Discuss Ecclesiastes 12 Page 4

Genesis 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

Genesis 18:27 And Abraham answered and said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord, which am but dust and ashes:

Job 4:19 How much less in them that dwell in houses of clay, whose foundation is in the dust, which are crushed before the moth?

Psalms 103:14, Psalms 104:29 , -- Ecclesiastes 3:20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

We haven't cremated any of our family, no plans to. But I wouldn't think it makes a difference.

Ecclesiastes 12:13-14 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

Ezekiel 33:11-20

( Matthew 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 12:35-36 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.

36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.

37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

Matthew 13:37-43

( John 5:26-29

( Romans 2:2-11

( Romans 6:1-2

( Romans 6:15-23

( James 2:14-20

( 1 Peter 4:16-19

( 2 Peter 2:20-22 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

In the King James Translation (KJT) of Psalm 90:10, the word "strength" occurs twice.

In the expression, "if by reason of strength ", the word "strength" translates from a Hebrew word which literally means human endurance pertaining to longevity according to age.

In the subsequent expression, "yet is their strength ", the word "strength" translates from an entirely different Hebrew word than that in the previous expression. Now, the word "strength" from the Hebrew literally describes a prideful boast. Yet, this boast seems of a mocking kind, for those of advanced age can only "boast" of their extreme pain and debilities. Their daily living consists of "labor and sorrow" due to their physical body's extreme weaknesses, and even due to their sicknesses and diseases which often exists. Even in the absence of sickness, the bodies of the extremely old will surely give out and die.

Consider Solomon's pessimistic outlook regarding the human body's aging as recorded in Ecclesiastes 12:3-7.

The Hebraic meaning of the word translated "labor" describes the misery involved in performing even the simplest tasks required for living comfortably and of taking care of the human body.

The Hebraic meaning of the word translated "sorrow" describes the lingering effects of guilt and regret attached to former sins of which the aged must live. Note that the same Hebrew word, translated here into "sorrow", also translates into "iniquity", an especially grievous sin of perversity, at least forty-seven times in the KJT, and also into other words such as "wicked" or "wickedness" as well as "vanity" and "unrighteous".

These descriptions seem very pessimistic and even fatalistic in nature, yet redeemed Christians take great comfort in their DIVINE REDEEMER and SAVIOR by living under the principles of verses twelve through fifteen.

1 Thessalonians 5:23: "And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ."

As the Apostle Paul believed & is indeed the case, we are a type of trinity, without any one aspect of our make-up, we cease to be the creation that God made. The 'body' part is easy: we see it & most people give very little thought to any other aspect of our being. Yet, God has given it to us so that the 'real' parts of us can be 'housed' & that both the visible & invisible parts of us are accountable to God, unlike some who believe that we can do whatever we like with & through our bodies.

Genesis 2:7: "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."

Even though the word 'soul' can be used almost interchangeably with 'spirit', I think we should understand it as "the life of a person". And in that 'life' we also have our faculties, emotions, reasoning powers, etc.

However, I see that the 'spirit' given to man is quite different. Proverbs 20:27, "The spirit of man is the candle of the LORD, searching all the inward parts of the belly (heart)." God gives both man & animals a spirit. In man, God can minister or speak to us. So one might be 'spiritually alive' which means, being receptive to God/to spiritual things, ( 1 Corinthians 2:9-11). Or one is 'spiritually dead', having no spiritual discernment or is so hindered by Satan, that he no longer is moved by God. Of what sort the spirit in animals is, I don't know, except for what Ecclesiastes 3:21 tells us.

But when we die, our spirits return to the Lord ( Ecclesiastes 12:7): we are not only accountable to God for our lives, but also we are indestructible, or the body can be destroyed but the spirit lives on, whether with God or with Satan.

Matthew chapter 22 verses 23 to 32 I believe answers this very well when Jesus talks to the Sadducees with respect to the resurrection. as in verse 30 "For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven."

No, but there will be food. The Tree of Life will be available to everybody.

Our first day in heaven after the Rapture we will be attending a Wedding FEAST.

My kid didn't want to go to heaven if there wasn't going to be pizza (he was 9) and the Holy Spirit said there would be pizza :D

I was shocked too lol.

Chris, I would suggest that you read my post a little more carefully. My quote "Speaking about man's death, Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it." end quote, and yet you would totally misrepresent my post.

I feel it is a waste of my time in responding further, as you have knowingly misquoted me since my quote was clear and concise. I praise God and always Thank Jesus for trials which will strengthen us. You will be in my prayers.

When writing about the soul, the Bible writers used the Hebrew word nephesh or the Greek word psykhe. These two words occur well over 800 times in the Scriptures, and the New World Translation renders them "soul," either in the main text or in footnotes. When you examine the way "soul" or "souls" is used in the Bible, it becomes evident that this word basically refers to people and the life that a person has.

"In Noah's day . . . a few people, that is, eight souls, were carried safely through the water." ( 1 Peter 3:20) Here the word "souls" clearly stands for people-Noah, his wife, his three sons, and their wives.

You will find another examples of this sense of "soul" in the text found at Matthew 10:39'

Some people think that "spirit" is just another word for "soul." However, that is not the case. The Bible makes clear that "spirit" and "soul" refer to two different things.

Bible writers used the Hebrew word ruach or the Greek word pneuma when writing about the "spirit." The Scriptures themselves indicate the meaning of those words.

For instance, Psalm 104:29 states: "If you [God] take away their spirit [ruach], they die and return to the dust."

Speaking about man's death, Ecclesiastes 12:7 states: "The dust [of his body] returns to the earth, just as it was, and the spirit returns to the true God who gave it." When the spirit, or life-force, leaves the body, the body dies and returns to where it came from-the earth. Comparably, the life-force returns to where it came from-God. ( Job 34:14, 15; Psalm 36:9)

This does not mean that the life-force actually travels to heaven. Rather, it means that for someone who dies, the time of future life rests with God. The time frame is in God's hands, so to speak. Only by God's power can the spirit, or life-force, be given back so that a person may live again.

Praise God. Thank You Jesus.

Hi Nancy, since I wrote to you on this matter, I will respond again. As we know, that "God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth." ( John 4:24). That is, God in His Essence is a Spiritual Being without a body as we know. And in His fullness, He has shown to us His Word & His Spirit that are Him & proceed from Him. The Word we know was given a Body for the purposes of bringing God's Message to His people & to lay down His Life for mankind ( John 1:1-14; 3:16). God's Spirit was sent out of God's Being to accomplish His Purposes on Earth, including the indwelling of the believer, returns back to God when God's Will has been fully accomplished on Earth.

Even though I can't give you any clear Scripture to show God withdrawing His Spirit back into Himself, we have to surmise in our understanding of all of revealed Scripture we have, that as God sends out His Word & His Spirit, He must also withdraw them when His Work is done. Romans 8:26,27 tells us that the Holy Spirit helps us in our prayers, when we are ignorant on how to pray or what to pray. And it says that the Spirit helps us by lifting our 'deficient, uninformed' prayers to the Father, with His 'groans' or 'utterances' which we don't perceive. This the Spirit does because of His constant connection to the Godhead (as even Jesus had & enjoyed on Earth), & He is well able to translate our prayers into valid utterances that conform to the Will of God. But there are times that we ask (from the flesh) outside of God's Will (see James 4:3) & our prayers go no further than our ceiling.

So when the Spirit returns to God at the appointed time, we can't conclude that the Spirit will not again be sent out to fulfil another purpose of God. Where we fail in our understanding is that, since as humans we can't do what God does, so we conclude, that God can't do it either. Just as our spirits return to God Who gave it ( Ecclesiastes 12:7), so will His Holy Spirit return to the Godhead.

2 Timothy 2:15

Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Ecclesiastes 12:12

And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the Flesh.

1 Thessalonians 4:11

And that ye study to be quiet, and to do your own business, and to work with your own hands, as we commanded you;

1 Corinthians 11:19

For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.

((My comment: that You will shine as gold))

Romans 14:18

For he that in these things serveth Christ, is acceptable to God, and approved of men.

2 Corinthians 13:7

Now I pray to God that ye do no evil; not that we should appear approved, but that ye should do that which is honest:

See if your Church has mentoring classes.

Google, street ministry classes online; and see what all that entails. Evangelism is faith with feet. And a whole lot of scripture under the Belt of Truth.

My prayers go with you, Mishael

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1 Chronicles 28:7 Moreover I will establish his kingdom for ever, [if] he be [constant] to [do] my commandments [and] my judgments, as at this day.

1 John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and [keepeth not] his commandments, [is a liar], and [the truth is not in him].

Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they [that keep] the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Exodus 16:28 And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to [keep] my commandments and [my laws?]

Deuteronomy 6:25 And it shall be our righteousness, [if] we observe to [do all] these commandments before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us.

1 Kings 8:61 Let your heart therefore be [perfect] with the LORD our God, to [walk] in his statutes, and to [keep] his commandments, as at this day.

Psalms 119:21 Thou hast rebuked the [proud] that are [cursed], which [do err] from thy commandments.

Ecclesiastes 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and [keep] his commandments: for this is the [whole duty] of man.

1 John 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we [keep] his commandments, and [do] those things that are pleasing in his sight.

1 John 3:24 And he that [keepeth] his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

Deuteronomy 11:28 And a [curse], if ye will [not obey] the commandments of the LORD your God, but turn aside out of the way which I command you this day, to go after other gods, which ye have not known.

Proverbs 4:4 He taught me also, and said unto me, Let thine heart retain my words: [keep] my commandments, and [live].

Proverbs 10:8 The [wise] in heart [will] receive commandments: but a [prating fool shall fall].

Revelation 22:14 Blessed are [they] that [do] his commandments, that [they] may have right to the tree of life, and [may enter] in through the gates into the city.

When we read the whole chapter, we see the context and truth. Look at the very next verse: "Therefore remove sorrow from thy heart, and put away evil from thy flesh: FOR CHILDHOOD AND YOUTH ARE VANITY." This is great example of how foolish it is to take a single verse out of context to mean anything we want. We do not have the Spirit of Christ if we do that.

Look what God tells us when we read the final 2 verses of Ecclesiastes - He literally tells us our ENTIRE duty as men and women.

"Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: FOR THIS IS THE WHOLE DUTY OF MAN. For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil." Ecclesiastes 12:13-14

How easy it is to miss the truth when we take a single verse out of context to mean whatever we want.

Adam was alive spirit, soul, body; until he and Eve ate the fruit. In Genesis 3:22 we see the Godhead conversing about how to protect the Tree of Life. It's not where it was, now: Revelation 22:2.

Since it's written, by God: all souls are mine.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the Earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. Ecclesiastes 3:21.

New Testament Scriptures on Christian spirits: Hebrews 12:23, Luke 23:46; Matthew 22:32, 1 Thessalonians 5:10,

1 Peter 3:18, 2 Corinthians 5:1-8

John 17-24, Philippians 1:21-24

Acts 7:55-56, Acts 7:59, Genesis 35:18

Love to all. Mishael

I'm very familiar w/the 70 weeks of Daniel. Daniel 9th Chapter. The 3 half years out of a week is talking about a prophetic week & a literal week. Jesus was cut off/killed in the midst of a prophetic week AND a literal week, What we know as a Wednesday. So he didn't finish his ministry. Jesus came to testify about what was written in the Old Testament. He taught 3 half years and was killed & that ended the animal sacrificial law.



(So when I said he will teach natural born Israel in the wilderness 3 half yrs upon his return, that other 3 half years makes the 7yrs which represents a full week of his ministry. 7 years is a prophetic week. (please reference the story of Jacob and Rachel in Genesis 29:16-27 to understand what I mean by this. (7yrs is 1 week)

In Daniel 10 (For Jesus to have been annointed the "Messiah" was 69 weeks, which left 1 more week (7yrs) a prophetic week.)(This about Jesus, Jerusalem, and the children of Israel, not the anti-Christ nor a 7yr tribulation. Jesus was annointed the Messiah in 26A.D(69 weeks) and cut off in 30 A.D. (70th week/7yrs/7th week)

Revelation 12:1;6;14 (This is talking about natural born Israel in the place of safety(The Wilderness) during the Great Tribulation. 3 1/2 yrs.

On Paul and John. II Corinthians 12:2 (Jesus was the ONLY man who was on earth then caught up to the 3rd heaven. So Paul is talking about how he saw Jesus in his spiritual body. Paul is not talking about himself. And John saw a vision of the Throne. He was not physically there.



John 3:13 No man has ascended up to heaven but he who ascended out of heaven. (if any man other than Jesus is in heaven right now then Jesus lied; he cannot lie so we should all know the dead is still dead and their spirit is not conscious in heaven presently able to communicate with any being).

Psalms 104:23; 28-29 Man dies/returns to the dust. Ecclesiastes 12:1;5;7 Man goes back to the dust;his spirit goes to God. (spirit is simply the breath of life).

Chris,

Concerning "where do our souls go after we die."

I see it basically the same way you do.

I try to always make it a point to use Scripture to back up Scripture (as you do); otherwise, I don't have much to say.

I use the parable of the rich man and Lazarus to justify that our bodies return to dust, and our "spirit returns to God Who gave it" ( Ecclesiastes 12:7).

I am hoping and praying that I am on the right side of the gulf waiting with Abraham and Lazarus and the others that have made it ( Luke 16:26).

Chris,

You bring up some interesting points.

I would like to ask a few questions.

If it is true that "our spiritual change was accomplished at our repentance and re-birth at the foot of the cross," then do you believe "once saved, always saved"? I have not found that understanding to be in Scripture.

You also state that "This is purely a bodily change as will occur to those who "sleep in Christ." Do you believe that no person that has already died is in heaven with God and Jesus? If they are in heaven, do they have any "garments" ( Revelation 16:15) on?

You are correct concerning 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 and 1 Corinthians 15:50-54 being the same (end-time teaching), however, they cover death (rendered "sleep") from a slightly different angle.

The lesson we are given in 1 Corinthians 15:50-54 has to do with a question posed by Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:12 concerning, in general, "the resurrection of the dead" ( 1 Corinthians 15:12). If you believe that Christ rose from the dead, then those that (have already) sleep / die / pass on, are already with Him, ( 1 Corinthians 15:13), also look at John 3:12, Romans 8:6.

In 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17, Paul states that "We which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord, shall not prevent (Strong's #5348- precede) them which are asleep (dead). Why? Because they are already dead: This is why "the dead in Christ shall rise first" ( 1 Thessalonians 4:16). So, "If we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them which sleep (have already died) in Jesus will God bring with Him (at the 7th trump)" ( 1 Thessalonians 4:14). The dead are not in a hole in the Ground, they are with the Father the moment they pass ( Ecclesiastes 12:6-7). Ecclesiastes 12:7 is the O.T. reference as to why Paul states "By the word of the Lord" in 1 Thessalonians 4:14.

It is for man kind to be born in the flesh. When we believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and repent often of our sins , strive to do better and reflect the love of God. At our passing it's written the flesh returns to dust from which it came and our soul Returns to Father. Ecclesiastes 12:7.

Ecclesiastes 12:13 | View whole chapter | See verse in context

Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

Praise God! first and fore most I would like to appreciate all of us who actively participated in every comments we have been going through. Mind you, for those who have taken this page for granted the bible says in the book of Ecclesiastes 12:14 that" For God will bring every deed into judgment,with every secret thing, whether good or evil" and we should give account of each and every we deed to fellows or the Holy spirit! God bless you all in Jesus' name.

Hi Chris, just noticed your comment...

>If I seek to obey any of God's Laws, including the Sabbath, then I am judged by the Law & voluntarily exempt myself from salvation by Grace & not the Law.

Jesus disagrees with this in John 14:15. Jesus directly says if you love him you will keep his commandments (law). If you don't obey, then you don't love Jesus. If someone doesn't love or follow Jesus then they likely won't be invited to spend eternity with Him in heaven.

James 2 explains how grace and works work together. Its possible what you were trying to say is actually from James 2:10, but it doesn't say what you wrote. If you read on it clearly supports doing good works. No where in the Bible does it say we're NOT supposed to obey God or Jesus. It says the opposite throughout.

I watch out for anyone claiming good works are 'bad', as if following Jesus and his commands are bad. But somehow that not worrying about following Jesus's commands is 'ok' despite the exact words Jesus said that say the opposite. Ecclesiastes 12:13 Calling good bad sounds awfully familiar as if it comes a deceiver.

If you pursue Christ you are a Christian under grace, but following Him is an activity involving effort. It's not human effort that saves anyone, but it should be the natural fruit of loving Jesus. Many call themselves Christians and don't love Jesus, because they don't obey, and they will be surprised in the end just as Jesus predicted: Revelation 3:16 and Matthew 7:21 and Hebrews 10:26.

Only the Father knows the day of the Rapture.

When is the fullness of the Gentiles complete? Romans 11:25-36

Matthew 24:36, 42, 44

Mark 13:32

Acts 1:11

And now a reminder: Ecclesiastes 12:9-14

Kathy, Bendito has given you some great & pertinent Scriptures on life after death. I thought to just give you one more, that confirms further in MY heart of my instantaneous removal from this body & from this Earth at time of death. The Scripture is in 2 Corinthians 5:1-8. Paul speaks of his longing to put off this body of flesh (i.e. to die & "to be with Christ, which is far better") & be clothed with a new body. And Paul goes on to say, that he can confidently say that whilst he was here on Earth it meant that he wasn't physically with his Lord in Heaven; rather, he says, he was "willing to be absent in the body & present with the Lord". This means that when he dies, his body would be left behind, but his spirit would instantly return to the Lord (also Ecclesiastes 12:7). There is no suggestion of some delay from death to eternity; Paul strongly writes that the transition from earth to heaven (for the Christian), or from death to eternal life is instantaneous. This was his hope & longing and of course, the great desire of every child of God still alive now.

I believe there are unique times of fearing God & serving God. Sometimes the fear of God is to fear His wrath that will influence people to serving Him. I believe a heathy fear of God is important, like serving a righteous Father that is a God of justice: Psalms 2:11 , Psalms 5:7 , Psalms 15:4 , Psalms 25:14 , Psalms 34:11 , Proverbs 1:7 , Ecclesiastes 12:13, Ephesians 6:5 ,
I love the Scripture Bob quoted 'perfect love casts out all fear' but that is what Jesus did in action & it's what we do when we LOVE Him, we trust Him through all fear, because He is faithful. Psalms 23:4 , Psalms 27:3 , Psalms 33:18 , Psalms 49:5
Be encouraged, Jude 1:24
I pray God lead you to a good Church

Speaking of death, Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it Ecclesiastes 12:7 . Death is a state of temporary unconsciousness while the person awaits the resurrection. It is called "sleep", not Paradise. All genuine Christians, I think, are hopeful of entering the Pearly gates of Heaven.

Obedience to god is the whole duty of man Ecclesiastes 12:12 , disobedience to god results in the wages of sin which is death Romans 6:23 . Obedience to god is eternal life through Jesus Christ. In his name there is remission of sins and forgiveness of sins Acts 2:38

Strong men are bones. Grinders are teeth. Windows are eyes. Ears are low. Almond tree is grey hair. Grasshopper is children. Silver cord is the spirit. Golden bowl is the saint. These are supposed to be in parenthesis in my text but the website does not allow them.

Strong men bones shall bow. Grinders teeth cease and are few. Windows eyes be darkened. Sound of grinding ears is low. Almond tree grey hair shall flourish. Grasshopper children shall be a burden. Silver cord spirit be loosed. Golden bowl saints be brokened. Remember thy creator in your youth and keep his commandments. Amen.

worthlessness

I believe we are to only seek out this inspired book of God. Which is enough to last anyone a life time seeking Him . I believe, God reveals His word unto us when He know we are ready to receive. Have you ever read a Scripture more than once and you get a revelation of Wow!? verified by precepts OP Because of sin and faulty of men. I believe God wants us to focus on one book to avoid heresy.

I like this summary a lot.