There are different covenants which exist; some are case specific for national Israel and others affect all mankind. Thinking about this a bit further, I would say that in addition to God's provision for Adam and creation of a covenant of marriage (which man merely participated in with the consummation) He also had the conditions of remaining in the garden of Eden whose terms of course were broken. What we learn from the fall of man is that death came to Adam and Eve; which started with the fall of the soul of man followed by eventual physical death that caused all of creation to groan to this day ( Romans 8:22). This caused the need for the "second Adam" ( 1 Cor. 15:45) to be necessitated; as prophesied in the first prophecy in scripture in Genesis 3:15 about Christ's atonement for sins; which had its first foreshadowing with the first animal sacrifice by God Himself in Genesis 3:21 for clothing.
Because we are all under what is termed "original sin" which in fact causes a fallen nature of the soul and spirit of man none of us can escape God's judgment as HE DID ALL THE WORK in creating us as eternal beings ( Ecclesiastes 3:11 "eternity in their hearts). The universal marriage covenant; however formal or informal the ceremony is holds men accountable for the vows they make; Numbers 30:2 is just one example: If a man makes a vow to the Lord, or takes an oath to bind himself with a binding obligation, he shall not violate his word; he shall do according to all that proceeds out of his mouth. Ecclesiastes also discusses this; and for marriage specifically we see in 3 of 4 Gospels God's original design of making two into one flesh and what God joins together man is not to tear usunder. ( Mark 10:9).
The case specific covenants for Israel and its Sabbath day restrictions certainly point to Christ as He is Lord of the Sabbath ( Matt. 12:8). He has a new covenant because of His atoning death ( Heb 9:16-17) for us.
Listening to the tree frogs and crickets again. Seems like with the cool spells coming they won't be around much longer.
As we see in scriptures; all creation groans awaiting our redemption; Romans 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. Just how our glorification affects things is interesting; certainly God is concerned for and created all animals and plants for a perfect earth that has been marred but will be renewed in the Millennium and recreated thereafter. Death has affected animals as well; Solomon mentions this in Ecclesiastes 3:21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth? I don't see any reason why animals can't be resurrected as well but can't necessarily prove it-clearly though they were created originally to live forever but man has a unique comprehension of eternity as other Ecclesiastes verses show.
Since we face spiritual battles daily; we always want to be cognizant that indeed we are in enemy territory. Whether or not we are currently recipients of physical persecution or not evil can; if the Lord allows will come at us often unexpectantly. Just because humans as agents of the enemy are not always present the battles in the heavenly places are raging constantly.
We won't know on this side of heaven how those praying for us or vice versa has preserved us from many more things than would be otherwise; and also how local communities can be improved by the consistent prayers of a remnant still committed to consistent prayer.
All good gifts come from above. ( James 1:17; translated in part). The context of the rest of the passage shows God's consistency. In this world; health; beauty; mental acumen and other traits of youth change as our outer man slowly dies away. As a father pities his children,
"Then I commended mirth, because a man hath no better thing under the sun, than to eat, and to drink, and to be merry.
Knowing God's wisdom is unattainable is what the end verse seems to suggest; and we see the consideration of the state of man deteriorate further in the next chapter.
Ecclesiastes 9
Verse 3-6
3This is an evil among all things that are done under the sun, that there is one event unto all: yea, also the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live, and after that they go to the dead.
4For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion.
5For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
6Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
For unregenerate men things go from bad to worse and they are indeed as verse 3 claims full of madness. However the concept in verses 5 to 6 seem on the surface to validate the "soul sleep" concept of nonexistance after death; as some say happens before the general resurrection. Clearly this is not the case and there are two ways I can see explaining this apparent paradox.
First of all the idea that Solomon was looking at things from a worldly perspective in seeking wisdom and truth is one idea. The other as I can see it is verses that describe the state of the body after death rather than the soul; which earlier passages in this text indicate leaves the body at death ( Ecclesiastes 3:21). Such a study must determine if the original verbage speaks of the body (qeber) or the soul (Sheol) as the subject matter. Verse 5 saying they no longer have a reward reminds us of Luke 6:24 where Jesus says the rich already have their reward.
12 I know that there is no good in them, but for a man to rejoice, and to do good in his life.
13 And also that every man should eat and drink, and enjoy the good of all his labour, it is the gift of God.
This theme is repeated later at the end of this chapter as well as other places.
Verses 14-17
14 I know that everything God does will endure forever; nothing can be added to it and nothing taken from it. God does it so that people will fear him.
15 Whatever is has already been,
and what will be has been before;
and God will call the past to account.[b]
16 And I saw something else under the sun:
In the place of judgment-wickedness was there,
in the place of justice-wickedness was there.
17 I said to myself,
"God will bring into judgment
both the righteous and the wicked,
for there will be a time for every activity,
a time to judge every deed."
These passages show temporary perversion of justice (verse 16) but the eternal aspects of God setting things right and bringing a proper fear of God (Verse 14).
The rest of the chapter reads as follows:
I also said to myself, "As for humans, God tests them so that they may see that they are like the animals. 19 Surely the fate of human beings is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same breath[c]; humans have no advantage over animals. Everything is meaningless. 20 All go to the same place; all come from dust, and to dust all return. 21 Who knows if the human spirit rises upward and if the spirit of the animal goes down into the earth?"
Verse 18 describing humans like animals reminds us of Psalm 73:22 So foolish was I, and ignorant: I was as a beast before thee
That Psalm was written by Asaph. The going back to the dust as seen in Genesis is a fate for men and animals; although we have this isolated reference in verse 21 of the human spirit ascending to heaven and the animal going down into the earth.
But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy. ( James 3:17).
See Colossians 3:2 in regard to the mind of Christ along with Romans 8:16.
The unbeliever will go through life much as Solomon describes it in following animal type passions; and dying much in the same way ( Ecclesiastes 3:19). Nonetheless we are differed from animals as we have some concept of "eternity in our hearts" ( Ecclesiastes 3:11) and the believer as these verses show have the true light from God which guides the now living spiritual man to direct their actions.
Let us go through a few examples that are commonly seen which are NOT assurances of salvation
I can illustrate my point through a poem; hopefully not flagged but I think it better brings some of these concepts home.
I come from a native tongue not from some ragged slum (ok not the best rhyme) (racist)
I'm the pride and joy of my family 5th generation with my name on the tombstone (pride)
Outside our private home. (respecter of persons)
We made something of ourselves in this world; a grand reputation (guilt by association with family pride)
Put the fear of God in those heathen and reaped the harvest of our emancipation (superiority complex; conquest mindset)
I've got more titles than many famous statesmen (again pride in status making importance of man made titles like Pharisees)
In my heritage there are Bishops; Deacons and Knights of persuasion
And my endless good works are proof of my salvation. (the clincher; good works EARN our way into heaven)
How about them apples? Ok I seriously hope that everyone monitoring this page will bear with me; as I extract my pertinent meanings from this little deviation from the norm...as a little damage control I did a preemptive parenthetical commentary to point out the faults of this worldly mindset).
Hi Fuji. There is some division in the Christian camp about the ultimate end of those who die rejecting Christ's Gospel, i.e. whether they simply go to the grave & are no more, or, that there will be a resurrection from the dead & under judgement to face God's Wrath. And like all doctrines & teachings we find throughout the Bible, we need to consider all references to the subject matter & not focus on a single verse or two to form a judgement.
Therefore, if we had only John 3:16 to understand the afterlife (whether it exists or not), then we could well believe that 'perish' clearly means a complete cessation of life, as in someone (the body) who perishes in a house fire or perishes by drowning. But in relation to the Scriptures, we know that God has given us a spirit & that spirit is identifies who we are, given life by God, with an outer covering (a body) to house it, yet the spirit can never perish (die). Genesis 2:7; Zechariah 12:1; Job 32:8; 1 Corinthians 2:11; 1 Thessalonians 5:23; Ecclesiastes 3:21; Ecclesiastes 12:7.
And then we have the Judgement of God upon all, where those who belong in God's family, living a life consecrated to Him, are eternally secure from damnation, whereas all unbelievers (and their spirits can never be destroyed), suffer under God's condemnation. If only death was our final punishment for rejecting Christ, then we all still have to die as those in sinful, corrupt bodies; none can escape. This is a defective Gospel as most would prefer to cease to exist without any punishment & live life to the full, not answerable to God. But Christ's Sacrifice was to redeem lost sinful souls, not from death, but from God's eternal Punishment. Revelation 20:15; Revelation 21:8; Matthew 10:28; Matthew 13:49,50; Matthew 25:41,46; Mark 9:43; Luke 16:19-31; 2 Thessalonians 1:8,9.
Just a few Scriptures to show the Truth of an Eternal suffering in Hell & not simply disappearing forever in the grave. Every spirit (of man) is accountable to God.
As for Ecclesiastes 12:7, I understand this "spirit" to be the one given to man by God, and one which can never be annihilated. Each person is accountable to God & that person's spirit lives on, even while the body may be decaying in the ground. Man's spirit doesn't linger at the body or some other holding place, for in many instances, there is no body, but the spirit returns "unto God who gave it", for judgement.
Now, if this 'spirit' is only "the breath of life given to all living beings", then the question, is our true self simply a body without any possibility of a connection to God, but to just to age, to die & decay into the ground awaiting the resurrection? Even as the apostle stated in Romans 8:16, "The Spirit (the Holy Spirit) itself beareth witness with our spirit (our God-given spirit), that we are the children of God". If we don't have such a (human) spirit within us, how does the Holy Spirit indwell us, commune with us, assure us, teach us & admonish us? As even Ecclesiastes 3:20,21 reads, "All (man & beast) go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again. Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?" Both will die, but the spirit of the animal (not accountable to God) goes to the Earth while the spirit of man, who is made in the Image of God & accountable to God, returns back to Him. Blessings.
Takes me back on God's Past faithfulness in my life working in my profession and today walking by faith not by sight trusting more fasting, praying, doing ministry in how Jesus Christ is the only God giving me liberty
Exodus 20:3 KJV
'Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
giving me liberty.
Liberty- Fairness and integrity Civil liberty, is on exemption from the arbitrary will of others, which exemption is second by established laws, which restrain every man from injuring, & controlling another.
Ecclesiastes 3:1 KJV
'To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven: '
My Respond:
God has blessed me to obtain the fullness of God in season, time, every purpose under heaven. Giving me the ability to prove & reprove.
Published and Word spoken by REDAPPLETREATY4MEONLY
Part 1: The corruption of the universe after the fall.
(Sorry I missed deleting some of my later commentary in the last posting).
In the song "Leaving Eden" at least Brandon Heath's version gives a sobering reminder of man's decay and plight. God has as Ecclesiastes states put eternity in their hearts ( Ecclesiastes 3:11); one aspect of which is always looking back to Eden or finding something that pleases the five senses to give the illusion that we can once again retreat to our own utopia.
One look at our bodies in the mirror after a few decades reminds us of reality. The destruction of the outer shell made from the dust of the earth is the fate of all of us due to what is known as the 2nd law of thermodynamics where all things in the universe at present are in a state of decay. The soul of unregenerate man has nothing to hold onto but memories; which become more and more corrupted and delusional as our mind deteriorates and sin hardens men's hearts. The conscience becomes more and more seared and eventually sin has its full result leading to death; which is spiritual death once the body dies. In reality one is dead spiritually even when living on this earth without Christ. (read Romans 6).
The good news is that before we know the law we are innocent ( Romans 7:9). This would appear to be another verse showing how those before a certain age of accountability have a sin nature but don't understand enough to deliberately sin against God.
We shudder to think of events such as a 5 year old getting hold of a gun and killing a parent or sibling although it does happen. Surely they wouldn't be convicted for murder. I have said this before; that it isn't one's fault that they are born this way; but it is if they are old enough to decide to live it out and remain that way as man has a conscience at least before totally seared ( Romans 2:15). See also 1 Timothy 4:2. In my next posting I am going to discuss man's vs. God's understanding of good and evil.
I am hopeful some of this commentary will help complement the planned transcendence of God that Gigi is planning to post.
A summary of concepts
How God's Spirit along with His angels compare with Satan's minions experientially; and substantively.
Man's role in covenant with God in all facets of His existence.
How things in heavenly places are the controlling factors that activate things in the earthly realm and bring things to pass.
How incorruption rules in celestial bodies compared with corruption in our old bodies
Introduction: This series attempts a deep dive as it were into understanding the big picture of how the world; flesh and the devil work in contrast with the Godhead. I am also attempting to study how the concept of the antichrist system as well as the final Beast are both opposed to and a substitute for the true God. The bottom line in that concept demonstrates how unregenerate man simply doesn't have the capacity to comprehend things outside of their experience; or those which fallen beings as emissaries of Satan have implanted in their brains which appear on the surface to be the same miracles that come from the true Christ.
Before exploring all these themes; we first must look at God's exalted position over all of His creation; or as will be brought out in an upcoming posting; His "transcendence". All the Omni (present; potent; scient) characteristics; timelessness and limitless attributes worthy of eternal praise have allowed all things to be created and as some other postings have discussed of late; given man a time to be born and a time to die ( Ecclesiastes 3:2). All things whether we understand it or not fit into His plan from creation of this world to the inception of the new and eternal one when heaven comes down to earth in Revelation 22.
Attempting to create our own kingdom on earth brings the wisdom of man to still be below the "foolishness of God" ( 1 Cor. 1:25).
Delight thyself also in the LORD; and he shall give thee the desires of thine heart.
( Psalm 37:4).
I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?
( Luke 18:8).
The issue of our heart relates to our affections and the ownership of such. When we are crucified with Christ ( Galatians 2:20) His life takes over and our vessel (body) becomes His tabernacle where the Spirit dwells. Since the Lord is eternal; along with the spirit in which God has created us we perceive these things ( Ecclesiastes 3:11). Whether in the body or out of it we are part of Christ's Body and we shall stand in His presence; we are already "seated in heavenly places" ( Ephesians 2:6).
Such affections draw us close to our brothers and sisters in the faith; and indeed we are COMMANDED to love one another; both from the Gospels and later quotes from John ( John 15:12; 1 John 3:23). This should be a springboard for time; money and effort to be poured out for the ministries and missions of the church and unity among the brethren. Agape love is the only love which can love anyone unconditionally; and therefore it also extends to the lost who we are commissioned to reach.
Often people complicate things when it comes to relationships; prayer certainly is helpful as I have seen personally a brother finding his wife to be 2 days after praying to find someone; along with another missionary friend of mine from many years ago when overseas. Still; there are some things which may not come to fruition until the Lord returns (primarily finding justice on the earth in places which have for a long time now featured persecution). Since we have a NEW heart; however we can find joy in seeing others being blessed; and seeing people come to faith even during times when we are struggling in our lives.
We often look at Christ's death as the ultimate love; but let us not forget His whole ministry especially toward His Disciples.
Ecclesiastes 7:29 KJV: Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions.
We see similar references to God's creation of man such as in Psalm 139 and it seems clear that there is nothing wrong with God's design at least in how it was originally intended. Therefore even with the fallen nature due to Adam's sin that we all inherit even unregenerate man is responsible for his actions which are contrary to a nature in which "God has set eternity in their hearts." ( Ecclesiastes 3:11). Man originally was made in the image of God; now it may be argued that we bear some resemblance to what we were originally but now we are also in the image of man; that is of the physical appearance of our parents.
Another thing we must consider is how the great prophets all responded in the presence of God. We can examine Isaiah 6:5 as well as the Prophet Ezekiel and Daniel and John in Revelation 1. Even John recognized he wasn't worthy to open the seals and wept ( Revelation 5:4). Keep in mind that this was the Disciple closest to our Lord when He was physically on earth but he realized that only Christ was worthy. We therefore have value because of Him; it is His righteousness that gives us that.
That is why I prefer to view His righteousness as coming from the inside out; not as some cloak over us. There is indeed His perfection in a believer but also the vesiges of who we were even if in actuality not who we still are in light of the promised glorification. Again; only a TRUE believer can claim these promises; or more accurately can have Christ claim to be His own.
I get the sense that some who claim never to sin again think that they can be in God's presence without being flat on their faces. Going boldly into His presence still involves humility and is expressed by an intimate communication and fellowship between BOTH parties.
I am sure to start a fire on this one; praying these conversations can be edifying.
Concluding statements on the "emotions" of God related to His covenants
It has been said that the book of Revelation is the "Grand Central Station" of scripture. Here we see His righteous 144,000 and their entourage of countless multitudes which overcome; and the return of Christ where He rules and reigns from Jerusalem (as stated in Revelation 19-21) and finally the last chapter which goes to the eternal state. The struggle of Israel at that time is brought forth in Revelation 12 with the woman and the other signs of the sun and moon and stars.
When considering the extent of God's wrath we understand it is eternal (and conversely also for all the saved saints enjoying bliss in heaven). Man was made with eternity in their hearts ( Ecclesiastes 3:11) as God Himself is eternal who is their Creator. The seemingly volatile and unhinged behavior that many outside the faith blame the God of the Bible of having is in reality evidence of His longsuffering; we see a preview of hell for the first time literally in the book of Numbers 16:22-35. This was due to the sons of Korah attempting to be part of the priesthood and to usurp the authority of Moses. We see evidences of the people attempting to intercede to stop more widespread destruction in verses 22 to 24 with some success; also in verses 45 through 48 Moses didn't have to ask what to do after God promised widespread judgment; he was allowed to intercede standing in front of the Lord between the dead and living (v. 48). These chapters are interesting and warrant further study as to things that are purified and made holy and in light of the present observations more I'm sure could be deduced.
These and other passages show that the Lord offers a way out from His wrath in His prescribed methodology only. The rebellion the day after people literally were swallowed up and sent to hell because of being annoyed with Moses for God being angry and following through on His threats serves as a warning to us all.
Jeremiah 17:8 along with Psalm 1 bring out the benefits of a tree whose roots are planted near the water. This steadfast faith in the Lord is contrasted in the next verse which describes the vicissitudes of the heart of unregenerate man. These vital concepts describe the state of a soul; who needs to be vigilant to bearing fruit and testing themselves to see if they are in the faith is a necessary prerequisite ( 2 Cor. 13:5). Those who do not bear fruit are cut off and burned; a figurative statement describing a very real state of the lost at Judgment Day (see John 15:2).
Surely all flesh is as grass ( 1 Peter 1:24) and like a vapor this life soon passes away ( James 4:14). Eternity is in men's hearts showing that indeed the nature of man is for their spirit to live forever after the body and soul perish ( Ecclesiastes 3:11). This means their legacy is either eternal glory and recognition of those things done while living for the Lord; or eternal damnation for the lack thereof. (see Matthew 25:34 and associated verses).
There is some hope for us who still are producing works of wood; hay and stubble ( 2 Tim. 2:21-23) to change to better works if we have a foundation in Christ ( 1 Cor. 3:11). This results in varying degrees or levels in the harvest and subsequent reward for those who are saved (see also Mark 4:20).
Those in the flesh and not Born Again can only interpret what they see around them in the world (the actions of others who serve as their peers and interpreted through their own understanding). God alone as I see it through predestination determines who will be saved. On our end it takes a fair evaluation of who we really are as compared to a righteous God which then leads to godly sorrow and repentance (which is indeed a gift from God as about half a dozen scriptures indicate). John 16:8 must enlighten us to our desperate plight that SHOULD be aided by proper evangelism appealing for individuals to repent.
35 Say not ye, There are yet four months, and then cometh harvest? behold, I say unto you, Lift up your eyes, and look on the fields; for they are white already to harvest.
36 And he that reapeth receiveth wages, and gathereth fruit unto life eternal: that both he that soweth(JESUS sowed) and he that reapeth may rejoice together.
37 And herein is that saying true, One soweth(JESUS was the sower of the Gospel of GOD's Kingdom), and ANOTHER reapeth.
Matthew 13:27 and 30:
27 ... Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
30 Let both grow together until the harvest(said JESUS around 2000 years ago): and in the time of harvest (the time arrived) I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together FIRST the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
he that reapeth receiveth wages, and gathereth fruit unto life ETERNAL: that both he that soweth(JESUS sowed) and he that reapeth may rejoice together.
Ecclesiastes 3:1-2 combined with Revelation 14:14-20
Again, dealing with your recent comments to me, now in one post, Shabbat Keeper. Firstly, Adam has written very well to Jema, so I won't bring up the matter of the definition of "eternal/eternity", which should alone convince us that physical death is not the end for anyone (believer or unbeliever).
If I'm correct from your first post to me, "what an icky thought it is, to stop existing", you believe in the total annihilation of the body at death (for the unbeliever). So, when the Bible speaks of man, his existence & his death, we are first reminded that man is a tripartite being (i.e. one whose composition is of body, soul & spirit: 1 Thessalonians 5:23). When the body dies, it decomposes back to the Earth, but those parts of man that cannot be killed ( Matthew 10:28) can never be destroyed. Unlike animals, man's spirit, given by God, returns to Him ( Ecclesiastes 3:21), whereas animals cease to exist - forever. Therefore, if man, made by God to reflect His Image & traits, is accountable to God, will never cease to exist (his spirit & soul cannot be destroyed, whether by death, fire, or whatever), & he will stand in judgement before God. For this reason, the Gospel is so vital for all to hear, to alert all people that death is not final - there remains an accountability & their final judgement will be based on what they have done with Jesus Who came for them.
You wrote, "Hell fire is the same thing as destruction" & you gave the example of a house on fire. A house is physical/material, a spirit is not - it can never be destroyed. The real Shabbat Keeper or myself are found in our spirits/souls - the body is simply the house in which we need to live in. So yes, this house is corrupt & temporal, but we who have Christ's Spirit in us, look to be clothed (endowed) with that "house which is from heaven" ( 2 Corinthians 5:1-6). Likewise, hell (not the grave), is the dwelling place of those who have spurned God's Love - spirits they are & in torment.
Psalm 51:10 states "Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me." Christ states that man must be born of water and the Spirit ( John 3:5) which refers either to physical birth first then spiritual; or the baptism associated with God granting repentance and someone being "born again."
The Lord created man in the image of God; both male and female according to Genesis 1:27. Man was given all he needed to live a blissful existence as long as he remained in communion with God; he was given authority over all creation and asked to tend the garden. God's love; however already looked to the needed redemption of man foreseeing his fall; and thus Christ's sacrifice was planned before time began to bring this plan to effect and destroy Satan's temporary usurping of rulership on earth ( Gen. 3:15).
Therefore; Jesus became as the second Adam. (see 1 Cor. 15:47-49 for further details). To put to death the old man expresses the ultimate love; for it is the natural state of the unredeemed soul that can never escape itself in eternal hell. The world and its lusts are temporary; but He has put eternity in the hearts of man. ( Ecclesiastes 3:11). He has promised that He will never leave nor forsake us ( Deut. 31:6; Heb. 13:5). He acts as high priest ever interceding for us ( Rom. 8:34; Heb. 14:15-16; etal).
Along with eternal salvation; God accomplishes His will in our lives; and shows His love by chastising all those He loves. ( Heb. 12:6-7 and other verses). The Lord will lose none of His sheep or His elect as they will hear His voice ( John 10:1-4). Thus the work has been done on our behalf; we can do nothing to add to it or merit any favor. Thus our response should be to love Him accordingly and not to focus on what He can do for us in this life; but to seek that His will is done on earth as in heaven.
The process of sanctification and glorification will be reviewed in future posts.
2 Timothy 2:21 shows that we can clean ourselves so that we are not just vessels of clay but can be vessels of honor. Jesus tells us that he purges branches to produce more fruit ( John 15:2). We thus face that the lost are nothing but dead branches or profane vessels but we can through sanctification work towards purification and honor. We can perhaps see this also with the parable of the sower where some have the thorns of worldly cares snuff them out. ( Mark 4:18-19). A truly saved individual will pass the test of the trials which God places to test His own (see 1 Peter 1:7).
To succeed we need to be hidden in Christ ( Colossians 3:3) and truly be dead in Christ. Our old nature is impossible to put to death otherwise and will forever try to resurrect itself. God has put eternity into the hearts of men ( Ecclesiastes 3:11); yet that verse shows we cannot see to understand God who is basically beyond time and ourselves. Perhaps self preservation is a reflection that we are an eternal soul; thankfully God has the upper hand for those He has called and predestined will make it to glorification; and that for eternity ( Romans 8:30).
The concept of redemption or Kinsman redeemer is seen with the story of Ruth. Christ redeemed us from among men through His atoning sacrifice ( Galatians 3:13). He purchased us with His blood. He has removed our sins as far as the east is from the west ( Psalm 103:12 also read verses 13 to 14). We have passed from death to life ( John 5:24). His Spirit bears witness with our spirit as to our salvation ( Romans 8:16).
These and many other promises are things to meditate on and give comfort. We can only undestand such things if we are spiritually discerned; however and one of His children. ( 1 Cor. 2:14-15). Let us test ourselves to see if we are in the faith therefore ( 2 Cor. 13:5-6).
Thanks Gasman for your reply; I'm glad that my answer to you might have been a little helpful. However, your question as to when does a human (whether still in embryonic form or after release from the womb) is equipped with a soul & spirit, can't really be answered irrefutably, simply because the Word is silent on it & very likely the medical profession will never admit it. Though some Scriptures might help us, such as Ecclesiastes 3:19-21; Ecclesiastes 12:7; Luke 23:46; Acts 7:59; James 2:26; and maybe others which seem to show both the importance & destination of the human spirit when the body dies. Then again, the word 'soul' is also used similarly: Matthew 10:28; Matthew 16:26; Revelation 6:9, which seems to further confuse this matter of distinction between soul & spirit. However, as man is made in his Creator's Image, I believe that he needs to be fully equipped with & reflect this fully formed creative work; hence the need for this three-fold aspect of his humanness.
Yet, as you wrote, "Our core values we know for sure but secondary issues we don't", which is what we need to emphasize & build up one another on, rather than on matters we know little or nothing about. Yet, it's always an interesting exercise to ponder even over such things. Blessings.
All the dead are said to rise at the Great White Throne Judgment. There is one obscure verse Ecclesiastes 3:21 shows how the soul of an animal goes down; while a man goes upward at death (where acording to Heb. 9:27 we are immediately judged).
That could likely be when we see animals rise again.
The Millennial Kingdom is likely the creatures that survive the Tribulation. It is unclear what percent of them die in that time; although one of the vial judgments kills ALL the life in the sea (hence there IS no more sea in the new earth). As with the replenishing of the Dead Sea (see end of Ezekiel); I would surmise that there is a fresh water stock of fish that multiply; although God could do something else (it appears fresh water and some fish already are entering underground in that area but only in certain sections; scripture shows how the reeds along the edge remain salt water areas).
It also appears that horses at be present at the Second Coming; as they will come down with the saints and with Christ Himself; if that is to be taken literally. It is conceivable that Resurrected bodies of humans will be able to jump into the earth's gravity and not be destroyed; these creatures therefore would have to be either horses that live in heaven or perhaps resurrected for that event which is just speculative.
Of course there are the extinct prehistoric dinosaurs and other creatures as well as many living under the sea and in the earth we are probably not familiar with today. There are also angelic beings that look like creatures (Cherubim) but are spirit beings.
I would surmise also that whatever the original ancestors looked like will be seen as well; it would be likely that reproduction as with resurrected men would halt after animals are Resurrected. I would also hazard a guess that the animals would be in their original role as well as being docile enough for us to hang around; like an outdoor pet.
Not a subject to nix fellowship over differing views...
Daniel 4:35 ...and he doeth according to HIS WILL in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth, and NONE can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?
Isaiah 55:8 .... your ways are not my ways ......
Ecclesiastes 3:1 To everything there is a season, a TIME to every PURPOSE under heaven .....
We don't know why God does what he does, what we do know is when he has put ALL THINGS under Christ:
He doesn't cause everyone to believe at the same time.
Paul didn't believe until God caused him to believe.
Everything has an APPOINTED TIME; it the works of God, his timetable.
He chose Jacob; and not Esau, before they were ever conceived.
Hebrews 11:20 By faith (by the spirit of Christ) Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau, concerning THINGS TO COME.
Jacob; the last, was given dominion over the first.
Genesis 27:37
The first born of flesh is not always the first born of spirit.
Matthew 19:30 ... The first shall be last and the last first ....
After the second resurrection, when Esau stands in his former estate, his flesh, he will be caused to believe and the yoke will be broken from his neck.
Genesis 27:40
All things were maded new by Christ resurrection, but all things have an appoint time to come to TRUTH.
Romans 9:21 Hath not the potter POWER over the clay, of the same lump, to make one a vessel of HONOUR, and the other a vessel of DISHONOUR?
Daniel 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the world are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth, and NONE can stay his hand, or say unto him, what doest thou?
Jeremiah 18:4 And the vessel he made of clay was MARRED in the potter's hand, so he MADE it again ....
Psalms 104:30 Thou sendest forth thy spirit (when he chooses to do so), they are CREATED and thou renewest the face of the earth.
Ecclesiastes 3:1 To everything there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven
Psalms 123:2 ...so our eyes wait upon the lord, UNTIL he have mercy upon us ....
NOT YET are ALL THINGS put under him; BUT, when they are, God will be ALL IN ALL.
The eternal nature of God is more or less comprehended by the souls of men ( Ecclesiastes 3:1). This is further bolstered by passages in Romans 1 about the Godhead revealed as well as a Creator of the universe (see also Psalm 19). God in the beginning established man in the environment of His choosing with the authority over all living creatures and with the assignment to till the ground. He also made Eve to be a suitable companion and as long as man remained obedient under the condition of not eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil they would have lived forever in a state of innocence. Of course we know what happened; man broke the one rule and hence the warnings came to pass with the death of the soul (immediate) and the body (over time). Such terms could be said to be part of a covenant; or agreement.
I believe it is helpful to look at our Christian lives this way as well. John 6:37 and a plethora of other verses make it clear that before time God chose some to come to faith and for the Son to be revealed to them. This was part of a covenant; in some sense with the Godhead where the Son was obedient to the Father's plan for redemption. Again; this is an unwritten sort of understanding; perhaps this mystery involves some of the unrevealed things in Deut. 29:29 in the secret councils of heaven.
Scripture appears to have a number of records; a book of all the living ( Psalm 69:28) as all souls are His ( Ezekiel 18:4). There is also the Book of Life as mentioned in Revelation several times as well as a book of remembrance in Malachi 3:16 for a remnant or subsection of believers meeting these conditions. As far as the term covenant is concerned; we see that promise on God's end with the rainbow after the flood where He promises no more worldwide flood. Up until this point these were things that affected all of mankind but later things were for the set apart who would eventually make up national Israel.
Remember to pray for wisdom: James 1:5, 2Timothy 2:15
1Samuel 31:11-13 note 1Samuel 31:9-11, 2Samuel 2:5-6, 2Samuel 2:4-7, there is no contradiction here notice the difference Amos 2:1, 2Samuel 21:12, 'stolen' translated word 'ganab' meaning= to theive, take away, get by stealth, ) they took, 1Samuel 31:12, I think it is to emphasise cover of darkness 1Samuel 31:12, dangerous 'valiant men" stole 2Samuel 21:12 because it was in the possession of they enemy as spoils of war. 1Samuel 31:7-10, Ecclesiastes 3:1-3,
1Kings 15:5, 1Samuel 24:21-22, 1Samuel 18:19, 1Samuel 21, = Matthew 12:3-12, Jesus words. 2Samuel 21, notice David honored his oath 2Samuel 21:17, No contradiction, notice : 1Samuel 18:21, 1Samuel 19:17 Saul, his own daughter, same daughter Saul didn't value her life? Adultery was also punishable by death, stoning! You pointed out Saul gave David's wife same woman to another blatantly adultery, I was more surprised by David's mercy by restoring her position, sparing her life from death penalty & also sparing the lovers life. 2Samuel 3:14-16,
Remember Saul's 1st daughter? She was promised to David, before the people, again this too could be considered adultery, treacherous, etc. 1Samuel 17:25-27, 1Samuel 18:17-19,25,
1Samuel 17:25-54, weird but again we see 'spoils of war' also, 1Thessalonians 4:8,
2Samuel 24:1, GOD moved him, Job 12:16, 2Samuel 2:16, 2Samuel 2, why wasn't she there, rejoicing in the LORD? 2Samuel 2:19,
The Lord spoke in parables so that the Pharisees would be blinded lest they see the truth at any time and repent (see Mark 4:11 and following verses). The human being is the only species which deliberately blinds themselves to the truth and hardens their heart. This is given to man to whom God has put "eternity in their hearts." ( Ecclesiastes 3:11). There is a way; a door or opening to heaven by which we MUST go through to enter; there is no other way. That; of course is Christ and being Born Again. After all; only the "sick need a physician". ( Mark 2:17). Consider those who most often rejected Christ. These were all those who had heard the message; and mostly the Jews who knew the law and the commandments and the prophecies thus they were without excuse killing the Lord of Glory. That was made clear by Stephen's speech and subsequent martyrdom in Acts 7 and the beginning of Acts 8. Their history was spelled out as to how they sinned and killed the Prophets before them; Christ Himself also brought out these things.
In seeing these things we are reminded with a fair and impartial view of scripture in terms of it's literary composition that men by and large were going on with their personal lives and decisions much of the time. We certainly needn't look at "free will" as something that is diametrically opposed to God's predetermination in our lives as though He is holding us to a standard that we as human beings are paralyzed with our everyday life. He points out to David only when He goes after Bathsheeba that he was given much latitude ( 2 Sam. 12:7-8) and even more wives if he asked; but of course murder and adultery was not to be tolerated. God can't look upon sin; therefore had to turn His back on His own Son. However it is our sin NATURE that is the root of all these things; or the heart ( Jeremiah 17:9; etc.) But after this life ends there is no more freedom for the unregenerate to sin.
SO, THE QUESTION IS.What is it that those, who believe in the natural immortality of the soul, do not understand?
AN ANSWER.They do not understand, how God created man, a living soul, it they did there would be no problem understanding what returned to God, at death.
A common view of the meaning of the spirit that goes back to God, says that it refers to the breath of life. That would agree with King Solomon's statement in Ecclesiastes 3:21 where he said, "the breath of man ascends upward" at death. It is important to know that the Hebrew word that is translated as "breath" in Ecclesiastes 3:21 is the same Hebrew word that is translated as "spirit" in Ecclesiastes 12:7. So, this Hebrew word ruach can be translated as "breath" or "spirit."
It is important to know that Genesis 2:7 translates ruach as "breath." So it says, "breath of life."
The word "ruach" can be translated as "breath" or "spirit." It is translated in the "Old testament," (90) times as "wind" and (28) times "breath"
Praise god repentance is bliss bible pray for the wages of sin is death hell is hot and eternal jesus christ is lord and coming back again just like jesus christ said that god will please get your house in biblical order asap before it is to late blessings hallelujah glory be to god amen
There are different covenants which exist; some are case specific for national Israel and others affect all mankind. Thinking about this a bit further, I would say that in addition to God's provision for Adam and creation of a covenant of marriage (which man merely participated in with the consummation) He also had the conditions of remaining in the garden of Eden whose terms of course were broken. What we learn from the fall of man is that death came to Adam and Eve; which started with the fall of the soul of man followed by eventual physical death that caused all of creation to groan to this day ( Romans 8:22). This caused the need for the "second Adam" ( 1 Cor. 15:45) to be necessitated; as prophesied in the first prophecy in scripture in Genesis 3:15 about Christ's atonement for sins; which had its first foreshadowing with the first animal sacrifice by God Himself in Genesis 3:21 for clothing.
Because we are all under what is termed "original sin" which in fact causes a fallen nature of the soul and spirit of man none of us can escape God's judgment as HE DID ALL THE WORK in creating us as eternal beings ( Ecclesiastes 3:11 "eternity in their hearts). The universal marriage covenant; however formal or informal the ceremony is holds men accountable for the vows they make; Numbers 30:2 is just one example: If a man makes a vow to the Lord, or takes an oath to bind himself with a binding obligation, he shall not violate his word; he shall do according to all that proceeds out of his mouth. Ecclesiastes also discusses this; and for marriage specifically we see in 3 of 4 Gospels God's original design of making two into one flesh and what God joins together man is not to tear usunder. ( Mark 10:9).
The case specific covenants for Israel and its Sabbath day restrictions certainly point to Christ as He is Lord of the Sabbath ( Matt. 12:8). He has a new covenant because of His atoning death ( Heb 9:16-17) for us.
As we see in scriptures; all creation groans awaiting our redemption; Romans 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. Just how our glorification affects things is interesting; certainly God is concerned for and created all animals and plants for a perfect earth that has been marred but will be renewed in the Millennium and recreated thereafter. Death has affected animals as well; Solomon mentions this in Ecclesiastes 3:21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth? I don't see any reason why animals can't be resurrected as well but can't necessarily prove it-clearly though they were created originally to live forever but man has a unique comprehension of eternity as other Ecclesiastes verses show.
Since we face spiritual battles daily; we always want to be cognizant that indeed we are in enemy territory. Whether or not we are currently recipients of physical persecution or not evil can; if the Lord allows will come at us often unexpectantly. Just because humans as agents of the enemy are not always present the battles in the heavenly places are raging constantly.
We won't know on this side of heaven how those praying for us or vice versa has preserved us from many more things than would be otherwise; and also how local communities can be improved by the consistent prayers of a remnant still committed to consistent prayer.
All good gifts come from above. ( James 1:17; translated in part). The context of the rest of the passage shows God's consistency. In this world; health; beauty; mental acumen and other traits of youth change as our outer man slowly dies away. As a father pities his children,
So the Lord pities those who fear Him.
14 For He [a]knows our frame;
He remembers that we are dust. ( Ps. 103
When we read part of verse 15 we read:
"Then I commended mirth, because a man hath no better thing under the sun, than to eat, and to drink, and to be merry.
Knowing God's wisdom is unattainable is what the end verse seems to suggest; and we see the consideration of the state of man deteriorate further in the next chapter.
Ecclesiastes 9
Verse 3-6
3This is an evil among all things that are done under the sun, that there is one event unto all: yea, also the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live, and after that they go to the dead.
4For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion.
5For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
6Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
For unregenerate men things go from bad to worse and they are indeed as verse 3 claims full of madness. However the concept in verses 5 to 6 seem on the surface to validate the "soul sleep" concept of nonexistance after death; as some say happens before the general resurrection. Clearly this is not the case and there are two ways I can see explaining this apparent paradox.
First of all the idea that Solomon was looking at things from a worldly perspective in seeking wisdom and truth is one idea. The other as I can see it is verses that describe the state of the body after death rather than the soul; which earlier passages in this text indicate leaves the body at death ( Ecclesiastes 3:21). Such a study must determine if the original verbage speaks of the body (qeber) or the soul (Sheol) as the subject matter. Verse 5 saying they no longer have a reward reminds us of Luke 6:24 where Jesus says the rich already have their reward.
12 I know that there is no good in them, but for a man to rejoice, and to do good in his life.
13 And also that every man should eat and drink, and enjoy the good of all his labour, it is the gift of God.
This theme is repeated later at the end of this chapter as well as other places.
Verses 14-17
14 I know that everything God does will endure forever; nothing can be added to it and nothing taken from it. God does it so that people will fear him.
15 Whatever is has already been,
and what will be has been before;
and God will call the past to account.[b]
16 And I saw something else under the sun:
In the place of judgment-wickedness was there,
in the place of justice-wickedness was there.
17 I said to myself,
"God will bring into judgment
both the righteous and the wicked,
for there will be a time for every activity,
a time to judge every deed."
These passages show temporary perversion of justice (verse 16) but the eternal aspects of God setting things right and bringing a proper fear of God (Verse 14).
The rest of the chapter reads as follows:
I also said to myself, "As for humans, God tests them so that they may see that they are like the animals. 19 Surely the fate of human beings is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same breath[c]; humans have no advantage over animals. Everything is meaningless. 20 All go to the same place; all come from dust, and to dust all return. 21 Who knows if the human spirit rises upward and if the spirit of the animal goes down into the earth?"
Verse 18 describing humans like animals reminds us of Psalm 73:22 So foolish was I, and ignorant: I was as a beast before thee
That Psalm was written by Asaph. The going back to the dust as seen in Genesis is a fate for men and animals; although we have this isolated reference in verse 21 of the human spirit ascending to heaven and the animal going down into the earth.
But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy. ( James 3:17).
See Colossians 3:2 in regard to the mind of Christ along with Romans 8:16.
The unbeliever will go through life much as Solomon describes it in following animal type passions; and dying much in the same way ( Ecclesiastes 3:19). Nonetheless we are differed from animals as we have some concept of "eternity in our hearts" ( Ecclesiastes 3:11) and the believer as these verses show have the true light from God which guides the now living spiritual man to direct their actions.
Let us go through a few examples that are commonly seen which are NOT assurances of salvation
I can illustrate my point through a poem; hopefully not flagged but I think it better brings some of these concepts home.
I come from a native tongue not from some ragged slum (ok not the best rhyme) (racist)
I'm the pride and joy of my family 5th generation with my name on the tombstone (pride)
Outside our private home. (respecter of persons)
We made something of ourselves in this world; a grand reputation (guilt by association with family pride)
Put the fear of God in those heathen and reaped the harvest of our emancipation (superiority complex; conquest mindset)
I've got more titles than many famous statesmen (again pride in status making importance of man made titles like Pharisees)
In my heritage there are Bishops; Deacons and Knights of persuasion
And my endless good works are proof of my salvation. (the clincher; good works EARN our way into heaven)
How about them apples? Ok I seriously hope that everyone monitoring this page will bear with me; as I extract my pertinent meanings from this little deviation from the norm...as a little damage control I did a preemptive parenthetical commentary to point out the faults of this worldly mindset).
More to come I hope
Therefore, if we had only John 3:16 to understand the afterlife (whether it exists or not), then we could well believe that 'perish' clearly means a complete cessation of life, as in someone (the body) who perishes in a house fire or perishes by drowning. But in relation to the Scriptures, we know that God has given us a spirit & that spirit is identifies who we are, given life by God, with an outer covering (a body) to house it, yet the spirit can never perish (die). Genesis 2:7; Zechariah 12:1; Job 32:8; 1 Corinthians 2:11; 1 Thessalonians 5:23; Ecclesiastes 3:21; Ecclesiastes 12:7.
And then we have the Judgement of God upon all, where those who belong in God's family, living a life consecrated to Him, are eternally secure from damnation, whereas all unbelievers (and their spirits can never be destroyed), suffer under God's condemnation. If only death was our final punishment for rejecting Christ, then we all still have to die as those in sinful, corrupt bodies; none can escape. This is a defective Gospel as most would prefer to cease to exist without any punishment & live life to the full, not answerable to God. But Christ's Sacrifice was to redeem lost sinful souls, not from death, but from God's eternal Punishment. Revelation 20:15; Revelation 21:8; Matthew 10:28; Matthew 13:49,50; Matthew 25:41,46; Mark 9:43; Luke 16:19-31; 2 Thessalonians 1:8,9.
Just a few Scriptures to show the Truth of an Eternal suffering in Hell & not simply disappearing forever in the grave. Every spirit (of man) is accountable to God.
As for Ecclesiastes 12:7, I understand this "spirit" to be the one given to man by God, and one which can never be annihilated. Each person is accountable to God & that person's spirit lives on, even while the body may be decaying in the ground. Man's spirit doesn't linger at the body or some other holding place, for in many instances, there is no body, but the spirit returns "unto God who gave it", for judgement.
Now, if this 'spirit' is only "the breath of life given to all living beings", then the question, is our true self simply a body without any possibility of a connection to God, but to just to age, to die & decay into the ground awaiting the resurrection? Even as the apostle stated in Romans 8:16, "The Spirit (the Holy Spirit) itself beareth witness with our spirit (our God-given spirit), that we are the children of God". If we don't have such a (human) spirit within us, how does the Holy Spirit indwell us, commune with us, assure us, teach us & admonish us? As even Ecclesiastes 3:20,21 reads, "All (man & beast) go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again. Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?" Both will die, but the spirit of the animal (not accountable to God) goes to the Earth while the spirit of man, who is made in the Image of God & accountable to God, returns back to Him. Blessings.
Exodus 20:3 KJV
'Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
giving me liberty.
Liberty- Fairness and integrity Civil liberty, is on exemption from the arbitrary will of others, which exemption is second by established laws, which restrain every man from injuring, & controlling another.
Ecclesiastes 3:1 KJV
'To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven: '
My Respond:
God has blessed me to obtain the fullness of God in season, time, every purpose under heaven. Giving me the ability to prove & reprove.
Published and Word spoken by REDAPPLETREATY4MEONLY
(Sorry I missed deleting some of my later commentary in the last posting).
In the song "Leaving Eden" at least Brandon Heath's version gives a sobering reminder of man's decay and plight. God has as Ecclesiastes states put eternity in their hearts ( Ecclesiastes 3:11); one aspect of which is always looking back to Eden or finding something that pleases the five senses to give the illusion that we can once again retreat to our own utopia.
One look at our bodies in the mirror after a few decades reminds us of reality. The destruction of the outer shell made from the dust of the earth is the fate of all of us due to what is known as the 2nd law of thermodynamics where all things in the universe at present are in a state of decay. The soul of unregenerate man has nothing to hold onto but memories; which become more and more corrupted and delusional as our mind deteriorates and sin hardens men's hearts. The conscience becomes more and more seared and eventually sin has its full result leading to death; which is spiritual death once the body dies. In reality one is dead spiritually even when living on this earth without Christ. (read Romans 6).
The good news is that before we know the law we are innocent ( Romans 7:9). This would appear to be another verse showing how those before a certain age of accountability have a sin nature but don't understand enough to deliberately sin against God.
We shudder to think of events such as a 5 year old getting hold of a gun and killing a parent or sibling although it does happen. Surely they wouldn't be convicted for murder. I have said this before; that it isn't one's fault that they are born this way; but it is if they are old enough to decide to live it out and remain that way as man has a conscience at least before totally seared ( Romans 2:15). See also 1 Timothy 4:2. In my next posting I am going to discuss man's vs. God's understanding of good and evil.
A summary of concepts
How God's Spirit along with His angels compare with Satan's minions experientially; and substantively.
Man's role in covenant with God in all facets of His existence.
How things in heavenly places are the controlling factors that activate things in the earthly realm and bring things to pass.
How incorruption rules in celestial bodies compared with corruption in our old bodies
Introduction: This series attempts a deep dive as it were into understanding the big picture of how the world; flesh and the devil work in contrast with the Godhead. I am also attempting to study how the concept of the antichrist system as well as the final Beast are both opposed to and a substitute for the true God. The bottom line in that concept demonstrates how unregenerate man simply doesn't have the capacity to comprehend things outside of their experience; or those which fallen beings as emissaries of Satan have implanted in their brains which appear on the surface to be the same miracles that come from the true Christ.
Before exploring all these themes; we first must look at God's exalted position over all of His creation; or as will be brought out in an upcoming posting; His "transcendence". All the Omni (present; potent; scient) characteristics; timelessness and limitless attributes worthy of eternal praise have allowed all things to be created and as some other postings have discussed of late; given man a time to be born and a time to die ( Ecclesiastes 3:2). All things whether we understand it or not fit into His plan from creation of this world to the inception of the new and eternal one when heaven comes down to earth in Revelation 22.
Attempting to create our own kingdom on earth brings the wisdom of man to still be below the "foolishness of God" ( 1 Cor. 1:25).
( Psalm 37:4).
I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?
( Luke 18:8).
The issue of our heart relates to our affections and the ownership of such. When we are crucified with Christ ( Galatians 2:20) His life takes over and our vessel (body) becomes His tabernacle where the Spirit dwells. Since the Lord is eternal; along with the spirit in which God has created us we perceive these things ( Ecclesiastes 3:11). Whether in the body or out of it we are part of Christ's Body and we shall stand in His presence; we are already "seated in heavenly places" ( Ephesians 2:6).
Such affections draw us close to our brothers and sisters in the faith; and indeed we are COMMANDED to love one another; both from the Gospels and later quotes from John ( John 15:12; 1 John 3:23). This should be a springboard for time; money and effort to be poured out for the ministries and missions of the church and unity among the brethren. Agape love is the only love which can love anyone unconditionally; and therefore it also extends to the lost who we are commissioned to reach.
Often people complicate things when it comes to relationships; prayer certainly is helpful as I have seen personally a brother finding his wife to be 2 days after praying to find someone; along with another missionary friend of mine from many years ago when overseas. Still; there are some things which may not come to fruition until the Lord returns (primarily finding justice on the earth in places which have for a long time now featured persecution). Since we have a NEW heart; however we can find joy in seeing others being blessed; and seeing people come to faith even during times when we are struggling in our lives.
We often look at Christ's death as the ultimate love; but let us not forget His whole ministry especially toward His Disciples.
We see similar references to God's creation of man such as in Psalm 139 and it seems clear that there is nothing wrong with God's design at least in how it was originally intended. Therefore even with the fallen nature due to Adam's sin that we all inherit even unregenerate man is responsible for his actions which are contrary to a nature in which "God has set eternity in their hearts." ( Ecclesiastes 3:11). Man originally was made in the image of God; now it may be argued that we bear some resemblance to what we were originally but now we are also in the image of man; that is of the physical appearance of our parents.
Another thing we must consider is how the great prophets all responded in the presence of God. We can examine Isaiah 6:5 as well as the Prophet Ezekiel and Daniel and John in Revelation 1. Even John recognized he wasn't worthy to open the seals and wept ( Revelation 5:4). Keep in mind that this was the Disciple closest to our Lord when He was physically on earth but he realized that only Christ was worthy. We therefore have value because of Him; it is His righteousness that gives us that.
That is why I prefer to view His righteousness as coming from the inside out; not as some cloak over us. There is indeed His perfection in a believer but also the vesiges of who we were even if in actuality not who we still are in light of the promised glorification. Again; only a TRUE believer can claim these promises; or more accurately can have Christ claim to be His own.
I get the sense that some who claim never to sin again think that they can be in God's presence without being flat on their faces. Going boldly into His presence still involves humility and is expressed by an intimate communication and fellowship between BOTH parties.
I am sure to start a fire on this one; praying these conversations can be edifying.
It has been said that the book of Revelation is the "Grand Central Station" of scripture. Here we see His righteous 144,000 and their entourage of countless multitudes which overcome; and the return of Christ where He rules and reigns from Jerusalem (as stated in Revelation 19-21) and finally the last chapter which goes to the eternal state. The struggle of Israel at that time is brought forth in Revelation 12 with the woman and the other signs of the sun and moon and stars.
When considering the extent of God's wrath we understand it is eternal (and conversely also for all the saved saints enjoying bliss in heaven). Man was made with eternity in their hearts ( Ecclesiastes 3:11) as God Himself is eternal who is their Creator. The seemingly volatile and unhinged behavior that many outside the faith blame the God of the Bible of having is in reality evidence of His longsuffering; we see a preview of hell for the first time literally in the book of Numbers 16:22-35. This was due to the sons of Korah attempting to be part of the priesthood and to usurp the authority of Moses. We see evidences of the people attempting to intercede to stop more widespread destruction in verses 22 to 24 with some success; also in verses 45 through 48 Moses didn't have to ask what to do after God promised widespread judgment; he was allowed to intercede standing in front of the Lord between the dead and living (v. 48). These chapters are interesting and warrant further study as to things that are purified and made holy and in light of the present observations more I'm sure could be deduced.
These and other passages show that the Lord offers a way out from His wrath in His prescribed methodology only. The rebellion the day after people literally were swallowed up and sent to hell because of being annoyed with Moses for God being angry and following through on His threats serves as a warning to us all.
Jeremiah 17:8 along with Psalm 1 bring out the benefits of a tree whose roots are planted near the water. This steadfast faith in the Lord is contrasted in the next verse which describes the vicissitudes of the heart of unregenerate man. These vital concepts describe the state of a soul; who needs to be vigilant to bearing fruit and testing themselves to see if they are in the faith is a necessary prerequisite ( 2 Cor. 13:5). Those who do not bear fruit are cut off and burned; a figurative statement describing a very real state of the lost at Judgment Day (see John 15:2).
Surely all flesh is as grass ( 1 Peter 1:24) and like a vapor this life soon passes away ( James 4:14). Eternity is in men's hearts showing that indeed the nature of man is for their spirit to live forever after the body and soul perish ( Ecclesiastes 3:11). This means their legacy is either eternal glory and recognition of those things done while living for the Lord; or eternal damnation for the lack thereof. (see Matthew 25:34 and associated verses).
There is some hope for us who still are producing works of wood; hay and stubble ( 2 Tim. 2:21-23) to change to better works if we have a foundation in Christ ( 1 Cor. 3:11). This results in varying degrees or levels in the harvest and subsequent reward for those who are saved (see also Mark 4:20).
Those in the flesh and not Born Again can only interpret what they see around them in the world (the actions of others who serve as their peers and interpreted through their own understanding). God alone as I see it through predestination determines who will be saved. On our end it takes a fair evaluation of who we really are as compared to a righteous God which then leads to godly sorrow and repentance (which is indeed a gift from God as about half a dozen scriptures indicate). John 16:8 must enlighten us to our desperate plight that SHOULD be aided by proper evangelism appealing for individuals to repent.
John 4:35-37 - JESUS said:
35 Say not ye, There are yet four months, and then cometh harvest? behold, I say unto you, Lift up your eyes, and look on the fields; for they are white already to harvest.
36 And he that reapeth receiveth wages, and gathereth fruit unto life eternal: that both he that soweth(JESUS sowed) and he that reapeth may rejoice together.
37 And herein is that saying true, One soweth(JESUS was the sower of the Gospel of GOD's Kingdom), and ANOTHER reapeth.
Matthew 13:27 and 30:
27 ... Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
30 Let both grow together until the harvest(said JESUS around 2000 years ago): and in the time of harvest (the time arrived) I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together FIRST the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
he that reapeth receiveth wages, and gathereth fruit unto life ETERNAL: that both he that soweth(JESUS sowed) and he that reapeth may rejoice together.
Ecclesiastes 3:1-2 combined with Revelation 14:14-20
GOD bless
Again, dealing with your recent comments to me, now in one post, Shabbat Keeper. Firstly, Adam has written very well to Jema, so I won't bring up the matter of the definition of "eternal/eternity", which should alone convince us that physical death is not the end for anyone (believer or unbeliever).
If I'm correct from your first post to me, "what an icky thought it is, to stop existing", you believe in the total annihilation of the body at death (for the unbeliever). So, when the Bible speaks of man, his existence & his death, we are first reminded that man is a tripartite being (i.e. one whose composition is of body, soul & spirit: 1 Thessalonians 5:23). When the body dies, it decomposes back to the Earth, but those parts of man that cannot be killed ( Matthew 10:28) can never be destroyed. Unlike animals, man's spirit, given by God, returns to Him ( Ecclesiastes 3:21), whereas animals cease to exist - forever. Therefore, if man, made by God to reflect His Image & traits, is accountable to God, will never cease to exist (his spirit & soul cannot be destroyed, whether by death, fire, or whatever), & he will stand in judgement before God. For this reason, the Gospel is so vital for all to hear, to alert all people that death is not final - there remains an accountability & their final judgement will be based on what they have done with Jesus Who came for them.
You wrote, "Hell fire is the same thing as destruction" & you gave the example of a house on fire. A house is physical/material, a spirit is not - it can never be destroyed. The real Shabbat Keeper or myself are found in our spirits/souls - the body is simply the house in which we need to live in. So yes, this house is corrupt & temporal, but we who have Christ's Spirit in us, look to be clothed (endowed) with that "house which is from heaven" ( 2 Corinthians 5:1-6). Likewise, hell (not the grave), is the dwelling place of those who have spurned God's Love - spirits they are & in torment.
Psalm 51:10 states "Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me." Christ states that man must be born of water and the Spirit ( John 3:5) which refers either to physical birth first then spiritual; or the baptism associated with God granting repentance and someone being "born again."
The Lord created man in the image of God; both male and female according to Genesis 1:27. Man was given all he needed to live a blissful existence as long as he remained in communion with God; he was given authority over all creation and asked to tend the garden. God's love; however already looked to the needed redemption of man foreseeing his fall; and thus Christ's sacrifice was planned before time began to bring this plan to effect and destroy Satan's temporary usurping of rulership on earth ( Gen. 3:15).
Therefore; Jesus became as the second Adam. (see 1 Cor. 15:47-49 for further details). To put to death the old man expresses the ultimate love; for it is the natural state of the unredeemed soul that can never escape itself in eternal hell. The world and its lusts are temporary; but He has put eternity in the hearts of man. ( Ecclesiastes 3:11). He has promised that He will never leave nor forsake us ( Deut. 31:6; Heb. 13:5). He acts as high priest ever interceding for us ( Rom. 8:34; Heb. 14:15-16; etal).
Along with eternal salvation; God accomplishes His will in our lives; and shows His love by chastising all those He loves. ( Heb. 12:6-7 and other verses). The Lord will lose none of His sheep or His elect as they will hear His voice ( John 10:1-4). Thus the work has been done on our behalf; we can do nothing to add to it or merit any favor. Thus our response should be to love Him accordingly and not to focus on what He can do for us in this life; but to seek that His will is done on earth as in heaven.
The process of sanctification and glorification will be reviewed in future posts.
2 Timothy 2:21 shows that we can clean ourselves so that we are not just vessels of clay but can be vessels of honor. Jesus tells us that he purges branches to produce more fruit ( John 15:2). We thus face that the lost are nothing but dead branches or profane vessels but we can through sanctification work towards purification and honor. We can perhaps see this also with the parable of the sower where some have the thorns of worldly cares snuff them out. ( Mark 4:18-19). A truly saved individual will pass the test of the trials which God places to test His own (see 1 Peter 1:7).
To succeed we need to be hidden in Christ ( Colossians 3:3) and truly be dead in Christ. Our old nature is impossible to put to death otherwise and will forever try to resurrect itself. God has put eternity into the hearts of men ( Ecclesiastes 3:11); yet that verse shows we cannot see to understand God who is basically beyond time and ourselves. Perhaps self preservation is a reflection that we are an eternal soul; thankfully God has the upper hand for those He has called and predestined will make it to glorification; and that for eternity ( Romans 8:30).
The concept of redemption or Kinsman redeemer is seen with the story of Ruth. Christ redeemed us from among men through His atoning sacrifice ( Galatians 3:13). He purchased us with His blood. He has removed our sins as far as the east is from the west ( Psalm 103:12 also read verses 13 to 14). We have passed from death to life ( John 5:24). His Spirit bears witness with our spirit as to our salvation ( Romans 8:16).
These and many other promises are things to meditate on and give comfort. We can only undestand such things if we are spiritually discerned; however and one of His children. ( 1 Cor. 2:14-15). Let us test ourselves to see if we are in the faith therefore ( 2 Cor. 13:5-6).
Agape.
Yet, as you wrote, "Our core values we know for sure but secondary issues we don't", which is what we need to emphasize & build up one another on, rather than on matters we know little or nothing about. Yet, it's always an interesting exercise to ponder even over such things. Blessings.
That could likely be when we see animals rise again.
The Millennial Kingdom is likely the creatures that survive the Tribulation. It is unclear what percent of them die in that time; although one of the vial judgments kills ALL the life in the sea (hence there IS no more sea in the new earth). As with the replenishing of the Dead Sea (see end of Ezekiel); I would surmise that there is a fresh water stock of fish that multiply; although God could do something else (it appears fresh water and some fish already are entering underground in that area but only in certain sections; scripture shows how the reeds along the edge remain salt water areas).
It also appears that horses at be present at the Second Coming; as they will come down with the saints and with Christ Himself; if that is to be taken literally. It is conceivable that Resurrected bodies of humans will be able to jump into the earth's gravity and not be destroyed; these creatures therefore would have to be either horses that live in heaven or perhaps resurrected for that event which is just speculative.
Of course there are the extinct prehistoric dinosaurs and other creatures as well as many living under the sea and in the earth we are probably not familiar with today. There are also angelic beings that look like creatures (Cherubim) but are spirit beings.
I would surmise also that whatever the original ancestors looked like will be seen as well; it would be likely that reproduction as with resurrected men would halt after animals are Resurrected. I would also hazard a guess that the animals would be in their original role as well as being docile enough for us to hang around; like an outdoor pet.
Not a subject to nix fellowship over differing views...
Daniel 4:35 ...and he doeth according to HIS WILL in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth, and NONE can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?
Isaiah 55:8 .... your ways are not my ways ......
Ecclesiastes 3:1 To everything there is a season, a TIME to every PURPOSE under heaven .....
We don't know why God does what he does, what we do know is when he has put ALL THINGS under Christ:
God will be ALL in ALL ..... 1 Corinthians 15:28
I quoted you scripture.
You believe: because God CAUSES you to believe.
His WORKS.
He doesn't cause everyone to believe at the same time.
Paul didn't believe until God caused him to believe.
Everything has an APPOINTED TIME; it the works of God, his timetable.
He chose Jacob; and not Esau, before they were ever conceived.
Hebrews 11:20 By faith (by the spirit of Christ) Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau, concerning THINGS TO COME.
Jacob; the last, was given dominion over the first.
Genesis 27:37
The first born of flesh is not always the first born of spirit.
Matthew 19:30 ... The first shall be last and the last first ....
After the second resurrection, when Esau stands in his former estate, his flesh, he will be caused to believe and the yoke will be broken from his neck.
Genesis 27:40
All things were maded new by Christ resurrection, but all things have an appoint time to come to TRUTH.
Romans 9:21 Hath not the potter POWER over the clay, of the same lump, to make one a vessel of HONOUR, and the other a vessel of DISHONOUR?
Daniel 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the world are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth, and NONE can stay his hand, or say unto him, what doest thou?
Jeremiah 18:4 And the vessel he made of clay was MARRED in the potter's hand, so he MADE it again ....
Psalms 104:30 Thou sendest forth thy spirit (when he chooses to do so), they are CREATED and thou renewest the face of the earth.
Ecclesiastes 3:1 To everything there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven
Psalms 123:2 ...so our eyes wait upon the lord, UNTIL he have mercy upon us ....
NOT YET are ALL THINGS put under him; BUT, when they are, God will be ALL IN ALL.
God Bless you, my brother in Christ.
The eternal nature of God is more or less comprehended by the souls of men ( Ecclesiastes 3:1). This is further bolstered by passages in Romans 1 about the Godhead revealed as well as a Creator of the universe (see also Psalm 19). God in the beginning established man in the environment of His choosing with the authority over all living creatures and with the assignment to till the ground. He also made Eve to be a suitable companion and as long as man remained obedient under the condition of not eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil they would have lived forever in a state of innocence. Of course we know what happened; man broke the one rule and hence the warnings came to pass with the death of the soul (immediate) and the body (over time). Such terms could be said to be part of a covenant; or agreement.
I believe it is helpful to look at our Christian lives this way as well. John 6:37 and a plethora of other verses make it clear that before time God chose some to come to faith and for the Son to be revealed to them. This was part of a covenant; in some sense with the Godhead where the Son was obedient to the Father's plan for redemption. Again; this is an unwritten sort of understanding; perhaps this mystery involves some of the unrevealed things in Deut. 29:29 in the secret councils of heaven.
Scripture appears to have a number of records; a book of all the living ( Psalm 69:28) as all souls are His ( Ezekiel 18:4). There is also the Book of Life as mentioned in Revelation several times as well as a book of remembrance in Malachi 3:16 for a remnant or subsection of believers meeting these conditions. As far as the term covenant is concerned; we see that promise on God's end with the rainbow after the flood where He promises no more worldwide flood. Up until this point these were things that affected all of mankind but later things were for the set apart who would eventually make up national Israel.
1Samuel 31:11-13 note 1Samuel 31:9-11, 2Samuel 2:5-6, 2Samuel 2:4-7, there is no contradiction here notice the difference Amos 2:1, 2Samuel 21:12, 'stolen' translated word 'ganab' meaning= to theive, take away, get by stealth, ) they took, 1Samuel 31:12, I think it is to emphasise cover of darkness 1Samuel 31:12, dangerous 'valiant men" stole 2Samuel 21:12 because it was in the possession of they enemy as spoils of war. 1Samuel 31:7-10, Ecclesiastes 3:1-3,
1Kings 15:5, 1Samuel 24:21-22, 1Samuel 18:19, 1Samuel 21, = Matthew 12:3-12, Jesus words. 2Samuel 21, notice David honored his oath 2Samuel 21:17, No contradiction, notice : 1Samuel 18:21, 1Samuel 19:17 Saul, his own daughter, same daughter Saul didn't value her life? Adultery was also punishable by death, stoning! You pointed out Saul gave David's wife same woman to another blatantly adultery, I was more surprised by David's mercy by restoring her position, sparing her life from death penalty & also sparing the lovers life. 2Samuel 3:14-16,
Remember Saul's 1st daughter? She was promised to David, before the people, again this too could be considered adultery, treacherous, etc. 1Samuel 17:25-27, 1Samuel 18:17-19,25,
1Samuel 17:25-54, weird but again we see 'spoils of war' also, 1Thessalonians 4:8,
2Samuel 24:1, GOD moved him, Job 12:16, 2Samuel 2:16, 2Samuel 2, why wasn't she there, rejoicing in the LORD? 2Samuel 2:19,
Again pray for wisdom, hopefully helpful
The Lord spoke in parables so that the Pharisees would be blinded lest they see the truth at any time and repent (see Mark 4:11 and following verses). The human being is the only species which deliberately blinds themselves to the truth and hardens their heart. This is given to man to whom God has put "eternity in their hearts." ( Ecclesiastes 3:11). There is a way; a door or opening to heaven by which we MUST go through to enter; there is no other way. That; of course is Christ and being Born Again. After all; only the "sick need a physician". ( Mark 2:17). Consider those who most often rejected Christ. These were all those who had heard the message; and mostly the Jews who knew the law and the commandments and the prophecies thus they were without excuse killing the Lord of Glory. That was made clear by Stephen's speech and subsequent martyrdom in Acts 7 and the beginning of Acts 8. Their history was spelled out as to how they sinned and killed the Prophets before them; Christ Himself also brought out these things.
In seeing these things we are reminded with a fair and impartial view of scripture in terms of it's literary composition that men by and large were going on with their personal lives and decisions much of the time. We certainly needn't look at "free will" as something that is diametrically opposed to God's predetermination in our lives as though He is holding us to a standard that we as human beings are paralyzed with our everyday life. He points out to David only when He goes after Bathsheeba that he was given much latitude ( 2 Sam. 12:7-8) and even more wives if he asked; but of course murder and adultery was not to be tolerated. God can't look upon sin; therefore had to turn His back on His own Son. However it is our sin NATURE that is the root of all these things; or the heart ( Jeremiah 17:9; etc.) But after this life ends there is no more freedom for the unregenerate to sin.
Hopefully helpful in your discussion
AN ANSWER.They do not understand, how God created man, a living soul, it they did there would be no problem understanding what returned to God, at death.
A common view of the meaning of the spirit that goes back to God, says that it refers to the breath of life. That would agree with King Solomon's statement in Ecclesiastes 3:21 where he said, "the breath of man ascends upward" at death. It is important to know that the Hebrew word that is translated as "breath" in Ecclesiastes 3:21 is the same Hebrew word that is translated as "spirit" in Ecclesiastes 12:7. So, this Hebrew word ruach can be translated as "breath" or "spirit."
It is important to know that Genesis 2:7 translates ruach as "breath." So it says, "breath of life."
The word "ruach" can be translated as "breath" or "spirit." It is translated in the "Old testament," (90) times as "wind" and (28) times "breath"