Discuss Daniel 9 Page 10

PART 2:

c. All the things Jesus said in Matthew 20 thru 24 1/2 were fulfilled.

d. almost every single pre-1830 commentary I have read said this 'he' was Jesus or in John Gill's case, the Roman Army but Gill is off because they would have used the word 'they' (plural) instead of 'he' (singular) if it was more than one person. No references I could find up to date that teaches this 'he' is a future antichrist. It doesn't even make sense unless all grammar is thrown out. Check out what an antecedent is in grammar.

e. to turn abominationS (plural) in verse 27 into abomination (singular) is messing with God's Word. So what did the hierarchy of the religious leaders do after Jesus was crucified? they began animal sacrifice again thus mocking Jesus' death. This is the worst kind of abomination one can do, much worse than killing a pig on the altar as Antiochus Epiphanes did in 160 BC.

So in summary, there was only 3 1/2 years left after Jesus died in the 490 year timeline. Question is, was it fulfilled in

1. Stephens' death (there is no way to prove historically or Biblically that Stephen was killed an exact 3 1/2 years after Jesus. But I am open to this idea.

2. This is my take. The Great Revolt War that lasted 3 1/2 years from the fall of 66 AD to the spring of 70 AD; the Stay of Execution extra 40 years. 40 means trials and temptations in the Bible. even the demonic Jooish Talmud admits to the scarlet wool never turning white again from 40 years before the destruction of Jerusalam in Yoma 39b. This was a supernatural sign that God did after the Day of atonement. It never happened again after Jesus' death. This proves the abominationS in Daniel 9:27 has to be what the killing of animals again, not what ONE man way in the future was going to do. Even building a third temple is an abomination. See what God did to this attempt in 363 AD. I fear so many Christians are heading for major judgment for sending money to have this done.

3. see next post.

replying to your comment brother:

2. Re: Daniel 9:26,27. I think I'm reading correctly from your comment that it is Jesus that is seen in this passage. We see the Messiah cut off (v26) & then "the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city". Are you seeing Jesus here as well? Then who are the "people of Jesus (the prince)" that shall come to destroy? You said that "this has nothing to do with a future anti-Christ". And if v27 refers to Jesus, doesn't this aspect of 'confirming the covenant' resemble anti-Christ's plan to go against Israel & introduce his own abominations to desecrate the Temple?

1. Daniel 9:26) the people of the prince to come = General Titus of the Roman army. Titus historically became a prince over night when his father Vespasian was called back to Rome by the Roman Senate to become the new king (Caesar) and he was left in charge of the 66 AD to 70 AD siege of Jerusalem. This prince was not Jesus. Why did Daniel interject this prince into the passage? If it had not, all the things Jesus said in Matthew chapters 20, 21, 22 and 23 would not make much sense. I call the time period between Jesus' crucifixion and the destruction of Jerusalem (40 years) and extended time of the 490 year timeline and call it a Stay of Execution where God was giving those who rejected Jesus as the Messiah another chance with a total of 530 years from the beginning of the timeline.

2. If you read verse 26's AFTER, you find that the 'he' in verse 27 is talking about the Prince with a capital P. and thta Jesus died in the middle of the 70th week.

a. the first 49 years (7 weeks) were already fulfilled and then the next 434 years (62 weeks) so we are already into the 70th week without Messiah being cut off yet. So this 'he' has to be the Messiah.

b. Jesus made an end of the animal sacrifices proving further he was the 'he'.

Hi Chris,

I have been real busy. You sound kind of post-trib or pre-wrath to me when you mentioned God's wrath in your comment. There is no reason to put a gap in 1st Thess. 4:13-18 just because harpazo and parousia are in verses 15 and 17. The Bible doesn't do that so we shouldn't do that. It seems to me that the rapture is THAT particular resurrection whether you want to believe in more than one. Yes, there is no gap in that passage just like there is no gap in Genesis 1:1 and verse 2 thta some scholars magically put in there ignoring grammar, context and the word yom.

I believe it is this way.

1. Satan pours out his wrath for 3 1/2 years based on Revelation stating a 3 1/2 year time period, not a 7 year that supposedly wasn't fulfilled in Daniel 9:24 - 27 because the Bible clearly states that Jesus died in the middle of the 70th week if you follow the antecedent of 'he' in verse 27 as it points to Matthew, 23's curse. This is why verse 27 in Daniel 9 doesn't say abomination but plural abominationS. This verse has nothing to do with a future antichrist but is Jesus Himself as that is what the passage is about and fulfills all the warnings of Matthew 20, 21, 22, and 23.The abominationS is the return to animal sacrifice for 40 years after Jesus died.

2. God pours out his wrath with plagues for an indeterminate amount of time. We know ONE plague lasts 5 months alone so my guess is at least a few years to ten or more. The Bible doesn't state either way. My question for you here is since this is typology of the time God brought Israel out of Egypt, 1. where were the children of Israel at the time of the plagues?, Answer: still in Egypt and Egypt is a type of the world.

3. Grapes of WRATH. THE RETURN OF JESUS. This wrath really is the beginning of judgment where the wicked are taken first as in the days of Noah.

God Bless!

REVELATIONS QUESTIONS???

I am unable to fit all Tribulation events (Seals, Trumpets, and Vials) into a 7 year time period.

A 7 year time period is not given in the Book of Revelations concerning the Tribulation.

The Book of Daniel refers to this time period as the final "seven" of the "seventy weeks" ( Daniel 9:24). That final 7 has been going on for over 2000 years.

In the "midst of the week" does refer to the middle of a set of SEVEN years when the sacrifice and the oblation will cease, and this refers to the 7 Vials of Revelations 16:1-18:24 which are poured out at the END.

In addition, Jesus said that the time of the "Great Tribulation" would be "shortened" ( Matthew 24:22). We find that this particular time (after the 5th Trumpet and the 1st Woe) is shortened to "five months" (Revelations 9:5). Where does this factor in?

The period of time covering "Jacob's trouble" ( Jeremiah 30:7) is 20 years; It could be seen as 13 years if the first 7 are not counted; because they seemed "but as a few days" ( Genesis 29:20). Could this be a more plausible time period for all events to take place?

Daniel's entire prophecy of the seventy sevens ( Daniel 9:20-27) is speaking of the nation of Israel. It is a time period in which God focuses His attention especially on Israel. The seventieth seven, the tribulation, must also be a time when God deals specifically with Israel. While this does not necessarily indicate that the church could not also be present, it does bring into question why the church would need to be on the earth during that time.

The primary Scripture passage on the rapture is 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18. It states that all living believers, along with all believers who have died, will meet the Lord Jesus in the air and will be with Him forever. The rapture is God's removing of His people from the earth. A few verses later, in 1 Thessalonians 5:9, Paul says, "For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ." The book of Revelation, which deals primarily with the time period of the tribulation, is a prophetic message of how God will pour out His wrath upon the earth during the tribulation. It seems inconsistent for God to promise believers that they will not suffer wrath and then leave them on the earth to suffer through the wrath of the tribulation. The fact that God promises to deliver Christians from wrath shortly after promising to remove His people from the earth seems to link those two events together.

What settled the rapture question for me was Luke's recount of the same conversation about the end as Matthew 24. In Luke's account we get a few gems of wisdom added to the story, particularly this one:

Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Luke 21:36 (KJV)

What many Christians don't understand is that many, many of those who identify as Christians will NOT be found worthy to escape! We all have to have oil in our lamps (The Holy Spirit) so that we do not miss the Bridegroom, a

ACTS 1:10-20

This took place in a Upper Room. A prophesy about Judas Iscariot is discussed. They are about to appoint a new 12th disciple.

I believe the Holy Spirit showed Peter of the prophesies about Judas Iscariot's betrayal.

This is one of those studies that you have to read at a snails pace, all of the center column references to get a clearer picture of prophesy with present circumstances.

I'm going to list the passages and let the scholars in here piece it together with Holy Spirit, our Helper: helping us rightly divide the Truth.

Acts 1: 10:20

John 18:3

Matthew 26:55-56

Psalm 41:9, 55:23

Isaiah 53:7 (Ch 53 all about Jesus)

Daniel 9:26

Lamentations 4:20

Leviticus 25:15

Deuteronomy 16:9

Mishael, This is not a football game between equals. God isn't "playing" against Satan. Can Satan be a force for God to contend with? No. It is not as if the devil can just score some points, he might win the game. God has a allowed the devil for a specific reason. The question we have to answer is Why? Why has God allowed the devil to exist? Revelation tells us the devil will be jailed for 1,000 years, if we understand that right, then he will "of necessity" be released. Why is it necessary to jail, release, then destroy the devil? Why doesn't God just destroy him now?

God deals with the devil because it is necessary. In our timeframe it might seem like a long time coming, but however many years we have been around, is really a twinkling of an eye in terms of eternity. That is why Peter tells us that 1,000 years go by as fast for God as a day. Time flies when you are having fun.

God is dealing with certain things to eradicate evil. And this is the process He is following. Christ came to destroy everything the devil represents. He came to end idolatry (making other things greater than God). He came to destroy death. He came to establish eternal perfection. See Daniel 9:24 and others.

Daniel 9:26 says the prince shall come and in the end the city and Sanctuary will be with a flood. Can you clarify this for me?

Chris, again you ask, "God's creation was formed for the sole purpose of corruption, so His Christ could fulfill His Plan for removing that corruption"?

Again the answer is, 'somewhat'. The Bible says Christ came to destroy the works of the devil, death, evil and corruption. The Bible also says that was God's Plan before time even began ( Titus 1:2). If God planned the eradication of corruption (sin, evil, death, decay, pain, suffering), before any of it existed, then God created, in part to remove corruption from created things.

If we can apply Daniel 9:24 to Christ, we can conclude that Christ came to get rid of corruption and establish eternal perfection. Throughout Scripture we see that God's purpose is to put an end to corruption (wickedness, evil). The hope of the Christian is that we will live in eternal incorruptibility ( 1 Cor 15:53).

So, to accomplish His purpose of a perfect existence, God had to create the imperfect creation that exists. God not only understood, in His wisdom and infinite knowledge, that corruption would affect creation, He planned for it. I repeat my previous assertion that, corruption was an inevitable consequence of creation. Were that not true, God would not have created an existence susceptible to corruption. Why would He? Consequently, He had to create the existence He created and make arrangements to make it perfect. To achieve perfection, all we have experienced had to happen.

It was because of that, that God ceased His creative work on the 7th Day. God stopped creating, because He created with a Purpose. There isn't anything in the Bible that even suggests God created mankind for mankind's own sake. The only thing I see we are left with, is that God created for Christ to put an end to corruption in creation. As we can see from Hebrews 3-4, we are still in the 7th Day of God's rest. That's to say, God did not resume creating things the morning after the 7th Day. And God won't resume creating until Christ returns.

I agree. As we read the Bible, we come up with slightly different perspectives and one of those has to do with the time of the Rapture.

Please, show me your timeline of events recorded in Scripture about the End Time? I will list mine below. Please clarify. Thanks.

1. THE ANTICHRIST. Daniel 7-12

Daniel 9:27 - And he will confirm a covenant with many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of the temple will come the abomination that causes desolation, until the decreed destruction is poured out upon him.

2. THE ANTICHRIST EXALTS HIMSELF OVER GOD IN THE TEMPLE.

Matthew 24:15 - when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination of desolation

3. THE GREAT TRIBUALTION.

Matthew 24:21 - at that time there will be great tribulation, unmatched from the beginning of the world

Revelation 7:14 - These are the ones who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Revelation 20:4 - I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the Beast.

4. THE COMING OF CHRIST and RAPTURE.

2 Thessalonians 2:1 - Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to Him

Matthew 24:3 - when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming

Matthew 24:29 - Immediately after the tribulation

Daniel 7:13 - and I saw One like a Son of Man coming with the clouds of heaven

1 Thessalonians 4 - we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds

Mark 13:26 - At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.d And He will send out the angels to gather His elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of heaven.

Revelation 18:4, - Come out of her, My people.

19:1f For the marriage of the Lamb.

Sackcloth and ashes is extreme mourning and / or repentance. sackcloth was rough uncomfortable for clothing. Sitting in ashes was dirty and I suppose symbolic of being dirty and burn out? It is humility before the Lord

2 Samuel 3:31 And David said to Joab, and to all the people that were with him, Rend your clothes, and gird you with sackcloth, and mourn before Abner. And king David himself followed the bier.

Genesis 37:34 And Jacob rent his clothes, and put sackcloth upon his loins, and mourned for his son many days.

Nehemiah 9:1 Now in the twenty and fourth day of this month the children of Israel were assembled with fasting, and with sackclothes, and earth upon them.

Psalms 35:13 But as for me, when they were sick, my clothing was sackcloth: I humbled my soul with fasting; and my prayer returned into mine own bosom.

Daniel 9:3 And I set my face unto the Lord God, to seek by prayer and supplications, with fasting, and sackcloth, and ashes:

Q

what does it means when the bible say sackcloth and ashes?

I have never had any visions of end-time events. All I have is what was given to John in the book of Revelation. Plus we have Matthew Chapters 25 and 25. In the book of Revelation, John got to see the whole thing happen while it was happening. We don't understand that because we haven't gotten there yet. We live in a time/space factor, and everything goes according to the clock and calendar for us. But it is not that way for God, and John got caught up in spirit to see the whole thing happen while it was taking place. We haven't been there yet. One thing is for certain, it will happen exactly how John described it because he literally witnessed it happening while it happened.

I think we have to be careful about how we approach end-time events. When dealing with end-time prophecy, we have to always keep in mind that all prophecies concerning the last days are based upon Daniel 9:24-27, which presents the 70th week of Daniel. Plus, all end-time prophecies are centered on the Jewish people. If a prophecy is ever presented as centered on the United States of America, you know it is going to be off.

The 70th week of Daniel is a 7 year period, which will be the 7 year Tribulation Period. Right now, we are living in what is called the time of the Gentiles. The time of the Gentiles began on April 6th, 32 A.D. when Christ died and will end when Christ comes for His church. That will be the rapture. And from that point, there will be a 7 year period of tribulation before Christ returns at His second coming. And by the way, we come back with Him! What a blessed day that will be! So by now, you've probably figured out that I am a Pre-Tribber. I firmly believe in a Pre-Tribulation rapture. I know there are different views on when the rapture will take place (Pre/Mid/Post), but I stand pretty firm on my position of a Pre-Tribulation rapture.

Daniel 9:25-27 Can you help me to understand Who are they speaking of?

Thank you.

The rod? Have you heard a saying that goes "spare the rod, spoil the child" chastisement
The staff? That was used as a comfort.. so to speak. Before the Bible was in existence
To dwell in the house of the Lord?
As a Christian, we are not perfect, we fall short daily, many times daily. We should live a Christian life, if ya know it's wrong, don't do it. Be ye a separate people. Do not be conformed to the world. Live your life as God was right there with you every second of the day. And pray ask for forgiveness when you mess up.. nobody can walk your walk but you. 😁

I agree!!

In Psalm 23- what is the 'rod' and the 'staff' referred to in this Psalm? Gods Word? Gods Holy Spirit?
What does it mean to 'dwell' in the house of The Lord? Is it practicing the presence of God always? To dwell???? How can I dwell in the house of The Lord as I do my every day chores? go to work? do my shopping etc
Thank you for your help in clarifying these for me.

the same revelations that were sealed in Daniels times were later revealed to John in Revelation; and he is cautioned not to hide them-but to tell them to the Church of God.Christ refers to the same in Matthew 24:15,Paul talks of the same in 2Thessolonians2.They are understood by the books(Bible).Kindly stop misleading God's people please.Do intense bible study

the only time that God gathers his elect from the Four Winds is at the Rapture of the church and we know that the Antichrist has to wait until we're raptured out to be revealed to the unbelievers 2nd Thessalonians 2:7-8 and we know that Christ returns after 7 years and sets up his kingdom, kills all the unbelievers, that's when the vultures gather and eat up all the flesh and we know that the Covenant is what triggers the Rapture the peace deal between the Jews and the Muslim world Daniel 9:27 1st Thessalonians 5:1-5

Those 70 weeks were all done a long time ago. 69 weeks were 463 years after the Israelites were permitted to rebuild the wall. The other 7 yrs were pertaining Christ's ministry 3.5 years to His death and the other 3.5 years when the apostles preached, Daniel 9:24-27 especially verse 27 speaks of Christ's death by ending of sacrifices. The death of Stephen marked the end of the 490 years when the apostles fled to spread the word to the rest of the world, Acts 8:1.

Daniel 9:24 - why is the 70 weeks translated in other bibles as 490 years?

Very powerful scripture

faithful Daniel (though a slave in a foreign country) holds a high office in government; he has not forgotten Jehovah /God; also this prayer of Daniel clearly teaches us in 2019 why GOD allowed HIS wrath on the promised-land. This prayer of Daniel is applicable to us because the whole world has repeated that day /then. So Being SAVED BY THE BLOOD OF JESUS is our only HOPE. The trial-date is set.

I SEE DANIEL'S HUMILITY IN PRAYERS THAT WON GOD'S FAVOUR.IF WE NEED OUR PRAYERS TO BE ANSWERED SPEEDILY THEN WE MUST BE HUMBLE IN OUR PETITION TO GOD.

Verses 1,2~Daniel was now an older man, but he was still a deep student of God's Word. We want to continue to read the Bible throughout all the days of our lives like Daniel did.

Ivan; in Daniel 9:22-25, the Angel speaks of 70 weeks, 7 weeks, and 62 weeks. According to your theorizing and trying to force an easy interpretation of one size fits all meanings; as if the Scriptures were written in code; what do you do with the 70 and the 62? Likewise the false teaching about a pre-tribulation rapture is not founded in Scripture and cannot answer to the realities of this world.

Jesus is record twice to have commended the reading and understanding of Daniel. Matt. 24 and in mrk. This commendation would seem to imply daniel was, even in that era, open for intelligent understand of times relative to events in their order for sequence: "signs for the times."

verse 27 - I think it is foolishness and irresponsible as a servant of the Lord to try to make up methods and formulas for deciphering things that are declared sealed by God. What things ARE revealed to us, are the things we should occupy ourselves in; for they are the things which we must give account for when the Master returns. As we grow in grace and are able to bear it, He will show us more.

(Cont.) Yet there are multitudes of immature and misguided, who know nothing nor seem to have any clue to seek for, the kind of character that God WOULD INDEED RESPECT, in order to find knowledge. Daniel was confessing and repenting, and acknowledging the truth about himself and of all God's people; NOT seeking to be anything great! THEN did the LORD send to give him understanding of all things!

While Daniel was speaking, confessing his sins and the sins of Israel; while he was confessing the righteousness of God and praying for His mercy and forgiveness; while Daniel was mortified and in a horror of grief because his people for all that they had suffered of punishment for their sins, still did not repent nor seek God at all! That's when the Angel was sent to give him understanding!