Discuss Deuteronomy 18 Page 3

Hi John. Today we declare what's written, we have no new prophetic messages to give that's not given in scripture. God gives us his Devine word and the Holyspirit to discern truth.

In the old testament they used these measures you see in

Deuteronomy 18:21-22. And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?

When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

Listen to Moses in Deuteronomy 18:17-18. And the LORD said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken.

I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

That Prophet was Jesus.

Hebrews 1:1-2. God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake ""IN TIME PAST"" unto the fathers by the prophets,

Hath ""IN THESE LAST DAYS"" spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Hi malcolm ,dont know why you addressed your last message to me as i havent posted about baptism or salvation etc .

This is to sacha, being baptized does not save you. placing trust and faith in christ saves. look at romans 10:9,10. now, this is one passage that is spoken quite often about hell. it's a parable about the rich man and lazarus luke 16:19-31.

I was not that young. I was married and had two children. I accompanied my husband to San Francisco on a business trip.

Just a correction to my Page 1. The word 'naive' became 'nave' through the Site's spell checker. Apologies.

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I agree, that 'fornication' is used quite often in the Bible, but when we examine the Scriptures referring to it, we would find that it doesn't always apply to how we understand it now, but can have several meanings & applications. There are references to Israel's spiritual fornication ( 2 Chronicles 21:11 & Ezekiel 16:26,29) & we know of the heathen's compulsion in this area associated with temple worship where temple prostitutes served to bring worshippers to a heightened experience of their god. A grievous sin indeed, but we shouldn't make this sin our focus because of its numerous references, as all sin, as seen in every book of the Bible, is as much sin as fornication is. But if fornication is made to be the cause of all sin, then we'll find that we have to alter the intent & meaning of relevant Scriptures to suit our belief & for this, thus you will have noticed the comments coming to you from us, to highlight this error.

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Thank you Marilyn, for sharing a little of the background for your focus & insistence about fornication being the cause of sin.

From what you've shared, & maybe as a younger more nave lady, such a response from your Pastor would have truly shocked you as something unbelievable & abominably disgraceful. And that he added, "all men do that", surely must have applied to those who have that disposition & not to ALL men, including himself. Maybe you should have sought further clarification from him about what he just told you, but I guess you were in great distress & perplexity.

So armed with that revelation from him, you began your search in the Bible. Then with what you do know now (i.e. the truth), that such sins of o & a sex, are limited to those of homosexual disposition & not to heterosexual men (which are still in the majority, I hope), I'm left wondering why you still feel that from this type of sin all others are produced. In Sodom, this sin was clearly evident but so were many other sins (as in any country or community even today), so from where did your firm belief arise? The sin of fornication is indeed a most wicked sin, but it is only one of a countless number of sins which God detests & which sends men to hell. Even if a man or woman does not sin by fornication (in mind or body), some other sin will get them & consign them to hell.

Yes, Chris, You have asked what made me begin to study about what the Bible tells us about human sexuality. Years ago I made a trip to San Francisco where I heard of men having sex with men. In my mind's eye I put two men together face to face and said, "I don't see how they could do anything." When I arrived home, I asked my pastor what do two men do sexually? He answered, "They commit oral sex." And then he added, "All men do that." I was shocked! The first thought that came into my mind was, "I wonder what God says about that? I began my study to find the answer to that question. Because he believed all men do that, I assumed he was including himself. I took my membership out of Christianity at that time. I don't belong in a group like that. The second thought that immediately came to mind was, "I wonder if that has anything to do with cancer?

The Bible has much to say about human sexuality. Fornication is one of the main words it uses. In 1 Corinthians 6:13 it declares, "The body is not made for fornication, but for the Lord. " And in Jude we know that those in S&G committed fornication. But the body is not made for that. Many translation have removed the word fornication from the Bible. Even the New King James removed it from the book of Jude.

1 Corinthians 5:9 in my Bible does cross-reference with 2 Corinthians 6:14 & also Ephesians 5:11. So when I look at all three, I see only one thought that is common to all - and it isn't 'fornication'. The common thought is: 'not to keep company', refuse fellowship, have no fellowship'. That is why these three verses were cross-referenced - not because of 'fornication'. You have placed this word there, or at least wanting to believe that these verses in all three passages are speaking about fornication.

Anyway, I have said this over & over again: you really need to read & interpret Scriptures as given & not force words & meanings into it that are not intended. You have this thing on your mind (& you still haven't explained from where you learned to read Scriptures this way), that all wickedness has its root in fornication. Yet, even with the 1 Corinthians 5:9 verse, you neglect to mention the other sins associated with that verse: covetous, extortioners, idolaters & even those in verse 11. Why are those sins omitted & fornication stands out? You're fixated on it & are forgetting the equal sinfulness of the other sins.

Chris you wanted more scriptures about marriage.

1 Cor 5:9."I wrote unto you in an epistle (1) not to company with fornicators." The cross reference "not to company with fornicators" sends me to (1) 2 Cor 6:14: "Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers; for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? And what communion hath light with darkness?" Do not marry a fornicator.

Husbands

Eph. 5:25, 26." Husbands love your wives, even as Christ loved the church, and gave himself for it; that he (JESUS) might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word."

Jesus will sanctify and cleanse the church when he comes. Before he does this, the churches are profane/unholy and unclean. Today Christianity looks like S&G. Jesus will sanctify the church. He will remove fornication from our present day Christianity.

How do you sanctify a person or a church? It is the same for both a person and a church.

"For this is the will of God, even your sanctification that ye should abstain from fornication" 1 Thes. 4:3."

Notice that Jesus will tell husbands to love their wives the same way as he will love the church. Jesus will remove fornication from the church and make the church holy. He is telling husbands to do the same for marriage. Remove fornication from marriage. Your wives were not given to you to abuse in the unholy manner of fornication. There is no fornication in holy matrimony. Holy people do not commit acts of oral or anal sex.

Hi Danae, we read here the final words of the risen Jesus speaking to John, concluding with this great invitation. This invitation is to all people, those from Jesus' day ( John 4:9-15): "living water' = "water of life" to all people since that time. And this invitation has always been open to all, all of us who are sinners, that we are to come to Him, to the foot of the Cross, whereby we may find that shed blood to cleanse us from all sin & that "living water" that brings refreshment to our parched & spiritually thirsty hearts. His teaching to the Samaritan woman was that of 'well water' (physical water) that at best can only satisfy us physically & in the short term. But His Water (the spiritual water) is not from a 'well dug into the ground', but from the 'well' deep within the believer continually 'bubbling over & over', bringing deep satisfaction, quenching our thirst & giving assurance of our faith & of everlasting life.

But "why does God give us a choice since He is Sovereign?" Man has always had the power to choose, usually unwisely (I think of the first bad choice made by Adam & Eve). But when it comes to receiving salvation, even though God already knows our response to the Gospel & His Spirit's call (tug) on our hearts, the invitation is always there, because a response is required. If the Gospel is to be preached for a sinner to be saved, that sinner must first sense the Spirit's conviction of that sin & that either produces true repentance or a disregard to it. If that person is appointed to eternal life (according to God's foreknowledge of that person), that conviction in him, must produce something, or else he is merely a machine (robot). We are humans that involuntarily respond to all kinds of situations; & to sin's conviction, we cry out to God for forgiveness & when God sees that torn, wretched soul seeking its hope only in Christ, salvation is granted & permanent. Yes, God is sovereign but He requires our response to His invitation ( Rev 22:17).

Hi Chris, I am stuck understanding another section.

Hi, I am working on Growth Journals and Lesson 5 addresses Discovering the Attributes of God. I am stuck on a question regarding Rev. 22:17. Specifically, why does God give us a choice, since He is soverign (rules over everything)?

3 PLAGUES IN THE BIBLE FROM ASIA/CHINA: (you will need Bible Maps)

Hosea 10:12

Revelation 16:12

The sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up, to prepare the way for the kings from the EAST.

Revelation 9:16-18

The number of mounted troops was twice ten thousand times ten thousand; I heard their number. And this is how I saw the horses in my vision and those who rode them: they wore breastplates the color of fire and of sapphire and of sulfur (national colors of China) and the heads of the horses were like lions' heads, and fire and smoke and sulfur came out of their mouths. By these THREE PLAGUES, A THIRD OF MANKIND IS KILLED by the fire and smoke and sulfur coming out of their mouths.

Matthew 24:14

And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

Isaiah 49:12

Behold, these shall come from AFAR, and behold, these from the north and from the west, and these from the land of Syene."

China gave us Swine FLU. SARS virus, Corona virus. I got a feeling that corona virus isn't done killing yet.

Google "Past Pandemic LIST". (That has World death totals)

I don't think we need to act like this is just like past FLU episodes. We get a flu shot and feel protected for another year. Corona virus doesn't act like past flu's.

I didn't know there were any scriptures of China in the Bible. I looked it up as a lark.

Mishael

Brother Adam,

Here is biblical proof with context

Isaiah Prophesy

Isaiah 7:14 14Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Isaiah 9:6 6For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Isaiah 44:6 6Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

Prophesy Fulfilled

Matthew 1:21 Context 20But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. 21And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. 22Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet,

Revelation 22:13 13I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

John 1:3 Context 1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2The same was in the beginning with God. 3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Titles used in the Bible = Word, God, Spirit, Holy Spirit, Redeemer, Almighty Father, I AM, First & Last, Wonderful Counselor, Lord, Alpha and Omega, etc = all these titles belong to JESUS.

For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace isaiah 9:6

Is this enough?

Check out the geneology of Genesis that portrays the gospel. Also God states ingenesis "Let s make man in Our image" not my image.

"there is no proof that supports the Trinity." Do you not count the Bible as proof, because the Bible is full of proof:

1 John 5:7 "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."

How else can you explain this verse "these three are one" other than that these three are one? Doesn't it literally mean what it says? And how do you explain all the other verses that echo the same thing?

There is no proof that the father, son, and holy ghost is NOT all one. It literally says that in the Bible 1 John 5:7, does it not? Where is your proof that the Bible isn't true? How do you know that you haven't been deceived?

Luke 1:35 "And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God."

John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

John 15:26 "But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:"

1 John 5:8 "And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one."

1 John 5:10 "He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son."

1 John 5:11 "And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son."

What you said contradicts the truth in the Bible, there is no proof that supports the Trinity.

Robert, thank you for your comments but this thread has become too long & I can't even be certain that I would respond correctly given the passage of time.

However, I understand that you believe that Jesus is now only in Heaven. The Scriptures you cite can be understood in both ways (Jesus only in Heaven or Father & Son in Heaven). But if we fail to understand the Triune God's Nature then everything subsequent to that will fail or become distorted. I recall that you once wrote an analogy of a man that can be a husband, a father, a president - do you remember that? And you related that to the Godhead as being One (i.e. Jesus). That analogy fails because you're referring to one Man fulfilling three outward functions, but he himself only being one entity.

The Trinity is not all about that; it's about God (& putting it crudely for our understanding), having two other Beings within Him - He is One with two other Beings within Him that emanate from Him to fulfil His Will. So if one Being ('an aspect') of God was missing (whether the Word or the Spirit) He wouldn't be God (at least by how He is revealed to us in Scripture). Just as man would not be a 'normal' man, without a body, soul or spirit.

So when we read "the Father dwelleth in Me" or "I am in the Father & the Father in Me", Jesus is showing that intrinsic composition of the Godhead: the Father, the Word (Jesus) & the Spirit are inseparable & indivisible. If you 'see' God, you must also see Jesus & the Spirit as a part of God. If you 'see' Jesus, then again, the Father & the Spirit must be seen and so too with the Spirit: all Three are part of One & together function as One, fulfilling the Will of One. To think that the Father is only seen in Jesus making the Presence of God no longer in Heaven except for Jesus, is to then throw away so much other Scripture that show otherwise, that God is in Heaven & the risen Jesus beside Him (which we have discussed before).

#1 = God is a Spirit - Old Testament - invisible to naked eye, omnipotent - can do anything, omnipresent - present anywhere, omniscient - all knowing, sees everything. Adam sin - all mankind sin - requires shedding of blood for remission, to reconciled mankind to himself. As it was prophesied by Isaiah - God manifests himself in the flesh - Emmanuel.

#2 = New Testament - Isaiah's prophecy fulfilled = virgin birth of Jesus - dual nature - God & man, but mostly living as a man during the 3 years of earthly ministry with 12 disciples - the disciples were men like us today - limited understanding which is why they don't understand Jesus spoken words which comes from the Father directly, this very true today - our limited understanding and wisdom failed to fully understand the written word of God or gospel in the Bible.

#3 = After resurrection, when Jesus ascended into heaven while the disciples were watching, then said I will send the Holy Spirit to indwell in your heart to teach, guide, protect you, do greater things than what you've seen me do. This is why the Apostles did lots of miracles - raising the dead, casting demons, healing the sick, etc.

John's gospel explained this John 14:9 Context 6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. 7If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. 8Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. 9Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? 10Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. 11Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake. 12Verily, verily, I say

What do you mean by don't get the holy spirit?

Deniva that is dependent a lot on what an individual is instructed or taught to believe, Gods Guarantee is Romans 10:9+10 from the heart and that is between you and God because only God knows whats in a persons heart.

Romans 10:9-10 is how you get saved.

If you dont have the Holy Spirit seal you're not a Christian in the literal sense.

Romans 10:9-10 is how you get saved. After that you're sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption. You wont go to hell if you believed in the Gospel.

Ephesians 2 states that we are saved by grace through faith.

Not your works but what the Son of God, Christ did on the cross at Calvary. You cant lose your salvation n my opinion.

Romans 14 can help you tremendously. Also, if you do something thats not of faith it it sin according tonthat book.

So do you believe that you're doing smt wrong? Paul states that we are called unto liberty and that all things are premissable yet all things aren't helpful. Now this should be taken in the proper context.

Pray that God gives you the faith to believe that all things in the proper context are premissable for you and you're good to go. Yet we are not to indulge in the flesh but to help eachother.

yes,How come everyone dont get the holyspirit? if,christians dont get the holyspirit are they God people?

There is something that really worries me and that is I was put on pain pills a long time ago and now I wonder if God holds that against me? I cannot just stop taking them and I sure do not want to go to hell because of it! They were given to me by a Doctor but not a first rate really good Doctor so what do you all think. I am going to stop taking them but it is not my choice to do so. I am so afraid God is mad at me for it and I do not want anything to keep me from going to Heaven! I am a very strong believer and I believe every word in the Bible but I still get this feeling God is mad at me for it! Please tell me what you all think!

I can appreciate that we all have a lot to learn, best to me is follow the law of love I corinthians 13. God Bless!

"(So) your saying the early church didn't know who or what they worshipped even Paul."

No, I'm not saying that. The apostles, including Paul, certainly did know the true God, even as Jesus revealed Him to them. In very truth, "He that hath seen Me hath seen the Father" ( John 14:9), Jesus had not only declared to them who God was but that He, Jesus, was the human personification of God Himself.

So can we assume that the God on His Throne in Heaven physically looked just like Jesus? Not so, for God is Spirit & none on Earth has seen Him, bar His Son. But Jesus presented to His apostles & those around, all of the Mind, the Nature, the Will, the Plans, the Holiness, the Love & Justice of God. How could He do this? Because He said, "I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father." ( John 16:28)

We can't force this Scripture to mean that Jesus came into existence because of God's Plan for Redemption, because the Greek for "I came forth (from the Father)" is 'exelthon', which means 'to go or to come out of'. And when Jesus says, "and am come into the world" the Greek here is different, 'elelutha' or 'to come, to go'. So He came 'out of the Father' to be sent (or, go) into the world. And then He says, "I leave the world, and go to the Father". Now the word is 'poreuomai' which means, 'to go or to travel'. And this implies not only his leaving the world physically, but His entrance back into Heaven, from whence He came, was not into the singular unity of the Godhead, but as a Man Who would be worshipped beside the Father, yet never losing His divinity to Him. In other words, if Jesus just came to Earth as the Word of God to men (as was spoken by the prophets) & returned to Heaven, logic says that He would have returned back into the Unity of God - just as the Holy Spirit, who is only Spirit, comes to us & goes to Heaven in the same Divine Form.

Both Paul & the Church knew the Deity of Christ & preached it.

Diane, I'm unsure where your question is leading to, but to answer simply: the disciples of Jesus ( Matthew 10:1-4) later were referred to as apostles. A disciple essentially is a student, particularly to a Master, Rabbi, etc. where in his 'raw' state is brought into further knowledge of the prescribed Truth & by the witness of the life of the Master. An apostle is "a sent out one" or a messenger, who then takes what he has learned to teach others also & in the case of Christ's apostles, to deliver the life-saving, life-changing Gospel.

You asked, "In the apostalic line where is paul peter john james luke ?" Peter, John, James & another 9 were disciples & apostles, with Paul coming later, "as one born out of due time" ( 1 Corinthians 15:8). Then folk such as Luke & most likely others who were not part of the 'inner circle' (the 12), were also 'ad hoc' disciples who doubtless pursued their careers but spent time with the Lord to learn of Him. So when the last of the apostles (John) died, the apostolic line ended, though in a sense, an apostolic work can & does continue today, as we who have also learned from the Lord, the writings of the apostles & the sages of our time, can confidently go out & share what we have learned. Of course, without having the privilege of having the apostles around to question them further on doctrines, etc., our Churches & indeed, our beliefs, will always remain divergent, e.g. on the Trinity, the Second Coming, Law & Grace, etc.

In the apostalic line where is paul peter john james luke ?

In regards to this subject I believe Gods Grace is big enough that Romans 10:9+10 covers it, I.E. really good start after that let God work in the heart of the individual its His Church. God Bless