AM" John 8:56-59
John 10:30
John 8:19
Philippians 2:5-8
2 Corinthians 5:19
John 1:3
Matthew 28:19
1 Peter 1:2
2 Corinthians 13:14
Deuteronomy 6:4
John 14:10
John 20:28
1 John 2:22-24
Matthew 1:23-25
Colossians 2:9
Acts 17:29
Romans 1:20
Isaiah 7:14
Hebrews 1:8
Isaiah 44:6
Isaiah 43:11
John 17:5
John 17:21