Discuss Colossians 1 Page 4

Amen GiGi. The question that should be asked is: 'how much do we allow the Holy Spirit to have of us, so as to direct our lives?' We know that the Spirit of God yearns that we be conformed to Christ's Image ( Romans 8:29); yet our flesh continually desires conformation to the world ( Romans 12:2). The more of the 'world' that drops off, the road before us towards maturity (perfection) becomes more visible & desirable - though the end of it can only be Heaven when all traces of the world & sin are removed.

As the apostle wrote, "And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit" ( Galatians 5:24,25). And it's only by the Power of the Spirit in us can our flesh be crucified, and only by the Life of the Spirit in us can we truly walk in the Spirit, desiring only to please our Lord God & His Son. Those who so walk, can be confident that "an entrance shall be ministered unto (them) abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ." ( 2 Peter 1:11).

Chris,

It is good that we agree on this, as I do not know Greek. I wasn't quite sure if I had learned it correctly and you have confirmed it for me.

Paul said that he who began a good work in us is faithful to complete it. ( Philippians 1:6) So our completeness comes from the working of God in our lives and in us by the Holy Spirit. Paul also says that he desires for us to grow up into the full measure of Christ. ( Ephesians 4:13).

These verses seem to imply this same view of being made complete, having progressed from conversion to maturity and, ultimately, readiness for heaven. I think that it is not so much a matter of our effort (though we do need to make choices to obey) but of being open, willing, and desirous of how the Spirit wills to work in us to bring us towards completeness.

On another angle, this makes me think that this perfection/completeness may be referring to God's plan coming to fullness, perfection, fruition, and, as you say, His foreordained end to His plan for creation, in us one by one, and in the whole church over the ages. There is a culmination of all things to come. That will be glorious.

That's quite correct, GiGi. The Greek word for 'perfect' is 'teleios', which essentially means 'having reached its end' (or, made complete, and by extension, 'matured or perfected'). And such was the burden on Paul, that he fulfil his calling & ministry to not only bring folk to Christ but that they would also reflect lives that exhibit Christ in them. And this he did by 'teaching them & warning them' that they would grow in faith & grace to the point of real spiritual maturity.

As Paul wrote to Titus in Titus 2:12,13, "Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ." We could see these verses as the fruit of Christian spiritual maturity, which Paul pointed believers to & hoped to see, & also urged Titus to pursue for his congregations.

Hello Chuck,

I have heard that this word "perfect" means "complete" rather than flawless. But even this rendering does not really explain what Paul is meaning by this phrase. Perhaps he is talking about being sure that those who respond to the Gospel with belief have been matured in faith by sound teaching and/or ensuring that those who respond the Gospel with belief truly understand the salvation they now possess. Or perhaps he is talking about these people having faith that endures to the the end of their lives so that they will stand before God with the righteousness of Jesus and no merit of themselves.

I hope that someone else will respond with a better explanation than I give here.

In Colossians 1: verse 28, what is Paul stressing with "that we present every man perfect in Christ Jesus." Knowing that man, even with the gospel and the Spirit of the Lord within, does not remain perfect. Thank you!

Sister Janice:

Do you understand what it means to produce after their own kind?

God said let us make man in our image.

God is Spirit, if we are (Re)created in his image, we also become Spirit (God, in a glorified body, just like Christ)

Psalms 82:6 For I have said, Ye are gods, the children of the most high.

Psalms 104:30 Thou sendeth forth thy Spirit, they are created, thou renewest the face of the earth.

John 3:6 ... that which is born of Spirit (God) is Spirit (God).

John 17:21 That they all may be one, as thou Father, art in me, and I IN THEM ....

Colossians 1:2 ...this mystery ....Christ IN YOU .....

Romans 8:29 ....predestinate to be conformed to the IMAGE of his Son ....

Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be IN YOU, which was also in Christ Jesus:

Philippians 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God.

Philippians 2:13 For it is God that worketh IN YOU both TO WILL and TO DO his good pleasure.

You must be born again: understand what awaits you when you leave this body of flesh.

1 Timothy 6:16 Who (Christ) only hath immortality, dwelling in the light ....

1 Corinthians 15:53 ...this mortal shall PUT ON immortality (Christ only hath immortality, we put on Christ).

1 Corinthians 15:28 ....that God may be ALL in ALL.

Ephesians 4:4 ....One Spirit (eternal life)......One Body (creation, that inherited eternal life)

God bless you.

Lori:

Do you understand what it means to produce after their own kind?

God said let us make man in our image.

God is Spirit, if we are (Re)created in his image, we also become Spirit (God, in a glorified body, just like Christ)

Psalms 82:6 For I have said, Ye are gods, the children of the most high.

John 3:6 ... that which is born of Spirit (God) is Spirit (God).

John 17:21 That they all may be one, as thou Father, art in me, and I IN THEM ....

Colossians 1:27 ...this mystery ....Christ IN YOU .....

Romans 8:29 ....predestinate to be conformed to the IMAGE of his Son ....

Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be IN YOU, which was also in Christ Jesus:

Philippians 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God.

Philippians 2:13 For it is God that worketh IN YOU both TO WILL and TO DO his good pleasure.

You must be born again: do you understand what awaits us when we leave this body of flesh.

1 Timothy 6:16 Who (Christ) only hath immortality, dwelling in the light ....

1 Corinthians 15:53 ...this mortal shall PUT ON immortality (Christ only hath immortality, we put on Christ).

God bless you.

Part 1

Hellow Antony.

Although I don't agree with you about the church going through the great tribulation (but this is another topic), I agree with you about those 7 churches in Revelation

Notice. In verse 1:7 says "Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia...".

Now Jesus says to John to write His words and send them to those 7 churces. If the churches are symbolic for the history of the church through the ages and not litteral, just imagine say the pastor of Sardis who maybe was doing well in his ministry to receive a message from Jesus telling him that he is dead. He will definately die of heart attack. The pastor of Ephessus? If he had not fallen from his first love to read Jesus telling hin that? Imagine if Philadelphia was not doing well and Jesus congratulated them? How about Antipas the martyr, was he symbolic for something? It is obvious that those churches were litterally existing at that time and Jesus adressed some issues there, He knows they have to be corrected.

But the problem ia always initiating from what Jesus said to Philadelphians."Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth."

But what is it meant by "the world" and "the earth"?

Colossians 1:6 "Which is come unto you, as it is in ALL THE WORLD; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, ...:" also verse 23 "If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and WHICH WAS PREACHED TO EVERY CREATURE WHICH IS UNDER HEAVEN; whereof I Paul am made a minister;" Romans 9:17-18 "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went INTO ALL THE EARTH, and their words unto ENDS OF THE WORLD

Boniface Ugwu:

Spiritual transformation is coming to the truth of God's words. YOU ARE controlled by the Holy Spirit, transformation comes when you agree with God. THE WORD.

Philippians 2:13 For it is God (Christ in you) that worketh IN YOU (God's body) both TO WILL and TO DO his good pleasure.

Colossians 1:27 ....this mystery .....Christ in you ......

John 14:6 I AM TRUTH ..... I AM LIFE .......

You are just the body of truth and life, and Christ is truth and life.

1 Corinthians 12:27 Now ye are the BODY OF CHRIST ....

Ephesians 4:4 One spirit (life eternal) .....One body (creation, you and I, where truth and life dwell).....

God Bless You (his body) with truth and life.

Amen Brother Fred:

A seed planted, matures into a seed harvested, the seed harvested ALWAYS is exactly like the SEED planted, the seed is the word of God, and the word of God is Christ: if Christ be planted IN YOU, then at the death of this body, the SEED, Christ (eternal life) will be harvested.

Colossians 1:27 ....this mystery .......Christ in you ..............

Hi Gigi.

Thanks for your reply.

John 16:12-14 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, HE WILL GUIDE YOU INTO ALL TRUTH: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: AND HE WILL SHEW YOU THINGS TO COME.

He shall glorify me: FOR HE SHALL RECEIVE OF MINE, AND SHALL SHEW IT UNTO YOU.

When Christ first came he came for the lost sheep of Israel, When they were commissioned by Jesus and "by revelation of the Spirit" they were to take the message to the world using the old testament uncovering the mystery that was later to be revealed.

Paul elaborates on this in Colossians 1:25-26 "Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;

Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

Also;

Ephesians 3:9-11 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

In acts when they received the Holyspirit they expounded from the old testament, Which was the promise to Abraham, Blessing to the Gentiles and the mystery of the Church.

These are the same scripture they had all along!

Truth is revealed to us in that same manner. By the Holyspirit.

Apart from the Holyspirit we can read the scripture all day everyday and never get to the debt of the meaning of scripture.

Also;

Christ "in us" gives us a new heart also causes us to walk as he did.

What ever is not done in the spirit is dead works.

God bless.

God bless.

Hi Fredrick.

Greek:

Transliteration: pantokratr

Pronunciation: pan-tok-rat'-ore

Definition: From G3956 and G2904; the all ruling that is God (as absolute and universal sovereign): - Almighty Omnipotent.

KJV Usage: Almighty(9x), omnipotent(1x).

Occurs: 10

In verses: 10

Revelation 1:8. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, THE ALMIGHTY.

God bless.

I am Alpha and omega the beginning and the ending said the Lord which is and which was and which is to come the Almighty look up the all mighty in the greek Amen

To the saints on this site:

1 Corinthians 4:5 speaks volume to us since saints understand the mysteries revealed to the faithful and Romans 1:6 & Romans 8:28. For saints know Isaiah 5:20. We are where we are today. God is so great to allow us to do things in life in our own free will where in the end The Glory belongs to God. God allowed me to have worked with great scientists in America with great heart. I do not need to understand and question everything at the spare of the moment. I just know the paths God lead me in was not to question authorities in the land. God has the heavenly plans and those are what I am and every saint must be very excited about. When you walk in the Spirit of God, you are like in a trance. Next thing you know someone tells you on earth job well done. Not to boast but again and again to Glorify God because He helped you to do job well done. I can control only me and hopefully have a strong influence with my family and friends and anybody that touches my life to follow God as I walk the walk and talk the talk. Even 1 Timothy 5:4 saints take it to heart. All is good with God James 1:17 and all are Your's 1 Corinthians 3:21-23. I know It is easy said and done here on earth. We all have afflictions and to some unbearable 2 Corinthians 6:4. I thank God for the blood of Jesus Christ for that power is in everyone who put his trust, faith and believe in that He will never leaves you. Psalms 91 memorize!

The Spirit speaks to you 1 Peter 3:13, 3 John 1:11. Be in Spirit so you can 1 Thessalonians 5:21 and 1 Thessalonians 5:15. Philippians 2:13 and Ephesians 1:9. Saints, Ephesians 4:29

There are more heavenly things I can share but I like to inspire you with this testimony Colossians 1:27. Let us all grow in true Charity 1 Corinthians 13:4-8, the bond of perfectness Colossians 3:14. In conclusion 1 Thessalonians 5:16-18. Happy Sunday with the Lord Jesus Christ. Grace and peace to ALL.

Hey Henry,

Interesting thread, can we understand the wisdom of God? God is light and no darkness is in Him. "God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man". Can we understand what was done to Job? Can we understand why God allowed Satan limited control over the earth? Do we know why all the deaths, wars, and evil are allowed to be on earth? Do we overlook Jesus was sacrificed not only to reconcile things on the earth but also to reconcile things in heaven Colossians 1:20?

Did God allow Adam and Eve to sin? God has declared the end from the beginning and many things we have not been told, there come speculation that man is good at, self-included. There are two Adams in scripture and God's plan was before the world was. Can we ask the question, was the first Adam's purpose to start mankind; or was it for the same reason the last Adam was manifested that Satan had no clue? 1 John 3:8.

Isaiah 46:9-10 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, 10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

We cannot come close to grasping the wisdom of God and His plan. We must humble ourselves; we have been given a choice to accept the grace God has given us in the sacrifice of His only begotten Son. If we accept this gift of salvation, we give this fleshly life to Him.

God is in control, not free will, whether we understand it or not and we must trust God with what happens to us in this life even if we are killed. A time is coming when many will be. Our hope is not in this life but in the life to come.

Job 38:1-4 Micah 4:12 1 Corinthians 2:14 Revelation 10:7

God bless,

RLW

Hopefully these help explain: John 17, Romans 12:5, Ephesians 4:4,5, 1Corinthians 10:17, 1Corinthians 12:12,13, Galatians 3:26-29, 1Timothy 2:5, Romans 5:19, Colossians 1:12-22,

Gigi. That's your privilege and I'm also aware of Historical background of

Very early doctrinal beliefs and again she never ask about water she just

Ask about baptism and their were both types individually done or together.

Also Pauls doctrine never stated different just His was specifically given by

Jesus Christ. Galatians 1:11+12 also Colossians 1:25-29 that's the scripture

So I'll go with scripture. This needs no reply or defence.

Paul. Another point to bring to your thinking God's Word in the Church Epistles

Tells us to put on the mind of Christ by working God's Word and Romans12:2

Renewing our minds or changing thought to line up with scripture in what we do and

How we do it. No other book gives spiritual instruction strictly pertaining to

Conduct in the church of God the Body of Christ. Colossians 1:24.

Dere:

Salvation is so YOU will never die; but are GIVEN eternal life.

1 John 5:11 And this is the record, God hath GIVEN to us eternal LIFE, and THAT LIFE is his SON.

YOU DIED with Christ on the cross.

YOU AROSE, a new creation, the LIFE of Christ IN YOU: you are the body of Christ.

1 Timothy 6:16 Who (Christ) ONLY hath IMMORTALITY, dwelling in the light ....

1 Corinthians 15:53 .....and this mortal (you) SHALL PUT ON IMMORTALITY .....Christ ONLY hath IMMORTALITY.

1 Corinthians 15:54 .....Death is swallowed up in victory ......

Colossians 1:27 .....this MYSTERY .....Christ in YOU .....

1 Corinthians 12:27 Now ye are the BODY of Christ ....

Psalms 82:6 I have said, YOU are gods, the children of the most high.

This is the GOOD NEWS of the gospel.

God bless you!

, Colossians 1:27 I haven't noticed on this forum many sharings on the

Subject of Christ in us the hope of Glory which is the spiritual power it's

Available to walk in against the spiritual powers we deal with. We who are

Born again Saints are viewed by God our Father as more than conquer sons

And daughters and Jesus Christ our head Spiritual brother. Put on His armor

God's Word Ephesians 6 and conquer in Love.

Brother James:

They are the same; BUT,

Christ spoke other words ALSO:

And ALL CHRIST'S Words will COME TO PASS.

Ezekiel 18:31 Cast away from you all your transgressions; whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a NEW heart and a NEW spirit: for WHY WILL YE DIE, O house of Israel?

This QUESTION has to be ANSWERED: so we will ONLY DIE ONCE, and that DEATH happens while we stand on our own two feet.

Revelation 21:5 .....I make ALL THINGS NEW ....

So there will be a NEW MT. OLIVE: that is in NEW Jerusalem, a city made of LIVING stones, and a NEW temple therein.

This NEW PLACE, where God DWELLS is YOU.

Hebrews 9:27 For it is appointed to man ONCE TO DIE; but after this the JUDGEMENT.

Remember, ALL things have been made NEW.

Christ has BUILT a NEW HOUSE.

Hebrews 3:4 For every house is builded by some man; but he that build (ready done) ALL THINGS is God.

Hebrews 3:6 But Christ as a son over HIS OWN HOUSE, whose HOUSE WE ARE ...the NEW house of God, where God dwells.

What is this NEW judgement.

1 Peter 4:17 FOR THE TIME IS COME (Christ second coming, as the Holy Ghost, to LIVE is his NEW house: YOU) that JUDGEMENT must begin at the (NEW) house of GOD.

Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was once OFFERED (in the flesh) to bear the sins of many (first coming); and unto them who LOOK FOR HIM (the thief in the night) he shall APPEAR the SECOND TIME (second coming, like a thief in the night) without sin UNTO SALVATION.

This house, our body, already has someone; the spirit of deception, that old serpent the devil, living in it; so that inhabitant has to DIE to make way for the NEW:

Colossians 1:27 ...this mystery ...Christ in you ...

Matthew 12:28 But if I (the NEW man, Christ IN YOU) by the SPIRIT of GOD (TRUTH) cast out (kill, destroy) devils (the spirit of lies and deception, that live in MY HOUSE) then the Kingdom of God HAS COME TO YOU.

Remember ALL THINGS have been made NEW, but you CANNOT see them with eyes of flesh.

God Bless YOU, the body of Christ

Amen Brother Luke:

Acts 1:9 ....and he was taken up; and a CLOUD received him (Christ the GLORIFIED BODY out of their sight;

INTO MAN: his BODY).

Christ was taken into (NEW) heaven: MAN the BODY of CHRIST.

The CLOUD: the Glory and Presence of God ABIDING in, and on, God's temple.

Exodus 40:38 For the CLOUD of the Lord was upon the tabernacle (temple of God) by day, and FIRE (Hebrew 12:29) by night .....

2 Corinthians 6:16 ....for ye are the temple of the LIVING GOD ......

Colossians 1:27 ....this MYSTERY .....Christ in you .... HIS BODY .....HIS TEMPLE .....HIS LIFE ....HIS TRUTH...

Romans 8:29 .... to be CONFORMED (by the NEW BIRTH) to the IMAGE OF CHRIST ....

2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the eyes of them WHICH BELIEVE NOT, lest the light of the GLORIOUS GOSPEL, should shine unto them.

Psalms 82:6 I (the word) have SAID; ye are gods, the children of the most high.

John 10:34 Jesus answered them, IS IT NOT WRITTEN in your law, Ye are gods?

John 10:35 If he called them gods, TO WHOM the WORD of God CAME, the scripture CANNOT be broken.

Luke 9:23 .... If any man will come after me (the second coming of Christ: IN YOU) let him will DENY HIMSELF and take up his cross (first death) and follow ME (I AM the resurrection).

Ephesians 4:4 ...ONE Spirit (the Father) ....ONE Body (Man) ......

Christ the firstborn among many BRETHREN (the image of Christ).

God Bless you (the body Christ).

This chapter; for example in verse 6 shows the importance of enduring until the end. Verse 12 asks us to take heed in case an evil heart has us depart from God. Perseverance until the end is repeated in verse 14; with the example o Israel in the desert being largely rejected in verse 15 once again hammering home the theme of this chapter.

This isn't exactly "politically correct" in reformed circles; or anywhere else for that matter (for those who always want encouraging scripture verses; for instance who we will keep anonymous). First of all; "assurance of salvation" isn't relying on "fire insurance" to keep us out of hell; and if we are elect and chosen then indeed we will heed the warnings. We need to comprehend through the indwelling Holy Spirit the hopelessness of our state; which should only be magnified after we are truly "Born Again". This almost mystic one time salvation prayer certainly can't be relied on to bring a foreign righteousness alien to our own human nature if there is no transformation of our hearts. Our society which once found it expedient to have a "Judeo-Christian" moral code has no interest in a "form of godliness denying the power thereof" ( 2 Tim. 3:5). Those who are tares will never endure to the end; and those lukewarm likewise will be stripped of any viable testimony with our whole society at such an advanced state of sinful decline ripe for judgment.

The other issue is that even among apparently doctrinally sound churches today there is little dogmatic preaching on the reality of hell. When you hear the gospel being proclaimed it is nice although rare hearing those who are emphatic about what they are saved from; which often intersects with those who are not warning if the Tribulation wrath and sufferings coming after the Rapture. When we study about Christ our living Head ( Colossians 1:18) and we see how they tried to kill him 10 times before His death as well as the Apostles we see the expected result of Godly lives

Brother S Spencer:

No one is going to change someones opinion, that's the Holy Ghost's job, we are just to preach truth.

Truth does not contradict God's words.

You don't go to heaven.

You (sinful flesh) DIED on the Cross, you, the (glorified) BODY of Christ, was raised back by the resurrection of Christ.

The Spirit (in a glorified body) goes back to God that gave it.

Christ, the glorified Body, (LIFE and TRUTH) is in man ( Colossians 1:27).

Philippians 2:13 For it is God (Christ in you) that worketh both TO WILL and TO DO his good pleasure.

Those chosen in this age, WILL BE ONE with Christ: IN MAN bringing man to GOD ( John 1:51).

Ezekiel 14:9 And if the prophet (of man) be deceived when he has spoken such a thing, I the Lord HAVE DECEIVED that prophet .....

1 Thessalonians 2:11 For this cause GOD SHALL SEND them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

The whole world is DECEIVED, only the Holy Ghost can reveal truth.

1 Thessalonians 2:12 That they ALL (everyone of us) might be damned (JUDGED, now or later, by God's words) who believe not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

1 Corinthians 15:28 And when ALL THINGS (in the ages to come) SHALL BE subdued to him, the shall the Son also himself be subject to him who put all things under him, that God may be ALL in ALL.

We either come to truth now; and become ONE with the WORD, in this age, or latter, in the ages to come. God's CHOICE.

Psalms 22:27 And all the ends of the world SHALL REMEMBER (when they are resurrected back into bodies of flesh and judged by God's words) and turn unto the Lord: for all kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee.

ALL God's WORDS will be fulfilled ( Isaiah 55:11).

God Bless You.

Brother John:

Isn't everyone a unbeliever before they are a believer?

Isn't everyone a liar?

Isn't everyone fearful?

The lake of fire is Christ.

Hebrews 12:29 For our God is a consuming fire.

If your in Christ and Christ is in you; then your in the FIRE.

Matthew 3:11 ....and he shall baptise you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire.

Malachi 3:2 And who shall abide the day of his coming (Christ in you, Colossians 1:27, baptised into his name)? and who can stand when he (TRUTH and LIFE, John 14:6) appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire and a fullers soap.

Malachi 3:3 And he shall set (in you) as a refiner and purifier of silver: that YOU may offer unto the Lord an offering in RIGHTEOUSNESS.

God Bless You.

Sister Amanda:

The purpose of it all, is to bring God's creation to TRUTH.

Creation is DECEIVED.

Sinful flesh (man) DIED ON THE CROSS; a NEW CREATION (Christ in you) arose.

1 Corinthians 12:27 Now ye are the body of Christ ....

Philippians 2:13 For it is GOD (Christ in you) that worketh both TO WILL and TO DO his good pleasure.

Colossians 1:27 ...this mystery ....Christ IN YOU .....

John 17:23 I in THEM, and THOU in ME, that they may be PERFECT (Christ is the only one perfect) in one .....

Psalms 82:6 I have said, ye are gods, the children of the most high.

Philippians 1:29 For UNTO YOU it is GIVEN in the BEHALF of Christ, not only to BELIEVE on HIM (the word), but also to suffer for his sake.

Romans 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature WAITETH for the MANIFESTATION of the Sons of God.

Why is creation WAITING?

Obadiah 1:21 And saviours (God's SONS, Christ and his brothers) shall come on mount Zion to JUDGE the mount of Esau, and the kingdom SHALL BE the LORD'S.

Psalms 149:9 To execute upon them the JUDGEMENT written, this HONOUR hath all his saints.

Romans 8:21 For the creature itself SHALL BE DELIVERED from the bondage of corruption (death and the grave) into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

1 Corinthians 15:28 And when all things have been subdued unto him, then shall the son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that GOD may be ALL in ALL.

Billions of people; dead and in the grave, are AWAITING the arrival of Christ and his brothers at the resurrection of the dead: to be brought to TRUTH.

Proverbs 16:6 By MERCY and TRUTH iniquity is purged .....

BELIEF will judge UNBELIEF.

God Bless YOU, his body.

Hello again One Eighty. Looking at our comments both now & previous, I think the problem I have is understanding the phrase you use, "I believe Jesus is an EXTENSION (creation) of God Who is Spirit."

I don't use the word 'creation' to refer to Christ's appearance, as that denotes that God created Jesus, as One Who had no previous existence (e.g. Adam & Eve were created, the angels were created, animals, etc. as well). Whereas Jesus was never created as He is the Word incarnate (made flesh); i.e. the Word was always in God's Being & God took His Word and embodied His Word with humanity. The Word, though in human form, never ceased to be vitally connected to God, i.e. the Word was always Divine (holding the Divine Nature), but for the sake of taking upon Himself flesh, for suffering & dying, Jesus made Himself of no reputation ( Philippians 2:6-8): Greek for that is 'ekenosen', emptied Himself of His full Divinity - which He had to of course, to become man with human limitations, aging & death.

You've also said that "Jesus is an EXTENSION of God" & I think I can understand your meaning with this, but I wouldn't use 'creation' for Jesus, because how can a created One also be the Creator & Sustainer of all things ( Ephesians 3:9; Colossians 1:13-17)? So, I'm unsure whether we're saying the same things & using specific words to describe Jesus' manifestation, or whether we need to discuss further what I've shared about the eternal Nature of Christ Jesus. Blessings.

Brother Jesse:

I agree with your comments.

We have to surrender (die) our life to Christ.

Do we have life, in and of ourselves, NO? Most don't understand this.

1 Corinthians 4:11 For we which LIVE are always delivered unto death for Jesus sake, that the LIFE OF JESUS might be made manifest in our mortal bodies (as well as in our IMMORTAL bodies in the AGE TO COME).

To repent means to change our way of UNDERSTANDING.

To repent would be to agree with God's word.

John 14:6 I AM the way, the Truth, and the LIFE.

Colossians 1:27 ....this mystery ....Christ in you .....

Philippians 2:13 For it is GOD (in you) that worketh both TO WILL and TO DO his good pleasure.

Christ (the first man) UNDERSTOOD this ....THOU in ME....the Father did EVERYTHING through Christ.

Man has to come to TRUTH (Christ in you): Man does EVERYTHING ....I in THEM .....through Christ.

This is the great DECEPTION: No KNOWLEDGE of the WORKS of God.

Hebrews 2:8 .....For now we see NOT YET all things put under him.

Man's time table IS NOT God's timetable.

Ephesians 2:7 That in the AGES TO COME .....

Isaiah 11:9 ....for the earth shall be full of the KNOWLEDGE of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

Isaiah 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I PLEASE, and it shall prosper in the things whereto I SENT IT.

1 Corinthians 15:28 And when all things (in the ages to come) have been subdued to him, then shall the Son also be subject unto him who put all things under him, that GOD may be ALL in ALL.

God Bless ALL on our pilgrimage to TRUTH.

Indeed brother John, just as we are bound to mature biologically, so we must endeavour, by the Grace of God, to mature spiritually: that we "might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding; That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God" ( Colossians 1:9,10).

Just on this matter about 'Jesus being a creation of God', Brad. We see a couple of phrases used in the Bible: 'firstborn' and 'only begotten'.

'Firstborn' (Gk. prototokos, first to give birth to, firstborn) as seen in Romans 8:29, "the firstborn among many brethren", where Paul applies the meaning to Jesus being the first to bring humanity & divinity into one (i.e. Jesus the Word (God) united with humanity (flesh); and to us who are saved (i.e. humanity (flesh) united with the Spirit (God)).

And also in Colossians 1:15, "the firstborn of every creature", referring to Christ's highest rank & full rights bestowed upon Him by the Father over all creation; & that creation came into being by His Word Jesus & through Him, being held together by the Word of His Power (vv16,17 & Hebrews 1:3).

'Only begotten' (Gk. monogenes, unique, one of a kind) as seen in John 3:16, Hebrews 5:5, 1 John 4:9, etc. Could we say that Jesus was a created Being by God, as one would describe a creation of a baby in the womb or a potter creating a vessel from a lump of clay? The use of 'monogenes' strongly suggests that Jesus wasn't created, simply because He already existed within God's Person as the Word of God. But God did something not done before - a unique birth: that which always existed came into the World in another form - Mary's womb was merely the delivery point for prophecy's fulfilment & for Jesus' identification with His people. God could just as well have zapped His Word into flesh & onto Earth, but God had His Own special Plan.

One could use the word 'created' in this respect as you've done, but that might then bring on the thought that Jesus was a created Being without an eternal existence. I feel 'monogenes' satisfies the uniqueness of Jesus' pre- & post-incarnation Presence.