Primary themes and primary applications of scripture (continued).
Psalm 119:97 is just one of many verses in this Psalm talking about loving God's law and commandments. We have looked in the last posting about 2 Timothy 3:16 as to the practical truths of the Bible in instruction; but of course without love as Paul stated we are nothing but a clanging cymbal as part off 1 Corinthians 13:1 mentions; and this idea continues throughout what many call the "love" chapter which is often given as a gift to married couples with a door hanging type motif so that hopefully they can realize what they are called to in the Lord. The sentiment of John 14:15 marries the concept of love and obedience together. We can't have God's love (agape) without the truth; and if we attempt to follow the truth without love; we run the risk of what happened to the Ephesian church as described in Revelation in the beginning of chapter 2.
I won't make this study a detailed description of basic codes of conduct for a new believer which are of course needed for a young Christian to study in regard especially to the Epistles of Paul. Maturity in the faith is certainly bolstered by these necessary means; but is not by any means exclusively determined by these instructional verses. We can; for instance find meaning in the book of Esther and Ruth where God isn't even mentioned or just with a passing glance. The faith of both of these women is clearly seen through example. The Song of Solomon; probably the least read book in scripture seems to be an oddity in many ways and of course should be read by mature audiences. Nonetheless the theme of loyalty to the one someone is espoused to is something we can learn from; along with some possible hidden prophetic meanings in, for instance chapter 5; verse 7. In many ways; however it is best not to overspiritualize this one particular book; in attempting to make any direct correlation between eros and agape love for Christ in the sentiment
Section 1: Primary themes of scripture and primary applications
A child could probably read a section of the Bible and learn fairly easily about David and Goliath; Noah's Ark; and major characters in scripture as well as basic scriptures about Christ. We can make two errors related to this topic; the first finding nothing of meaning to us as 21st Century citizens of the USA or other modern civilizations or the opposite-thinking every verse somehow applies to us. Without disputing the 2 Timothy 3:16 concept; we simply cannot find a way to directly relate to David's story fighting a giant or any other incidents involving the genetically mutated offspring of Nephilim; nor can we relate to a command to destroy all men; women; children and cattle in a wartime situation today. In these cases; of course we can apply principles such as obedience being better than sacrifice ( 1 Samuel 15:22) as well as understanding the spiritual dimension which still exists today; even with certain entities already chained in the abyss ( 2 Peter 2:4) being a past event. Still other passages may discuss ceremonial laws which have no practical moral application but would keep an individual out of being part of Israel in the Old Testament times; when certain other Sabbath rules were strictly enforced to the point of death ( Numbers 15:32-36). We also are forced to deal with certain passages such as Deuteronomy 24 and later commentary by Christ in Matthew 5 and 19 which trumpet what Moses permitted due to hardness of hearts but apparently wasn't God's will in the beginning and therefore not "commanded" as the Pharisees presented their arguments in these passages to permit divorce.
In short; I would say that primary themes help tell the story of God's master plan; or, as Navigator's states in the concept Dawson Trotman states "to know Christ and to make Him known." The exclusivity of Christ in such passages as John 3:16 show how to be saved
If we don't have assurance of salvation then of course we are fickle in any witnessing endeavors and it is hard to reflect the hope within us ( 1 Peter 3:15). We must have confidence and as Phillipians 1:28 states And in nothing terrified by your adversaries: which is to them an evident token of perdition, but to you of salvation, and that of God.
Part of this is giving a bold defense of judgment to come as John 16:8 states is how the Spirit works on men's hearts. If we doubt ourselves because of what men think; or somehow think we can dodge verses that state categorically that what is stated in 2 Timothy 3:12 about all who are Godly suffering persecution we are only fooling ourselves. Society today has gone to great lengths to ensure we don't offend anyone but the Gospel IS an offense ( 1 Peter 2:8). Having a proper foundation of scripture is necessary to give a sound testimony. Hell and judgment should be taught with fear and trembling; not with a proud attitude but nonetheless must be preached.
We have made too much of presentation in form rather than substance with a sideshow of music and a "two spoonfuls of sugar make the medicine go down" to quote an old tune probably not familiar to young folks here. Revelation 10:10 states that although it tastes sweet it was bitter in the stomach (in regard to the prophetic words John was to speak). When we are surrendured to the Spirit we will see reactions like the jailor in Acts 16:30 "what must I do to be saved?" NOWHERE in scripture to we see pleading and cajoling for any individual to be saved. God draws all those who He eventually saves; so we should let Him do the work and get out of the way ourselves and any agenda that isn't Biblically sound. Only the Spirit convicts of sin and until it does that work we can only sow a seed. The numbers game where prizes are offered when a certain number of new converts a day make a confession is an abomination.
My last two posts were a general look at accuracy of historical and more recent information as seen through the media and historical accounts. A realistic view of the Bible sees it set apart as having all things necessary for instruction; rebuke; etc as 2 Timothy 3:16 states. We often use other sources such as Foxe's Book of Martyrs to fill in the details; and most of us have the idea that all but one of the original Apostles was martyred. The scripture only mentions James the brother of John killed in Acts 12:2. We can assess from the writings of Paul that he knew his time of departure was at hand; but Acts 28 stops short of his martyrdom. From Christ's words to Peter in John 21:18 as to his fate of martyrdom as well. Whether John in Revelation was boiled in oil unsuccessfully before his Patmos exile is not as far as I know proven.
Often we CAN read into what is not said in scripture. Jesus was basically left out of anything but a bare bones description of his time before His minstry began after John the Baptist baptised Him. I would imagine he was perfect in being a carpenter and all that it entailed but we just need to understand that He fulfilled the law perfectly in His life and ultimately His death.
When we look at Christ's personal prayer life in particular; we see that He knew the importance of withdrawing before certain events and praying all night at times; as He did before picking the Disciples; as well as fasting and prayer which He likely did both practices before upbraiding those who didn't remain proactive in general to be spiritually strong at the casting out of the demon in Matthew 17:21. We don't see ANY indication that any of the Apostles or Disciples prayed before the Resurrection. It doesn't prove it didn't happen but certainly indicates it was probably very deficient.
The Bible clearly does NOT put people but God on display. Even mourning for Moses had to end ( Joshua 1:2).
I suppose today's scripture from Joshua 24:18 is as good a place as any to tackle that subject. As for the entire Bible as we have it today; there is no verse in scripture mentioning all the written texts as a whole; probably because they weren't complete yet.
1 Corinthians 13:10 mentions things passing away when the partial is complete; or something to that affect. Revelation also has verses warning about not adding or subtracting which could mean adding to that book or all scripture. Since the written texts originally came from oratory (with the exception of the 10 Commandments originally penned by God Himself); God planned it out so that the scribes would count every LETTER of a scroll; and get rid of a copy to start again if it was even slightly off. 2 Timothy 3:16 explains that all scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching; reproof; etc.
I have discussed in older posts a summation of the Apocrypha as to truths of historic or moral truths that are borrowed from true scripture; which always states "thus saith the Lord" except for places like Ruth and Esther; or Song of Solomon. God's truths are absolute; as we see from the claims of Christ's divinity; and the laws in the 10 Commandments. The repetitive themes such as scriptures being repeated again in the New Testament to enhance their true meanings bring a cohesiveness to the Bible. We also have such admonitions as 1 John 4:2 stating what any "spirit" testifies about Christ having come in the flesh.
That would correlate with verses like Matthew 16:17 where it is clear that Christ's DIVINITY (as the "I am") can only be understood or revealed through the Spirit. I noticed that myself pre conversion it didn't enter my mind that Christ was God or part of the "Godhead". As our spirit testifies with "his Spirit"( Romans 8:16) that we are His children and His Word is truth the Lord will build our discernment of truth as we grow and mature in Him to know what is true (see also John 10:27).
Proverbs 3:5-6 tells us to trust in the Lord and lean not on your own understanding, but acknowledge the Lord and He will direct your paths. Surely our Creator should know what is best for us; and we should have enough examples of past saints and sinners to guide us and keep us on the straight and narrow path ( 2 Timothy 3:16). Giving up all to follow Him is something that certainly takes trust; that is for God to provide basic needs and the fact that there is heavenly rewards for temporal suffering. Those living as the Disciples did would certainly need encouragement such as found in the Book of Hebrews where it says that we MUST believe He is a rewarder of those who do His will ( Hebrews 11:6). Understanding that comes from above is what allows us to believe that Christ is truly God in the flesh ( Matt. 16:17). God's wisdom through the Spirit unlocks scripture and reveals to us eternal truths about individuals as well as the fate of nations. Many hard to read scriptures have meanings cleared up with cross references; and meditating on the Word day and night helps us to bring these things to mind for our own edification and witnessing to others "in and out of season" ( 2 Tim 4:2).
A general rule of thumb is that there is no (or shouldn't be) any line of demarcation between our "spiritual" lives involving various religious duties and the rest of our work and recreational interests. There is no good substitute for daily scripture studies accompanied by prayer; but there has to be more than just head knowledge. Continuing on the subject of TRUST; other people as well need to be able to see evidence of Christ "on display" in our character and interactions before they go for deeper understanding on spiritual matters. Therefore; we must be living out what we believe and naturally be dividing the Word correctly ( 2 Tim. 2:15). In upcoming posts I will try to demonstrate how to effectively read scripture and put it to use.
I am one who believes in the hard sayings in particular that those who are living in adultery we should warn of their fate and also that taking communion should not involve those who are living in fornication and adultery or any other unrepentant sin involving a lifestyle of sin in particular. In my mind that involves second or later marriages of those whose first spouse is still living which is an issue I am currently dealing with in my church. I am not here going to debate on this particular posting the meaning of the "exception clause" due to "fornication" in Matthew 5 and 19 which is NOT present in parallel passages in Luke and Mark; and further bolstered by passages in Romans and Corinthians.
My concluding concept here is that ALL doctrines according to 2 Timothy 3:16 are important for teaching; edification; etc.
There are always some things debated; and no church has a perfect understanding or is sinless. Nonetheless the things that are clearly taught should be obeyed whether we like it or not to maintain a place where the Spirit is welcome and we aren't in danger of the "candlestick" going out as we see with the Ephesian church in Revelation who abandoned their "first love." This doesn't leave any room for partiality or pride whether it be for our leadership or church members; traditions; etc. It is God's church; not our own. The Lord disciplines His own; and we are being tested to see if we will be faithful until the end. If the enemy comes into the camp; through our own wickedness or the invasion of others then we are negligent in our duties if we don't try to stop it. We do what we can; God may indeed have determined to let a local church fail to fulfill greater purposes; but we need to be jealous for the truth as long as some truth prevails; at least until God opens a door for us to move on; or we are thrown out. The ten thousand dollar question is whether the Spirit is welcomed or locked out.
As of the last week or so in particular I have noticed a plethora of deconstructionist type videos appearing on You Tube. I am not sure if something I looked at recently triggered this; or it is something which at this time is gaining traction (which I would assume in general it is).
I have seen a number of interesting topics on this site recently; but as with the first thing I mentioned I have concerns about endless intellectual arguments that lead us nowhere. That can be true to some extent even with scripture; although I am glad to see so much of it coming up of late with such topics as the Trinity in particular there also needs to be the realization that we never will understand everything about the scriptures and mysteries of God and second there has to be some sort of agreement and there should be unity on the basic concepts of scripture as believers. Without this concept then anyone can throw us off; because even with true faith more questions inevitably arise whenever one is answered. This seems like blind faith to some degree; but I would characterize it as a trusting faith in a God that gives us enough guidelines to remain on the straight and narrow to make it to the Promised Land. We can't always put our understanding as the standard of whether we accept or reject something. We trust that the scripture is sufficient for all doctrine; teaching; etc ( 2 Timothy 3:16 I believe).
Some things for the future are clear enough; certainly there is no end for instance to the Father; Son or Spirit even if we have some issue with eternity past; but in the same token if we start to doubt one thing likely the enemy will cause us to doubt other things. One could look at Predestination in light of this concept as well; whether we believe in free will or not in the end we should agree that God is fair and the number saved and lost will be set in stone in the future even if we don't believe it was in the past.
I agree with your application of 2 Timothy 3:16 and your use of the term "God breathed," as the phrase "inspiration of God" is one Greek word that means God breathed. This would include scripture that was in existence prior to 1611. I also agree that defining the word infallible is helpful.
I do not believe that any bible translation is infallible, including the KJV. In order to claim infallibility of any translation, we would also have to believe that the men involved in the translation process of whatever bible we choose to read were themselves infallible. No man (Christ being the exception) has ever been, or ever will be infallible, therefore, whatever translation put forth by man cannot be an infallible translation. The KJB translators never claimed infallibility for themselves nor their translation.
I'll probably take some heat from some on this forum for disagreeing with the infallibility of our English bible (all versions included), but first let me say that I am in no way discrediting the KJB. The KJB is my bible of choice when I study, not because I believe it is perfect, but because I believe it to be (one) of the better translations available.
There are other translations that can be trusted, although none are perfect. In order to make such a claim, one would have to take whatever version they choose, do a word-by-word comparison with the Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic to confirm the infallibility of the translators. Other than that, we have to go off blind faith to claim infallibility of any version. I am not a King James Only believer and I would never judge another believer on what bible they choose to read or what church they attend. That is between them and the Lord. Richard, thank you so much for the things you share. You are a blessing to many, I'm sure. God Bless!!!
I will appeal to 2 Timothy 3:16. It states that all scripture is God breathed (by inspiration) of God and suitable for teaching; correction; reproof; etc. That would insure that at the time the 66 books were approved (as opposed to spurious tales such as the Gospel of Thomas) in the Protestant Bible were indeed the infallable Word of God. So in that regard the answer for the King James Version; although it was after earlier versions (Latin Vulgate; Tyndale and Geneva and others) which THEMSELVES were copied from manuscripts which were at best several HUNDRED years removed from the original manuscripts are indeed infallable with the exception of versions that have later texts and some statistical information that may be off from the original manuscripts and earliest accurate historical accounts. In terms of doctrine therefore I would say that I am unaware of any laws or any other important supernatural accounts that are only seen in some manuscripts so that in that case ALL of what we read should be infallable.
Defining the word infallible is helpful. As to what the Catholics consider the Pope to have (and indeed if he WERE keeping the doctrine that Peter himself had as the so called first Pope) that is the standard I am using here. In other words in terms of doctrine he is claimed to be infallible; not to his so called "ex cathedra" statements. These extra sections such as the story between the end of chapter 7 and beginning of 8 in John about the woman caught in adultery involve no doctrinal statement as I said before. We see parts of Enoch mentioned in scripture which indicate that what is mentioned in that snippet (in Jude I think) IS the truth as to what the book originally said; but other parts are not so clear. I believe we are missing parts of some of it as well; but since the whole book isn't in the Bible God in His Providence used men such as those that screened the KJV to preserve His Word and remove spurious writings.
We need to keep in mind what John said at the end of the Gospels about if everything Christ did was written down all the books in the world couldn't contain it ( John 21:25). There is no reason to believe that more texts or true anecdotes about the Lord are out there and may be found at some point. We see the same principle in the fact that certain things are written in only one Gospel; others in all and most in one or two others. We need to realize that nothing is contradictory unless God changed things Himself (such as going from the old to new covenant eliminating; for instance ceremonial dietary laws). We see full explanations; for instance on divorce in Matthew 5 and 19 which are known as the "exception clause" as opposed to Luke and Mark where this "except for fornication" is not listed as reason for divorce and remarriage being constituted as adultery. Again; when we see apparent contradictions (such as the apparent error in numbers killed in some of the accounts of wars in books such as Chronicles and Kings (and apparently in the census from 2 Samuel as compared to 1 Chronicles) further examination usually clears up details. Again much of this may come from issues of later translations (copies of copies) which continued for several centuries before today's versions.
Also we need to see that even Paul in Mars hill used secular writings to describe the "unknown god" and also Cretian writings later on in Acts that described (in no flattering terms) the manner of behavior known about Cretians to hammer home that their own writings summed up correctly their beastly behavior that needed to be mended among brethren confessing Christ who wished to be in leadership. This confirms the factual content being the inspired Word of God just as the account of Satan and all the sins of the Patriarchs and saints. We wouldn't want to emulate them but it is there as 2 Timothy 3:16 states to instruct us in righteousness and scripture is sufficient.
Part Seven: Making the scripture applicable to us.
I do not practice what you call a prophetic gift. Nonetheless, when warning others of the admonitions of the Bible warning of implications and results of sins I usually feel that I have good enough foresight to be reasonably assured that results the Lord warns of will start to manifest in time. Following the principle of 2 Timothy 3:16 we find that exhortation along with teaching and the other things promised in that verse demonstrate multiple aplications of the same scripture (in this case the same verse).
In the example of Jesus warning Peter of a fall; He specifically knew (as God) the exact verbage that Peter would use and that he would deny Christ not once but three times. We certainly know that we can trust God as to the result eventually of any sin is death ( Ezekiel 18:20); and that certain sins lead to a given result (pride comes before a fall such as mentioned in Proverbs 16:18 which is said to be exactly half way through the Proverbs in terms of how the verses are organized in scripture).
Lust after women leads to adultery in one's heart ( Matt. 5:28). Such behaviors of course likely lead to actual adultery and the result for the unrepentant leads to hell ( Prov. 7:27).
It should be common sense that we need to heed OURSELVES to a love of the law of the Lord such as Psalm 119 covers in detail because we are saved from such an awful fate ourselves. We should always fear God (something uncommon today in "churchianity"). (see 2 Corinthains 5:11). Others don't need a pious litany of our virtues; but we need to be examples of God's people in a wicked and perverse generation (see Matthew 16:4-12 as well as the Epistles on the subject).
Another important point is that we must be doers of the Word not just proclaimers (see book of James). Studying the Word and not obeying was brought up already. We need a proper balance of evangelism and quiet times as well as time to rest.
Our SAVIOR, GOD the LORD JESUS CHRIST is faithful in all HIS promises. Whatever we need to accomplish HIS work, HE will provide.
Ephesians 4:
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
2 Timothy 3:
.
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
Although the work may be important, there is nothing more important than to spend a "rest time" with the LORD.
As CHRIST always had a time of rest, and prayer with HIS FATHER; let us do the same that we may be restored spiritually, physically as we await the coming of our KING of Glory, the LORD of HOST.
Ps 24:8 Who is this King of glory? The LORD strong and mighty, the LORD mighty in battle.
9 Lift up your heads, O ye gates; even lift them up, ye everlasting doors; and the King of glory shall come in.
10 Who is this King of glory? The LORD of hosts, he is the King of glory. Selah.
Numbers 6:
24 The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:
25 The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:
26 The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.
Let us be faithful in our study of the word of GOD. We will then be prepared and capable of giving an answer to every man who will ask of our hope and satisfaction in our SAVIOR KING JESUS CHRIST.
We are told of the falling away of people from the faith: however, may we be fully armored to stand against the spiritual wickedness in high places.
Thank you brethren for prayer cover and standing in the gap making up the hedge in for all in CHRIST Name.
May our diligence and maturity in CHRIST JESUS glorify and praise our SAVIOR.
Commitment to GOD'S way will bring us closer to being the type of person HE desires us to be. 2 Timothy 3:16, 17
Titus 2:11-14
14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
We will be able to conduct ourselves in accordance to the mind of CHRIST, heeding the leadership before us. Romans 13:1-5
Being crucified in CHRIST, and knowledgeable in HIS word we are able to go forward and carry out HIS word and make disciples, Matthew 28:18-20; being encouraged, we will go out to reach the lost, 2 Peter 3:9.
May we be faithful in our prayers for the peace in Jerusalem, and for the authority before us,
Isaiah 55:
11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
1 Timothy 2:1-6
GOD to shine HIS blessed face upon us as we put on the new man in CHRIST name, and put off the old man. For if any man be in CHRIST, he is a new creature. 2 Corinthians 5:17
Thank YOU FATHER for the faithfulness of the brethren here on this forum. Help us to be prayed up, and be reminded to wear the armor of GOD daily. Ephesians 6:11-18
Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all. December 21, 2023
Thank you Rainwalker. You are correct, that the same word, 'adokimos' is used in relation to 'reprobate or castaway'. And this word gives the definitions as 'failing to pass the test, unapproved, counterfeit'. So we see a number of meanings that can be given, whether a test is given & one fails it, or to the other, of one being a counterfeit.
Thus if one feels that 1 Corinthians 9:27 might be Paul indicating that if he fails to keep his body (his flesh) under subjection, that when he preaches to others, then God would cast him away; could he then just be a failure, or incur God's disapproval, or even actually be a counterfeit Christian to be relegated to a destiny with other unbelievers?
Then do verses such as Romans 1:28, 2 Timothy 3:8, or Titus 1:16 apply also to Paul if he neglected to keep his body under subjection? And if Paul is deemed to be a castaway (i.e. having lost his salvation), does this then open the door to the Lord's failure to call & appoint His primary apostle to the Gentiles? But as we know, Paul didn't let the flesh or the Devil overcome him - he remained clear in conscience & faithful to his Lord; and this power, could it have come from within, i.e. the Holy Spirit in him, Who helps those endued with the Spirit, to not only do as Paul did, but also to be confident that He will indeed keep them from falling & be presented faultless before the Throne?
It's for such questions & verses in the NT, that confirm to my heart that God makes no mistakes in calling, redeeming, justifying & sealing His children. Readers of those passages will have to satisfy their own hearts & minds as to how to understand the different word usages for 'castaway or reprobate'.
The crux of the matter is that REAL miracles as well as Godly living in Christ Jesus WILL result in persecution and suffering. Such are scriptural concepts ( 2 Timothy 3:12 and other passages). The religious spirit of the Pharisees I am sure still is in operation and thus; hatred will result in true miracles as well as true salvation messages involving repentance and calling sin for what it is.
This would include preaching against ALL sin; including pride and hypocricy of individuals and society at large.
The threat against all of Satan's carefully networked aspects of society are many. Those who proclaim Christ are an economic threat; so a genuine conversion that starts to affect this system will bring imprisonment; no doubt. We see this now with the Pro Life movement; and indeed anything that gains any momentum attempting to restore traditional values. This is by no means unique to one particular political party or members of the establishment. There is economic gain to wars; like it or not by powers that be; just as there is influence by caving into popular concepts today where businesses are willing to forego economic sanity to position themselves with the world as others pull the strings.
We present Christ today; sadly often as a God of our imagination. We may have a vacuum that only God can fill but some never will seek it; and we are ALL enemies of God before salvation. Bringing the church down to the world to fill pews is backwards; we should challenge those who would follow Christ with the requirements of being a disciple and warnings of dangers of falling away for those who would glibly make a confession without counting the cost. Looking at Christ makes it clear; with the exception of the 12 Disciples He never actively sought others; but would often weed out those not willing to forsake all for Him. He had no place to lay His head; let alone a fancy building to preach in. The Son of Man came not to be served ( Mark 10:45)
To avoid them, you have to know who they are. You can't avoid somebody if you don't know who they are. This idea of identifying and avoiding shows up in
1 Corinthians 5:11;
2 Thessalonians 3:6,
2 Thessalonians 3:14;
2 Timothy 3:5;
2 John 1:10.
In other words, Christians, and shepherds in particular, should be discerning and alert to behavior and teaching that dishonors Christ and destroys people - and not treat it in a casual or harmless way.
And then in 1 Timothy 5:19-20, Paul went beyond just "avoid them" to "rebuke them publicly." So, speaking of elders who persist in error, he said, "Do not admit a charge against an elder except on the evidence of two or three witnesses. As for those who persist in sin" - and that can be sin of false doctrine or sin of evil behavior, anyone who does not accept correction - "rebuke them in the presence of all, so that the rest may stand in fear.."
And then Paul went on and actually named destructive false teachers:
"Demas, in love with this present world, has deserted me" 2 Timothy 4:10.
You are aware that all who are in Asia turned away from me, among whom are Phygelus and Hermogenes" 2 Timothy 1:15.
"By rejecting this [faith and a good conscience], some have made shipwreck of their faith, among whom are Hymenaeus and Alexander" 1 Timothy 1:19-20.
"Their talk will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus" ( 2 Timothy 2:17).
Paul names at least six false teachers that the church should watch out for.
So, I infer from Jesus and Paul and Luke and John that false teaching and destructive behavior are present dangers in this fallen world for the church. And all of us - especially shepherds, pastors - should be alert and discerning to identify and, in appropriate ways, expose. In order to protect the flock, we should expose them and minimize the spread of the gangrene (as Paul calls it).
As promised, I'm returning to our discussion that I had to exit due to a lot going on during the week.
Just to recap what initiated this discussion allow me to back track a little.
A few days ago, you responded to me concerning a post I made.
Here's that Post.
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: GOD WAS MANIFEST IN THE FLESH, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, PREACHED UNTO THE GENTILES, BELIEVED ON IN THE WORLD, RECEIVED UP INTO GLORY. 1 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 2 Timothy 3:16.
When "ALL" scripture is Allegorized or interpreted mystically it is NOT able to be profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.
There is the difference.
One is just so happened to be correct.
Christ sheep does not leave the back door open for the wolves to come in because they hate the sheep fold.
End Post.
The first part of that post ( 1 Timothy 3:16) was in relation to a question asked. "Why we do preach the deity of Christ, "though it offends some. "Because it happens to be true!
The second part of that post ( 2 Timothy 3:16.) I mentioned to explain why and what method we use when we reprove, correct or instruct. "We use scripture as it is written without Allegorizing it or interpreting it mystically so it can be put on a spindle so it can be purposely taken out of context.
The third part of the Post is saying, just because one hates the Trinity doctrine it shouldn't cause a true believer to side and promote a false teacher/wolf and a Doctrine they don't believe in. Such as, "believers and unbelievers alike will become gods. Noone by the Spirirt of Christ would do such a thing.
See Part 2 concerning your response and a Holy kiss.
When it comes to our daily walk with God; it is helpful to have those who are more mature in the faith to guide and disciple us.
Those who have exhibited fruit in their lives through long term evidence involved in the ministry; whether leaders in the church or other acquaintances who are laypersons may not matter. Paul states "imitate me" in 1 Cor. 11:1 (easy to memorize with that identifier).
We do well to realize; without being cynical that everyone is subject to Christ and on this side of heaven capable of sin. This means we have to be careful not to put someone on a pedestal whether it be a spouse; or a Pastor. The first issue is whether we are truly desiring to emulate someone because of a personality trait or a genuine spiritual gift. The second; related to the first is if the gift has more significance either to us or the person in question as compared to the "author and finisher of our faith" Christ Himself. ( Heb. 12:2). We need to look through spiritual eyes and not always focus on who speaks the loudest or most eloquently; or makes the rules; etc. Of course we need not to obsess on someone who is physically attractive and all the related desires of the flesh that seek to undo us. Just take one look at the Christian "music industry" to see how clearly that is evident with the appearance of celebrities in all their glitz and glamour.
We need to see objectively how much of our time we spend in church activities along with the rest of our time is really helping us to do the things required of God; namely fulfilling the Great Commission; prayer and meditation on the scriptures. I have stated in previous posts that it is remarkable how much time believers tend to spend socializing when in fellowship and how little discussing answered prayers and scriptural promises fulfilled in their lives due to God's faithfulness. I am convinced this is one of Satan's best kept secrets and ties in with verses such as 2 Timothy 3:5.
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: GOD WAS MANIFEST IN THE FLESH, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, PREACHED UNTO THE GENTILES, BELIEVED ON IN THE WORLD, RECEIVED UP INTO GLORY.
1 Timothy 3:16.
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 2 Timothy 3:16.
When "ALL" scripture is Allegorized or interpreted mystically it is NOT able to be profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.
There is the difference.
One is just so happen to be correct.
Christ sheep does not leave the back door open for the wolves to come in because they hate the sheep fold.
It has been said that the Old Testament is the New Testament concealed; and the New Testament the Old Testament revealed. I'm not sure who came up with that I'm sure a quick search can make that evident.
No one can follow the law perfectly; and if we transgress in one thing it is as though we broke all ( James 2:10 loosely translated). No one can be saved by the law; that is where the grace of God comes in. However; we can't dismiss the significance of the 10 commandments as it is clear that murder and adultery are still sins as seen in numerous N.T. scriptures. Of course most believers don't hold to Saturday sabbath today except for Seventh Day Adventists and Messianic Jewish congregants. There are also ceremonial laws which Peter himself was told to bypass with his vision in the Book of Acts in regard to the meeting with Cornelius; a Gentile.
When it comes to comparing both Testaments cross references and prophecies clearly link the two parts of scripture; not to mention life lessons. 2 Timothy 3:16 makes it clear that all scripture is God breathed and useful for various purposes. There are intersections with Gentiles on occasion (such as Nebuchadnezzar; Naaman the Syrian and perhaps most importantly Melchizidek. God's chosen people came from pagan nations first; then were established eventually in a homeland as Jews; with varying interludes of diaspora during times of disobedience. As I stated before there were covenants made with Abraham that are related to promises for the nation that are eternal. What did change was the Old Testament methodology of sacrifices once the Temple was destroyed in AD 70. Actually once the curtain split at the crucifixion we now are able to worship God anywhere as we have access to the "Holy of Holies" being His temple ( 1 Cor. 3:16). The New covenant promises essentially to give us a new heart which will never drift from Him again ( Jer. 31:31-34).
Hello SLLockhart. I believe the verse that is closest to what you seek is in Revelation 22:18,19. Although, these verses specifically relate to this particular book of prophecy (The Revelation) that no one might add or take away from the words of the Book or else suffer under God's Hand, the Truth would apply to all of Scripture. And 2 Timothy 3:16 reminds us that these Holy Scriptures are "given by (the) inspiration of God", or as in the Greek, "God-breathed"; which clearly shows us that the power & truth of God's Words are given by His Spirit - 'breathed' upon those writers, they being moved by Him to pen these words for all who read or hear them. This then becomes a very serious matter in the reading, understanding, & correctly 'dividing' of God's Word, without forcing any human input which can only bring corruption to it.
Hello friend. I am in agreement with what Adam has just shared with you: that the mention of Mohd or even an allusion to him is nowhere found in this verse, or indeed anywhere in the Bible.
You appear to be someone who is interested in what the Bible has to say to us, even considering the rich heritage that both the descendants of Isaac & Ishmael share from the olden days. In your consideration of this prophetical Book of Isaiah, we need to remember that this book & indeed all the Bible Books are written in an historical & chronological manner. Unlike the Qur'an, where the writings are purportedly made from isolated revelations received over a period of time, the Books of the Bible were written by men moved by God's Spirit ( 2 Timothy 3:16; 2 Peter 1:21), but were given in a systematic historical way. So when we take a verse or portion of the Bible to teach or defend a belief, then we must look at the whole - or else, our understanding will be skewed & we will be led into error.
Since you're looking at the prophecies in Isaiah, if you would care to begin at Isaiah 13:1 right through to Isaiah 23:18, and you will notice a series of denunciations by God against particular lands/nations. Through his prophet Isaiah, God denounces Babylon, Philistia, Moab, Damascus, Ethopia, Egypt, Babylon (again), Edom, Arabia (the part you're referring to), Jerusalem, & Tyre. So when you refer to Isaiah 21:13, the specific passage is from Isaiah 21:13-17, where God's Judgement is found in verse 16, that "within a year, according to the years of an hireling, and all the glory of Kedar shall fail". Even though Kedar was a powerful Arabian tribe, the reference here are to all connected to her. All these suffered judgement under God's Hand.
But at the appointed time, God sent forth His Son Jesus, the One Who came to receive our judgement & punishment upon Himself (for our sins). Without Him we would all be condemned, but those who believed on Him would receive forgiveness ( John 1:11,12).
As we recognize the dire situation in our country as in the current reading; let us also recognize that each of us may become that "... man among them, that should make up the hedge, and stand in the gap before me for the land, that I should not destroy it:"
Let us agree to walk with the LORD and put forth HIS will and commandments first by carrying out HIS promises.
1- Let us confess and repent of our own sins. 1 John 1:9
2- Ephesians 2:8-10 Remember we are ordained to do good works!
3- 2 Peter 3:9 love the lost
4- Matthew 28:18-20 Go make disciples
5- 2 Timothy 2:15 Study HIS word
6- 2 Timothy 3:16, 17 Love, and apply HIS word
7- 1 Timothy 2: 1-4 pray for "...all that are in authority..."
8- Romans 10:1, 2 cultivate the desire and pray to GOD that all might be saved
This is in no particular order and not exhaustive by any means. I am sure the brethren on this forum are able and capable to add to it to the glory and praise of the LORD.
Titus 2:11-14 for while we wait and looking for that blessed hope; for HIS
glorious appearing may we be "...Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;"
Our hope must be only in CHRIST and no one else. GOD to shine HIS face on all who are on this forum and gloriously bless your situation.
interesting...I know about the old English spellings, but I looked at another KJV and saw the word was spelled "thoroughly".
That's why I was questioning. I've seen other differences of that type (other verses than this one) between various KJV copies from different publishers. I was just curious.
No Gumby 713, the 2 Timothy 3:17 verse is not a typo. It's just an old English spelling (back from the 17th Century) of our modern word, 'thoroughly'. Another example of this old spelling is in James 1:2 ('divers'); nothing to do with those diving into the depths of temptations, but our spelling today would be, 'diverse' (many, various).
Thank YOU FATHER for reminding me of YOUR perfect mercy and grace. I can continue forward when I remember YOUR promises to all who are saved and walk in YOUR truth and spirit.
May I remember spend more time to read YOUR word; pray and intercede for our nation; give my time and money for the ministry; tell and make disciples as YOU have directed us to do.
GOD to shine HIS face on all on this forum and gloriously bless us as we go forward and do the work HE has ordained us all to do.
For my GOD is not willing that anyone should perish, but that all should come to repentance and into the knowledge of our SAVIOR, the LORD JESUS CHRIST.
Psalm 119:97 is just one of many verses in this Psalm talking about loving God's law and commandments. We have looked in the last posting about 2 Timothy 3:16 as to the practical truths of the Bible in instruction; but of course without love as Paul stated we are nothing but a clanging cymbal as part off 1 Corinthians 13:1 mentions; and this idea continues throughout what many call the "love" chapter which is often given as a gift to married couples with a door hanging type motif so that hopefully they can realize what they are called to in the Lord. The sentiment of John 14:15 marries the concept of love and obedience together. We can't have God's love (agape) without the truth; and if we attempt to follow the truth without love; we run the risk of what happened to the Ephesian church as described in Revelation in the beginning of chapter 2.
I won't make this study a detailed description of basic codes of conduct for a new believer which are of course needed for a young Christian to study in regard especially to the Epistles of Paul. Maturity in the faith is certainly bolstered by these necessary means; but is not by any means exclusively determined by these instructional verses. We can; for instance find meaning in the book of Esther and Ruth where God isn't even mentioned or just with a passing glance. The faith of both of these women is clearly seen through example. The Song of Solomon; probably the least read book in scripture seems to be an oddity in many ways and of course should be read by mature audiences. Nonetheless the theme of loyalty to the one someone is espoused to is something we can learn from; along with some possible hidden prophetic meanings in, for instance chapter 5; verse 7. In many ways; however it is best not to overspiritualize this one particular book; in attempting to make any direct correlation between eros and agape love for Christ in the sentiment
Section 1: Primary themes of scripture and primary applications
A child could probably read a section of the Bible and learn fairly easily about David and Goliath; Noah's Ark; and major characters in scripture as well as basic scriptures about Christ. We can make two errors related to this topic; the first finding nothing of meaning to us as 21st Century citizens of the USA or other modern civilizations or the opposite-thinking every verse somehow applies to us. Without disputing the 2 Timothy 3:16 concept; we simply cannot find a way to directly relate to David's story fighting a giant or any other incidents involving the genetically mutated offspring of Nephilim; nor can we relate to a command to destroy all men; women; children and cattle in a wartime situation today. In these cases; of course we can apply principles such as obedience being better than sacrifice ( 1 Samuel 15:22) as well as understanding the spiritual dimension which still exists today; even with certain entities already chained in the abyss ( 2 Peter 2:4) being a past event. Still other passages may discuss ceremonial laws which have no practical moral application but would keep an individual out of being part of Israel in the Old Testament times; when certain other Sabbath rules were strictly enforced to the point of death ( Numbers 15:32-36). We also are forced to deal with certain passages such as Deuteronomy 24 and later commentary by Christ in Matthew 5 and 19 which trumpet what Moses permitted due to hardness of hearts but apparently wasn't God's will in the beginning and therefore not "commanded" as the Pharisees presented their arguments in these passages to permit divorce.
In short; I would say that primary themes help tell the story of God's master plan; or, as Navigator's states in the concept Dawson Trotman states "to know Christ and to make Him known." The exclusivity of Christ in such passages as John 3:16 show how to be saved
If we don't have assurance of salvation then of course we are fickle in any witnessing endeavors and it is hard to reflect the hope within us ( 1 Peter 3:15). We must have confidence and as Phillipians 1:28 states And in nothing terrified by your adversaries: which is to them an evident token of perdition, but to you of salvation, and that of God.
Part of this is giving a bold defense of judgment to come as John 16:8 states is how the Spirit works on men's hearts. If we doubt ourselves because of what men think; or somehow think we can dodge verses that state categorically that what is stated in 2 Timothy 3:12 about all who are Godly suffering persecution we are only fooling ourselves. Society today has gone to great lengths to ensure we don't offend anyone but the Gospel IS an offense ( 1 Peter 2:8). Having a proper foundation of scripture is necessary to give a sound testimony. Hell and judgment should be taught with fear and trembling; not with a proud attitude but nonetheless must be preached.
We have made too much of presentation in form rather than substance with a sideshow of music and a "two spoonfuls of sugar make the medicine go down" to quote an old tune probably not familiar to young folks here. Revelation 10:10 states that although it tastes sweet it was bitter in the stomach (in regard to the prophetic words John was to speak). When we are surrendured to the Spirit we will see reactions like the jailor in Acts 16:30 "what must I do to be saved?" NOWHERE in scripture to we see pleading and cajoling for any individual to be saved. God draws all those who He eventually saves; so we should let Him do the work and get out of the way ourselves and any agenda that isn't Biblically sound. Only the Spirit convicts of sin and until it does that work we can only sow a seed. The numbers game where prizes are offered when a certain number of new converts a day make a confession is an abomination.
My last two posts were a general look at accuracy of historical and more recent information as seen through the media and historical accounts. A realistic view of the Bible sees it set apart as having all things necessary for instruction; rebuke; etc as 2 Timothy 3:16 states. We often use other sources such as Foxe's Book of Martyrs to fill in the details; and most of us have the idea that all but one of the original Apostles was martyred. The scripture only mentions James the brother of John killed in Acts 12:2. We can assess from the writings of Paul that he knew his time of departure was at hand; but Acts 28 stops short of his martyrdom. From Christ's words to Peter in John 21:18 as to his fate of martyrdom as well. Whether John in Revelation was boiled in oil unsuccessfully before his Patmos exile is not as far as I know proven.
Often we CAN read into what is not said in scripture. Jesus was basically left out of anything but a bare bones description of his time before His minstry began after John the Baptist baptised Him. I would imagine he was perfect in being a carpenter and all that it entailed but we just need to understand that He fulfilled the law perfectly in His life and ultimately His death.
When we look at Christ's personal prayer life in particular; we see that He knew the importance of withdrawing before certain events and praying all night at times; as He did before picking the Disciples; as well as fasting and prayer which He likely did both practices before upbraiding those who didn't remain proactive in general to be spiritually strong at the casting out of the demon in Matthew 17:21. We don't see ANY indication that any of the Apostles or Disciples prayed before the Resurrection. It doesn't prove it didn't happen but certainly indicates it was probably very deficient.
The Bible clearly does NOT put people but God on display. Even mourning for Moses had to end ( Joshua 1:2).
1 Corinthians 13:10 mentions things passing away when the partial is complete; or something to that affect. Revelation also has verses warning about not adding or subtracting which could mean adding to that book or all scripture. Since the written texts originally came from oratory (with the exception of the 10 Commandments originally penned by God Himself); God planned it out so that the scribes would count every LETTER of a scroll; and get rid of a copy to start again if it was even slightly off. 2 Timothy 3:16 explains that all scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching; reproof; etc.
I have discussed in older posts a summation of the Apocrypha as to truths of historic or moral truths that are borrowed from true scripture; which always states "thus saith the Lord" except for places like Ruth and Esther; or Song of Solomon. God's truths are absolute; as we see from the claims of Christ's divinity; and the laws in the 10 Commandments. The repetitive themes such as scriptures being repeated again in the New Testament to enhance their true meanings bring a cohesiveness to the Bible. We also have such admonitions as 1 John 4:2 stating what any "spirit" testifies about Christ having come in the flesh.
That would correlate with verses like Matthew 16:17 where it is clear that Christ's DIVINITY (as the "I am") can only be understood or revealed through the Spirit. I noticed that myself pre conversion it didn't enter my mind that Christ was God or part of the "Godhead". As our spirit testifies with "his Spirit"( Romans 8:16) that we are His children and His Word is truth the Lord will build our discernment of truth as we grow and mature in Him to know what is true (see also John 10:27).
Proverbs 3:5-6 tells us to trust in the Lord and lean not on your own understanding, but acknowledge the Lord and He will direct your paths. Surely our Creator should know what is best for us; and we should have enough examples of past saints and sinners to guide us and keep us on the straight and narrow path ( 2 Timothy 3:16). Giving up all to follow Him is something that certainly takes trust; that is for God to provide basic needs and the fact that there is heavenly rewards for temporal suffering. Those living as the Disciples did would certainly need encouragement such as found in the Book of Hebrews where it says that we MUST believe He is a rewarder of those who do His will ( Hebrews 11:6). Understanding that comes from above is what allows us to believe that Christ is truly God in the flesh ( Matt. 16:17). God's wisdom through the Spirit unlocks scripture and reveals to us eternal truths about individuals as well as the fate of nations. Many hard to read scriptures have meanings cleared up with cross references; and meditating on the Word day and night helps us to bring these things to mind for our own edification and witnessing to others "in and out of season" ( 2 Tim 4:2).
A general rule of thumb is that there is no (or shouldn't be) any line of demarcation between our "spiritual" lives involving various religious duties and the rest of our work and recreational interests. There is no good substitute for daily scripture studies accompanied by prayer; but there has to be more than just head knowledge. Continuing on the subject of TRUST; other people as well need to be able to see evidence of Christ "on display" in our character and interactions before they go for deeper understanding on spiritual matters. Therefore; we must be living out what we believe and naturally be dividing the Word correctly ( 2 Tim. 2:15). In upcoming posts I will try to demonstrate how to effectively read scripture and put it to use.
I am one who believes in the hard sayings in particular that those who are living in adultery we should warn of their fate and also that taking communion should not involve those who are living in fornication and adultery or any other unrepentant sin involving a lifestyle of sin in particular. In my mind that involves second or later marriages of those whose first spouse is still living which is an issue I am currently dealing with in my church. I am not here going to debate on this particular posting the meaning of the "exception clause" due to "fornication" in Matthew 5 and 19 which is NOT present in parallel passages in Luke and Mark; and further bolstered by passages in Romans and Corinthians.
My concluding concept here is that ALL doctrines according to 2 Timothy 3:16 are important for teaching; edification; etc.
There are always some things debated; and no church has a perfect understanding or is sinless. Nonetheless the things that are clearly taught should be obeyed whether we like it or not to maintain a place where the Spirit is welcome and we aren't in danger of the "candlestick" going out as we see with the Ephesian church in Revelation who abandoned their "first love." This doesn't leave any room for partiality or pride whether it be for our leadership or church members; traditions; etc. It is God's church; not our own. The Lord disciplines His own; and we are being tested to see if we will be faithful until the end. If the enemy comes into the camp; through our own wickedness or the invasion of others then we are negligent in our duties if we don't try to stop it. We do what we can; God may indeed have determined to let a local church fail to fulfill greater purposes; but we need to be jealous for the truth as long as some truth prevails; at least until God opens a door for us to move on; or we are thrown out. The ten thousand dollar question is whether the Spirit is welcomed or locked out.
As of the last week or so in particular I have noticed a plethora of deconstructionist type videos appearing on You Tube. I am not sure if something I looked at recently triggered this; or it is something which at this time is gaining traction (which I would assume in general it is).
I have seen a number of interesting topics on this site recently; but as with the first thing I mentioned I have concerns about endless intellectual arguments that lead us nowhere. That can be true to some extent even with scripture; although I am glad to see so much of it coming up of late with such topics as the Trinity in particular there also needs to be the realization that we never will understand everything about the scriptures and mysteries of God and second there has to be some sort of agreement and there should be unity on the basic concepts of scripture as believers. Without this concept then anyone can throw us off; because even with true faith more questions inevitably arise whenever one is answered. This seems like blind faith to some degree; but I would characterize it as a trusting faith in a God that gives us enough guidelines to remain on the straight and narrow to make it to the Promised Land. We can't always put our understanding as the standard of whether we accept or reject something. We trust that the scripture is sufficient for all doctrine; teaching; etc ( 2 Timothy 3:16 I believe).
Some things for the future are clear enough; certainly there is no end for instance to the Father; Son or Spirit even if we have some issue with eternity past; but in the same token if we start to doubt one thing likely the enemy will cause us to doubt other things. One could look at Predestination in light of this concept as well; whether we believe in free will or not in the end we should agree that God is fair and the number saved and lost will be set in stone in the future even if we don't believe it was in the past.
Just observing
I agree with your application of 2 Timothy 3:16 and your use of the term "God breathed," as the phrase "inspiration of God" is one Greek word that means God breathed. This would include scripture that was in existence prior to 1611. I also agree that defining the word infallible is helpful.
I do not believe that any bible translation is infallible, including the KJV. In order to claim infallibility of any translation, we would also have to believe that the men involved in the translation process of whatever bible we choose to read were themselves infallible. No man (Christ being the exception) has ever been, or ever will be infallible, therefore, whatever translation put forth by man cannot be an infallible translation. The KJB translators never claimed infallibility for themselves nor their translation.
I'll probably take some heat from some on this forum for disagreeing with the infallibility of our English bible (all versions included), but first let me say that I am in no way discrediting the KJB. The KJB is my bible of choice when I study, not because I believe it is perfect, but because I believe it to be (one) of the better translations available.
There are other translations that can be trusted, although none are perfect. In order to make such a claim, one would have to take whatever version they choose, do a word-by-word comparison with the Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic to confirm the infallibility of the translators. Other than that, we have to go off blind faith to claim infallibility of any version. I am not a King James Only believer and I would never judge another believer on what bible they choose to read or what church they attend. That is between them and the Lord. Richard, thank you so much for the things you share. You are a blessing to many, I'm sure. God Bless!!!
Defining the word infallible is helpful. As to what the Catholics consider the Pope to have (and indeed if he WERE keeping the doctrine that Peter himself had as the so called first Pope) that is the standard I am using here. In other words in terms of doctrine he is claimed to be infallible; not to his so called "ex cathedra" statements. These extra sections such as the story between the end of chapter 7 and beginning of 8 in John about the woman caught in adultery involve no doctrinal statement as I said before. We see parts of Enoch mentioned in scripture which indicate that what is mentioned in that snippet (in Jude I think) IS the truth as to what the book originally said; but other parts are not so clear. I believe we are missing parts of some of it as well; but since the whole book isn't in the Bible God in His Providence used men such as those that screened the KJV to preserve His Word and remove spurious writings.
We need to keep in mind what John said at the end of the Gospels about if everything Christ did was written down all the books in the world couldn't contain it ( John 21:25). There is no reason to believe that more texts or true anecdotes about the Lord are out there and may be found at some point. We see the same principle in the fact that certain things are written in only one Gospel; others in all and most in one or two others. We need to realize that nothing is contradictory unless God changed things Himself (such as going from the old to new covenant eliminating; for instance ceremonial dietary laws). We see full explanations; for instance on divorce in Matthew 5 and 19 which are known as the "exception clause" as opposed to Luke and Mark where this "except for fornication" is not listed as reason for divorce and remarriage being constituted as adultery. Again; when we see apparent contradictions (such as the apparent error in numbers killed in some of the accounts of wars in books such as Chronicles and Kings (and apparently in the census from 2 Samuel as compared to 1 Chronicles) further examination usually clears up details. Again much of this may come from issues of later translations (copies of copies) which continued for several centuries before today's versions.
Also we need to see that even Paul in Mars hill used secular writings to describe the "unknown god" and also Cretian writings later on in Acts that described (in no flattering terms) the manner of behavior known about Cretians to hammer home that their own writings summed up correctly their beastly behavior that needed to be mended among brethren confessing Christ who wished to be in leadership. This confirms the factual content being the inspired Word of God just as the account of Satan and all the sins of the Patriarchs and saints. We wouldn't want to emulate them but it is there as 2 Timothy 3:16 states to instruct us in righteousness and scripture is sufficient.
I do not practice what you call a prophetic gift. Nonetheless, when warning others of the admonitions of the Bible warning of implications and results of sins I usually feel that I have good enough foresight to be reasonably assured that results the Lord warns of will start to manifest in time. Following the principle of 2 Timothy 3:16 we find that exhortation along with teaching and the other things promised in that verse demonstrate multiple aplications of the same scripture (in this case the same verse).
In the example of Jesus warning Peter of a fall; He specifically knew (as God) the exact verbage that Peter would use and that he would deny Christ not once but three times. We certainly know that we can trust God as to the result eventually of any sin is death ( Ezekiel 18:20); and that certain sins lead to a given result (pride comes before a fall such as mentioned in Proverbs 16:18 which is said to be exactly half way through the Proverbs in terms of how the verses are organized in scripture).
Lust after women leads to adultery in one's heart ( Matt. 5:28). Such behaviors of course likely lead to actual adultery and the result for the unrepentant leads to hell ( Prov. 7:27).
It should be common sense that we need to heed OURSELVES to a love of the law of the Lord such as Psalm 119 covers in detail because we are saved from such an awful fate ourselves. We should always fear God (something uncommon today in "churchianity"). (see 2 Corinthains 5:11). Others don't need a pious litany of our virtues; but we need to be examples of God's people in a wicked and perverse generation (see Matthew 16:4-12 as well as the Epistles on the subject).
Another important point is that we must be doers of the Word not just proclaimers (see book of James). Studying the Word and not obeying was brought up already. We need a proper balance of evangelism and quiet times as well as time to rest.
Agape. RP
Ephesians 4:
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
2 Timothy 3:
.
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
Although the work may be important, there is nothing more important than to spend a "rest time" with the LORD.
As CHRIST always had a time of rest, and prayer with HIS FATHER; let us do the same that we may be restored spiritually, physically as we await the coming of our KING of Glory, the LORD of HOST.
Ps 24:8 Who is this King of glory? The LORD strong and mighty, the LORD mighty in battle.
9 Lift up your heads, O ye gates; even lift them up, ye everlasting doors; and the King of glory shall come in.
10 Who is this King of glory? The LORD of hosts, he is the King of glory. Selah.
Numbers 6:
24 The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:
25 The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:
26 The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.
Happy New Year, brethren! Our redemption is near.
December 30, 2023
We are told of the falling away of people from the faith: however, may we be fully armored to stand against the spiritual wickedness in high places.
Thank you brethren for prayer cover and standing in the gap making up the hedge in for all in CHRIST Name.
May our diligence and maturity in CHRIST JESUS glorify and praise our SAVIOR.
Happy New Year every one!
December 27, 2023
Ephesians 2: 4-9
May we all celebrate and worship our KING, the LORD JESUS CHRIST by serving HIM as scripture dictates us to do.
By prayer... 1 Timothy 2:1-4
By making disciples... Matthew 28:19, 20
To study ... 2 Timothy 2:15
To know the LORD.. 2 Timothy 3:16, 17
Any many more scriptures to help us to grow in HIM.
Merry Christmas to all the brethren, the LORD to shine HIS glorious face upon us.
December 25, 2023
Titus 2:11-14
14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
We will be able to conduct ourselves in accordance to the mind of CHRIST, heeding the leadership before us. Romans 13:1-5
Being crucified in CHRIST, and knowledgeable in HIS word we are able to go forward and carry out HIS word and make disciples, Matthew 28:18-20; being encouraged, we will go out to reach the lost, 2 Peter 3:9.
May we be faithful in our prayers for the peace in Jerusalem, and for the authority before us,
Isaiah 55:
11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
1 Timothy 2:1-6
GOD to shine HIS blessed face upon us as we put on the new man in CHRIST name, and put off the old man. For if any man be in CHRIST, he is a new creature. 2 Corinthians 5:17
Thank YOU FATHER for the faithfulness of the brethren here on this forum. Help us to be prayed up, and be reminded to wear the armor of GOD daily. Ephesians 6:11-18
Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all. December 21, 2023
Thus if one feels that 1 Corinthians 9:27 might be Paul indicating that if he fails to keep his body (his flesh) under subjection, that when he preaches to others, then God would cast him away; could he then just be a failure, or incur God's disapproval, or even actually be a counterfeit Christian to be relegated to a destiny with other unbelievers?
Then do verses such as Romans 1:28, 2 Timothy 3:8, or Titus 1:16 apply also to Paul if he neglected to keep his body under subjection? And if Paul is deemed to be a castaway (i.e. having lost his salvation), does this then open the door to the Lord's failure to call & appoint His primary apostle to the Gentiles? But as we know, Paul didn't let the flesh or the Devil overcome him - he remained clear in conscience & faithful to his Lord; and this power, could it have come from within, i.e. the Holy Spirit in him, Who helps those endued with the Spirit, to not only do as Paul did, but also to be confident that He will indeed keep them from falling & be presented faultless before the Throne?
It's for such questions & verses in the NT, that confirm to my heart that God makes no mistakes in calling, redeeming, justifying & sealing His children. Readers of those passages will have to satisfy their own hearts & minds as to how to understand the different word usages for 'castaway or reprobate'.
This would include preaching against ALL sin; including pride and hypocricy of individuals and society at large.
The threat against all of Satan's carefully networked aspects of society are many. Those who proclaim Christ are an economic threat; so a genuine conversion that starts to affect this system will bring imprisonment; no doubt. We see this now with the Pro Life movement; and indeed anything that gains any momentum attempting to restore traditional values. This is by no means unique to one particular political party or members of the establishment. There is economic gain to wars; like it or not by powers that be; just as there is influence by caving into popular concepts today where businesses are willing to forego economic sanity to position themselves with the world as others pull the strings.
We present Christ today; sadly often as a God of our imagination. We may have a vacuum that only God can fill but some never will seek it; and we are ALL enemies of God before salvation. Bringing the church down to the world to fill pews is backwards; we should challenge those who would follow Christ with the requirements of being a disciple and warnings of dangers of falling away for those who would glibly make a confession without counting the cost. Looking at Christ makes it clear; with the exception of the 12 Disciples He never actively sought others; but would often weed out those not willing to forsake all for Him. He had no place to lay His head; let alone a fancy building to preach in. The Son of Man came not to be served ( Mark 10:45)
To avoid them, you have to know who they are. You can't avoid somebody if you don't know who they are. This idea of identifying and avoiding shows up in
1 Corinthians 5:11;
2 Thessalonians 3:6,
2 Thessalonians 3:14;
2 Timothy 3:5;
2 John 1:10.
In other words, Christians, and shepherds in particular, should be discerning and alert to behavior and teaching that dishonors Christ and destroys people - and not treat it in a casual or harmless way.
And then in 1 Timothy 5:19-20, Paul went beyond just "avoid them" to "rebuke them publicly." So, speaking of elders who persist in error, he said, "Do not admit a charge against an elder except on the evidence of two or three witnesses. As for those who persist in sin" - and that can be sin of false doctrine or sin of evil behavior, anyone who does not accept correction - "rebuke them in the presence of all, so that the rest may stand in fear.."
And then Paul went on and actually named destructive false teachers:
"Demas, in love with this present world, has deserted me" 2 Timothy 4:10.
You are aware that all who are in Asia turned away from me, among whom are Phygelus and Hermogenes" 2 Timothy 1:15.
"By rejecting this [faith and a good conscience], some have made shipwreck of their faith, among whom are Hymenaeus and Alexander" 1 Timothy 1:19-20.
"Their talk will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus" ( 2 Timothy 2:17).
Paul names at least six false teachers that the church should watch out for.
So, I infer from Jesus and Paul and Luke and John that false teaching and destructive behavior are present dangers in this fallen world for the church. And all of us - especially shepherds, pastors - should be alert and discerning to identify and, in appropriate ways, expose. In order to protect the flock, we should expose them and minimize the spread of the gangrene (as Paul calls it).
AVOID, REBUKE, AND CALL OUT.
God bless
Part 1.
As promised, I'm returning to our discussion that I had to exit due to a lot going on during the week.
Just to recap what initiated this discussion allow me to back track a little.
A few days ago, you responded to me concerning a post I made.
Here's that Post.
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: GOD WAS MANIFEST IN THE FLESH, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, PREACHED UNTO THE GENTILES, BELIEVED ON IN THE WORLD, RECEIVED UP INTO GLORY. 1 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 2 Timothy 3:16.
When "ALL" scripture is Allegorized or interpreted mystically it is NOT able to be profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.
There is the difference.
One is just so happened to be correct.
Christ sheep does not leave the back door open for the wolves to come in because they hate the sheep fold.
End Post.
The first part of that post ( 1 Timothy 3:16) was in relation to a question asked. "Why we do preach the deity of Christ, "though it offends some. "Because it happens to be true!
The second part of that post ( 2 Timothy 3:16.) I mentioned to explain why and what method we use when we reprove, correct or instruct. "We use scripture as it is written without Allegorizing it or interpreting it mystically so it can be put on a spindle so it can be purposely taken out of context.
The third part of the Post is saying, just because one hates the Trinity doctrine it shouldn't cause a true believer to side and promote a false teacher/wolf and a Doctrine they don't believe in. Such as, "believers and unbelievers alike will become gods. Noone by the Spirirt of Christ would do such a thing.
See Part 2 concerning your response and a Holy kiss.
When it comes to our daily walk with God; it is helpful to have those who are more mature in the faith to guide and disciple us.
Those who have exhibited fruit in their lives through long term evidence involved in the ministry; whether leaders in the church or other acquaintances who are laypersons may not matter. Paul states "imitate me" in 1 Cor. 11:1 (easy to memorize with that identifier).
We do well to realize; without being cynical that everyone is subject to Christ and on this side of heaven capable of sin. This means we have to be careful not to put someone on a pedestal whether it be a spouse; or a Pastor. The first issue is whether we are truly desiring to emulate someone because of a personality trait or a genuine spiritual gift. The second; related to the first is if the gift has more significance either to us or the person in question as compared to the "author and finisher of our faith" Christ Himself. ( Heb. 12:2). We need to look through spiritual eyes and not always focus on who speaks the loudest or most eloquently; or makes the rules; etc. Of course we need not to obsess on someone who is physically attractive and all the related desires of the flesh that seek to undo us. Just take one look at the Christian "music industry" to see how clearly that is evident with the appearance of celebrities in all their glitz and glamour.
We need to see objectively how much of our time we spend in church activities along with the rest of our time is really helping us to do the things required of God; namely fulfilling the Great Commission; prayer and meditation on the scriptures. I have stated in previous posts that it is remarkable how much time believers tend to spend socializing when in fellowship and how little discussing answered prayers and scriptural promises fulfilled in their lives due to God's faithfulness. I am convinced this is one of Satan's best kept secrets and ties in with verses such as 2 Timothy 3:5.
1 Timothy 3:16.
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 2 Timothy 3:16.
When "ALL" scripture is Allegorized or interpreted mystically it is NOT able to be profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.
There is the difference.
One is just so happen to be correct.
Christ sheep does not leave the back door open for the wolves to come in because they hate the sheep fold.
God bless.
It has been said that the Old Testament is the New Testament concealed; and the New Testament the Old Testament revealed. I'm not sure who came up with that I'm sure a quick search can make that evident.
No one can follow the law perfectly; and if we transgress in one thing it is as though we broke all ( James 2:10 loosely translated). No one can be saved by the law; that is where the grace of God comes in. However; we can't dismiss the significance of the 10 commandments as it is clear that murder and adultery are still sins as seen in numerous N.T. scriptures. Of course most believers don't hold to Saturday sabbath today except for Seventh Day Adventists and Messianic Jewish congregants. There are also ceremonial laws which Peter himself was told to bypass with his vision in the Book of Acts in regard to the meeting with Cornelius; a Gentile.
When it comes to comparing both Testaments cross references and prophecies clearly link the two parts of scripture; not to mention life lessons. 2 Timothy 3:16 makes it clear that all scripture is God breathed and useful for various purposes. There are intersections with Gentiles on occasion (such as Nebuchadnezzar; Naaman the Syrian and perhaps most importantly Melchizidek. God's chosen people came from pagan nations first; then were established eventually in a homeland as Jews; with varying interludes of diaspora during times of disobedience. As I stated before there were covenants made with Abraham that are related to promises for the nation that are eternal. What did change was the Old Testament methodology of sacrifices once the Temple was destroyed in AD 70. Actually once the curtain split at the crucifixion we now are able to worship God anywhere as we have access to the "Holy of Holies" being His temple ( 1 Cor. 3:16). The New covenant promises essentially to give us a new heart which will never drift from Him again ( Jer. 31:31-34).
You appear to be someone who is interested in what the Bible has to say to us, even considering the rich heritage that both the descendants of Isaac & Ishmael share from the olden days. In your consideration of this prophetical Book of Isaiah, we need to remember that this book & indeed all the Bible Books are written in an historical & chronological manner. Unlike the Qur'an, where the writings are purportedly made from isolated revelations received over a period of time, the Books of the Bible were written by men moved by God's Spirit ( 2 Timothy 3:16; 2 Peter 1:21), but were given in a systematic historical way. So when we take a verse or portion of the Bible to teach or defend a belief, then we must look at the whole - or else, our understanding will be skewed & we will be led into error.
Since you're looking at the prophecies in Isaiah, if you would care to begin at Isaiah 13:1 right through to Isaiah 23:18, and you will notice a series of denunciations by God against particular lands/nations. Through his prophet Isaiah, God denounces Babylon, Philistia, Moab, Damascus, Ethopia, Egypt, Babylon (again), Edom, Arabia (the part you're referring to), Jerusalem, & Tyre. So when you refer to Isaiah 21:13, the specific passage is from Isaiah 21:13-17, where God's Judgement is found in verse 16, that "within a year, according to the years of an hireling, and all the glory of Kedar shall fail". Even though Kedar was a powerful Arabian tribe, the reference here are to all connected to her. All these suffered judgement under God's Hand.
But at the appointed time, God sent forth His Son Jesus, the One Who came to receive our judgement & punishment upon Himself (for our sins). Without Him we would all be condemned, but those who believed on Him would receive forgiveness ( John 1:11,12).
Let us agree to walk with the LORD and put forth HIS will and commandments first by carrying out HIS promises.
1- Let us confess and repent of our own sins. 1 John 1:9
2- Ephesians 2:8-10 Remember we are ordained to do good works!
3- 2 Peter 3:9 love the lost
4- Matthew 28:18-20 Go make disciples
5- 2 Timothy 2:15 Study HIS word
6- 2 Timothy 3:16, 17 Love, and apply HIS word
7- 1 Timothy 2: 1-4 pray for "...all that are in authority..."
8- Romans 10:1, 2 cultivate the desire and pray to GOD that all might be saved
This is in no particular order and not exhaustive by any means. I am sure the brethren on this forum are able and capable to add to it to the glory and praise of the LORD.
Titus 2:11-14 for while we wait and looking for that blessed hope; for HIS
glorious appearing may we be "...Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;"
Our hope must be only in CHRIST and no one else. GOD to shine HIS face on all who are on this forum and gloriously bless your situation.
September 19, 2023
That's why I was questioning. I've seen other differences of that type (other verses than this one) between various KJV copies from different publishers. I was just curious.
Thank you for replying so quickly!
Have a great day, my brother.
Thank YOU FATHER for reminding me of YOUR perfect mercy and grace. I can continue forward when I remember YOUR promises to all who are saved and walk in YOUR truth and spirit.
May I remember spend more time to read YOUR word; pray and intercede for our nation; give my time and money for the ministry; tell and make disciples as YOU have directed us to do.
GOD to shine HIS face on all on this forum and gloriously bless us as we go forward and do the work HE has ordained us all to do.
For my GOD is not willing that anyone should perish, but that all should come to repentance and into the knowledge of our SAVIOR, the LORD JESUS CHRIST.
August 25, 2023 1108hrs NC; USA