Giannis, thanks for the updated information. I know that the Muslims believe Muhammed ascended from the temple mount. I had heard of their version of the lineage going through iIshmael not Isaac, and that the dome of the rock as the place of Abraham's sacrifice. So I mispoke. Thanks for the clarification.
You wrote, " ... the Mosque on the Dome of the Rock. This was to intentionally desecrate the most holy site of the Jews"
Not really. The muslims like the Jews and christians believe in the OT but with a very important difference. They consider God's blessing and promise to Abraham goes down the line of Ishmael and hence to the Arabs who come from him.
The Temple of Solomon was said to have been built on the mountain (a hill or a rock actually) where Abraham was to sacrifice Isaac. The Holy of the Hollies, the most sacred part of that temple is said to be exactlly at the point were Abraham prepared the altar for the sacrifice of his son. The Arabs, although they wrongly believe that the promise went down to Ishmael, still honor Abraham and Isaac. So when they built the Mosque of the Dome, they built it exactly where the Temple of Solomon was located (before the Romans destroyed it). Inside the mosque there is nothing else but a place which is fenced. That place is just a natural land, where they claim it was the place of the Holy of the Holies and where the sacrifice was to take place. So they didn't built that mosque in order to desecrate the Jewish Temple but actually to honor Abraham and Isaac. Just for information.
The Jews that already lived in the Levant and more Jews emigrated over the last 70 years to this homeland. Moslem Arabs in the area have never wanted to co-exist with Jews in this land. And the Jews wish to reclaim the land areas promised to the nation of Israel in the Old Testament. Thus the present ongoing conflicts and this weeks war that resulted from the assault on the people in Israel by Hamas funded and fueled by Iran. It is a perilous time for those in this area, both Jew and Arab. Many non-militant people are caught up in this conflict. So very concerning.
We can pray for God's will to be accomplished in this arena for all people involved. This small sliver of land in or big world has been fought over since time immemorial and peace or independence has not lasted long there for the nation of Israel over the centuries. Much of this is because of the disobedience, idolatry, and lack of faith among the Jews. God had promised to punish them when they live this way. But the Muslim Arabs do not want any sort of peace or any presence of Jews in the area or for there to be a country of Israel at all. They made sure that they desecrated the Temple Mount (if this is the true site of the temple or the Praetorium of the Roman Anatonia Fortress is yet to be determined) with the Mosque on the Dome of the Rock. This was to intentionally desecrate the most holy site of the Jews. And yet, it still stands without Israel tearing down the mosque. With nations that are predominately Islamic all around Israel and the world it is so telling that the Moslems cannot tolerate a Jewish nation. They probably would not tolerate a Christian one in that region either, considering their history over the centuries. So many Christian nations overtaken by Islam. So sad for the believers in these countries.
Having a Moslem daughter-in-law and a son who converted to marry her in our family is concerning for my husband and I. We pray and hope that things will change for them to be saved.
What is interesting to me is that the LORD had the Israelites enter Canaan from the east and destroying the eastern strongholds of the giants first. There must have been a reason for this in the mind of God. Perhaps these two kings were so very powerful and maybe held sway over many of the peoples on the west side of the Jordan. Maybe there was more intense wickedness in this part than across the Jordan. Maybe God wanted to eliminate the threats to Ammon, Moab and Edom to show them that He is the strong God and worthy of their worship so that they may turn back to Him. But it is true that in the times ensuing that these peoples did not turn to YHWH, but instead continued to dig in their heels into the idolatry they had chosen and became hostile to Israel in the centuries following the conquest.
This area of the promised land is now held by Jordan mostly. And Gaza held by Hamas. Most of these "Palestinians" are of Arab descent that entered the lands from the Islamic conquest of the Levant. The Philistines were pretty much eliminated by Babylon at the time of the captivity of Judah and Assyrian captivity of Israel. From the time of the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. it seems that the land of the Levant was inhabited by Jews, Samaritans, Christians, and other ethnicities forming a mixture of peoples until the Islamic conquests in the 7th century. The Arabs moved into the area. But the crusades retook the area for a time only to lose it again to the Moslems. Egypt took over the area for a time, and then the Ottomon Empire held control. eventually the British and French took over the whole land of Palestine. At the turn of the 10th century the Balfour agreement sought to establish a Jewish Homeland. And this was accomplished in 1948.
At first, in the negotiations with the Arabs and Jews, a two state proposal was suggested. The jews agreed, but Arabs repeatedly refused. So here we are almost a century later. The Arabs in Palestine are not original to the area.
The land was distributed among Reuben, Gad and the half-tribe of Manasseh as agreed in the wilderness. But the men of these tribes were commanded to accompany all their brethren into the rest of Canaan to conquer and subdue it for their possession as a nation. Their wives, children, and livestock could remain in the cities they conquered east of the Jordan, though. the cities there were walled and fortified by the Amorites they displaced, so their families would live in safety while they went to war with the other tribes. They could return when the rest of the nation had completed the campaign of taking possession and had rest at last.
God encourages Johsua, reminding him of how God had brought the victories for His people so profoundly and to therefore have courage and not fear as he takes the lead in bringing the people over the Jordan. God promises to fight for them and the promise to take possession will be fulfilled by the hand of God.
It is always a good thing to recall all of the ways God has helped us in our life, in the lives of other believers we know, and in the lives of people in biblical history. The faithfulness of God over the ages and in the present encourages us and gives us boldness to trust in His promises and in the strength that He will give us to face the giants in our lives.
After all of this, Moses turns to the LORD and asks to be allowed to enter the land and view it all the way to Lebanon. But it says that God was angry that Moses asked Him this, saying, essentially, Enough! do not speak of this any more to me, you will not go into the land. But says that Moses will go up mt. Pisgah and will be able to view the whole of the land from their. God did the same thing with Abraham in Gn. 13:14.
The chapter ends with God telling Moses to encourage and strengthen Joshua as he would be the one to enter the land with the people and take possession as its military captain and spiritual leader.
This chapter retells the taking of Bashon and conquering Og, a Rephaim giant and king of the region, perhaps even peoples over the Jordan as well.
Numbers 21 says that the people of Moab served the idol Chemosh (which is the same as Molech) which involved sacrificing children by passing them through fire to be burned at the idol statue of Chemosh. This idol statue was huge, perhaps because the people of this area were giants and Sihon and Og even bigger giants than those further mixed with normal people and giants. The text in verse 29 says that this idol, Chemosh had failed the Moabites and given many of the sons and daughters of the leaders of Moab over to be slaves of Sihon, who had defeated the king of Moab and taken the land from the Moabites. The Moabites had turned away from the true God to hideous idols.
After taking all of the land and destroyed the cities and people of the kingdom of Sihon, the LORD leads the people to take over the land of Bashan of Og. First, they sent out spies to look over the land strategically. As they marched towards Og's stronghold, Og came out against them with all of his people. The land was known as the Valley of giants, so most likely most of the people of Bashan were giants. God promised Moses that they would do to Og what they did to Sihon, king of the giant Amorites. Moses lead Israel into battle and smote Og and his sons, and all the people until none were left alive, taking all the fortified cities, leaving no inhabitants alive. Again, they kept the cattle for themselves along with all the spoil of the cities. They took possession of the land of Bashan.
After explaining the boundaries and various areas of the land east of the Jordan that the Israelites now possessed, it is said that Og was the last of the Raphaim. There still were many giants in the land of Canaan, but it seems that Sihon and Og may have been two of the original Raphaim that emerged post flood, from whom the giants descended.
Giants have been around since time began; they are first described in the Bible in the book of Genesis (6:1-4)
In Deuteronomy 3:11, and later in the book of Numbers and Joshua, Og is called the last of the Rephaim. Rephaim is a Hebrew word for giants.
In 1 Enoch, they were "great giants, whose height was three thousand ells". An Ell being 18 inches (45 centimetres), this would make them 4500 feet (nearly a mile) tall (1350 metres).
The Book of Giants is similar, and most closely relates, to 1 Enoch 7:3-6, a passage which sheds light on the characterizing features of the giants. It reveals that the giants were born of the Watcher 'sons of God' and the 'daughters of men.
It is indeed sad to read Deuteronomy 3:26 with Moses feeling cut off from the Lord. All he wanted was to enter the Promised Land which he yearned for but was denied this before his death. And so it is when we enter into a state of wilful disobedience, grieving the Lord, especially when that disobedience is prompted by unrighteous anger & self-elevation ( Numbers 20:7-13).
And then we read Deuteronomy 4:21-31, a part of Moses' final message to the children of Israel. We do read here of Moses' warning to them if they should reject the Lord by serving other gods. That if they did so, God would reject them by scattering them amongst the nations (as happened in the Assyrian & Babylonian captivity and also at the Jewish Diaspora resulting from Roman rule). So yes, this was a prophetical message by Moses, which ultimately Israel did not heed & so suffered terribly. But Moses also rehearsed before the people of God's goodness towards them in bringing them out of bondage in Egypt & into a land that flowed with milk & honey ( Exodus 3:16,17; Deuteronomy 1:6-8), but this generally came with a warning to remain faithful to the Lord.
thanks for your explanation. I believe this also indicates anything from God are good!
it's sort of sad to read some verses here, such as Deuteronomy 3:26 "the LORD said unto me, Let it suffice thee; speak no more unto me of this matter." when Moses was pleading to Lord to let him into Canaan.
like his forefathers(Abraham, Isaac, Jacob) prophesying/blessing their descendants before death, was verses of Deuteronomy 4:25-30 from Moses that prophesying future of Israelites? was he able to tell something good only?
Scripture concerning other "flesh," accounting for a male and female representative of each race to come aboard the Ark can be verified through Scripture. This can absolutely account for the other races of people on the earth after the flood of Noah's time, look at ( Genesis 6:17, 6:19, 7:15, 16, etc.).
The Strong's definition of "Gentile" is a "FOREIGN" nation from the nation of Israel. If there is no foreign nation to Israel because we are all from Adam, then what FOREIGN lands are the children of Noah proceeding into in Genesis 10:5?
"By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations."
Who are the "Gentiles"? How are the Gentiles a product of Adam if the Gentiles are FOREIGN to Adam? It can't be both ways.
The information concerning the "giants" being on the earth after the flood is also verified by Scripture in Genesis 6:4, "and also after that," also look at Numbers 13:33, Deuteronomy 3:11. If the "Sons of God" mentioned in Genesis 6:2, 4, are not fallen angels, then who do "giants" come from? Humans' mating with humans does not produce a giant. Neither does a change in one's geographical location, nor a confusion of language, will change the ethnicity of a particular race.
If God said that "ALL FLESH" ( Genesis 6:17) would be destroyed that breathed the breath of life, how did the giants survive? Answer- because He told us they survived in Genesis 6:4. The great whales and sea creatures that breathe air survived, but we are not told that. We are told what we need to know. God uses both literal and figurative language, and it is our job to figure it all out. What we do know is that the word of God is the Truth.
The information given concerning other "flesh," accounting for a male and female representative of each race to come aboard the Ark can be verified through Scripture. This can absolutely account for the other races of people on the earth after the flood of Noah's time, look at ( Genesis 6:17, 6:19, 7:15, 16, etc.).
The Strong's definition of "Gentile" is a "FOREIGN" nation from the nation of Israel. If there is no foreign nation to Israel because we are all from Adam, then what FOREIGN lands are the children of Noah proceeding into in Genesis 10:5? "By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations." Who are the "Gentiles"? How are the Gentiles a product of Adam if the Gentiles are FOREIGN to Adam? It can't be both ways.
The information concerning the "giants" being on the earth after the flood is also verified by Scripture in Genesis 6:4, "and also after that," also look at Numbers 13:33, Deuteronomy 3:11. If the "Sons of God" mentioned in Genesis 6:2, 4, are not fallen angels, then who do "giants" come from? Humans' mating with humans does not produce a giant.
If God said that "ALL FLESH" ( Genesis 6:17) would be destroyed that breathed the breath of life, how did the giants survive? Answer- because He told us they survived in Genesis 6:4. The great whales and sea creatures that breathe air survived, but we are not told that. We are told what we need to know. God uses both literal and figurative language, and it is our job to figure it all out. What we do know is that the word of God is the Truth.
How do we still have other races after the flood? The answer is because He has told us that throughout all of Scripture. God said that these nations of the earth would be against the nation of Israel for Israel's correction ( Isaiah 10:5), and that these nations would also be blessed at the end ( Isaiah 19:25).
We understand from Numbers 20:7-13, that Moses disobeyed God at the waters of Meribah by striking & not speaking to the rock to bring out much needed water. As well, there seems to be a failure by Moses to give God the Glory for this miracle & allowed the people to assume that it was done in his own power. So Moses was prevented from entering the Promised Land but could only view it afar off ( Deut 34) & died there on top of Mt. Pisgah & God buried him in the land of Moab, in a place not revealed (v6).
I know og bed was 13.5 foot but that don't mean he was that big. When i was 11-14 i slept in a 8ft bed. Was i 8ft tall at that age? No. I just slept in a big bed. So this dose not mean he was 13ft tall. Not saying he was'nt a gaint because it say he was. could have been about 10ft tall.
I agree with Garfield in that God is merciful to his Children, those who he has claimed from the time of Abraham, has he claimed us, all the tribes of Israel, will inherit if we are obediant and don't be froward and presumpous to rely on our own wisdom or worship that which we make with our hands and gove not the glory to God. Like Herod who when he made a proclaimation took the credit as King and was eaten of worms. God is not slack to reward those who follow his ways or to forsake those who forsake him in this world, or who follow after the kings of this earth instead of the Lord who created heaven and earth, the seas and all that lives therein.
The Lord God is so patient and long sufffering to his people. He will only give us the very best that not only blesses us, but also blesses our children and our childrens' children. We must be obedient to his commandments and in that we will have good success always. God does not honor disobedince as we see with Moses his servant. Many of us can testify of God's action to Moses in our own lives when we are disobedient to what ever he says. Look at all of what he did for the children of Israel when they followed him. He gave them what he said he will them if they will be obedient and follow him. These things are written for our learning so we can inherit the heavenly Canan and posess the blessings he will bless us with on earth if we would walk after his commandments.
You wrote, " ... the Mosque on the Dome of the Rock. This was to intentionally desecrate the most holy site of the Jews"
Not really. The muslims like the Jews and christians believe in the OT but with a very important difference. They consider God's blessing and promise to Abraham goes down the line of Ishmael and hence to the Arabs who come from him.
The Temple of Solomon was said to have been built on the mountain (a hill or a rock actually) where Abraham was to sacrifice Isaac. The Holy of the Hollies, the most sacred part of that temple is said to be exactlly at the point were Abraham prepared the altar for the sacrifice of his son. The Arabs, although they wrongly believe that the promise went down to Ishmael, still honor Abraham and Isaac. So when they built the Mosque of the Dome, they built it exactly where the Temple of Solomon was located (before the Romans destroyed it). Inside the mosque there is nothing else but a place which is fenced. That place is just a natural land, where they claim it was the place of the Holy of the Holies and where the sacrifice was to take place. So they didn't built that mosque in order to desecrate the Jewish Temple but actually to honor Abraham and Isaac. Just for information.
We can pray for God's will to be accomplished in this arena for all people involved. This small sliver of land in or big world has been fought over since time immemorial and peace or independence has not lasted long there for the nation of Israel over the centuries. Much of this is because of the disobedience, idolatry, and lack of faith among the Jews. God had promised to punish them when they live this way. But the Muslim Arabs do not want any sort of peace or any presence of Jews in the area or for there to be a country of Israel at all. They made sure that they desecrated the Temple Mount (if this is the true site of the temple or the Praetorium of the Roman Anatonia Fortress is yet to be determined) with the Mosque on the Dome of the Rock. This was to intentionally desecrate the most holy site of the Jews. And yet, it still stands without Israel tearing down the mosque. With nations that are predominately Islamic all around Israel and the world it is so telling that the Moslems cannot tolerate a Jewish nation. They probably would not tolerate a Christian one in that region either, considering their history over the centuries. So many Christian nations overtaken by Islam. So sad for the believers in these countries.
Having a Moslem daughter-in-law and a son who converted to marry her in our family is concerning for my husband and I. We pray and hope that things will change for them to be saved.
This area of the promised land is now held by Jordan mostly. And Gaza held by Hamas. Most of these "Palestinians" are of Arab descent that entered the lands from the Islamic conquest of the Levant. The Philistines were pretty much eliminated by Babylon at the time of the captivity of Judah and Assyrian captivity of Israel. From the time of the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. it seems that the land of the Levant was inhabited by Jews, Samaritans, Christians, and other ethnicities forming a mixture of peoples until the Islamic conquests in the 7th century. The Arabs moved into the area. But the crusades retook the area for a time only to lose it again to the Moslems. Egypt took over the area for a time, and then the Ottomon Empire held control. eventually the British and French took over the whole land of Palestine. At the turn of the 10th century the Balfour agreement sought to establish a Jewish Homeland. And this was accomplished in 1948.
At first, in the negotiations with the Arabs and Jews, a two state proposal was suggested. The jews agreed, but Arabs repeatedly refused. So here we are almost a century later. The Arabs in Palestine are not original to the area.
God encourages Johsua, reminding him of how God had brought the victories for His people so profoundly and to therefore have courage and not fear as he takes the lead in bringing the people over the Jordan. God promises to fight for them and the promise to take possession will be fulfilled by the hand of God.
It is always a good thing to recall all of the ways God has helped us in our life, in the lives of other believers we know, and in the lives of people in biblical history. The faithfulness of God over the ages and in the present encourages us and gives us boldness to trust in His promises and in the strength that He will give us to face the giants in our lives.
After all of this, Moses turns to the LORD and asks to be allowed to enter the land and view it all the way to Lebanon. But it says that God was angry that Moses asked Him this, saying, essentially, Enough! do not speak of this any more to me, you will not go into the land. But says that Moses will go up mt. Pisgah and will be able to view the whole of the land from their. God did the same thing with Abraham in Gn. 13:14.
The chapter ends with God telling Moses to encourage and strengthen Joshua as he would be the one to enter the land with the people and take possession as its military captain and spiritual leader.
And then they abode at Beth-Peor.
Numbers 21 says that the people of Moab served the idol Chemosh (which is the same as Molech) which involved sacrificing children by passing them through fire to be burned at the idol statue of Chemosh. This idol statue was huge, perhaps because the people of this area were giants and Sihon and Og even bigger giants than those further mixed with normal people and giants. The text in verse 29 says that this idol, Chemosh had failed the Moabites and given many of the sons and daughters of the leaders of Moab over to be slaves of Sihon, who had defeated the king of Moab and taken the land from the Moabites. The Moabites had turned away from the true God to hideous idols.
After taking all of the land and destroyed the cities and people of the kingdom of Sihon, the LORD leads the people to take over the land of Bashan of Og. First, they sent out spies to look over the land strategically. As they marched towards Og's stronghold, Og came out against them with all of his people. The land was known as the Valley of giants, so most likely most of the people of Bashan were giants. God promised Moses that they would do to Og what they did to Sihon, king of the giant Amorites. Moses lead Israel into battle and smote Og and his sons, and all the people until none were left alive, taking all the fortified cities, leaving no inhabitants alive. Again, they kept the cattle for themselves along with all the spoil of the cities. They took possession of the land of Bashan.
After explaining the boundaries and various areas of the land east of the Jordan that the Israelites now possessed, it is said that Og was the last of the Raphaim. There still were many giants in the land of Canaan, but it seems that Sihon and Og may have been two of the original Raphaim that emerged post flood, from whom the giants descended.
Giants have been around since time began; they are first described in the Bible in the book of Genesis (6:1-4)
In Deuteronomy 3:11, and later in the book of Numbers and Joshua, Og is called the last of the Rephaim. Rephaim is a Hebrew word for giants.
In 1 Enoch, they were "great giants, whose height was three thousand ells". An Ell being 18 inches (45 centimetres), this would make them 4500 feet (nearly a mile) tall (1350 metres).
The Book of Giants is similar, and most closely relates, to 1 Enoch 7:3-6, a passage which sheds light on the characterizing features of the giants. It reveals that the giants were born of the Watcher 'sons of God' and the 'daughters of men.
And then we read Deuteronomy 4:21-31, a part of Moses' final message to the children of Israel. We do read here of Moses' warning to them if they should reject the Lord by serving other gods. That if they did so, God would reject them by scattering them amongst the nations (as happened in the Assyrian & Babylonian captivity and also at the Jewish Diaspora resulting from Roman rule). So yes, this was a prophetical message by Moses, which ultimately Israel did not heed & so suffered terribly. But Moses also rehearsed before the people of God's goodness towards them in bringing them out of bondage in Egypt & into a land that flowed with milk & honey ( Exodus 3:16,17; Deuteronomy 1:6-8), but this generally came with a warning to remain faithful to the Lord.
it's sort of sad to read some verses here, such as Deuteronomy 3:26 "the LORD said unto me, Let it suffice thee; speak no more unto me of this matter." when Moses was pleading to Lord to let him into Canaan.
like his forefathers(Abraham, Isaac, Jacob) prophesying/blessing their descendants before death, was verses of Deuteronomy 4:25-30 from Moses that prophesying future of Israelites? was he able to tell something good only?
Page 2
Scripture concerning other "flesh," accounting for a male and female representative of each race to come aboard the Ark can be verified through Scripture. This can absolutely account for the other races of people on the earth after the flood of Noah's time, look at ( Genesis 6:17, 6:19, 7:15, 16, etc.).
The Strong's definition of "Gentile" is a "FOREIGN" nation from the nation of Israel. If there is no foreign nation to Israel because we are all from Adam, then what FOREIGN lands are the children of Noah proceeding into in Genesis 10:5?
"By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations."
Who are the "Gentiles"? How are the Gentiles a product of Adam if the Gentiles are FOREIGN to Adam? It can't be both ways.
The information concerning the "giants" being on the earth after the flood is also verified by Scripture in Genesis 6:4, "and also after that," also look at Numbers 13:33, Deuteronomy 3:11. If the "Sons of God" mentioned in Genesis 6:2, 4, are not fallen angels, then who do "giants" come from? Humans' mating with humans does not produce a giant. Neither does a change in one's geographical location, nor a confusion of language, will change the ethnicity of a particular race.
If God said that "ALL FLESH" ( Genesis 6:17) would be destroyed that breathed the breath of life, how did the giants survive? Answer- because He told us they survived in Genesis 6:4. The great whales and sea creatures that breathe air survived, but we are not told that. We are told what we need to know. God uses both literal and figurative language, and it is our job to figure it all out. What we do know is that the word of God is the Truth.
Page 2
The information given concerning other "flesh," accounting for a male and female representative of each race to come aboard the Ark can be verified through Scripture. This can absolutely account for the other races of people on the earth after the flood of Noah's time, look at ( Genesis 6:17, 6:19, 7:15, 16, etc.).
The Strong's definition of "Gentile" is a "FOREIGN" nation from the nation of Israel. If there is no foreign nation to Israel because we are all from Adam, then what FOREIGN lands are the children of Noah proceeding into in Genesis 10:5? "By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations." Who are the "Gentiles"? How are the Gentiles a product of Adam if the Gentiles are FOREIGN to Adam? It can't be both ways.
The information concerning the "giants" being on the earth after the flood is also verified by Scripture in Genesis 6:4, "and also after that," also look at Numbers 13:33, Deuteronomy 3:11. If the "Sons of God" mentioned in Genesis 6:2, 4, are not fallen angels, then who do "giants" come from? Humans' mating with humans does not produce a giant.
If God said that "ALL FLESH" ( Genesis 6:17) would be destroyed that breathed the breath of life, how did the giants survive? Answer- because He told us they survived in Genesis 6:4. The great whales and sea creatures that breathe air survived, but we are not told that. We are told what we need to know. God uses both literal and figurative language, and it is our job to figure it all out. What we do know is that the word of God is the Truth.
How do we still have other races after the flood? The answer is because He has told us that throughout all of Scripture. God said that these nations of the earth would be against the nation of Israel for Israel's correction ( Isaiah 10:5), and that these nations would also be blessed at the end ( Isaiah 19:25).
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