Discuss 2 Samuel 13

'There is more Scripture objectively condemning the use of alcoholic beverages than will be found on the subjects of lying, adultery, swearing, cheating, hypocrisy, pride, or even blasphemy.

1) Genesis 9:20-26 - Noah became drunk; the result was immorality and family trouble.

2) Genesis 19:30-38 - Lot was so drunk he did not know what he was doing; this led to immorality

3) Leviticus 10:9-11 - God commanded priests not to drink so that they could tell the difference between the holy and the unholy.

4) Numbers 6:3 - The Nazarites were told to eat or drink nothing from the grape vine.

5) Deuteronomy 21:20 - A drunken son was stubborn and rebellious.

6) Deuteronomy 29:5-6 - God gave no grape juice to Israel nor did they have intoxicating drink in the wilderness.

7) Deuteronomy 32:33 - Intoxicating wine is like the poison of serpents, the cruel venom of asps.

8) Judges 13:4, 7, 14 - Samson was to be a Nazarite for life. His mother was told not to drink wine or strong drink.

9) 1 Samuel 1:14-15 - Accused, Hannah said she drank no wine.

10) 1 Samuel 25:32-38 - Nabal died after a drunken spree.

11) 2 Samuel 11:13 - By getting Uriah drunk, David hoped to cover his sin.

12) 2 Samuel 13:28-29 - Amnon was drunk when he was killed.

13) 1 Kings 16:8-10 - The king was drinking himself into drunkenness when he was assassinated

14) 1 Kings 20:12-21 - Ben-Hadad and 32 other kings were drinking when they were attacked and defeated by the Israelites.

15) Esther 1:5-12 - The king gave each one all the drink he wanted. The king was intoxicated when he commanded the queen to come.

16) Psalm 75:8 - The Lord's anger is pictured as mixed wine poured out and drunk by the wicked.

17) Proverbs 4:17 - Alcoholic drink is called the wine of violence.

18) Proverbs 20:1 - Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging.

19) Proverbs 23:19-20 - A wise person will not be among the drinkers of alcoholic beverages.

20) Proverbs 23:21 - Drunkenness causes poverty.

21) Proverbs 23:29-30 -

Which Tamar? There are 2.

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How would you counsel Tamar, Amnon, Absalom, and David in 2 Samuel 13?

How would you counsel Tamar?

Hi Mary.

I agree with Richard and this may also help.

The term is also used to describe a Hebrew custom which indicated deep sorrow. Upon the death of a relative or important personage, or when there was a great calamity, it was customary for the Hebrews to tear their garments. Reuben rent his clothes when he found that Joseph had been taken from the pit ( Genesis 37:29). The sons of Jacob rent their clothes when the cup was found in Benjamin's sack ( Genesis 44:13). A messenger came to Eli with his clothes rent to tell of the taking of the ark of God and of the death of his two sons ( 1 Samuel 4:12). David rent his garments when he heard that Absalom had slain his brothers ( 2 Samuel 13:31). See also 2 Samuel 15:32; 2 Kings 18:37; Isaiah 36:22; Jeremiah 41:5. Rending of clothes was also an expression of indignation. The high priest rent his garment when Jesus spoke what he thought was blasphemy ( Matthew 26:65).

God bless.

There seems to be several times that occurs throughout the Bible, Is it to show us to view each person individually? Several were opposites, yet similar; is that to inspire us to be our best? Luke 7:19-28,

Interestingly Saul, Saul/Paul, 1 Samuel 15, Acts 13:9, Saul continued to do wickedly, Saul/Paul repentantly changed Acts 8,

Tamar, Tamar, 2 Samuel 13, 2 Samuel 13:19-20, Genesis 38, 1 Chronicles 2:4, Ruth 4:12,

Manasseh, Manasseh: Joshua 17:1-18, Genesis 48:14,20, 2 Chronicle 30:11, Psalms 108:8, Jeremiah 15:4, 2 Chronicles 33:1, Isaiah 9:28, 2 Chronicles 33:10,22,

Lazarus, Lazarus, John 11, John 12:10, John 12:1-3, Luke 16:20, was one rich one poor?

Etc.

Did you notice? David feared GOD & would not lay his hand on GOD's anointted & felt remorseful for cutting Saul's garment.

1 Samuel 24:4,5,6 , 1 Samuel 24:10,

Saul also ripped Samuel's garment 1 Samuel 15:27 however 1 Samuel 15:28-29. Even after remorseful repentance 1 Samuel 15:29,30,35

Do think the significance of the clothing was a factor? 1 Samuel 2:19, His mother's sacrifice 1 Samuel 1:28

Saul pursued David to kill him: 1 Samuel 19:1,10,11,15,

& Saul ordered the prophets of GOD killed, possibly unarmed, their families, livestock & nursing babies included.; 1 Samuel 22:17,18,19 Same Saul that left the enemy King & livestock alive in disobedience to GOD's orders. 1 Samuel 15:1,2,3,8,9,

Psalms 105:15

David's mercy 2 Samuel 9:3-7,

David's sin & judgement: 2 Samuel 12:7,9,11,12,14,18, 2 Samuel 13:1,6,7,8,12,13,14,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,28,29,30,31,32, after years 2 Samuel 14:25,30,31,32, 2 Samuel 15:6,10,12,13,14,16,23,30,31, 2 Samuel 16:3,5,6,7,8,11,13,22, 2 Samuel 17:21,23,29, 2 Samuel 18:5,7,9,10,12,14,15,17,20,27,32,33, 2 Samuel 19:1-4, "the sword did not depart from his house" etc. There were more scriptures about his consequences _.

Queen Vashti, consequence Ester 1:19, Ester 2:4

Saul then 1 Samuel 28:3,7,18,19

David has Psalms of remorseful repentance, gives glory to GOD ALMIGHTY, shows mercy & humility at times. With Saul he shows remorse but didn't read much of repentance, etc.

However the Bible says: 1 Colossians 1:20,

Job 12:16

Hopefully these are helpful in your study.

(cont) in the Greek and Hebrew manuscripts of the Bible. Agape is a higher form of unconditional, Godly love and philia is a lesser form used for friendship or brotherly love. The ignorant criticize the KJV translators for translating "agape" simply as love. The truth is the Greek words agapao/agape and phileo/philia overlap in the manuscripts, and there's no discernible difference between the two in the Scripture. For example, 2 Samuel 13:15 says, "Then Amnon hated her exceedingly; so that the hatred wherewith he hated her was greater than the love wherewith he had loved her. And Amnon said unto her, Arise, be gone." The problem is that both agapao and the cognate agape can refer to Amnon's incestuous rape of his half sister Tamar. Also, backslidden Demas who loves the world with agape love. "For Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world, and is departed unto Thessalonica;" 2 Timothy 4:10. There's John 3:35 that says, "The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand,"; later John 5:20 says, "For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth." The Father's love for the Son, which is without question the greatest love, is described as "agape love" in one instance and "phileo love" in the other, and by the same author, John. Houston, we have a problem. The point is there isn't a way to know what kind of love each of these Greek words is referring to in Scripture. Context is key. Bottom line, the Bible's been translated into English, and the 47 translators of the King James Bible did an inerrant, infallible job. You and today's scholars and translators, not so much. Knowing Greek is fine for reading and understanding Greek myths and literature, but not for reading and understanding Scripture, which is God's written word. One thing more, I don't care that you consult the Greek to study your Bible, but I do care when you imply or suggest that it's better to defer to the Greek to know the truth of Scripture.

Read verse 19.

John 15:19

"If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you."

1 John 3:1

"Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not."

1 John 2:15

"Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him."

Remember the story of Joseph, how his brethren despised him for his virtue. (Coat of many colors - 2 Samuel 13:18)

1 John 3:13

"Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you."

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Mishael

Question: "What does the Bible say about a sixth sense / third eye?"

Answer: The movie entitled The Sixth Sense stirred up a renewed interest in the ability to see "dead people," and/or communicate with the spirit world. Television shows titled Medium and Ghost Whisperer continue the trend. Is it truly possible to see the spirits of dead people? Is there such a thing as a "sixth sense" or "third eye"?

A sixth sense can also be described as ESP, or extra-sensory perception. Extra-sensory perception is the means by which we acquire information through any sense other than the five basic senses (sight, smell, taste, touch, and hearing) or other well-documented scientific physiological senses. Depending on one's culture and beliefs, a sixth sense can be attributed to anything from the spiritual to the technological.

Parapsychology addresses certain types of ESP-such as those possessed by psychics and mediums-including clairvoyance, telekinesis, and communication with the dead. The Bible makes it clear that these types of experiences should be avoided. We should not exercise any sort of spiritual abilities outside the realm of what the Bible deems acceptable, nor should we consult with anyone who does so.

If such a thing as a sixth sense or third eye truly exists, it is not of God. Those who claim to practice such abilities are either deceivers, self-deceived, and/or under the power of demonic forces. Leviticus 19:31 says, "Do not rely on mediums and psychics, for you will be defiled by them. I, the Lord, am your God." Consulting spiritists is foolish and angers the Lord ( 2 Chronicles 33:6). Acting as a medium or psychic was punishable by Death.

You need to stop doing this. It throws open a big wide door for demons to come I and make things happen.

It simply means God changed His mind about what He was going to do.

What does it mean to say it repenteth the Lord? Geneses 6:7.

We certainly can't do it - but the power & authority given to the Angel from Heaven, can & will do it at the end of Christ's Millennial reign on Earth: Revelation 20:10:

"And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever."

How do you cast devil back into the bowels of hell for eternity

The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are the LET US in Genesis 1:26

They are the Godhead.

Thank you Chris for the very helpful, thorough and expansive answer to my question. Truly appreciated and I do believe it gives me closure to my question. I know it is faith that is dominant in following Jesus. At the same time, when doing a deeper study questions do come to awareness and while my faith was not disturbed I could not get closure on my reasoning with it being an assumption that it was Mary's lineage in Luke 19:23.

No, Jesus isn't 'above' the father. I don't think its a hierarchy. John 10:30.

>Then in fact if u get God the Father to say it

Yes, God is perfect and doesn't lie or sin. I don't understand what you mean by your comment. You can't trick or manipulate God into anything, if that's what you mean.

The question or comment I have to state is since the Bible Says that "...IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR GOD TO LIE?"CORRECT Yes ? Now if In the beginning was God and the Word was with God and the Word was God And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us ? So Jesus being the Word of God and The Father God cannot Lie GIVES NE THE conclusion IN MY MIND IS AS FOLLOWS -If you get the Father God to say something then he must honor his Word and do it whatever he says he does by his Word? Then in fact if u get God the Father to say it then according to this Word even God the Father becomes Subject to his WORD FOR HE CANNOT LIE .?Jesus is above all even the father in power or am I mistaken?

" Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is LORD?"

Comments about the deity of Christ. Philip asked jesus show us the father and it will suffice us . Then Jesus asked Philip have i been so long a time with you and you have not seen me Philip .ty JESUS he that has seen me has seen the FATHER. Not that they are the same idenical being. But its that Christ can sow the very seed of God in us sinners th word that is yet to come th contents of the book which are the words of God that has been sealed till the last day.To whom the word came ( his seed ) it made them Gods which is the H.G. that is gonna be born in US and he said the scriptures cannot be broken . I.E. his word cannot return unto him void.It was God the Father that said that everything has to multiply after its kind. But Jesus has the POWER TO MULTIPLY VERY GOD IN HUMANITY with his seed the word which proves he was born AFTER THE GOD KIND, thus when he will go forth to sow his precious seed in humanity the result is Gods th H.G.PLURAL THAT IS GONNA BE AS THE STARS OF HEAVEN WHICH IS EMMANUELS GOD WITH US HUMANS. Soon as he was born the Father GOD ALMIGHTY instructs all the ANGELS to worship his Son,If Christ were not God the son then God almighty wd have been braking the 1st commandment.Thou shall have no other GODS before Me. Thus he had no sin nature as God has no sin nature. GBU

Alex, I would have liked to send you a link that I believe will give you more information that you are seeking, but I'll try doing it this way:

Go to the site: StackExchange. At Search All Sites, type in How could Jesus be descended. Hopefully, you will see the first discussion that has one David Connor giving a very useful reply.

Personally, I've always had a sense that this Holy Seed from God was implanted in Mary without any contribution from Mary's body towards the growth & development of the embryo. In other words, the embryo was sustained & nurtured in the womb by the Spirit & that Jesus' birth through humanity was purely to provide an incarnation & physical evidence of a Davidic lineage. We know that God could have just as easily taken His Word & clothed Him in humanity to accomplish His purposes without the need of a physical birth. But He chose to use humanity to achieve that end, to fulfil prophecy concerning the Davidic line of His Messiah ( Isaiah 11:1-5).

I then use this rationale to believe that Jesus was born into the world without a sin nature (unlike us), & that at His temptation ( Mt 4), Satan's sole objective was to force upon Jesus a sin nature, just as He did to Adam & Eve. Unlike the first Adam, the Last Adam withstood Satan using His Own Word. I should also say, that I know of some believers that believe that Jesus was born with a sin nature (through Mary) as we have also through our parents, but He resisted Satan so as to not succumb to sin (unlike us). I don't accept this view as it compromises the Holiness of God & His Seed.

But this is the other side of your question that leads to your enquiry as to which line does Jesus' ancestry go through & how that is accomplished, & therefore my comment above doesn't answer what you want to know, but may help. So I hope that Site will offer you more guidance in this.

Thank you Mishael for all your thoughts and research to my questions and for caring so much to help answer my question.

Comments by Alex about the lineage of Christ. Scriptures say that Christ was the Word made flesh and blood. JESUS was not of this world i.e not by any mans seed only by the living WORD MADE FLESH AND BLOOD the living WORD is Gods seed. He tells the Jews you are of this world i am not of this world, you are from beneath i am from Above, he was a celestrial being not a terestrial being. God almighty was his absolute Father thats how he had the power to sow that Good Seed the very seed of God in humanity.Jesus asked the pharisees what think ye of Christ whos seed is he? they replied Davids seed then Jesus said if David calls him Lord how can he be his son his lineage etc. then they durse not ask him any more Questions he was only the son of david SIMBOLICLY i.e this relationship between david and solomon was just a metaphor of Christ and his son the H.G. tHAT IS GONNA BUILD A GREATER TEMPLE THEN SOLOMON IN OUR HEARTS. As the kingdom is gonna be with in US SINNERS. IN OUR HEARTS ETC. GBU

I googled the blood factors and you're right. He has his fathers blood and an alelle factor from Mary.

His blood type can be the Fathers blood.

We do know the Bible says that Jesus is WITHOUT sin right up to the Cross.

I have a couple of those genealogy charts from googling. You have to save it to your photos to be able to enlarge it so you can read it. Just google "genealogy of Jesus".

Mishael,

I do understand that Joseph is related by blood to David but that has nothing to do with Jesus since Joseph was only a step father, no blood relationship. I also understand that a baby has his father's blood. That is the original point of my question. The only blood is this birth is from the mother, Mary. The father is our Father, God Almighty and his spirit came upon Mary to conceive Jesus as scripture says. So, the lineage of Joseph is immaterial. God's Spirit is the father and Mary's blood is necessary for Jesus to be blood lined to David. But there is no mention in scripture of Mary's bloodline. I guess I have to accept that the lineage told in Luke for some reason just does not mention Mary and we are to only assume it is Mary's.

Alex,

The legal term for adoption can be found in Luke 3:23. The term "as was supposed" is defined as "as reckoned by law / "to lay down a thing as law" / "to hold by custom, or usage." This is the legal term used for adoption.

The father of Joseph is Jacob, as can be seen from Matthew 1:16.

The father of Mary is Heli, as can be seen from Luke 3:23.

The lineage of Jesus goes from Mary, through David, through Adam, to God Himself.

The birth of the Savior of the world was promised long before prophecy of David came into light. ( Genesis 3:15). The birth of this One will defeat death itself.

I already responded to your question. Did you check your email?

People have made charts of Jesus's genealogy through Mary

And Joseph too even though he was a step father. No blood connection. He was however a descendant of King David.

A baby always has its fathers blood type.

The only connection to the mother is for sustenance.

That's how Jesus's blood was SINLESS. That's why His blood is so Powerful.

Check those charts out on Google.

Dear Brother or Sister in Christ,

I am still not satisfied with the answers given for Jesus' lineage. It is critical that Jesus be a descendant of David to fulfill the prophesy that David's son will be the ruler of the kingdom. If we use the lineage given in Matthew it connects David by blood down to Joseph which has nothing to do with Jesus' bloodline. At best Joseph is Jesus' step father, a non-blood. There is no mention that Joseph legally adopted Jesus as his son. Jesus has no blood relation or legal relation (recorded) to Joseph. And, after the story of Jesus disappearing for 3-4 days at the age of 12, after the festival of Passover in Jerusalem, Joseph is never mentioned again. He is a truly insignificant figure in Jesus' life. Whereas, his mother Mary is mentioned a number of times even at his crucifixion in John 19:26. Unfortunately, the lineage in Luke is "assumed" to be that of Mary's but not stated. For Jesus to be a blood relative of David it is important to know not assume this to be the case. In the past years, this has not been important but has become so since this is a key prophecy and fulfillment of God's covenant. The best I can come to is Jesus was a man/God and was a Spiritual son/Lord of David and of God, the Almighty.

Respectfully,

Alex

2 Samuel 13

David loved God, loved his family and loved his country. He was vulnerable through his deep love for all.

Amnon had a dirty old uncle encourage him to pursue Tamar (Absalom's sister). The uncle tells him what to do. Tamar tried to reason with him that as half sister, David might give her as a wife. Amnon only wanted what he'd been whipped into a frenzy for. After the rape, he didn't want anything to do with her. Nobody told David about it. David did not know what was going on, in his own household but he found out. He was angry at Absalom.

Tamar went to live in Absalom's house; in seclusion. Absalom simmered in anger 2 years before he dealt with Amnon.

Tamar is shown in David's genealogy; which is unusual.

Absalom was married? It's recorded he had 3 sons that must have died at birth because they are not in the genealogy. He had 1 daughter and he named her Tamar. She was a woman of fair countenance like her Aunt Tamar. I don't know how long she lived.

Absalom did many many evil things. He raped all of his fathers concubines in full sight of town; and more. 2 Samuel 15

Abdalom died hanging in a tree by his long beautiful dreadlocks. Joab is fetched and he stabs Absalom in the heart with 3 arrows; the troops with him smote and slew him afterwards.

To conclude: the better question is what happened to Absalom's 1 daughter, that he named Tamar. Females were not in genealogies as a rule.

I think David's daughter Tamar died of a broken messed up life. I think In honor of her suffering, he named his daughter Tamar, also. There is no record of the end of her life.

Galatians 3:13 says, CURSED is any who dies by hanging on a tree. Absalom died on a tree. Judas died on a tree. Jesus died on a tree so that WE ALL MAY LIVE ETERNALLY.

He was made a curse for our sakes.

David's psalms represent a lot of heartache over his life, his kids, his choices. He loved large and suffered much.