As to your question you have received several answers, my understanding in the Bible baptism is done only by immersion as the word means. As Jesse said sprinkling did not start until the 1300s and it was for the reason it was so inconvenient. So, this was done just because of convenience's sake, nothing Biblical about it. I agree with Giannis, and we must believe as Jesus said in Mark 16:16.
All we do is to be done in our Lord Jesus's name, Colossians 3:16-17. Many use Matthew 28:19 but we also see in the rest of Scripture that a person who is baptized in Jesus' name is someone who believes in Jesus as Savior, the Messiah, the Son of God who for us died, was buried, and was resurrected we acknowledge this by being baptized in His name, Acts 2:38Acts 8:12Acts 8:16Acts 10:48Acts 19:5Acts 22:16Romans 6:3Galatians 3:27Colossians 2:12Ephesians 4:5.
Paul shows the importance of being baptized in the name of Jesus, Acts 19:1-6. God has placed Jesus and His name above all that is in heaven and earth, Matthew 28:18Philippians 2:9-11. Salvation only comes in His name Acts 4:12Romans 10:13. The name of Jesus is the source of power and authority for healing, miracles, and deliverance, Mark 16:17Luke 10:17Acts 4:7Acts 4:30Acts 16:18.
We are to give thanks in Jesus's name, Ephesians 5:20. Our faith is through Him and in His name, Acts 3:16. We must believe in Jesus, John 3:16John 6:47Acts 16:311 John 3:231 John 5:13. Whatever we ask for we are to ask in His name, John 14:13-14. We are to pray to the Father in His name, James 5:14. Jesus is our priest and the only mediator between God and men, 1 Timothy 2:5.
Malachi 2:10 Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers?
Mark 12:32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
Romans 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
1 Corinthians 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
Ephesians 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
John 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
1 John 2:22-23 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
Philippians 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Acts 10:42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
Hebrews 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
Luke 18:19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.
What is the meaning of created? Does it mean something that is made out of nothing? I would have to say no, Jesus is the Son of God who was conceived in the womb of Mary, Matthew 1:20Luke 1:35, I do not think I would say He was created.
If so, when did He come into existence?
In God's plan before anything and physically when He was conceived in Mary's womb.
Do you believe that the Son is only human in nature?
Jesus is the Son of God fully human but without sin same as the first Adam, Scripture is clear when Jesus was baptized, He was anointed with the Holy Ghost/Spirit without measure, John 3:34. All the works of Jesus were done by the Spirit of God, Matthew 4:16Matthew 12:28Acts 10:38.
Do you believe that Jesus became "the Christ" during His lifetime (Adoptionism)?
I had never heard of Adoptionism until now, I had to look it up, it's false. Christ and Messiah are the same; Jesus was anointed by the Spirit of God after He was baptized by John, He then was made the Messiah/Christ fulfilling the prophecy in Daniel 9:25. Jesus is the Son of God conceived in the womb of Mary by the Holy Ghost/Spirit.
Do you believe Jesus ever aquired a divine nature in His earthly life?
If you mean a divine nature is to have all the attributes that make God who He is I would have to say no. If so, Jesus could not sin or be tempted, Matthew 4:1Hebrews 4:15. If so, Jesus living a perfect life without sin is meaningless. Jesus could not have died; Jesus was given the power of the Holy Spirit when He was anointed the Messiah. After He rose from the dead God gave Jesus all power in heaven and on earth, Matthew 28:18. God raised and placed Jesus on His right side, Ephesians 1:21-23. Jesus did not return to where He was before, God the Father placed everything under Jesus God's only begotten Son's feet and Jesus will reign until the last enemy is destroyed, 1 Corinthians 15:24-28.
May we be able to discern the mind of the LORD JESUS CHRIST as we go about our daily lives. Doors to be opened for us as it was for Peter and Cornelius. So much to do before I go into eternity or others to pass on without knowing the peace of GOD through the salvation of the LORD.
Let us increase our prayer time, our reading of the Bible, and witnessing to the lost.
Thank you brethren for your faithfulness on this forum. GOD to shine HIS wonderful face on all the saints. Let us pray faithfully and diligently for the "apple of GOD'S eye", the peace in Jerusalem as well as in other war torn areas. The saints in Armenia and the LORD'S mission fields.
Merry Christmas and have a blessed New Year every one. May the peace of GOD be upon you and your family.
Isaiah 9:
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.
Isaiah 30:10 warns about people wanting to hear "smooth things" being prophesied. Such may be the case for those who wish to invoke blessings on themselves for any other reasons than scripturally backed statements. Galations 5:19-21 is one of about ONE HUNDRED verses warning us about those who do NOT inherit the Kingdom of God. This is something also found in Ephesians 5:5; the book of 1 Corinthians; Hebrews; Romans; Revelation AND the Gospels.
To remind God of blessings promised in the Scriptures; if done in the correct way is honoring to God. Without discernment; however we may not be aware of what this means; and also if we are living in a sinful lifestyle we are trying to deliberately ask for something we cannot have as long as we refuse to submit to the Lord and we are producing bad fruit.
The church much like Israel has certain CONDITIONAL as well as unconditional promises. The POSSESSING church (that is those who have the Holy Spirit and are truly saved) is and always will be a subset in this age of the confessing or professing body of believers (i.e. the church). The difference is there are some who believe in the true God and others in a God of their own imaginations; fitting the parameters that a person finds reasonable; or comfortable living with by mentally cherry picking what appeals from the Word and filing the unpleasant verses somewhere in the cobwebs in the back of their mind.
God is no respecter of persons ( Acts 10:34 also Romans 2). He does whatever He chooses and we know for certain that He desires glory for Himself and no other. (See Isaiah 42:8). John 16:10 shows how God seeks glory for the Son; therefore His desire for worship is never selfish as He always does the Father's will. This is selfless love and shows an example of how we are to live. If we thank God for things in our lives that bring us into sin such as excess money for greedy gain ( Titus 1:11); we are only heaping greater condemnation on ourselves.
I agree it's time to let this topic rest between you and me. However, before I go, I will comment on your last reply.
Part 1
In Acts 15 it wasn't the apostles debating over the law or Judaism, (it was them debating the Pharisees).
Acts 15:5-6. But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, that it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses. And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.
Acts 15:22-24 You see the Apostles sent letters against this!
A Disciple is one who follows one's teachings, In Christianity these teachings is taught by the Holyspirit.
We are given Christ spirit to know and perform the things of Christ!
That's why they weren't sent out to the rest of the world until they were filled with the Holyspirit.
The spirit of Christ wouldn't have them continue in Judaism, Something Jesus died to free them from. "The curse of the Law"
The ministry of the Holyspirt is shown here in John 16:12-15.
I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak, and he will shew you things to come.
He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine and shall shew it unto you.
All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
And concerning Acts 10:28, This is nothing to do with the context of our debate. We're debating whether one can lose his Salvation, which later we begun to debate whether the Apostles continued in Judaism "concerning Salvation" This has nothing to do with neither. Infact Acts 10:28-48 shows the opposite, the issue is that he went unto the uncircumcised, and didst eat with them.
It's shown in Acts 11:17-18 that what they believed in and practiced went out to the Gentiles also.
Thank you, brother I will make this short I believe we have come to a point to let it rest. This is something better discussed in person, not on paper things get lost. In Acts 15, it was at least 4 years, after Pentecost when Paul and Barnabas went to Jerusalem because some Gentiles were told they must be circumcised and follow the law.
It is clear they were debating this for a long time it says much disputing before Peter stood up. He said it was a good while ago when God sent the word to the Gentiles. So, this seems quite a few years after Pentecost, and it appears the apostles were still following the law and circumcision.
They were debating not opposing it, as we see in Acts 21:18-31 there is still division, the Jews were still in the law, it says James and the elders were there, these were people who had accepted Jesus, but they were still in the law, (they are all zealous of the law). We also see Peter was an apostle to the circumcision and Paul was an apostle to the Gentiles. When they turned away from Judaism I don't know, in Acts 10:28 they were irate with Peter for his disobedience of the law, and these were apostles.
Our main disagreement is my understanding of Scripture that a person who has accepted Jesus, was baptized, and walking in fellowship with Jesus can intentionally walk away from Jesus and willfully live a life of sin, unless they repent and come back into the light they will perish, will lose the gift of eternal life. For example, the prodigal son Luke 15. Yours is you cannot lose their salvation, it is impossible.
I can give my understanding and you can give yours but not being able to sit down and discuss each verse and flip to others that we cannot do on paper.
God is angry with the nations as well as individuals. Revelation 11:18 begins a discussion of God's wrath and it is accomplished when the winepress is trod alone by Christ ( Isaiah 63:3) which mirrors Armageddon as described in Revelation 19; but also the campaign of the Exekiel 38 war and the nations God destroys in the process.
In such a topic; of course we see other attributes of God balancing things such as wrath and anger with patience and longsuffering of the Lord; for instance. In all this discussion it is important to see how a balanced picture of our Lord brings a better focus as to who He is. We can't just focus on anger or there is no hope for His love; but the same holds true for those who only want to hear "encouraging" verses in scripture. As famously stated we either have all of Christ or we have in reality none of Him. We must take the whole counsel of the Word of God rather than cherry picking what we want as context gets thrown out the window at best with that mindset; and at worst whole doctrinal truths are cast aside. Such is the action of such deists as Benjamin Franklin apparently. The flesh really doesn't even comprehend God's love; for human love and its vicissitudes clearly can't be trusted ( Jeremiah 17:9) as our heart is desperately wicked and who can know it? God judges impartially and is not a "respecter of persons" ( Romans 2:11-16; Acts 10:34). He is entirely righteous and no one can argue with Him once judgment comes. As Psalm 2 states we should "kiss the Son" while He is in the way so that His anger doesn't make us perish (verse 12; loosely translated). God's terms are having Christ as our mediator and High Priest because He can't look upon sin ( Heb. 9:15; Habakkuk 1:13). God will thankfully bring His own people to completion and hence the new heaven and earth will have nations of righteous people serving God; both the survivors of the Tribulation and Resurrected/Raptured saints.
Sorry about the way I stated that..there were provisions; clearly when David and his companions ate the shewbread. This would be related to ceremonial law as to whether something was set apart for sacred or "profane" use (which simply would mean common usage). Since the Levites would eat the sacrifices after proper cooking and preparation it was set apart for God but eaten by men. Such would be the case with the Disciples. In the instance of ceremonial laws we also see provision in Numbers 9:10 of when men were unclean; they could celebrate Passover 7 days later. We see a change of that law clearly with the foods that Peter was commanded to rise up and eat ( Acts 10:13).
Anyway I'm not trying to cause more dissention here. In anything other than ceremonial laws the law still stands. The day of the Sabbath appears to not be something enforced under the New Covenant although some argue it is still to be Saturday; since Christ is Lord of the Sabbath I can certainly see Sunday now as a similar day of rest; although I don't think scripture allows us to force that on anyone. It is the motives of the heart as to healing and the Pharisees adding to what is considered "work" that makes Jews today say for instance that they can't work an elevator button on Saturday but walk up 10 flights of stairs.
I suppose I'll conclude saying that God did instigate the "New Covenant" and in some ways it varies from the "Old" one. One was for National Israel as a political and spiritual nation; the latter of course for the church grafted into the vine so to speak.
ONce in heaven; of course we can't sin but I'm sure elements of the law will be lived out as we have perfect love and perfect peace in the presence of a perfect God.
I'm going to politely assume you grew up Pentecostal and that's when you were told that speaking in tongues was proof of salvation. That just isn't true and I'll show you why.
1 Corinthians 14:26-28 is just saying if you are speaking in a tongue/another language you need an interpreter. Tongues were known languages. You see, tongues is used to say that they are speaking in a language they weren't taught. Proof of this is in Genesis 10:5 where the world was split because of the building of the tower of Babel, and God gave them each a different language or tongue.
Now the New Testament understanding of tongues is that you are filled with the spirit and in turn you can speak in tongues of other languages. That was completely reserved for the first century church and here is why:
1. It was clearly not a sign of salvation ( 1 Corinthians 14:22)
a. It was for the Jews ( 1 Corinthians 14:21) "This people" is God talking about Jews.
2. It was done away with ( 1 Corinthians 13:8-10)
a. "Tongues shall cease": the meaning of "that which is perfect" means the completion of scripture. So when Revelation was finished by the apostle John, tongues ceased.
3. Proof of salvation is by our works and not by signs ( James 2:14-19)
4. Tongues was never received after baptism, but after receiving the Holy Spirit ( Acts 10:44-48, Acts 19:6)
a. After receiving the Holy Ghost they would speak in tongues, it was not when they were baptized.
5. Tongues are not necessary ( 1 Corinthians 14:19)
As clearly seen, tongues were merely a sign for the Jews that was used by Spirit filled Christians which was done away with after scripture was completed; not proof of salvation. Salvation is completely through Christ and Christ alone. Romans 5:8, 6:23, 10:9, 10:23, and John 14:6. You don't need tongues to tell you that you are saved, you need the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
If you would like more elaboration, just respond back to this with your questions.
Verleen, This is for the questions asked about the Holy Ghost. I am a messianic believer of Jesus {Yashua is his real name, Ya=God. Shua=Salvation} I pray I can clarify some of your doubts.
1.{ John 3:16} God so loved the world, that he sent his only begotten son, that whoever believed on him shall not perish but have everlasting life, this is Jesus who was, and still is the savior of mankind, he came to teach us on how we can have everlasting life. he gave us the example that we should be baptized as he was. The Holy Spirit descended upon him and abode in him, { Luke 4:1}, {Mathew 3:16} this was necessary for him to begin his ministry to the people of Israel. It was through the Holy spirit that he performed the miracles mentioned in the Bible. { Mark 5:41} and by whom he taught with authority.
2. The New Testament Church became to being through the four Gospels of Mathew, Mark, Luke and John, these four were witnesses, of Jesus's Divine teachings. Jesus, he told them he will send his Holy Spirit, { John 14:26}, { Acts 2:4}, { Acts 4:31}
Here again, the Holy Spirit enabled them to perform miracles and teach others {also the Gentiles} about the Kingdom of God. { Acts 10:19}
3. There are true Believers who worship God, in truth and in the Spirit, for God is a Spirit so we must worship in the Spirit. This of course is after believing that God sent his Son, as the word says, that whoever believes in Jesus as our Savior must be Baptized in his real name, as the Hebrew Bible instructs us, his name is "Yashua" He is a newborn person, therefore, this born-again person will also receive the Holy Spirit. {Psalm32:8}, { John 16:13}, { john 3:5}. I hope that these verses from the Bible, will help you understand the Importance the Holy Spirit has had in the life of Jesus in his teachings, the New Testament brought about by the four gospels of the Apostles, and to our very own lives today. This is a wonderful promise given to us who believe in the Savior, { Numbers 23;19} God Bless you.
Adam when ya preach water baptism for the remission of sins saves us you are in essence saying the Cross was insufficient.....Thats y the lord was so upset with Peter commanding water baptism.....Telling Peter 3 times what i have made clean ( by the blood of my son ) do not call common or unclean..... Acts 10:15....
All the unclean animals in that great sheet was ( humanity ) the Church that was made clean by the blood of the lamb of God.....Not water baptism that Peter was commanding.....In Acts 11:15.....Once Peter understood the vision he said then i remembered the words of our Lord.....John baptised you with water but i will baptise you with the H.G. and fire......Peter neva commands water baptism again for the remission of sins after Acts 11.....Even in the O.T. without the shedding of BLOOD THERE WAS NO REMISSION OF SINS......When ya tell folks they need water baptism FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS you are in essence saying the CROSS that New COVENANT IN HIS BLOOD was insufficent.....Thats y the Lord was so upset with Peter commanding water baptism for the remission of sins....When Jesus said its finished there is absolutely Nothing else can be added....No kind of a work....k gbu
You stated, "Was Jesus filled with the Holy Ghost/Spirit? When Jesus was baptized what happened? None of the gospels clearly state that Jesus was filled with the Holy Spirit before His baptism Luke 2:40 is close but not affirmative. Why would Jesus need to be full of the Holy Ghost/Spirit? Philippians 2:5-8. Was Jesus the Messiah the Anointed One? Luke 4:18Acts 10:38"
But my query is: Was Jesus baptized with the Spirit during His water baptism (or before that)?
I don't have a clear view on that, because a couple of scriptures seem to say a different thing.
The first is Luke 4:1, "And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness,", also John 3:34, "For he (Jesus) whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.".
But then again in Acts 2:32-33, it says "This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received (this in greek is in the present tense) of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear."
The latter says that Jesus received the Spirit (the promise) after (or at) His resurrection and then started giving It to believers.
So does that mean that Jesus lost the Spirit while on the cross? But then again it says He received THE PROMISE of the Holly Ghost after His resurrection. So what was it that that He had before? Wasn't that the PROMISE? Maybe some other ministry of the Spirit? Maybe like the prophets of the Old Testament who had the Spirit ON them but not INSIDE them?
Or some other explanation exists? I Hope I haven't confused you. So what do you think?
I do not consider myself part of a group other than the body of Christ, it is just me. We should be brothers and sisters without labels sharing our understanding of scripture and inspiring each other to study for the truth and I feel we have done that so far.
The Messiah/Christ, the son of God, the second man, our Lord who came from heaven, the last Adam sent by the Father to do the will of the Father. Matt. 11:25-27 Hebrew 2:9-14
Was Jesus filled with the Holy Ghost/Spirit? When Jesus was baptized what happened? None of the gospels clearly state that Jesus was filled with the Holy Spirit before His baptism Luke 2:40 is close but not affirmative. Why would Jesus need to be full of the Holy Ghost/Spirit? Philippians 2:5-8. Was Jesus the Messiah the Anointed One? Luke 4:18Acts 10:38
The Holy Ghost/Spirit descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, Matt. 3:16-17Luke 3:21-22Mark 1:10John 1:32. God put His Spirit upon him. Matt. 12:15-21 The Spirit remained on Him John 1:33
The Holy Ghost/Spirit led Jesus up into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil. Matt. 4:1Mark 1:12. Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost and was led by the Spirit. Luke 4:1. Jesus returned to Galilee in the power of the Spirit Luke 4:14.
Jesus did miracles by the Holy Ghost/Spirit, Luke 5:17. He cast out devils by the Holy Ghost/Spirit, the Spirit of God Matt.12:28. Also John 14:10 (by the Holy Ghost/Spirit)
The scriptures were fulfilled Luke 4:18-21. The Holy Spirit was given to Jesus without measure John 3:34.
John's water baptism was as you said, God's anointing of the Holy Ghost/Spirit Matt.4:17 Mark 1:11Luke 3:22.
I know you travel, so like Roy Rogers, happy trails to you, until we meet again. Showing my age, I will send more on the rest of part 1 and part 2.
We are not in the millennium it is after His second coming. He defeats the ten kingdoms/countries the army of Satan, the beast, and the false prophet at Armageddon the great supper of God, Rev. 16:12-16 Rev,17:12-14 Rev. 19:11-2. Then Satan is put in the bottomless pit, Rev 20:1-3.
Judgment of those in the first resurrection who will reign with Jesus Rev. 20:4-6, the kingdom is set up and will last for 1000 years, then Satan is released and deceives the world and gathers them, the number as the sands of the sea around the camp of the saints at Jerusalem to the last battle. Fire comes down from heaven and devoured them and Satan is cast into the lake of fire,
Then the white throne judgment of all who were not in the first judgment will be judged and all whosoever was not found in the Book of Life were cast into the lake of fire. Dan. 12:1-3Matt. 12:36John 5:28-29Acts 17:31 Eccl. 12:14
We cannot put the people in 70 AD and the prince in the future. The door of the ark, the men of the city, the lambs of the flock, these things cannot be separated. It is the people that shall come, who are of the prince and this prince is not some future being who had nothing to do with 70 AD.
We know by scripture Jesus confirmed the covenant and we know by scripture He was cut off/crucified and we know by scripture by His death there is no more offering for sin, they ceased, Heb. 10:14-18
Matt. 24:14-15 can also have been for those in 66-70AD history records the believers in Jesus got out and went to Pella, Luke 19:43-44Luke 21:20-21. My other posts should show my understanding is Dan. 9 does not apply to the end times it was a prophecy of the Messiah, Jesus, and the amount of time given to Daniel's people, the city of Jerusalem, and the temple, and the judgment for their abominations.
After the 70 weeks, the mystery of the Gospel that was hidden was revealed to the Gentiles, Acts 8:54-57Acts 9:3-15Acts 10:9-16 Rom. 11:25
I now understand Adam as to what you're seeking. I equated Biblical statements about one's salvation the same as if one stated specifically that salvation was their present possession. But if you require other Scriptures, including the Luke 19:9 you gave, as well as Luke 23:42,43, we could include Acts 16:30-34 (they rejoiced, not because that salvation would be in the future, but by believing they would be saved now). Also, Acts 10:44-48 (the Holy Spirit was poured out on the Gentiles, not just for the Jews; & they spoke in other tongues & were water baptized). Though we don't hear these people (the jailer & Cornelius) saying the words that you require, yet Luke records what he observed, that a transformation had taken place.
As to the "dozens of verses supporting a future salvation", one could examine those verses you gave & find that there is a differing understanding whether those verses speak of a future salvation or of victoriously living out one's present salvation & of eternal rewards.
So, we come back to the whole understanding of salvation by faith, the Work of the Holy Spirit in a believer's life, & living a life presently but not knowing whether God will or will not bring about a salvation at Judgement time. These points would certainly take us away from the point you're raising, but I believe they are necessary so as to understand what takes place when a person repents, believes, & gets baptized by the Spirit. Does the Spirit really even baptise him? Does the Spirit leave & enter him at will? What place does Holy Spirit Power hold in a believer's life? Can we even call him a believer - maybe just a follower of Christ awaiting/hoping for approval on that future day of salvation? These are some of the questions that disturb me if I'm not an assured believer & accepted by God on the merits of His Son's Sacrifice - an adopted child of God now. The question then is: am I saved right now or not till later - maybe?
Hello guys...I was just thinking about water baptism...Which was in the O.T. But it carried over in to the N.T....When he had taken the cup..Jesus said this is the N.T. in my blood...Drink ye all of it...But even in the O.T. They had to apply blood to the doorpost...Not water....Without the shedding of Blood there was no remission of sins...What he did at calvary was a completely new thing...That New Covenant.... Jeremiah 31 :34....And it was not like the old covenant....Not according to the covenant that i made with your fathers....But if ya think that God needs help with his N.C....you are wrong...When ya command water baptism for the remission of sins you are in essence saying that the blood of the lamb was insufficient for some sins...Thats y the Lord was so upset with peter commanding water baptism after that Jesus had shed his blood for humanity...All of the unclean animals in that sheet Acts 10:15 kjv...which was the Church humanity was made clean by the blood of Jesus The lamb of God....Not water baptism lest we make the blood of no effect....Thats y Paul was so reluctant to water baptise....Paul feared that water baptism wd defile this New Covenant, a much different covenant by the blood of Jesus...3 times God showed Peter that vision of the sheet with all the unclean animals and telling peter 3 times what i have made clean....Do not call common or unclean...(By commanding water baptism).....As if the new covenant was insufficient for all of humanities sins...Peter does not command water baptism again after God told him, what i have made clean do not call common or unclean.
Then Peter began to preach being bornagain of an incorruptible seed even by the words of God that liveth and abideth for ever...Which is that LIVING WORD THE H.G. That Child of Promise...That Spirit of truth that is gonna rule all nations....The manchild that is gonna reprove this whole world of sin and judgement and righteousness...Thus the earth will be at rest n full of his glory.
Next. Were the apostles born again when Jesus was with them? John 13:10, "Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all.". So they were "clean". That means they were already born again and saved. Judas here is not called clean not because he wasn't saved but because he was already sinning. How do we know that? Because Jesus washed Judas feet as well, but not Judas' whole body.
So they were saved. Were they w/baptized?
There are so many cases in Acts that show how important water baptism is. The apostles always asked believers to be water baptized as soon as they believed.
1) The incident with Phillip and eunuch,
2) Peter preaching at Pentecost, Acts 2:38, "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.",
3) the incident with Cornelius, Acts 10:47, "Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?",
4) Philipp in Samaria, Acts 8:12, "But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.",
5) Paul himself, Acts 9:18, "And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized."
6) Paul with the disciples in Ephessus, Acts 19:3, "And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism"
7) And most important of all is the commadment Jesus gave to apostles before His departure, Matthew 28:19, "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost"
Please Pray for understanding which Cames from God.
Remember its written in James 1:8 a double minded man is unstable in all his ways.
So, when you came to the alter to pray you are communicating with God and God does hear our prayers.
Remember Cornelius when he was in his room Praying and an angle appeared to him to and said.
(Your Prayers have been Heard)
Acts 10:31
31 and said, 'Cornelius, your prayer has been heard, and your [a]alms are remembered in the sight of God.
As indicated by the word of God, our Prayers are heard and God takes our prayers seriously, In the book of Hebrews we see that the prophets prayed by faith and God answered their Prayers and Shut heavens and no rain poured for three years.
So, it's important when one makes a vow before God to be able to perform it by fulfilling what you have told God you will do.
(For teaching purposes)
For example, a young man once prayed before God and ask God to help him go to a foreign country and he will preach the Gospel to the world. Within few days or weeks God answered His prayers and opened that chance to happen. Now that young man had received his request and one day God opened the chance for His word to be preached around the world though that young man.
Now if this young man preaches the gospel, he will perform his vows Before God. but if he fails to do so then he will be a fool who has not kept his word before God, and a double minded man unstable in his way.
Its also important to note that God is faithful who will also do it.
So while Praying before God be sure what you request you will do it, or else do ask if you know you will be unable to pay your vows before God.
In Acts 10, read what the Lord told Peter when he was on the rooftop in a vision. It was not about water baptism. And we know it was not about food.
Acts 10:17, " Now while peter doubted in himself what this vision which he had seen should mean, behold, the men which were sent from Cornelius had made enquiry for Simon's house, and stood before the gate",
V18, " And called, and asked whether Simon, which was surnamed Peter, were lodged there."
V19, "While Peter thought on the vision, the Spirit said unto him, Behold, three men seek thee".
V20, "Arise therefore, and get thee down, and go with them, doubting nothing:for I have sent them".
V21, "Then Peter went down to the men which were sent unto him from Cornelius; and said, Behold, I am he whom ye seek: what is the cause wherefore ya are come?"
V22, " And they said, Cornelius the centurion, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear the words of thee."
I do not see anywhere in the bible where the Lord was upset at Peter speaking or preaching water baptism.
Show me.
Also, the Lord gave Peter the keys to the kingdom in Matthew 16:19,
"And I will give unto thee the keys to the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven". Peter preached Acts 2:38 & he was not in error doing so.
It says all should be treated the same with no favoritism. A certain political group virtue signals that some of a certain skin color were enslaved by some rich people in their own political group about 150-250 years ago. But all those people are dead. No one they're referring to are alive to give any such reparations back to, except they assume that by giving it to descendants then somehow something is made right? You can't change the past and it seems wrong to steal from one group to pay others who were never enslaved. It also seems wrong to show favoritism and act like if you have a certain skin shade that you deserve more sympathy or more money or pandering. What we see on TV is a circus. The Japanese and Germans enslaved and killed people only 81 years ago, but people somehow aren't demanding money for that, but for something twice as long ago. Meanwhile, there are child slaves coming across the southern border trafficked from cartels and other criminals but people aren't as upset about that either. There are also people enslaved right now in China, countries in Africa and other places that don't have people as upset about either. They are alive, and are imprisoned. There are even people in the US itself imprisoned as slaves who had no trial and just happened to be at the politically wrong place at the wrong time, and they are still alive too. What I see is amazing hypocrisy about money and privilege and victimhood as a form of self-worship as if somehow one who was never a slave was harmed, rather than actually helping current slaves alive now. God bless.
I was not intending to create contention. I just don't agree with Acts 2:38 being the New Testament salvation message. Teaching that water baptism is necessary for salvation and that it has to be in Jesus' name only does not line up with scripture. Paul never taught that. Paul had a much different salvation message.
I have stated my position on water baptism in the past. I do believe water baptism is important, but it comes after salvation, not as a requirement for salvation. In Acts 10:44-48, the Holy Spirit was given before they were water baptized.
Water baptism is a testimony of our salvation and shows our identification with Christ in His death, burial, and resurrection.
In 1 Corinthians 15:1-2, Paul speaks of the gospel that saves.
Hi Texsis. I think D J Grim might be referring to Acts 5:30; Acts 10:39; Acts 13:29. And this is understood as the Cross, the stake bringing death that was once fashioned from a tree.
alex1939...David you are right when Jesus shed his blood on the cross it was a new Covenant in his blood..Impling an internal cleasing of the Heart...which was the baptism of Promise H.G. baptism...The only gift of God...Water baptism was an external cleasing the old covenant..requiring only the blood of an animal...But this New Covenant is by the blood of Gods only son Christ Jesus a washing of the hearts...3 Times its recorded in the N.T. John baptised you with water but i will baptise you with the H.G.and fire...Which is that baptism of Promise ( only 1 baptism of Promise ) which is baptism of the H.G...When Jesus said behold i send the promise of my father upon you it was baptism of the H.G. A washing of the heart...That New Covenant an internal baptism of the hearts...I will give you a new hearts and a new spirit via his seed the words of that NEW COVENANT...Thats y the lord was so upset with Peter commanding water baptism for the remission of sins...Telling Peter what i have made clean ( by the blood of his son that New Covenant on Calvary)...do not call common or unclean.. ACTS 10:12..All the unclean animals in that sheet was the Church that was made clean by the blood of Jesus via that New Covenant...perfectly clean not needing water baptism as peter was commanding....After that Peter understood the vision he said then remembered the words of our lord John baptised you with water,..but i will baptise you with the H.G...An internal washing of the hearts and minds as judgement must begin at the house of God as our bodies are the house of God...John the bap. gave us water baptism and John said behold the lamb of God that taketh away the sins of the world...Even in the O.T. without the shedding of blood there was no remission of sins...Once you understand the enormity of Calvary that New Covenant in his blood you will not mention any other cleanser..There is no fuller on earth that can whiten us like his blood...When Jesus said its finished nothin else we can do.
If I might add my thoughts to your questions to Baker.
In Acts 2:1, "when the day of Pentecost was fully come", we find that the apostles had planned to be together in "one place". We don't find them bringing in their wheat harvest as required in celebration of Shavuot, or even participating in any celebrations pertaining to it, but rather, in waiting together on the appointed day for the coming of the Holy Spirit as Jesus instructed them ( Luke 24:49). So, the mention of them being together on Pentecost, simply meant that that was the day so appointed for them to gather (50 days after Passover).
Acts 10:11-15. It would take time & probably several lessons to completely extract the demands of the Old Covenant from the apostles & those of the Jews who had come to faith in Christ. But the vision that Peter saw & interpreted to him by Jesus, was not confined to clean & unclean foods, but to what the Jews regarded as anyone outside Jewry to be unclean ( Acts 10:28; Galatians 2:11-17). These were no doubt difficult lessons to learn, as things that are not of faith in Christ are removed from our minds & hearts. I know that I had to re-learn & deal with several issues after leaving the old life behind in 1979.
The Commandments. There's a difference in keeping the Commandments & keeping the Commandments to save us. Colossians 2:14, "Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross". I understand that when the 'handwriting of ordinances' were removed & nailed, it didn't make God's Law obsolete & irrelevant; rather, the Law that once revealed to man his sin & condemned him without giving him a plan of escape, was finally nailed to the Cross where Jesus' Sacrifice now brought Mercy & Salvation. Since the Cross, we are to obey every commandment (& many more by the ministry & help of the Holy Spirit) - but those commands that are relevant for those found in Christ.
As to your question you have received several answers, my understanding in the Bible baptism is done only by immersion as the word means. As Jesse said sprinkling did not start until the 1300s and it was for the reason it was so inconvenient. So, this was done just because of convenience's sake, nothing Biblical about it. I agree with Giannis, and we must believe as Jesus said in Mark 16:16.
All we do is to be done in our Lord Jesus's name, Colossians 3:16-17. Many use Matthew 28:19 but we also see in the rest of Scripture that a person who is baptized in Jesus' name is someone who believes in Jesus as Savior, the Messiah, the Son of God who for us died, was buried, and was resurrected we acknowledge this by being baptized in His name, Acts 2:38 Acts 8:12 Acts 8:16 Acts 10:48 Acts 19:5 Acts 22:16 Romans 6:3 Galatians 3:27 Colossians 2:12 Ephesians 4:5.
Paul shows the importance of being baptized in the name of Jesus, Acts 19:1-6. God has placed Jesus and His name above all that is in heaven and earth, Matthew 28:18 Philippians 2:9-11. Salvation only comes in His name Acts 4:12 Romans 10:13. The name of Jesus is the source of power and authority for healing, miracles, and deliverance, Mark 16:17 Luke 10:17 Acts 4:7 Acts 4:30 Acts 16:18.
We are to give thanks in Jesus's name, Ephesians 5:20. Our faith is through Him and in His name, Acts 3:16. We must believe in Jesus, John 3:16 John 6:47 Acts 16:31 1 John 3:23 1 John 5:13. Whatever we ask for we are to ask in His name, John 14:13-14. We are to pray to the Father in His name, James 5:14. Jesus is our priest and the only mediator between God and men, 1 Timothy 2:5.
God bless,
RLW
Malachi 2:10 Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers?
Mark 12:32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
Romans 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
1 Corinthians 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
Ephesians 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
John 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
1 John 2:22-23 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
Philippians 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Acts 10:42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
Hebrews 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
Luke 18:19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.
God bless,
RLW
Part 3 Trinity discussion,
Do you believe the Son is a created being?
What is the meaning of created? Does it mean something that is made out of nothing? I would have to say no, Jesus is the Son of God who was conceived in the womb of Mary, Matthew 1:20 Luke 1:35, I do not think I would say He was created.
If so, when did He come into existence?
In God's plan before anything and physically when He was conceived in Mary's womb.
Do you believe that the Son is only human in nature?
Jesus is the Son of God fully human but without sin same as the first Adam, Scripture is clear when Jesus was baptized, He was anointed with the Holy Ghost/Spirit without measure, John 3:34. All the works of Jesus were done by the Spirit of God, Matthew 4:16 Matthew 12:28 Acts 10:38.
Do you believe that Jesus became "the Christ" during His lifetime (Adoptionism)?
I had never heard of Adoptionism until now, I had to look it up, it's false. Christ and Messiah are the same; Jesus was anointed by the Spirit of God after He was baptized by John, He then was made the Messiah/Christ fulfilling the prophecy in Daniel 9:25. Jesus is the Son of God conceived in the womb of Mary by the Holy Ghost/Spirit.
Do you believe Jesus ever aquired a divine nature in His earthly life?
If you mean a divine nature is to have all the attributes that make God who He is I would have to say no. If so, Jesus could not sin or be tempted, Matthew 4:1 Hebrews 4:15. If so, Jesus living a perfect life without sin is meaningless. Jesus could not have died; Jesus was given the power of the Holy Spirit when He was anointed the Messiah. After He rose from the dead God gave Jesus all power in heaven and on earth, Matthew 28:18. God raised and placed Jesus on His right side, Ephesians 1:21-23. Jesus did not return to where He was before, God the Father placed everything under Jesus God's only begotten Son's feet and Jesus will reign until the last enemy is destroyed, 1 Corinthians 15:24-28.
See part 4.
Let us increase our prayer time, our reading of the Bible, and witnessing to the lost.
Thank you brethren for your faithfulness on this forum. GOD to shine HIS wonderful face on all the saints. Let us pray faithfully and diligently for the "apple of GOD'S eye", the peace in Jerusalem as well as in other war torn areas. The saints in Armenia and the LORD'S mission fields.
Merry Christmas and have a blessed New Year every one. May the peace of GOD be upon you and your family.
Isaiah 9:
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.
To remind God of blessings promised in the Scriptures; if done in the correct way is honoring to God. Without discernment; however we may not be aware of what this means; and also if we are living in a sinful lifestyle we are trying to deliberately ask for something we cannot have as long as we refuse to submit to the Lord and we are producing bad fruit.
The church much like Israel has certain CONDITIONAL as well as unconditional promises. The POSSESSING church (that is those who have the Holy Spirit and are truly saved) is and always will be a subset in this age of the confessing or professing body of believers (i.e. the church). The difference is there are some who believe in the true God and others in a God of their own imaginations; fitting the parameters that a person finds reasonable; or comfortable living with by mentally cherry picking what appeals from the Word and filing the unpleasant verses somewhere in the cobwebs in the back of their mind.
God is no respecter of persons ( Acts 10:34 also Romans 2). He does whatever He chooses and we know for certain that He desires glory for Himself and no other. (See Isaiah 42:8). John 16:10 shows how God seeks glory for the Son; therefore His desire for worship is never selfish as He always does the Father's will. This is selfless love and shows an example of how we are to live. If we thank God for things in our lives that bring us into sin such as excess money for greedy gain ( Titus 1:11); we are only heaping greater condemnation on ourselves.
I agree it's time to let this topic rest between you and me. However, before I go, I will comment on your last reply.
Part 1
In Acts 15 it wasn't the apostles debating over the law or Judaism, (it was them debating the Pharisees).
Acts 15:5-6. But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, that it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses. And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.
Acts 15:22-24 You see the Apostles sent letters against this!
A Disciple is one who follows one's teachings, In Christianity these teachings is taught by the Holyspirit.
We are given Christ spirit to know and perform the things of Christ!
That's why they weren't sent out to the rest of the world until they were filled with the Holyspirit.
The spirit of Christ wouldn't have them continue in Judaism, Something Jesus died to free them from. "The curse of the Law"
The ministry of the Holyspirt is shown here in John 16:12-15.
I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak, and he will shew you things to come.
He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine and shall shew it unto you.
All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
And concerning Acts 10:28, This is nothing to do with the context of our debate. We're debating whether one can lose his Salvation, which later we begun to debate whether the Apostles continued in Judaism "concerning Salvation" This has nothing to do with neither. Infact Acts 10:28-48 shows the opposite, the issue is that he went unto the uncircumcised, and didst eat with them.
It's shown in Acts 11:17-18 that what they believed in and practiced went out to the Gentiles also.
See Part 2
Thank you, brother I will make this short I believe we have come to a point to let it rest. This is something better discussed in person, not on paper things get lost. In Acts 15, it was at least 4 years, after Pentecost when Paul and Barnabas went to Jerusalem because some Gentiles were told they must be circumcised and follow the law.
It is clear they were debating this for a long time it says much disputing before Peter stood up. He said it was a good while ago when God sent the word to the Gentiles. So, this seems quite a few years after Pentecost, and it appears the apostles were still following the law and circumcision.
They were debating not opposing it, as we see in Acts 21:18-31 there is still division, the Jews were still in the law, it says James and the elders were there, these were people who had accepted Jesus, but they were still in the law, (they are all zealous of the law). We also see Peter was an apostle to the circumcision and Paul was an apostle to the Gentiles. When they turned away from Judaism I don't know, in Acts 10:28 they were irate with Peter for his disobedience of the law, and these were apostles.
Our main disagreement is my understanding of Scripture that a person who has accepted Jesus, was baptized, and walking in fellowship with Jesus can intentionally walk away from Jesus and willfully live a life of sin, unless they repent and come back into the light they will perish, will lose the gift of eternal life. For example, the prodigal son Luke 15. Yours is you cannot lose their salvation, it is impossible.
I can give my understanding and you can give yours but not being able to sit down and discuss each verse and flip to others that we cannot do on paper.
Have a wonderful evening and a great week.
God bless,
RLW
God is angry with the nations as well as individuals. Revelation 11:18 begins a discussion of God's wrath and it is accomplished when the winepress is trod alone by Christ ( Isaiah 63:3) which mirrors Armageddon as described in Revelation 19; but also the campaign of the Exekiel 38 war and the nations God destroys in the process.
In such a topic; of course we see other attributes of God balancing things such as wrath and anger with patience and longsuffering of the Lord; for instance. In all this discussion it is important to see how a balanced picture of our Lord brings a better focus as to who He is. We can't just focus on anger or there is no hope for His love; but the same holds true for those who only want to hear "encouraging" verses in scripture. As famously stated we either have all of Christ or we have in reality none of Him. We must take the whole counsel of the Word of God rather than cherry picking what we want as context gets thrown out the window at best with that mindset; and at worst whole doctrinal truths are cast aside. Such is the action of such deists as Benjamin Franklin apparently. The flesh really doesn't even comprehend God's love; for human love and its vicissitudes clearly can't be trusted ( Jeremiah 17:9) as our heart is desperately wicked and who can know it? God judges impartially and is not a "respecter of persons" ( Romans 2:11-16; Acts 10:34). He is entirely righteous and no one can argue with Him once judgment comes. As Psalm 2 states we should "kiss the Son" while He is in the way so that His anger doesn't make us perish (verse 12; loosely translated). God's terms are having Christ as our mediator and High Priest because He can't look upon sin ( Heb. 9:15; Habakkuk 1:13). God will thankfully bring His own people to completion and hence the new heaven and earth will have nations of righteous people serving God; both the survivors of the Tribulation and Resurrected/Raptured saints.
Anyway I'm not trying to cause more dissention here. In anything other than ceremonial laws the law still stands. The day of the Sabbath appears to not be something enforced under the New Covenant although some argue it is still to be Saturday; since Christ is Lord of the Sabbath I can certainly see Sunday now as a similar day of rest; although I don't think scripture allows us to force that on anyone. It is the motives of the heart as to healing and the Pharisees adding to what is considered "work" that makes Jews today say for instance that they can't work an elevator button on Saturday but walk up 10 flights of stairs.
I suppose I'll conclude saying that God did instigate the "New Covenant" and in some ways it varies from the "Old" one. One was for National Israel as a political and spiritual nation; the latter of course for the church grafted into the vine so to speak.
ONce in heaven; of course we can't sin but I'm sure elements of the law will be lived out as we have perfect love and perfect peace in the presence of a perfect God.
Agape; Rich P
Luke 24:47,48 Jesus said!
Mark 16:16,17 Jesus said!
Acts 2:38,39 Peter preached what Jesus said!
Acts 4:12 No other name!
John 3:1-6 Must be born again of the water & Spirit!
1 Peter 3:21 Baptism saves us!
Acts 10:44-48 Can't be good enough without Jesus!
Acts 8:1-6 Ethiopian Eunic gets baptized in Jesus name and starts a 2000 plus year revival still going on today !
Acts 19:1-6 have you received the Holy Ghost since you been a believer?
Acts 5:32 gotta obey Him!
1 Corinthians 14:2,22,39 tongues are for a sign!
Acts 2:4 The Spirit gives the utterance!
Acts 1:8 Receive power !
John 21:15 Jesus loves you dearly!!!!!!!
1 Corinthians 14:26-28 is just saying if you are speaking in a tongue/another language you need an interpreter. Tongues were known languages. You see, tongues is used to say that they are speaking in a language they weren't taught. Proof of this is in Genesis 10:5 where the world was split because of the building of the tower of Babel, and God gave them each a different language or tongue.
Now the New Testament understanding of tongues is that you are filled with the spirit and in turn you can speak in tongues of other languages. That was completely reserved for the first century church and here is why:
1. It was clearly not a sign of salvation ( 1 Corinthians 14:22)
a. It was for the Jews ( 1 Corinthians 14:21) "This people" is God talking about Jews.
2. It was done away with ( 1 Corinthians 13:8-10)
a. "Tongues shall cease": the meaning of "that which is perfect" means the completion of scripture. So when Revelation was finished by the apostle John, tongues ceased.
3. Proof of salvation is by our works and not by signs ( James 2:14-19)
4. Tongues was never received after baptism, but after receiving the Holy Spirit ( Acts 10:44-48, Acts 19:6)
a. After receiving the Holy Ghost they would speak in tongues, it was not when they were baptized.
5. Tongues are not necessary ( 1 Corinthians 14:19)
As clearly seen, tongues were merely a sign for the Jews that was used by Spirit filled Christians which was done away with after scripture was completed; not proof of salvation. Salvation is completely through Christ and Christ alone. Romans 5:8, 6:23, 10:9, 10:23, and John 14:6. You don't need tongues to tell you that you are saved, you need the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
If you would like more elaboration, just respond back to this with your questions.
1.{ John 3:16} God so loved the world, that he sent his only begotten son, that whoever believed on him shall not perish but have everlasting life, this is Jesus who was, and still is the savior of mankind, he came to teach us on how we can have everlasting life. he gave us the example that we should be baptized as he was. The Holy Spirit descended upon him and abode in him, { Luke 4:1}, {Mathew 3:16} this was necessary for him to begin his ministry to the people of Israel. It was through the Holy spirit that he performed the miracles mentioned in the Bible. { Mark 5:41} and by whom he taught with authority.
2. The New Testament Church became to being through the four Gospels of Mathew, Mark, Luke and John, these four were witnesses, of Jesus's Divine teachings. Jesus, he told them he will send his Holy Spirit, { John 14:26}, { Acts 2:4}, { Acts 4:31}
Here again, the Holy Spirit enabled them to perform miracles and teach others {also the Gentiles} about the Kingdom of God. { Acts 10:19}
3. There are true Believers who worship God, in truth and in the Spirit, for God is a Spirit so we must worship in the Spirit. This of course is after believing that God sent his Son, as the word says, that whoever believes in Jesus as our Savior must be Baptized in his real name, as the Hebrew Bible instructs us, his name is "Yashua" He is a newborn person, therefore, this born-again person will also receive the Holy Spirit. {Psalm32:8}, { John 16:13}, { john 3:5}. I hope that these verses from the Bible, will help you understand the Importance the Holy Spirit has had in the life of Jesus in his teachings, the New Testament brought about by the four gospels of the Apostles, and to our very own lives today. This is a wonderful promise given to us who believe in the Savior, { Numbers 23;19} God Bless you.
All the unclean animals in that great sheet was ( humanity ) the Church that was made clean by the blood of the lamb of God.....Not water baptism that Peter was commanding.....In Acts 11:15.....Once Peter understood the vision he said then i remembered the words of our Lord.....John baptised you with water but i will baptise you with the H.G. and fire......Peter neva commands water baptism again for the remission of sins after Acts 11.....Even in the O.T. without the shedding of BLOOD THERE WAS NO REMISSION OF SINS......When ya tell folks they need water baptism FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS you are in essence saying the CROSS that New COVENANT IN HIS BLOOD was insufficent.....Thats y the Lord was so upset with Peter commanding water baptism for the remission of sins....When Jesus said its finished there is absolutely Nothing else can be added....No kind of a work....k gbu
You stated, "Was Jesus filled with the Holy Ghost/Spirit? When Jesus was baptized what happened? None of the gospels clearly state that Jesus was filled with the Holy Spirit before His baptism Luke 2:40 is close but not affirmative. Why would Jesus need to be full of the Holy Ghost/Spirit? Philippians 2:5-8. Was Jesus the Messiah the Anointed One? Luke 4:18 Acts 10:38"
But my query is: Was Jesus baptized with the Spirit during His water baptism (or before that)?
I don't have a clear view on that, because a couple of scriptures seem to say a different thing.
The first is Luke 4:1, "And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness,", also John 3:34, "For he (Jesus) whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.".
But then again in Acts 2:32-33, it says "This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received (this in greek is in the present tense) of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear."
The latter says that Jesus received the Spirit (the promise) after (or at) His resurrection and then started giving It to believers.
So does that mean that Jesus lost the Spirit while on the cross? But then again it says He received THE PROMISE of the Holly Ghost after His resurrection. So what was it that that He had before? Wasn't that the PROMISE? Maybe some other ministry of the Spirit? Maybe like the prophets of the Old Testament who had the Spirit ON them but not INSIDE them?
Or some other explanation exists? I Hope I haven't confused you. So what do you think?
Others are welvome to answer, too?
GBU
I do not consider myself part of a group other than the body of Christ, it is just me. We should be brothers and sisters without labels sharing our understanding of scripture and inspiring each other to study for the truth and I feel we have done that so far.
The Messiah/Christ, the son of God, the second man, our Lord who came from heaven, the last Adam sent by the Father to do the will of the Father. Matt. 11:25-27 Hebrew 2:9-14
Was Jesus filled with the Holy Ghost/Spirit? When Jesus was baptized what happened? None of the gospels clearly state that Jesus was filled with the Holy Spirit before His baptism Luke 2:40 is close but not affirmative. Why would Jesus need to be full of the Holy Ghost/Spirit? Philippians 2:5-8. Was Jesus the Messiah the Anointed One? Luke 4:18 Acts 10:38
The Holy Ghost/Spirit descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, Matt. 3:16-17 Luke 3:21-22 Mark 1:10 John 1:32. God put His Spirit upon him. Matt. 12:15-21 The Spirit remained on Him John 1:33
The Holy Ghost/Spirit led Jesus up into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil. Matt. 4:1 Mark 1:12. Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost and was led by the Spirit. Luke 4:1. Jesus returned to Galilee in the power of the Spirit Luke 4:14.
Jesus did miracles by the Holy Ghost/Spirit, Luke 5:17. He cast out devils by the Holy Ghost/Spirit, the Spirit of God Matt.12:28. Also John 14:10 (by the Holy Ghost/Spirit)
The scriptures were fulfilled Luke 4:18-21. The Holy Spirit was given to Jesus without measure John 3:34.
John's water baptism was as you said, God's anointing of the Holy Ghost/Spirit Matt.4:17 Mark 1:11 Luke 3:22.
I know you travel, so like Roy Rogers, happy trails to you, until we meet again. Showing my age, I will send more on the rest of part 1 and part 2.
God bless,
RLW
We are not in the millennium it is after His second coming. He defeats the ten kingdoms/countries the army of Satan, the beast, and the false prophet at Armageddon the great supper of God, Rev. 16:12-16 Rev,17:12-14 Rev. 19:11-2. Then Satan is put in the bottomless pit, Rev 20:1-3.
Judgment of those in the first resurrection who will reign with Jesus Rev. 20:4-6, the kingdom is set up and will last for 1000 years, then Satan is released and deceives the world and gathers them, the number as the sands of the sea around the camp of the saints at Jerusalem to the last battle. Fire comes down from heaven and devoured them and Satan is cast into the lake of fire,
Then the white throne judgment of all who were not in the first judgment will be judged and all whosoever was not found in the Book of Life were cast into the lake of fire. Dan. 12:1-3 Matt. 12:36 John 5:28-29 Acts 17:31 Eccl. 12:14
We cannot put the people in 70 AD and the prince in the future. The door of the ark, the men of the city, the lambs of the flock, these things cannot be separated. It is the people that shall come, who are of the prince and this prince is not some future being who had nothing to do with 70 AD.
We know by scripture Jesus confirmed the covenant and we know by scripture He was cut off/crucified and we know by scripture by His death there is no more offering for sin, they ceased, Heb. 10:14-18
Matt. 24:14-15 can also have been for those in 66-70AD history records the believers in Jesus got out and went to Pella, Luke 19:43-44 Luke 21:20-21. My other posts should show my understanding is Dan. 9 does not apply to the end times it was a prophecy of the Messiah, Jesus, and the amount of time given to Daniel's people, the city of Jerusalem, and the temple, and the judgment for their abominations.
After the 70 weeks, the mystery of the Gospel that was hidden was revealed to the Gentiles, Acts 8:54-57 Acts 9:3-15 Acts 10:9-16 Rom. 11:25
God bless,
RLW
As to the "dozens of verses supporting a future salvation", one could examine those verses you gave & find that there is a differing understanding whether those verses speak of a future salvation or of victoriously living out one's present salvation & of eternal rewards.
So, we come back to the whole understanding of salvation by faith, the Work of the Holy Spirit in a believer's life, & living a life presently but not knowing whether God will or will not bring about a salvation at Judgement time. These points would certainly take us away from the point you're raising, but I believe they are necessary so as to understand what takes place when a person repents, believes, & gets baptized by the Spirit. Does the Spirit really even baptise him? Does the Spirit leave & enter him at will? What place does Holy Spirit Power hold in a believer's life? Can we even call him a believer - maybe just a follower of Christ awaiting/hoping for approval on that future day of salvation? These are some of the questions that disturb me if I'm not an assured believer & accepted by God on the merits of His Son's Sacrifice - an adopted child of God now. The question then is: am I saved right now or not till later - maybe?
Then Peter began to preach being bornagain of an incorruptible seed even by the words of God that liveth and abideth for ever...Which is that LIVING WORD THE H.G. That Child of Promise...That Spirit of truth that is gonna rule all nations....The manchild that is gonna reprove this whole world of sin and judgement and righteousness...Thus the earth will be at rest n full of his glory.
Next. Were the apostles born again when Jesus was with them? John 13:10, "Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all.". So they were "clean". That means they were already born again and saved. Judas here is not called clean not because he wasn't saved but because he was already sinning. How do we know that? Because Jesus washed Judas feet as well, but not Judas' whole body.
So they were saved. Were they w/baptized?
There are so many cases in Acts that show how important water baptism is. The apostles always asked believers to be water baptized as soon as they believed.
1) The incident with Phillip and eunuch,
2) Peter preaching at Pentecost, Acts 2:38, "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.",
3) the incident with Cornelius, Acts 10:47, "Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?",
4) Philipp in Samaria, Acts 8:12, "But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.",
5) Paul himself, Acts 9:18, "And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized."
6) Paul with the disciples in Ephessus, Acts 19:3, "And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism"
7) And most important of all is the commadment Jesus gave to apostles before His departure, Matthew 28:19, "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost"
Advocate 1 John 2:1
Shephard & Bishop of souls I Peter 2:25
Man of sorrows Isa 53.3
Judge Acts 10:42
Faithful and True Witness Rev 3:14
Head of the Church Eph 5:23
Rock 1 Corth 10:4
High Priest Heb 6:20
Master Matt 8:19
Living Water John 4:10
Rose of Sharon Song of Solomon 2:1
Alpha and Omega Rev 22:13
Lamb of God John 1:29 Messiah Daniel 9:25
Mediator I Tim 2:5
Teacher John 3:2
Author and Finisher of our Faith Heb 12:2
Image of the invisible God Col 1:15
Everlasting Father Isa 9:6
The Word John 1:1
Holy One Mark 1:24
Light of the world John 8:12
Lion of the tribe of Judah Rev 5: 5
LORD OF LORDS I Tim 6:15
The Beloved Eph 1:6
Carpenter Mark 6:3 The Almighty Rev 21:
Shiloh Gen 49:10
The Way, the Truth and The Life John 14:16
Bright and Morning Star Rev 22:16
Good Shepherd John 10:11
Son of Man Matt 20:28
Only Begotten Son John 3:16
King Of Kings 1 Tim 6:15
Prince of Peace Isa 9:6
Bridegroom Matt 9:15
Dayspring Luke 1:78
Saviour of the world Eph 5:23
Immanuel Luke 1:78 & Matt 1:23
Wonderful Counselor Isa 9:6
I AM John 8:58
The Door John 10:9
The True Vine John 15:1
King of the Jews Mark 15:26
Prophet Matt 21:11
Redeemer Job 19:25
Saviour Isa 45:15 , John 42:2, 1 Tim 4:10
The Amen Rev 3:14
The Living God
Anchor Heb 6:19
The BRANCH Zech 6:12
Bread of Life John 6:15
The Resurrection & Life John 11.25
The Living God, who is the Saviour of all men,
Deuteronomy 12:15
Hi
Please Pray for understanding which Cames from God.
Remember its written in James 1:8 a double minded man is unstable in all his ways.
So, when you came to the alter to pray you are communicating with God and God does hear our prayers.
Remember Cornelius when he was in his room Praying and an angle appeared to him to and said.
(Your Prayers have been Heard)
Acts 10:31
31 and said, 'Cornelius, your prayer has been heard, and your [a]alms are remembered in the sight of God.
As indicated by the word of God, our Prayers are heard and God takes our prayers seriously, In the book of Hebrews we see that the prophets prayed by faith and God answered their Prayers and Shut heavens and no rain poured for three years.
So, it's important when one makes a vow before God to be able to perform it by fulfilling what you have told God you will do.
(For teaching purposes)
For example, a young man once prayed before God and ask God to help him go to a foreign country and he will preach the Gospel to the world. Within few days or weeks God answered His prayers and opened that chance to happen. Now that young man had received his request and one day God opened the chance for His word to be preached around the world though that young man.
Now if this young man preaches the gospel, he will perform his vows Before God. but if he fails to do so then he will be a fool who has not kept his word before God, and a double minded man unstable in his way.
Its also important to note that God is faithful who will also do it.
So while Praying before God be sure what you request you will do it, or else do ask if you know you will be unable to pay your vows before God.
Acts 10:17, " Now while peter doubted in himself what this vision which he had seen should mean, behold, the men which were sent from Cornelius had made enquiry for Simon's house, and stood before the gate",
V18, " And called, and asked whether Simon, which was surnamed Peter, were lodged there."
V19, "While Peter thought on the vision, the Spirit said unto him, Behold, three men seek thee".
V20, "Arise therefore, and get thee down, and go with them, doubting nothing:for I have sent them".
V21, "Then Peter went down to the men which were sent unto him from Cornelius; and said, Behold, I am he whom ye seek: what is the cause wherefore ya are come?"
V22, " And they said, Cornelius the centurion, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear the words of thee."
I do not see anywhere in the bible where the Lord was upset at Peter speaking or preaching water baptism.
Show me.
Also, the Lord gave Peter the keys to the kingdom in Matthew 16:19,
"And I will give unto thee the keys to the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven". Peter preached Acts 2:38 & he was not in error doing so.
James 2:9
Romans 2:11
James 2:1-26
Deuteronomy 10:17
Galatians 3:28
Acts 10:34
It says all should be treated the same with no favoritism. A certain political group virtue signals that some of a certain skin color were enslaved by some rich people in their own political group about 150-250 years ago. But all those people are dead. No one they're referring to are alive to give any such reparations back to, except they assume that by giving it to descendants then somehow something is made right? You can't change the past and it seems wrong to steal from one group to pay others who were never enslaved. It also seems wrong to show favoritism and act like if you have a certain skin shade that you deserve more sympathy or more money or pandering. What we see on TV is a circus. The Japanese and Germans enslaved and killed people only 81 years ago, but people somehow aren't demanding money for that, but for something twice as long ago. Meanwhile, there are child slaves coming across the southern border trafficked from cartels and other criminals but people aren't as upset about that either. There are also people enslaved right now in China, countries in Africa and other places that don't have people as upset about either. They are alive, and are imprisoned. There are even people in the US itself imprisoned as slaves who had no trial and just happened to be at the politically wrong place at the wrong time, and they are still alive too. What I see is amazing hypocrisy about money and privilege and victimhood as a form of self-worship as if somehow one who was never a slave was harmed, rather than actually helping current slaves alive now. God bless.
I was not intending to create contention. I just don't agree with Acts 2:38 being the New Testament salvation message. Teaching that water baptism is necessary for salvation and that it has to be in Jesus' name only does not line up with scripture. Paul never taught that. Paul had a much different salvation message.
I have stated my position on water baptism in the past. I do believe water baptism is important, but it comes after salvation, not as a requirement for salvation. In Acts 10:44-48, the Holy Spirit was given before they were water baptized.
Water baptism is a testimony of our salvation and shows our identification with Christ in His death, burial, and resurrection.
In 1 Corinthians 15:1-2, Paul speaks of the gospel that saves.
Mark 16:16,17
Luke 24:47,48
John 3:1-6
Acts 2:38
1 Peter 3:21
Acts 19:1-6
Acts 10:44-48
Acts 5:32
1 Corinthians 14:2,22,39
Acts 2:4
Acts 1:8
John 21:15,16
In Acts 2:1, "when the day of Pentecost was fully come", we find that the apostles had planned to be together in "one place". We don't find them bringing in their wheat harvest as required in celebration of Shavuot, or even participating in any celebrations pertaining to it, but rather, in waiting together on the appointed day for the coming of the Holy Spirit as Jesus instructed them ( Luke 24:49). So, the mention of them being together on Pentecost, simply meant that that was the day so appointed for them to gather (50 days after Passover).
Acts 10:11-15. It would take time & probably several lessons to completely extract the demands of the Old Covenant from the apostles & those of the Jews who had come to faith in Christ. But the vision that Peter saw & interpreted to him by Jesus, was not confined to clean & unclean foods, but to what the Jews regarded as anyone outside Jewry to be unclean ( Acts 10:28; Galatians 2:11-17). These were no doubt difficult lessons to learn, as things that are not of faith in Christ are removed from our minds & hearts. I know that I had to re-learn & deal with several issues after leaving the old life behind in 1979.
The Commandments. There's a difference in keeping the Commandments & keeping the Commandments to save us. Colossians 2:14, "Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross". I understand that when the 'handwriting of ordinances' were removed & nailed, it didn't make God's Law obsolete & irrelevant; rather, the Law that once revealed to man his sin & condemned him without giving him a plan of escape, was finally nailed to the Cross where Jesus' Sacrifice now brought Mercy & Salvation. Since the Cross, we are to obey every commandment (& many more by the ministry & help of the Holy Spirit) - but those commands that are relevant for those found in Christ.