Discuss Deuteronomy 20

2 Samuel 11 and most of chapter 12 discuss David's next prayer; which was a result of God's decision to strike his illegitimate child with Bathsheeba (even though at this time he was already married to her). Verse 16 talks about David "pleading" with God which I would say was a manner of prayer; perhaps equivalent to what some called a "lament" when it relates to Psalms he also wrote.

As discussed briefly in my last post; the first phase of David's life was his struggle to survive under Saul; which as one commentator happened to say involved 21 separate attempts to kill him; many times with a javelin in the beginning. This situation with Bathsheeba occured when his troops were achieving victory; and he probably should have been out on the battlefield himself at this time. Let's take some time to discuss how heinous this sin was as related to Uriah the Hittite and taking advantage of his wife; and compare it to the behavior of Uriah.

First off; the Hittites were; according to Deuteronomy 20:17 to be totally annihilated. This is yet another example (along with Rahab the "harlot" from the city of Jericho devoted to destruction) of someone who was preserved. How long he had been with Israel or descended from Jewish ancestry it is uncertain. His behavior certainly indicated that he was serving the Lord as an exceptional example in the army at least.

David was called out by Nathan the Prophet as being the guilty party and Uriah as an innocent man. It is likely that David at first brought him out of battle to go to be with his wife; so that it would appear he was the one rather than David who was the father of the baby. Maybe Bathsheeba knew missing her period she was pregnant; or she would attempt to hide it. Uriah was too loyal to the army to take any liberties for himself with the army in the fields preparing for battle. Eventually David decided to send him to the front lines and feigned life's circumstances as taking him after deliberate setup

Amen Brother Jesse.

I've run across this in my studies as well.

You see a portion of it in the parable of the 10 Virgins.

The first step I believe is called the Betrothal.

You see a sample of this in

Deuteronomy 20:7.

There is a lesson on sanctification, redemption, ect. ect. in this Jewish wedding ritual as well.

This area of study is rich and profitable.

Thanks and God bless you.

Hi Cheryl,

This is a tough scripture, the sons of God and the daughters of men. Some consider the sons of God to be the line of Seth and the daughters of men the line of Cain. Then if we throw in what Jesus said in Matt. 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven, wow.

There is no need for angels in heaven to marry, they are immortal, and no need to reproduce as we will be after the resurrection in the kingdom on the new earth. Angels are called sons of God in Hebrew b'nai Elohim in Job 1:6 Job 2:1 Job 38:7.

Through scripture angels take on human form, they eat and drink Gen. 18:7-8 Gen. 19:3 and physically wrestle with man, Gen. 32:24. If they eat and drink would that mean they have all the organs of man on earth? Scripture tells us there are devils/demons and fallen angels on earth along with Satan but there is another group of angels. These angels are different, they are locked in chains of darkness in the bottomless pit until judgment. 2 Peter 2:4-7 Jude 1:6-7. We see in Rev. 9:11 this pit has a king, and this is where Satan will be locked up for 1000 years.

They left their first estate, heaven and in 2 Peter and Jude it says making them an example, (going after strange flesh), they corrupted God's creation Gen. 6:5-7. Even though there are fallen angels roaming the earth this set of angels God made an example to the others they will be locked in chains of darkness until judgment. We see the devils in Mark 5:9-10 were in fear Jesus might cast them down to the bottomless pit.

We see that this happened again after the flood, Gen. 6:4 "and also after." The description in scripture is clear these are not just tall people. 2 Samuel 21:16 Joshua 12:4 Numbers 13:33 Deuteronomy 2:19-21 Deuteronomy 20:17 Amos 2:9. This is just a small amount of information but may it will help in your study.

God bless,

RLW

Gina,

Rev.19:10 . . . " The testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy." That's the acid test. The reason why this is, is because every born again Christian has in the Holy Spirit, and Jesus said in John 16:13 Hobeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself: but whotsoever he shall hear that he shall speak: and he will shew you things TO COME."

" The testimony of Jesus" is the spirit to fortell the future. The difference between a bible believing Christian and a professing Christian, here is the acid test. DO YOU KNOW FOR CERTAIN WHERE YOU ARE GOING WHEN YOU DIE? DO YOU KNOW FOR CERTAIN WHERE UNSAVED PEOPLE ARE GOING WHEN THEY DID? DO YOU KNOW FOR CERTAIN THE EVENTS THAT ARE GOING TO TAKE PLACE ON THIS EARTH IN THE FUTURE? If you are a born again Christian, you know! If you are a Catholic, a Jew, a Protestant, a Buddhist, a Mohammedan, a Taoist, Hindu, liberal, a modernist, neo-orthodox, Campbellite, Russellite, etc. you don't know for sure.

Amen. Prophecy in the Bible is still ongoing but the last recorded authenticated prophecy was Revelation. To those stating there are prophets beyond John the beloved, I'd ask, "what prophesy are you adding to what's already been told or what do you choose to remove?"

There's a strong warning In Revelation 22: 18&19 to anyone claiming to be a prophet today.

Giannis, thanks for clearing this all up. All these different opinions..gee whiz! What do people think this is, an open forum?

Hi Gina.

I dont believe there's Prophets today that foretells the future as Brother Jesse said. We have the future concerning the people of God in writing. There's nothing new to be revealed.

Also.

God, who at sundry times and in divers manners SPAKE IN TIME PAST unto the fathers by the prophets,

Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Hebrews 1:2.

God bless.

I have had this discussion with a pastor a few years back. He mentions Agabus; who predicted a famine and seemed to think he was off on the prediction. I would hesitate to say that. In any case; clearly a prophet like the one who told Paul that he would go to Jerusalem to die wouldn't win any popularity contests today. Before we attempt to figure out if such an office can exist today; we need to understand that it is not any predictions that are pleasing to a particular political position; national pride; or financial gain of organizations as a prime motive. When we look at Ananias and Sapphira we see another death prediction which with the greed in many circles today it is hard to imagine the fear of God in a place is present at all and when much unbelief exists often the Lord does few things of note. The same could be said of persecution; perhaps if we are not worthy of it God bypasses that as an opportunity for growth.

Surely; during the Tribulation there will be the two prophets on earth. For now; we can certainly say that the canon of scripture is complete (as warnings exist about adding or taking anything away to that book which goes to the eternity future). There are certain things; of course which are conditional when it comes to personal messages as opposed to that of the fate of nations; where God waits until their transgressions are to the full before judgment. ( Daniel 8:23; also see the judgment of Egypt after 400 years; and the Ninevites). A personal prophetic word perhaps would be better defined as a "word of knowledge". Certainly; we can see specific scriptures as applicable to individuals emphasizing a certain message. Only Christ knows the day and hour; when the "restrainer" is removed; thus ushering in the Tribulation when the prophetic manifestations will be in full force. Other than this; of course the many false prophecies; particulary of peace and prosperity are to be expected as Thessalonians bringing in Antichrist.

Giannis GBU And the scripture is very clear that the Testimony of Jesus ( The H.G. ) is the spirit of Prophecy....When he the spirit of truth is come he will TESTIFY of ME... John 15 : 26 kjv....Thus the Testimony of Jesus is the Spirit of Prophecy....But that Prophecy has to line up with Scriptures...But it may not line up with doctrine of the early Church...Simply b/c as Paul said when that which is PERFECT is come that which is done in part will be done away with....Most early Church doctrine was all in parts...We know in part we prophecy in part etc...We see like thru a glass darkly... That Image in Dan 2 was all in parts but it had to be done away with...Even tho the head was of gold....And in Rev. 14 God has to send an angel to preach the everlasting Gospel to ALL THAT DWELL ON THE EARTH...Simply b/c of the great abomination of desolation had set in....Its just like Jesus said...I am the light of the world but the NIGHT comes when no man can work...And Elijah has to come and turn the hearts of the fathers to the Children in that last day... Mal. 4 : 6 kjv...Jesus was yet on the cross when he was calling for Elijah to come.

Part 2.

Should there be prophets/foretellers in a church? The answer is yes. What is/should be their ministry? To give a direct message from God, either to an individual or to the Church itself. How do we sometimes know that a prophesy is not true? It must not contradict the written Word of God. Any revelation, any message by the Holly Spirit, any interpretation of the scripture that doesn't line up with the written Word can not be accepted as true.

I am writting all these because many christians claim that these prophets were not like the ones in the OT. But they are. And they are not teachers. Some christians also insist that all those things were for that ancient time and don't exist any more in the church. But nowhere in the scripture says that they were for those times. They are for all times, just as the whole scripture is for all times. Maybe reject tongues as well. Were tongues for that time too? Were in the scripture says that? Were miracles also for that time? Obviously not. So why prophesying and tongues were for that time? Maybe Baptism in the Spirit was for that time too? Is there according to the scripture an external sign of smb been baptised in the Spirit? Those christians that don't accept tongues wiil tell you no there are not. But if you read the Gospel you will see that tongues is the external sign for it.

So why do we not accept all these? Why don't we get to our Knees and insist in our prayers that God baptises us in His Spirit and talk tongues? You can do that at home. You don't have to go to a specific church. And when all those come to you then what are you going to believe? That they don't exist?

Dear Gina. There is only one way you can find out youself. Try it youself and find out. This is what I recommend to all christians to do. Will God answer back? Definety yes, since this is what He asks us for.

GBU

Part 1

OK, since there are different opinions about this topic let's see what the scripture says about it.

Ephesians 4:11

"And he gave some, apostles; and some, PROPHETS; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and TEACHERS;"

So God gave prophets to the church. There is the idea that these prophets were just teachers. Are they? No, because God gave teachers as well, so prophets must be something different.

Acts 21:8-9

"And the next day we that were of Paul's company departed, and came unto Caesarea: and we entered into the house of Philip the evangelist, which was one of the seven; and abode with him.

And the same man had four daughters, virgins, which did PROPHESY."

Where these virgin daughters teachers? Definitely not, women were not allowed to teach in ancient church. They were virgins, that is little girls. So what were they doing? We'll see later.

Acts 21:10-11

"And as we tarried there many days, there came down from Judaea a certain PROPHET, named Agabus.

And when he was come unto us, he took Paul's girdle, and bound his own hands and feet, and said, Thus saith the Holy Ghost, So shall the Jews at Jerusalem bind the man that owneth this girdle, and shall deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles"

Is this a foretelling? It obviously is.

Acts 19: 1-7

It is too long to write it, but read carefully verse 6:"And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and PROPHESIED." Prophesied? If it means teaching, then to whom they were teaching? To Paul? To theselves?

Please study 1 Corinthians 14. Pay attention to v 24-25

"But if all PROPHESY, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:

And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth" Does it seem to you that prophesying here means teaching? Obviously not.

So must there be prophets/foretellers in a church?

Gina,

There are many today who claim to be prophets and that they have "new revelation" from God. The sad part is that they share what God supposedly revealed to them, and they tell their congregation things like "God gave me this new revelation to give to you."

Are there prophets today? I would say no, not like the Old Testament prophets. Now, can a person today still prophesy? I believe the answer to that is yes. Here's why I say this. To prophesy simply means to speak the word of God. The prophets of old were given direct prophecy from God and they foretold the future. They were "foretellers."

Since we have the complete written word of God today, and at the end of Revelation, God said to seal up this book of prophecy and He also warned about adding to or taking away from the book of prophecy, there can be no new prophecy today.



I mentioned that the prophets of old were fore-tellers. They foretold the future before it happened. But there is a different word for one who prophesies today, and that person would be a "forth-teller," meaning they take the already written word of God and forth tell the already complete prophecy contained in God's word.

I would say that a person can still prophesy today (speak the already written word of God), but what they speak and claim to be prophecy has to line up with the completed prophecy we have today. If what they are saying comes from revelation given to them from God, and it cannot be found in God's word, that person must be labeled a false prophet!

I have a question, Are there Prophets in this day and Time ?

Thank you Jesse! We are free because of the Brave!

Matthew 10:34, Romans 8:38-39, Ecclesiastes 3:1-11,

Genesis 3:24, 1Chronicles 21, 1Chronicles 24:16, Exodus 32:27, read in context Exodus 32, Leviticus 26, Numbers 22, Deuteronomy 13:15, Deuteronomy 20:13, Deuteronomy 32, Jeremiah 50:35-37, Amos 1:11, Amos 9:4-15,

Joshua 5:10-15 continues Joshua 6,

1Samuel 15,

2Kings 6, note 2Kings 6:22, 2Chronicles 23:21, Nehemiah 4, Esther 9, Jeremiah 43:11, Hosea 2:18, Micah 4:3,

Hope these encourage

Thanks for your response.

Dear Sheila

Read Luke 3:14, it is about people going to John the Baptist and ask him what to do:

"14 - And the soldiers likewise demanded of him, saying, And what shall we do? And he said unto them, Do violence to no man, neither accuse any falsely; and be content with your wages."

John didn't ask the soldiers to quit the army. but treat people the right way (they were Roman soldiers occupying a foreign country).

But nevertheless I don't think God likes people killing each other. He didn't make us for that purpose.

GBU

Sheila,

I spent 22 years in the military and during that time, God never once put it on my heart that what I was doing was wrong. There are many instances in the Old Testament where God sent people into battle.

How do God feel about war? Is he against people in the military and military wars

Whose report will you believe?

Psalms 37,

Be not fearful, Mark 4:40, only fear GOD ALMIGHTY Hebrews 10:31, Matthew 8:26, Isaiah 35:4, Revelation 21:7,8, * Deuteronomy 20:8,

Be not suddenly moved, * 2Thessalonians 2:3-17,

Psalms 62:2,6,

Waline A Anthony,

In Genesis 6:4 it talks about the giants, "in those days; and also, after that", We see in those days and also after that we have giants (Nephilim). We see when Israel went into the promised land God gave them a command Deuteronomy 20:16-18. The word giant is Nephilim, which is also in Numbers 13:33, giants after the flood.

The question this raises is, who are the Nephilim and how did they survive the flood? Were these more fallen angels that created more giants? If the Nephilim were indeed half-human/half-angelic then it may explain the many ancient religious views after Babel with demi-gods (half man half god), but we do not find it clearly in scripture.

Also, in the Old Testament, there is the Rephaim (or Rephaites), and the context describes them as giants. The name of these people means "terrible ones" also, refers to departed spirits whose dwelling place was the abyss.

Here are some scriptures that may help your study, Joshua 12:4 2 Samuel 21:16 Also read Joshua 13, 15, 17, 18, 2 Samuel 21 and 1 Chronicles 20.

We do find giants of considerable size. Is there any scripture that tells us where these giants came from? There were not just one or two, but there were many. The descriptions of these giants appear much larger than 8-9 feet tall, a small number of people today.

Numbers 13:33 Deuteronomy 2:19-21 Deuteronomy 20:17 Amos 2:9

Many struggles with there being giants but all over the world history records similarities of myths of giants, were they real? Whatever the case, there is the biblical evidence, plus written accounts outside of the Bible, that giants did exist.

Are the Nephilim and Rephaim the offspring of angels and human women that became demons and evil spirits after the flood that we see in the Bible? In the Bible there are angels which kept not their first estate, but left their habitation and are locked in chains of darkness until judgment.

Study for your conscience may this help, God bless.

RLW

Neville Stewart

There are two primary views on the identity of the sons of God and daughters of men. They were godly descendants of Seth intermarrying with wicked descendants of Cain. The major support for this interpretation is Genesis chapter 4 describes the ungodly generations of Cain, and 5 is the godly Seth line and the righteous line of Seth.

Cain and Seth are both descendants of Adam and Eve so if the descendants of Cain's daughters were fair, so the daughters of Seth would also be fair so, godly vs ungodly would have to be the difference. Nowhere in scripture are the descendants of Seth called "the sons of God", but more as an adoption, "shall be my son" as Solomon and us today, who receive Jesus and are led by the Spirit of God are the sons/ daughters of God. ( 1 Chronicles 17:13) ( 2 Corinthians 6:18)

The other view is angels who left their first estate and mated with women. Angels are called sons of God in Job, ( Job 1:6) ( Job 2:1) ( Job 38:7). Some say angels can not mate because of what Jesus said in ( Matthew 22:29-30). But all through scripture angels take on human form, they eat and drink and if they left their first estate it is possible. Scripture does not give a lot about this; we have 1656 years from Adam to the flood in only 7 chapters of Genesis.

Scripture tells us there are devils, demons, and fallen angels but these angels are different they are locked in chains of darkness in the bottomless pit until judgment. ( 2 Peter 2:4) ( Jude 1: 6). The bottomless pit comes up in Revelation, another study.

Also mentioned are giants/ Nephilim/ Rephaim "in those days; and also after that", before and after the flood. Whether these were offspring of angels' scripture does not tell us. The description in scripture is clear these are not just tall people. ( 2 Samuel 21:16) ( Joshua 12:4) ( Numbers 13:33) ( Deuteronomy 20:17) ( Deuteronomy 2:19-21) ( Amos 2:9).

This is just a small amount of information, maybe it will get you started in your study.

RLW

I'm just going to comment on the skinny of the wars in the Bible.

There were wars that God ALLOWED, and then the wars that God COMMANDED. The book of Joshua is a good book to follow on "wars". It mentions wars and battles.

"WESLEY'S COMMENTARY for Deuteronomy 20:4

20:2 Speak unto the people - Probably to one regiment of the army after another.

20:5 What man - This and the following exceptions are to be understood only of a war allowed by God, not in a war commanded by God, not in the approaching war with the Canaanites, from which even the bridegroom was not exempted, as the Jewish writers note.

20:6 A vineyard - This and the former dispensation were generally convenient, but more necessary in the beginning of their settlement in Canaan, for the encouragement of those who should build houses or plant vineyards, which was chargeable to them, and beneficial to the common - wealth. Eaten of it - Heb. made it common, namely, for the use of himself and family and friends, which it was not, 'till the fifth year."

In a war that God commanded, normal home building, animal care, vineyard planting would have to be entrusted with other family members.

Life doesn't stop because you are of an age to join. People still get married and become fathers.

There is a kind of harmony in the Books of Samuel, Kings, and Chronicles. Also Joshua.

In 1 Corinthians 12:8 is a group of Ministry gifts that may not be in a position to have home, family, possessions, land. They traveled from place to place. Our times are different with trains, planes etc.

I suggest you use Google to search out Commentaries written by different preachers.

In Google type out: book and verse (you wish to study) and then type COMMENTARY after it.

Sounds like a really good subject to study. Come back this way and let us know what you found.

Mishael

God told the officers of the army of Israel to send home all the soldiers who had unfinished business at home: a home he has not used, a vineyard he has not harvested, or an engaged woman he has not married - let them go home.

Deuteronomy 20:5, 6, 7 how to understand the following

...built a new house, and hath not dedicated it?

... planted a vineyard, and hath not yet eaten of it?

... betrothed a wife, and hath not taken her?



does house, wineyard, and wife mean something special?

The command to save trees for food during a siege. Deuteronomy 20:19

When you besiege a city for a long time, while making war against it to take it, you shall not destroy its trees by wielding an ax against them; if you can eat of them, do not cut them down to use in the siege, for the tree of the field is man's food. Only the trees which you know are not trees for food you may destroy and cut down, to build siegeworks against the city that makes war with you, until it is subdued.

a. When you besiege a city for a long time: When an army surrounded a city during a siege, the army would forage around the countryside for supplies. Needing wood for building and fuel, it would be common for the besieging army to cut down trees in the area around the city.

b. Only the trees which you know are not trees for food you may destroy and cut down: However, God commanded Israel against cutting down trees for food when they besieged a city. They had to take a long-term view (one good for the ecology) and see that their immediate need for wood was less important than the long-term good of the area.

You can Google this again if you want. There's one with a longer Jewish view on this verse if that's what you seek.

how i could i access this document on online?

As I'm not here to get into any discussion. Just to note a couple things. So you seem to want to read or speak in old English? Do you have some problem with the letter "J"? You said the name "Jon" did you mean "Ion"? The word "justice" you mean "iustice"?

The Tetragrammaton or the four Hebrew letters of the Lords name "YHWH". Which first off Hebrew is right to left so that is backwards from what it is in Hebrew. The letters pronounced "Yod" "He" "Waw" "He" separate. As you can kind of see where people might pronounce it "YaHWeH". In modern Hebrew "Waw" is "Vav". Where "YaHoVaH" comes from. Although from someone who speaks Hebrew it is probably pronounced different than I might say it in English.

Iesus is not pronounced "Jee-Zus" as you state. If some people can't pronounce the first "s" as an "s" that's not my problem and to me no big deal anyway. The Lord searches hearts not how you exactly pronounce something.

These types of things about the name of the Lord very much sadden me and bring much division between people. I was saved by the name Jesus Christ. We truly should set our hearts on things of above. The Word. In the Holy Bible. Love is the key. To produce good fruit for our Father in Heaven and make Him happy. Find real relationship. There is nothing wrong with searching for the truth. Although the internet is flooded with false things. We must be sober and vigilant. Let the Holy Spirit guide you if you have been blessed to receive.

Please don't take what I wrote the wrong way. You must be expecting friction here with the things you posted. I will not be writing on this again but I felt to leave a post.

God Bless you in your journey.

Hello AyinRaah,

I agree with the verse you shared, but do not agree with your interpretation of it.

It says: "but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them."

That means Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob did not know His name. That's all it says.

However, your interpreted that to mean more than what it actually says, "God said very clearly, those who call me by "Jehova" do not know me,"

No, God did not say that. For example, you don't know my name unless I volunteer it to you. That doesn't mean somehow that if you say my name that you magically don't know me- or that you would be disowned if you said it.

It's important to read the Bible literally and to not inadvertently add to it.

This is the correct Bible verse.

Link

"And I appeared vnto Abraham, vnto Isaac, and vnto Iacob, by the Name of God Almighty, but by my name IEHOVAH was I not knowen to them."

YHWH's name is not pronounced [Yah-How-Wha] phonetically. Similarly, Iesus's name is not pronounced "Yeh-Shoo-Ah". His name is repeated throughout scripture as Iesus [Jee-Zus].

YHWH's is referred to as "The All Mighty", "The Alpha and Omega", "I Am", "Breath of Life". Saying [Yah-Way], or [Jeh-Ho-Vah] is not his name. YHWH are the letter that express the Lord's name. Similarly, you would call someone name "Jon" [Jay-Oh-En]. It's like trying to say his name by speaking out letters.

Hi AyinRaah.

Are you referring to this verse?

Exodus 6:3 (KJV) And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.