Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth - Matthew 5:5KJV combined with Revelation 5:10
It's impressive, but it has been two thousand years since JESUS came here, think well about it, passing two thousand years is a gigantic space of time, in fact a huge gap or interval in space and time, but it passed, but will continue to pass. The time is infinite, like the space is infinite too.
And now JESUS WILL RETURN AGAIN HERE IN THE SAME PLACE from where He ascended to the third heavenly environment and a cloud RECEIVED Him ( Acts 1:11) , yes, He will again return now to the same place from where He ascended, and He will reign and lead us in new celestial environment ( Ephesians 1:3) by His power, for a period of 1.000 years(the cloud also will appear again, understand?) , as it is revealed in Philippians 3:20-21: -->20 For our conversation is in heaven (heaven: Ephesians 1:3. Take a look.)-; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: 21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto His glorious body, according to the working whereby He is able even to subdue all things unto himself. By the way, He made it very clear when He said: All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth- Matthew 28:18KJV.
Get ready, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet Him- Matthew 25:6KJV - .
Lets pray
Unfortunately , there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Hey brother, I don't mean to intrude between you Hemorlan, and Texsis on this but my understanding is at this time the apostles had not been told the Gospel will also be given to the Gentiles, the time had not come. There were another 3.5 years after Jesus's ministry before the apostles were told the gospel of Christ will be given to the Greeks/Gentiles, the mystery, Rom. 16:24-25.
The Apostles stayed in Jerusalem and surrounding Jewish communities until after Stephen's death, and the persecutions. Philip the evangelist was the first to carry the gospel to the Samaritans, Peter had his dream, and Paul's conversion. To me, it is a fulfillment that Jesus had told them but they did not understand, it like they did not understand He was going to die on the cross, Acts 1:8.
He told them the Comforter would come John 14:25-26 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. 26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
They were learning from the Holy Spirit as we see in Acts 15, a learning curve, not a transition from the old to the new but a fulfillment and teaching of Jesus through the Holy Spirit same as we learn today.
Christ has already come & that in Spirit, He told His disciples; Mark 9:1; Matt 16:28; over 2000 yrs ago, which came in full power at Pentecost.
I will not leave you comfortless, but you will see me again, that your joy maybe full, & Christ doesn't come alone, He brings His Father within Him, They became Ephesians 2:22; John 17:21-23; & they Micah 4:3;
Hebrews 9:28; is Titus 2:11; diffusing the fragrance of His knowledge in every heart. 2Cor 4:6 This is Titus 2:13; describing His 2nd appearance in Spirit. Who continually gives of Himself that Titus 2:14;
As for this son of perdition; it's the old Adamic nature that is rule by Ephesians 6:12; who's coming 2Thessalonians 2:9; this spirit works even deceive the very elect, who, we all must engage with within 2 Cor 10:3-5; Jesus says; Matt 15:18,19; for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks, so their within us. Think about this, we all have these thoughts spring up within us, 1 Pet 4:3; thus Jesus commands; Luke 14:27; The ones, Satan does deceive is explain, 2 Thessalonians 2:10-12; they refuse to believe the Witness, whom God has place within conscience. John 16:8; John 12:47-50; Jesus says, 8:24; Therefore were He has gone one cannot go.
Both seeds are spiritual, both kingdoms are within mankind.
This rapture theory John 17:11:15 "not to take them out of the world". But describes receiving 1Pet 1:5-9;The cumulation is the Baptism of the Holy Spirt, describing 2 Cor 10:6; resulting from Titus 3:5; by 1Pet 1:23; unto John 3:3; the chaff, ( old man sin nature is thoroughly purges out without a trace, Daniel 2:34,35; these earthen vessels, 1Cor 15:48,49; ) the wheat (new man created in the image of Him that created him) is gather unto the Gardener, we're His & He's ours, Acts 1:9-11; Daniel 7:13;
It's a spiritual encounter & habitation with the One true God, John 17:24; here & now, Acts 4:32,33;
Do you perceive the wonderous honor & glory of God's Great Salvation, on earth as it is in heaven.
I would agree with all except, for the last sentence, beginning with "Absolute Purity". Luke 6:40; 1John 4:17; Rom 12:1; the plain write of the words used denotes we're still living in this world.
Hypocrites; I don't believe you intentionally imply this, yet the results of your statement implying this. They did not speak of the new birth, but from the new birth, 2Cor 5:17; Ezekiel 36:25,26,27; heart of flesh; denotes our life now in the flesh. Eph 4:24; you put Him on, here; Col 3:10; The apostles lived, enjoy & possessed what they preached; Philippians 3:15,16; Again, what God required of us is to live according to the measure of the Truth that He has revealed, the apostles received Acts 1:8' Eph 1:19; Eph 3:20; Col 1:29; to do so.
You stated "has sin left them or ever leave them: Never, but they can have victory over sin; this is an oxymoron. Being born again of His Spirit alias; Matt 3:11-12; the threshing floor of the heart is thoroughly purge of the chaff. (sin nature), the spiritual old man of sin, the Adamic nature that animates the flesh. He's deny, mortify & final crucify, he's dead & self is seen no more. All by the Grace appearance within our hearts.
Friend,,,,your covering yourself, but not with the Spirit of the Lord, but with; Gen 3:7;
Your the understanding is veiled, for only the spirit of darkness would plead for sin to remain within one, after all that God has wrought & revealed to us through His Son. For he (Satan) knows that despite one's profession, though maybe ever so high or lofty, & profess with elegant words, it what one does that defines him, Rom 6:16; John 8:34; Rom 2:6;
Hebrews 9:11,12,13,14,15; do you hear what the Spirit is saying here? The flesh purified, OT, now in NT even our conscience cleanse, the heart. Eternal inheritance Roman 8:17; 2 Pet 1:4; John 17:21-23;
The questions I posted and the scripture after them were in my understanding were answering the questions, sorry if that did not make sense or if they do not answer them for you.
Was Jesus baptized with the Spirit during His water baptism or before? It was not before it was after Jesus was water baptized and come up from the water He was then anointed with the Holy Spirit.
Luke 4:1 Jesus was full of the Holy Spirit and the Spirit led, meaning to lead, bring, carry so the Spirit led or carried Jesus to the wilderness. It may be similar to when Philip was whisk away, Acts 8:39
John 3:34 "for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him" Measure means limited so Jesus was anointed with the Holy Spirit with no limits like what we see in 1 Cor. 12 the diversities of gifts no one received them all, with Jesus there was no limit to the power of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 2:32-33 My understanding is this part of Peter's explanation of what people were seeing. Jesus made the promise that when He went back to the Father He would ask the Father to send the Holy Ghost/Spirit to them, Luke 24:49John 14:26Acts 1:4-8. They were seeing God's answer to Jesus's request to send the Holy Ghost/Spirit. I hope that makes sense.
The Father could not send the Holy Ghost/Spirit until Jesus was glorified John 7:39 and that was after He was resurrected, Jesus did not need the Holy Ghost/Spirit after He received His glorified body. When the Holy Ghost/Spirit left Jesus and went back to God in heaven if it was at Jesus's death or when, I do not know.
I hope this all made sense thank you for your reply.
When Jesus first came it was for only the lost sheep of Israel the same for the prophecy of Dan. 9:25-27Matt. 15:24. Jesus instructed the disciples/apostles not to go unto the Samaritans or Gentiles Matt. 10:5-7. He also told them to stay in Jerusalem and wait for the promise of the Holy Spirit Acts 1:4-5.
And we see they stayed in Jerusalem because they had not yet been told it was time to carry the gospel to the Gentiles and we see the confusion of it in Acts. This did not happen for another 3.5 years. We see in Acts 7 Stephen was in front of the high priest and the other leaders, the same ones who called for Jesus's crucifixion and what they said in Acts 7:54-57 (they cried out and stopped their ears) and killed Stephen. They fully rejected Jesus as the Messiah the Son of God.
Stephen's death as the first Martyr 34-35 AD is 3.5 years after Jesus's crucifixion this would end the 70th week. Jesus confirmed the covenant Himself for the first 3.5 years and Jesus through His apostles for the last 3.5 years.
Then the persecution by the Jews Acts 8:1-4 After this Philip the Evangelist was the first to go to Samaria, and when the apostles heard, Peter and John went to see Acts 8:14-25. Then Saul/Paul's conversion, Acts 9. Peter had his dream in Acts 10 and the mystery of the gospel goes to the Gentiles.
I hope this all though brief will give enough to show my understanding and enough you can study it if you want. Thank you again for having this peaceful and respectful discussion on this important subject.
You are replying to a comment by "Bagwill" 5 days ago:
Where in the Bible does it say that it's okay for women to be preachers.
MOUNTHOREB REPLY: Woman can prophecy not new info outside of the scriptures 2 Timothy 3:15-17. However, They preach what they have learned to others outside of the church or congregation. When asked a question about the bible. a woman can reply to anyone who is asking the question. even if it's a man, elder 1 Timothy 3 or someone in authority. but within the church or congregation 1 Timothy 3, a woman does not have authority over a man to speak to the whole church or Congregation 1Timothy 2:11,12,14 (unless there's no men available, if this is the case she covers her head within the congregation to PREACH 1 Corinthians 11:5;16 because of the angels in heaven) however, Outside of the building, yes a woman can teach others outside (family, neighbors etc.) Acts 2:16,17.
Jesus allowed women to speak to him and listen. even sit at his feet and ask questions. he allowed woman to speak and listened to them. and to follow him as he preached. Luke 1:36-38; John 4:7-54; John 11:20-29; John 20:11-18; Acts 1:14; Luke 8:1-3; Luke 10:38-42; Romans 16:1-5; Acts 18:2; Acts 18:24-26;
In marriage: Ephesians 5:21-33
These are all the scriptures I can think of. Revelation 22:17 "Its free"
If we go back to Eve. she gave birth ( Genesis 1:27,28;4:1,2;5:25). some of these offspring's died by means of old age,
Genesis 3:19; Genesis 6:3, violance or destroyed by the flood ( Genesis 6:5-7,11-13;17). Only Noah his wife, Shem, Ham, and Japheth their 3 wives survived. that means only eight people survived out of Adams and eve's children and grand children.
The point! not all of Noah's children listened to God. They followed Satan the devil and his lies Genesis 3. when you read about the Canaanites ( Genesis 13:7; Leviticus 18:1-5) this bad nation came through Ham descendance ( Genesis 10:6). or Ammorites, some Noah's descendance created a nation by their family name Genesis 11. When Jehovah ( psalm 83:18) confused their language they all spread out and became nations of people like you see today.
to the point: Abraham was a righteous man who lived in Canaan. but one of God's angels told him to leave Canaan then became a father to a nation of Israel ( Genesis 17:1-8). God name Jacob Israel ( Genesis 32:28). this is how a Nation of Isreal came about. Canaan land later became Jerusalem belonging to Israel the Jews.
However, Israel repeatedly sinned by worshiping other gods. even Solomon the last king worshiped false Gods ( Nehemiah 13:23-27) Jesus turned to the Gentiles which means nation who will believe ( John 3:16,17).
However, their are some Israelites who did believe, but most rejected Jesus.- Acts 1:6-8; Matthew 24:14; 2 Timothy 3:13-17
It's a lot of info. but I hope the bible answered your question HOW A NATION BECAME A INDEPENDANT NATION
COMPARING PREMILLENNIAL AND AMILLENNIAL VIEW POINTS.
By way of recap we're comparing the way these two groups interpret the scripture surrounding the Abrahamic and Davidic Covenants.
Part 5.
In Hosea 3:4-5. before the Babylonian captivity, it was predicted: "For the children of Israel shall abide many days without king or Prince...
"Afterward SHALL THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL return, and seek the LORD their God, and David their king; and shall fear the LORD and his goodness in the latter days.
Hosea 3:5
Also;
Amos 9:11.
Zachariah 14:4.
Zachariah 14:9.
This of is not a contradiction of the fulfillment of the Davidic covenant, but is a part of the same picture.
and many more OT references.
LET'S REVIEW THE NEW TESTAMENT.
According to Luke 1:30-33 the angel Gabriel told Mary that she is to be the mother of Christ and Christ will reign on the throne of His father David over the house of Jacob.
To Mary "the house of Jacob" could mean only one thing and that is the descendants of Jacob, namely, the twelve tribes of Israel.
It seems the disciples and others anticipated much the same kind of a literal fulfillment.
Matthew 19:28.
Matthew 20:20-21.
Luke 22:29-30.
Acts 1:6-7. The disciples were still anticipating an earthly kingdom and hoped for its immediately.
Christ did not say that their hope was vain and that there was not going to be a literal fulfillment. He replied: "It is not for you to know the times or seasons, which the Father hath set within his own authority."
But He directs their attention to the immediately task before them, and to the power of the Holyspirit Spirit and proclaim the Gospel to the whole world.
Now this is where the line is drawn from dealing with Israel until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Confirming verses at the council in Jerusalem in Acts 15:13-17.
The baptism of repentance to the lost sheep of Israel.
This was to Identify them with their savior.
In Matthew 3:15 Jesus was also baptized with this baptism to Identify the savior with the people and to fulfill all righteousness, he needed no repentance.
Acts 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
JOHNS MISSION;
Luke 1:16-17. And many of ( THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL ) shall he turn to the Lord their God.
And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, TO TURN THE HEARTS OF THE FATHERS TO THE CHILDREN, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready A PEOPLE prepared for the Lord.
Luke 1:67-74. And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,
Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,
And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;
As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:
That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;
To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;
The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,
That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,
Today we are baptized by the Spirit of God.
Acts 1:5. For John truly baptized with water; ( BUT) ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
Most of the apostles were John's disciples before joining Jesus. In that incident just before Pentecost when the apostles were to choose another disciple in Judas' place, Peter said to the rest of them, ( Acts 1:21-22) "Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, BEGINING FROM THE BAPTISM OF JOHN, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.". Some like Matthew were not John's disciples, but I suppose a large number of them were. Surely Peter, Andrew, John, James (the incident in the sea of Galilee), also Phillip and Nathanael ( John 1:45-52). So at least 6 out 12.
Were they baptized John's baptism?
In Luke 7:29-30 Jesus said to Pharisees, "And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John. But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him.".
Also in Luke 3:3 says, "And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;"
So it was the counsel of God Hebrews to be baptized (how about the christian baptism?). Also it was for the remission of sins. So it was something so important that John's disciples had to do. Once John baptized others even Jesus, didn't he baptize his own disciples? So they were all baptized John's baptism.
Where they baptised the christian baptism later on? In Acts 19: 4-5 when Paul meets those disciples in Ephessus told them, "Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus." So all had to be baptised again in the name of Jesus. So as a conclusion the apostles were baptized both tJohn's and the christian baptism.
Hi Justjay & thanks for your question. You asked about Mark 14:17-21 about Judas' betrayal of Jesus. In John 17:6-19 (in Jesus' prayer to His Father, just prior to this betrayal by Judas), Jesus prayed for His disciples & in particular v12: "While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled". Jesus, of course was referring to Judas as the "son of perdition", but was declaring that Judas, as a disciple, would be lost because of the fulfillment of Scripture.
So yes, God is All-knowing & certainly Jesus knew about Judas' betrayal even before he was appointed amongst the twelve, but through that Divine Knowledge, the prophecy had already been made approx 1000 years earlier (in Psalm 41:9). See also Psalm 55:12-15; Psalm 69:25; and Psalm 109:6-8: these passages also allude to the one who would ultimately betray Jesus. And the Apostle Peter also refers to Psalm 69:25, in his message in Acts 1:20. So yes, this betrayal was pre-ordained, in accordance with prophecy. And there could be other reasons why God permitted/ordained this to happen. Reasons such as proof of the veracity of God's Word & Power, a powerful testimony to the disciples of true discipleship & faithfulness in spite of doubts & Satan's taunts, and even to Judas, of his harboring great sin & allowing it to be manifested to the point of killing the Messiah. Jesus had to die to pay the ransom for our sins, "but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born" ( Matthew 26:24).
Should we then feel sorry for Judas, thinking 'this poor man was ordained to pre-mature death & had not choice in the matter?' No, Judas acted because of his own wickedness (not forced upon him by God); Judas because of his sin, fulfilled the prophecy & Plan of God for him & Jesus' Sacrifice.
Well in my previous post I mentioned Judas, a person who in the begining was one of the top disciples, chosen as a member of the 12 apostles, who had a unique ministry to serve ( Acts 1:17, "For he (Judas)was numbered with us (the 12, Peter said ), and had obtained part of this ministry"), he was predestined by God to sit on a throne and judge the 12 tribes of Israel (what an honor and a priviledge!) but during his ministry he let the devil work his heart and at the end he became a devil by becoming his Lord's traitor. What a horrible ending! The transformation from one of the top disciples to a devil was not done overnight, it was gradual as he was letting his heart love money instead of God. A perfect example (to avoid) about what can happen to a christian if they are not careful about what enters their heart and where that is going to lead them.
Ananias and Sapphira was another example to avoid ( Acts 5). Believers that tried to trick the apostles about the price they sold their field. So they actually lied to the Holly Spirit and fell dead, executed by God. I know the word execution sounds a bit horrible but this is exactly what God did to them. The same that God did to Korah and his family when the rebbelled against Moses. The same end Saul the first king had. The same end Balaam the prophet had. The former although humble in the beggining, he ended loving honor and fame more than God. A perfect example about those who fall in love with the gifts and not with the gifter. The latter also loved riches and honor more than God and exterminated later by the Israelites. How about Elisha's servant Gehasi ( 2 Kings 5) and many more stories about people of God who lost everything, even their eternal lives.
Here I have to stop and go back to Ananias and Sapphira. Some try to explain their end by saying that although God punished them with death they were still saved. Surprising explanation, to fit that specific belief.
Jesus told His 12 at the last supper, Matt. 26:29Mark. 14:25, He would not drink of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new in my Father's kingdom, in the kingdom of God. This can only be either when Jesus sets the kingdom up for the 1000 years, or when all is made new, a new earth and a new heaven, but it would be on earth not in heaven.
If we use fine linen, clean and white to identify the Church as the armies coming out of heaven we see in scripture many times the angels appear in white, white linen, and pure and white linen, Matt. 28:3John 20:12Acts 1:10Rev. 16:6 and many more, and the bride in Rev. 19:8 the fine linen is the righteousness of saints, is this just the righteousness of the Church or all the saints?
The earth is round and the gathering of the elect/saints will come from all over as a delegation meeting Jesus in the air as He is coming down to set up the kingdom as we see in Matt. 24:31. The armies in heaven are angels coming with Jesus the gathering will happen on the way down.
I know I probably did not touch on all, there are so many parts. I hope this shows some of my understanding, but I still do not see where anyone is taken to heaven.
Thanks for your reply, if we inspire each other in love to study it is good.
Pierre1939 AKA Alex. ( Acts 1:9-11) v.9 Tells us "he was taken up; and a (cloud) received him out of their sight" v.11 Tells us "this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven" What would "like manner" be? A cloud received Him, so He will return in the clouds, or with clouds. The word (cloud) is #3507; it means cloudiness, a cloud. ( Rev 1:7) "Behold he cometh with (clouds); and every eye shall see him" This is not symbolic language for people. It is literally Jesus coming in the clouds. ( 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17) v16 Tells "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout" He does not come to the earth here, How do we know that? v.17 Tells us "Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them ((in the clouds)) to meet the Lord ((in the air))" We meet Jesus Christ in the ((air)). Your comment about women's dresses flying up, and men having heart attacks because of heights and no oxygen up there will not be a problem Alex. ( 1 Cor 15:50) Tells us "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God" ( 1 Cor 15:51-55) Tells us "in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump; for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and WE SHALL BE CHANGED. We will all be changed to spiritual bodies to enter into the kingdom of God, there will be NO FLESH AND BLOOD. The return of Jesus in the clouds is not symbolic language. ( Mt 24:29-31) v.29 tells us "Immediately after the tribulation" v.30 tells us "and they shall see the Son of man ((coming in the clouds)) of heaven with power and great glory. ( Mt 26:62-64) v.64 ((coming in the clouds)) of heaven. (Jesus Christ will return in the clouds and True Believers will meet Him in the air in spiritual bodies) This is Biblical Truth, it is not symbolic language! Truth matters. Blessings.
You have completely misrepresented my words. If you are referring to what Jesus said in Acts 1:8, then yes, I agree, it would be a big mistake on my part to believe that we as believers do not have a responsibility to represent Christ throughout the world. What I said had nothing to do with that. And I am not saying that we as believers do not have a responsibility to be witnesses of Jesus Christ.
In Acts 1:8, Jesus says you are going to receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you. There's a difference in texts when He says you shall be witnesses unto me. Some manuscripts say of me, the Genitive Case. He says you'll be my witnesses, not witnesses for me. But either one that you use, it is interesting that it is presented as fact. It doesn't say that when the Holy Spirit comes upon you, you ought to be, or you should be. He says you will be my witnesses.
That's because at the end of John Chapters 14 and 16, He says when the Holy Spirit comes, He will testify of me. It is the Holy Spirit in every believer that testifies to Christ through the believer. We don't testify. We don't ever bring anybody to Christ. It's the Holy Spirit through us. So, you will be my witnesses, factual statement!
And you are also correct in saying that "Saints are spoken of again and again in Revelation, and saints are those who believe in Jesus, whether Jews of Gentiles." I have never once said that there will not be any saints during the tribulation period. The book of Revelation speaks of many who will be saved during the tribulation. Those who are saved during the tribulation will become saints, but it will cost them their lives.
Thanks for your reply, here is a short version that may explain.
I tried to keep it short, my understanding of scripture is there is not a pre-tribulation rapture, also if rapture means being taken to heaven pre, mid, or post-tribulation, scripture does not support that. Much of that is based on the 70th week in Daniel my understanding has been fulfilled.
In scripture, the gathering of the saint's destination will be in Israel not heaven, when the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled, Luke 21:24, the same place the saints will be when Satan is released Rev. 20:7-10 when the armies of Satan will be devoured with fire. Then the final judgment.
Jesus's second coming is to set up the kingdom and to reign on earth, Rev. 19:11-21. On that day His feet shall stand on the ground from where He left, Acts 1:9Zech. 14:4.
When Jesus returns, every eye shall see Matt. 24:27Rev. 1:7 With a great sound of a trumpet, Matt. 24:30-31, At the last trump, 1 Cor. 15:52, With the trump of God, 1 Thes. 4:16, The seventh angel sounded the last trump Rev. 11:15-19.
Then the wrath of God when Jesus returns, Rev. 6:15-17. And as we see in Revelation there are two resurrections, the first, all who are resurrected will reign with Jesus on earth, not heaven.
Hope this makes sense, I understand there are different understandings, but it is good to have a loving and respectful discussion.
By way of review I would like to remind us the context and topic.
1st the title of this post. ISRAEL GODS ELECT.
2nd The elect mentioned in Matthew 24 is Israel not the Church.
3rd The focus on Daniel 9 and Matthew 24 is Israel. Thanks.
In my last post I placed emphasis on the Desciples asking for "signs" of his coming to restore the kingdom and emphasis on the answer the Lord gave them.
(He gave them what they asked for.)
"The signs".
In Acts 1:6 they asked him directly "wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
Notice; They wasn't asking for signs this time. ( He has left them and come back and still no Kingdom!)
He answered them in vs 7.
It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
vs 8 he puts them to work building on the foundation he has laid by his death and resurrection. "Church things, Not kingdom.
We're in the interval several days after the 69th week when he was presented as king riding on a donkey. and then crucified as Daniel 9:26 presents.
"And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself:"
As I mentioned earlier Jesus points the Desciples to Daniel 9:27 as a sign in Matthew 24:15.
I understand you are busy with work and your concerns about your brother, so not to rush, not on Daniel, but just a few things to consider about Matthew 24. My understanding of Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 is twofold, for then, and our future.
The reason is, history tells us the believers in Jesus got out and went to Pella across the Jordan river before the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD. And on the sabbath, today would not matter but then the gates would be locked, and it would be hard to leave.
Matt. 24:3, in Mark, we see it was Peter, James, John, and Andrew that ask Jesus in private. Jesus had just told them the temple would be destroyed and Matthew records "what sign of thy coming and the end of the world." It is easy to jump to they were talking about Jesus' second coming, but.
Jesus' crucifixion and resurrection were hidden from them until all was done. Luke 9:44-45Luke 18:31-34 and after they did not believe He resurrected. Mark 20:9-11Luke 24:6-8, John 20:9. Even right before He ascended, they were expecting Jesus to set up the kingdom then, Acts 1:6. So why in Matthew 24:3 would we interpret it as if they were asking Jesus about His second coming?
I will send you by this weekend what I have studied on the six things determined in Daniel 9:24 if I can shorten it enough, I do not like to send long posts. If you don't want me to post it let me know.
In Acts 1:10-11, when the Lord ascended up into Heaven, the angel said why do you disciples look up into heaven? Why are you gazing up there? This same Jesus will come in like manner. He will come in the clouds. The actual event recorded is in Revelation 19:11-16, the second coming of Christ. He comes with power and great glory. Revelation 24:31 tells us that when He does come, He shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet.
I am going to get technical for a moment, just to show how good this passage really is. He is going to send His angels out with a great sound of a Shofar. It's a ram's horn. In the Greek text, the word "sound" is in brackets, which means it has been added to the text by some unseen person who doesn't understand the fact that the word "great" modifies the trumpet. It is called a great Shofar. The prophecy is in Isaiah 27:12-13. It says the great Shofar will blow, and the Lord will gather His people from the four corners of the earth.
So that is very important because that's a prophecy that the Jews looked for. It says He is going to gather them together, (his elect), that would be the Jews, from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other, north, south, east, and west.
This is my understanding of this section of Matthew.
Jesus was the fulfillment of Scripture in the Old Testament. Luke 24:19-27, Psalms 22, Isaiah 53, Zechariah 13:6, & many more.
The Holy Scriptures are broken down in Books & Separated by New Testament & Old Testament, none of which have been accredited as authored by Jesus. However many believe all were written about Jesus (redemption ) The Old Testament is before Jesus was born. The New Testament begins with Jesus birth, death on cross, resurrection from the grave, the witnessed accounts of Jesus life, ministry, miracles. Then continues the Good News os Salvation & ministry of the Church. Christians & Messianic Jews believe in the New Testament as Christ The Messiah the promised everlasting savior. Psalms 93:2, 1Kings 9:5, Zechariah 6:12-13, Psalms 89:3,4, 1Chronicles 17:11-27, Hebrews 8,
Matthew 8:4, Jesus obeyed scripture, Mark 1:44, & Jesus parents on Earth obeyed scripture, Luke 2:22,
Jesus gave us the Holy Spirit = Luke 11, John 20:21-22, Luke 12, Acts 1:5, John 14:16,26, John 15:26,
Hi Cindy. As far as Paul & Silas being imprisoned together, you can find this full account in Acts 16:16-40. I'm unsure if you're referring to healing that Paul administered by the Holy Spirit's Power, but there are accounts in Acts 14:8-10 and Acts 28:8,9 of this.
Or, if you want to read the many other verses pertaining to healing, then this Site has helps on this topic & others. At the top of this page, go to 'More', then to 'Bible Verses About Various Topics' (under Bible Study Help). Then go to 'H' and search for 'Healing, etc.'
The earth is the Lord's and the fulness thereof. 1Corinthians 10:26, Psalms 24:1, Psalms 89:11, Psalms 50:12, Ephesians 1:10, Daniel 2:20-22, Genesis 1:28, Luke 9:1, 1Corinthians 15:23-28, John 19:5-11
Proverbs 29:2, Revelation 3:10,
Matthew 28:18, Acts 1:8, Matthew 18:18, Mark 16:17-19
One doesn't. 1 Cor 4.9 "God hath set forth us the apostles last, as it were appointed to death" there are no more apostles today because the work of an apostle (as well as prophecy and revelation) are finished/completed. Defining the word "apostle" just simply by one being "sent" doesn't cut the mustard.
It's like the word "perfect." There is a worldly and biblical definition for the word. So it is with the word "apostle." The worldly definition isn't even worth acknowledging. Is the Bible the final authority or not, after all? There's specific requirements to be a biblical apostle. They are no longer in effect. For the 12, you had to be apart of the Lord's earthy ministry since the beginning of his ministry ( Acts 1:21-22). Then Paul is a completely separate apostle by revelation of Jesus Christ. ( Gal 1:1, 12 /// 1 Tim 1:16 /// 2 Tim 1:9)
There are no more apostles. Now there are only ambassadors of Christ, whom God commits all the ministry of reconciliation ( 2 Cor 5:18-19).
The spirit of revelation and wisdom in the knowledge of him, as well as grace be unto and peace, from God our Father and our Lord Jesus Christ.
Greetings in Christ JESUS
Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth - Matthew 5:5KJV combined with Revelation 5:10
It's impressive, but it has been two thousand years since JESUS came here, think well about it, passing two thousand years is a gigantic space of time, in fact a huge gap or interval in space and time, but it passed, but will continue to pass. The time is infinite, like the space is infinite too.
And now JESUS WILL RETURN AGAIN HERE IN THE SAME PLACE from where He ascended to the third heavenly environment and a cloud RECEIVED Him ( Acts 1:11) , yes, He will again return now to the same place from where He ascended, and He will reign and lead us in new celestial environment ( Ephesians 1:3) by His power, for a period of 1.000 years(the cloud also will appear again, understand?) , as it is revealed in Philippians 3:20-21: -->20 For our conversation is in heaven (heaven: Ephesians 1:3. Take a look.)-; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: 21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto His glorious body, according to the working whereby He is able even to subdue all things unto himself. By the way, He made it very clear when He said: All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth- Matthew 28:18KJV.
Get ready, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet Him- Matthew 25:6KJV - .
Lets pray
Unfortunately , there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Hey brother, I don't mean to intrude between you Hemorlan, and Texsis on this but my understanding is at this time the apostles had not been told the Gospel will also be given to the Gentiles, the time had not come. There were another 3.5 years after Jesus's ministry before the apostles were told the gospel of Christ will be given to the Greeks/Gentiles, the mystery, Rom. 16:24-25.
The Apostles stayed in Jerusalem and surrounding Jewish communities until after Stephen's death, and the persecutions. Philip the evangelist was the first to carry the gospel to the Samaritans, Peter had his dream, and Paul's conversion. To me, it is a fulfillment that Jesus had told them but they did not understand, it like they did not understand He was going to die on the cross, Acts 1:8.
He told them the Comforter would come John 14:25-26 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. 26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
They were learning from the Holy Spirit as we see in Acts 15, a learning curve, not a transition from the old to the new but a fulfillment and teaching of Jesus through the Holy Spirit same as we learn today.
God bless,
RLW
Christ has already come & that in Spirit, He told His disciples; Mark 9:1; Matt 16:28; over 2000 yrs ago, which came in full power at Pentecost.
I will not leave you comfortless, but you will see me again, that your joy maybe full, & Christ doesn't come alone, He brings His Father within Him, They became Ephesians 2:22; John 17:21-23; & they Micah 4:3;
Hebrews 9:28; is Titus 2:11; diffusing the fragrance of His knowledge in every heart. 2Cor 4:6 This is Titus 2:13; describing His 2nd appearance in Spirit. Who continually gives of Himself that Titus 2:14;
As for this son of perdition; it's the old Adamic nature that is rule by Ephesians 6:12; who's coming 2Thessalonians 2:9; this spirit works even deceive the very elect, who, we all must engage with within 2 Cor 10:3-5; Jesus says; Matt 15:18,19; for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks, so their within us. Think about this, we all have these thoughts spring up within us, 1 Pet 4:3; thus Jesus commands; Luke 14:27; The ones, Satan does deceive is explain, 2 Thessalonians 2:10-12; they refuse to believe the Witness, whom God has place within conscience. John 16:8; John 12:47-50; Jesus says, 8:24; Therefore were He has gone one cannot go.
Both seeds are spiritual, both kingdoms are within mankind.
This rapture theory John 17:11:15 "not to take them out of the world". But describes receiving 1Pet 1:5-9;The cumulation is the Baptism of the Holy Spirt, describing 2 Cor 10:6; resulting from Titus 3:5; by 1Pet 1:23; unto John 3:3; the chaff, ( old man sin nature is thoroughly purges out without a trace, Daniel 2:34,35; these earthen vessels, 1Cor 15:48,49; ) the wheat (new man created in the image of Him that created him) is gather unto the Gardener, we're His & He's ours, Acts 1:9-11; Daniel 7:13;
It's a spiritual encounter & habitation with the One true God, John 17:24; here & now, Acts 4:32,33;
Do you perceive the wonderous honor & glory of God's Great Salvation, on earth as it is in heaven.
Rom 5:12-14
I would agree with all except, for the last sentence, beginning with "Absolute Purity". Luke 6:40; 1John 4:17; Rom 12:1; the plain write of the words used denotes we're still living in this world.
Hypocrites; I don't believe you intentionally imply this, yet the results of your statement implying this. They did not speak of the new birth, but from the new birth, 2Cor 5:17; Ezekiel 36:25,26,27; heart of flesh; denotes our life now in the flesh. Eph 4:24; you put Him on, here; Col 3:10; The apostles lived, enjoy & possessed what they preached; Philippians 3:15,16; Again, what God required of us is to live according to the measure of the Truth that He has revealed, the apostles received Acts 1:8' Eph 1:19; Eph 3:20; Col 1:29; to do so.
You stated "has sin left them or ever leave them: Never, but they can have victory over sin; this is an oxymoron. Being born again of His Spirit alias; Matt 3:11-12; the threshing floor of the heart is thoroughly purge of the chaff. (sin nature), the spiritual old man of sin, the Adamic nature that animates the flesh. He's deny, mortify & final crucify, he's dead & self is seen no more. All by the Grace appearance within our hearts.
Friend,,,,your covering yourself, but not with the Spirit of the Lord, but with; Gen 3:7;
Your the understanding is veiled, for only the spirit of darkness would plead for sin to remain within one, after all that God has wrought & revealed to us through His Son. For he (Satan) knows that despite one's profession, though maybe ever so high or lofty, & profess with elegant words, it what one does that defines him, Rom 6:16; John 8:34; Rom 2:6;
Hebrews 9:11,12,13,14,15; do you hear what the Spirit is saying here? The flesh purified, OT, now in NT even our conscience cleanse, the heart. Eternal inheritance Roman 8:17; 2 Pet 1:4; John 17:21-23;
Therefore, 2Cor 7:1;
In Love & Truth
Frankie J
My understanding
The questions I posted and the scripture after them were in my understanding were answering the questions, sorry if that did not make sense or if they do not answer them for you.
Was Jesus baptized with the Spirit during His water baptism or before? It was not before it was after Jesus was water baptized and come up from the water He was then anointed with the Holy Spirit.
Luke 4:1 Jesus was full of the Holy Spirit and the Spirit led, meaning to lead, bring, carry so the Spirit led or carried Jesus to the wilderness. It may be similar to when Philip was whisk away, Acts 8:39
John 3:34 "for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him" Measure means limited so Jesus was anointed with the Holy Spirit with no limits like what we see in 1 Cor. 12 the diversities of gifts no one received them all, with Jesus there was no limit to the power of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 2:32-33 My understanding is this part of Peter's explanation of what people were seeing. Jesus made the promise that when He went back to the Father He would ask the Father to send the Holy Ghost/Spirit to them, Luke 24:49 John 14:26 Acts 1:4-8. They were seeing God's answer to Jesus's request to send the Holy Ghost/Spirit. I hope that makes sense.
The Father could not send the Holy Ghost/Spirit until Jesus was glorified John 7:39 and that was after He was resurrected, Jesus did not need the Holy Ghost/Spirit after He received His glorified body. When the Holy Ghost/Spirit left Jesus and went back to God in heaven if it was at Jesus's death or when, I do not know.
I hope this all made sense thank you for your reply.
God bless,
RLW
Part 2
When Jesus first came it was for only the lost sheep of Israel the same for the prophecy of Dan. 9:25-27 Matt. 15:24. Jesus instructed the disciples/apostles not to go unto the Samaritans or Gentiles Matt. 10:5-7. He also told them to stay in Jerusalem and wait for the promise of the Holy Spirit Acts 1:4-5.
And we see they stayed in Jerusalem because they had not yet been told it was time to carry the gospel to the Gentiles and we see the confusion of it in Acts. This did not happen for another 3.5 years. We see in Acts 7 Stephen was in front of the high priest and the other leaders, the same ones who called for Jesus's crucifixion and what they said in Acts 7:54-57 (they cried out and stopped their ears) and killed Stephen. They fully rejected Jesus as the Messiah the Son of God.
Stephen's death as the first Martyr 34-35 AD is 3.5 years after Jesus's crucifixion this would end the 70th week. Jesus confirmed the covenant Himself for the first 3.5 years and Jesus through His apostles for the last 3.5 years.
Then the persecution by the Jews Acts 8:1-4 After this Philip the Evangelist was the first to go to Samaria, and when the apostles heard, Peter and John went to see Acts 8:14-25. Then Saul/Paul's conversion, Acts 9. Peter had his dream in Acts 10 and the mystery of the gospel goes to the Gentiles.
I hope this all though brief will give enough to show my understanding and enough you can study it if you want. Thank you again for having this peaceful and respectful discussion on this important subject.
God bless,
RLW
Where in the Bible does it say that it's okay for women to be preachers.
MOUNTHOREB REPLY: Woman can prophecy not new info outside of the scriptures 2 Timothy 3:15-17. However, They preach what they have learned to others outside of the church or congregation. When asked a question about the bible. a woman can reply to anyone who is asking the question. even if it's a man, elder 1 Timothy 3 or someone in authority. but within the church or congregation 1 Timothy 3, a woman does not have authority over a man to speak to the whole church or Congregation 1Timothy 2:11,12,14 (unless there's no men available, if this is the case she covers her head within the congregation to PREACH 1 Corinthians 11:5;16 because of the angels in heaven) however, Outside of the building, yes a woman can teach others outside (family, neighbors etc.) Acts 2:16,17.
Jesus allowed women to speak to him and listen. even sit at his feet and ask questions. he allowed woman to speak and listened to them. and to follow him as he preached. Luke 1:36-38; John 4:7-54; John 11:20-29; John 20:11-18; Acts 1:14; Luke 8:1-3; Luke 10:38-42; Romans 16:1-5; Acts 18:2; Acts 18:24-26;
In marriage: Ephesians 5:21-33
These are all the scriptures I can think of. Revelation 22:17 "Its free"
When we die do we automatically get to go to heaven or do we have to wait until the resurrection?
MountHoreb Reply: I personally can't recall at the moment Jesus giving any details
regarding The Apostles quick resurrection.
But We do have evidence of Jesus Resurrection Luke 24:46. when he died he was on the earth as an
invisible spirit Acts 1:3. Jesus as an invisible spirit ( john 4:24) has the ability to materialize into a human
Luke 24:3,5; Acts 1:9-11 . All angels Can transform themselves Luke 24:4; Luke 24:36
We also have an example of Apostle Stephen who was stoned by the infuriated High Priest.
he knew it meant his death for speaking the truth. notice what he said at Acts 7:54-60;
We have proof that Stephen appealed (prayed) to Jesus in Heaven Acts 7:59.
To no disappointment: Jehovah ( Psalm 83:18) Only selected or Chosen a few
to go to heaven according to Revelation 14:1,3. notice the scripture said "from Earth" (redeemed or taken from)
Not all are picked as presidents only one is. and there are those selected under him. Revelation 20:4,6
HOPE THE SCRIPTURES ANSWERED YOUR QUESTION: Psalm 37
Genesis 3:19; Genesis 6:3, violance or destroyed by the flood ( Genesis 6:5-7,11-13;17). Only Noah his wife, Shem, Ham, and Japheth their 3 wives survived. that means only eight people survived out of Adams and eve's children and grand children.
The point! not all of Noah's children listened to God. They followed Satan the devil and his lies Genesis 3. when you read about the Canaanites ( Genesis 13:7; Leviticus 18:1-5) this bad nation came through Ham descendance ( Genesis 10:6). or Ammorites, some Noah's descendance created a nation by their family name Genesis 11. When Jehovah ( psalm 83:18) confused their language they all spread out and became nations of people like you see today.
to the point: Abraham was a righteous man who lived in Canaan. but one of God's angels told him to leave Canaan then became a father to a nation of Israel ( Genesis 17:1-8). God name Jacob Israel ( Genesis 32:28). this is how a Nation of Isreal came about. Canaan land later became Jerusalem belonging to Israel the Jews.
However, Israel repeatedly sinned by worshiping other gods. even Solomon the last king worshiped false Gods ( Nehemiah 13:23-27) Jesus turned to the Gentiles which means nation who will believe ( John 3:16,17).
However, their are some Israelites who did believe, but most rejected Jesus.- Acts 1:6-8; Matthew 24:14; 2 Timothy 3:13-17
It's a lot of info. but I hope the bible answered your question HOW A NATION BECAME A INDEPENDANT NATION
By way of recap we're comparing the way these two groups interpret the scripture surrounding the Abrahamic and Davidic Covenants.
Part 5.
In Hosea 3:4-5. before the Babylonian captivity, it was predicted: "For the children of Israel shall abide many days without king or Prince...
"Afterward SHALL THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL return, and seek the LORD their God, and David their king; and shall fear the LORD and his goodness in the latter days.
Hosea 3:5
Also;
Amos 9:11.
Zachariah 14:4.
Zachariah 14:9.
This of is not a contradiction of the fulfillment of the Davidic covenant, but is a part of the same picture.
and many more OT references.
LET'S REVIEW THE NEW TESTAMENT.
According to Luke 1:30-33 the angel Gabriel told Mary that she is to be the mother of Christ and Christ will reign on the throne of His father David over the house of Jacob.
To Mary "the house of Jacob" could mean only one thing and that is the descendants of Jacob, namely, the twelve tribes of Israel.
It seems the disciples and others anticipated much the same kind of a literal fulfillment.
Matthew 19:28.
Matthew 20:20-21.
Luke 22:29-30.
Acts 1:6-7. The disciples were still anticipating an earthly kingdom and hoped for its immediately.
Christ did not say that their hope was vain and that there was not going to be a literal fulfillment. He replied: "It is not for you to know the times or seasons, which the Father hath set within his own authority."
But He directs their attention to the immediately task before them, and to the power of the Holyspirit Spirit and proclaim the Gospel to the whole world.
Now this is where the line is drawn from dealing with Israel until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Confirming verses at the council in Jerusalem in Acts 15:13-17.
More on this later.
God bless.
The baptism of repentance to the lost sheep of Israel.
This was to Identify them with their savior.
In Matthew 3:15 Jesus was also baptized with this baptism to Identify the savior with the people and to fulfill all righteousness, he needed no repentance.
Acts 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
JOHNS MISSION;
Luke 1:16-17. And many of ( THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL ) shall he turn to the Lord their God.
And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, TO TURN THE HEARTS OF THE FATHERS TO THE CHILDREN, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready A PEOPLE prepared for the Lord.
Luke 1:67-74. And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,
Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,
And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;
As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:
That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;
To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;
The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,
That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,
Today we are baptized by the Spirit of God.
Acts 1:5. For John truly baptized with water; ( BUT) ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
Matthew 3:11.
1 Corinthians 12:13.
God bless.
Hello Jesse, and GiGi
Most of the apostles were John's disciples before joining Jesus. In that incident just before Pentecost when the apostles were to choose another disciple in Judas' place, Peter said to the rest of them, ( Acts 1:21-22) "Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, BEGINING FROM THE BAPTISM OF JOHN, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.". Some like Matthew were not John's disciples, but I suppose a large number of them were. Surely Peter, Andrew, John, James (the incident in the sea of Galilee), also Phillip and Nathanael ( John 1:45-52). So at least 6 out 12.
Were they baptized John's baptism?
In Luke 7:29-30 Jesus said to Pharisees, "And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John. But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him.".
Also in Luke 3:3 says, "And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;"
So it was the counsel of God Hebrews to be baptized (how about the christian baptism?). Also it was for the remission of sins. So it was something so important that John's disciples had to do. Once John baptized others even Jesus, didn't he baptize his own disciples? So they were all baptized John's baptism.
Where they baptised the christian baptism later on? In Acts 19: 4-5 when Paul meets those disciples in Ephessus told them, "Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus." So all had to be baptised again in the name of Jesus. So as a conclusion the apostles were baptized both tJohn's and the christian baptism.
So yes, God is All-knowing & certainly Jesus knew about Judas' betrayal even before he was appointed amongst the twelve, but through that Divine Knowledge, the prophecy had already been made approx 1000 years earlier (in Psalm 41:9). See also Psalm 55:12-15; Psalm 69:25; and Psalm 109:6-8: these passages also allude to the one who would ultimately betray Jesus. And the Apostle Peter also refers to Psalm 69:25, in his message in Acts 1:20. So yes, this betrayal was pre-ordained, in accordance with prophecy. And there could be other reasons why God permitted/ordained this to happen. Reasons such as proof of the veracity of God's Word & Power, a powerful testimony to the disciples of true discipleship & faithfulness in spite of doubts & Satan's taunts, and even to Judas, of his harboring great sin & allowing it to be manifested to the point of killing the Messiah. Jesus had to die to pay the ransom for our sins, "but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born" ( Matthew 26:24).
Should we then feel sorry for Judas, thinking 'this poor man was ordained to pre-mature death & had not choice in the matter?' No, Judas acted because of his own wickedness (not forced upon him by God); Judas because of his sin, fulfilled the prophecy & Plan of God for him & Jesus' Sacrifice.
Assurance of Salvation...cont. Richard.
Well in my previous post I mentioned Judas, a person who in the begining was one of the top disciples, chosen as a member of the 12 apostles, who had a unique ministry to serve ( Acts 1:17, "For he (Judas)was numbered with us (the 12, Peter said ), and had obtained part of this ministry"), he was predestined by God to sit on a throne and judge the 12 tribes of Israel (what an honor and a priviledge!) but during his ministry he let the devil work his heart and at the end he became a devil by becoming his Lord's traitor. What a horrible ending! The transformation from one of the top disciples to a devil was not done overnight, it was gradual as he was letting his heart love money instead of God. A perfect example (to avoid) about what can happen to a christian if they are not careful about what enters their heart and where that is going to lead them.
Ananias and Sapphira was another example to avoid ( Acts 5). Believers that tried to trick the apostles about the price they sold their field. So they actually lied to the Holly Spirit and fell dead, executed by God. I know the word execution sounds a bit horrible but this is exactly what God did to them. The same that God did to Korah and his family when the rebbelled against Moses. The same end Saul the first king had. The same end Balaam the prophet had. The former although humble in the beggining, he ended loving honor and fame more than God. A perfect example about those who fall in love with the gifts and not with the gifter. The latter also loved riches and honor more than God and exterminated later by the Israelites. How about Elisha's servant Gehasi ( 2 Kings 5) and many more stories about people of God who lost everything, even their eternal lives.
Here I have to stop and go back to Ananias and Sapphira. Some try to explain their end by saying that although God punished them with death they were still saved. Surprising explanation, to fit that specific belief.
Jesus told His 12 at the last supper, Matt. 26:29 Mark. 14:25, He would not drink of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new in my Father's kingdom, in the kingdom of God. This can only be either when Jesus sets the kingdom up for the 1000 years, or when all is made new, a new earth and a new heaven, but it would be on earth not in heaven.
If we use fine linen, clean and white to identify the Church as the armies coming out of heaven we see in scripture many times the angels appear in white, white linen, and pure and white linen, Matt. 28:3 John 20:12 Acts 1:10 Rev. 16:6 and many more, and the bride in Rev. 19:8 the fine linen is the righteousness of saints, is this just the righteousness of the Church or all the saints?
The earth is round and the gathering of the elect/saints will come from all over as a delegation meeting Jesus in the air as He is coming down to set up the kingdom as we see in Matt. 24:31. The armies in heaven are angels coming with Jesus the gathering will happen on the way down.
I know I probably did not touch on all, there are so many parts. I hope this shows some of my understanding, but I still do not see where anyone is taken to heaven.
Thanks for your reply, if we inspire each other in love to study it is good.
God bless,
RLW
You have completely misrepresented my words. If you are referring to what Jesus said in Acts 1:8, then yes, I agree, it would be a big mistake on my part to believe that we as believers do not have a responsibility to represent Christ throughout the world. What I said had nothing to do with that. And I am not saying that we as believers do not have a responsibility to be witnesses of Jesus Christ.
In Acts 1:8, Jesus says you are going to receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you. There's a difference in texts when He says you shall be witnesses unto me. Some manuscripts say of me, the Genitive Case. He says you'll be my witnesses, not witnesses for me. But either one that you use, it is interesting that it is presented as fact. It doesn't say that when the Holy Spirit comes upon you, you ought to be, or you should be. He says you will be my witnesses.
That's because at the end of John Chapters 14 and 16, He says when the Holy Spirit comes, He will testify of me. It is the Holy Spirit in every believer that testifies to Christ through the believer. We don't testify. We don't ever bring anybody to Christ. It's the Holy Spirit through us. So, you will be my witnesses, factual statement!
And you are also correct in saying that "Saints are spoken of again and again in Revelation, and saints are those who believe in Jesus, whether Jews of Gentiles." I have never once said that there will not be any saints during the tribulation period. The book of Revelation speaks of many who will be saved during the tribulation. Those who are saved during the tribulation will become saints, but it will cost them their lives.
Need more space, will continue...
Thanks for your reply, here is a short version that may explain.
I tried to keep it short, my understanding of scripture is there is not a pre-tribulation rapture, also if rapture means being taken to heaven pre, mid, or post-tribulation, scripture does not support that. Much of that is based on the 70th week in Daniel my understanding has been fulfilled.
In scripture, the gathering of the saint's destination will be in Israel not heaven, when the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled, Luke 21:24, the same place the saints will be when Satan is released Rev. 20:7-10 when the armies of Satan will be devoured with fire. Then the final judgment.
Jesus's second coming is to set up the kingdom and to reign on earth, Rev. 19:11-21. On that day His feet shall stand on the ground from where He left, Acts 1:9 Zech. 14:4.
When Jesus returns, every eye shall see Matt. 24:27 Rev. 1:7 With a great sound of a trumpet, Matt. 24:30-31, At the last trump, 1 Cor. 15:52, With the trump of God, 1 Thes. 4:16, The seventh angel sounded the last trump Rev. 11:15-19.
Then the wrath of God when Jesus returns, Rev. 6:15-17. And as we see in Revelation there are two resurrections, the first, all who are resurrected will reign with Jesus on earth, not heaven.
Hope this makes sense, I understand there are different understandings, but it is good to have a loving and respectful discussion.
God bless,
RLW
Part 2.
I ended my last reply a little to soon.
By way of review I would like to remind us the context and topic.
1st the title of this post. ISRAEL GODS ELECT.
2nd The elect mentioned in Matthew 24 is Israel not the Church.
3rd The focus on Daniel 9 and Matthew 24 is Israel. Thanks.
In my last post I placed emphasis on the Desciples asking for "signs" of his coming to restore the kingdom and emphasis on the answer the Lord gave them.
(He gave them what they asked for.)
"The signs".
In Acts 1:6 they asked him directly "wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
Notice; They wasn't asking for signs this time. ( He has left them and come back and still no Kingdom!)
He answered them in vs 7.
It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
vs 8 he puts them to work building on the foundation he has laid by his death and resurrection. "Church things, Not kingdom.
We're in the interval several days after the 69th week when he was presented as king riding on a donkey. and then crucified as Daniel 9:26 presents.
"And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself:"
As I mentioned earlier Jesus points the Desciples to Daniel 9:27 as a sign in Matthew 24:15.
I will leave off here for now until this weekend.
Go's bless
I understand you are busy with work and your concerns about your brother, so not to rush, not on Daniel, but just a few things to consider about Matthew 24. My understanding of Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 is twofold, for then, and our future.
The reason is, history tells us the believers in Jesus got out and went to Pella across the Jordan river before the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD. And on the sabbath, today would not matter but then the gates would be locked, and it would be hard to leave.
Matt. 24:3, in Mark, we see it was Peter, James, John, and Andrew that ask Jesus in private. Jesus had just told them the temple would be destroyed and Matthew records "what sign of thy coming and the end of the world." It is easy to jump to they were talking about Jesus' second coming, but.
Jesus' crucifixion and resurrection were hidden from them until all was done. Luke 9:44-45 Luke 18:31-34 and after they did not believe He resurrected. Mark 20:9-11 Luke 24:6-8, John 20:9. Even right before He ascended, they were expecting Jesus to set up the kingdom then, Acts 1:6. So why in Matthew 24:3 would we interpret it as if they were asking Jesus about His second coming?
I will send you by this weekend what I have studied on the six things determined in Daniel 9:24 if I can shorten it enough, I do not like to send long posts. If you don't want me to post it let me know.
God bless,
RLW
Jimbob,
In Acts 1:10-11, when the Lord ascended up into Heaven, the angel said why do you disciples look up into heaven? Why are you gazing up there? This same Jesus will come in like manner. He will come in the clouds. The actual event recorded is in Revelation 19:11-16, the second coming of Christ. He comes with power and great glory. Revelation 24:31 tells us that when He does come, He shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet.
I am going to get technical for a moment, just to show how good this passage really is. He is going to send His angels out with a great sound of a Shofar. It's a ram's horn. In the Greek text, the word "sound" is in brackets, which means it has been added to the text by some unseen person who doesn't understand the fact that the word "great" modifies the trumpet. It is called a great Shofar. The prophecy is in Isaiah 27:12-13. It says the great Shofar will blow, and the Lord will gather His people from the four corners of the earth.
So that is very important because that's a prophecy that the Jews looked for. It says He is going to gather them together, (his elect), that would be the Jews, from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other, north, south, east, and west.
This is my understanding of this section of Matthew.
The Holy Scriptures are broken down in Books & Separated by New Testament & Old Testament, none of which have been accredited as authored by Jesus. However many believe all were written about Jesus (redemption ) The Old Testament is before Jesus was born. The New Testament begins with Jesus birth, death on cross, resurrection from the grave, the witnessed accounts of Jesus life, ministry, miracles. Then continues the Good News os Salvation & ministry of the Church. Christians & Messianic Jews believe in the New Testament as Christ The Messiah the promised everlasting savior. Psalms 93:2, 1Kings 9:5, Zechariah 6:12-13, Psalms 89:3,4, 1Chronicles 17:11-27, Hebrews 8,
Matthew 8:4, Jesus obeyed scripture, Mark 1:44, & Jesus parents on Earth obeyed scripture, Luke 2:22,
Jesus gave us the Holy Spirit = Luke 11, John 20:21-22, Luke 12, Acts 1:5, John 14:16,26, John 15:26,
2Timothy 3:16
Hope these are helpful
Or, if you want to read the many other verses pertaining to healing, then this Site has helps on this topic & others. At the top of this page, go to 'More', then to 'Bible Verses About Various Topics' (under Bible Study Help). Then go to 'H' and search for 'Healing, etc.'
Acts 1:21-22, Acts 2:38,
Acts 16:19-34, Romans 6, 1Corinthians 12, 1Corinthians 12:13, Colossians 2:10-15, 1Peter 3, 1Peter 3:21,22
James 1:5,
Matthew 7, Matthew 25:31-46,
Hopefully these are helpful
Proverbs 29:2, Revelation 3:10,
Matthew 28:18, Acts 1:8, Matthew 18:18, Mark 16:17-19
Mark 16:16,17
Luke 24:47,48
John 3:1-6
Acts 2:38
1 Peter 3:21
Acts 19:1-6
Acts 10:44-48
Acts 5:32
1 Corinthians 14:2,22,39
Acts 2:4
Acts 1:8
John 21:15,16
Acts 1:11"...this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven."
Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all on this platform.
The LORD bless you and keep you. The LORD make HIS face to shine upon you and be gracious to you.
Though it may seem bleak and overpowering, the LORD promised us peace in and through the name of HIS SON, the LORD JESUS CHRIST.
Romans 10: 9-12; 2 Peter 3:9; 1 Timothy 2:1-3; Colossians 3: 1-2
December 27, 2022
How does one become ordained as an Apostle today.
One doesn't. 1 Cor 4.9 "God hath set forth us the apostles last, as it were appointed to death" there are no more apostles today because the work of an apostle (as well as prophecy and revelation) are finished/completed. Defining the word "apostle" just simply by one being "sent" doesn't cut the mustard.
It's like the word "perfect." There is a worldly and biblical definition for the word. So it is with the word "apostle." The worldly definition isn't even worth acknowledging. Is the Bible the final authority or not, after all? There's specific requirements to be a biblical apostle. They are no longer in effect. For the 12, you had to be apart of the Lord's earthy ministry since the beginning of his ministry ( Acts 1:21-22). Then Paul is a completely separate apostle by revelation of Jesus Christ. ( Gal 1:1, 12 /// 1 Tim 1:16 /// 2 Tim 1:9)
There are no more apostles. Now there are only ambassadors of Christ, whom God commits all the ministry of reconciliation ( 2 Cor 5:18-19).
The spirit of revelation and wisdom in the knowledge of him, as well as grace be unto and peace, from God our Father and our Lord Jesus Christ.
Yes ! Luke 24:47,48 Mark 16:16,17 , Acts 2:38 , Acts 4:12 , Acts 19:1-6 , Acts 5:32 ,
1 Corinthians 14:2,22,39. Acts 1:8 , Acts 2:4 , John 21:15 Jesus loves us!
Landon