Discuss Acts 8 Page 2

ROMANS 1:28

"And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;"

This verse; in a nutshell explains how; following man's expulsion from Eden that Adam's descendants-more or less willingly walked away from what they knew intellectually about God through the testimony of Adam and others who lived many hundreds of years into idol worship. This would result in the end of the antidiluvian world when Noah entered the ark; and would also signify the reason why God would use Israel to wipe out pagan nations once their "iniquity was at the full" (See Genesis 15:16 for earlier example). Israel was warned repeatedly not to follow the customs of the surrounding nations which often came through intermarriage or by obtaining cursed items. Sadly they hardened their hearts ( Jeremiah 32:35) to do the horrible act in Hinnom of sacrificing their children to Molech in the fire. God also judged Sodom; Gomorrah and the surrounding cities for the behaviors of men there of sodomy. Proverbs 14:34 states that righteousness exalts a nation but sin is a reproach to any people.

This verse shows that there is a process involved when people drift off into sin; we all can see evidence of God in the Creation; even the Godhead as Romans 1:20 indicates (see also Psalm 19). Acts 8:23 shows someone in the gall of bitterness and bond of iniquity. This was Simon the Sorcerer; whose story began in verse 9. AFTER being baptized and claiming to be a believer he somehow thought he could buy the powers that the Apostles had of laying hands on people and having them receive the Holy Ghost. He was warned that he had no part in their ministry by Peter; and at the end of the story he asked them to pray for him.

It is hard to say exactly what Peter warned would happen to him or if he truly repented. We see; however a warning that it more than power in the gifts but the giver of gifts we worship.

Hi S Spencer, thanks brother.

I agree with most of all you have written. My understanding is at the crucifixion and when the veil was rent from top to bottom was the sign of the fulfillment of the old with the final sacrifice, the ordinances were nailed to the cross, and the new covenant was made, but it was not yet given to the Gentiles. To me, it is clear it was after Stephen's death and the persecution and history puts that right at 3.5 years after the crucifixion.

In Acts 8:57 the high priest and the other rulers made their final rejection of Jesus with this action they "stopped their ears and ran upon him with one accord" That is my understanding when the branch was broken off. In Luke 24:42-48 the end says, "beginning at Jerusalem" That was what they were doing, to the Jew first.

Right after this in Acts 9 Paul's conversion, In Acts 10 Peter's vision and his preaching to the Gentiles, and in Acts 11 when the apostles and brethren heard that Peter preached the word of God to the Gentiles, they were mad and upset with him. They should have understood that was what they were supposed to do but they did not, they were mad, not happy.

I know in scripture they were told they would spread the gospel to the Gentiles and the world, but my understanding of scripture is it was like when they were told He would be killed and rise from the dead, this was also hidden until the given time that Prophecy would be fulfilled, and the mystery revealed.

Romans 16:25-26 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, 26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

God bless and have a good day.

RLW

Hi GiGi,

Thanks, I agree they were told that but we see it was after Stephen's death and the priests along with Saul/Paul put in prison, beat, killed, and drove out the believers in Jesus, the apostles stayed in Jerusalem. The ones Philip shared the word within Samaria must have been Jewish because the apostles did not have a problem with it because Peter and John went and prayed for them to receive the Holy Ghost, Acts 8:14-17

When Peter had his dream, it was a clear vision that God showed him the time had come for the gospel to go to the Gentiles, Acts 10. But when he told the apostles and brethren when he went to Cornelius the centurion and preached to the Gentiles, they had a big problem with it and they rebuked Peter for doing this, Acts 11, and in Acts 11:19 the ones who were persecuted and driven out were preaching the word to the Jews only.

To me, it looks the same as when Jesus told them how He was going to die and be resurrected but it was hidden from them, Luke 9:45, and we see they were devastated after He was crucified and did not believe He rose from the dead, Luke 24:10-11. It was God's perfect timing when this would happen, fulfilling prophecy and a promise.

I hope this makes sense.

God bless.

RLW

Hi S Spencer,

Part 1

Did not know it was Messiah the King in Dan. 9:25, whether that would matter, we know He is King.

I have enjoyed this discussion because of its importance not on salvation but for those who will be living when the end starts. This 70th week, if it is in the future or if it has been fulfilled in the past makes a world of difference in what people are expecting to happen.

If the 70th week is in the future there will be the 7-year pre, mid, or post-tribulation as taught, but if it has been fulfilled in the past that would make that false. What outcome would that have on those who are here?

Daniels people, the lost sheep of Israel, Matt. 10:5-6 did not reject Him, it was the corrupt rulers of Jerusalem and the temple, Luke 16:14-15 whose eyes were blinded and Jesus cried over it Luke 19:39-44. Many of them believed in Him but would not confess Him, John 12:42. Jesus the Messiah had to be cut off/sacrificed, Psalm 22:16-18 Isaiah 53:8-12 to atone for sins, Dan. 9:26.

If the priests and leaders of Jerusalem had received Jesus as their Messiah and had not conspired with the Romans to crucify Him, there would be no atonement sacrifice for the salvation of the Jews first and also to the Greek/Gentiles, it was God's plan.

Daniel 9:25-27 is a precise prediction of when Jesus would come and be anointed. In the scripture from Matthew to Acts 8:4-5, there is strong evidence without assumption of a 7-year amount of time from the anointing of Jesus the Messiah and His 3.5-year ministry/confirming the covenant to the lost sheep of Israel, Daniel's people.

His crucifixion in the middle and 3.5 more years the gospel was to only the lost sheep, Daniel's people by Jesus through His apostles, thousands were saved, then the death of Stephen, and the gospel going to the Gentiles, to make the Jews jealous, the branch broke off, but still offered to the Jews.

See Part 2

Hi Giannis,

My understanding

The questions I posted and the scripture after them were in my understanding were answering the questions, sorry if that did not make sense or if they do not answer them for you.

Was Jesus baptized with the Spirit during His water baptism or before? It was not before it was after Jesus was water baptized and come up from the water He was then anointed with the Holy Spirit.

Luke 4:1 Jesus was full of the Holy Spirit and the Spirit led, meaning to lead, bring, carry so the Spirit led or carried Jesus to the wilderness. It may be similar to when Philip was whisk away, Acts 8:39

John 3:34 "for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him" Measure means limited so Jesus was anointed with the Holy Spirit with no limits like what we see in 1 Cor. 12 the diversities of gifts no one received them all, with Jesus there was no limit to the power of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 2:32-33 My understanding is this part of Peter's explanation of what people were seeing. Jesus made the promise that when He went back to the Father He would ask the Father to send the Holy Ghost/Spirit to them, Luke 24:49 John 14:26 Acts 1:4-8. They were seeing God's answer to Jesus's request to send the Holy Ghost/Spirit. I hope that makes sense.

The Father could not send the Holy Ghost/Spirit until Jesus was glorified John 7:39 and that was after He was resurrected, Jesus did not need the Holy Ghost/Spirit after He received His glorified body. When the Holy Ghost/Spirit left Jesus and went back to God in heaven if it was at Jesus's death or when, I do not know.

I hope this all made sense thank you for your reply.

God bless,

RLW

S Spencer

Part 2

When Jesus first came it was for only the lost sheep of Israel the same for the prophecy of Dan. 9:25-27 Matt. 15:24. Jesus instructed the disciples/apostles not to go unto the Samaritans or Gentiles Matt. 10:5-7. He also told them to stay in Jerusalem and wait for the promise of the Holy Spirit Acts 1:4-5.

And we see they stayed in Jerusalem because they had not yet been told it was time to carry the gospel to the Gentiles and we see the confusion of it in Acts. This did not happen for another 3.5 years. We see in Acts 7 Stephen was in front of the high priest and the other leaders, the same ones who called for Jesus's crucifixion and what they said in Acts 7:54-57 (they cried out and stopped their ears) and killed Stephen. They fully rejected Jesus as the Messiah the Son of God.

Stephen's death as the first Martyr 34-35 AD is 3.5 years after Jesus's crucifixion this would end the 70th week. Jesus confirmed the covenant Himself for the first 3.5 years and Jesus through His apostles for the last 3.5 years.

Then the persecution by the Jews Acts 8:1-4 After this Philip the Evangelist was the first to go to Samaria, and when the apostles heard, Peter and John went to see Acts 8:14-25. Then Saul/Paul's conversion, Acts 9. Peter had his dream in Acts 10 and the mystery of the gospel goes to the Gentiles.

I hope this all though brief will give enough to show my understanding and enough you can study it if you want. Thank you again for having this peaceful and respectful discussion on this important subject.

God bless,

RLW

Hi S Spencer

We are not in the millennium it is after His second coming. He defeats the ten kingdoms/countries the army of Satan, the beast, and the false prophet at Armageddon the great supper of God, Rev. 16:12-16 Rev,17:12-14 Rev. 19:11-2. Then Satan is put in the bottomless pit, Rev 20:1-3.

Judgment of those in the first resurrection who will reign with Jesus Rev. 20:4-6, the kingdom is set up and will last for 1000 years, then Satan is released and deceives the world and gathers them, the number as the sands of the sea around the camp of the saints at Jerusalem to the last battle. Fire comes down from heaven and devoured them and Satan is cast into the lake of fire,

Then the white throne judgment of all who were not in the first judgment will be judged and all whosoever was not found in the Book of Life were cast into the lake of fire. Dan. 12:1-3 Matt. 12:36 John 5:28-29 Acts 17:31 Eccl. 12:14

We cannot put the people in 70 AD and the prince in the future. The door of the ark, the men of the city, the lambs of the flock, these things cannot be separated. It is the people that shall come, who are of the prince and this prince is not some future being who had nothing to do with 70 AD.

We know by scripture Jesus confirmed the covenant and we know by scripture He was cut off/crucified and we know by scripture by His death there is no more offering for sin, they ceased, Heb. 10:14-18

Matt. 24:14-15 can also have been for those in 66-70AD history records the believers in Jesus got out and went to Pella, Luke 19:43-44 Luke 21:20-21. My other posts should show my understanding is Dan. 9 does not apply to the end times it was a prophecy of the Messiah, Jesus, and the amount of time given to Daniel's people, the city of Jerusalem, and the temple, and the judgment for their abominations.

After the 70 weeks, the mystery of the Gospel that was hidden was revealed to the Gentiles, Acts 8:54-57 Acts 9:3-15 Acts 10:9-16 Rom. 11:25

God bless,

RLW

Hi Adam,

It is important to understand that when God promises salvation for us in New Testament Scripture, He immediately saves us when we have belief and trust in the work of Jesus Christ.

The text which I believe conveys this point is Acts 8:37, where it says: "And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."

If salvation is not produced through baptism or any human effort, then the Ethiopian eunuch was saved instantly before he was baptized. He was baptized into the Holy Spirit by Jesus Christ (read Matthew 3, Mark 1, John 1, and Acts 1) prior to physical baptism. Salvation is by faith alone. If someone dies in a car accident after accepting Jesus as their savior (coming to faith in His bloody death, burial, and resurrection) through a radio show, that person is in heaven at the moment of his death. Paul put it like this: " [Jesus] hath [present tense] raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus ( Ephesians 2:6)."

I hope this helped!

Hi Blmrwm,

Divination is something we are not to get into you can open doors to things you do not want to even think about dealing with. It is the means of foretelling future events or discovering things secret with the aid of witchcraft, sorcerers, stars, and other mystical things we have been told to stay away from. Here are a few verses, Lev. 19:26-31 Lev. 20:6 Num. 22:7 Deut. 18:9-14

Many people do not believe these things exist but believe me they do. Saul did this 1 Sam. 28:7-25. You can also see in the NT, with a slave girl in Acts 16:16-18 and a man named Simon in Acts 8:9-24

I hope this little bit helps.

God bless,

RLW

Page 2.

This is my understanding of the re-birth experience - when the Holy Spirit comes in to reside, the life must change completely & irrevocably - if that doesn't happen (& the person will know it, if truthful), then that re-birth claim is spurious, thus giving way to many deceived but 'religious' persons in the Church.

Acts 19:1-7. I've understood those disciples to be ones of Jesus, not John (sorry if I misled you in this). We know that Jesus had many disciples, not just the twelve ( Luke 6:13; Luke 10:1), so these twelve in Ephesus may well be counted amongst those who believed that Jesus was the Messiah & attended to Him whenever they could. The disciples that Paul met were only baptized by John (not in his name but by him, hence called John's baptism). They never heard of the Holy Spirit, because under John's baptism, that wasn't necessary - they received his baptism pointing towards repentance & the Savior. And why should they be baptized first & then receive the Holy Spirit? In this formation of the Church, we do read of the Holy Spirit being given after the laying on of hands (here in Acts 19:6; Acts 8:13-17), so evidently, water baptism can precede reception of the Holy Spirit in those days. So, at that time, they seemed to be separate events, but today the Holy Spirit is received by true repentance & faith in Christ ( Romans 10:9,10). As Paul stated, salvation comes by confession & believing - and in my understanding, salvation can only happen by the Work of the Holy Spirit within the person. Onto Page 3.

Giannis.

Part 2.

Acts 8:5-25.

I believe in Samaria they had a head knowledge of the things that Phillip was teaching, and they were baptized by water but in this instance, they weren't converted until Peter came and laid hands on them and they received the Holyspirit.

You can't be saved without the Holyspirit!

It takes the Holyspirit to show you the things of God, not miracles! 1 Corinthians 2:10-11.

These people were bewitched by Simon who used sorcery and they presented him to be some great one.

The unclean spirit can leave a person but it takes the Holyspirit to seal him.

This reminds me of Matthew 12:43-44.

"They received the word of God" even Simon!

When the apostles were able to bring on about the Holyspirit by the laying on of hands then that which they received (The word of God) was sown in them. It took the Holyspirit to seal them, water baptism didn't do it and their head knowledge didn't do it.

Acts 8:14-24. The Apostles were given this power to demonstrate the power of God. Romans 15:18-19. 2 Corinthians 12;12.

God bless.

Pt 2. Jesse

Next. Were the apostles born again when Jesus was with them? John 13:10, "Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all.". So they were "clean". That means they were already born again and saved. Judas here is not called clean not because he wasn't saved but because he was already sinning. How do we know that? Because Jesus washed Judas feet as well, but not Judas' whole body.

So they were saved. Were they w/baptized?

There are so many cases in Acts that show how important water baptism is. The apostles always asked believers to be water baptized as soon as they believed.

1) The incident with Phillip and eunuch,

2) Peter preaching at Pentecost, Acts 2:38, "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.",

3) the incident with Cornelius, Acts 10:47, "Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?",

4) Philipp in Samaria, Acts 8:12, "But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.",

5) Paul himself, Acts 9:18, "And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized."

6) Paul with the disciples in Ephessus, Acts 19:3, "And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism"

7) And most important of all is the commadment Jesus gave to apostles before His departure, Matthew 28:19, "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost"

Hi S Spencer,

On part 1

Jesus knew what was going to happen and much of what He told the disciples was what was going to happen to them, to prepare them for what He just told them when the temple would be destroyed. Does part of this discourse apply to the future? Yes

Matt. 24:5-13 History and the Bible document that there were several men as false Messiahs, false prophets that deceived many and which convinced many and led them to revolt to liberate Jerusalem from Roman occupation. Josephus tells us that impostors drew great multitudes after them into the wilderness, and he mentions an Egyptian prophet. We see this in Acts 21:36-38.

We have Theudas in Acts 5:36 and Judas of Galilee in Acts 5:37-8 and Simon in Acts 8:9-11, and there was more. For us today many come in the name of Jesus saying, Jesus is Christ, but they deceive and make merchandise of people. We must not ignore the first thing He said after they asked Him "Take heed that no man deceive you."

There were many conflicts between the nations around Jerusalem and Rome was having wars that caused famine. Claudius invaded Britain in 46AD, there was a great famine in Syria. Rome took control over the temple along with the sacred treasury and there was a great famine in Jerusalem.

The Jews were having small scrimmages that led to the revolt in 66 AD. We see in the bible a famine was going on, in Acts 11:27-29 in 1 Corinthians 16:1-3 Where Paul was collecting things for those in Jerusalem because they were starving. There were earthquakes in Rome, Pergamum, Laodicea, and Judea in the 50s and 60s.

We see what the Jews did to Peter and John and the first they killed was Steven and then most of them. and what Paul says about what they did in all the synagogues Acts 26:10-11. But enduring to the end the same shall be saved does not mean their flesh life would be saved.

Will cover more, hope I am making sense.

God bless,

RLW

True, U4YAH, 'Rapture' is never mentioned in the Bible. The Greek word used in 1 Thessalonians 4:17 is 'harpazo', which means 'to seize, to snatch away'. And we see the word & its application in Scriptures such as Acts 8:39 (of Philip); 2 Corinthians 12:2 (of Paul); & Revelation 12:5 (of Christ). The translators obviously described these events as taken from the Greek word for it, of a physical removing from one place to another.

Probably in an attempt to apply a more anglicized word to describe it (rather than 'harpazo'), the word 'Rapture' was used in more recent times, from the Latin, 'rapio'. If someone takes offense to using 'rapture', since the word is not found in the Bible, my suggestion has always been, 'then don't use it'. What's more important, is that we understand why this 'snatching away' was mentioned in the Bible & why it is used of believers in Paul's discourse.

Hey Patrick42

My understanding is the arm of the LORD revealed was for Israel and Jesus came for the lost sheep of Israel Matt. 15:24 and fulfill the law and the prophets, Matt. 26:54.

John 12:37-41 But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him: 38 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed 39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again, 40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them. 41 These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him.

Also, there is Matthew 8:14-17 Luke 22:35-38 Acts 8:26-35 Romans 10:11-21.

God bless,

RLW

Richard, I 99.9% agree with you, with a few nuances While I agree that a true believer won't become an atheist, agnostic, Muslim, etc. the Bible assures us that "If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself." ( 2 Tim. 2:13). Solomon is an example of someone whose heart was turned from the Lord late in in life, to the point where he worshipped the false gods of the pagan women he took to wife. Salvation is a one and done - "Believe on the Lord Jesus and thou shalt be saved" ( Acts 16:13), "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." ( Rom. 10:9). Jesus said "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." ( John 3:3); born again, once. When we are saved, our spirit is sanctified; bearing fruit depends on whether we walk in the spirit or in the flesh.

I agree 100% that God is the one who preserves us, we are to be confident that "he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ." ( Phil. 1:6), and we are "kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." ( 1 Pet. 1:5). Our faith saves us (obviously by what Jesus has done for us); the power of God keeps us saved, if we truly believe ( Acts 8:37).

I also agree - not all the wheat and tares are evident, which is why the Lord said to leave them and let them grow together. However, I can assure you, there are many tares that look like wheat, and some wheat that look like tares. True believers can become backslidden, and in some cases, severely backslidden to the point where their life produces no fruit, being saved, "yet as so by fire" ( 1 Cor. 3:15). But, any "believer" who completely abandons the faith simply demonstrates that they were never saved to begin with ( 1 Jn. 2:19).

-Chris

Hello Gerald

I haven't gone to a theological school, I am not a scholar or a theologist either, I am an engineer, it's machines I am dealing with in my everyday time not the scriptures, but I serve as a deacon in a small congregation over here. And I very much like reading all sort of information about Christianity. Nowadays there is a huge amount of information on internet. And I think all people here on this site are born again christians, so everybody has experience with God and His revelations, some people more some people less. Definitely one needs the Spirit to guide them to the truth. But still one has to be in church to be taught things properly, you just can not stay home and expect for God to reveal you all the time about everything in the Bible. In that incident with the eunoch and Philip, the eunoch makes a question to Philip, Acts 8:31, "And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.". Obviously somebody had to guide him, that person should had been a man from God, the Spirit wouldn't teach him directly, isn't it so? So the main doctrines should be learned in a church, and if one wants to go deeper or just understand something they haven't understood well, then the Spirit of God helps them. Well, at the end it seems the things we are in agreement are more than the ones we disagree. GBU

Hey Richard,

I agree an eclipse does not last for three hours, the dark time when Jesus was on the cross. I feel many things will not be clear until they start. Like what was said about the beast, Rev. 13:4 "who is able to make war with him?" In today's world what beast could be that China, the US, Russia, and the world would be defenseless to make war? We just need to be ready and watching.

My understanding is different, I know many believe in the rapture of the church and will be taken to heaven and the 7 years from Daniel placed at the end times. My understanding of Daniel 9:27 has been fulfilled, the whole prophecy was about the Messiah and the lost sheep of Israel. Jesus's ministry, the first 3.5 years and Jesus through His apostles the last 3.5 years, which ended the 70 weeks. Dan. 9:24 the things determined, then the gospel was taken to the Gentiles. The first was Philip the evangelist, Acts 8:5.

I feel it will start when Satan is cast out of heaven, Rev.12:8-9.

God bless,

RLW

Hi Chris,

Thank you very much for your insightful knowledge of Calvinism and Arminius doctrine.

Especially, for not giving a definitive praise to one or the other.

I was searching scripture, and wondering why some are so adamant for one or the other;

When scripture seems to lay it out so clearly, that God is sovereign and His words will come to pass to fulfill His prophecy and purpose, partly, through predestination of some;

I also believe, He can touch us and speak to us in various ways to guide us to Him, and gave us free will to accept or reject His word.

I agree with your explanation and It gives me more confidence in my learning,

As you know the following verse...

Acts 8:30b,31a - Understandest thou what thou readest? And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me?

Thank you and hope to have more conversations.

Steve

Deut 18:10-13 kjv,

Isaiah 8:19-20 kjv,

Leviticus 19:31 kjv,

Acts 8:22 kjv.

2 Kings 21:6 kjv.

Matthew 28:19, Mark 1:1-11, Mark 16:16, Luke 3:21, 1Corinthians 12:13, Acts 2:38,41, Acts 8:12, Acts 10:48, Acts 18:8, Acts 19:4,5, 1Peter 3:20-22, Acts 22:16,

Romans 6, Colossians 2:12,

Hopefully these are helpful

Sorcery : 1Samuel 15:23, 2Chronicles 33:6, Galatians 5:19-21, Isaiah 47:9-15, Isaiah 57:3-21, Malachi 3:5, Acts 8:9-24, Acts 13:6-8, Revelation 9:20,21, Revelation 18:23,24, Revelation 21:7,8, Revelation 22:12-15, read all in context

I guess it can be described as simple opposition to GOD, "rebellion is as witchcraft " leading into much worse.

Hopefully these are helpful

1Samuel 15:23, 2Chronicles 33:6-11, Galatians 5:16-24,

Isaiah 47:9-15, Malachi 3:5, Acts 8:9-24, Revelation 9:20,21, in context Revelation 9:15-21, Revelation 18:23, Revelation 21:8, Revelation 22:15, in Context Revelation 22,

James 1:5,

Hopefully these help

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Acts 8:13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.

14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:

15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:

16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

Acts 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. 3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

Luke 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Jesus can forgive sin, or he can say take up thy bed and walk, or I will be thou clean, or he can say today today shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Hello Frank. Just responding to the points you raised.

a. both Water Baptism and the Lord's Supper are considered ordinances of the Church, as we see both being received & performed by the apostles & the early Church: Acts 2:42; Acts 20:7; 1 Corinthians 10:16-21; 1 Corinthians 11:22-34; Romans 6:3-5; Acts 8:34-38; Acts 16:27-33; 1 Peter 3:20,21; 1 Corinthians 1:14-16. And since these 'ordinances' were never rescinded during the writing of the Scriptures, the Church has continued to observe them, albeit in different ways.

b. I agree that "being baptized into the Body of Christ is a spiritual baptism not a water baptism"; though both have different meanings. When a person is truly saved by the power of the Holy Spirit, the Spirit resides & takes ownership of this new child of God ( Romans 8:9; 1 Corinthians 12:13; Ephesians 4:5). The believer enters the family of God by the indwelling Spirit: this is Baptism of the Spirit. Whereas, water baptism is simply a public declaration of one's identification with Christ, which should occur very soon after conviction of sin, repentance & faith in Jesus' Sacrifice. Yet, today this order is rarely observed (but that's another matter). Can a person be water baptized, yet not have saving faith? It can happen. Or, can one be endued with the Holy Spirit & not be baptized in water? Most certainly as salvation comes by a Work of God in the heart & not by an act of immersion in water. But water baptism ought to follow as a part of God's saving Work & due diligence from the evangelist.

c. I don't see that Paul "stopped baptizing altogether". Rather the 1st Corinthians chapter 1 reference you gave speaks about him baptizing only a few, as others seemed unworthy because of their infighting & divisions, but his mission was to preach the Gospel & not be sidetracked with water baptizing, which others could fulfil. So, we would be hard pressed to find clear Scripture that rescinded water baptism for both believing Jew & Gentile.

Romans 8:9

"Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his"

Acts 8:15-17 seems to suggest that it is possible

to believe and not have the Spirit?

So how does one:

a.determine whether this critical status has been achieved?

b.And if it is pending, what is the mechanism for the attainment of that status?

"Do you believe the words of Apostle Peter? Peter speaks directly about when we are baptized we receive God's Holy Spirit!"

The word, "receive," and "Holy Spirit" are never found in the same verse in the KJV.

On the other hand, "receive/received" and "Holy Ghost" are found here:

John 7:39

John 20:22

Acts 1:8

Acts 2:33

Acts 2:38

Acts 3:21

Acts 8:15

Acts 8:17

Acts 8:19

Acts 9:17

Acts 10:47

Acts 19:2 ("Holy Ghost" is mentioned twice here.)

1 Thessalonians 1:6

Anything we can learn from this?

Gigi.

Part 3.

John said I baptize with water he who is coming after me shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire.

Now, Is Jesus still baptizing with the Holy Ghost? Yes. He does that through the preaching of the gospel and you receiving the message through open eyes and a blood tipped ear. This call goes out to jew and Gentiles, Before the crucifixion Christ was gathering the lost sheep of Israel, The king was in their midst and the kingdom was at hand, John the baptist came to pronounce that. Did Jesus ask the Disciples to baptize the lost sheep of Israel or anyone else BEFORE they crucified him, No. His Death had to bring on a new covenant. The circumcision of the heart. No more a commandment, IT'S NOW A CONDITION. Hebrews 8:6-11. He now put his law in man's heart. "Circumcision of the heart"

and only the baptism of the Holyspirit can do that. In Acts 2:38 the jews was asked to repent, this was very new to them.

Again, this was all Israel.

see Acts 2:36.

Now, everyone taught didn't believe, were they baptized? No, You had to believe. see Acts 8:35-37.

"Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.

And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; WHAT DOTH HINDER ME TO BE BAPTIZED?

And Philip said, IF THOU BELIEVEST WITH ALL THINE HEART, THOU MAYEST. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

Note:

1 Corinthians 12:13.

Ephesians 4:4-5.

We're put into the body by that 1 baptism and that's the baptism John the baptist referred Israel to. The Holy Ghost.

Matthew 28:18-19. And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, ALL POWER IS GIVEN UNTO ME IN HEAVEN AND IN EARTH.

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Do you notice no ask of repentance?

This is beyond Jerusalem. This power is of Jesus, His baptism.

God bless.

Doug sir, the descriptive background wrote here regarding this journey explains to me that you cast aside your opinions, understandings from men, church teachings, and asked the Holy Ghost to lead you in all truth. Because of this you can see more clearly what is in the Word I would humbly ascertain.

The "rapture" is a contentious item, (pre-trib, mid-trib, post-trib, pre-wrath, no rapture and also inverse: removal of the wicked) I too sought answers on this. 1 Thes 4:17 The key word used in this argument is in English "caught up", in Latin "rapture", and in Greek "harpazo" G726. This same word in our KJV is used 13 times, some of interest in comparative study are Rev 12:5, Jude 1:23, Acts 8:39, John 6:15. We all have an opinion in this matter, but we are all in HIS body. Regardless of what we think, His Word will come to pass as He intends it too. Alleluia!

1 Thes 4:15 The key word here is "coming" G3952 parousia- par-oo-see'-ah

From the present participle of G3918; a being near, that is, advent (often, return; specifically of Christ to punish Jerusalem, or finally the wicked); (by implication) physical aspect: - coming, presence. (there is no 3rd coming, we are looking for the 2nd advent of Christ which is this, the harvest)

Who is the restrainer? Who is he who is letting until he be taken out the way? Jude 1:9, Dan 10:21, Dan 12:1

God bless you,

Josh

I've understood it to be similar to Simon called Peter: Matthew 4:18, Matthew 10:2, different than Acts 8:9, & Luke, Acts 10:18, Acts 13:1, Acts 13:9, Acts 14:2, notice in Acts, the same book, there are multiple names referenced even a wind, Acts 27:14, Acts 27:8, Hebrews 11:18,

Matthew 1:6 Jesus called Christ, John 4:25, Luke 6:15, John 1:42, John 11:16, not Colossians 4:11,

Romans 2:17, Romans 7:3, same supposed writer as Acts , also Romans 9:26

Matthew 26:14, Luke 23:33, John 19:13, John 19:17, Acts 6:9, Revelation 11:8,

Revelation 12:9,

Luke 2:4, Luke 8:2, John 21:2, different than Acts 9:11,

Acts 1:23, Acts 9:36,

Colossians 3:15, 1John 3:1,

Hopefully these are all helpful in your study