Hi Jema: I know I'm a bit late replying to this but I just now read the whole thread of what happened and I am so glad you and GiGi and Giannis are good to go with each other and I'm sorry my reaction was so strong and I caused trouble. I'm trying not to do that again. I am back to discussing the Sabbath with Giannis again, unless he doesn't want to then I won't. The only reason I continue to discuss the Sabbath is because (I'm not insulting Giannis, only stating my perception of these discussions and why I'm hanging on like a Pitbull LOL.) I don't feel like he has responded to my questions about why he believes that the breaking of bread can only mean the weekly service of the Early Church - that there can be no other possible interpretation. All his beliefs in the Early Church abandoning the Sabbath for Sunday worship are based on the breaking of bread premise that it had to only mean that it refers to the weekly meeting of the Early Church. Some scriptures do state that the Church met on the first day of the week, Sunday but that could just simply mean the church met on Sunday at different times other then on the Sabbath just as churches meet on different days today. For example, John 20:19 (the Church gathered together on the first day of the week because they were afraid of the Jews, not because it was time for church.) Giannis also used historical writings to back up his belief that the Early Church stopped worshipping on the Sabbath and I couldn't agree to that. (Giannis if you read this post, please don't think I am talking behind your back. I would never do that I am just trying to explain why I haven't given up on the Sabbath.) He asked me to provide scripture that validated they didn't give up on the Sabbath and I gave him a lot but he just wouldn't accept them with no real response why. All you have to do read these few and you can see that the Early church was keeping the Sabbath holy.. Acts 17:2, Acts 13:14, Acts 15:21, Acts 18:4. God Bless :)
Acts 20:7 makes clear that gathering of the saints occurred on the first day of the week to bolster the collection made according to 1 Corinthians 16:2. The prescident is really from the fact that Christ fulfilled Pentacost which was the 8th day of the week (or Sunday) in the O.T. times was celebrated 50 days after the Passover.
Since we are not to have certain days to be held above others as Romans 14:5-6 indicates; we have no right to dictate either Saturday or Sunday for worship as I see it. Again; the Old Testament command was for Israel specifically as anyone in the land who disrespected the Sabbath was severely punished (see Deuteronomy 5:14). Other laws in the Old Testament such as marriage were clearly upheld even with pagan societies (as we see with the case of John the Baptist when he was imprisoned for contesting with the marriage status of a secular leader married to his brother's wife). Murder was evident with Cain well before the law came out. The fact is that Saturday worship can no longer be as it was without the sacrifices and other ordinances of the O.T. times which have been gone since the temple was destroyed in 70 AD. Christ is our Passover now ( 1 Corinthians 5:7) and the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath ( Matthew 12:8).
We also need to consider what Paul stated to those who were coming from pagan societies. He said in Acts 15:29 to avoid eating blood; or strangled animals (often done in pagan rituals) as well as sexual immorality. If Saturday worship was required you would expect something would be mentioned as all other things in the Commandments which are throughout the New Testament in the Gospels and Epistles.
There are further concerns with Adventist doctrines and Ellen White which I am not going to get into detail here; but this often is an added reason for this and other issues of contention. I agree that the edict of Milan enforcing Sunday worship is wrong also.
Thanks, brother, what day we choose to go to a building called a church does not matter, it's what we do after the service and every other day of the week. Many feel good that they go to a church but after going to a restaurant where people are working to serve them or go to a sporting event and think nothing about it.
If we look at Acts 15 these Gentiles received the Holy Spirit by only hearing the gospel of Jesus Christ. We overlook and complicate the simplicity that is in Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 11:3 by creeds and stipulations as Peter said in Acts 15:8-10. Whether you were Jew or Greek back then the only way they could hear the word of God was by going to a synagogue as we see in Acts 15:21. What came later was for power and control.
What we do we do unto the Lord and for our conscience's sake.
The early Christians were loyal Jews; they worshiped daily in the Temple at Jerusalem; they attended services in the synagogue; they revered the law of Moses.
Notice in Acts 15 Paul did not try to persuade them to drop the Sabbath and start meeting on Sunday.
The dispute over the requirements of a Gentile Christian were resolved at the Council at Jerusalem and the Sabbath wasn't even brought up but the liberty we have in Christ for the Gentiles was on display. In other words, they weren't expected to be as zealous for the Jewish customs and rituals as the Jewish Christians were in the early Church.
Acts 15:22-24
Then pleased it the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas, and Silas, chief men among the brethren:
And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia:
Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: TO WHOM WE GAVE NO SUCH COMMANDMENT:
In Moses law breaking many of these commandments was a death sentence!
Why aren't we so passionate to execute that?
Who would be alive?
Colossians 2:14-17 shows us how we were freed from the sentencing of the penalty of these laws that brought death instead of life.
Today it is not where or when you worship. It is HOW you worship.
John 4:21-24.
If you are born of the spirit, you are sons of God and has joined him in his rest.
May the LORD give us wisdom in reading, studying and applying HIS word.
2 Timothy 2:15
James 2:
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Romans 4:
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Ephesians 2:
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Titus 3:
4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
May we be intercessors in CHRIST name, Isaiah 59:16, for those who have been blinded by the god of this world, 2 Corinthians 4:3, 4.
We are called to stand in the gap for others, Ezekiel 22:30, and plant the seed of the word that others may water and that GOD will give the increase.
Acts 15:
8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
I agree it's time to let this topic rest between you and me. However, before I go, I will comment on your last reply.
Part 1
In Acts 15 it wasn't the apostles debating over the law or Judaism, (it was them debating the Pharisees).
Acts 15:5-6. But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, that it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses. And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.
Acts 15:22-24 You see the Apostles sent letters against this!
A Disciple is one who follows one's teachings, In Christianity these teachings is taught by the Holyspirit.
We are given Christ spirit to know and perform the things of Christ!
That's why they weren't sent out to the rest of the world until they were filled with the Holyspirit.
The spirit of Christ wouldn't have them continue in Judaism, Something Jesus died to free them from. "The curse of the Law"
The ministry of the Holyspirt is shown here in John 16:12-15.
I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak, and he will shew you things to come.
He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine and shall shew it unto you.
All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
And concerning Acts 10:28, This is nothing to do with the context of our debate. We're debating whether one can lose his Salvation, which later we begun to debate whether the Apostles continued in Judaism "concerning Salvation" This has nothing to do with neither. Infact Acts 10:28-48 shows the opposite, the issue is that he went unto the uncircumcised, and didst eat with them.
It's shown in Acts 11:17-18 that what they believed in and practiced went out to the Gentiles also.
1) You asked,if a man can choose, can he later as a Christian choose to forsake Christ thereby abandoning his salvation and losing the gift of eternal life? Or is it all predestined? If so, why would there be a judgment?
2) You said Isn't it to believe in him whom he sent?) That is true. To some that is easy, all they must do is believe, they have their ticket. Someone then asks them do they believe in God and what Jesus did, all they must do is say yes, I believe. Is it just to believe that is contradictory, is this a half-truth, like you will not surely die? Gen. 3:4-5. Ronald the scripture saysThat if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt BELIEVE IN THY HEART that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. Believing in thy heart is a true profession. it would be like the example given in Matthew 7:21-23.
3) Ronald, you asked; If we say when someone walks away or falls back into sin they were never saved to begin with. If we do is that judging? Is there any way for us to know what is in the heart of another man or woman? and if we say they were never saved is that just to support a doctrine?
I would say no the scripture declares them unsaved. Matthew 7:23.
I would also ask you. if you say someone fell back into sin as you said they would lose their salvation. Isn't that judging and is that just to support a doctrine also?
4) Response to part 3.
You said, Concerning Pentecost, Peter was pleading that they accept Jesus as their Messiah that was promised, and they killed Him, not to repent from Judaism. (accepting Jesus Christ is turning from Judaism!) And act 15 they were opposing Judaism. Acts 15:5-11. ' You noticed verse 11? "But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.Peter is saying the Jews shall be saved even as the gentiles!
In Truth, the day you are completely free from sin, is the day you meet your Savior ! 1 Pet 1:7-9
I can't tell you how Dan would answer that question,
but here's mine
It's not a work of our self-efforts in our own strengths or our own understanding, it following the Light of Christ in our hearts, the still small Voice of Conscience that convicts us of our wrong doings & directs us to do what is just, good & holy, Titus 2:11
Micah 6:8 , its the Treasure we have in these earthen vessels, enlightening us in the power of Holy Spirit, picking up the Cross & denying self, & causing us to will & do of His good pleasure, which works were finishes from the foundation of the world, Hebrews 4:3Acts 15:18 We enter into His works, coming to a place of rest from our own works
Then there some that are persuaded they don't have to do anything, but believe, without becoming a doer of the Word, thats more like being a demon, for they believes, but they do not obey.
Consider all that Scriptures, beginning with Abraham, Gen 18:19 by his obedience Abraham proved his faith & his love for God
John 15:10 he abided in God's love & received all that God had promise him, through his obedience to God's commands.
Today's Christianity says you can be a Christian without keeping His commandments, God loves you & His grace got you covered. This is a changing of the definition of Grace, which is defined in Scripture as Titus 2:12 Grace is the power of God to reveal our sins & to takes us out of them, not to encourage or pamper us in our sins.
Friends, God salvation is a free gift, but faith without works is dead. James 2:17-26 this is clearly seen & understood in the whole of Scriptures. Jesus Himself learn obedience by the things that He suffer, & became perfect, perfected our salvation, all for our sakes, that we may follow Him. John 14:31
There was a tremendous revival. People are being receptive to Christ all through the island. And as they come out from the west side of the island, they go straight north to the mainland. Actually, it would be the southern coast of Asia Minor. They began traveling inland. Paul got sick. He caught malaria. It wasn't quite the time of revival like they had on the island of Cyprus. It was tough going!
And so, when they reached a place that is called Perga, John says I'm going home, it is enough for me! Not home to Antioch, but home to Jerusalem. So, he leaves the first missionary journey there in Perga of Pamphylia. And his actual departure from the trip is given to us in Acts 13:13.
Now from Antioch to Cyprus:
In the second missionary journey, Paul has apparently rejoined the church from Barnabas' encouragement to "come back up to Antioch." The second missionary journey, as recorded in Acts 15:37-40, shows us that Paul and Barnabas are ready to go on a missionary trip again. And Barnabas says I want to take John Mark. And Paul says no way. He can't make it. He quit. I am not taking him. Barnabas insisted. And so there is a split between Paul and Barnabas.
So, Paul wound up taking Silas and going back over the territories that they had covered in the first missionary journey, and Barnabas took Mark and went over to the island of Cyprus and came back. So, the two of them traveled around the island while Paul and Silas ministered up in the southern part of Asia Minor.
Now after this, it becomes even more interesting because after the second missionary journey, we have no record of really what happened to John Mark, like the book of Acts would tell us. We have indications of what has happened to him in the future. There are a lot of historical documents, but apparently after Barnabas and John Mark return from the island of Cyprus, John Mark went with Peter and became a disciple of Peter for the rest of his of life.
We are 100% in agreement that the blood of Christ is by which we are saved throughout eternity.
Israel, "through the house of Israel" will be saved by the same way they were saved on the OT.
(But not all.) So, in Romans 11:26 where it says And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, I believe it's those of the house of Israel who will except Christ finished work on the cross. Their blindness will be removed when they call on Christ in the tribulation. You see the church is never called the house of Israel.
In the OT, before the Church was formed, those who were saved, by faith they looked ahead with those ordinances pointing them to one who would come as their redeemer "Christ"
We look back at the Cross in faith for our redemption, In the Millennium kingdom those who are saved will do the same.
Those who are saved will look back at the finish work of Christ on the cross. Everything else is a memorial. sacrifices etc.
During the tribulation period Israel will be driven to call on their Messiah as prophesied in Hosea 5:15. Also in Matthew 23:39.
obviously, they seen him again, He's saying you won't behold him again as a Nation. (They will remain blinded) as mentioned in Luke 19:42.
You also see this mentioned clearly in Zechariah 13:6-9.
Peter makes mention of a future salvation for the Nation/house of Israel in Acts 15:9-11 when studying it carefully.
And James follows it up in verses 14-17.
Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
Behold, the eyes of the Lord GOD are upon the sinful kingdom, and I will destroy it from off the face of the earth; saving that I will not utterly destroy the house of Jacob, saith the LORD.
For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.
( They have been scattered amongst all the nations.
In the latter days God will raise up the tabernacle of David and gather them from all nations.)
AMOS 9:11.
In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old:
AMOS 9:14-15.
And I will bring again the captivity of my people of Israel, and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine thereof; they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them.
And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD thy God.
It is true that Moses' Law asked Hebrews to observe the Sabbath.
But as Paul says in Galatians 3:24 the Law served as a schoolmaster (although "tutor and guardian for childs" is a more accurate translation of the grk "paidagogos") which leads people to Christ. That means that many things in the Old Law served as a shadow for things to come in the New Covenant, they served as a figure for the real things to come. So circumcision of the flesh is figurative for circumcision of the Heart (new birth), sacrifice of animals were a figure fot Jesus' sacrifice ... and so on.
Paul in Galatians 8-11 says "8. Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods. 9.But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? 10.Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years. 11.I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain."
And in Collossians 2:16-17 he says, "16. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days (FOR NOT HOLDING THEM): WHY NOT PAUL? BECAUSE 17.Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ"
Remenber when the apostles gathered in Jerusalem to discuss about the gentiles following or not the Law. They came up with a conclusion. What was that conclusion? Acts 15:28-29, "28. For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; 29. That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well."
You see brother nothing to keep from the Old Law but only the above.
Besides Jesus said in some place that my Father works until now and so am I. God hasn't really gone to rest after the creation but works till now for the salvation of people.
-Therefore, Jesus Christ the son of God could not be born to the Hindus for they worship Idols neither to the Romans and the greeks even unto the Africans and the Australian aboriginals or any other tribe or nation of the world for all had a form of Ido worshiping including the Brittanica tribes
For there is one God who is living and there is none like Him from the heavens and to the earth as it is written in
Deuteronomy 32:39
See now that I, even I, am He, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: Neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.
-God created from Abraham a new nation and guided them with the law and setting them apart and district from all the tribes of the world and from Abraham's children we have the 12 son of Jacob who later multiply and becomes a Great nation and still unique and not integrating with the rest of the world and even after their exile in 70Ad by the romans. who changed their lands name from isreal to Palestine they still remained a unique nation. While they were scattered across the world and Europe and by the fulfilment of God's word written in the Book of Jeremiah the prophet, the nation of Israel was reborn back into exitance in 1948.
-Therefore, Jesus Christ the son of the living God was born form the Jews and died on the cross in Israel and rose and acceded in Heaven still a Jew and He is the Lion of the tribe of Judah and forevermore Amen salvation is from the Jews. anyone who is not a Jew is called a Gentile.
it is written in John 4:22
22.Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
I pray that God will touch your heart for understand Amen
it is written in Acts 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost
-So God called Abraham and when he listened and Obeyed the voice of God then God promised Him to make him a great nation. A people for Himself and thus the beginning of the nation of isreal.
as it is written in Geniss 12:1-3
1Now the Lord had said to Abram:" Get out of your country, From your family And from your father's house to a land that I will show you.
2 I will make you a great nation;I will bless you And make your name great; And you shall be a blessing.
3 I will bless those who bless you,And I will curse him who curses you;And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed."
-It is important to note that In-oder that Jesus Christ the Son of the living God to came into the world He would need to be pure form sins and not a worshiper of idols like the nations that ware in those err of Abraham and an Example Egypt. For Jesus Christ is God and when He was born, He had to obey his parent and if He was disobedient to his parents then we would not be free from sins hence the sacrifice Offred at the cross would be invalid for attornment of sin. Remember it is written in.
2 Corinthians 5:21
21.For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
REVIEWING THE NEW TESTAMENT CONSIDERING PREMILLENNIAL AND AMILLENNIAL VIEW POINTS.
In the previous section I left off discussing the council in Jerusalem mentioned in Acts 15:13-17 and Paul's writings in Romans 11:25.
These verses is concerning what become of Israel and the Covenant promises while the Church age has begun.
This tempts me to revisit the OT and usher in Daniel 9:24-27 at this junction but I will save that for now.
The focus is on Gods future plans for Israel and the timing and location of the Kingdom reign of Christ.
Some call it the Millennium reign or Millennium kingdom which can unfortunately confusing.
Millennium is a Thousand years.
That's just how long Satan will be chained.
Christ reign is everlasting. We must no mistake the Millennium for eternity. There's still sin, chastening and death in the Millennium. Christ rule with a rod of iron. Eternity is entirely different.
The Millennium is a time of testing.
There's a final rebellion by Man after the Devil is loosed for a season.
The statement in Acts 15:13-17 is drawn from Amos 9:11-12 which has been debated.
Amillenarians sought to make this a contradiction of the premillennial point of view.
It seems that "after these things I will return" refers to the return of Christ after the period of Gentile prominence which began in 606 B.C. and is destined to continue until the second coming. It is "after these things" judgment on Israel, their scattering, and discipline that Christ will return and build again the tabernacle or tent of David. The reference to the tent of David does not concern itself with any building but rather with the political power and sway which David had.
Amos 9:14-15 debunks that,
Especially verse 15. "And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD thy God."
COMPARING PREMILLENNIAL AND AMILLENNIAL VIEW POINTS.
By way of recap we're comparing the way these two groups interpret the scripture surrounding the Abrahamic and Davidic Covenants.
Part 5.
In Hosea 3:4-5. before the Babylonian captivity, it was predicted: "For the children of Israel shall abide many days without king or Prince...
"Afterward SHALL THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL return, and seek the LORD their God, and David their king; and shall fear the LORD and his goodness in the latter days.
Hosea 3:5
Also;
Amos 9:11.
Zachariah 14:4.
Zachariah 14:9.
This of is not a contradiction of the fulfillment of the Davidic covenant, but is a part of the same picture.
and many more OT references.
LET'S REVIEW THE NEW TESTAMENT.
According to Luke 1:30-33 the angel Gabriel told Mary that she is to be the mother of Christ and Christ will reign on the throne of His father David over the house of Jacob.
To Mary "the house of Jacob" could mean only one thing and that is the descendants of Jacob, namely, the twelve tribes of Israel.
It seems the disciples and others anticipated much the same kind of a literal fulfillment.
Matthew 19:28.
Matthew 20:20-21.
Luke 22:29-30.
Acts 1:6-7. The disciples were still anticipating an earthly kingdom and hoped for its immediately.
Christ did not say that their hope was vain and that there was not going to be a literal fulfillment. He replied: "It is not for you to know the times or seasons, which the Father hath set within his own authority."
But He directs their attention to the immediately task before them, and to the power of the Holyspirit Spirit and proclaim the Gospel to the whole world.
Now this is where the line is drawn from dealing with Israel until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Confirming verses at the council in Jerusalem in Acts 15:13-17.
In part 1 you gave me Luke 1:17 and stated, "This means that another part of John's ministry was to teach Hebrews to clean their heart by preaching them to obey God's commandments. I would have to disagree with you on that.
No one could keep the law therefore it couldn't make you clean. Acts 15:5-10. Romans 8:3. Galatians 3:10-14.
You also referred me to Luke 3:7-18. Notice vs 9) "And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down and cast into the fire. They couldn't bare fruit! Israel was a degenerate vine.
Jeremiah 2:20-21. Matthew 21:42-44. In contrast to that Jesus is the genuine vine. John 15:1-2.
John was preparing the way for someone to do what the Law couldn't do. and that's Christ.
John's baptism was to turn the Jews "The lost sheep of Israel" to Christ and yet he says there comes one who will give a baptism that exceeds his that brings us to Jesus.
Now John says he must decrease, and Jesus must Increase. Now we have the beginning of Jesus ministry in which he came for the lost sheep of Israel. Due to blindness, they denied there king so as Paul says salvation has come to the Gentiles. That brings us to Pentecost. Here's a predominantly mostly if not all Jewish beginning of the Church. Here is where baptism of the Holyspirit begins and this is where the Spirit of God baptize Jews and Gentiles into the body of Christ and water baptism is a ritual way for you to display what the Spirit of God has already done once you TRULY believed.
So, the obedience is for you to show by display who and what you believe in. It's the faith of Christ that initiates your belief which leads to Salvation.
As I said Paul was very careful and strict when he was selecting his partners in the ministry. He once didn't want with Him Mark(the Evangelist who wrote one of the gospels, he was also apostle Peter's nephew) because Mark left him and Barnabas in a trip to Cyprus. and that was the reason he separated himself from Barnabas ( Acts 15:37-40). So Demas wasn't an ordinary, loose christian. He was one of the best for that ministry. But like Judas, he let his heart deceive him and loved the world more than God. What happened to him? We don't really know but Paul never mentioned Demas in his epistles any more, so he never returned, at least as long as Paul was alive.
And there are more stories in the Gospel about people who never finished their courses. And they didn't get the prize of the eternal life. Tomorrow I am going to deal with some other people who lost their salvation. Ananias and Sapphira. Also with people in the Old Testament.
The Bible warns us in 1 Peter 5:8, "Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:". Devour? The devil? Us, believers? But isn't our salvation secured, as some say?
In Acts 15:29 it says that the Gentiles would observe "That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled" concerning food. But Gentiles were not told to observe the other ordinances concerning food. I hope that answered your question. God bless.
Some dispensations can be divided up into smaller dispensations, and they can be given different names. However, one thing is clear, there are dispensations and they are governed by different over-arching themes.
There is also the matter of "carryovers" during the transition from one dispensation to another. Each dispensation commonly includes:
Certain ordinances that were valid and continue to be valid in the new dispensation. A good example is the command to not eat blood, first given to Noah ( Genesis 9:4), then to Moses ( Leviticus 3:17) and was even carried over into the so-called dispensation of Grace at the Council of Jerusalem ( Acts 15:29).
Other regulations that were valid until then are annulled and do not continue into the new dispensation. An example of this is the freedom to eat any meat, which is actually a reversal back to a previous dispensation where God commanded Noah to eat "every moving thing that liveth" ( Genesis 9:3).
New principles not valid before are introduced in the new dispensation. The Mosaic Law is a dramatic illustration of this. A large portion of the Law introduced new principles.
Promises given in one dispensation are carried over and fulfilled in another dispensation. Many of the promises to the nation of Israel, to Abraham and to David are yet to be fulfilled, but will be fulfilled during the Millennium.
Some things instituted in one dispensation may be elaborated or modified in a later dispensation. An excellent example of this is the Sermon on the Mount, where Jesus takes the written laws one step further-not only is it wrong to murder, but if you hate, you have already committed murder in your heart.
Richard, I was reading the thread you posted and I made a mistake and sent Part 1 to you. I was trying to start a new thread. Sorry.
Daniel 9:24-27.
Seventy weeks are determined upon THY PEOPLE AND UPON THY HOLY CITY, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
THY PEOPLE AND UPON THY HOLY CITY. This is Israel!
These verses have to be interpreted correctly in order to understand eschatology.
Associate these verses with Mathew 24 and Romans 11:25.
Hosea 2:1-23.
and Acts 15:13-16.
Notice verse 16.
AFTER THIS I WILL RETURN, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
After what?
"The fulness of the Gentiles Paul speaks of in Romans 11:25.
Beloved Linda on Genesis 3 all is clean the Lord has cleansed all. Here in Acts 11:1-18
If we change God's word one small sentence and do not get light on the word with the Holy Spirit. Will everything we create becomes confusion. You see today, many issues come up about food. Which is not Divine at all. The apostles did not understand this either when they made a new rule here: The meeting of the Apostles in Jerusalem Acts 15:6-21
Stay close to the word og God, Jesus is there, love u in Christ. Merry Christmas eat all food in Jesus holy name, Amen
You cannot approach God in your natural birth! You are still in Adam and all ethnic groups have to come to God by the blood of the cross. John 14:6.
Salvation didn't come by genealogy religion or ethnic group Salvation didn't come by anything Adam had to offer. Salvation came by the seed of the woman that's Christ.
There's your new birth.
If you belong to any ethnic group, religion, church or political party, without Christ you will be told I never knew you.
Matthew 7:21-23.
Abraham was asked to leave his father's pagan land and was promise a land flowing with milk and honey. In Hebrews it says this is the new Jerusalem. Hebrews 11:8-10.
God said he will make a nation out of Abraham. (There is no value in the pagan land in which he came and there was no value in him when he came) He had to come to God by instrument of faith to receive grace, "as do we".
We are the seed of Abraham and sons of God through faith.
Salvation didn't come by the nation of Israel. The nation of Israel demonstrated there is no good thing in the flesh.
God will put his spirit in Israel and Israel as a nation will be saved as we. Acts 15:8-11.
There will be a new fold and One shepherd. John 10:16.
No dear Baker, prophesing is not teaching. There are two types of prophets in New Testament.
1. The gift of prophesing ( 1 Cor 12:7-11). A woman can have that gift and prophesy ( Acts 21:8-9). The gifts are given by the Holly Spirit. This gift has nothing to do with teaching, that is why in the next chapter ( 1 Cor 14:34) where Paul keeps talking about gifts, especially about speaking in tongues and prophesing, he forbids women to teach in the church. So prophesing has nothing to do with teaching (some churches have this specific belief).
2. The ministry of prophet ( Ephesians 4:11), which is something different from the gift of prophesing described in Corinthians. In Acts 13:1-3 in the church there are both prophets and teachers, which means they are different ministries. All ministers, Apostles, Pastors, Evangelists, Teachers, Prophets(once more teachers and prophets are separate ministries) are males, we don't see any woman in that position in the Gospels. As written it is Jesus who appoints ministers in the church (not the Holly Spirit who gives the gifts). All ministers can teach in the church, as well. ( Acts 15:32).
It appears Paul was bringing their practices into question. Acts 15:29,
His points in discussion were to explain Jesus baptism & their contrary belief & actions, If they didn't believe in resurrection why would they do anything for people who had already died.?. 1Corinthians 15:12,
There is a scripture on not eating the blood ( Acts 15:20). That fits into the lifeblood concept from the O.T. It also discusses animals that are strangled. Therefore; we should not seek to eat meat that is "Hallal" meat in my estimation as it is done purposely by slowly killing an animal. I would say in principle that due to conscience there are certain food establishments that are notoriously cruel to animals and for a good testimony and witness it is good not to consume those meats. These things have changed over the years. The main thing; of course is not to eat anything around people who are having some sort of sacrificial idol worship by killing animals (again usually in a very brutal tortuous way as is the case with certain cults).
Other than this; the verses describing Peter's experience with the sheet being laid down from heaven with all sort sof unclean beasts has the bigger purpose involving the Gentiles being now the recievers of God's blessings (specifically starting with Cornelious and his household). These O.T. laws involved ceremonial law which the new covenant changed. Nonetheless it appears that in the Millennium there will be certain things once again in that arena; I would say because it is the only way mortal men will be able to live in the direct presence of Christ and US; the glorified saints who rule and reign with him at that time. That would explain reinstituting in that time the sacrifices as a reminder of what Christ did. I would tend to think in eternity with all death (the enemy) gone that will not continue.
The last thought of course is Corinthians where Paul tells us not to do anything to offend a weaker brother. That would also of course involve those who find in their belief certain things offensive (such as beef in a Hindu culture; pork among Jews and Muslims). FYI my aunt is vegetarian but doesn't have any apparent problem with those in the family ordering meat as long as it isn't in HER food. So exceptions occur.
Acts 20:7 makes clear that gathering of the saints occurred on the first day of the week to bolster the collection made according to 1 Corinthians 16:2. The prescident is really from the fact that Christ fulfilled Pentacost which was the 8th day of the week (or Sunday) in the O.T. times was celebrated 50 days after the Passover.
Since we are not to have certain days to be held above others as Romans 14:5-6 indicates; we have no right to dictate either Saturday or Sunday for worship as I see it. Again; the Old Testament command was for Israel specifically as anyone in the land who disrespected the Sabbath was severely punished (see Deuteronomy 5:14). Other laws in the Old Testament such as marriage were clearly upheld even with pagan societies (as we see with the case of John the Baptist when he was imprisoned for contesting with the marriage status of a secular leader married to his brother's wife). Murder was evident with Cain well before the law came out. The fact is that Saturday worship can no longer be as it was without the sacrifices and other ordinances of the O.T. times which have been gone since the temple was destroyed in 70 AD. Christ is our Passover now ( 1 Corinthians 5:7) and the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath ( Matthew 12:8).
We also need to consider what Paul stated to those who were coming from pagan societies. He said in Acts 15:29 to avoid eating blood; or strangled animals (often done in pagan rituals) as well as sexual immorality. If Saturday worship was required you would expect something would be mentioned as all other things in the Commandments which are throughout the New Testament in the Gospels and Epistles.
There are further concerns with Adventist doctrines and Ellen White which I am not going to get into detail here; but this often is an added reason for this and other issues of contention. I agree that the edict of Milan enforcing Sunday worship is wrong also.
Thanks, brother, what day we choose to go to a building called a church does not matter, it's what we do after the service and every other day of the week. Many feel good that they go to a church but after going to a restaurant where people are working to serve them or go to a sporting event and think nothing about it.
If we look at Acts 15 these Gentiles received the Holy Spirit by only hearing the gospel of Jesus Christ. We overlook and complicate the simplicity that is in Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 11:3 by creeds and stipulations as Peter said in Acts 15:8-10. Whether you were Jew or Greek back then the only way they could hear the word of God was by going to a synagogue as we see in Acts 15:21. What came later was for power and control.
What we do we do unto the Lord and for our conscience's sake.
God bless,
RLW
The early Church.
The early Christians were loyal Jews; they worshiped daily in the Temple at Jerusalem; they attended services in the synagogue; they revered the law of Moses.
Notice in Acts 15 Paul did not try to persuade them to drop the Sabbath and start meeting on Sunday.
The dispute over the requirements of a Gentile Christian were resolved at the Council at Jerusalem and the Sabbath wasn't even brought up but the liberty we have in Christ for the Gentiles was on display. In other words, they weren't expected to be as zealous for the Jewish customs and rituals as the Jewish Christians were in the early Church.
Acts 15:22-24
Then pleased it the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas, and Silas, chief men among the brethren:
And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia:
Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: TO WHOM WE GAVE NO SUCH COMMANDMENT:
In Moses law breaking many of these commandments was a death sentence!
Why aren't we so passionate to execute that?
Who would be alive?
Colossians 2:14-17 shows us how we were freed from the sentencing of the penalty of these laws that brought death instead of life.
Today it is not where or when you worship. It is HOW you worship.
John 4:21-24.
If you are born of the spirit, you are sons of God and has joined him in his rest.
God bless.
Acts 16:13, Acts 17:2 Acts 18:4
"Protestants do not realize that by observing Sunday they accept the authority of the Spokesperson, the Pope." ( Our Sunday Visitor February 5, 1950.)
Ephesians 2: 4-9
May we all celebrate and worship our KING, the LORD JESUS CHRIST by serving HIM as scripture dictates us to do.
By prayer... 1 Timothy 2:1-4
By making disciples... Matthew 28:19, 20
To study ... 2 Timothy 2:15
To know the LORD.. 2 Timothy 3:16, 17
Any many more scriptures to help us to grow in HIM.
Merry Christmas to all the brethren, the LORD to shine HIS glorious face upon us.
December 25, 2023
2 Timothy 2:15
James 2:
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Romans 4:
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Ephesians 2:
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Titus 3:
4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
May we be intercessors in CHRIST name, Isaiah 59:16, for those who have been blinded by the god of this world, 2 Corinthians 4:3, 4.
We are called to stand in the gap for others, Ezekiel 22:30, and plant the seed of the word that others may water and that GOD will give the increase.
Acts 15:
8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
Salvation is by faith in CHRIST alone.
GOD bless everyone!
I agree it's time to let this topic rest between you and me. However, before I go, I will comment on your last reply.
Part 1
In Acts 15 it wasn't the apostles debating over the law or Judaism, (it was them debating the Pharisees).
Acts 15:5-6. But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, that it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses. And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.
Acts 15:22-24 You see the Apostles sent letters against this!
A Disciple is one who follows one's teachings, In Christianity these teachings is taught by the Holyspirit.
We are given Christ spirit to know and perform the things of Christ!
That's why they weren't sent out to the rest of the world until they were filled with the Holyspirit.
The spirit of Christ wouldn't have them continue in Judaism, Something Jesus died to free them from. "The curse of the Law"
The ministry of the Holyspirt is shown here in John 16:12-15.
I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak, and he will shew you things to come.
He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine and shall shew it unto you.
All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
And concerning Acts 10:28, This is nothing to do with the context of our debate. We're debating whether one can lose his Salvation, which later we begun to debate whether the Apostles continued in Judaism "concerning Salvation" This has nothing to do with neither. Infact Acts 10:28-48 shows the opposite, the issue is that he went unto the uncircumcised, and didst eat with them.
It's shown in Acts 11:17-18 that what they believed in and practiced went out to the Gentiles also.
See Part 2
Part 1.
Response to part 1.
1) You asked,if a man can choose, can he later as a Christian choose to forsake Christ thereby abandoning his salvation and losing the gift of eternal life? Or is it all predestined? If so, why would there be a judgment?
2) You said Isn't it to believe in him whom he sent?) That is true. To some that is easy, all they must do is believe, they have their ticket. Someone then asks them do they believe in God and what Jesus did, all they must do is say yes, I believe. Is it just to believe that is contradictory, is this a half-truth, like you will not surely die? Gen. 3:4-5. Ronald the scripture saysThat if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt BELIEVE IN THY HEART that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. Believing in thy heart is a true profession. it would be like the example given in Matthew 7:21-23.
3) Ronald, you asked; If we say when someone walks away or falls back into sin they were never saved to begin with. If we do is that judging? Is there any way for us to know what is in the heart of another man or woman? and if we say they were never saved is that just to support a doctrine?
I would say no the scripture declares them unsaved. Matthew 7:23.
I would also ask you. if you say someone fell back into sin as you said they would lose their salvation. Isn't that judging and is that just to support a doctrine also?
4) Response to part 3.
You said, Concerning Pentecost, Peter was pleading that they accept Jesus as their Messiah that was promised, and they killed Him, not to repent from Judaism. (accepting Jesus Christ is turning from Judaism!) And act 15 they were opposing Judaism. Acts 15:5-11. ' You noticed verse 11? "But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.Peter is saying the Jews shall be saved even as the gentiles!
See Part 2.
I can't tell you how Dan would answer that question,
but here's mine
It's not a work of our self-efforts in our own strengths or our own understanding, it following the Light of Christ in our hearts, the still small Voice of Conscience that convicts us of our wrong doings & directs us to do what is just, good & holy, Titus 2:11
Micah 6:8 , its the Treasure we have in these earthen vessels, enlightening us in the power of Holy Spirit, picking up the Cross & denying self, & causing us to will & do of His good pleasure, which works were finishes from the foundation of the world, Hebrews 4:3 Acts 15:18 We enter into His works, coming to a place of rest from our own works
Then there some that are persuaded they don't have to do anything, but believe, without becoming a doer of the Word, thats more like being a demon, for they believes, but they do not obey.
Consider all that Scriptures, beginning with Abraham, Gen 18:19 by his obedience Abraham proved his faith & his love for God
John 15:10 he abided in God's love & received all that God had promise him, through his obedience to God's commands.
Today's Christianity says you can be a Christian without keeping His commandments, God loves you & His grace got you covered. This is a changing of the definition of Grace, which is defined in Scripture as Titus 2:12 Grace is the power of God to reveal our sins & to takes us out of them, not to encourage or pamper us in our sins.
Friends, God salvation is a free gift, but faith without works is dead. James 2:17-26 this is clearly seen & understood in the whole of Scriptures. Jesus Himself learn obedience by the things that He suffer, & became perfect, perfected our salvation, all for our sakes, that we may follow Him. John 14:31
in love & truth
There was a tremendous revival. People are being receptive to Christ all through the island. And as they come out from the west side of the island, they go straight north to the mainland. Actually, it would be the southern coast of Asia Minor. They began traveling inland. Paul got sick. He caught malaria. It wasn't quite the time of revival like they had on the island of Cyprus. It was tough going!
And so, when they reached a place that is called Perga, John says I'm going home, it is enough for me! Not home to Antioch, but home to Jerusalem. So, he leaves the first missionary journey there in Perga of Pamphylia. And his actual departure from the trip is given to us in Acts 13:13.
Now from Antioch to Cyprus:
In the second missionary journey, Paul has apparently rejoined the church from Barnabas' encouragement to "come back up to Antioch." The second missionary journey, as recorded in Acts 15:37-40, shows us that Paul and Barnabas are ready to go on a missionary trip again. And Barnabas says I want to take John Mark. And Paul says no way. He can't make it. He quit. I am not taking him. Barnabas insisted. And so there is a split between Paul and Barnabas.
So, Paul wound up taking Silas and going back over the territories that they had covered in the first missionary journey, and Barnabas took Mark and went over to the island of Cyprus and came back. So, the two of them traveled around the island while Paul and Silas ministered up in the southern part of Asia Minor.
Now after this, it becomes even more interesting because after the second missionary journey, we have no record of really what happened to John Mark, like the book of Acts would tell us. We have indications of what has happened to him in the future. There are a lot of historical documents, but apparently after Barnabas and John Mark return from the island of Cyprus, John Mark went with Peter and became a disciple of Peter for the rest of his of life.
Part 1
We are 100% in agreement that the blood of Christ is by which we are saved throughout eternity.
Israel, "through the house of Israel" will be saved by the same way they were saved on the OT.
(But not all.) So, in Romans 11:26 where it says And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, I believe it's those of the house of Israel who will except Christ finished work on the cross. Their blindness will be removed when they call on Christ in the tribulation. You see the church is never called the house of Israel.
In the OT, before the Church was formed, those who were saved, by faith they looked ahead with those ordinances pointing them to one who would come as their redeemer "Christ"
We look back at the Cross in faith for our redemption, In the Millennium kingdom those who are saved will do the same.
Those who are saved will look back at the finish work of Christ on the cross. Everything else is a memorial. sacrifices etc.
During the tribulation period Israel will be driven to call on their Messiah as prophesied in Hosea 5:15. Also in Matthew 23:39.
obviously, they seen him again, He's saying you won't behold him again as a Nation. (They will remain blinded) as mentioned in Luke 19:42.
You also see this mentioned clearly in Zechariah 13:6-9.
Peter makes mention of a future salvation for the Nation/house of Israel in Acts 15:9-11 when studying it carefully.
And James follows it up in verses 14-17.
Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
See part 2.
Amos 9:8-9.
Behold, the eyes of the Lord GOD are upon the sinful kingdom, and I will destroy it from off the face of the earth; saving that I will not utterly destroy the house of Jacob, saith the LORD.
For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.
( They have been scattered amongst all the nations.
In the latter days God will raise up the tabernacle of David and gather them from all nations.)
AMOS 9:11.
In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old:
AMOS 9:14-15.
And I will bring again the captivity of my people of Israel, and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine thereof; they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them.
And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD thy God.
James quotes this in Acts 15:15-16.
I hope this helps.
God bless.
It is true that Moses' Law asked Hebrews to observe the Sabbath.
But as Paul says in Galatians 3:24 the Law served as a schoolmaster (although "tutor and guardian for childs" is a more accurate translation of the grk "paidagogos") which leads people to Christ. That means that many things in the Old Law served as a shadow for things to come in the New Covenant, they served as a figure for the real things to come. So circumcision of the flesh is figurative for circumcision of the Heart (new birth), sacrifice of animals were a figure fot Jesus' sacrifice ... and so on.
Paul in Galatians 8-11 says "8. Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods. 9.But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? 10.Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years. 11.I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain."
And in Collossians 2:16-17 he says, "16. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days (FOR NOT HOLDING THEM): WHY NOT PAUL? BECAUSE 17.Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ"
Remenber when the apostles gathered in Jerusalem to discuss about the gentiles following or not the Law. They came up with a conclusion. What was that conclusion? Acts 15:28-29, "28. For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; 29. That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well."
You see brother nothing to keep from the Old Law but only the above.
Besides Jesus said in some place that my Father works until now and so am I. God hasn't really gone to rest after the creation but works till now for the salvation of people.
GBU
-Therefore, Jesus Christ the son of God could not be born to the Hindus for they worship Idols neither to the Romans and the greeks even unto the Africans and the Australian aboriginals or any other tribe or nation of the world for all had a form of Ido worshiping including the Brittanica tribes
For there is one God who is living and there is none like Him from the heavens and to the earth as it is written in
Deuteronomy 32:39
See now that I, even I, am He, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: Neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.
-God created from Abraham a new nation and guided them with the law and setting them apart and district from all the tribes of the world and from Abraham's children we have the 12 son of Jacob who later multiply and becomes a Great nation and still unique and not integrating with the rest of the world and even after their exile in 70Ad by the romans. who changed their lands name from isreal to Palestine they still remained a unique nation. While they were scattered across the world and Europe and by the fulfilment of God's word written in the Book of Jeremiah the prophet, the nation of Israel was reborn back into exitance in 1948.
-Therefore, Jesus Christ the son of the living God was born form the Jews and died on the cross in Israel and rose and acceded in Heaven still a Jew and He is the Lion of the tribe of Judah and forevermore Amen salvation is from the Jews. anyone who is not a Jew is called a Gentile.
it is written in John 4:22
22.Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
I pray that God will touch your heart for understand Amen
it is written in Acts 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost
-So God called Abraham and when he listened and Obeyed the voice of God then God promised Him to make him a great nation. A people for Himself and thus the beginning of the nation of isreal.
as it is written in Geniss 12:1-3
1Now the Lord had said to Abram:" Get out of your country, From your family And from your father's house to a land that I will show you.
2 I will make you a great nation;I will bless you And make your name great; And you shall be a blessing.
3 I will bless those who bless you,And I will curse him who curses you;And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed."
-It is important to note that In-oder that Jesus Christ the Son of the living God to came into the world He would need to be pure form sins and not a worshiper of idols like the nations that ware in those err of Abraham and an Example Egypt. For Jesus Christ is God and when He was born, He had to obey his parent and if He was disobedient to his parents then we would not be free from sins hence the sacrifice Offred at the cross would be invalid for attornment of sin. Remember it is written in.
2 Corinthians 5:21
21.For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
Please read part 3
1 Corinthians 15:33,34
Acts 15:28,29; Exodus 26:1
POINT: Revelation 22:6-9;
Revelation 4:11
REVIEWING THE NEW TESTAMENT CONSIDERING PREMILLENNIAL AND AMILLENNIAL VIEW POINTS.
In the previous section I left off discussing the council in Jerusalem mentioned in Acts 15:13-17 and Paul's writings in Romans 11:25.
These verses is concerning what become of Israel and the Covenant promises while the Church age has begun.
This tempts me to revisit the OT and usher in Daniel 9:24-27 at this junction but I will save that for now.
The focus is on Gods future plans for Israel and the timing and location of the Kingdom reign of Christ.
Some call it the Millennium reign or Millennium kingdom which can unfortunately confusing.
Millennium is a Thousand years.
That's just how long Satan will be chained.
Christ reign is everlasting. We must no mistake the Millennium for eternity. There's still sin, chastening and death in the Millennium. Christ rule with a rod of iron. Eternity is entirely different.
The Millennium is a time of testing.
There's a final rebellion by Man after the Devil is loosed for a season.
The statement in Acts 15:13-17 is drawn from Amos 9:11-12 which has been debated.
Amillenarians sought to make this a contradiction of the premillennial point of view.
It seems that "after these things I will return" refers to the return of Christ after the period of Gentile prominence which began in 606 B.C. and is destined to continue until the second coming. It is "after these things" judgment on Israel, their scattering, and discipline that Christ will return and build again the tabernacle or tent of David. The reference to the tent of David does not concern itself with any building but rather with the political power and sway which David had.
Amos 9:14-15 debunks that,
Especially verse 15. "And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD thy God."
It's bedtime for me.
I will continue at a later time.
God bless.
By way of recap we're comparing the way these two groups interpret the scripture surrounding the Abrahamic and Davidic Covenants.
Part 5.
In Hosea 3:4-5. before the Babylonian captivity, it was predicted: "For the children of Israel shall abide many days without king or Prince...
"Afterward SHALL THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL return, and seek the LORD their God, and David their king; and shall fear the LORD and his goodness in the latter days.
Hosea 3:5
Also;
Amos 9:11.
Zachariah 14:4.
Zachariah 14:9.
This of is not a contradiction of the fulfillment of the Davidic covenant, but is a part of the same picture.
and many more OT references.
LET'S REVIEW THE NEW TESTAMENT.
According to Luke 1:30-33 the angel Gabriel told Mary that she is to be the mother of Christ and Christ will reign on the throne of His father David over the house of Jacob.
To Mary "the house of Jacob" could mean only one thing and that is the descendants of Jacob, namely, the twelve tribes of Israel.
It seems the disciples and others anticipated much the same kind of a literal fulfillment.
Matthew 19:28.
Matthew 20:20-21.
Luke 22:29-30.
Acts 1:6-7. The disciples were still anticipating an earthly kingdom and hoped for its immediately.
Christ did not say that their hope was vain and that there was not going to be a literal fulfillment. He replied: "It is not for you to know the times or seasons, which the Father hath set within his own authority."
But He directs their attention to the immediately task before them, and to the power of the Holyspirit Spirit and proclaim the Gospel to the whole world.
Now this is where the line is drawn from dealing with Israel until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Confirming verses at the council in Jerusalem in Acts 15:13-17.
More on this later.
God bless.
Part 1
In part 1 you gave me Luke 1:17 and stated, "This means that another part of John's ministry was to teach Hebrews to clean their heart by preaching them to obey God's commandments. I would have to disagree with you on that.
No one could keep the law therefore it couldn't make you clean. Acts 15:5-10. Romans 8:3. Galatians 3:10-14.
You also referred me to Luke 3:7-18. Notice vs 9) "And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down and cast into the fire. They couldn't bare fruit! Israel was a degenerate vine.
Jeremiah 2:20-21. Matthew 21:42-44. In contrast to that Jesus is the genuine vine. John 15:1-2.
John was preparing the way for someone to do what the Law couldn't do. and that's Christ.
John's baptism was to turn the Jews "The lost sheep of Israel" to Christ and yet he says there comes one who will give a baptism that exceeds his that brings us to Jesus.
Now John says he must decrease, and Jesus must Increase. Now we have the beginning of Jesus ministry in which he came for the lost sheep of Israel. Due to blindness, they denied there king so as Paul says salvation has come to the Gentiles. That brings us to Pentecost. Here's a predominantly mostly if not all Jewish beginning of the Church. Here is where baptism of the Holyspirit begins and this is where the Spirit of God baptize Jews and Gentiles into the body of Christ and water baptism is a ritual way for you to display what the Spirit of God has already done once you TRULY believed.
So, the obedience is for you to show by display who and what you believe in. It's the faith of Christ that initiates your belief which leads to Salvation.
See part 2.
Assurance of salvation, cont...
As I said Paul was very careful and strict when he was selecting his partners in the ministry. He once didn't want with Him Mark(the Evangelist who wrote one of the gospels, he was also apostle Peter's nephew) because Mark left him and Barnabas in a trip to Cyprus. and that was the reason he separated himself from Barnabas ( Acts 15:37-40). So Demas wasn't an ordinary, loose christian. He was one of the best for that ministry. But like Judas, he let his heart deceive him and loved the world more than God. What happened to him? We don't really know but Paul never mentioned Demas in his epistles any more, so he never returned, at least as long as Paul was alive.
And there are more stories in the Gospel about people who never finished their courses. And they didn't get the prize of the eternal life. Tomorrow I am going to deal with some other people who lost their salvation. Ananias and Sapphira. Also with people in the Old Testament.
The Bible warns us in 1 Peter 5:8, "Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:". Devour? The devil? Us, believers? But isn't our salvation secured, as some say?
Part 2.
Some dispensations can be divided up into smaller dispensations, and they can be given different names. However, one thing is clear, there are dispensations and they are governed by different over-arching themes.
There is also the matter of "carryovers" during the transition from one dispensation to another. Each dispensation commonly includes:
Certain ordinances that were valid and continue to be valid in the new dispensation. A good example is the command to not eat blood, first given to Noah ( Genesis 9:4), then to Moses ( Leviticus 3:17) and was even carried over into the so-called dispensation of Grace at the Council of Jerusalem ( Acts 15:29).
Other regulations that were valid until then are annulled and do not continue into the new dispensation. An example of this is the freedom to eat any meat, which is actually a reversal back to a previous dispensation where God commanded Noah to eat "every moving thing that liveth" ( Genesis 9:3).
New principles not valid before are introduced in the new dispensation. The Mosaic Law is a dramatic illustration of this. A large portion of the Law introduced new principles.
Promises given in one dispensation are carried over and fulfilled in another dispensation. Many of the promises to the nation of Israel, to Abraham and to David are yet to be fulfilled, but will be fulfilled during the Millennium.
Some things instituted in one dispensation may be elaborated or modified in a later dispensation. An excellent example of this is the Sermon on the Mount, where Jesus takes the written laws one step further-not only is it wrong to murder, but if you hate, you have already committed murder in your heart.
See part 3.
Part 2.
Richard, I was reading the thread you posted and I made a mistake and sent Part 1 to you. I was trying to start a new thread. Sorry.
Daniel 9:24-27.
Seventy weeks are determined upon THY PEOPLE AND UPON THY HOLY CITY, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
THY PEOPLE AND UPON THY HOLY CITY. This is Israel!
These verses have to be interpreted correctly in order to understand eschatology.
Associate these verses with Mathew 24 and Romans 11:25.
Hosea 2:1-23.
and Acts 15:13-16.
Notice verse 16.
AFTER THIS I WILL RETURN, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
After what?
"The fulness of the Gentiles Paul speaks of in Romans 11:25.
If we change God's word one small sentence and do not get light on the word with the Holy Spirit. Will everything we create becomes confusion. You see today, many issues come up about food. Which is not Divine at all. The apostles did not understand this either when they made a new rule here: The meeting of the Apostles in Jerusalem Acts 15:6-21
Stay close to the word og God, Jesus is there, love u in Christ. Merry Christmas eat all food in Jesus holy name, Amen
You cannot approach God in your natural birth! You are still in Adam and all ethnic groups have to come to God by the blood of the cross. John 14:6.
Salvation didn't come by genealogy religion or ethnic group Salvation didn't come by anything Adam had to offer. Salvation came by the seed of the woman that's Christ.
There's your new birth.
If you belong to any ethnic group, religion, church or political party, without Christ you will be told I never knew you.
Matthew 7:21-23.
Abraham was asked to leave his father's pagan land and was promise a land flowing with milk and honey. In Hebrews it says this is the new Jerusalem. Hebrews 11:8-10.
God said he will make a nation out of Abraham. (There is no value in the pagan land in which he came and there was no value in him when he came) He had to come to God by instrument of faith to receive grace, "as do we".
We are the seed of Abraham and sons of God through faith.
Salvation didn't come by the nation of Israel. The nation of Israel demonstrated there is no good thing in the flesh.
God will put his spirit in Israel and Israel as a nation will be saved as we. Acts 15:8-11.
There will be a new fold and One shepherd. John 10:16.
God bless and good night.
1. The gift of prophesing ( 1 Cor 12:7-11). A woman can have that gift and prophesy ( Acts 21:8-9). The gifts are given by the Holly Spirit. This gift has nothing to do with teaching, that is why in the next chapter ( 1 Cor 14:34) where Paul keeps talking about gifts, especially about speaking in tongues and prophesing, he forbids women to teach in the church. So prophesing has nothing to do with teaching (some churches have this specific belief).
2. The ministry of prophet ( Ephesians 4:11), which is something different from the gift of prophesing described in Corinthians. In Acts 13:1-3 in the church there are both prophets and teachers, which means they are different ministries. All ministers, Apostles, Pastors, Evangelists, Teachers, Prophets(once more teachers and prophets are separate ministries) are males, we don't see any woman in that position in the Gospels. As written it is Jesus who appoints ministers in the church (not the Holly Spirit who gives the gifts). All ministers can teach in the church, as well. ( Acts 15:32).
GBU
His points in discussion were to explain Jesus baptism & their contrary belief & actions, If they didn't believe in resurrection why would they do anything for people who had already died.?. 1Corinthians 15:12,
Hopefully this is helpful
Other than this; the verses describing Peter's experience with the sheet being laid down from heaven with all sort sof unclean beasts has the bigger purpose involving the Gentiles being now the recievers of God's blessings (specifically starting with Cornelious and his household). These O.T. laws involved ceremonial law which the new covenant changed. Nonetheless it appears that in the Millennium there will be certain things once again in that arena; I would say because it is the only way mortal men will be able to live in the direct presence of Christ and US; the glorified saints who rule and reign with him at that time. That would explain reinstituting in that time the sacrifices as a reminder of what Christ did. I would tend to think in eternity with all death (the enemy) gone that will not continue.
The last thought of course is Corinthians where Paul tells us not to do anything to offend a weaker brother. That would also of course involve those who find in their belief certain things offensive (such as beef in a Hindu culture; pork among Jews and Muslims). FYI my aunt is vegetarian but doesn't have any apparent problem with those in the family ordering meat as long as it isn't in HER food. So exceptions occur.