As per my usual process; I am deliberately NOT including names of individuals; although famous preachers with particular peculiarities aren't that hard to surmise. It is the characteristics of the tactics used which I am attempting to explore; but I am certainly no expert on the matter.
We are reminded of 2 Peter 2:3 which reads
"And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not."
The classic method; it seems for prioritizing regular giving is putting people under a "tithe" approach; something which from my study isn't emphasized in the New Testament. Considering this discipline for weekly offerings or better said "collections" ( 1 Cor. 16:1 and other scriptures) gleaning from a working income certainly is reasonable if we have basic needs already met with our income. Most don't consider how hypocritical it is to rob from widows and orphans in order to build "seed money" to borrow a common phrase used by these charlatans for the "cause of Christ" and to enrich others who probably would do better giving directly to the poor rather than these "ministries" whose accounting is questionable to say the least. We have indeed progressed from the old "shell game" to more sophisticated tactics today; I'll probably explore common tactics later on. But I digress...
We can't ignore either the Catholic church and the large wealth amassed in the Vatican after centuries of acquisitions; or the machinations involved with the Protestants; at least King Henry VIII but also encompassing all the grandiose cathedrals and opulence we see especially in European history. At that time the money was fairly locked up with the aristocracy or establishment; and it would have been illogical to preach a prosperity message to the masses living in squalor.
Next I will explore what I consider the two primary origins of this phenomenon.
Section 1: Primary themes of scripture and primary applications
A child could probably read a section of the Bible and learn fairly easily about David and Goliath; Noah's Ark; and major characters in scripture as well as basic scriptures about Christ. We can make two errors related to this topic; the first finding nothing of meaning to us as 21st Century citizens of the USA or other modern civilizations or the opposite-thinking every verse somehow applies to us. Without disputing the 2 Timothy 3:16 concept; we simply cannot find a way to directly relate to David's story fighting a giant or any other incidents involving the genetically mutated offspring of Nephilim; nor can we relate to a command to destroy all men; women; children and cattle in a wartime situation today. In these cases; of course we can apply principles such as obedience being better than sacrifice ( 1 Samuel 15:22) as well as understanding the spiritual dimension which still exists today; even with certain entities already chained in the abyss ( 2 Peter 2:4) being a past event. Still other passages may discuss ceremonial laws which have no practical moral application but would keep an individual out of being part of Israel in the Old Testament times; when certain other Sabbath rules were strictly enforced to the point of death ( Numbers 15:32-36). We also are forced to deal with certain passages such as Deuteronomy 24 and later commentary by Christ in Matthew 5 and 19 which trumpet what Moses permitted due to hardness of hearts but apparently wasn't God's will in the beginning and therefore not "commanded" as the Pharisees presented their arguments in these passages to permit divorce.
In short; I would say that primary themes help tell the story of God's master plan; or, as Navigator's states in the concept Dawson Trotman states "to know Christ and to make Him known." The exclusivity of Christ in such passages as John 3:16 show how to be saved
Verses 10-12 state: And the LORD said unto Joshua, Get thee up; wherefore liest thou thus upon thy face? 11Israel hath sinned, and they have also transgressed my covenant which I commanded them: for they have even taken of the accursed thing, and have also stolen, and dissembled also, and they have put it even among their own stuff. 12Therefore the children of Israel could not stand before their enemies, but turned their backs before their enemies, because they were accursed: neither will I be with you any more, except ye destroy the accursed from among you.
This passage illustrates the reaction of Joshua after they were routed in battle. Joshua lamely states that it would have been better to not have entered where they were than to be routed by the Amorites. He ignores promises 400 years prior about the fullness of the iniquity of the Amorites; but is totally blind to the REASON for the event; which boiled down to one person coveting gold and other things which were cursed objects somehow tied into the demonic realm that were; as the rest of the populus to be devoted unto destruction. Joshua 6:18 warns about such behavior; and Achan was the individual responsible and was summarily stoned afterwards; followed by victory on the battlefield. They should have learned from what happened with Korah's rebellion in Numbers 16:32 when they were swallowed up by the earth after trying to usurp the role of Priesthood that Moses had. We see in both these passages that unless the sin was dealt with the entire people would be destroyed.
In today's New Testament church we see Ananias and Sapphira in the same sort of swift judgment in Acts 5. Normally; of course our first priority has to be our own sin but we have to guard not only our own hearts but watch out for the "enemy in the camp" which today often involves "damnable heresies" ( 2 Peter 2:1); also see 1 Timothy 4:1 on last days false teaching.
Romans 2:9 states: There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile..
(NIV); but says tribulation and anguish in the KJV. There is another verse stating that judgment begins at the house of God. ( 1 Peter 4:17).
Just as not all Israel is Israel ( Romans 9:6); not all the "professing" church is the possessing church; that is possessing the Holy Spirit and true salvation. Jesus made that perfectly clear to those who thought because they were the physical descendants of Abraham that gave them some sort of benefit were sadly mistaken ( John 8:39-44). Those who had seen Christ; knew the prophecies about the Messiah and yet rejected Him would in fact be worse off than Sodom and Gomorrah in their punishment. ( Matt. 11:21-24). We see similar warnings for those who have knowledge of the truth and become reprobate; in that it would be better not to have known it in the first place ( 2 Peter 2:21).
Testing ourselves to see if we are in the faith is sadly lacking today among professing believers; or we would see a reality check in the fruits of many lives. ( 2 Corinthians 13:5). We can glibly see this example as a carnal bunch of people and think that being steeped in our own religious training or theology that we are automatically exempt from this test. I have said before that there are dangers in any extreme that is lacking the balancing attribute; such as with loving people and warning them of judgment to come ( John 16:8). We see in the Ephesian church everything being done properly but their first love somehow becoming distant in their hearts. Look at 1 Corinthians 13:6; love rejoices in the truth. The basic fact that man's heart is desperately wicked ( Jeremiah 17:9) and that our sin makes us enemies of God ( James 4:4) means that there is a wall between opposing parties and yes God is angry with the wicked (i.e. us) every day. ( Psalm 7:11). Having our heads in the sand doesn't help anyone.
Necessary doctrines: Fulfilling the Great Commission
In Matthew 25; starting in verse 14 we see the Parable of the talents. The first two individuals are rewarded with eternal rewards far greater than invested in this life but in accordance to their faithfulness now. The last servant of course lost it all including apparently his soul. There is a slightly different viewpoint in the parallel Parable in Luke 19 where reward is lost; but it would appear hell would be for those who wouldn't have Christ rule over them which is mentioned after the example of this servant at the end of the Parable. Either way; Jesus made it clear that we are commanded to go out and spread the Good News of the Gospel. A true believer therefore is in danger of losing rewards in heaven; making it in through the "skin of their teeth" ( 1 Cor. 3:15); while a professing Christian may not even be saved if they are not recognized by Christ as a true believer as we see in the Parable of the 5 unwise virgins. We see a similar pattern in the admonition that anyone who teaches others to break one of the "least commandments" ( Matthew 5:19) will be the least in heaven (i.e. loss of rewards). This makes one consider what happens for a greater commandment and how that is defined. This would be of course a "damnable heresy" ( 2 Peter 2:1) and clearly indicates damnation for such individuals in hell.
The great difficulty we have here is if we try to define what is necessary doctrine or unnecessary is that all of scripture is connected so that we are in danger of "cherry picking" what we want to follow rather than what is needed. We also have to look at the attitude of the heart. In the tale of Ananias and Sapphira; it is often overlooked that the problem was not that only a portion of what was sold was brought to the church offering; but that they had lied about their commitment or vow that was made to give all. The other issue is what people say is hard to understand. More to come..
There is a lot of evil in this world, fallen angels, demons, evil people, and the head honcho Satan the devil. As we see in 2 Corinthians 11:13-15 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
They make merchandise of those who fall into their deception, 2 Peter 2:3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not. They look up to heaven and see all the stars are 20-dollar bills, the love of money is so powerful, that many cannot resist.
Does God allow it? Since it is so prevalent, I am sure God has His reasons, but we do not see the result. Deuteronomy 18:20 and Matthew 18:6 and many more their punishment will be great. We are to go humbly and in prayer to the Bible with open ears and trust God through the Holy Spirit for the truth and share it in how we are led.
Their intentions only God knows, God will allow us to choose the road of this world, filled with riches but we know all the wealth of this world is filth compared to the true riches we have in Christ, that the narrow rocky road leads to. As Jesus said take heed that no man deceive you.
If I may add a few points to this subject, I know we have different understandings on this and I hope you will not be offended, these are questions I have asked myself. What does Scripture support, our soul is an immortal entity that consciously lives on after the death of the body or does it sleep in the grave until the resurrection? Is the definition of death a separation of the soul from the body or is it the end of life, a permanent cessation, and the grave is our home until we are resurrected?
John 3:15-16 Without the belief in Jesus we will perish the Greek word apollumi means destroy utterly, to put out of the way entirely, abolish as in Psalms 37:10Psalms 92:7Proverbs 10:28-29Job 20:4-7Malachi 4:1-32 Peter 2:12.
Matthew 10:28 we are to fear the one who can destroy the body and the soul in hell, the Greek word for destroy is apollumi same as perish, a permanent/absolute destruction. Hell, the Greek word is geenna the fire and smoke that goes up and burns forever that never goes out is a reference to the lake of fire. Job 17:13 the Hebrew word sheol is the same word translated as hell. Job 17:16 the word pit is the same Hebrew word.
Our first death is sleep, Psalms 13:3Daniel 12:2Acts 13:361 Cor. 15:51. If all souls are immortal which means they have eternal life, the question must be asked, what is the gift of eternal life we see in John 3:15John 6:54Romans 6:23Titus 1:21 John 2:25Jude 1:21? If our soul is immortal, why do we have to put immortality on as said in 1 Corinthians 15:51-58?
Truth mixed with falsehood (part 2 of introduction outline).
Continuing with my first outline there is a #3 issue. That is not being fully persuaded that the Bible is the inerrant Word of God. This results in various sinful results. We are assured that he who teaches one error and practices it will be the least in the Kingdom of God ( Matt. 5:19). There are more serious issues such as what would be categorized as "damnable heresies" ( 2 Peter 2:1) so this isn't something to trifle with.
One thing that contributes to this scriptural mindset are poor translations of scripture; which can involve a few issues or be wanton disregard to the clear meanings of all source texts in order to propagate teachings of cults.
A second issue is the leadership selling their own version of "snake oil" in order to facilitate preaching of some sort of "prosperity gospel" which no doubt is cultlike in placing undue emphasis on the charisma of the teacher or ministry as opposed to a balanced church as mandated in the scriptures. Lack of church discipline for pastors and laypersons alike often results; and other times of course legalism can occur; sometimes even alongside the first error. Scripture should never be used to push an agenda that diverts attention from the Great Commission and other key commands; nor should it promote lawlessness or "cheap grace."
The third issue; often tied in with the others mentioned here is other writings being put on too high a pedestal or revered as somehow being worthy of worship or even worth considering from other religions. This can be as innocuous as obsessing on a classic such as "Pilgrim's Progress" or other worthy Christian fiction at the expense of purely studying scriptures to widespread error from espousing some New Age concept and especially Christ being presented as a great teacher and such which those of other religions would espouse apart from His Deity.
Usually some truth is retained which makes error more potent.
2 Peter 2:20. They had the knowledge of the Lord and Savior; they were saved and had escaped the pollutions/sins of the world. Can we escape sin outside of Christ? They choose to go back to a life of habitual, intentional, and willful sin. And their punishment will be worse, Luke 12:47-48.
Galatians 6:9 This to me is obedience, It says unless we faint, to me that is to give up, quit, intentionally turn away, we reap life everlasting. Colossians 1:23 "If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel". If we continue that is a choice, we must make that is not given that is our obedience.
Jude 1:21 We are to keep ourselves, the Holy Spirit helps us, but this is something we do and if we do, He will keep us from falling. 2 Peter 1:10 If we do, it is not done for us, we have been given but it is up to us to obey and do, if they have forgotten they had to know it to forget it. If We Do!!! we shall never fall. Hebrews 6:13-16 What Abraham did, in his faith, he waited for a long time he endured. He did not faint or grow weary or turn his back to God, the evidence of his faith, just like when he drew back the knife.
This is not about a Christian who is struggling and battling sin regardless of how long they struggle they are still in the race and if they repent and return in the light will be forgiven and in the grace of God. As David said restore unto me the joy of thy salvation, Psalms 51:12. We all are in a battle with our flesh and sin daily. We can lose the joy of salvation and if we come under repentance, we will still be in God's grace but without repentance, we will be cut off.
This section I will attempt to address those scriptures you presented suggesting one can lose his Salvation.
Hebrews 3:12-13.
Verse 12) Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
Well, if there is an evil heart of unbelief, and deceitfulness of sin. THEN YOU ARE NOT SAVED!
1 John 1:7.
Ronald, I don't grasp you here. This is not a verse saying you can lose Salvation.
"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, if we are in the light we are saved. If we are not in the light, we are not saved.
2 Peter 2:20.
Look at 2 Peter 2:22. These are dogs, NOT SONS! This is the same group described in the previous verses!
Take it from 2 Peter 2:9-20 to get the context.
Galatians 6:9.
Christians will go before the judgement seat of Christ to give an account for the things done in the flesh.
We are to keep sowing and in due season we will reap. this is the fruit of their labor.
He that soweth to the Spirit, sows to the spirit by the power of the Holyspirit.
Paul has just asked the Galatian Christians to be convinced, once again, that trusting their flesh in this life will only lead to corruption. Reliance on our own power only leads to death. That is true whether we trust human effort to save us by following the rituals and sacraments of the law, or by following our own selfish, sinful desires.
Salvation comes only by "planting" the Spirit. Through faith in Christ for the forgiveness of our sin.
God gives to us His own Spirit. Only that Spirit will deliver eternal life in the end.
Colossians 1:23.
Verses 21-22 states we have been reconciled In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
Jude 1:24. says "Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
So, those who is moved away from the faith was never saved.
This we must do for the rest of our lives, to live in repentance and obedience walking in the Spirit, not in this world. We must include these scriptures that show during our life and be sanctified one can fail, fall away whatever we want to call it, Heb. 3:12-131 John 1:72 Peter 2:20 we are told to keep ourselves Jude 21 If we hold fast the confidence, Heb. 3:6 If we faint not, Gal. 6:9 If ye continue in the faith, Col. 1:23 If ye do these things, 2 Peter 1:10, Paul said this about himself 1 Cor. 9:25-27.
Do we err when we say I was saved on whatever date when we should say my salvation started and I was justified made righteous, and I am now walking in the Spirit of God looking for the day I will be glorified when My Savior Jesus Christ returns and I will be like Him and as long as I breathe I will continue to walk in the Spirit of God as I am sanctified to be made perfect as My Lord Jesus is perfect? We must, every day be obedient and ask for forgiveness and guidance to keep going for the goal.
When are we saved is it when we accept Jesus as our Savior, if then do we overlook we must endure until the end. We must have the earnest/downpayment of the Spirit 2 Cor. 5:5, a downpayment for the final purchase when Jesus returns to claim His elect. We must know and realize that for whom the downpayment has been placed it must be intact when Jesus returns. We must endure until the end. Matt. 10:22Matt. 24:13John 6:27 As Abraham Heb. 6:13-16James 1:12
I wish I could explain this better; I feel I have come up short, but I feel those who believe when walking down the aisle and confess they believe in Jesus they have a nonrefundable ticket to eternity, that is wrong.
We cannot say Satan made me do it, we are responsible if we sin.
What is death? Is it just the body that dies and our conscious soul, lives on somewhere outside the body? This started when the serpent said to Eve, Ye shall not surely die, you will be as gods. Most pagan religions have an afterlife where the soul lives forever. In the Bible, the OT is the word Sheol meaning the grave and death was sleep with no knowledge or consciousness, nowhere is the immortal soul in the Bible.
When Adam and Eve sinned, they were taken out of the garden and forbidden eternal life/immortality from the Tree of Life, Gen. 3:24. When the OT was translated into Greek Sheol became Hades with the Greek meaning that came with it, and in English, it's Hell with the same Greek meaning, the soul separates from the body and the conscious souls goes to a place of the dead. Many believe there is either eternal life with Jesus or eternal damnation in Hell/lake of fire where they will be tormented for eternity.
If we say our soul is immortal, we are saying we are gods because we cannot die. But the Bible says without the gift of eternal life given to us in the resurrection we will die the second death, we will perish, be destroyed forever to be no more. Romans 6:23Psalms 37:10-13Psalms 92:7Proverbs 10:25, 29 John 3:162 Peter 2:10-12, they are mortal and will perish.
The unrighteous will be destroyed/perish, they will have their part in the lake of fire, Rev. 21:8. Their death is forever, not forever in torment. When we die our destiny is fixed, there is not a second chance after death. This adoption of the Greek philosophy of the immortal soul and Hades fogs our understanding, it plugs our ears that are to hear.
I could say more but I will leave it here, I hope you will study for the truth. We should empty our minds in prayer where we are open to the truth given by the Spirit of Truth, not led by the traditions of men, Colossians 2:8.
Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth. ( John 9:41).
In the Old Testament we see the mad Prophet Balaam stopped by a donkey who God readily used to block his way and for a mouthpiece of rebuke. ( 2 Peter 2:16-18 as quoted in the N.T. from Numbers 22-24). We see also how the demons Jesus cast out knew who Jesus was ( Mark 3:11-12). This is somewhat understandable from the fact that the angels were there to see God in heaven and witness the creation of the earth ( Job 38:7).
We are warned in James 2:19 about not just saying that we believe in God. The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom; this is quoted many times in scripture. The conscience of men can be seared after some time; hearts hardened ( 1 Tim. 4:2; Exodus 7:3 and subsequent verses with Pharaoh). A believer has a healthy awe based on God's Holiness; and without holiness no man can see God ( Heb. 12:14).
Only man could see the miracles of Christ and still remain in unbelief. That would not just be related to the physical miracles when on earth; but also the miracle of salvation which often was accompanied by deliverance in scripture but which we see today. Mercifully God forgives any sin against the Father or Son is forgivable ( Matt. 12:32); but against the Holy Spirit is not.
The Spirit demonstrates His Holiness amongst the ministry of John 16:8 warning the world of sin; righteousness and judgment to come. The opposite of a broken and contrite heart is pride and self righteousness (only the sick need a physician Matt. 9:12).
Therefore such Pharisitical people also make their own twisted judgments on right and wrong and condemn others based on that mindset.
May we read scripture for its true meaning not through any man centered agenda; respecting ALL of it as God's Word ( 2 Tim. 3:16). May we have a heart to always glean new truths from God; seeking His face daily ( Psalm 1:2
Thanks Jimbob. Our completely different understanding of those verses is clear, so others can decide as to what they speak of. But to your statement, "Most Bible-believing Christians see the New Testament as the prophecy, not the Old Testament as the prophecy", I guess I must be the odd-man out. I see the OT as the prophecy given & the NT as prophecy fulfilled, or yet to be fulfilled as the case may be.
Then to 2 Peter 2:19, "We have also a more sure word of prophecy". This word from Peter refers back to verses 16-18. Here, he affirms that what he is sharing about Jesus' Coming & Glory & also from his presence at Jesus' Transfiguration, were not the result of fables (maybe even from human imaginations), but his words to them were confirmation of the prophecies of old concerning Jesus. And this "sure word of prophecy" gave a double affirmation to his readers because he (Peter) was an immediate witness to Jesus' Life & Words, to His Glory & Power. So, the prophecy of Jesus was given in the OT, but Peter was a living witness to that prophecy, now fulfilled, having now a "sure word" to give them, to which they can't deny. So, I see no reference in this passage to "the Bible we have today". Blessings.
With reference to Isaiah 45:7 and your concerns regarding:
1. "I form the light, and create darkness"
2. "I make peace, and create evil" - my response is this.
The Bible reveals many 'opposites' (or contrasts) that exist in scripture, such as:
- Being HOLY or UNHOLY ( 1 Peter 1:16; Heb 12:14)
- Being SAVED or UNSAVED (or 'lost' - Romans 10:9-10; Matt 18:11)
- Walking in the SPIRIT or walking in the FLESH ( Rom 8:1; 2 Peter 2:10)
It is in this context that God created DARKNESS so that the LIGHT that He dwells in ( 1 Tim 6:15-1) has some comparison. It is the same principle regarding "peace" (a good life and the pursuit of happiness) and "evil" (meaning war, death and destruction) that God creates these things.
However, on a spiritual basis, LIGHT represents absolute TRUTH, whereas DARKNESS represents lies, deception, misinformation, etc.
"And this is the condemnation, that LIGHT [via the words of Christ and the Apostles] is come into the world, and [religious-based] men LOVED DARKNESS rather than LIGHT [or Bible-based truth], because their deeds [of corrupting God's word - 2 Cor 2:17] were EVIL." ( John 3:19).
As for God creating "EVIL" the same principle applies:
- Being GOOD or being EVIL ( Matt 19:17; John 3:20)
- Doing GOOD or doing EVIL ( Matt 5:44; 1 Peter 3:12)
The principles in Isa 45:7 therefore regulate what people attract on Earth from God according to this statement:
"Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth [by his actions - meaning, 'good' or 'evil' in this life], that shall he also reap [in the next life]. 8 For he that soweth to his flesh [or lusts in this life] shall of the flesh reap corruption [in Hell throughout eternity]; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap LIFE EVERLASTING [with God - IF all the conditions associated with Salvation are met]." ( Galatians 6:6-8)
Since I have some time to spare; and this probably won't be a high response posting; I'll make a few observations.
Noah was 600; and one could argue it is a typology of the 6000 years of the earth's existence before the Tribulation; followed by the 1000 years of the Millennium by 2 Peter 3:8.
In the time before the flood known as "Antidiluvian"; clearly men lived longer than afterwards. Thus; Adam and many of his progeny lived for 900 plus years; interestingly no one made it quite to 1000; which may be reserved to those who survive in the Millennium due to long life spans once again at that time with a paradise type of earth; albeit still with fallen men (see Isaiah 65:20). There was therefore the likelihood that many were only 2 or 3 generations from Adam by the time the flood came along; so that secondhand accounts of God's story of creation would leave wicked men without excuse. Enoch lived interestingly enough 365 years then was taken; perhaps somehow indicating a day symbolizing a year (although the old calendar was 360 days old); God also told Noah that He would only contend with men 120 years in Genesis 6:3 which could indicate their future lifespan limit; or the time left before the flood from that point.
In any case; God is longsuffering not wishing anyone to perish. ( 2 PEter 3:9). It is interesting that this verse is right after the one above that I quoted; and certainly explains why He waited so long to judge. Noah was a "preacher of righteousness" ( 2 Peter 2:5) but the narrative shows that only 8 were saved in the boat; and they were his immediate family. Sodom's destruction also followed a similar vein; in that case only Lot; his 2 daughters and wife came out of the city; and his wife turned back and was destroyed. In the flood; Nephilim would have contaminated man's bloodline as I see it from Genesis 6:9 that explains why no one else COULD be saved. His patience is seen with Sodom as well ( Gen. 18:32).
True Christ vs. Imaginary (further examination of confessors vs. possessors)
The parable of the wheat and the tares should be alarming to everyone; and necessary instruction. ( Matt. 13:24-30). It is said that the wheat and tares are indistinguishable from one another before they are fully ripened. It appears from this parable that God has His purposes for these two groups to remain until the end of the age. Most probably; this is testing for those who ARE true believers to ensure that they won't fall for the temptations of this world as well as false or compromised doctines as well as a lifestyle of sin. Again; our society in general doesn't seem to be finding too many newcomers to churches because of it is a novel practice; or the world is being turned upside down ( Acts 17:6) which were characteristic of the church in Apostolic times.
However; the "damnable heresies" ( 2 Peter 2:1) are increasing along with 1 Timothy 4:1-2; etc. are invading former solid denominations so that a person can have a sense of respectability and pride in church attendance that tells them what they want to hear. Part of this; of course is the result of decades of permissive society and decline of morals; both within and without the church walls; I have stated before no doubt that the destruction of marriages is what I consider to be the primary initial cause especially post World War 2 of what we see today.
A primary example here is how people look at 1 John 2:1-2 on confession of sin and forgiveness. While it is true that Christ's death took care of all sin; past and future; we still have to confess sin; and if someone has the Holy Spirit in them they cannot be content with sin ( Galatians 5:17). a LIFESTYLE of sin such as continual adultery; theft; fornication; and other actions means that ultimately we don't trust God as to His warnings such as in 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 as to reaping what we sow; and don't trust Him to be in the driver's seat in our lives and our souls.
Lot's wife never demonstrated saving faith from what scripture would indicate; at the very least desiring more to turn back to see the fate of the city doomed for destruction rather than to escape. "Righteous Lot" ( 2 Peter 2:7-8) was vexed every day; and clearly quite compromised in his dealings when he offered his daughters to the men who were trying to break down his door to commit abominations. No mention of his wife is in the scriptures; as was with Sarah; for instance in Hebrews 11.
Today in church it was discussed how Abraham was said to be the only one who was a "friend" of God ( James 2:23). Exodus 33:11 states the same of Moses as well so technically my Pastor erred. My point here I may expound on later; namely the fact that God truly spoke in a different manner to them than many others in the Bible. The friendship; in other words went both ways. The discussion also came up today in Sunday school on how He is both Master and friend. This is a mystery in itself; and forces us beyond stereotypical cultural viewpoints toward such a relationship. As for now; I will just state that Lot had to be "shoved" out of his town literally; and the angels had to put up with his ridiculous bantering about going to the nearby little town; which was promptly abandoned once Lot saw what happened and hid in the mountains. Abraham and Moses both had slow starts and their own issues; but were able to have close fellowship with the Lord as we see from Genesis 18:17 with Abraham and Exodus 32:30 where Moses acted to intercede to prevent God from destroying all of Israel. That scene is another discussion as to its theological implications.
We all should strive to be as the saints in the "hall of fame" in Hebrews 11; not stubborn like Jonah as an ox. Nonetheless these all are true believers. We CANNOT claim God's promises with an imaginary Christ or on other terms than scripture dictates and expect it to be true.
My previous posts have discussed the extreme of overly legalistic churches vs those who are overly emotional; in short. Within a certain context; it is often helpful when one can experience the joy of the Lord when expressed more openly in a different type of fellowship on occasion as well as those from more expressive congregants to be introduced or reestablished with fellowship in more traditional worship. There is room for correction in either case; one extreme has the warnings of the Ephesian church abandoning their first love in Revelation 2:4-5; while there are sufficient warnings not only for order as in the Corinthians church but against false doctrines and "damnable heresies" such as 2 Peter 2:1 mentions.
This discussion; to reiterate is considering a true fellowship of worship sort of example and the various styles; preferences or modes of worship that often are commonplace and overlap; as stated in the introduction based on general parameters in scripture but as we shall see often influenced by culture in a given nation more than we may observe after being immersed in such traditions for a long time. To fast forward to the big picture let's look to the supernatural realm; specifically related to the angels and demons; under the authority of Christ and Satan and what a service is like in that dimension concurrent to our actions inside a church service on earth. The test of doctrine; for example shows how to test the spirits as to which ones proclaim Jesus has come in the flesh as opposed to those who deny it ( 1 John 4:2). That may define falsehood; but it is equally true that a church can be dead and lose its "candlestick" ( Rev. 2:5) so that as the Ephesians did; have all the right words but lose any effective power for change.
Briefly; worship must contain the truth reflecting God's character and unchanging attributes as well as express worship with all of the soul; body and mind ( Deut. 6:4-7)
Luke 12:3 and Matthew 12:36 are eye opening; as we are to give account for everything said and nothing is secret to God.
I would like to say that I don't do any grumbling or complaining; but alas then I would be lying. Thankfully anything but blasphemy against the Spirit can be forgiven. As Jesus pointed out to the self-righteous Pharisees; these bad fruits come from within. And 2 Peter 2:21 makes it clear that it is better not to have known the truth than to become reprobate. The blood of Christ is our only hope as Jeremiah 17:9 shows how sick the heart is.
There are Post Millennialists who dispute this; but I don't believe anyone from the church age who is a believer will be at the Great White Throne Judgment. I DO have the opinion that since the verse indicates that those who aren't in the Book of Life are going to the lake of fire; there is room for those who physically survive the Millennial period to go through that as saved people and hence be translated into heaven without dying.
In any event; 1 Corinthians 3:15 indicates that one can make it into heaven and suffer loss. That would be analogous to losing rewards as Revelation 3:11 warns. Paul indicates how we run for the prize. Only a few gain great rewards; as would be indicated by those making 100 fold as opposed to 30 fold returns or others ( Mark 4:20). We should not be confined to just the saved and lost divisions when scripture gives us admonitions for certain crowns that those who persevere; are martyred or are pastors as well as other situations are given for faithfulness.
Matthew 6:19-21 shows us that our treasure is to be in heaven. And that means that He must trust us with earthly riches as well ( Luke 16:10-12) as a test; a prerequisite for heavenly riches. Our brothers in Christ that we support in the ministry will be able to enjoy the harvest with us (see John 4:37). That and personal witnessing are components of fulfilling the Great Commission to finish well.
Assurance of salvation (continued thoughts after interim sabbatical as it were)
In short; I am not sure if arguing all points against the subject is worth it; as it likely won't change any minds. I will submit that some issues are a reward issue; as not all are going to get the prize as in Paul's example; and there are scriptures such as Revelation 3:11 stating that we can lose rewards. The basic idea i that Christ must succeed in bringing all His children to glory as that is part of the Father's plan which cannot be thwarted.
As to another point; yes it is true I have heard from one friend of mine who is an evangelist how his own mother turned away from the faith the last few months of his life; and it is true that his mother in law heard the Gospel for many years during home Bible studies and still never came to saving faith. It is also true that judgment is harsher for those who become reprobate from the faith than those who never believed ( 2 Peter 2:21).
THere are also things related to groups of people which must be carefully interpreted as opposed to individuals. That can skew things in the subject of Predestination; for example or even for those such as I that believe in the 5 points more or less can misinterpret something isolated.
I plan to continue this series; and think verses that describe Christ dying for the sins of the whole world may be a good place to begin. After an extensive study in Hebrews on such apparent contraditions to my premise a couple years back I may go there next to explore some of the warnings there as well as the Gospels and being a branch cast into the fire.
Whatever happens; we all should be searching the scriptures daily as the Bereans did. We still should fear God; knowing He is not just Savior; but Lord; King and Master of us all. Learning His ways is the most important thing; not just a bunch of facts about Him. The Word is our instruction manual but unless taken to heart it won't change us.
If God did this, then He's not slumbering, and He's not delaying about His judgment. And this is interesting because it shows a past tense. God did not spare angels that sinned but cast them down to hell. The word for hell is TARTARUS. And it is the Greek version of the term for Hades, where the unseen spirits go, in a compartment waiting for judgment. It's the only place where it's found in the bible.
And so, he says that God in past, He cast these angels who sinned into TARTARUS, and delivered them into chains of darkness.
Now it's the darkness that is the chains. How do you take spirits and put chains on them? It's a phrase that associates locking someone up so that they cannot escape.
And to be reserved for judgment. So, if God did not spare the angels that sinned, how's He going to spare these that sinned?
We will find out more about these angels when we get into Jude Verse 6. It's a one-chapter book. Both Jude and Peter run along the same lines and minister the same thing. And the evidence provides for us that Peter used some of Jude's warnings in order to have a unanimous unifying warning to all the churches.
It's interesting, but in Jude Verse 6, when he talks about these same angels, he says these angels which kept not their first estate, that is, the angels that rebelled against God with Satan, but left their own habitation, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
So, these are angels who had sinned and had left their first estate. Many believe that these are the angels that brought on the evil that forced God to bring the flood, the demonic forces that are mentioned in Genesis Chapter 6.
But it is interesting that it is well known amongst the apostles and amongst the early church that there were angels who had sinned.
What does 2 Peter 2:4 means? If God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be remembered unto judgment; mean?
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. 2 Peter 2:1-2
That's something important to remember, especially for me. It tells me I shouldn't get so worked up.
The Bible is God's gift to us, a book of great multiplicity! It incorporates history, law, types and symbols, poetry, promises, devotion, doctrine, parables, and prophecy, the Message. The Bible is a collection of 66 books by about 40 authors over approximately 1600 years that were inspired by God (the word of God) that is now in almost all languages.
Is the entire Bible prophecy? No, about one-third of it is. Are many to most of them fulfilled? Yes. Can we find prophecies in Genesis? Yes. Can we see the meaning of the historical reality that can be archaeologically proven and still see the message of how God was working His plan starting with the first Adam? Yes. Is Jesus the spirit of prophecy? No, it is our testimony of Jesus that is the spirit of prophecy.
Were the people of Noah's time preached to? Yes. Some take this verse differently 1 Peter 3:18-20. My understanding the same Spirit that raised Jesus, through Noah preached redemption to the people for 120 years as he built the ark, 2 Peter 2:5 the flood took all the ungodly but the eight. Jesus did not while He was in the tomb preach to the dead, if that was the case why only those who died in the flood?
Angels are ministers but they do not preach the gospel they do not have a testimony because they do not understand it, 1 Peter 1:10-12. Regardless of the innovations in the world, it does not change and is not new, what was, is now, human nature has remained and always will remain the same.
We must be led by the Holy Spirit of truth. We must know all has not been revealed and all answers will not be given. We are responsible and we will be held accountable, Rev. 20:15. We can get lost in prophecies and parables our own wisdom can shade the truth for truth is simple to understand even for a child in faith.
Just in case you were looking at 2 Peter 2:22 & wanted the meaning of 'sow' in that verse, this refers to a hog or a boar, of the swine/pig family.
And in that chapter, the Apostle Peter was warning his Christian readers to beware of false prophets & false teachers who both taught & lived in contrary to what Jesus & the apostles taught. As Peter declared, "it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them" (v21). He likened such degenerate folk as the old proverb spoke about them, "The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire." Not a nice sight to behold - certainly not a nice people to be engaging with in any form.
"In the mouths of two or three witnesses every word shall be established."20 In Biblical matters, it is essential to always compare Scripture with Scripture. The New Testament confirmations in Jude and 2 Peter are impossible to ignore.21
For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell [Tartarus], and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly; 2 Peter 2:4-5
Peter's comments even establishes the time of the fall of these angels to the days of the Flood of Noah.
Even Peter's vocabulary is provocative. Peter uses the term Tartarus, here translated "hell." This is the only place that this Greek term appears in the Bible. Tartarus is a Greek term for "dark abode of woe"; "the pit of darkness in the unseen world." As used in Homer's Iliad, it is "...as far beneath hades as the earth is below heaven."22 In Greek mythology, some of the demigods, Chronos and the rebel Titans, were said to have rebelled against their father, Uranus, and after a prolonged contest they were defeated by Zeus and were condemned into Tartarus.
The Epistle of Jude23 also alludes to the strange episodes when these "alien" creatures intruded themselves into the human reproductive process:
And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Jude 6,7
This is a tough scripture, the sons of God and the daughters of men. Some consider the sons of God to be the line of Seth and the daughters of men the line of Cain. Then if we throw in what Jesus said in Matt. 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven, wow.
There is no need for angels in heaven to marry, they are immortal, and no need to reproduce as we will be after the resurrection in the kingdom on the new earth. Angels are called sons of God in Hebrew b'nai Elohim in Job 1:6Job 2:1Job 38:7.
Through scripture angels take on human form, they eat and drink Gen. 18:7-8Gen. 19:3 and physically wrestle with man, Gen. 32:24. If they eat and drink would that mean they have all the organs of man on earth? Scripture tells us there are devils/demons and fallen angels on earth along with Satan but there is another group of angels. These angels are different, they are locked in chains of darkness in the bottomless pit until judgment. 2 Peter 2:4-7 Jude 1:6-7. We see in Rev. 9:11 this pit has a king, and this is where Satan will be locked up for 1000 years.
They left their first estate, heaven and in 2 Peter and Jude it says making them an example, (going after strange flesh), they corrupted God's creation Gen. 6:5-7. Even though there are fallen angels roaming the earth this set of angels God made an example to the others they will be locked in chains of darkness until judgment. We see the devils in Mark 5:9-10 were in fear Jesus might cast them down to the bottomless pit.
We see that this happened again after the flood, Gen. 6:4 "and also after." The description in scripture is clear these are not just tall people. 2 Samuel 21:16Joshua 12:4Numbers 13:33Deuteronomy 2:19-21Deuteronomy 20:17Amos 2:9. This is just a small amount of information but may it will help in your study.
As per my usual process; I am deliberately NOT including names of individuals; although famous preachers with particular peculiarities aren't that hard to surmise. It is the characteristics of the tactics used which I am attempting to explore; but I am certainly no expert on the matter.
We are reminded of 2 Peter 2:3 which reads
"And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not."
The classic method; it seems for prioritizing regular giving is putting people under a "tithe" approach; something which from my study isn't emphasized in the New Testament. Considering this discipline for weekly offerings or better said "collections" ( 1 Cor. 16:1 and other scriptures) gleaning from a working income certainly is reasonable if we have basic needs already met with our income. Most don't consider how hypocritical it is to rob from widows and orphans in order to build "seed money" to borrow a common phrase used by these charlatans for the "cause of Christ" and to enrich others who probably would do better giving directly to the poor rather than these "ministries" whose accounting is questionable to say the least. We have indeed progressed from the old "shell game" to more sophisticated tactics today; I'll probably explore common tactics later on. But I digress...
We can't ignore either the Catholic church and the large wealth amassed in the Vatican after centuries of acquisitions; or the machinations involved with the Protestants; at least King Henry VIII but also encompassing all the grandiose cathedrals and opulence we see especially in European history. At that time the money was fairly locked up with the aristocracy or establishment; and it would have been illogical to preach a prosperity message to the masses living in squalor.
Next I will explore what I consider the two primary origins of this phenomenon.
Section 1: Primary themes of scripture and primary applications
A child could probably read a section of the Bible and learn fairly easily about David and Goliath; Noah's Ark; and major characters in scripture as well as basic scriptures about Christ. We can make two errors related to this topic; the first finding nothing of meaning to us as 21st Century citizens of the USA or other modern civilizations or the opposite-thinking every verse somehow applies to us. Without disputing the 2 Timothy 3:16 concept; we simply cannot find a way to directly relate to David's story fighting a giant or any other incidents involving the genetically mutated offspring of Nephilim; nor can we relate to a command to destroy all men; women; children and cattle in a wartime situation today. In these cases; of course we can apply principles such as obedience being better than sacrifice ( 1 Samuel 15:22) as well as understanding the spiritual dimension which still exists today; even with certain entities already chained in the abyss ( 2 Peter 2:4) being a past event. Still other passages may discuss ceremonial laws which have no practical moral application but would keep an individual out of being part of Israel in the Old Testament times; when certain other Sabbath rules were strictly enforced to the point of death ( Numbers 15:32-36). We also are forced to deal with certain passages such as Deuteronomy 24 and later commentary by Christ in Matthew 5 and 19 which trumpet what Moses permitted due to hardness of hearts but apparently wasn't God's will in the beginning and therefore not "commanded" as the Pharisees presented their arguments in these passages to permit divorce.
In short; I would say that primary themes help tell the story of God's master plan; or, as Navigator's states in the concept Dawson Trotman states "to know Christ and to make Him known." The exclusivity of Christ in such passages as John 3:16 show how to be saved
Verses 10-12 state: And the LORD said unto Joshua, Get thee up; wherefore liest thou thus upon thy face? 11Israel hath sinned, and they have also transgressed my covenant which I commanded them: for they have even taken of the accursed thing, and have also stolen, and dissembled also, and they have put it even among their own stuff. 12Therefore the children of Israel could not stand before their enemies, but turned their backs before their enemies, because they were accursed: neither will I be with you any more, except ye destroy the accursed from among you.
This passage illustrates the reaction of Joshua after they were routed in battle. Joshua lamely states that it would have been better to not have entered where they were than to be routed by the Amorites. He ignores promises 400 years prior about the fullness of the iniquity of the Amorites; but is totally blind to the REASON for the event; which boiled down to one person coveting gold and other things which were cursed objects somehow tied into the demonic realm that were; as the rest of the populus to be devoted unto destruction. Joshua 6:18 warns about such behavior; and Achan was the individual responsible and was summarily stoned afterwards; followed by victory on the battlefield. They should have learned from what happened with Korah's rebellion in Numbers 16:32 when they were swallowed up by the earth after trying to usurp the role of Priesthood that Moses had. We see in both these passages that unless the sin was dealt with the entire people would be destroyed.
In today's New Testament church we see Ananias and Sapphira in the same sort of swift judgment in Acts 5. Normally; of course our first priority has to be our own sin but we have to guard not only our own hearts but watch out for the "enemy in the camp" which today often involves "damnable heresies" ( 2 Peter 2:1); also see 1 Timothy 4:1 on last days false teaching.
See Romans 12:19 on God's vengeance.
(NIV); but says tribulation and anguish in the KJV. There is another verse stating that judgment begins at the house of God. ( 1 Peter 4:17).
Just as not all Israel is Israel ( Romans 9:6); not all the "professing" church is the possessing church; that is possessing the Holy Spirit and true salvation. Jesus made that perfectly clear to those who thought because they were the physical descendants of Abraham that gave them some sort of benefit were sadly mistaken ( John 8:39-44). Those who had seen Christ; knew the prophecies about the Messiah and yet rejected Him would in fact be worse off than Sodom and Gomorrah in their punishment. ( Matt. 11:21-24). We see similar warnings for those who have knowledge of the truth and become reprobate; in that it would be better not to have known it in the first place ( 2 Peter 2:21).
Testing ourselves to see if we are in the faith is sadly lacking today among professing believers; or we would see a reality check in the fruits of many lives. ( 2 Corinthians 13:5). We can glibly see this example as a carnal bunch of people and think that being steeped in our own religious training or theology that we are automatically exempt from this test. I have said before that there are dangers in any extreme that is lacking the balancing attribute; such as with loving people and warning them of judgment to come ( John 16:8). We see in the Ephesian church everything being done properly but their first love somehow becoming distant in their hearts. Look at 1 Corinthians 13:6; love rejoices in the truth. The basic fact that man's heart is desperately wicked ( Jeremiah 17:9) and that our sin makes us enemies of God ( James 4:4) means that there is a wall between opposing parties and yes God is angry with the wicked (i.e. us) every day. ( Psalm 7:11). Having our heads in the sand doesn't help anyone.
In Matthew 25; starting in verse 14 we see the Parable of the talents. The first two individuals are rewarded with eternal rewards far greater than invested in this life but in accordance to their faithfulness now. The last servant of course lost it all including apparently his soul. There is a slightly different viewpoint in the parallel Parable in Luke 19 where reward is lost; but it would appear hell would be for those who wouldn't have Christ rule over them which is mentioned after the example of this servant at the end of the Parable. Either way; Jesus made it clear that we are commanded to go out and spread the Good News of the Gospel. A true believer therefore is in danger of losing rewards in heaven; making it in through the "skin of their teeth" ( 1 Cor. 3:15); while a professing Christian may not even be saved if they are not recognized by Christ as a true believer as we see in the Parable of the 5 unwise virgins. We see a similar pattern in the admonition that anyone who teaches others to break one of the "least commandments" ( Matthew 5:19) will be the least in heaven (i.e. loss of rewards). This makes one consider what happens for a greater commandment and how that is defined. This would be of course a "damnable heresy" ( 2 Peter 2:1) and clearly indicates damnation for such individuals in hell.
The great difficulty we have here is if we try to define what is necessary doctrine or unnecessary is that all of scripture is connected so that we are in danger of "cherry picking" what we want to follow rather than what is needed. We also have to look at the attitude of the heart. In the tale of Ananias and Sapphira; it is often overlooked that the problem was not that only a portion of what was sold was brought to the church offering; but that they had lied about their commitment or vow that was made to give all. The other issue is what people say is hard to understand. More to come..
There is a lot of evil in this world, fallen angels, demons, evil people, and the head honcho Satan the devil. As we see in 2 Corinthians 11:13-15 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
They make merchandise of those who fall into their deception, 2 Peter 2:3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not. They look up to heaven and see all the stars are 20-dollar bills, the love of money is so powerful, that many cannot resist.
Does God allow it? Since it is so prevalent, I am sure God has His reasons, but we do not see the result. Deuteronomy 18:20 and Matthew 18:6 and many more their punishment will be great. We are to go humbly and in prayer to the Bible with open ears and trust God through the Holy Spirit for the truth and share it in how we are led.
Their intentions only God knows, God will allow us to choose the road of this world, filled with riches but we know all the wealth of this world is filth compared to the true riches we have in Christ, that the narrow rocky road leads to. As Jesus said take heed that no man deceive you.
God bless,
RLW
Part 1
If I may add a few points to this subject, I know we have different understandings on this and I hope you will not be offended, these are questions I have asked myself. What does Scripture support, our soul is an immortal entity that consciously lives on after the death of the body or does it sleep in the grave until the resurrection? Is the definition of death a separation of the soul from the body or is it the end of life, a permanent cessation, and the grave is our home until we are resurrected?
John 3:15-16 Without the belief in Jesus we will perish the Greek word apollumi means destroy utterly, to put out of the way entirely, abolish as in Psalms 37:10 Psalms 92:7 Proverbs 10:28-29 Job 20:4-7 Malachi 4:1-3 2 Peter 2:12.
Matthew 10:28 we are to fear the one who can destroy the body and the soul in hell, the Greek word for destroy is apollumi same as perish, a permanent/absolute destruction. Hell, the Greek word is geenna the fire and smoke that goes up and burns forever that never goes out is a reference to the lake of fire. Job 17:13 the Hebrew word sheol is the same word translated as hell. Job 17:16 the word pit is the same Hebrew word.
Our first death is sleep, Psalms 13:3 Daniel 12:2 Acts 13:36 1 Cor. 15:51. If all souls are immortal which means they have eternal life, the question must be asked, what is the gift of eternal life we see in John 3:15 John 6:54 Romans 6:23 Titus 1:2 1 John 2:25 Jude 1:21? If our soul is immortal, why do we have to put immortality on as said in 1 Corinthians 15:51-58?
See part 2
Continuing with my first outline there is a #3 issue. That is not being fully persuaded that the Bible is the inerrant Word of God. This results in various sinful results. We are assured that he who teaches one error and practices it will be the least in the Kingdom of God ( Matt. 5:19). There are more serious issues such as what would be categorized as "damnable heresies" ( 2 Peter 2:1) so this isn't something to trifle with.
One thing that contributes to this scriptural mindset are poor translations of scripture; which can involve a few issues or be wanton disregard to the clear meanings of all source texts in order to propagate teachings of cults.
A second issue is the leadership selling their own version of "snake oil" in order to facilitate preaching of some sort of "prosperity gospel" which no doubt is cultlike in placing undue emphasis on the charisma of the teacher or ministry as opposed to a balanced church as mandated in the scriptures. Lack of church discipline for pastors and laypersons alike often results; and other times of course legalism can occur; sometimes even alongside the first error. Scripture should never be used to push an agenda that diverts attention from the Great Commission and other key commands; nor should it promote lawlessness or "cheap grace."
The third issue; often tied in with the others mentioned here is other writings being put on too high a pedestal or revered as somehow being worthy of worship or even worth considering from other religions. This can be as innocuous as obsessing on a classic such as "Pilgrim's Progress" or other worthy Christian fiction at the expense of purely studying scriptures to widespread error from espousing some New Age concept and especially Christ being presented as a great teacher and such which those of other religions would espouse apart from His Deity.
Usually some truth is retained which makes error more potent.
Part four,
2 Peter 2:20. They had the knowledge of the Lord and Savior; they were saved and had escaped the pollutions/sins of the world. Can we escape sin outside of Christ? They choose to go back to a life of habitual, intentional, and willful sin. And their punishment will be worse, Luke 12:47-48.
Galatians 6:9 This to me is obedience, It says unless we faint, to me that is to give up, quit, intentionally turn away, we reap life everlasting. Colossians 1:23 "If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel". If we continue that is a choice, we must make that is not given that is our obedience.
Jude 1:21 We are to keep ourselves, the Holy Spirit helps us, but this is something we do and if we do, He will keep us from falling. 2 Peter 1:10 If we do, it is not done for us, we have been given but it is up to us to obey and do, if they have forgotten they had to know it to forget it. If We Do!!! we shall never fall. Hebrews 6:13-16 What Abraham did, in his faith, he waited for a long time he endured. He did not faint or grow weary or turn his back to God, the evidence of his faith, just like when he drew back the knife.
This is not about a Christian who is struggling and battling sin regardless of how long they struggle they are still in the race and if they repent and return in the light will be forgiven and in the grace of God. As David said restore unto me the joy of thy salvation, Psalms 51:12. We all are in a battle with our flesh and sin daily. We can lose the joy of salvation and if we come under repentance, we will still be in God's grace but without repentance, we will be cut off.
See part 5.
Part 6.
This section I will attempt to address those scriptures you presented suggesting one can lose his Salvation.
Hebrews 3:12-13.
Verse 12) Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
Well, if there is an evil heart of unbelief, and deceitfulness of sin. THEN YOU ARE NOT SAVED!
1 John 1:7.
Ronald, I don't grasp you here. This is not a verse saying you can lose Salvation.
"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, if we are in the light we are saved. If we are not in the light, we are not saved.
2 Peter 2:20.
Look at 2 Peter 2:22. These are dogs, NOT SONS! This is the same group described in the previous verses!
Take it from 2 Peter 2:9-20 to get the context.
Galatians 6:9.
Christians will go before the judgement seat of Christ to give an account for the things done in the flesh.
We are to keep sowing and in due season we will reap. this is the fruit of their labor.
He that soweth to the Spirit, sows to the spirit by the power of the Holyspirit.
Paul has just asked the Galatian Christians to be convinced, once again, that trusting their flesh in this life will only lead to corruption. Reliance on our own power only leads to death. That is true whether we trust human effort to save us by following the rituals and sacraments of the law, or by following our own selfish, sinful desires.
Salvation comes only by "planting" the Spirit. Through faith in Christ for the forgiveness of our sin.
God gives to us His own Spirit. Only that Spirit will deliver eternal life in the end.
Colossians 1:23.
Verses 21-22 states we have been reconciled In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
Jude 1:24. says "Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
So, those who is moved away from the faith was never saved.
See Part 7.
Part 2
This we must do for the rest of our lives, to live in repentance and obedience walking in the Spirit, not in this world. We must include these scriptures that show during our life and be sanctified one can fail, fall away whatever we want to call it, Heb. 3:12-13 1 John 1:7 2 Peter 2:20 we are told to keep ourselves Jude 21 If we hold fast the confidence, Heb. 3:6 If we faint not, Gal. 6:9 If ye continue in the faith, Col. 1:23 If ye do these things, 2 Peter 1:10, Paul said this about himself 1 Cor. 9:25-27.
Do we err when we say I was saved on whatever date when we should say my salvation started and I was justified made righteous, and I am now walking in the Spirit of God looking for the day I will be glorified when My Savior Jesus Christ returns and I will be like Him and as long as I breathe I will continue to walk in the Spirit of God as I am sanctified to be made perfect as My Lord Jesus is perfect? We must, every day be obedient and ask for forgiveness and guidance to keep going for the goal.
When are we saved is it when we accept Jesus as our Savior, if then do we overlook we must endure until the end. We must have the earnest/downpayment of the Spirit 2 Cor. 5:5, a downpayment for the final purchase when Jesus returns to claim His elect. We must know and realize that for whom the downpayment has been placed it must be intact when Jesus returns. We must endure until the end. Matt. 10:22 Matt. 24:13 John 6:27 As Abraham Heb. 6:13-16 James 1:12
I wish I could explain this better; I feel I have come up short, but I feel those who believe when walking down the aisle and confess they believe in Jesus they have a nonrefundable ticket to eternity, that is wrong.
God bless,
RLW
We cannot say Satan made me do it, we are responsible if we sin.
What is death? Is it just the body that dies and our conscious soul, lives on somewhere outside the body? This started when the serpent said to Eve, Ye shall not surely die, you will be as gods. Most pagan religions have an afterlife where the soul lives forever. In the Bible, the OT is the word Sheol meaning the grave and death was sleep with no knowledge or consciousness, nowhere is the immortal soul in the Bible.
When Adam and Eve sinned, they were taken out of the garden and forbidden eternal life/immortality from the Tree of Life, Gen. 3:24. When the OT was translated into Greek Sheol became Hades with the Greek meaning that came with it, and in English, it's Hell with the same Greek meaning, the soul separates from the body and the conscious souls goes to a place of the dead. Many believe there is either eternal life with Jesus or eternal damnation in Hell/lake of fire where they will be tormented for eternity.
If we say our soul is immortal, we are saying we are gods because we cannot die. But the Bible says without the gift of eternal life given to us in the resurrection we will die the second death, we will perish, be destroyed forever to be no more. Romans 6:23 Psalms 37:10-13 Psalms 92:7 Proverbs 10:25, 29 John 3:16 2 Peter 2:10-12, they are mortal and will perish.
The unrighteous will be destroyed/perish, they will have their part in the lake of fire, Rev. 21:8. Their death is forever, not forever in torment. When we die our destiny is fixed, there is not a second chance after death. This adoption of the Greek philosophy of the immortal soul and Hades fogs our understanding, it plugs our ears that are to hear.
I could say more but I will leave it here, I hope you will study for the truth. We should empty our minds in prayer where we are open to the truth given by the Spirit of Truth, not led by the traditions of men, Colossians 2:8.
RLW
Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth. ( John 9:41).
In the Old Testament we see the mad Prophet Balaam stopped by a donkey who God readily used to block his way and for a mouthpiece of rebuke. ( 2 Peter 2:16-18 as quoted in the N.T. from Numbers 22-24). We see also how the demons Jesus cast out knew who Jesus was ( Mark 3:11-12). This is somewhat understandable from the fact that the angels were there to see God in heaven and witness the creation of the earth ( Job 38:7).
We are warned in James 2:19 about not just saying that we believe in God. The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom; this is quoted many times in scripture. The conscience of men can be seared after some time; hearts hardened ( 1 Tim. 4:2; Exodus 7:3 and subsequent verses with Pharaoh). A believer has a healthy awe based on God's Holiness; and without holiness no man can see God ( Heb. 12:14).
Only man could see the miracles of Christ and still remain in unbelief. That would not just be related to the physical miracles when on earth; but also the miracle of salvation which often was accompanied by deliverance in scripture but which we see today. Mercifully God forgives any sin against the Father or Son is forgivable ( Matt. 12:32); but against the Holy Spirit is not.
The Spirit demonstrates His Holiness amongst the ministry of John 16:8 warning the world of sin; righteousness and judgment to come. The opposite of a broken and contrite heart is pride and self righteousness (only the sick need a physician Matt. 9:12).
Therefore such Pharisitical people also make their own twisted judgments on right and wrong and condemn others based on that mindset.
May we read scripture for its true meaning not through any man centered agenda; respecting ALL of it as God's Word ( 2 Tim. 3:16). May we have a heart to always glean new truths from God; seeking His face daily ( Psalm 1:2
Then to 2 Peter 2:19, "We have also a more sure word of prophecy". This word from Peter refers back to verses 16-18. Here, he affirms that what he is sharing about Jesus' Coming & Glory & also from his presence at Jesus' Transfiguration, were not the result of fables (maybe even from human imaginations), but his words to them were confirmation of the prophecies of old concerning Jesus. And this "sure word of prophecy" gave a double affirmation to his readers because he (Peter) was an immediate witness to Jesus' Life & Words, to His Glory & Power. So, the prophecy of Jesus was given in the OT, but Peter was a living witness to that prophecy, now fulfilled, having now a "sure word" to give them, to which they can't deny. So, I see no reference in this passage to "the Bible we have today". Blessings.
1. "I form the light, and create darkness"
2. "I make peace, and create evil" - my response is this.
The Bible reveals many 'opposites' (or contrasts) that exist in scripture, such as:
- Being HOLY or UNHOLY ( 1 Peter 1:16; Heb 12:14)
- Being SAVED or UNSAVED (or 'lost' - Romans 10:9-10; Matt 18:11)
- Walking in the SPIRIT or walking in the FLESH ( Rom 8:1; 2 Peter 2:10)
It is in this context that God created DARKNESS so that the LIGHT that He dwells in ( 1 Tim 6:15-1) has some comparison. It is the same principle regarding "peace" (a good life and the pursuit of happiness) and "evil" (meaning war, death and destruction) that God creates these things.
However, on a spiritual basis, LIGHT represents absolute TRUTH, whereas DARKNESS represents lies, deception, misinformation, etc.
"And this is the condemnation, that LIGHT [via the words of Christ and the Apostles] is come into the world, and [religious-based] men LOVED DARKNESS rather than LIGHT [or Bible-based truth], because their deeds [of corrupting God's word - 2 Cor 2:17] were EVIL." ( John 3:19).
As for God creating "EVIL" the same principle applies:
- Being GOOD or being EVIL ( Matt 19:17; John 3:20)
- Doing GOOD or doing EVIL ( Matt 5:44; 1 Peter 3:12)
The principles in Isa 45:7 therefore regulate what people attract on Earth from God according to this statement:
"Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth [by his actions - meaning, 'good' or 'evil' in this life], that shall he also reap [in the next life]. 8 For he that soweth to his flesh [or lusts in this life] shall of the flesh reap corruption [in Hell throughout eternity]; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap LIFE EVERLASTING [with God - IF all the conditions associated with Salvation are met]." ( Galatians 6:6-8)
I hope this answers your questions, One eighty.
Noah was 600; and one could argue it is a typology of the 6000 years of the earth's existence before the Tribulation; followed by the 1000 years of the Millennium by 2 Peter 3:8.
In the time before the flood known as "Antidiluvian"; clearly men lived longer than afterwards. Thus; Adam and many of his progeny lived for 900 plus years; interestingly no one made it quite to 1000; which may be reserved to those who survive in the Millennium due to long life spans once again at that time with a paradise type of earth; albeit still with fallen men (see Isaiah 65:20). There was therefore the likelihood that many were only 2 or 3 generations from Adam by the time the flood came along; so that secondhand accounts of God's story of creation would leave wicked men without excuse. Enoch lived interestingly enough 365 years then was taken; perhaps somehow indicating a day symbolizing a year (although the old calendar was 360 days old); God also told Noah that He would only contend with men 120 years in Genesis 6:3 which could indicate their future lifespan limit; or the time left before the flood from that point.
In any case; God is longsuffering not wishing anyone to perish. ( 2 PEter 3:9). It is interesting that this verse is right after the one above that I quoted; and certainly explains why He waited so long to judge. Noah was a "preacher of righteousness" ( 2 Peter 2:5) but the narrative shows that only 8 were saved in the boat; and they were his immediate family. Sodom's destruction also followed a similar vein; in that case only Lot; his 2 daughters and wife came out of the city; and his wife turned back and was destroyed. In the flood; Nephilim would have contaminated man's bloodline as I see it from Genesis 6:9 that explains why no one else COULD be saved. His patience is seen with Sodom as well ( Gen. 18:32).
The parable of the wheat and the tares should be alarming to everyone; and necessary instruction. ( Matt. 13:24-30). It is said that the wheat and tares are indistinguishable from one another before they are fully ripened. It appears from this parable that God has His purposes for these two groups to remain until the end of the age. Most probably; this is testing for those who ARE true believers to ensure that they won't fall for the temptations of this world as well as false or compromised doctines as well as a lifestyle of sin. Again; our society in general doesn't seem to be finding too many newcomers to churches because of it is a novel practice; or the world is being turned upside down ( Acts 17:6) which were characteristic of the church in Apostolic times.
However; the "damnable heresies" ( 2 Peter 2:1) are increasing along with 1 Timothy 4:1-2; etc. are invading former solid denominations so that a person can have a sense of respectability and pride in church attendance that tells them what they want to hear. Part of this; of course is the result of decades of permissive society and decline of morals; both within and without the church walls; I have stated before no doubt that the destruction of marriages is what I consider to be the primary initial cause especially post World War 2 of what we see today.
A primary example here is how people look at 1 John 2:1-2 on confession of sin and forgiveness. While it is true that Christ's death took care of all sin; past and future; we still have to confess sin; and if someone has the Holy Spirit in them they cannot be content with sin ( Galatians 5:17). a LIFESTYLE of sin such as continual adultery; theft; fornication; and other actions means that ultimately we don't trust God as to His warnings such as in 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 as to reaping what we sow; and don't trust Him to be in the driver's seat in our lives and our souls.
Lot's wife never demonstrated saving faith from what scripture would indicate; at the very least desiring more to turn back to see the fate of the city doomed for destruction rather than to escape. "Righteous Lot" ( 2 Peter 2:7-8) was vexed every day; and clearly quite compromised in his dealings when he offered his daughters to the men who were trying to break down his door to commit abominations. No mention of his wife is in the scriptures; as was with Sarah; for instance in Hebrews 11.
Today in church it was discussed how Abraham was said to be the only one who was a "friend" of God ( James 2:23). Exodus 33:11 states the same of Moses as well so technically my Pastor erred. My point here I may expound on later; namely the fact that God truly spoke in a different manner to them than many others in the Bible. The friendship; in other words went both ways. The discussion also came up today in Sunday school on how He is both Master and friend. This is a mystery in itself; and forces us beyond stereotypical cultural viewpoints toward such a relationship. As for now; I will just state that Lot had to be "shoved" out of his town literally; and the angels had to put up with his ridiculous bantering about going to the nearby little town; which was promptly abandoned once Lot saw what happened and hid in the mountains. Abraham and Moses both had slow starts and their own issues; but were able to have close fellowship with the Lord as we see from Genesis 18:17 with Abraham and Exodus 32:30 where Moses acted to intercede to prevent God from destroying all of Israel. That scene is another discussion as to its theological implications.
We all should strive to be as the saints in the "hall of fame" in Hebrews 11; not stubborn like Jonah as an ox. Nonetheless these all are true believers. We CANNOT claim God's promises with an imaginary Christ or on other terms than scripture dictates and expect it to be true.
My previous posts have discussed the extreme of overly legalistic churches vs those who are overly emotional; in short. Within a certain context; it is often helpful when one can experience the joy of the Lord when expressed more openly in a different type of fellowship on occasion as well as those from more expressive congregants to be introduced or reestablished with fellowship in more traditional worship. There is room for correction in either case; one extreme has the warnings of the Ephesian church abandoning their first love in Revelation 2:4-5; while there are sufficient warnings not only for order as in the Corinthians church but against false doctrines and "damnable heresies" such as 2 Peter 2:1 mentions.
This discussion; to reiterate is considering a true fellowship of worship sort of example and the various styles; preferences or modes of worship that often are commonplace and overlap; as stated in the introduction based on general parameters in scripture but as we shall see often influenced by culture in a given nation more than we may observe after being immersed in such traditions for a long time. To fast forward to the big picture let's look to the supernatural realm; specifically related to the angels and demons; under the authority of Christ and Satan and what a service is like in that dimension concurrent to our actions inside a church service on earth. The test of doctrine; for example shows how to test the spirits as to which ones proclaim Jesus has come in the flesh as opposed to those who deny it ( 1 John 4:2). That may define falsehood; but it is equally true that a church can be dead and lose its "candlestick" ( Rev. 2:5) so that as the Ephesians did; have all the right words but lose any effective power for change.
Briefly; worship must contain the truth reflecting God's character and unchanging attributes as well as express worship with all of the soul; body and mind ( Deut. 6:4-7)
I would like to say that I don't do any grumbling or complaining; but alas then I would be lying. Thankfully anything but blasphemy against the Spirit can be forgiven. As Jesus pointed out to the self-righteous Pharisees; these bad fruits come from within. And 2 Peter 2:21 makes it clear that it is better not to have known the truth than to become reprobate. The blood of Christ is our only hope as Jeremiah 17:9 shows how sick the heart is.
There are Post Millennialists who dispute this; but I don't believe anyone from the church age who is a believer will be at the Great White Throne Judgment. I DO have the opinion that since the verse indicates that those who aren't in the Book of Life are going to the lake of fire; there is room for those who physically survive the Millennial period to go through that as saved people and hence be translated into heaven without dying.
In any event; 1 Corinthians 3:15 indicates that one can make it into heaven and suffer loss. That would be analogous to losing rewards as Revelation 3:11 warns. Paul indicates how we run for the prize. Only a few gain great rewards; as would be indicated by those making 100 fold as opposed to 30 fold returns or others ( Mark 4:20). We should not be confined to just the saved and lost divisions when scripture gives us admonitions for certain crowns that those who persevere; are martyred or are pastors as well as other situations are given for faithfulness.
Matthew 6:19-21 shows us that our treasure is to be in heaven. And that means that He must trust us with earthly riches as well ( Luke 16:10-12) as a test; a prerequisite for heavenly riches. Our brothers in Christ that we support in the ministry will be able to enjoy the harvest with us (see John 4:37). That and personal witnessing are components of fulfilling the Great Commission to finish well.
In short; I am not sure if arguing all points against the subject is worth it; as it likely won't change any minds. I will submit that some issues are a reward issue; as not all are going to get the prize as in Paul's example; and there are scriptures such as Revelation 3:11 stating that we can lose rewards. The basic idea i that Christ must succeed in bringing all His children to glory as that is part of the Father's plan which cannot be thwarted.
As to another point; yes it is true I have heard from one friend of mine who is an evangelist how his own mother turned away from the faith the last few months of his life; and it is true that his mother in law heard the Gospel for many years during home Bible studies and still never came to saving faith. It is also true that judgment is harsher for those who become reprobate from the faith than those who never believed ( 2 Peter 2:21).
THere are also things related to groups of people which must be carefully interpreted as opposed to individuals. That can skew things in the subject of Predestination; for example or even for those such as I that believe in the 5 points more or less can misinterpret something isolated.
I plan to continue this series; and think verses that describe Christ dying for the sins of the whole world may be a good place to begin. After an extensive study in Hebrews on such apparent contraditions to my premise a couple years back I may go there next to explore some of the warnings there as well as the Gospels and being a branch cast into the fire.
Whatever happens; we all should be searching the scriptures daily as the Bereans did. We still should fear God; knowing He is not just Savior; but Lord; King and Master of us all. Learning His ways is the most important thing; not just a bunch of facts about Him. The Word is our instruction manual but unless taken to heart it won't change us.
This is what I can offer on 2 Peter 2:4:
(Part 1)
If God did this, then He's not slumbering, and He's not delaying about His judgment. And this is interesting because it shows a past tense. God did not spare angels that sinned but cast them down to hell. The word for hell is TARTARUS. And it is the Greek version of the term for Hades, where the unseen spirits go, in a compartment waiting for judgment. It's the only place where it's found in the bible.
And so, he says that God in past, He cast these angels who sinned into TARTARUS, and delivered them into chains of darkness.
Now it's the darkness that is the chains. How do you take spirits and put chains on them? It's a phrase that associates locking someone up so that they cannot escape.
And to be reserved for judgment. So, if God did not spare the angels that sinned, how's He going to spare these that sinned?
We will find out more about these angels when we get into Jude Verse 6. It's a one-chapter book. Both Jude and Peter run along the same lines and minister the same thing. And the evidence provides for us that Peter used some of Jude's warnings in order to have a unanimous unifying warning to all the churches.
It's interesting, but in Jude Verse 6, when he talks about these same angels, he says these angels which kept not their first estate, that is, the angels that rebelled against God with Satan, but left their own habitation, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
So, these are angels who had sinned and had left their first estate. Many believe that these are the angels that brought on the evil that forced God to bring the flood, the demonic forces that are mentioned in Genesis Chapter 6.
But it is interesting that it is well known amongst the apostles and amongst the early church that there were angels who had sinned.
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. 2 Peter 2:1-2
That's something important to remember, especially for me. It tells me I shouldn't get so worked up.
Thanks and God bless.
The Bible is God's gift to us, a book of great multiplicity! It incorporates history, law, types and symbols, poetry, promises, devotion, doctrine, parables, and prophecy, the Message. The Bible is a collection of 66 books by about 40 authors over approximately 1600 years that were inspired by God (the word of God) that is now in almost all languages.
Is the entire Bible prophecy? No, about one-third of it is. Are many to most of them fulfilled? Yes. Can we find prophecies in Genesis? Yes. Can we see the meaning of the historical reality that can be archaeologically proven and still see the message of how God was working His plan starting with the first Adam? Yes. Is Jesus the spirit of prophecy? No, it is our testimony of Jesus that is the spirit of prophecy.
Were the people of Noah's time preached to? Yes. Some take this verse differently 1 Peter 3:18-20. My understanding the same Spirit that raised Jesus, through Noah preached redemption to the people for 120 years as he built the ark, 2 Peter 2:5 the flood took all the ungodly but the eight. Jesus did not while He was in the tomb preach to the dead, if that was the case why only those who died in the flood?
Angels are ministers but they do not preach the gospel they do not have a testimony because they do not understand it, 1 Peter 1:10-12. Regardless of the innovations in the world, it does not change and is not new, what was, is now, human nature has remained and always will remain the same.
We must be led by the Holy Spirit of truth. We must know all has not been revealed and all answers will not be given. We are responsible and we will be held accountable, Rev. 20:15. We can get lost in prophecies and parables our own wisdom can shade the truth for truth is simple to understand even for a child in faith.
Just a little.
God bless,
RLW
And in that chapter, the Apostle Peter was warning his Christian readers to beware of false prophets & false teachers who both taught & lived in contrary to what Jesus & the apostles taught. As Peter declared, "it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them" (v21). He likened such degenerate folk as the old proverb spoke about them, "The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire." Not a nice sight to behold - certainly not a nice people to be engaging with in any form.
Origin of the Sethite View Continued.
Part 7.
6. New Testament Confirmations
"In the mouths of two or three witnesses every word shall be established."20 In Biblical matters, it is essential to always compare Scripture with Scripture. The New Testament confirmations in Jude and 2 Peter are impossible to ignore.21
For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell [Tartarus], and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly; 2 Peter 2:4-5
Peter's comments even establishes the time of the fall of these angels to the days of the Flood of Noah.
Even Peter's vocabulary is provocative. Peter uses the term Tartarus, here translated "hell." This is the only place that this Greek term appears in the Bible. Tartarus is a Greek term for "dark abode of woe"; "the pit of darkness in the unseen world." As used in Homer's Iliad, it is "...as far beneath hades as the earth is below heaven."22 In Greek mythology, some of the demigods, Chronos and the rebel Titans, were said to have rebelled against their father, Uranus, and after a prolonged contest they were defeated by Zeus and were condemned into Tartarus.
The Epistle of Jude23 also alludes to the strange episodes when these "alien" creatures intruded themselves into the human reproductive process:
And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Jude 6,7
See Part 8.
This is a tough scripture, the sons of God and the daughters of men. Some consider the sons of God to be the line of Seth and the daughters of men the line of Cain. Then if we throw in what Jesus said in Matt. 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven, wow.
There is no need for angels in heaven to marry, they are immortal, and no need to reproduce as we will be after the resurrection in the kingdom on the new earth. Angels are called sons of God in Hebrew b'nai Elohim in Job 1:6 Job 2:1 Job 38:7.
Through scripture angels take on human form, they eat and drink Gen. 18:7-8 Gen. 19:3 and physically wrestle with man, Gen. 32:24. If they eat and drink would that mean they have all the organs of man on earth? Scripture tells us there are devils/demons and fallen angels on earth along with Satan but there is another group of angels. These angels are different, they are locked in chains of darkness in the bottomless pit until judgment. 2 Peter 2:4-7 Jude 1:6-7. We see in Rev. 9:11 this pit has a king, and this is where Satan will be locked up for 1000 years.
They left their first estate, heaven and in 2 Peter and Jude it says making them an example, (going after strange flesh), they corrupted God's creation Gen. 6:5-7. Even though there are fallen angels roaming the earth this set of angels God made an example to the others they will be locked in chains of darkness until judgment. We see the devils in Mark 5:9-10 were in fear Jesus might cast them down to the bottomless pit.
We see that this happened again after the flood, Gen. 6:4 "and also after." The description in scripture is clear these are not just tall people. 2 Samuel 21:16 Joshua 12:4 Numbers 13:33 Deuteronomy 2:19-21 Deuteronomy 20:17 Amos 2:9. This is just a small amount of information but may it will help in your study.
God bless,
RLW