"Behold, victuals shall be so good cheap upon earth, that they shall think themselves to be in good case, and even then shall evils grow upon earth, sword, famine, and great confusion. For many of them that dwell upon earth shall perish of famine; and the other, that escape the hunger, shall the sword destroy."
2 Esdras 2:27-30
Be not weary: for when the day of trouble and heaviness cometh, others shall weep and be sorrowful, but thou shalt be merry and have abundance. The heathen shall envy thee, but they shall be able to do nothing against thee, saith the Lord. My hands shall cover thee, so that thy children shall not see hell. Be joyful, O thou mother, with thy children; for I will deliver thee," saith the Lord.
2 Esdras 13:23-24
"The one who brings the peril at that time will protect those who fall into peril, who have works and faith toward the Almighty. Understand therefore that those who are left are more blessed than those who have died."
Matthew 24:39-44
"So will it be at the coming of the Son of Man. Two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left.
Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day on which your Lord will come. But understand this: If the homeowner had known in which watch of the night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. For this reason, you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour you do not expect." Jesus
"Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?"
Who told you there were only 66 books? God told me the Apocrypha is his word i studied the Apocrypha. you can't just throw out a claim something is not scripture or fake if you haven't even studied it
I'm glad to see that the moderators, of which you are not one , are more respectful of the right to free speech and less presumptuous of the motives of others , than you are. If you want this site to be filled only with posts that you agree with then I am very sorry for you . Personally I love free speech and try not to guess at the motives of others in regard to what they say and why they might be saying it . Stimulation is good for the brain . Stagnation is bad for my faith . I have lived and worked in countries that do not have any free speech at all . It's horrible , fearful , paranoid , secretive and soul destroying . If you had ever experienced a society in which everyone is trying to second guess everyone else's motives and reasons for doing and saying every and any thing , you would understand what an enormous privilege , to be treasured , free speech is . When reading posts on here , I also try to remember that not everyone is as articulate or educated as everyone else and sometimes the way a person expresses themselves may not be accurately interpreted if English is their second language or they are not used to writing things that are going to be read by others . A little leeway is in order I think ?
Hello, maybe your ancestors were slave owners? That can't be disproven.
I agree with Spencer that this seems to be a tabloid-style attack that only takes away from the point you were trying to make. Who are "early church fathers" to you? Maybe your fathers aren't others' "fathers". My father is God the father.
"it's not often possible to discern some ones motive for posting and I think it's folly to try to do so . I don't believe that we know anyone's heart or mind fully . Secondly , the truth often makes uncomfortable reading , but if it is the truth it must not be ignored or covered up".
Here's the issue.
When Stlouistv stated; "the early church fathers who were slave owners btw had no business removing these books out of the bible and lied and said they were not inspired.
( That was contentious) There wasn't a need to discern anything being there was no proof provided with that racially tone msg that had no other purpose but to be contentious.
"THE EARLY CHURCH FATHERS WHO WERE SLAVE OWNERS." ???
Did that have to be added?
Is that not purposely contentious?
Where is the reasoning behind the comment or explanation. Proof and purpose?
Who and how is that statement declared truth?
Because he said so?
Just because you have freedom of speech means you have to speak, He should have pleaded the fifth.
Sammi I believe a person don't have to agree with peoples "opinions" but we all should earnestly covet what is truth and clarity.
I'm not a partial person and I am not influenced by any worldly culture or mans traditions whether male, female, or race. We're all held accountable to true worship in the church, without the world's influence.
Some love to use these sites to function in a way their local Church won't allow them. However this site has Guidelines.
We come here and take advantage of its liberty but let's not ignore
Galatians 5:13 "For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another."
Concerning the topic of the books of the Apocrypha there are groups out there that use those books to divide racially.
I've debated them and is very familiar with their catch phrases.
Is there any proof that you can share that would show without a doubt that these books were indeed inspired by God?
I find it interesting what Paul said in Acts 20:27, " For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God."
What a great verse!
He hasn't withheld anything from them. He wanted them to know the (whole council) of God. That's why he sat house to house and publicly, any way he could, day and night as a slave of Christ, in order that every believer that he came in contact with would have the whole council of God.
That is one of the reasons why we have these times together, to go through the whole bible, chapter by chapter to see what it says. To know the whole council of God!
Now, Paul's statement would not make much sense if he left any part of those apocryphal books out. And Paul says he gave them the entire council of God, meaning nothing left out.
However, in all of Paul's writings, he never once quoted from any of those books. None of the apostles did either.
Plus, not once did Jesus ever quote from any of those books. It would seem that if they were inspired, Paul would have taught from them.
Perhaps there might be some valuable historical information in these books, but are the truly inspired by God?
Please forgive me if I appear to be argumentative , I can assure you that's not my intention . I must say how I feel though . Firstly , with all respect , it's not often possible to discern some ones motive for posting and I think it's folly to try to do so . I don't believe that we know anyone's heart or mind fully . Secondly , the truth often makes uncomfortable reading , but if it is the truth it must not be ignored or covered up . We , as humans , should be aware as much as possible , of the great mistakes wrought by governments , countries , cultures and individuals . It's only by being aware of our mistakes that we can hope to learn from them and not repeat them . History must not be erased or rewritten because it's uncomfortable , our children and children's children must be aware of our mistakes , no matter how hideous and shameful they are , so they can learn from them and not repeat them . This is the whole point of free speech . It's one of the cornerstones of democracy and must be upheld .
Here are several scriptures I found about death & after death : James 2:26, Ecclesiasticus 38:23, Ecclesiasticus 22:11, 2 Maccabees 7:36, 2 Maccabees 12:44, Ecclesiasticus 10:11, Ecclesiasticus 17:28, Baruch, 2:17, Psalms 88:10, Psalms 115:11, Ecclesiastes 9:5,
after death,: Matthew 17:1-3, Luke 7:12-16, Luke 8:49-56, John 11:21-45, Matthew 27:50-54, Luke 16:22-31, John 21:14, Acts 3:15, Acts 4:10, Mark 12:25,26,27, Luke 24:46, John 5:12, John 5:25, 1 Peter 1:3, 1 Peter 2:24, 1 Peter 4:5, Revelation 1:5, Revelation 1:18, Revelation 14:9-20, 1 Corinthians 15:20,21, 2 Timothy 4:1, 1 Thessalonians 4:16, 1 Thessalonians 1:10, Matthew 25:31-46, Romans 14:9, Matthew 22:32, Isaiah 26:19,
2 Esdras 2:35-47 Be ready to the reward of the Kingdom, for the everlasting light shall shine upon you for evermore.
Flee the shadow of this world, receive the joyfulness of your glory: I testify my Saviour openly.
O receive the gift that is given you, and be glad, giving thanks unto him that hath led you to the Heavenly Kingdom.
Arise up and stand, behold the number of those that be sealed in the feast of the Lord;
Which are departed from the shadow of the world, and have received glorious garments of the Lord.
Take thy number, O Sion, and shut up those of thine that are clothed in white, which have fulfilled the law of the Lord.
The number of thy children, whom thou longedst for, is fulfilled: beseech the power of the Lord, that thy people, which have been called from the beginning, may be hallowed.
I Esdras saw upon the mount Sion a great people, whom I could not number, and they all praised the Lord with songs.
And in the midst of them there was a young Man of a high stature, taller than all the rest, and upon every one of their heads He set crowns, and was more exalted; which I marvelled at greatly.
So I asked the angel, and said, Sir, what are these?
He answered and said unto me, These be they that have put off the mortal clothing, and put on the immortal, and have confessed the name of God: now are they crowned, and receive palms.
Then said I unto the angel, What young person is it that crowneth them, and giveth them palms in their hands?
So he answered and said unto me, It is the Son of God, whom they have confessed in the world. Then began I greatly to commend them that stood so stiffly for the name of the Lord.
So who did Esther marry? Boaz? You err not knowing the scriptures, you understand through the lusts of your flesh.
You want to explain these statutes? Leviticus 22:10-13, Deuteronomy 21:10-14, & Deuteronomy 23:7-8
I think you have not read yet 2 Ezra which is 2 Esdras in the apocrypha. After reading Ezra, 1 Esdras, and Esther (both books and in order) then you need to read 2 Esdras. God did not answer them, he was not with them, he never responded to Nehemiah's cry for Him to come and dwell with them, yet there was no answer. They were never saved from captivity by going back to the land trying to rebuild a house to the Lord. They rebelled against his captivity and he tells Ezra to tell the people there that they need to go their way (2 Esdras 1:4-9). They thought the burden of the Lord (the reason he didn't come) was because of the stranger wives ( Jeremiah 23:25-40 & Lamentations 2:14). So they put them and their children away. They were wrong. Listen to the prophets he proclaimed came from him (2 Esdras 1:38-39). 2 Esdras 2:1-17, 2 Esdras 2:33-48, 2 Esdras 3:23-4:2, 2 Esdras 5:16-19, 2 Esdras 6:57-59, Psalm 127:1. Either be in captivity still or seek the Lord with all your heart and soul and He will release unto you the wisdom and understanding of His word through your spirit. 2 Chronicles 6:29-33, Ezekiel 47:21-33, Isaiah 56:1-8, etc. etc. there is so much more... Christ comes in the full volume of the book, do not add nor take away. Cherry picking scriptures is of the false teachers who have come to deceive and the Word of God is not in them.
O thank You heavenly Father for Your grace, Your lovingkindnesses, tender mercies and Your SALVATION. You are the Creator, our Maker, our SAVIOUR, our Redeemer, our GOD! In CHRIST JESUS we live forevermore and give Thee all praise everlasting Father, Almighty GOD, the Holy One of Israel! All the elders, brothers and sisters in CHRIST JESUS long to meet You in the air dear LORD, GOD of our SALVATION! 2 Esdras 2:13 Go, and ye shall receive: pray for few days unto you, that they may be shortened: the kingdom is already prepared for you: watch. Mark 13:20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.
The Grace of God is to all, the law of Moses was not to make you or us live Holy before God, but to show how much we could not, thus God Is Love and His Grace is not to one people, it has appeared to all, Thus Jesus Christ the Son Of God. To have eternal life is to know God.
Mortal clothing is speaking of the thoughts of the terrestrial brain. The immortal, then, would be the celestial thoughts. That is to mortify the carnal, to find the straight way home! To stand straight: do not bend, do not bow, do not break: as the mighty oak tree, planted on the solid ROCK CHRIST .
Pos: Hypothetically, if this was kept in the KJV it would be because of the references to Savior, Resurrection, Son of God Jesus Christ . Paul also mentions verse 45 in the NT. Def. for "palms " would be greatly appreciated. Neg: Q: Weren 't those who married the heathen destroyed by God? Why is it in here that they live? They are under the Law of Moses.
I like the Apocrypha . It is mentioned in the Masoretic Text I read that give it proof that it should have been canonize. It was in the original KJV, as you have here. There was a Greek Copy, and now, in the dead sea scrolls, i think there is Hebrew copy. I think here in 2nd Esdras, which is Greek for Ezra .And there were 4 books of Ezra in this chapter 2 this teaches about life after death. How all souls return to heaven how like the rich man, they torment themselves. Not God, and no one else dose it to them. They do it to themselves, because they see they did not make it. But there they are in heaven. This should be in every Bible.
This chapter is full of great meaning and testimony of Jesus Christ First in verse 34 Esdras declares look for your Shepherd then even more directly I testify my Saviour openly And then I am amazed and impressed at the end of the chapter as it gives us a guide to obtain eternal life and also talks about the resurrection putting off the mortal clothing and putting on the inmortal Then he says in first 47 It is the Son of God whom they have confessed in the world The testimony and meaning here is clear and one that we can apply in our lives
"Behold, victuals shall be so good cheap upon earth, that they shall think themselves to be in good case, and even then shall evils grow upon earth, sword, famine, and great confusion. For many of them that dwell upon earth shall perish of famine; and the other, that escape the hunger, shall the sword destroy."
2 Esdras 2:27-30
Be not weary: for when the day of trouble and heaviness cometh, others shall weep and be sorrowful, but thou shalt be merry and have abundance. The heathen shall envy thee, but they shall be able to do nothing against thee, saith the Lord. My hands shall cover thee, so that thy children shall not see hell. Be joyful, O thou mother, with thy children; for I will deliver thee," saith the Lord.
2 Esdras 13:23-24
"The one who brings the peril at that time will protect those who fall into peril, who have works and faith toward the Almighty. Understand therefore that those who are left are more blessed than those who have died."
Matthew 24:39-44
"So will it be at the coming of the Son of Man. Two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left.
Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day on which your Lord will come. But understand this: If the homeowner had known in which watch of the night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. For this reason, you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour you do not expect." Jesus
"Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?"
Who told you there were only 66 books? God told me the Apocrypha is his word i studied the Apocrypha. you can't just throw out a claim something is not scripture or fake if you haven't even studied it
I agree with Spencer that this seems to be a tabloid-style attack that only takes away from the point you were trying to make. Who are "early church fathers" to you? Maybe your fathers aren't others' "fathers". My father is God the father.
You stated;
"it's not often possible to discern some ones motive for posting and I think it's folly to try to do so . I don't believe that we know anyone's heart or mind fully . Secondly , the truth often makes uncomfortable reading , but if it is the truth it must not be ignored or covered up".
Here's the issue.
When Stlouistv stated; "the early church fathers who were slave owners btw had no business removing these books out of the bible and lied and said they were not inspired.
( That was contentious) There wasn't a need to discern anything being there was no proof provided with that racially tone msg that had no other purpose but to be contentious.
"THE EARLY CHURCH FATHERS WHO WERE SLAVE OWNERS." ???
Did that have to be added?
Is that not purposely contentious?
Where is the reasoning behind the comment or explanation. Proof and purpose?
Who and how is that statement declared truth?
Because he said so?
Just because you have freedom of speech means you have to speak, He should have pleaded the fifth.
Sammi I believe a person don't have to agree with peoples "opinions" but we all should earnestly covet what is truth and clarity.
I'm not a partial person and I am not influenced by any worldly culture or mans traditions whether male, female, or race. We're all held accountable to true worship in the church, without the world's influence.
Some love to use these sites to function in a way their local Church won't allow them. However this site has Guidelines.
We come here and take advantage of its liberty but let's not ignore
Galatians 5:13 "For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another."
Concerning the topic of the books of the Apocrypha there are groups out there that use those books to divide racially.
I've debated them and is very familiar with their catch phrases.
Let's see what follows.
God bless.
Is there any proof that you can share that would show without a doubt that these books were indeed inspired by God?
I find it interesting what Paul said in Acts 20:27, " For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God."
What a great verse!
He hasn't withheld anything from them. He wanted them to know the (whole council) of God. That's why he sat house to house and publicly, any way he could, day and night as a slave of Christ, in order that every believer that he came in contact with would have the whole council of God.
That is one of the reasons why we have these times together, to go through the whole bible, chapter by chapter to see what it says. To know the whole council of God!
Now, Paul's statement would not make much sense if he left any part of those apocryphal books out. And Paul says he gave them the entire council of God, meaning nothing left out.
However, in all of Paul's writings, he never once quoted from any of those books. None of the apostles did either.
Plus, not once did Jesus ever quote from any of those books. It would seem that if they were inspired, Paul would have taught from them.
Perhaps there might be some valuable historical information in these books, but are the truly inspired by God?
This seems to be a post meant for contentious purposes.
How did this get past the moderators?
the early church fathers who were slave owners btw had no business removing these books out of the bible and lied and said they were not inspired.
God revealed to me these are his words.
after death,: Matthew 17:1-3, Luke 7:12-16, Luke 8:49-56, John 11:21-45, Matthew 27:50-54, Luke 16:22-31, John 21:14, Acts 3:15, Acts 4:10, Mark 12:25,26,27, Luke 24:46, John 5:12, John 5:25, 1 Peter 1:3, 1 Peter 2:24, 1 Peter 4:5, Revelation 1:5, Revelation 1:18, Revelation 14:9-20, 1 Corinthians 15:20,21, 2 Timothy 4:1, 1 Thessalonians 4:16, 1 Thessalonians 1:10, Matthew 25:31-46, Romans 14:9, Matthew 22:32, Isaiah 26:19,
Hebrews 11:35, Revelation 20, 2 Esdras 2:16, Hebrews 6:2, Hebrews 9:14, Hebrews 11:4, Hebrews 13:20, Revelation 11:18,
Hopefully these are helpful.
Flee the shadow of this world, receive the joyfulness of your glory: I testify my Saviour openly.
O receive the gift that is given you, and be glad, giving thanks unto him that hath led you to the Heavenly Kingdom.
Arise up and stand, behold the number of those that be sealed in the feast of the Lord;
Which are departed from the shadow of the world, and have received glorious garments of the Lord.
Take thy number, O Sion, and shut up those of thine that are clothed in white, which have fulfilled the law of the Lord.
The number of thy children, whom thou longedst for, is fulfilled: beseech the power of the Lord, that thy people, which have been called from the beginning, may be hallowed.
I Esdras saw upon the mount Sion a great people, whom I could not number, and they all praised the Lord with songs.
And in the midst of them there was a young Man of a high stature, taller than all the rest, and upon every one of their heads He set crowns, and was more exalted; which I marvelled at greatly.
So I asked the angel, and said, Sir, what are these?
He answered and said unto me, These be they that have put off the mortal clothing, and put on the immortal, and have confessed the name of God: now are they crowned, and receive palms.
Then said I unto the angel, What young person is it that crowneth them, and giveth them palms in their hands?
So he answered and said unto me, It is the Son of God, whom they have confessed in the world. Then began I greatly to commend them that stood so stiffly for the name of the Lord.
You want to explain these statutes? Leviticus 22:10-13, Deuteronomy 21:10-14, & Deuteronomy 23:7-8
I think you have not read yet 2 Ezra which is 2 Esdras in the apocrypha. After reading Ezra, 1 Esdras, and Esther (both books and in order) then you need to read 2 Esdras. God did not answer them, he was not with them, he never responded to Nehemiah's cry for Him to come and dwell with them, yet there was no answer. They were never saved from captivity by going back to the land trying to rebuild a house to the Lord. They rebelled against his captivity and he tells Ezra to tell the people there that they need to go their way (2 Esdras 1:4-9). They thought the burden of the Lord (the reason he didn't come) was because of the stranger wives ( Jeremiah 23:25-40 & Lamentations 2:14). So they put them and their children away. They were wrong. Listen to the prophets he proclaimed came from him (2 Esdras 1:38-39). 2 Esdras 2:1-17, 2 Esdras 2:33-48, 2 Esdras 3:23-4:2, 2 Esdras 5:16-19, 2 Esdras 6:57-59, Psalm 127:1. Either be in captivity still or seek the Lord with all your heart and soul and He will release unto you the wisdom and understanding of His word through your spirit. 2 Chronicles 6:29-33, Ezekiel 47:21-33, Isaiah 56:1-8, etc. etc. there is so much more... Christ comes in the full volume of the book, do not add nor take away. Cherry picking scriptures is of the false teachers who have come to deceive and the Word of God is not in them.
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