Just a few things, I am sorry you feel you have been lied to, there are different interpretations out there. If we study Matt. 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 together it helps.
I have found when studying the Bible, we should not start with a preconceived idea, it is easy to see Scriptures that fit a picture we have painted in our mind rather than letting the Scriptures and the Holy Spirit reveal the true meaning.
First, Jesus's death and resurrection were hidden from them, Luke 18:31-34. Even after he was crucified, they were distraught and did not understand the fact that he was killed. John 16:16-20 and we have Luke 24:4-6. Not knowing Jesus was going to die would they be asking Jesus about His second coming?
Is all of Matthew 24 about the end time, many combined it with other prophecies to create a picture of the end time. Some of it is obviously about Jesus's second coming but much of it was to prepare them for what they were to endure up to the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple. False prophets we see there were many before 70 AD, Acts 21:36-38 Acts 8:9 and others. If we look at history there were wars, earthquakes, and famine, Acts 7:11 and Acts 11:28.
Many put Matt. 24:15 and Mark 13:14 at the end time with an antichrist, should we not consider what Luke wrote about the same thing, Luke 21:20 that history has recorded?
One other thing why would Jesus say to pray their flee would not be on a Sabbath day? Today would not be a problem with the transportation we have. Back then the gates of Jerusalem would be locked and would be hard to get out and it would take days to get clear, with a pace of 2.5 mph.
I am with you, we sleep in the grave until resurrection the first of those who are chosen and faithful, Rev. 17:14 at Jesus's second coming and the second, the rest of the dead at the white throne judgment/the sheep and the goats and those whose names are not in the book of life is cast into the lake of fire, Rev. 20:15.
True Christ Followers will be obedient to all of God's 10 Commandments as taught by Jesus in the New Testament."
Well, God's 10 Commandments are identical to Christ's Commandments. Christ didn't change, minimize or abbreviate them in any way. Christ is the Creator of all things and He created the Commandments - there would be no reason for Him to change or rescind any of them.
Christ speaks of obeying the Law, the 10 Commandments, just as they are taught by the scribes and Pharisees in Matt. 23:1-3. He says to "do as they say, but not as they do" because the teachers of the Law at that time were all hypocrites. They taught the 10 Commandments, but kept none of them. That passage proves that Jesus taught the literal keeping of the 10 Commandments, not just the essence, or spirit, of them in our hearts, etc.
Jesus stated, as you pointed out, that He kept all of the Father's 10 Commandments physically when He declared it in John 15:10.
We see that 1 John makes clear that we are to live as Jesus lived, obeying what He obeyed, in 1 John 2:6. That does not support the modern popular teaching that we are only to obey them in spirit. And if Jesus had any intention of teaching that Christians did not need to keep them literally, we would not have the record of the disciples keeping the Saturday Sabbath immediately after Christ's death on the Cross in Luke 23:54-56. We also would not see Paul being labeled by the elders as a "Keeper of the Law" in Acts 21:24.
"IF a Christian is filled with God's Holy Spirit they will naturally be following all of God's/Jesus Commandments."
I would agree with this, but that just means that the vast majority of professed Christians today are not filled with the Holy Spirit because most Christians do not obey the 10 Commandments.
Jesus says that it is the keeping of the 10 Commandments that is pre-requisite for receiving 'HIM' as the Holy Spirit in John 14:21.
True Christ Followers will be obedient to all of God's 10 Commandments as taught by Jesus in the New Testament."
Well, God's 10 Commandments are identical to Christ's Commandments. Christ didn't change, minimize or abbreviate them in any way. Christ speaks of obeying the Law, the 10 Commandments, just as they are taught by the scribes and Pharisees in Matt. 23:1-3. He says to "do as they say, but not as they do" because the teachers of the Law at that time were all hypocrites. They taught the 10 Commandments, but kept none of them. That passage proves that Jesus taught the physical keeping of the 10 Commandments, not just the essence, or spirit, of them in our hearts, etc.
Jesus stated, as you pointed out, that He kept all of the Father's 10 Commandments physically when He declared it in John 15:10.
We see that 1 John makes clear that we are to live as Jesus lived, obeying what He obeyed, in 1 John 2:6. That does not support the modern popular teaching that we are only to obey them in spirit. And if Jesus had any intention of teaching that Christians did not need to keep them literally, we would not have the record of the disciples keeping the Saturday Sabbath immediately after Christ's death on the Cross in Luke 23:54-56. We also would not see Paul being labeled by the elders as a "Keeper of the Law" in Acts 21:24.
"IF a Christian is filled with God's Holy Spirit they will naturally be following all of God's/Jesus Commandments."
I would agree with this, but that just means that the vast majority of professed Christians today are not filled with the Holy Spirit because most Christians do not obey the 10 Commandments.
Jesus says that it is the keeping of the 10 Commandments that is pre-requisite for receiving 'HIM' as the Holy Spirit in John 14:21.
You stated, they were debating not opposing it, as we see in Acts 21:18-31 there is still division, the Jews were still in the law,
Let's take this from verse 17, I don't believe it was the Brothern debating Paul. It was the elders of the Jews.
Note: I will pause midway in verse 20 to show where they switch from glorifying God for the news Paul brought them concerning the Gentiles to telling Paul about the Jews that believe; and they are all zealous of the law:
Paul was warned in Acts 21:10-13 not to go to Jerusalem because this group sought to bind him.
Now, Luke says Paul went in with us unto James; and all the elders were present. THIS IS THE ELDERS OF THE JEWS! NOT THE APOSTLES, AND IT IS NOT JAMES THAT IS CONTENDING WITH PAUL.
17) And when we were come to Jerusalem, the brethren received us gladly.
18) And the day following Paul went in with us unto James; and all the elders were present.
19) And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry.
20) And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, (PAUSE)
"Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:
(THIS ZEALOUS GROUP IS NOT THE APOSTLES.) It is the Elders that is saying, "Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe."
Continuing with the Elders.
21) And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.
22) What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come.
Ronald many of the Jews at that time practiced the rituals of the Law and tried to add that to the cross as we see in Galatians, but Paul refuted this.
Thank you, brother I will make this short I believe we have come to a point to let it rest. This is something better discussed in person, not on paper things get lost. In Acts 15, it was at least 4 years, after Pentecost when Paul and Barnabas went to Jerusalem because some Gentiles were told they must be circumcised and follow the law.
It is clear they were debating this for a long time it says much disputing before Peter stood up. He said it was a good while ago when God sent the word to the Gentiles. So, this seems quite a few years after Pentecost, and it appears the apostles were still following the law and circumcision.
They were debating not opposing it, as we see in Acts 21:18-31 there is still division, the Jews were still in the law, it says James and the elders were there, these were people who had accepted Jesus, but they were still in the law, (they are all zealous of the law). We also see Peter was an apostle to the circumcision and Paul was an apostle to the Gentiles. When they turned away from Judaism I don't know, in Acts 10:28 they were irate with Peter for his disobedience of the law, and these were apostles.
Our main disagreement is my understanding of Scripture that a person who has accepted Jesus, was baptized, and walking in fellowship with Jesus can intentionally walk away from Jesus and willfully live a life of sin, unless they repent and come back into the light they will perish, will lose the gift of eternal life. For example, the prodigal son Luke 15. Yours is you cannot lose their salvation, it is impossible.
I can give my understanding and you can give yours but not being able to sit down and discuss each verse and flip to others that we cannot do on paper.
Paul suggests that we all have spiritual gifts and serve with them the congregation and God.
The best gift is prophesying. Prophesy is a direct message from God to the church for the "edification, and exhortation, and comfort" of the church. It can be also about future events that are of the interest of the believers as we see in Acts 21:10-11. Prophets can be either men or women as seen in Acts 21:8-9. But women can not be pastors as seen in 1 Cor 14:34-35.
Paul suggests that we all speak in unknown tongues (v5) but preferably prophesying. Because the gift of prophesying is above tongues. Tongues are useful to a believer for their own edification because when speaking in tongues they are filled with God's Spirit which produces His fruit in them. But the rest do not understand what is said, so there is no benefit for the congregation unless there is an interpreter.
Prophesy is for the edification of the whole congregation. So when the church is gathered together to pray to God, and believers are filled with God's Spirit and start speaking in tongues and there isn't an inetrpreter they should keep silent and pray with their spirit. Prophets may say what God puts in their mouth in a proper order, one after the other. Others must judge whether a prophesy is real or not. Everything in the church should serve for the edification of of tbe whole body.
An interpretation of chapter, 1 Corinthians 14 (PT 5).
Verse 26-33. An introduction is needed here.
The ancient church service consisted of 2 parts. Part 1 was when believers were kneeling down praying and singing to and praising God altogether. Part 2 was when they sat on their seats and were hearing the pastor preaching from the Scriptures.
Paul advices christians in Corinth to function their congregation in order. The most important thing is everything in the function of the church should be done for the edification of the congregation. When believers speak in tongues they should do it one after the other. But if there isn't no interpretation then they should keep silent and talk silently in tongues to them and God.
Prophets similarly should prophesy one after the other. It is possible that two of them could have a message from God at the same time. But they should not speak simoultaneously but only after the previous prophet stopped prophesying.
Verse 29, "Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge." Judge what? Judge whether the prophesy is true or not. How is that done? Mainly if the prophesy agrees with the written Word of God. Also other prophets who have the experience of prophesying, they usually can undersand if a prophesy is a real one or not.
Verse 32, "And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.".The Spirit of God doesn't force prophets to speak, they can allow or not allow their mouth to say what God puts in their mouth.
All the above take place in the first part of the church service, during the time of praying. Once the pastor is preaching, only him should talk from thereon.
Verse 33, "For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.". Very clear meaning.
Verses 34-40. Women can not be pastors but can serve the congregation as prophets (see Acts 21:8-9)
You said (Hemorian as well) that the Acts is a transitional book between OT and NT. I wouldn't agree on that.
In my opinion the only transitional period between those 2 economies was the 3 and 1/2 years that Jesus ministered on earth. And I wouldn't use the word transitional. I would prefer to say that Jesus ministry worked as a bridge joining the old economy with the new one.
In the book of Acts we see that Jews who became christians were still following the Old Law. But that was permitted by the apostles only to give the necessary time to Jews to adapt themselves to the New Conenant. Paul himself didn't follow John's and James' (who were the heads in Jerusalem at that time) practise. Paul was crystal clear in his teachings and writtings that the Old covenant had to be abandoned.
Please read what John and James said to Paul when he visited Jerusalem,
Acts 21:20-23, "20And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law: 21And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs. 22What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come. 23Do therefore this that we say to thee..." Pay attention to verse 21.
Paul this time followed their advice and found himself in a big trouble, in jail.
After Jesus' resurrection only the New Testament was valid. The Old died together with Jesus on the cross and the New came into life together with Jesus' ressurection. .
Now about that "rightly dividing the Word of God", a grk person understands that phrase as "rightly learning and teaching the Word of God", it has nothing to do with dividing.
In general; there is a set series of events that are going to consume the time period known as "Jacob's trouble" ( Jeremiah 30:7).
The incense of the prayers of the saints which encompass the initial scene in Revelation 5:8 prior to the seal judgments; and Revelation 8:3-4 (in that case before the Trumpet Judgments) show a sort of collective mass of prayers; either reflecting directly the persecutions on the earth at the time; or answering Millennia old prayers of saints long since forgotten by man; but held by God. (see Psalm 56:8).
Because of this; we see a difference in prophetic utterances such as Acts 21:10; and Acts 11:27-28. Such utterances indicate that the choices made (i.e. Paul heading straight to Jerusalem; preparing for a famine) certainly make these things conditional.
In Revelation it is generally structured indicating great events with associated signs and wonders that are already designed and predicted in detail. However; as with anything else there is latitude apparently for the two prophets to cause things as they wish in regard to droughts; etc. ( Rev. 11:6). Undoubtably some details are not straightforward (such as which part of the world the 1/4 die in the seal judgments). Safe to say it ain't going to be a fun time here on planet earth; that's for sure.
Looking at the Second Coming of Christ; no doubt great deception will occur with multitudes of false prophets at the time of the end. Antichrist Himself will basically act as a substitute for Christ; and will be the only man other than Judas Iscariot to be doomed to perdition. ( John 17:12; 2 Thess. 2:3). God will use him to make rulers agree to submit to his authority; as well as destroying the false "Mystery Babylon" which encompasses all the world's false religions sort of rolled into one. ( Revelation 18:17).
There are suspect individuals that certainly match many characteristics of such an individual. More in next post.
Sorry brother did not see your last post. I know we differ on this, as long as we inspire each other to study both sides we are doing ok. I feel the word antichrist has been used so many times having people looking for the wrong thing. This beast will ascend out of the bottomless pit, Rev. 17:8 we don't know what he will look like, the man of sin.
The word antichrist is not in Revelation, and where we see it in 1 John 2:18,221 John 4:3 and 2 John 1:7 all are describing people or the spirit of antichrist, deceivers not a beast. There has been people from the time Jesus ascended claiming to be the Messiah and will deliver them from Roman oppression up to revolts before 70 AD. There was one in Acts 21:38 and some others and probably some today.
2 Thessalonians 2:4, which says this beast will exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped. Above God, or whatever people all over this world worship, this will be a world event for people of all religions. I agree the deception will be great and he may appear to many as Christ or what or who other people worship. I am sure many will accept him as the Christ.
In Revelation, we have Satan, the beast, the false prophet, and fallen angels on this earth, all working against God, Jesus, and all who have faith in them, it will not be a pleasant time. From the time Satan and his angels are cast down to earth and Satan gives his power, seat, and authority to the beast I only see 3.5 years not 7. And I do not see anyone taken out only the second coming of Jesus. 7 years only comes from Daniel 9 whether that turns out to be true or false. Hope this makes some sense.
The Bible has many texts on the idea of self control; including it being one of the fruits of the Spirit. Much can be said of this and wisdom as well. We have with this concept the dual realities of the Spirit being the only thing capable of producing such actions in the truest sense; as well as maturity in practice of such things in submission to the Spirit.
When we examine ourselves; it is likely that many times we try to anticipate what we are about to face and control the circumstances to make the outcome fit in to our expectations. Preparation is something we should maintain before taking any actions; but we cannot always envision the circumstances with clarity. In other words; there is a need to trust God to give us the words and actions as well as prayers on an as need basis. One example would be when Agabus in Acts 21:10-11. Paul apparently was wise enough to realize that death was very much a risk with such an action; but He was already "sold out" as it were to that reality. As with all the Apostles except for John who apparently they attempted to kill and failed according to tradition death was the end result; Peter also had a prophecy directly from Christ referring to that reality.
Often from my limited experience I have found that I am sort of going with "auto pilot" in new and confusing situations; the Lord gives me the strength and words at the right moment; not before. We need to learn to appreciate and be made aware of the "God" moments as they happen; His ways our not our ways and I have found that there is little thought necessary when the Spirit gives us utterance. This should be the process in which we live our whole lives; whether preparing for martyrdom or living in ordinary work; family and other situations. If anything; we should see opportunities for witnessing; and spreading the Great Commission whenever we are able. This involves our words and actions as well as motives.
Jesus knew what was going to happen and much of what He told the disciples was what was going to happen to them, to prepare them for what He just told them when the temple would be destroyed. Does part of this discourse apply to the future? Yes
Matt. 24:5-13 History and the Bible document that there were several men as false Messiahs, false prophets that deceived many and which convinced many and led them to revolt to liberate Jerusalem from Roman occupation. Josephus tells us that impostors drew great multitudes after them into the wilderness, and he mentions an Egyptian prophet. We see this in Acts 21:36-38.
We have Theudas in Acts 5:36 and Judas of Galilee in Acts 5:37-8 and Simon in Acts 8:9-11, and there was more. For us today many come in the name of Jesus saying, Jesus is Christ, but they deceive and make merchandise of people. We must not ignore the first thing He said after they asked Him "Take heed that no man deceive you."
There were many conflicts between the nations around Jerusalem and Rome was having wars that caused famine. Claudius invaded Britain in 46AD, there was a great famine in Syria. Rome took control over the temple along with the sacred treasury and there was a great famine in Jerusalem.
The Jews were having small scrimmages that led to the revolt in 66 AD. We see in the bible a famine was going on, in Acts 11:27-29 in 1 Corinthians 16:1-3 Where Paul was collecting things for those in Jerusalem because they were starving. There were earthquakes in Rome, Pergamum, Laodicea, and Judea in the 50s and 60s.
We see what the Jews did to Peter and John and the first they killed was Steven and then most of them. and what Paul says about what they did in all the synagogues Acts 26:10-11. But enduring to the end the same shall be saved does not mean their flesh life would be saved.
I'd like to add, because I see your title as "Evangelist" If you didn't know you can use this site for much study in the Scriptures. There is a word, phrase search bar even partial word can be searched such at "prop" for all words regarding Prophecy, Prophets, Prophetess, Prophetic, under "Modify Search" tab. The search bar will show up when you tap on the version KJV Standard or KJV 1611.
For deeper word translation meanings for study there is also Strongs Exhaustive Concordance within the site. Prophetess Hebrew word "nbiy'ah" in Old Testament & greek word "prophetis" in New Testament
Acts 21:9, doesn't give the females the title "Prophetess" but states the "four daughters, virgins, which did prophesy"
No dear Baker, prophesing is not teaching. There are two types of prophets in New Testament.
1. The gift of prophesing ( 1 Cor 12:7-11). A woman can have that gift and prophesy ( Acts 21:8-9). The gifts are given by the Holly Spirit. This gift has nothing to do with teaching, that is why in the next chapter ( 1 Cor 14:34) where Paul keeps talking about gifts, especially about speaking in tongues and prophesing, he forbids women to teach in the church. So prophesing has nothing to do with teaching (some churches have this specific belief).
2. The ministry of prophet ( Ephesians 4:11), which is something different from the gift of prophesing described in Corinthians. In Acts 13:1-3 in the church there are both prophets and teachers, which means they are different ministries. All ministers, Apostles, Pastors, Evangelists, Teachers, Prophets(once more teachers and prophets are separate ministries) are males, we don't see any woman in that position in the Gospels. As written it is Jesus who appoints ministers in the church (not the Holly Spirit who gives the gifts). All ministers can teach in the church, as well. ( Acts 15:32).
I am not wishing to debate either. Thank you for your input.
I read last night in Acts 15:6-11. Peter says that God had chosen him to preach to the Gospel to the Gentiles so that they would believe. He went on to say that God gave the Gentiles the Holy Spirit just as He had done for them in Jerusalem. So, apparently, Peter was preaching the Gospel to Gentiles before he knew Paul.
My point is that it is wise to avoid hard and fast views concerning how the Gospel spread nor when the church began because I think that God is the only One who truly knows what He did in those days, as He builds the church and chosen whom will preach the Gospel and where.
We have the book of Acts an the writings of Paul, Peter, John, James, and Jude to reveal some information about the church in the 1st century A.D. But this is not a running history that includes the work of all the other apostles, nor the others of the 120 who were in the room at Pentecost. if we did, we would know better how things transpired. Since Scripture does not include a full account of the workings of the church at this time, perhaps we can be satisfied that the Word of God concerning the Gospel of Jesus was spread throughout the known world during that century by Jesus' apostles and disciples as well as from Believer to those in their sphere of influence. That is the important matter, in my opinion. When the apostles became apostles or began their work or when the church truly began are somewhat peripheral matters to me. But since there is this discussion on these topics, we can share what the Scriptures say about this to one another and share what we learned from them.
I also love the Word of God, in Acts 1, the former treatise referring to Luke's gospel, "all Jesus began to do and teach". In vs. 2 after Jesus ascended, He gave commandments through the Holy Spirit. At that time, they were still looking for the Messiah to set up the kingdom and free them from Rome, vs. 6 "Lord wilt thou at this time restore the kingdom to Israel".
In vs. 7 and 8, Jesus told them it was not for them to know the times or seasons and after the Holy Spirit came, they would receive power and guidance. They were told they would be witnesses unto the uttermost part of the world, but they were not told when, the Holy Spirit would tell them when and whereas we see throughout the New Testament.
They stayed in Jerusalem, it was not until after Stephen's death by the same council that put Jesus to death, stopped their ears, their rejection of the Messiah was complete. Not until then did the Holy Spirit direct them to preach Jesus to Samaria. It was Philip, not the apostle but the evangelist, one of the 7, Acts 6:5 went into Samaria and was the first to preach Jesus. When the apostles who were still in Jerusalem heard, Peter and John went to see, Acts 8. Acts 9 Paul and Acts 10 Peter's dream.
We see how the Holy Spirit led Peter; Peter even said it was unlawful for a Jew to keep company with one of another nation, but God through the Holy Spirit showed him that God is no respecter of persons. My understanding is at this time the 70-week prophecy given to Daniel that was determined upon Daniel's people and the holy city was fulfilled,
You do not have to reply, I did not intend to create a debate, I just thought you may like to study it. I know many places the 70th week at the end times but what if it has been fulfilled?
Some of The so called legalist/Elders were of the opinion that the myriad of gentiles should not be received as Paul was receiving them,,, they were against it.
They were of the opinion that a gentile could not go past the porch of Solomon, but to remember what God did to Ptere in the 10th chapter? it's been discussed here on the site where God asked Peter (3) times to eat of the unclean animals but they weren't unclean nor were they animals, they were gentiles/common whereby God told him to not call them common or unlcean for when they receive the Jesus they are a child of God.
Verse 20 chapter 21 reads incorrectly, it should read, "You see brother how many myriads there are AMONG the Jews having believed, and all the zealous one for the law are." (it's a mixed crowd)
Verse 21 They have been informed now about you that apostasy you teach from Moses, these among the gentiles all jews telling them not to circumcise them the children, nor in the customs to walk.
(This would be a lie, a spin job, they have been misinformed, no apostasy taught,,,Paul's 3 fold ministry was to the gentiles, not to the jews,,, Paul was teaching to gentiles "only" that they did not have to circumcise, nor walk in Jewish customs)
Sounds hypocritical to me of them/some elders being against the gentiles receiving God, but must walk in their customs.
Hey, my dear, I Won't lecture any of you. But whatever you do, listen to the Holy Ghost and slip Him into your meetings. Then there will always be good meetings.
The words of Galatians are about fruits of the Spirit. Good luck.
My only comment will be to refer to Acts 1:7-8. Jesus told the apostles to be His witnesses in Jerusalem, in Judea (both Jews), in Samaria (non Jews) and to the ends of the earth (Gentiles). So, yes, Jesus did tell them that the Gospel was for the Gentiles, too.
I love the Words of our Lord. He is Truth and His Words are certainly true.
I agree the gospel that the apostles taught was the same as did Paul. What Peter stood up and said in Acts 2 is the same with one difference, they had not yet been told to carry it to the Gentiles. They were still under the command to go only to the lost sheep of Israel, Matt. 10:5-7.
My understanding, you may disagree with but may want to check out, that there was a prophecy that was not fulfilled. The saying to the Jew first and also to the Gentile. The time had not come to cut off the branch. The Church started all Jews/house of Israel.
Many places this prophecy at the end time but my studies show me it has been fulfilled, Jesus during the first 3.5 years and Jesus through His apostles during the last 3.5 years. It is Daniel 9:27, the apostles could not go to the Gentiles until the last 3.5 years of the 70th week of the prophecy was fulfilled, confirming the covenant to Daniel's people, (the house of Israel). I know you may say you don't agree but check it out.
Stephen was killed and when he was killed Acts 7:54-60, in vs 57 they stopped their ears (total rejection of Jesus) and drove out of Jerusalem all the believers in Jesus except the apostles. Saul/Paul was instructed by Jesus to go to the Gentiles, in Acts 9, Peter had his dream, in Acts 10, and the confirming the covenant with the house of Israel was fulfilled.
We see in Acts the transition that the apostles went through, like Acts 15. The gospel was the same, but the apostles had not been told it is for the Gentiles also, it took time to accept Jew and Gentile has been made in Jesus one new man, Eph. 2:15.
Hello Frank, I do not think that the Jewish believers necessarily preached a different Gospel than that of Paul's. The Gospel of Jesus is the same for everyone. He is not "divided". But legalism was evident among some believers, probably both Jewish and Gentile, as some Jewish Christians were legalistic about the Law, but some Gentiles were legalistic about things like: foods sacrificed to idols (Jews would not partake of such foods as Jews); eating of meat or refraining from it altogether, being married or staying celibate. Even today, there are sects of Christians who follow legalistic practices. Each one of us probably have one or more things we refuse to participate in due to it appearing lead one into sin. Paul spoke to all of these things, not advocating antinomianism (all things are o.k. even what God has called sin), but saying that we are to live holy and godly lives and to not cause anyone to stumble due to our liberty in Christ. We are to do what our faith allows us to do and not offend out conscience.
I do think that Paul's Gospel was the same as that of the apostles, for Jesus had taught them what they needed to preach before He ascended into heaven. But He did ask them to wait until the Holy Spirit came upon them to witness to the Gospel. The Holy Spirit did not give them the Gospel message, Jesus did. But the Holy Spirit gave them power to do signs and miracles, courage and boldness to preach the Gospel and face martyrdom, and consolation and assurance of them being in Christ and secure in Him.
The ONE TRUE Gospel was preached for a few years before Paul was even converted. And, although Paul was called to primarily take the Gospel into the Gentile world, he did preach to Jews and the other other apostles and disciples preached also to Gentiles (Phillip, Peter as two examples from Acts).
I think that as believers we truly need to believe what Paul said as there no longer being Jew nor Gentile in Christ, yea, we are all one people in Him.
Frank Bush. Something to keep in mind Paul spent 3 years in Arabia because
his own head was blown away by what happened. He was in the desert receiving
Revealed knowledge of what was accomplished and completed and given with
the new birth. Think about this he's known for murdering any followers of Christ
Then shows up a changed man walking via the spirit and showing signs miracles and wonders. When he witnessed the hypocrisy in action of the Judean believers
That was a serious confrontation because who are you Paul to show or teach or
Tell us how to walk. Paul's gospel was to establish what Christ called him to do,
And he was always fighting legalistic division between the law works and grace
Fulfilling by the spirit walking in agapeo or perfect love. Against such there is no
Law hence the law is fulfilled. But that is only accomplished by walking in the
Spirit. There were many still zealous for the law to the point of resisting the truth
Of Christ. This is spoken of many times throughout the church Epistles and
I would be interested in you opinion concerning verses 17-25.This was well after the Jerusalem council Acts 15 and Galations 2 when the Jewish Council gave Paul and Barnabas their blessing to continue to preach the Gospel of Grace to the Gentiles (with some Jewish exceptions.) With this uproar while Paul was explaining to James how his Gospel of Grace was succeeding in Gentiles being saved, it seems that many Jews were not convinced that he was preaching their Gospel of believing and keeping the Law of Moses.
Does Satan have the authority to take away life? I believe that only God gives & takes away life. In Satan's domain (i.e. outside the Church to which a sinning believer might be sent), pain & destruction may well be the physical demise of the believer, to the end that his "spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus".
Re: "untimely death". I mean that a life was shortened because of God's action against sin. We see this in many instances in the OT & NT, & especially that we have already mentioned Ananias & Sapphira ( Acts 5); 1 Corinthians 11:27-30; Acts 12:21-23.
Re: Hebrews 10:26,27 & we can add, Hebrews 6:4-6 as well; these verses have been discussed previously by bro Jesse & myself & too long to deal with here.
Re: Acts 21:20. All I can see from this limited detail, is that the Church (the Jewish component), hadn't properly dealt with the separation of the Law & the liberty they ought to have enjoyed in Christ. Much like today, when those coming out of other religions or cults, might take a long time to understand & resolve matters that have been indoctrinated deep into their minds. The fact that the Jerusalem council seemed to understand & accept this matter didn't warrant them to address it. However, Paul always did & was taken to task for doing so.
I hope I've addressed the points you raised, brother. I know we will see these things differently, but I hope you can also see how I understand it: the Lord knows His children & they have been brought into His family by His indwelling Spirit. Does God make an error in doing so? Or, are His children secure in Him & when they err, His correction done in love, will always bring us back into fellowship. If it doesn't do so, then, speaking personally, I would have to question my salvation, that it was merely a mental or emotional assent given, without a true change in heart & spirit. And that's the only way I can understand some of these difficult, apparently contentious, Scriptures. Every blessing.
Well it really gets long, I hope I don't tire you.
Please read Ezekiel 18:24. "But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die." Since one's righteousness will not be mentioned, and he will die in his sin, what should I therefore conclude? That he is going to hell, isn't it so?
Hebrews 10:26-27 "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries."
In the above Paul doesn't talk about unbelievers, for those salvation is always available even if they once rejected it. Paul talks about people who were once in faith but later lost their faith and believed that Jesus' sacrifice and Blood were nothing really.
So brother my belief is that if ones turns away from God, and despite God's efforts to make him repent, he dies in his sin then he will not enter Heaven but hell.
Now I want to ask you a question. We agree that if somebody seeks salvation not only through Jesus' sacrifice, but through works, then he is not granted salvation. So what do you make of those Jews that believed to Jesus but still obeyed the Law of Moses. James said to Paul in Acts 21:20 "And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:". Those thousands of Jews were saved, weren't they? But how come since they were zealous of the law?
I don't mean to be offensive even if sometimes it seems so. If we don't agree it is OK, we actually know what we both believe but we try to get to a possible agreement
Hello John. We are not specifically told where James was when he wrote this epistle, but we do know that he was a recognized leader in the Jerusalem Church ( Acts 12:17; Acts 15:13; Acts 21:18 are verses alluding to James' position there). So it can be assumed, without certainty of course, that James penned this letter from Jerusalem & directed his message to the "twelve tribes scattered abroad" ( James 1:1), since he was already in Jerusalem.
OK, since there are different opinions about this topic let's see what the scripture says about it.
Ephesians 4:11
"And he gave some, apostles; and some, PROPHETS; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and TEACHERS;"
So God gave prophets to the church. There is the idea that these prophets were just teachers. Are they? No, because God gave teachers as well, so prophets must be something different.
Acts 21:8-9
"And the next day we that were of Paul's company departed, and came unto Caesarea: and we entered into the house of Philip the evangelist, which was one of the seven; and abode with him.
And the same man had four daughters, virgins, which did PROPHESY."
Where these virgin daughters teachers? Definitely not, women were not allowed to teach in ancient church. They were virgins, that is little girls. So what were they doing? We'll see later.
Acts 21:10-11
"And as we tarried there many days, there came down from Judaea a certain PROPHET, named Agabus.
And when he was come unto us, he took Paul's girdle, and bound his own hands and feet, and said, Thus saith the Holy Ghost, So shall the Jews at Jerusalem bind the man that owneth this girdle, and shall deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles"
Is this a foretelling? It obviously is.
Acts 19: 1-7
It is too long to write it, but read carefully verse 6:"And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and PROPHESIED." Prophesied? If it means teaching, then to whom they were teaching? To Paul? To theselves?
Please study 1 Corinthians 14. Pay attention to v 24-25
"But if all PROPHESY, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:
And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth" Does it seem to you that prophesying here means teaching? Obviously not.
So must there be prophets/foretellers in a church?
Just a few things, I am sorry you feel you have been lied to, there are different interpretations out there. If we study Matt. 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 together it helps.
I have found when studying the Bible, we should not start with a preconceived idea, it is easy to see Scriptures that fit a picture we have painted in our mind rather than letting the Scriptures and the Holy Spirit reveal the true meaning.
First, Jesus's death and resurrection were hidden from them, Luke 18:31-34. Even after he was crucified, they were distraught and did not understand the fact that he was killed. John 16:16-20 and we have Luke 24:4-6. Not knowing Jesus was going to die would they be asking Jesus about His second coming?
Is all of Matthew 24 about the end time, many combined it with other prophecies to create a picture of the end time. Some of it is obviously about Jesus's second coming but much of it was to prepare them for what they were to endure up to the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple. False prophets we see there were many before 70 AD, Acts 21:36-38 Acts 8:9 and others. If we look at history there were wars, earthquakes, and famine, Acts 7:11 and Acts 11:28.
Many put Matt. 24:15 and Mark 13:14 at the end time with an antichrist, should we not consider what Luke wrote about the same thing, Luke 21:20 that history has recorded?
One other thing why would Jesus say to pray their flee would not be on a Sabbath day? Today would not be a problem with the transportation we have. Back then the gates of Jerusalem would be locked and would be hard to get out and it would take days to get clear, with a pace of 2.5 mph.
I am with you, we sleep in the grave until resurrection the first of those who are chosen and faithful, Rev. 17:14 at Jesus's second coming and the second, the rest of the dead at the white throne judgment/the sheep and the goats and those whose names are not in the book of life is cast into the lake of fire, Rev. 20:15.
God bless,
RLW
SolaScrip,
True Christ Followers will be obedient to all of God's 10 Commandments as taught by Jesus in the New Testament."
Well, God's 10 Commandments are identical to Christ's Commandments. Christ didn't change, minimize or abbreviate them in any way. Christ is the Creator of all things and He created the Commandments - there would be no reason for Him to change or rescind any of them.
Christ speaks of obeying the Law, the 10 Commandments, just as they are taught by the scribes and Pharisees in Matt. 23:1-3. He says to "do as they say, but not as they do" because the teachers of the Law at that time were all hypocrites. They taught the 10 Commandments, but kept none of them. That passage proves that Jesus taught the literal keeping of the 10 Commandments, not just the essence, or spirit, of them in our hearts, etc.
Jesus stated, as you pointed out, that He kept all of the Father's 10 Commandments physically when He declared it in John 15:10.
We see that 1 John makes clear that we are to live as Jesus lived, obeying what He obeyed, in 1 John 2:6. That does not support the modern popular teaching that we are only to obey them in spirit. And if Jesus had any intention of teaching that Christians did not need to keep them literally, we would not have the record of the disciples keeping the Saturday Sabbath immediately after Christ's death on the Cross in Luke 23:54-56. We also would not see Paul being labeled by the elders as a "Keeper of the Law" in Acts 21:24.
"IF a Christian is filled with God's Holy Spirit they will naturally be following all of God's/Jesus Commandments."
I would agree with this, but that just means that the vast majority of professed Christians today are not filled with the Holy Spirit because most Christians do not obey the 10 Commandments.
Jesus says that it is the keeping of the 10 Commandments that is pre-requisite for receiving 'HIM' as the Holy Spirit in John 14:21.
SolaScrip,
True Christ Followers will be obedient to all of God's 10 Commandments as taught by Jesus in the New Testament."
Well, God's 10 Commandments are identical to Christ's Commandments. Christ didn't change, minimize or abbreviate them in any way. Christ speaks of obeying the Law, the 10 Commandments, just as they are taught by the scribes and Pharisees in Matt. 23:1-3. He says to "do as they say, but not as they do" because the teachers of the Law at that time were all hypocrites. They taught the 10 Commandments, but kept none of them. That passage proves that Jesus taught the physical keeping of the 10 Commandments, not just the essence, or spirit, of them in our hearts, etc.
Jesus stated, as you pointed out, that He kept all of the Father's 10 Commandments physically when He declared it in John 15:10.
We see that 1 John makes clear that we are to live as Jesus lived, obeying what He obeyed, in 1 John 2:6. That does not support the modern popular teaching that we are only to obey them in spirit. And if Jesus had any intention of teaching that Christians did not need to keep them literally, we would not have the record of the disciples keeping the Saturday Sabbath immediately after Christ's death on the Cross in Luke 23:54-56. We also would not see Paul being labeled by the elders as a "Keeper of the Law" in Acts 21:24.
"IF a Christian is filled with God's Holy Spirit they will naturally be following all of God's/Jesus Commandments."
I would agree with this, but that just means that the vast majority of professed Christians today are not filled with the Holy Spirit because most Christians do not obey the 10 Commandments.
Jesus says that it is the keeping of the 10 Commandments that is pre-requisite for receiving 'HIM' as the Holy Spirit in John 14:21.
Part 2. "Last reply"
Acts 21:18-31.
You stated, they were debating not opposing it, as we see in Acts 21:18-31 there is still division, the Jews were still in the law,
Let's take this from verse 17, I don't believe it was the Brothern debating Paul. It was the elders of the Jews.
Note: I will pause midway in verse 20 to show where they switch from glorifying God for the news Paul brought them concerning the Gentiles to telling Paul about the Jews that believe; and they are all zealous of the law:
Paul was warned in Acts 21:10-13 not to go to Jerusalem because this group sought to bind him.
Now, Luke says Paul went in with us unto James; and all the elders were present. THIS IS THE ELDERS OF THE JEWS! NOT THE APOSTLES, AND IT IS NOT JAMES THAT IS CONTENDING WITH PAUL.
17) And when we were come to Jerusalem, the brethren received us gladly.
18) And the day following Paul went in with us unto James; and all the elders were present.
19) And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry.
20) And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, (PAUSE)
"Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:
(THIS ZEALOUS GROUP IS NOT THE APOSTLES.) It is the Elders that is saying, "Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe."
Continuing with the Elders.
21) And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.
22) What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come.
Ronald many of the Jews at that time practiced the rituals of the Law and tried to add that to the cross as we see in Galatians, but Paul refuted this.
Thanks for your time and have a good week Ronald.
God bless.
Thank you, brother I will make this short I believe we have come to a point to let it rest. This is something better discussed in person, not on paper things get lost. In Acts 15, it was at least 4 years, after Pentecost when Paul and Barnabas went to Jerusalem because some Gentiles were told they must be circumcised and follow the law.
It is clear they were debating this for a long time it says much disputing before Peter stood up. He said it was a good while ago when God sent the word to the Gentiles. So, this seems quite a few years after Pentecost, and it appears the apostles were still following the law and circumcision.
They were debating not opposing it, as we see in Acts 21:18-31 there is still division, the Jews were still in the law, it says James and the elders were there, these were people who had accepted Jesus, but they were still in the law, (they are all zealous of the law). We also see Peter was an apostle to the circumcision and Paul was an apostle to the Gentiles. When they turned away from Judaism I don't know, in Acts 10:28 they were irate with Peter for his disobedience of the law, and these were apostles.
Our main disagreement is my understanding of Scripture that a person who has accepted Jesus, was baptized, and walking in fellowship with Jesus can intentionally walk away from Jesus and willfully live a life of sin, unless they repent and come back into the light they will perish, will lose the gift of eternal life. For example, the prodigal son Luke 15. Yours is you cannot lose their salvation, it is impossible.
I can give my understanding and you can give yours but not being able to sit down and discuss each verse and flip to others that we cannot do on paper.
Have a wonderful evening and a great week.
God bless,
RLW
Paul suggests that we all have spiritual gifts and serve with them the congregation and God.
The best gift is prophesying. Prophesy is a direct message from God to the church for the "edification, and exhortation, and comfort" of the church. It can be also about future events that are of the interest of the believers as we see in Acts 21:10-11. Prophets can be either men or women as seen in Acts 21:8-9. But women can not be pastors as seen in 1 Cor 14:34-35.
Paul suggests that we all speak in unknown tongues (v5) but preferably prophesying. Because the gift of prophesying is above tongues. Tongues are useful to a believer for their own edification because when speaking in tongues they are filled with God's Spirit which produces His fruit in them. But the rest do not understand what is said, so there is no benefit for the congregation unless there is an interpreter.
Prophesy is for the edification of the whole congregation. So when the church is gathered together to pray to God, and believers are filled with God's Spirit and start speaking in tongues and there isn't an inetrpreter they should keep silent and pray with their spirit. Prophets may say what God puts in their mouth in a proper order, one after the other. Others must judge whether a prophesy is real or not. Everything in the church should serve for the edification of of tbe whole body.
God Bless You All.
Verse 26-33. An introduction is needed here.
The ancient church service consisted of 2 parts. Part 1 was when believers were kneeling down praying and singing to and praising God altogether. Part 2 was when they sat on their seats and were hearing the pastor preaching from the Scriptures.
Paul advices christians in Corinth to function their congregation in order. The most important thing is everything in the function of the church should be done for the edification of the congregation. When believers speak in tongues they should do it one after the other. But if there isn't no interpretation then they should keep silent and talk silently in tongues to them and God.
Prophets similarly should prophesy one after the other. It is possible that two of them could have a message from God at the same time. But they should not speak simoultaneously but only after the previous prophet stopped prophesying.
Verse 29, "Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge." Judge what? Judge whether the prophesy is true or not. How is that done? Mainly if the prophesy agrees with the written Word of God. Also other prophets who have the experience of prophesying, they usually can undersand if a prophesy is a real one or not.
Verse 32, "And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.".The Spirit of God doesn't force prophets to speak, they can allow or not allow their mouth to say what God puts in their mouth.
All the above take place in the first part of the church service, during the time of praying. Once the pastor is preaching, only him should talk from thereon.
Verse 33, "For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.". Very clear meaning.
Verses 34-40. Women can not be pastors but can serve the congregation as prophets (see Acts 21:8-9)
You said (Hemorian as well) that the Acts is a transitional book between OT and NT. I wouldn't agree on that.
In my opinion the only transitional period between those 2 economies was the 3 and 1/2 years that Jesus ministered on earth. And I wouldn't use the word transitional. I would prefer to say that Jesus ministry worked as a bridge joining the old economy with the new one.
In the book of Acts we see that Jews who became christians were still following the Old Law. But that was permitted by the apostles only to give the necessary time to Jews to adapt themselves to the New Conenant. Paul himself didn't follow John's and James' (who were the heads in Jerusalem at that time) practise. Paul was crystal clear in his teachings and writtings that the Old covenant had to be abandoned.
Please read what John and James said to Paul when he visited Jerusalem,
Acts 21:20-23, "20And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law: 21And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs. 22What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come. 23Do therefore this that we say to thee..." Pay attention to verse 21.
Paul this time followed their advice and found himself in a big trouble, in jail.
After Jesus' resurrection only the New Testament was valid. The Old died together with Jesus on the cross and the New came into life together with Jesus' ressurection. .
Now about that "rightly dividing the Word of God", a grk person understands that phrase as "rightly learning and teaching the Word of God", it has nothing to do with dividing.
GBU
In general; there is a set series of events that are going to consume the time period known as "Jacob's trouble" ( Jeremiah 30:7).
The incense of the prayers of the saints which encompass the initial scene in Revelation 5:8 prior to the seal judgments; and Revelation 8:3-4 (in that case before the Trumpet Judgments) show a sort of collective mass of prayers; either reflecting directly the persecutions on the earth at the time; or answering Millennia old prayers of saints long since forgotten by man; but held by God. (see Psalm 56:8).
Because of this; we see a difference in prophetic utterances such as Acts 21:10; and Acts 11:27-28. Such utterances indicate that the choices made (i.e. Paul heading straight to Jerusalem; preparing for a famine) certainly make these things conditional.
In Revelation it is generally structured indicating great events with associated signs and wonders that are already designed and predicted in detail. However; as with anything else there is latitude apparently for the two prophets to cause things as they wish in regard to droughts; etc. ( Rev. 11:6). Undoubtably some details are not straightforward (such as which part of the world the 1/4 die in the seal judgments). Safe to say it ain't going to be a fun time here on planet earth; that's for sure.
Looking at the Second Coming of Christ; no doubt great deception will occur with multitudes of false prophets at the time of the end. Antichrist Himself will basically act as a substitute for Christ; and will be the only man other than Judas Iscariot to be doomed to perdition. ( John 17:12; 2 Thess. 2:3). God will use him to make rulers agree to submit to his authority; as well as destroying the false "Mystery Babylon" which encompasses all the world's false religions sort of rolled into one. ( Revelation 18:17).
There are suspect individuals that certainly match many characteristics of such an individual. More in next post.
Sorry brother did not see your last post. I know we differ on this, as long as we inspire each other to study both sides we are doing ok. I feel the word antichrist has been used so many times having people looking for the wrong thing. This beast will ascend out of the bottomless pit, Rev. 17:8 we don't know what he will look like, the man of sin.
The word antichrist is not in Revelation, and where we see it in 1 John 2:18,22 1 John 4:3 and 2 John 1:7 all are describing people or the spirit of antichrist, deceivers not a beast. There has been people from the time Jesus ascended claiming to be the Messiah and will deliver them from Roman oppression up to revolts before 70 AD. There was one in Acts 21:38 and some others and probably some today.
2 Thessalonians 2:4, which says this beast will exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped. Above God, or whatever people all over this world worship, this will be a world event for people of all religions. I agree the deception will be great and he may appear to many as Christ or what or who other people worship. I am sure many will accept him as the Christ.
In Revelation, we have Satan, the beast, the false prophet, and fallen angels on this earth, all working against God, Jesus, and all who have faith in them, it will not be a pleasant time. From the time Satan and his angels are cast down to earth and Satan gives his power, seat, and authority to the beast I only see 3.5 years not 7. And I do not see anyone taken out only the second coming of Jesus. 7 years only comes from Daniel 9 whether that turns out to be true or false. Hope this makes some sense.
God bless
RLW
The Bible has many texts on the idea of self control; including it being one of the fruits of the Spirit. Much can be said of this and wisdom as well. We have with this concept the dual realities of the Spirit being the only thing capable of producing such actions in the truest sense; as well as maturity in practice of such things in submission to the Spirit.
When we examine ourselves; it is likely that many times we try to anticipate what we are about to face and control the circumstances to make the outcome fit in to our expectations. Preparation is something we should maintain before taking any actions; but we cannot always envision the circumstances with clarity. In other words; there is a need to trust God to give us the words and actions as well as prayers on an as need basis. One example would be when Agabus in Acts 21:10-11. Paul apparently was wise enough to realize that death was very much a risk with such an action; but He was already "sold out" as it were to that reality. As with all the Apostles except for John who apparently they attempted to kill and failed according to tradition death was the end result; Peter also had a prophecy directly from Christ referring to that reality.
Often from my limited experience I have found that I am sort of going with "auto pilot" in new and confusing situations; the Lord gives me the strength and words at the right moment; not before. We need to learn to appreciate and be made aware of the "God" moments as they happen; His ways our not our ways and I have found that there is little thought necessary when the Spirit gives us utterance. This should be the process in which we live our whole lives; whether preparing for martyrdom or living in ordinary work; family and other situations. If anything; we should see opportunities for witnessing; and spreading the Great Commission whenever we are able. This involves our words and actions as well as motives.
On part 1
Jesus knew what was going to happen and much of what He told the disciples was what was going to happen to them, to prepare them for what He just told them when the temple would be destroyed. Does part of this discourse apply to the future? Yes
Matt. 24:5-13 History and the Bible document that there were several men as false Messiahs, false prophets that deceived many and which convinced many and led them to revolt to liberate Jerusalem from Roman occupation. Josephus tells us that impostors drew great multitudes after them into the wilderness, and he mentions an Egyptian prophet. We see this in Acts 21:36-38.
We have Theudas in Acts 5:36 and Judas of Galilee in Acts 5:37-8 and Simon in Acts 8:9-11, and there was more. For us today many come in the name of Jesus saying, Jesus is Christ, but they deceive and make merchandise of people. We must not ignore the first thing He said after they asked Him "Take heed that no man deceive you."
There were many conflicts between the nations around Jerusalem and Rome was having wars that caused famine. Claudius invaded Britain in 46AD, there was a great famine in Syria. Rome took control over the temple along with the sacred treasury and there was a great famine in Jerusalem.
The Jews were having small scrimmages that led to the revolt in 66 AD. We see in the bible a famine was going on, in Acts 11:27-29 in 1 Corinthians 16:1-3 Where Paul was collecting things for those in Jerusalem because they were starving. There were earthquakes in Rome, Pergamum, Laodicea, and Judea in the 50s and 60s.
We see what the Jews did to Peter and John and the first they killed was Steven and then most of them. and what Paul says about what they did in all the synagogues Acts 26:10-11. But enduring to the end the same shall be saved does not mean their flesh life would be saved.
Will cover more, hope I am making sense.
God bless,
RLW
For deeper word translation meanings for study there is also Strongs Exhaustive Concordance within the site. Prophetess Hebrew word "nbiy'ah" in Old Testament & greek word "prophetis" in New Testament
Acts 21:9, doesn't give the females the title "Prophetess" but states the "four daughters, virgins, which did prophesy"
Hopefully this is helpful
1. The gift of prophesing ( 1 Cor 12:7-11). A woman can have that gift and prophesy ( Acts 21:8-9). The gifts are given by the Holly Spirit. This gift has nothing to do with teaching, that is why in the next chapter ( 1 Cor 14:34) where Paul keeps talking about gifts, especially about speaking in tongues and prophesing, he forbids women to teach in the church. So prophesing has nothing to do with teaching (some churches have this specific belief).
2. The ministry of prophet ( Ephesians 4:11), which is something different from the gift of prophesing described in Corinthians. In Acts 13:1-3 in the church there are both prophets and teachers, which means they are different ministries. All ministers, Apostles, Pastors, Evangelists, Teachers, Prophets(once more teachers and prophets are separate ministries) are males, we don't see any woman in that position in the Gospels. As written it is Jesus who appoints ministers in the church (not the Holly Spirit who gives the gifts). All ministers can teach in the church, as well. ( Acts 15:32).
GBU
Deuteronomy 13:1-5,
Acts 21:10, yes Acts 2:18, Joel 2:27,28,29
Hopefully these are helpful
I am not wishing to debate either. Thank you for your input.
I read last night in Acts 15:6-11. Peter says that God had chosen him to preach to the Gospel to the Gentiles so that they would believe. He went on to say that God gave the Gentiles the Holy Spirit just as He had done for them in Jerusalem. So, apparently, Peter was preaching the Gospel to Gentiles before he knew Paul.
My point is that it is wise to avoid hard and fast views concerning how the Gospel spread nor when the church began because I think that God is the only One who truly knows what He did in those days, as He builds the church and chosen whom will preach the Gospel and where.
We have the book of Acts an the writings of Paul, Peter, John, James, and Jude to reveal some information about the church in the 1st century A.D. But this is not a running history that includes the work of all the other apostles, nor the others of the 120 who were in the room at Pentecost. if we did, we would know better how things transpired. Since Scripture does not include a full account of the workings of the church at this time, perhaps we can be satisfied that the Word of God concerning the Gospel of Jesus was spread throughout the known world during that century by Jesus' apostles and disciples as well as from Believer to those in their sphere of influence. That is the important matter, in my opinion. When the apostles became apostles or began their work or when the church truly began are somewhat peripheral matters to me. But since there is this discussion on these topics, we can share what the Scriptures say about this to one another and share what we learned from them.
I appreciate your instruction to me. It helps me.
I also love the Word of God, in Acts 1, the former treatise referring to Luke's gospel, "all Jesus began to do and teach". In vs. 2 after Jesus ascended, He gave commandments through the Holy Spirit. At that time, they were still looking for the Messiah to set up the kingdom and free them from Rome, vs. 6 "Lord wilt thou at this time restore the kingdom to Israel".
In vs. 7 and 8, Jesus told them it was not for them to know the times or seasons and after the Holy Spirit came, they would receive power and guidance. They were told they would be witnesses unto the uttermost part of the world, but they were not told when, the Holy Spirit would tell them when and whereas we see throughout the New Testament.
They stayed in Jerusalem, it was not until after Stephen's death by the same council that put Jesus to death, stopped their ears, their rejection of the Messiah was complete. Not until then did the Holy Spirit direct them to preach Jesus to Samaria. It was Philip, not the apostle but the evangelist, one of the 7, Acts 6:5 went into Samaria and was the first to preach Jesus. When the apostles who were still in Jerusalem heard, Peter and John went to see, Acts 8. Acts 9 Paul and Acts 10 Peter's dream.
We see how the Holy Spirit led Peter; Peter even said it was unlawful for a Jew to keep company with one of another nation, but God through the Holy Spirit showed him that God is no respecter of persons. My understanding is at this time the 70-week prophecy given to Daniel that was determined upon Daniel's people and the holy city was fulfilled,
You do not have to reply, I did not intend to create a debate, I just thought you may like to study it. I know many places the 70th week at the end times but what if it has been fulfilled?
God bless,
RLW
They were of the opinion that a gentile could not go past the porch of Solomon, but to remember what God did to Ptere in the 10th chapter? it's been discussed here on the site where God asked Peter (3) times to eat of the unclean animals but they weren't unclean nor were they animals, they were gentiles/common whereby God told him to not call them common or unlcean for when they receive the Jesus they are a child of God.
Verse 20 chapter 21 reads incorrectly, it should read, "You see brother how many myriads there are AMONG the Jews having believed, and all the zealous one for the law are." (it's a mixed crowd)
Verse 21 They have been informed now about you that apostasy you teach from Moses, these among the gentiles all jews telling them not to circumcise them the children, nor in the customs to walk.
(This would be a lie, a spin job, they have been misinformed, no apostasy taught,,,Paul's 3 fold ministry was to the gentiles, not to the jews,,, Paul was teaching to gentiles "only" that they did not have to circumcise, nor walk in Jewish customs)
Sounds hypocritical to me of them/some elders being against the gentiles receiving God, but must walk in their customs.
The words of Galatians are about fruits of the Spirit. Good luck.
Jesus loves u all and i in Christ.
Acts 21:37-40
My only comment will be to refer to Acts 1:7-8. Jesus told the apostles to be His witnesses in Jerusalem, in Judea (both Jews), in Samaria (non Jews) and to the ends of the earth (Gentiles). So, yes, Jesus did tell them that the Gospel was for the Gentiles, too.
I love the Words of our Lord. He is Truth and His Words are certainly true.
I agree the gospel that the apostles taught was the same as did Paul. What Peter stood up and said in Acts 2 is the same with one difference, they had not yet been told to carry it to the Gentiles. They were still under the command to go only to the lost sheep of Israel, Matt. 10:5-7.
My understanding, you may disagree with but may want to check out, that there was a prophecy that was not fulfilled. The saying to the Jew first and also to the Gentile. The time had not come to cut off the branch. The Church started all Jews/house of Israel.
Many places this prophecy at the end time but my studies show me it has been fulfilled, Jesus during the first 3.5 years and Jesus through His apostles during the last 3.5 years. It is Daniel 9:27, the apostles could not go to the Gentiles until the last 3.5 years of the 70th week of the prophecy was fulfilled, confirming the covenant to Daniel's people, (the house of Israel). I know you may say you don't agree but check it out.
Stephen was killed and when he was killed Acts 7:54-60, in vs 57 they stopped their ears (total rejection of Jesus) and drove out of Jerusalem all the believers in Jesus except the apostles. Saul/Paul was instructed by Jesus to go to the Gentiles, in Acts 9, Peter had his dream, in Acts 10, and the confirming the covenant with the house of Israel was fulfilled.
We see in Acts the transition that the apostles went through, like Acts 15. The gospel was the same, but the apostles had not been told it is for the Gentiles also, it took time to accept Jew and Gentile has been made in Jesus one new man, Eph. 2:15.
I hope this makes sense, love you.
God bless,
RLW
I do think that Paul's Gospel was the same as that of the apostles, for Jesus had taught them what they needed to preach before He ascended into heaven. But He did ask them to wait until the Holy Spirit came upon them to witness to the Gospel. The Holy Spirit did not give them the Gospel message, Jesus did. But the Holy Spirit gave them power to do signs and miracles, courage and boldness to preach the Gospel and face martyrdom, and consolation and assurance of them being in Christ and secure in Him.
The ONE TRUE Gospel was preached for a few years before Paul was even converted. And, although Paul was called to primarily take the Gospel into the Gentile world, he did preach to Jews and the other other apostles and disciples preached also to Gentiles (Phillip, Peter as two examples from Acts).
I think that as believers we truly need to believe what Paul said as there no longer being Jew nor Gentile in Christ, yea, we are all one people in Him.
his own head was blown away by what happened. He was in the desert receiving
Revealed knowledge of what was accomplished and completed and given with
the new birth. Think about this he's known for murdering any followers of Christ
Then shows up a changed man walking via the spirit and showing signs miracles and wonders. When he witnessed the hypocrisy in action of the Judean believers
That was a serious confrontation because who are you Paul to show or teach or
Tell us how to walk. Paul's gospel was to establish what Christ called him to do,
And he was always fighting legalistic division between the law works and grace
Fulfilling by the spirit walking in agapeo or perfect love. Against such there is no
Law hence the law is fulfilled. But that is only accomplished by walking in the
Spirit. There were many still zealous for the law to the point of resisting the truth
Of Christ. This is spoken of many times throughout the church Epistles and
James and Peter and Hebrews.
Does Satan have the authority to take away life? I believe that only God gives & takes away life. In Satan's domain (i.e. outside the Church to which a sinning believer might be sent), pain & destruction may well be the physical demise of the believer, to the end that his "spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus".
Re: "untimely death". I mean that a life was shortened because of God's action against sin. We see this in many instances in the OT & NT, & especially that we have already mentioned Ananias & Sapphira ( Acts 5); 1 Corinthians 11:27-30; Acts 12:21-23.
Re: Hebrews 10:26,27 & we can add, Hebrews 6:4-6 as well; these verses have been discussed previously by bro Jesse & myself & too long to deal with here.
Re: Acts 21:20. All I can see from this limited detail, is that the Church (the Jewish component), hadn't properly dealt with the separation of the Law & the liberty they ought to have enjoyed in Christ. Much like today, when those coming out of other religions or cults, might take a long time to understand & resolve matters that have been indoctrinated deep into their minds. The fact that the Jerusalem council seemed to understand & accept this matter didn't warrant them to address it. However, Paul always did & was taken to task for doing so.
I hope I've addressed the points you raised, brother. I know we will see these things differently, but I hope you can also see how I understand it: the Lord knows His children & they have been brought into His family by His indwelling Spirit. Does God make an error in doing so? Or, are His children secure in Him & when they err, His correction done in love, will always bring us back into fellowship. If it doesn't do so, then, speaking personally, I would have to question my salvation, that it was merely a mental or emotional assent given, without a true change in heart & spirit. And that's the only way I can understand some of these difficult, apparently contentious, Scriptures. Every blessing.
Chris
Well it really gets long, I hope I don't tire you.
Please read Ezekiel 18:24. "But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die." Since one's righteousness will not be mentioned, and he will die in his sin, what should I therefore conclude? That he is going to hell, isn't it so?
Hebrews 10:26-27 "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries."
In the above Paul doesn't talk about unbelievers, for those salvation is always available even if they once rejected it. Paul talks about people who were once in faith but later lost their faith and believed that Jesus' sacrifice and Blood were nothing really.
So brother my belief is that if ones turns away from God, and despite God's efforts to make him repent, he dies in his sin then he will not enter Heaven but hell.
Now I want to ask you a question. We agree that if somebody seeks salvation not only through Jesus' sacrifice, but through works, then he is not granted salvation. So what do you make of those Jews that believed to Jesus but still obeyed the Law of Moses. James said to Paul in Acts 21:20 "And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:". Those thousands of Jews were saved, weren't they? But how come since they were zealous of the law?
I don't mean to be offensive even if sometimes it seems so. If we don't agree it is OK, we actually know what we both believe but we try to get to a possible agreement
God Blessings
Romans 12:6,
2Peter 1:16-21,
1Timothy 4:14,
Revelation 1:3,
Gifting working within the Body: 1Corinthians 12, 1Corinthians 13, direction concerning in Church: 1Corinthians 14:29-40,
Prophets yet to come: Revelation 11:3-19, false prophet yet to come: Revelation 16:12-15, Revelation 19:20, Revelation 20:10,
Revelation 19:10,
Revelation 22,
John the Baptist referred to as Prophet: Luke 1:76, Luke 3:4, Matthew 13:57, Mark 6:4, Luke 4:24, Luke 7:26,28, Luke 20:3-20, John 1:19-37,
Acts 3:22-26, Acts 7:35-60, Titus 1:12,
Matthew 10:41,
Jesus talking about Prophets in HIS day, referred to himself also: Matthew 21:26, Matthew 11:9, Mark 11:32, John 4:4,
Luke 13:33, Luke 24,
Paul & others acknowledged prophecy, Prophets, even Women that did Prophecy: Acts 21:8-14,
Hope these are helpful
OK, since there are different opinions about this topic let's see what the scripture says about it.
Ephesians 4:11
"And he gave some, apostles; and some, PROPHETS; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and TEACHERS;"
So God gave prophets to the church. There is the idea that these prophets were just teachers. Are they? No, because God gave teachers as well, so prophets must be something different.
Acts 21:8-9
"And the next day we that were of Paul's company departed, and came unto Caesarea: and we entered into the house of Philip the evangelist, which was one of the seven; and abode with him.
And the same man had four daughters, virgins, which did PROPHESY."
Where these virgin daughters teachers? Definitely not, women were not allowed to teach in ancient church. They were virgins, that is little girls. So what were they doing? We'll see later.
Acts 21:10-11
"And as we tarried there many days, there came down from Judaea a certain PROPHET, named Agabus.
And when he was come unto us, he took Paul's girdle, and bound his own hands and feet, and said, Thus saith the Holy Ghost, So shall the Jews at Jerusalem bind the man that owneth this girdle, and shall deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles"
Is this a foretelling? It obviously is.
Acts 19: 1-7
It is too long to write it, but read carefully verse 6:"And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and PROPHESIED." Prophesied? If it means teaching, then to whom they were teaching? To Paul? To theselves?
Please study 1 Corinthians 14. Pay attention to v 24-25
"But if all PROPHESY, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:
And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth" Does it seem to you that prophesying here means teaching? Obviously not.
So must there be prophets/foretellers in a church?