Discuss Colossians 2 Page 4

Thank you Mishael.

I know I was moved by the Holy Spirit when I wrote it. I could not take the credit, but Glory to God.

Since I was saved, I tried the best to understand the Bible and claimed the treasures of wisdom and knowledge as Colossians 2:3 says.

I came back for at least ten. I pray there are more. This is a parallel of what the Lord says..Genesis18:23-33.

Those who have ears, let them hear what the Lord says.

Agape.

Hello Michael K N,

Isaiah 40:1, 2Corinthians 1:3-22, 1Thessalonians 5:15-21,

Romans 15, 2Timothy 2:3,

Philippians 4:8,

I thank you for sharing your hardship & trusting us here with it.

I myself have suffered much as many of us have. I share scriptures in hopes to give you strength, help in endurance, encouragement.

Paul while suffering from being beaten, Colossians 2:11, Acts 22:25, stoned, 2Corinthians 11:25-27, in prisoned, 2Timothy 2:9-15, accused of sedition Acts 24:2,5,27, in context Acts 24, is this Paul who said I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me._. Philippians 4:12,13

Hebrews 13:3, Luke 17:25, 1Peter 4:12-19,

Bible has the final authority in all manner of faith and practice. I encourage everyone to read only what God says, which is forever settled-The Bible is the finish revelation of God. Maybe you need to memorize the Bible then read whatever book you want to read to know they are in line with the word of God. The Bible is complete to show you current circumstances and listen only to saved fellow believers' advices.

2 Peter 1:19-21

Jeremiah 23:29-31

Jeremiah 14:14-15

1 Corinthians 13:9-10

2 Corinthians 5:7

(For we walk by faith, not by sight:) If you want to see 20/20 vision, it is all written in the Bible.

Titus 1:9-11

Beware:

Matthew 16:6

Matthew 16:11-12

Mark 8:15

Luke 12:1

Colossians 2:8

2 Timothy 3:13

Revelation 20:10

Glory to God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

I did a thorough study on when Jesus died. It was very interesting that men follows the traditions of men. Paul already warned us in Colossians 2:8

I personally confirmed that Jesus died on Wednesday. Just as the pattern of a wonderful God has created a day, so understanding that a day starts in the evening and the morning Genesis 1:5. Then next a great God gave the Jews a great and only sign of Jonah 1:17 and Matthew 12:40 a prophetic sign of when Jesus will die, buried and resurrected for 3 days and 3 nights. Our God is such a great Intelligent Designer so that the true believers will not be deceived tossed to and fro ( Ephesians 4:14) by any so-called Religious Christian Deceivers. So by knowing this you will know who is lying to you and to stay away from this cult. Revelation 18:4

It was also a perfect match on the day of Passover and the Sabbath. Noticed the day Mary went to the tomb and her preparation of her spices. I will leave a room for you to study.

So anybody says Jesus died on Friday, it is fake news they are making you a merchandised 2 Peter 2:3; Revelation 18:11; Revelation 18:12 Stay away immediately if they do not listen to the truth. The truth will set you free. John 14:6. The greatest and intelligent thing God said is that there is no other interpretation in the word of God. So if you do not get it you must be a lost person and not saved or just not reading your Bible enough. I do want ALL to be saved 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. I just hate the Nicolaitans (2X) Revelations 2:6; Revelation 2:15. Beware of many modern Pharisees.

Main thing is that we true believers 1 John4:2-3; 2 John 1:7 should not be divided 1 Corinthians 1:10; Luke 11:17. We need each other Romans 12:4; 1 Corinthians 12:12 & 20

We are truly in the last days. Psalms 2:1-12. God wants everybody to understand The Word of God. Many of you will not believe. It is expected. Many will meet Jesus in the cloud 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and 1 Corinthians 15:50-58. See you soon.

Let's see what else God's Word has to say in regards to your snarky comment against Jesus.

A few verses before in 2 Peter 1:11 it says "Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ." Do you believe Jesus is your Lord and Savior?

Do you know what "Lord" means?

The same old straw man fallacy shows up again that God the Son isn't God the Father, but no one is claiming that. This attack on Jesus is repeated so much it seems to fall into the disingenuous and lie territory.

God is powerful enough to do what you don't comprehend as a man. Whether you comprehend that or not doesn't change reality or the truth. The Bible says that in John 1 the 'word was God' and was there at the beginning, so do you believe it?

More of God's truth about God:

Luke 4:34 - "Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art; the Holy One of God."

Luke 4:12 after satan put Jesus to the test Jesus says "Do not put the Lord your God to the test."

Isaiah 7:14 - Jesus is called Immanuel which means "God with us"

Isaiah 42:5 "Thus saith God the LORD..."

Isaiah 42:8 "I am the LORD: that is my name..."

Hebrews 1:8 "But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom."

Godhead:

Colossians 2:9

Acts 17:29

Romans 1:20

John 1:18

God is we and us plural:

Genesis 1:26

If the Bible flat out said Jesus is God like it does would you believe it?

Where are the verses that say Jesus isn't God the Son? (none)

Where are the verses saying Jesus IS God the Son (above, numerous)

And where are the verses where Jesus verbally denied being God? (none)

"I AM" John 8:56-59

John 10:30

John 8:19

Philippians 2:5-8

2 Corinthians 5:19

John 1:3

Matthew 28:19

1 Peter 1:2

2 Corinthians 13:14

Deuteronomy 6:4

John 14:10

John 20:28

1 John 2:22-24

Matthew 1:23-25

Colossians 2:9

Acts 17:29

Romans 1:20

Isaiah 7:14

Hebrews 1:8

Isaiah 44:6

Isaiah 43:11

John 17:5

John 17:21

J halli,

(Part 1)

In Colossians Chapter 2, Paul addresses a few major groups of people that are not only in Christian cult form today, but they actually began back in Paul's day. The first group that we're introduced to in Colossians 2:8-10 is Gnosticism. Gnosko is the Greek word for knowledge. The Gnostics were people who had "special" knowledge beyond the scriptures, beyond anything man has known.

The second group are the legalists. And they are found in Colossiand 2:11-17. Now the legalists said that it's okay to believe in Jesus as the Messiah, but the men had to be physically circumcised.

The third group is found in Colossians 2:18-19, and they are the Mystics. We have Mysticism around today. We have Mystic Christians. Their main emphasis is that they receive the truth from God through visions and revelation.



And then the fourth group (Asceticism) which has the answer to your question, these are the Ascetics. The ascetics believed that one can purify the spirit by punishing the body. Now stop and think about that, because this is where all the false teaching gets exposed. How is me punishing my body doing any good for my spirit? They are two different realms. If I punish my body, I'm hurting my body. That's it! I don't get more spiritual by punishing my physical body.

Colossians 2:20-23 deals with Asceticism. Verse 20 -21 says, "Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, (Touch not; taste not; handle not;"

So they said that you attain spirituality by self-neglect. "Don't touch that, or don't taste that! Paul in a couple of places said that the kingdom of God is not in meat and drink, but in spirit. The food comes in and the food goes out. That's it. It never touches your spirit. It has nothing to do with it! There isn't anything spiritual about it whatsoever!

I am running out of space, so I will send a Part 2

Human nature has not changed even today after reading this chapter. Sad to see people here be like a modern Pharisees. Read your Bible. Many are deceived. Stay in prayers and Colossians 2:1:23 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving. Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

1peter 3: 20-21

8 souls were saved by water.

The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Romans 6:3-8, Know ye not that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in the newness of life.

For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him.

Also

Mark 16:16-17

Colossians 2:11-12

Also in the old testament the parting of the red sea was a type of baptism.

Peter said be baptized for the remission of sins.

In the book of Acts all were water baptized in the name of Jesus Christ /unto the Lord.

You are welcome. Please allow me to make myself be clear. Please read the entire chapter of John 1. John1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. When you see capital letter "W" Word in the Bible it means Jesus Christ. John 1:14. The lower case "w" word means the Bible. You cannot come to God the Father but by Jesus Christ John 14:6-7; For through him (Jesus Christ) we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. Ephesians 2:18; it is a mystery Colossians 2:2-3; God gave to Jesus everything we need to know Revelation 1:1. In conclusion, There is one God the Father, one God the Son the Lord Jesus Christ, and one God The Holy Spirit. Three persons if you will, manifested from ONE GOD. Thank you so much for your question, I know how hard it is to many people understanding this concept, for I now have to be careful explaining it to you as well. Very happy for the opportunity. Glory to God.

More verses to prove Jesus is God. I will pray that you will be guided by the Holy Spirit in your journey to God. Agape.

1 Corinthians 1:10

Romans 16:25

1 Corinthians 1:9

2 Corinthians 8:6

2 Corinthians 1:19

2 Corinthians 4:6

2 Corinthians 5:18

2 Corinthians 13:14

Ephesians 1:17

Ephesians 3:9

Philippians 2:11

Revelation 1:5

Revelation 1:9

Dear Nats:

Even if I say Giannis has explained it very well, if you not "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost." 2 Peter 1:20-1. I can only perceived by reading "Nats if Jesus is God" you are still searching if Jesus Christ is God. I would be happy to show you how to be saved and obtain the Holy Spirit. Only then the verses you have inquired about will make sense to you because the Holy Spirit will guide you to the truth.

In John 10:36 Jesus Christ himself said He is the Son of God. If you read the entire conversation between the unbelieving Jews and Jesus Christ they will not believe no matter how anybody explained it to them. It is already prophesied in Isaiah 6:9-10, Isaiah 42:20; Jeremiah 5:21; Acts 28:27; Roman's 11.8

In John 14:28 the situation was that Jesus was about to fulfill another prophesy and that was to die on the cross for the sins of the world 1 John 2:2. 1 Corinthians 15:1-4; Colossians 2:2-3. When Jesus was buried and rose again the third day according to the scriptures, Jesus fulfilled what God the Father sent Jesus to do on earth. The mystery is that God the Father is greater than Jesus the Son of God. Remember Jesus came to Virgin Mary from God the Father. Then Jesus has to go unto the Father after Jesus rose the third day so the Comforter (i.e. Holy Spirit) will be fulfilled. John 14:16; John 14:26; John 15:26; John 16:7. There is only one God. Romans 3:30; 1 Corinthians 8:6; Ephesians 4:6; 1 Timothy 2:5; James 2:19. Hope this helps and that you be saved soon. Good question.

1 Thessalonians 3:10. I prayed and re-read the Bible. 2 Timothy 2:15. Matthew 24:4-5. If you are guided by the Holy Spirit of God, Colossians 2:2-3. Grow in grace and Charity 2 Peter 3:18; 1 Corinthians 13:4-9. Colossians 3:14. Many of you 2 Timothy 3:10. Galatians 6:6. Galatians 6:10. All scriptures tie out-Old Testament and New Testament. God directed my paths to be a very honest Corporate Auditor on earth to testify that the Bible is true and indeed cannot lie. Men lie. Every word in KJV Bible you can follow stories upon stories for us to know and learn what to do. There is no man can pervert the word of God, except you are lost. I pray that all be saved. Read the Bible and be guided by the Holy Spirit; Cover to cover are blessed and believe 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. All scriptures directed in the end to The blood of Jesus Christ for the world salvation. 1 Thessalonians 5:21-22

Revelation 3:2. Thank you for the opportunities to communicate through written comments to some of you. Thank you for the website Agape.

Hi GiGi,

I enjoy reading your posts, you wear your heart on your sleeve, a good thing. I know you are passionate about the triune God we disagree but please take my reply as done in love. I don't know if you have gone back and dug deep into the history of this creed, you may.

How many people (1000s) who most likely believed in Christ were killed on behalf of this creed. I strain to understand how God would be behind something so harsh and cruel and the vicious way people were killed for one word, heresy. Even today people are not killed but are told they are not saved and cannot be saved.

I agree that the beginning is the beginning of creation before anything was. I do not know how to reply to you because you have said before and, in this post, that not believing in a triune God is heretical which comes from strong orthodox teaching, and I do not believe anything can go above the salvation in the doctrine of Christ.

So out of love, I will not ask but one question that you or someone else may shine a light on.

The word Godhead is in the bible only three times, Acts 17:29 the Greek word Theios, definition divine, divine being Romans 1:20 the Greek word theiots meaning divine nature and Colossians 2:9 the Greek word theots meaning deity.

How can three Greek words with meanings; divine, divine being, divine nature, and deity that in context work with their original meaning be translated as Godhead? What I have studied the first known use of godhead was in the 13th century. Maybe you are someone else who can help?

God bless,

RLW

Part 3

So the transition was that Paul's epistles from Romans to Philemon depicted details of the rest of the Book of Acts from Jesus Christ blinding Paul in Damascus to the last chapter of Book of Acts. All Apostles are important. But because I am not a Jew, and God had chosen Paul to be the Apostle to the Gentiles, which I am, I believe God is telling me to read the writings of Paul. The Gospel revealed to Paul is in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. The difference between the early Apostles is that they were preaching who Jesus was VS Paul revelation from God was how that Christ died for our sins according to scriptures that he was buried and rose again the third day according to the scriptures. Why emphasized scriptures twice? Because we are talking about the same And only One God who manifested in three persons-God the Father, The God Son Lord Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit (Trinity). Jesus death on the cross is a gift of grace for those who believe and justified through faith in Jesus blood, which I think Peter and the rest of the Apostles understood later through Paul Galatians 1:18. You see once you are sealed with the Holy Spirit of God you just know what to do. This I know I will not and refuse to think and accuse people today that they are anti-Christ if they are in any Christian Religion. They may have different interpretations, and traditional belief, but we have been warned about this in Colossians 2:8. That is fine with me if you do not believe the same way I understand the Bible. I just want to have a Godly conversation with anyone, for I am just another person who is trying to find the true God teachings in order to please the one and Holy God. To that effect, hoping that many will find the truth as well. Then in the end we all give Glory to God.

John 1:1

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

Who is the Word?

John 1:14-15 says the Word is Jesus. Does anyone deny that the Word is Jesus?

If someone believes John 1:14, then do they believe John 1:1

"...the Word was God."

"...[Jesus] was God."

JESUS.

WAS.

GOD.

John 1:1

This is God's Word.

Some here are saying "Jesus was NOT God" despite John 1:1 clearly saying Jesus WAS God. I'd like to know exactly how someone can believe in all other verses of the Bible except this one? If something WAS something, that seems to offer little room for interpretation. It means it's the same, does it not? So, if something WAS something, how does someone twist this into believing it says something WAS NOT something?

It then must be asked: since it takes so much effort to take a sentence something WAS something to turn it into: something WAS NOT something, what is the true underlying motive here? Does God's Word carry the most weight and influence or does something else?

This is eerily similar to Gen 3:4 where satan denied what God said and claimed that they shall NOT surely die. Satan loves opposites and this seems to have his signature, does it not?

I welcome any perspective I'm missing, but do not consider anything other Bible verses as valid evidence. God's Word is all that matters and because there's already numerous verses supporting that Jesus is God like John 1:1 then that is what is true. Lastly, why not just pray and ask God directly to know the truth? Genuinely ask!

1 John 5:7-8

John 10:30

John 8:19

Genesis 1:26

Genesis 11:6-7

(plural "us")

Philippians 2:5-8

2 Corinthians 5:19

John 1:3

Matthew 28:19

1 Peter 1:2

2 Corinthians 13:14

Deuteronomy 6:4

John 14:10

John 20:28

1 John 2:22-24

Matthew 1:23-25

Colossians 2:9

Acts 17:29

Romans 1:20

Isaiah 7:14

Hebrews 1:8

Isaiah 44:6

Isaiah 43:11

Hi Doug,

This is an interesting logical argument. I find that in 1 Peter 3:22. Let's assume for argument's sake that your conclusion is correct and you get 1 point for this.

But for every verse you cite, there are even more that say that Jesus IS God, like John 1:1 saying the "Word was God" and verse 14 that Jesus is the Word.

This could continue to play out and you can cite any number of verses to support your position, but again we don't run out of very compelling verses saying that Jesus is God.

Let's say that it's a dead even race. 30 verses suggesting Jesus isn't vs 30 verses suggesting He is.

Then what? Which do you choose to believe?

I don't know if you've gone through this exercise or not, but I now have a spoiler: someone will run out of verses supporting that Jesus "isn't" God long before the verses supporting He IS God. Not only that, but each of the verses commonly cited to claim that Jesus "isn't" God require some extra creative interpretation and human logic whereas the verses supporting the other side can be read and interpreted more literally. Not only that, but there's logical explanations for why Jesus called His Father God. The main reason is that He temporarily became a human being and limited His power. Phil 2:6-7. So, yes, as a man, He prayed to His Father and called Him God. So, all verses must be considered as a whole, not cherry picked in order to have understanding about the Godhead and I admit it is hard to comprehend as we don't have anything like it in on earth. But perhaps like an orange with seeds, pulp, skin. Someone calls pulp an orange, and it is.

1 John 5:7-8

John 10:30

John 8:19

Genesis 1:26

, Genesis 11:6-7 (plural "us")

Philippians 2:5-8

2 Corinthians 5:19

John 1:3

Matthew 28:19

1 Peter 1:2

2 Corinthians 13:14

Deuteronomy 6:4

John 14:10

John 20:28

1 John 2:22-24

Matthew 1:23-25

Colossians 2:9

Acts 17:29

Romans 1:20

Isaiah 7:14

Hebrews 1:8

Isaiah 44:6

Isaiah 43:11

Romans 6:3-7 (Part 2)

I can get water baptized until I am water logged and it isn't going to do anything for me spiritually. It's just water on the outside of the body. Water baptism cannot produce the ministry Spirit of God. And if I look through this chapter, it's talking about being delivered from sin, dying to sin, and being born into the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ. You don't do that through water. It's through the Spirit of God!



Spirit baptism, or the baptism of the Holy Spirit, is the name of the ministry of Jesus Christ. I know the term has been misused today so a lot of people try and stay away from the term "Baptism of the Spirit." But in Matthew 3:11, John the Baptist said "I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance."

John's baptism is different than Christian baptism. His was for the Jews that they would repent at the coming of Messiah. He says I baptize you water unto repentance, (not remission of sin), but He that comes after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear, He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire. This is Jesus' ministry, to baptize us with His Spirit. The fire represents judgment. But we become a member of the body of Christ the moment we are saved and that is the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

In Galatians 3:27, it says "For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ, have put on Christ." So the baptism is parallel to and synonymous with putting on Christ, salvation, and receiving Christ. I have to understand this from Paul's perspective. Paul is the one that taught about Spiritual baptism being salvation, and the time that you come into the body of Christ. It is the Lord's ministry, and it is sad that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is misunderstood today and mistaught which takes away from the very function for which it is supposed to serve.

To be fair, I am going to look some more at Colossians 2:12. I may still be on the fence with that one. I hope you have a great day!

Hello again brother,

Here is why I believe Colossians 2:12 and Romans 6:3-7 are referring to spirit baptism. First of all we are told earlier on in Colossians Chapter 2 that we are circumcised by Christ by the putting off of the body of the sins of the flesh.

But now it tells us that we are also buried with him in baptism, wherein also you are risen with him through the faith of the operation, (or energizing of God), who has raised him from the dead.

Paul said in 1 Corinthians 12:13 that we are all baptized by one Spirit into the body of Christ. When a person is born of the Spirit of God, it is called the baptism of the Holy Spirit. It is the time when you are cleansed from your sin, and that is our identification with Christ. It is not water baptism that saves. Peter argued that in his first letter in Chapter 4 that it's not the pouring of water over the flesh, but it's the answer of a good conscience towards God. So for me, it's spiritual, not physical.

But what is baptism supposed to be for? Water baptism is a testimony of the inward work of God's Spirit. Can a person get baptized and still not be saved? Yes! I think we both agree that water baptism is an outward expression, a testimony of the inward work of God's Spirit. In other words, I am baptized by God's Spirit. That's the coming of Christ into my life, the cleansing.

And I get water baptized in order to be a testimony that I have experienced the Spiritual baptism by Christ. Like I said, I can be unsaved and still get baptized in a religious ceremony. But it doesn't mean a thing. It's just water. It's not spiritual. 1 Corinthians 12:13 tells us that we're all baptized by one Spirit into the body.

I'm running out of space. I'll send my thoughts on Romans 6:3-7 in a separate post.

Hi Giannis,

I don't believe we are very far off on our belief about water baptism and Spirit baptism. I do agree that water baptism is symbolic, and baptism of the Holy Spirit not symbolic. Water baptism just symbolizes an action (Salvation) that has already taken place. I'm not sure if you were trying to explain that to me, but I am in agreement with that part.

My reasoning for believing Colossians 2:12 and Romans 6:3-7 are referring to Spirit baptism, not water, would take much more space to explain that what we have here. If you need me to explain, and you are willing to read a much longer post, I can do so. Again, not to debate or change your mind, but to give my understanding.

You posted John 3:3, but I'm sure you meant Luke 3:3. This is where we might differ. First of all, John's baptism is not believer's baptism. It has nothing to do with Christian baptism. This was for the Jews. It was a requirement for them. Luke Chapter 7 tells us that it was a requirement that they go through the baptism of John in order to express repentance and they are ready to surrender to the Messiah.

Luke Chapter 7 tells us that it was God's council that all the Pharisees be baptized by John in order to receive Messiah. And he says they rejected the baptism of John. So it was a requirement that they do both. They had to go through John's baptism and be born of the Spirit. That's for the Jews only.

But John's baptism is not Christian baptism. It was a baptism of repentance for the Jewish people only, and there's a reason for that. Every year, the Jewish people would go down to the Sea of Galilee or to the Jordan River and be baptized. It is called the MIKVAH or MIKVEH. For the believer, when we get baptized in what we call believer's baptism, (water involved), it is supposed to represent and testify to the inward work of Christ of salvation. It is after we are saved.

Well, it looks like I'll need a little more space anyway. I'll respond to your last part in a separate post.

Hellow Jesse.

Thanks for your reply.

As far as the verses Colossians 2:12 and Romans 6:3-7 are concerned, why do you think it'a about Spirit's baptism? Spirit's baptism is not something symbolic for something else as bapt. in water is. One doesn't do anything, simply God sends His Spirit to dwell in him. There is nothing there to symbolize for, I think. And certainly one receiving the HS can not in any case be taken as the burial and ressurection of Jesus.

As you said baptize in greek means to dip, immerse. The Jews practised many baptisms, hands, pots everything. Why? It means to dip them in water just to clean them. That is why John's baptism was for repemting and spiritual cleansing. John 3:3 "And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;" Please pay attention to that "for the remission of sins". If John's baptism was for the remission of sins, how do some of us believe that the christian baptism is not necassary for salvation?

Nice to hear from you again, we may disagree to some things but is nice to talk to you.

Blessings

Hello, Giannis,

I would agree that 1 Corinthians 15:29 is referring to them performing water baptism as a substitute for the dead who were never water baptized for one reason or another. However, I don't think I can agree that the other two verses you gave ( Colossians 2:12, and Romans 6:3-7) are speaking of water baptism. I understand those verses to be referring to the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

I do agree on the symbolism of water baptism. Water baptism is an expression, a testimony, supposedly of what God did in my spirit when I got saved. It is called the baptism of the Holy Spirit. And yes, I am in agreement with you that the word baptize (BAPTO) means to dip or immerse. Secondly, the word baptism is related to two things, one is cleansing, but it is mostly related to identification.

That is one of the things about Christian baptism, water baptism, is that when you are baptized, it is your testimony of your identification and the inward work of God's Spirit in your life. The second thing that the word baptism represents is cleansing. It was used religiously to represent cleansing.

In the book of Hebrews, the writer of Hebrews says that the Jewish people had many baptisms. And they would practice this, especially the washing of hands. But the Jews would baptize everything, pots, pans, you name it!

Blessings to you also!

Hellow brother Jesse

Brother Chris in one of his posts said that that verse was not clear to him, so I posted my understanding of it. I copy and paste my post to him.

"My opinion about 1 Corinthians 15:29 "Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?"

My belief is that it talks about baptism in water in the name of Jesus. Be patient and I will explain myself.

Firstly lets read what the scripture says about baptism in water (what it really symbolizes)

Colossians 2:12

"Buried with him (Jesus) in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead."

Romans 6:3-7

"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? (Baptism in greek means immersion, submersion)

Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

For he that is dead is freed from sin."

One may argue that the above verses are not about baptism in water, but for me their is no doubt.

So Baptism in water symbolizes burial of our old sinful person in the grave (of the water tank) and the rising up (resurrection of) a new person ready to follow a new holly life, exactly like Jesus was burried after crucifixion and was raised up from the dead.

But if Jesus was never resurrected from the dead, baptism would be in the name of a dead Jesus, that is in the name of the dead/for the dead. Ther isn't any benefit for us in such a case. If Jesus was never resurrected, we are still in our sins and we have no eternal life."

GBU

Hi Chris

My opinion about 1 Corinthians 15:29 "Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?"

My belief is that it talks about baptism in water in the name of Jesus. Be patient and I will explain myself.

Firstly lets read what the scripture says about baptism in water (what it really symbolizes)

Colossians 2:12

"Buried with him (Jesus) in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead."

Romans 6:3-7

"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? (Baptism in greek means immersion, submersion)

Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

For he that is dead is freed from sin."

One may argue that the above verses are not about baptism in water, but for me their is no doubt.

So Baptism in water symbolizes burial of our old sinful person in the grave (of the water tank) and the rising up (resurrection of) a new person ready to follow a new holly life, exactly like Jesus was burried after crucifixion and was raised up from the dead.

But if Jesus was never resurrected from the dead, baptism would be in the name of a dead Jesus, that is in the name of the dead/for the dead. Ther isn't any benefit for us in such a case. If Jesus was never resurrected, we are still in our sins and we have no eternal life.

GBU

I agree again David. Nice to find someone who know facts from the Bible only and not from any historical men or religious denominations. I do believe in the mystery of Christ in you. When God open my heart and eyes to the truth He immediately told me to grow in Charity and grace. Unbelievably started memorizing many verses until I fall asleep. These are a few. I love them all. I will just keep memorizing.

"That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;" Colossians 2:2 KJV "In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge." Colossians 2:3 KJV. Rejoice evermore my friend.

The Scriptures about the Godhead. Sometimes called "Let Us..." in some passages. These scriptures are evidence of all 3 persons of the Godhead speaking to each other.

Genesis 1:26, 3:22, 11:7

Isaiah 6:8

Romans 1:20*

Colossians 2:9

Acts 17:27-30

1 John 5:7

John 10:30

"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and GODHEAD so that they are without excuse:"

Genesis 1:1

The Father purposes

The Word (Jesus) speaks. ( John 1:1)

The Spirit (Holy Spirit) executes the spoken word. Action.

All working together. Jesus came to show us the Father, as Emmanuel.

Matthew 1:23

Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God WITH US. [Jesus]

{Comment} Jesus came to bring to each born again believer; the baptism and the in-dwelling of the Holy Spirit.

[ Genesis 1:2, John 3:6, Acts 2:1-3, John 16: 7-15]

Upon being born again, Jesus gives the Holy Spirit to teach us scripture, comfort us, convict us of sin, enable us to be witnesses. Stay in the New Testament at first.

Mishael

We are under the dispensation of Grace now! Since Jesus death, buriel and resurrection we are no longer under the dispensation of law. Christ fulfilled the law in every way.( Colossians 2:14) Blotting out the handwriting of Ordinances that was against us(pertains to the Law of Moses, which was Gods standard of Righteousness that man could not reach).which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way nailing it to His Cross.

Steve,

You state: "Paul teaches the opposite of what you said for this age Col 2:16"

It scripture reads:

Colossians 2:16

"Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:"

This scripture is a "perfect example" of being incorrectly understood. Many like you, try to use this scripture to invaladate the argument for keeping the Sabbath today.

In the period that Paul lived almost everyone ate and drank and honored and kept the holidays, and the sabbath days - including the Holy Sabbath Day. Paul was telling them to continue keeping these beliefs intact, and ignore what others are saying, and he tells them to not worry about those that may judge them for keeping these customs in place.

Read and Believe!

Hi Phil.

I concur Steve.

The Law was given to Israel. The law given was to convict us of sin.

2 Corinthians 3:6-14.

Galatians 3:11-13.

Romans 7:4-5.

Romans 7:9-10.

Some aspects of the Law such as the Sabbath pointed to Christ work on the Cross that would free us from the curse of the Law. " Death"

Colossians 2:11-17.

In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the SABBATH DAYS:

HERE'S. THE KEY IN VERSE 17.

Vs.17) "Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ."

Israel "as a nation" regects Christ work on the cross so as of now the have yet to join in that rest.( Yet they honor the Sabbath!)

Please study Hebrews 4:2-11.

That rest comes after salvation. Not to obtain it.

If one wants to observe the sabbath go ahead, but if you do it to earn salvation you fall in the same unbelief as Israel.

The Galatians was warned of the same thing in Galatians 5:4. "Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace."

Salvation is not for sell its a gift. Ephesians 2:8-9. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

I hope this helps.

God bless.

The verse "the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath" ( Matthew 12:8) does seem to show that there is a justification for it to now be the day of rest and worship. We see evidence elsewhere of disciples meeting the "first day of the week" in Acts 15:30 and 20:7. Collections are also to be made on that day according to 1 Corinthians 16:9; but in that case it seemed to be specifically for Paul and it doesn't seem to indicate that was when they would always fellowship together. Colossians 2:16 could also relate to not disputing when we meet together. It doesn't seem any demand is to meet on Sunday; and Messianic Jews still do so on Saturday.

The verse about the Sabbath being made for man indicates that there is a superior principle involved. Namely; those things called "works" on the Sabbath that were added laws to the original statute were not to be considered legitimate. Whereby; a legitimate need such as eating; feeding animals; or healing men were frequently used as examples of how those principles of mercy; love and justice were to supercede superficial legalistic practices. Thus; Jesus would quote the scripture about Daniel and the shewbread as justification for His actions and that of the disciples. Those laws that were in effect specifically for the Jews were eventually superceded by grafting in of Jews and Gentiles; and since Christ is God in the flesh honoring Pentecost (which had a significant prophetic indication of Christ's fulfillment at the Ascencion after the Resurrection) we now are under grace. We are now under a New Covenant; which allows us to fulfill the law as He ever lives to intercede for us and His Spirit remains within us. (see Hebrews 7:25; Ephesians 1:13-14). There is no Temple; and animal sacrifices hence Jews have no way to follow former purification rites. We can choose to rest on Saturdays; or Sundays as I see it-just as we can still celebrate the Passover. Obviously there is much controversy here on this subject.

Anybody noticed how the seven churches are mentioned in the Bible? This verse is the only verse that speaks to me personally because I (we) actually have not seen Paul's face in the flesh.

Colossians 2:1

For I would that ye knew what great conflict I have for you, and for them at Laodicea, and for as many as have not seen my face in the flesh;

Then if you read the entire chapter, it is telling us the most important thing we need to remember"knit together in love".

In conclusion, sometime in the life of an individual we have been one of these churches. The last church of Laodicean gave me an indication that Paul great conflict seems to be reflected in the different of opinions one may expresses in the comments in this Bible site.

For example, the need for water baptism to received the Holy Ghost. Whereby Peter had proven that you received the Holy Spirit when you believed in what Jesus did on the cross. Paul even corrected Peter on this subject. Unless one believed in vain?

Do you understand the same way about the churches (i.e. The Body of Christ, The Bride of Christ, the sons of God, fellow heirs, fellow believers, the saints who are still alive)?

The Scriptures about the Godhead. Sometimes called "Let Us..." in some passages. These scriptures are evidence of all 3 persons of the Godhead speaking to each other.

Genesis 1:26, 3:22, 11:7

Isaiah 6:8

Romans 1:20

Colossians 2:9

Acts 17:27-30

1 John 5:7

John 10:30

"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and GODHEAD so that they are without excuse:"

Genesis 1:1

The Father purposes

The Word (Jesus) speaks. ( John 1:1)

The Spirit (Holy Spirit) executes the spoken word. Action.

All working together. Jesus came to show us the Father, as Emmanuel.

Matthew 1:23

Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God WITH US. [Jesus]

{Comment} Jesus came to bring to each born again believer; the baptism and the in-dwelling of the Holy Spirit.

[ Genesis 1:2, John 3:6, Acts 2:1-3, John 16: 7-15]

Upon being born again, Jesus gives the Holy Spirit to teach us scripture, comfort us, convict us of sin, enable us to be witnesses. Stay in the New Testament at first.