Discuss Colossians 1 Page 14

Rob, there is an abundance of evidence of Jesus' Life & Form prior to His incarnation. How then do you understand one of the first references I shared, John 1:1-14? Everything we need to know about Jesus is there in those verses: His very Nature as the Word of God, His part in God's creative work, & His absolute divinity being set aside (in part) so that He could become Man, a Servant, for our sake.

We would have to reject Scripture as our authority or at least find multiple flaws in them, to be persuaded that the Christ of the NT is simply a created Holy Being. Even the JWs are pressed to use another word in Colossians 1:15 for 'firstborn' = 'prototokos' to read 'first created' = 'protokitises' to support their belief as you subscribe to. So, we can do whatever we want with Scriptures if we're so inclined, yet the proofs are before us all.

Speaking of Jesus:

But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting. ( Micah 5:2)

Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. ( John 8:58)

Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? ( John 14:9)

To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. ( 2 Corinthians 5:19)

In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. ( Colossians 1:14-17)

Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. ( Colossians 2:8-9)

I found other scriptures. The scripture 1 John 5:7 should be enough. Jesus name before Bethlehem is the WORD.

Hebrews 7:3, speaking of Melchizedek, says: "but made Like unto the Son of God.."

John 1:1-5, 14 clearly shows that Jesus, the Word; was in the beginning with God.

Ephesians 1:4, 9-10

Proverbs 8:22-31

Psalms 33:6, Psalm 2:7

Colossians 1:16-19

Colossians 2:9

1 Corinthians 8:6

Note: the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed, declared Jesus Begotten: NOT made.

The poor in spirit are the ones that admit that we desperately need a savior from our sin, Jesus Christ:

Riches profit not in the day of wrath: but righteousness delivereth from death. ( Proverbs 11:4)

Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price. Wherefore do ye spend money for that which is not bread? and your labour for that which satisfieth not? hearken diligently unto me, and eat ye that which is good, and let your soul delight itself in fatness. Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David. ( Isaiah 55:1-3)

Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest? For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the LORD: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word. ( Isaiah 66:1-2)

Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: ( Colossians 1:26-28)

Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him? ( James 2:5)

We must be thankful and grateful for the understanding its not something we want to underestimate. God created our belief. Little children you are from God and have overcome them, for he who is in you is greater than he that is in the world. 1 John 4.4. The devil attempts to remove that blessing through sin and being human this still occurs. The greater our relationship with God the less we sin, the more blessed our lives will be. The easier the trials and test of this present evil world are too bear. Happy feast of tabernacles 2020 we ever you are around the World.

REVELATION 20:4 ... and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded (by truth, sword of God)... There is sin in deception (flesh) and no sin in truth (Spirit). Galatians 2:20 I (the flesh) am crucified with Christ: nevertheless, I live (but am dead); yet not I (because I am dead), but Christ (Spirit of God) liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh (which is dead) I live by the faith (not my faith because I am dead) of the Son of God (Spirit). Colossians 3:3-4 For ye are dead (can the dead sin), and your life is (become the life of the Spirit) hid with Christ in God. (vs) 4 When Christ (in Spirit, in truth), who is our life (Spirit) shall appear (be revealed), then shall ye also appear with him in glory (God). Ephesians 1:22-23 And (the Father) hath put ALL things under his feet, and gave him to be head (because we have been beheaded) over ALL things to the church (your body), (vs) 23 Which is his body (because you are dead), the fullness of him (the Spirit of God) that filleth ALL IN ALL. Colossians 1:18 And he is the head (because you have been beheaded by the sword of God, truth) of the body, the church, the firstborn from the dead (but you were resurrected with him into life)..... Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be in you (because the carnal head is dead, beheaded by the sword of God, truth) which was also in Christ Jesus (now the new head).......

Readings col, 1,8 your important of walking in the spirit as believer

John 1:1

Revelation 3:14

Colossians 1:17-18

Hi Carlton,

I agree that Jesus is the way to everlasting life.

I am not sure what you mean by a "condemned to death sinner" being "protected by the Law" by "putting themselves in the Mercy Seat of Christ."

I don't want to live in a society that allows murderers to be justified in the Law because they have decided to be "brave enough" to believe that the Law of God has been fulfilled through the blood of Christ and therefore we do not need to be under it anymore.

Faith in Jesus does not free people from the consequences of sin.

Murderers are to be dispatched back to God.

Forgiveness is up to the one offended, not the offender; and it is based on repentance.

The Law is there for us to follow.

Again, I will state that only Jesus did not NEED the Law.

He was Perfect.

The rest of us need the Law.

Concerning the "Bride:"

I don't believe that the collective Christian churches are the Bride of Christ.

The Bride is Jerusalem that God took to wife ( Ezekiel 16:8), and SHE will be renewed and called "New Jerusalem" ( Revelation 3:12, 21:2)

We as Christians make up the collective "body" of Christ ( Ephesians 1:23, 5:23, Colossians 1:18, 24, etc..)

Bendito Palavra

Concerning the Law;

The everlasting Law God established with those that desire to be called His children still stands.

The 10 Commandments still stand.

Any time we sin we are under the Law.

Everyone sins: Everyday!

Blood ordinances were fulfilled by the death of Christ ( Matthew 26:28, Romans 2:29, Colossians 1:14)

Priestly duties connected to the sons of Aaron were fulfilled in Christ. ( Hebrews 8:1)

The Temple was destroyed; as promised: ( Matthew 24:2)

Deuteronomy 29:29

"The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children FOR EVER, that we may do all the words of this law."

1 Chronicles 16:17

"And hath confirmed the same to Jacob for a law, and to Israel for an EVERLASTING covenant,"

Ephesians 2:15

"Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ORDINANCES; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;"

Hebrews 7:12

"For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law."

Matthew 27:51

"And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;"

All has not been fulfilled.

All will not be fulfilled until the return of Christ.

Believe the words of Jesus.

Mathew 5:18

"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."

Concerning works;

Why would Jesus care to evaluate the WORKS of the churches that are on earth at the end times when He comes back if they don't matter? ( Revelation 2:2, 9, 13, 19. 3:1, 3:8, 3:15)

Also look at:

James 2:14-26 - "Faith without works is dead"

Revelation 14:13

Revelation 20:12

Lora, CONCERNING THE WORD "MYSTERY"

I agree with you, the mystery of God is complex.

I do not agree with you concerning the "mystery of godliness" as it pertains to Scripture you provided, being God Himself. I believe it concerns the Son of God being born of woman ( Isaiah 7:14). Jesus is the One spoken of in 1 Timothy 3:16 and the One promised in Genesis 3:15

I agree with you, Jesus is the way to salvation.

I, however, must disagree with you that God is Jesus and Jesus is God, and again will state that I believe Jesus never came claiming to be His Father.

Jesus came as the personification of the Words of the Father John 1:1-2); and His authority came from the Father; and He lost none of His Father's sheep ( John 17:12)

But Jesus is not the Father.

The word mystery only occurs in the New Testament.

The word "mystery" is the Greek word "musterion" and basically means a "secret."

There is more than one "mystery" spoken of in Scripture.

There is the mystery concerning the DURATION of time of the blindness of Israel ( Isaiah 6:9-10, Romans 11:25).

There is the mystery concerning the kingdom of God which was revealed in parables to the general public, but explained to the 12 Apostles; ( Matthew 13:10-11, 1 Peter 1:10-12)

There is the mystery concerning the fact that "we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed" ( John 11:25-26, 1 Corinthians 15:51, also look at Philippians 3:14, 1 Thessalonians 4:15, Hebrews 9:27)

There is the mystery of iniquity and lawlessness that is connected to MYSTERY BABYLON of Revelation 17:5-7, (look at Daniel 8:23, Daniel 12:4, Matthew 22:4, Acts 2:38, 2 Thessalonians 2:7)

There is the great mystery or secret concerning the Gentiles being co-heirs in the body of Christ, which was only revealed after the second rejection the King and the Kingdom by the Jews in Acts 28:17-31. This is the secret that was kept secret since the world began and what is being spoken of in Romans 16:25-26, Ephesians 3:1-12, and Colossians 1:24-27.

God is Spirit. There are MANY scriptures on God being seen. If you read it slowly, you will see the description is in imagery.

Go get some pen & paper and write down these scriptures; then you can read them and picture God in your heart when you pray.

John 1:18, John 6:46, John 5:37

1 John 4:12, 1 John 3:6, 1 John 4:20

1 Timothy 1:17, 1 Timothy 6:16

Luke 1:31-32, Matthew 22, Romans 1:20

Philippians 2, Hebrews 1:1-13,

Colossians 1:15

Deuteronomy 4:12, 15. Exodus 3:6

Exodus 33:20-23

Isaiah 38:11, Isaiah 64:4

Job 9:11, Job 35:14, Job 23:8

This is a ps from me: if you have "pictures of God" (some artist imagined) in your home? You need to get rid of them,

According to Exodus 20. That's not a photograph of God and is considered to be a graven image. Crosses on the wall is ok, but not images.

I have 1 still life painting of a bowl of fruit and a pitcher of water. It makes me think of eating a meal with Jesus.

Mishael

So who said this and to who was this directed to?

Bible book of John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

48 Then answered the Jews

Then answered the Jews

Then answered the Jews

pretty obvious who Jesus called of their father the DEVIL. Obviously not all of them

So is Jesus is an antisemite?

It was Jesus who condemned, not me.

that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine,

Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than GODLY EDIFYING which is in faith: so do.

Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:

From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;

Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;

I've been around 7 months; almost every day. Your learned, know many things; but frequently if not daily you display the same arguments. That do not follow with what others are discussing in the room.

It is centered around exposing, disgust against Jewish worship , hatred of ancient Jewish practices, condemnation, You accuse them regularly for crucifying Jesus regularly, etc.

Enough. We've heard this every day. It is unedifying for anyone. You are an educated scholar to be sure, BUT I do not perceive the Holy Spirit's approval on this kind of "preaching" every day. I think you could use your knowledge of the Bible to help people that come into this room with real questions about other subjects; about life; how to study the Bible.

This is NOT how the Holy Spirit teaches. I'd be dead with the wicked dead if it was. The Holy Spirit comes alongside. He CONVICTS the sinner of sin so he is able to repent and pray for forgiveness. Holy Spirit does not bludgeon the sinner into submission! He is the express Love of Jesus Christ. He Teaches mysteries so we can understand why everything that happened with Jesus as

Happened through prophesies.

What you teach is not like Jesus. He said to heal the sick, cleanse the leper's, proclaim liberty to captives: preach the GOSPEL.

You don't do that. Please change. We love you no matter what. I do.

2 Corinthians 3:18, Psalms 17:17, Epheians 4:18 1:18, 3:14 Deuteroonpmy 29:2-4, Mathew16:17,11:4,6:22-23, 20:15, Luke 24:45, corinthians,2:14-16, John 3:6, Romans 8:5-8, Colossians 1:9, 3:16, 3:16, Amos 8:11-43, Proverbs 22:9,23:6,28:22. 0r google En-Gedi Resource Center and learn alot more.

Thanks Chris. The devil playing head games with me

David, that could sound confusing, unless one understands the word 'firstborn'. If that verse stated that Jesus was the first to rise from the dead, then there would be a problem, as you correctly pointed out.

However, when this word 'firstborn' is applied to Jesus (as in Rom 8:29, Col 1:15, Col 1:18), we see the Gk word 'prototokos' = first to give birth to used (& so we have the word, prototype, as an example). This word, prototokos signifies that Jesus was the first, in a following series of events/instances, to usher in something new. So here in Col 1:18, Jesus was the first to be raised in a changed body outfitting Man & mankind for residence in Heaven. So Jairus' daughter or Lazarus had their physical life restored after death - their bodies remained the same with their hearts & lungs now functioning & they went back to their normal lives: they weren't in anyway resurrected in the same manner Jesus was said to be resurrected.

In Rom 8:29, we see Jesus here as the 'forerunner or precursor' to the new Man (i.e. God & Man as One): & this is the way we are now through our new birth having God the Spirit indwelling us.

And in Col 1:15, "He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature". Here, the reference is to both Creation (v 16) & the Church (v 18), where Jesus is seen as existing before all creation (our forerunner) & indeed was also the Creator of the worlds & the Church.

But as a side note, the JWs change the word 'firstborn' in Col 1:15 to 'protokitises' = first created. This they do because their doctrine only allows for a 'created' Jesus outside of the Deity (therefore negating the Triune God) & not 'firstborn' which applies to birth/coming forth from the Godhead.

Its probably the devil irritating me but there was a little girl Jesus raised up from the dead then Lazarus and this was done before Jesus died and was resurrected so how is Jesus the first born of the dead ?

Patience is the ability to wait upon God with the right attitude. So without faith it is impossible to have patience. Faith is the hand that reaches out to lay hold the grace of God.

1- offer a child for Molech. Walking under fiery breezes is one of the rites performed during the offerings

2 - Matt 19:1-11

3- Galat 4:9

4 - Isaiah 7:9 If ye will not believe, surely ye shall not be established."

5- Galat 4:9

>>> Colossians 1:9-10

COPY this down & put it on your fridge.

Satans time is short and he's doing all he can to make us unemployed, sick, scared, suicidal,addicted,sad

1 Samuel 18:4 Exchanging Armor

And Jonathan stripped himself of the ROBE that was on him and gave it to David, and his ARMOR, and even his SWORD and his BOW and his BELT.

Jesus exchanged HIS armor with US. Why?

Because we are warring against spiritual wickedness in high places. Ephesians 6:10-18. Read ALL those center column references to other Books. See Isaiah 24:21-22. Romans 13:1-5,11-12; John 12:31

Jesus did not leave us here to just wear a wedding garment and hold a lamp of oil.

He left us scripture that we're to do spiritual war in the heavenlies. It's about strong faith and prayer: intercession; "standing in the gap". Jesus is making intercession for us right now! People come into the prayer room with grievous problems we SHOULD BE praying & doing war for. Ephesians 6:12, Romans 8:38, Colossians 1:9, 16-17; 2:15. 1 Thessalonians 5:8

Standing in the gap is when you hold a lamb in your arms of prayer, and war against the demonic hoards that are trying to kill it; steal its life, destroy its hope in Jesus! It should make you want to save that lamb. Do you have any "lambs" in your life? Are you willing to snatch it out of the hands of Satans hoard of demons, WITH the WORD of God?

You have a wealth of Bible Knowledge but are any lambs being saved with weighty speech? Don't you want to receive a Crown at Bema Seat? What would Jesus do? He showed us in His Gospels. If we are His followers we will imitate what he was Doing.

Multitudes of people are committing suicide for unbelievable reasons. That's on Satans scoreboard. Is there anyone who will challenge that? Do you know how to take the scriptures and frighten the demons off of someone on a chair with a rope around their neck? Or a hypodermic needle going in an arm.

Parents!Pray rightly for your kids. Punch out Satan! We have permission!

Very enlightening to google Bible Covenants! Covenants are very binding and that's why we are warned to not enter one lightly.

1 Samuel 18:4 Exchanging Armor

And Jonathan stripped himself of the ROBE that was on him and gave it to David, and his ARMOR, and even his SWORD and his BOW and his BELT.

Jesus exchanged HIS armor with US. Why?

Because we are warring against spiritual wickedness in high places. Ephesians 6:10-18. Read ALL those center column references to other Books. See Isaiah 24:21-22. Romans 13:1-5,11-12; John 12:31

Jesus did not leave us here to just wear a wedding garment and hold a lamp of oil.

He left us scripture that we are to war against spiritual war in the heavenlies. It's about strong faith and prayer: intercession; "standing in the gap". Jesus is making intercession for us right now! People come into the prayer room with grievous problems we SHOULD BE praying & doing war for. Ephesians 6:12, Romans 8:38, Colossians 1:9, 16-17; 2:15. 1 Thessalonians 5:8

Standing in the gap is when you hold a lamb in your arms of prayer, and war against the demonic hoards that are trying to kill it; steal its life, destroy its hope in Jesus! It should make you want to save that lamb. Do you have any lambs in your life? Are you willing to snatch it out of the hands of Satans hoard of demons, WITH the WORD of God?

You have a wealth of Bible Knowledge but are any lambs being saved with weighty speech? Don't you want to receive a Crown at Bema Seat? What would Jesus do? He showed us in His Gospels. If we are His followers we will imitate what he was Doing.

Multitudes of people just in America, are committing suicide for unbelievable reasons. That's on Satans scoreboard. Is there anyone who will challenge that? Do you know how to take the scriptures and frighten the demons off of someone on a chair with a rope around their neck? Or a hypodermic needle going in an arm.

Parents!Pray rightly for your kids. Punch out Satan

God made everything. he even put genes in you to make his image in man and of course he put the neurotransmitters in you to maintain that image if you develop your mind with God but Adam didn't do that. Adam had one commandment and he broke it after naming the woman, woman because she came from man and then naming her Eve, and so he was expelled form the Garden and missed his chance of developing with God. God puts ten commandments in front of us. Children mis that chance if we do not lay the foundation so as they can choose wisely when they are adults.

Genes do not change or mutate when they develop as they are suppose to with God; but when we develop with wrong stimulations get wrong results and often mutation after the fact that we reap what we sow and so we reap mutations; appropriate stimulations give appropriate results, Inappropriate gives inappropriate results. So what is one suppose to do. Do as you do if you are getting appropriate results as no man or woman is perfect; and when it comes to our children we can only do what we know to do and or is natural to do, and i know it may be hard to know what is natural anymore as we have or are losing touch with nature. Nevertheless, it is all about mind development and how we develop and no man or woman can help it if they do not plant the proper seeds. That is maybe the function of parents and or actually man as he is suppose to be head and or is usually head and or the woman if she is the head . It seems that nothing is straight forward any more and at this point; i usually quit as I do not need the confusion etc........

Incidentally, O I know now why scientist do not have a MindHQ, in fact a few messages ago; I actually did a MindHQ along with my answers and i think I passed it but I knew the answer as I designed it, and or copied it from an intenet search on the brain or mind and or something

Christi Smith you are greatly Loved ,don't worry about your appearance man looks at appearance but God looks at your heart, we should all seek to please God and ask the Holy Spirit to comfort you,he is out helper,our comforter and our teacher,ask him to help you over come the fear of death according to Hebrews 2:15 and ask him to teach you how to trust in him according to Psalms 56:3 God bless you Jesus Loves you

Bob Hilt

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Whether they are spoken of separately or combined, the "Jews" ( 2 Kings 16:6), the "Gentiles" ( Genesis 10:5), and the "church of God" ( 1 Corinthians 1:2) make up the three-fold subject matter of the word of God. Every part of the Bible is, in general, written concerning one of these three classes or divisions of persons. Therefore, what is written needs to be appropriately interpreted and applied to the class or division of people to which it was written for!

The misappropriation of these three classes of people; "Jews," "Gentiles," and the "church" of God, into Scripture where they do not belong is one of the foremost reasons why the word of God is misunderstood, look at Galatians 1:13, Ephesians 1:22, 5:23, Philippians 3:6, Colossians 1:24.

Chris,

Page 2

In addressing your comment mentioning that God would not properly be representing all races; I will state that God chose Adam and his lineage to bring forth, umbilical cord to umbilical cord, the Savior of the world ( Genesis 3:15). That promise by our heavenly Father made this particular lineage the most important lineage to ever walk on the face of the planet. All other peoples and nations mentioned in the Bible are only due to their interaction, good or bad, ( Isaiah 10:5) with God's chosen people and the nation of Israel.

We are all children of God, blessed by Him, and given freewill to believe whatever we want!

On a side note, you state that Adam and Eve were made "in the image of God." The PLURAL words of God stating "in OUR image, after OUR likeness" ( Genesis 1:27) is the intention of God to make the mortal features of mankind to be a physical reflection of God and the angels. We are to be a representative figure of what we looked like in the 1st Dispensation of time. We are an illusion of that spiritual body, but delivered unto these flesh bodies in order to be tried and tested by God by the very freewill He grants unto us. How could God the Father and His only begotten Son know us beforehand if the first time we came into existence was in these flesh bodies in this 2nd Dispensation of time? The answer is simple; God "did foreknow" ( Rom 8:29) each and every one of us because we were all there in the 1st Dispensation of time. The only One made in the true image of God is His only begotten Son ( John 5:37, John 10:30 John 14:7, John 14:9, Colossians 1:14, Colossians 1:15. The clear understanding that there are 3 heaven and earth ages can be found in 2 Peter 3:6, 2 Peter 3:7, 2 Peter 3:13.

Question If the beginning of the earth was the first seven days of creation found in Genesis 1:2 - 2:4, then when did the fall of Satan occur?

FOR Andrew Kingsly Raj who posted prayer request above:

2 Peter 3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. 18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

Colossians 1:9 For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;

John 15:4-5 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me. I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing.

Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

My comment is that no-one can preach the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ unless they know Him well. It is a sad sight when someone preaches the Word, but then falls/turns away from the Lord, or puts Him on a shelf to go seek after other gods, money, fame, women, etc.

I appreciate your well thought out reply Carlos. Your conclusion made me think this of this verse: 1 John 5:7 'For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word(Jesus), and the Holy Ghost: AND THESE THREE ARE ONE.' It seems to me that you didn't need any theology to reach your conclusion. The answers were in God's Word, as they always are!

Jesse, you have dissected Colossians 1:16 indisputably well. However, what I am focused on is the "Unto Him", the "For Him" statement in the verse.

What could Paul have meant by stating that all things were created "Unto" Him?

Romans 11:36 says essentially the same thing.

Carlos, here is what I get from Colossians 1:16:

For by Him, or more literally, in Him. There's a prepositional word there that means in. In Him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, and that's lordships, or principalities, or authorities:

So He's made everything, both visible and invisible. I look back to Ephesians 6:12 and I see that these listings of dominions, principalities, and powers are ranks of angels. Angels have military rank, both good angels and evil.

Paul says, For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. The word high places in the Greek means spirit realm. So it seems as though angels have rank.

But the emphasis here is that in Christ, all things were created, both visible and invisible. Things that are in heaven and things that are upon the earth, all the spiritual creatures, angels, were created in Him. All things were created by Him, and that's the word through. In Greek, it is DIA with the Genitive. All things were created through Him, and for Him: that's the preposition EIS, meaning unto Him, or for Him.

I'm just sharing what I see from that Verse, not looking for a long drawn out discussion, but just sharing my understanding. I am however curious to see how others see this verse.