Discuss Colossians 2 Page 8

Amen Rick, well written. Yet, the matter of "the cross removing the curse of the law" & "after being born again start with a clean slate", might have bearing on what a believer should do when confronted with the Law in the Bible. Most will 'play safe' & want to obey the Law because it's in the Word after all, & the right thing to do before God. But the Scriptures tell us in Galatians 3:10,13, that the Law which is Holy from God, now becomes a curse to those still under it or those who put themselves there. And that Christ has redeemed us from that curse & by extension, has set us free ( Galatians 5:1).

Maybe, folk haven't thought it through when they say, 'I obey the Ten Commandments' or, "I follow God's Laws". I can understand what they mean, but theologically, it's a dangerous statement, because one cannot be "in Christ" & "under the Law" simultaneously. It's one or the other. If bound to the Law, judgement comes from that position. If bound to Christ, the Law & its curse are removed, we're set free, & we're led in newness of life in obedience & maturing by the Spirit.

Chris This statement blotting out the handwriting of ordinances refers to where in the old testament when a

person went into debt to another individual or declared bankruptcy it was posted on the gates of the city and

made public for all to see. Now if a friend would come by and would look at the note and go and pay the debt

then the note was folded over so people knew the debt was paid in full.

Jesus Christ blotted out by his sacrifice of himself all our past present and future mistakes nailing them

to the cross thereby removing the curse of the law. Basically all after being born again start with a clean slate

so to speak. Our debt or so to speak sin paid in full.

Hello Rick. That's interesting that you mention Colossians 2:16-20. In the sermon this morning, I was directed to Colossians 2:12-15 - verses just before the ones you gave. It came as a confirmation of what the New Covenant in Christ's Blood accomplished: "Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross". The Law as given was truly "holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good", but it failed to make a man righteous, rather to point him to his inability to keep it & his need of a Saviour.

Galatians 3:19-23: "Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one. Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed."

And this faith that leads to salvation came after the work at the Cross was accomplished & the Holy Spirit was sent to give those earnestly seeking forgiveness, giving to them God's Grace & Faith to believe ( Ephesians 2:8). The Sabbath might be holy but if the Jewish rigidity of obedience is ascribed to it by Christians under the Blood, then both it & the whole Law nullifies one of the core accomplishments of the Cross: liberty to walk & obey in the Spirit & not by the letter.

Rick, I agree. No one can does 400 laws perfectly. We walk by the Spirit and obey in love in each circumstance we find ourselves in day by day. The Spirit shows us ow to fulfill the spirit of the law, which is a righteousness that exceeds that of the Pharisees, in this sense. And ultimately, as we have been given the righteousness of Christ our "garment" our/His righteousness exceeds that of the Pharisees to the ultimately perfect degree, in this sense.

We are saved by faith, because of the shed blood of Jesus. However, Jesus told us that God's law will stand till heaven and earth pass. The law in Col 2 is the handwritten Moses' law not the !0 Commandments, finger-written by God.

If we sin, we need to repent. What is sin? 1 John 3vs 4 ' sin is the transgression of the law.' So, clearly, Jesus expects us to obey the law. It is written in our hearts but still can be over-ruled by us. Besides, what exactly does 'written in our hearts 'mean? Let us not be confused with trying to convert old Greek understandings exactly into modern English.We still have freewill and are not automatons obeying the Lord because of His presence within us. How can there be any disagreement between the written law and the law in our hearts? Jesus Christ is the same 'yesterday, today and forever' and Hebrews 13:8 'I am the Lord, I change not."( Malachi 3:6). What does being saved mean? To verbally accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour without complete submission to Him as Lord is worthless-- Rev 3:16.

We can lose our salvation. see, eg. Matt 24:13-'but he that shall endure to the end shall be saved' and Rev 3:11.

This issue is really important and often confusing. We are saved so we won't sin and will develop characters fit for heaven. God does not ever want any more disobedience. We must understand that His ways are perfect and we must obey.

Are you ready for His return? Let's look at the characteristics of his faithful followers at that time. Revelation 14:12-

'They keep the COMMANDMENTS OF GOD AND THE FAITH OF JESUS.' Note further Rev 22:14-

'Blessed are they that DO HIS COMMANDMENTS, that they may have RIGHT to the tree of life and may enter into the city.'

Note that it says HIS commandments, not somebody else's. Jesus does not separate Himself from His law.

'I am the Way, the Truth and the Life. The Bible also tells us in Psalm 119 vs 142 'Thy law is Truth.'

1 John 2:4- we are liars if not keeping commandments.

Amen!!

Well said Brother Rick.

God bless.

Hi William If there teaching the law doesn't count period that's not realty because when we walk by the spirit

we complete the law because we walk on the Highest law the law of Love. Therefore completing Math:22:37-40.

I'll guarantee you that no christian can walk by all the over 400 laws in the old testament the idea is NOT TO

INTENTIONALLY BREAK GODS COMMANDMENTS which if you endeavor to walk by the spirit to love God first you

won't be purposely breaking His Commandments.

Hi William, I understand what you are getting at. Jesus and Paul always said that the Law is good and holy. We should think of it that way, too. Like David, believers should love the commandments of God. To us they are a guide and a check, they are helpful to us in these ways. We no longer will receive the curse of breaking the Law, because of Christ's we redemptive work for us. As Christians we should not have animus against the Law; it shows us how righteous God is. Instead we should have animus against sin and all evil, hating it enough to want to be rid of it in us every time we are convinced of it in us by the Spirit. This animus should press us to confess and repent.

We here all know that we cannot have victory over sin without God's power and righteousness given to us at conversion.

So, we are not obeying the commands of God to earn our salvation. We already have it. We obey His commands because we are now righteous in Christ.

i see no conflict with a believer abiding by the 10 commandments. Like you said, Jesus said we are to obey His commandments. I do have a problem with a believer living a lifestyle of disobedience of these commandments, because it shows that they do not love God or desire to imitate Christ.

Hi Brother William,

Amen. You are speaking truth. Many so called christians today do not want to be submissive and obedient to God. They twist/divide/manipulate/ignore bible scripture in such a way, that they fool themselves, and even worse, bring down many others. They are convinced that they can live their worldly sinful lives and still achieve salvation.

You rightly listed one of the most powerful little verses spoken by Jesus in the entire bible: John 14:15 If we love Jesus we will keep his commandments.

Many people are so blinded, they feel justified in outright ignoring this scripture! Well I believe that Jesus will also be justified in ignoring them! And he tell us that he will - in this easy to understand scripture here:

Matthew 7:22-23

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

If we continue to follow Jesus, love him, and keep his commandments we will always have a lighted path, and he will know us!

God Bless.

Hi Chris This is what Paul dealt with all the time because he understood the age of Grace also completed

all the law because the law of Love in Christ it agapeo is above the Written law given to Israel to get them to

taste Gods Original Intent Mathew 22:36-40

Walking by the Spirit fulfills Mathew 22:36-40 includes the

Sabbath no matter which one you pick Colossians 2:16-20. Galatians 3 Whole Chapter IT IS WRITTEN. Sort

of a brief Synopsis. In the Book of Acts they fellowshipped daily house to house and evangelized everywhere

including the temple on their sabbath.

Hello William. You wrote, "We are called to obey God not to be saved but because we love God and want to please Him." I believe that to be able to truly love God & desire to please Him with our lives, must first require that we accept His Offer of Salvation - i.e. to be saved. If we're not saved through Christ's Blood, how is it possible to truly love God & please Him? History has shown that Israel tried to do this, to love God & please Him being given all the Laws to enable that to happen, even with God's pleadings by the mouths of the prophets. And you know what resulted from all that: they did not succeed, nor was God pleased with their efforts & they suffered.

But under the New Covenant, we read, "For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." ( Romans 8:3,4). Would you agree that it's the "righteousness of God's Law" within us by His Spirit that now makes us acceptable to the Father? Though I might write to you as one of those "minister wolves", I do so, not to antagonize or condemn, but for consideration of the greater worth of the New Covenant in Christ's Blood over the Old Law that failed because of man's inability to keep it. Anyone who wants to observe the Law to the letter to please God, will always fail & Christ's shed Blood has no efficacy towards his quest. But if any realize that there can be no salvation (& pleasing God) by Law observance, will find the liberty in Christ & the power of His Spirit, to fully meet the righteous requirements of God's Law written in our hearts. If & when we fail (sin), we know that we can find forgiveness, unlike the Jew who was severely punished. "Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage." ( Galatians 5:1).

Agree more with Glenn, because Genesis 1:26, "them" "over all the Earth"

Rick, please read : Mark 12:27, Luke 20:36-38, Hebrews 9:14-15, Luke 9:60, Genesis 2:17,

Genesis 3:20,

John 3:3,5,6,

Numbers 23:19, 2 Thessalonians 2:10-12, Leviticus,

Nowhere, is that stated in Scripture. Colossians 2:8

Revelations 22:19,

Verses 14 to 17 show that Moses' law, written by handwriting about holy days, sabbaths (not THE SABBATH) have been nailed to the Cross. They were only a 'shadow.' God's Law, written with the finger of God, remains to be obeyed forever. Jesus said He did not come to destroy God's law. Distinguishing between the 2 types of law is necessary to understand the Gospel. We are called to obey God not to be saved but because we love God and want to please Him. Be wary of minister wolves that claim the law is not valid anymore. John 14:15: 'If you love me, keep my commandments.' See Rev 22:14 showing that those who keep His commandments have right to the tree of life and may enter into the gates of New Jerusalem. Study His word yourself and do not be deceived. We all will face our Creator individually. It will be no excuse that our church misled us.

Jesus is God. He's part of the Godhead. Romans 1:20, When he was being tried by the Pharisees, He said: I and my Father are one.

The Scriptures about the Godhead. Sometimes called "Let Us" in some passages. These scriptures are evidence of all 3 persons of the Godhead speaking to each other.

Genesis 1:26, 3:22, 11:7

Isaiah 6:8

Romans 1:20

Colossians 2:9

Acts 17:27-30

1 John 5:7

John 10:30

"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made (us), even his eternal power and GODHEAD so that they are without excuse"

Genesis 1:1

The Father purposes

The Word (Jesus) speaks. ( John 1:1)

The Spirit (Holy Spirit) executes the spoken word. Action.

Jesus is returning sooner than we all think. Matthew 24 and Luke 21 give us specific signs to watch for. They will increase near the end of days

Something else...this world we call home is going to pass away. We know that it's going to end and be renewed to what God created in Genesis. Before we polluted it and destroyed it with greed and technology. 2 PETER CHAPTER 3.

God promised never to flood the World again. But it is going to burn up. It already happening. IT IS NOT GLOBAL WARMING. The earth is responding to the WORD OF GOD, shown to Peter.

It's coming apart now: forest fires, worldwide droughts, polluted ground water from human belligerence; continent sized floating islands of garbage in both hemispheres. Earthquakes and Volcanos, floods: with increasing intensity. FAULTS once thought long dead will become active. As the end wars will be fought, we'll see space objects hit earth, our cities. Food will be used against us to force us to take THE MARK OF THE BEAST, ANTICHRIST. One world currency will be forced on us next. One world religion. Individuality will be no more.

Take the Mark=DEATH

Take Jesus=LIFE ETERNAL

FAITH believes God's Word.

The Holy Spirit, John 3:5-8

Carmela Absolutely not I know many a christian who's Job including my daughters works on sunday

and if this is challenged look at Colossians 2:13-18 we are judged by the word and Jesus Christ put

an end to the old law, that meaning we worship God twenty four seven in our walk bu the spirit

and fellowship or get together with other believers when we can. The sabbath was made for man not

man for the sabbath, a man we all consider Kings of Kings said that.

Philippians 3:2

Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the conscision

Matthew 7:15

Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Colossians 2:8

Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Comment: ONLY GOD can change a heart. We are teach with kindness and patience. Not with the leaven of scribes and Pharisees. How did Jesus accomplish this? Study in 1 John, 2 John, 3 John.

John the beloved was called so, "because he gets it". He understood what Jesus said to us.

Sister GiGi:

John 17:21 That they ALL MAY BE ONE, as thou Father art in me, and I in thee, that they may all be one in us ....

This says that whatever and however the Father and Son have existed since the beginning, is the way we will also exist, in them, forever.

Colossians 1:19 For it please the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Ephesians 1:23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth ALL in ALL.

You can have the doctrines of man, I will take the doctrines of WORD.

Hi Gina,

I thought that someone would have responded to your post by now. Sorry, the Bible calls the seventh day the Sabbath. Genesis 2:3.

The believers in the Old Testament kept the 7th day Sabbath beginning what we call Friday at sundown to Saturday at sundown. In the beginning there were not the current names for the days of the week. So I am not sure we can really know exactly which was the seventh day in the earliest times. At one point, someone created a calendar, and determined what day was the seventh day according to the calendar. The Israelites were commanded by the Law of Moses (10 commandments) to set the Sabbath aside from working. So, they had to have some calendar to go by for determining the days of the week.

As Christians, we are urged to keep every day as a Sabbath, not to rest from work everyday, but to live it for God. But it is fine for Christians to keep the seventh day as a Sabbath, or Sunday, or any other day of the week as a day of rest and worship. We have such freedom to obey the commandment in its elevated way that Jesus taught His disciples and then they passed it on to their congregations. ( Colossians 2:16)

I Hope this helps you. Looking forward to your reply.

Judith,

The Sabbath is for man. God does not need to rest or worship Himself. He does not not need to be reminded that He exists or learn about who He is and what He has promised. We do.

Colossians 2:16-17 does tell us to keep everyday as holy to the Lord. If people want to have have a set day to rest and devote to God, that is good. If someone else is able to rest daily and devote time to God, good.

Some people have to work 7 days a week and do not have much leisure time. This was especially true in centuries past where most poor people and slaves did work a days a week. It is difficult for people on such a schedule to have time to attend worship services or fellowship outside of their home and family. Many of these people practiced the Presence of God all day long. Singing, meditating on God's word, and living towards others as God would have us do.

In today's society we have far more leisure time tan in any generation before us. That is why we have so many leisure activities and are inventing them daily. Look at the new outdoors sports activities that have been developed and popular in my lifetime. Look at the ways we entertain ourselves. Too much of a good thing isn't always good. I think it is important to remember to do all things in moderation. That way, we will have time each day to devote solely to God. Even so we are told that in whatever we do, we are to do all to the glory of God 1Cor. l0:31. We live each day not to ourselves, but to serve God in what ever situation we are in.

This is what Paul means when he talks about the liberty we have in Christ concerning the Law. We don't abolish the Law, but fulfill it in an elevated way beyond that proscribed by the Pharisees. The Pharisees had a myriad of laws and regulations about the Sabbat written in the Midrash. These additions to the simple commandment to keep holy the Sabbath burdened the Jews unnecessarily.

I explained it clumsy. See if this is clearer.

Though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. ( Philippians 2:6-7)

So in verse six, you have the preexistent Christ before incarnation in the form of God, which the next phrase defines as equality with God. Then in verse seven, you have him taking the form of a servant in the likeness of men. I think just as the term "form of God" in verse 6 does not mean "less than God" - because of the phrase "equality with God" - in the same way, the phrases "form of a servant" and "likeness of man" in verse 7 does not mean "less than human," but rather "equal with all humans." That is a real human nature.

One of the reasons I don't believe that is what Paul meant is because he says the very opposite in Colossians 2:9. He said, "For in him", in Christ - the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily." You even wonder whether he used the word fullness there partially to say, "He didn't empty himself of that. He's not empty. He's not only not empty - he's full. He's full of deity." The whole fullness of deity dwells bodily in Jesus. So I don't think he emptied himself of anything that constitutes the essence of deity.

[Another thing, Jesus did no miracles until after He was anointed in Luke 4:18, Isaiah 61:1]

Hi Dan.

Would you say plain people is one without the Holyspirit? if he has the Holyspirit he's not plain!! He has a helper and a truth revealer.

1 Corinthians 2:12-14. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. The Carnal mind can't understand what is written literal.

Here's The commandment Christ is speaking of-

John 15:12. This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

And this is not done by you, It is the Holyspirit that causes you to Love by virtue. This is a fruit. You can't produce fruit, You bare it by being connected to the vine. The Law could never Change the inner Man. Fruitl is interior!

Here's the concept. Matthew 23:25-26. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.

Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

Jesus is not talking about the Law because noone has been able to keep the law if so there was no need of a mercy seat that pointed to Christ.

The law was given to Israel and there was no tolerance in keeping it. It was the ministry of condemnation. If you break one you broken them all and if you do it once you're forever lost if you're not covered by the Lambs blood.

Colossians 2:13-14.

Romans 7:10.

Romans 7:11.

Romans 7:12.

The first sabbath that was broken when the law was given a couple was stoned to death for gathering sticks.

As plain as it gets.

God bless.

Power Today

Part 2

Precious friend, for Further Consideration of "studying" According To God's Command in 2 Timothy 2:15

Prophecy vs MYSTERY: Link

Precious friend, Please have your 'spiritual' appetite satisfied "With Heavy Bible studying," having a "FULL (stomach) ASSURANCE of understanding" according To God's Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided!

"That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto All Riches of The Full Assurance of understanding, to the Acknowledgement of The MYSTERY of God, and of the Father, and of Christ" Colossians 2:2

Conclusion

God's 'Context' for today = Prophecy/Law OR: Revelation Of The MYSTERY/GRACE?

Thhank you for your response Rick

David

Praise to Yesuha

David Absolutely he was in a culture that had more gods and holidays than we have now between the greeks and romans which worshipped intellect and nature and self then other cultures that worshipped the galaxy i.e. planets or a combination of all of what I stated. Christsmasses origination is Romans Saturnalia celebration in origin. So indeed what Paul was talking about in colossians 2:16-23 covers all this stuff.

Tradions of men? Do you suppose that celrbrating pagan holidays like christmas, easter.Halloween,lent,ash wednesday,all souls day,all sainys day or any traditions mentioned in the Tanakh would fall under the tradions that Paul is referring to?

Tried to answer your question but it was cesored I guess. Yes we should be able to talk about really difficult controversial subjects! Many do & sometimes it's allowed._._._. 2020 & 2021 are the most controversial. Lol

welcome

1 Timothy 6:12, 1 Timothy 6:6-12,

Why are there not more comments from 2021 or 2020 ? We all should walk daily. I know I do. Still trip over my feet some days....thankfully the Lord doesn't mind a klutz !LOL

Hello Tony. I think of Ephesians 2:8, "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God". We see here that the "Gift of God" is the whole: Grace & Faith. Both are needed from Him to receive His Salvation: the Gift of Grace & the Gift of Faith.

However, I couldn't place which verse(s) you were referring to. Both Romans 3:4 & Galatians 2:20, do not reveal what you suggest. Unless you were thinking of Galatians 3:26; Colossians 1:4; Colossians 2:5; & there may be more. I doubt if the apostle intended to infer that this was a faith generated by one towards attaining Christ, rather that the Gift being given & now existing in the believer, from which comes his varied expressions of that faith.

Genesis has to be read slower. God created everything necessary for all creatures and man to be able to eat herbs, grass, nectar, meats, etc. Every creature right down to a snail or smaller, had exactly the perfect food.

Romans 14:2

For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth HERBS.

Romans 14:15

But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.

Romans 14:17

For the kingdom of God is NOT meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

1 Corinthians 10:31

Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.

Colossians 2:16

Let NO man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

1 Timothy 1: 1-4

Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the LATTER TIMES, some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of DEVILS

2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

3 FORBIDDING to marry, and COMMANDING to ABSTAIN from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

4 For every creature of God is good, and NOTHING to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:

See, everything God made is good for us. In an agricultural society, people are very active and work off extra calories.

Not so much now in high-Tech society. If we eat too many calories, it stretches the stomach and the ribs and we walk leaning backwards.

My only comment is: I pray the Lord's Prayer over my food faithfully, because of things like covid and flu, ecoli, wisteria etc. I'm not paranoid; I just want to enjoy mealtimes. :D

And Phillip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

Mark 8:37

But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

Matthew 13:16

Then Peter said into them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 2:38

For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

John 6:38

And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Matthew 3:17

And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.

Genesis 17:11

So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing the word of God.

Romans 10:17

In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

Colossians 2:11-12

Know ye not, that so many of us were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Romans 6:3

Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in the likeness of his resurrection:

For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

Romans 6:4-8

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