Viewing page: 15 of 27
< Previous Discussion Page Next Discussion Page >
5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
Posting comments is currently unavailable due to high demand on the server.
Please check back in an hour or more. Thank you for your patience!
Firstly, when the Bible speaks of 'election' it means that God had in the distant past selected those that would be His children, receive His favour & partake of His Kingdom. Israel is said to be His elect (e.g. Isaiah 45:4) & now those also who have now come to Him for salvation through Jesus Christ His Son (e.g. Colossians 3:12). So if a person does not fall into those categories (i.e. Israel & those born again of God's Spirit), they are not classified as the Elect of God. If a person leads a good life & is generous with his goods to others, this still does not make him acceptable to God, since not one person, bar Christ, was ever good enough to please God ( Romans 3:10, 23).
Now, there's another word similar in meaning to 'election', & that is 'predestination'. These words are almost interchangeable except 'predestination' is used exclusively to born again believers who have been predestined (again, we were appointed before time), to partake in the adoption process. That is, believers might have been elected to be partakers of Kingdom Life, but we have also been appointed to go through the adoption process whereby God, in Love & Mercy, takes someone not in His original family & brings him into His family because of his faith in Jesus Christ. (see Ephesians 1:5, 11). So as a result of our adoption, our predestination into God's Family includes that we don't have Hell as our destiny, but Heaven.
The Bible doesn't speak of any other place where people who die can go to, except Heaven or Hell. Some religions teach falsely of an intermediary place (e.g. purgatory), for a period of further cleansing so as to enter Heaven, but Jesus always taught that there are only two places ( Matthew 18:1-11, for an example of either entering Heaven or Hell). And the decision we make on Earth now determines where our eventual destiny will be. Some mistakenly believe they are on the right way but..for Proverbs 14:12.
Whatever things are hidden from us & are in the domain of Almighty God need to remain with Him, without our compulsions to believe a certain way. One of the best verses that gives us a glimpse of this is in Ephesians 1:3-5 where Paul tells us of God's Plan for those He chooses. However, the verses only tell us that God has chosen us IN HIM (in Christ) even before the foundation of the world to be holy beings. And that God has predestined (planned our destiny) to be called His children through Jesus Christ & according to His good pleasure.
But, as you ask, why some & not others? Are we so privileged to belong to Him because our names were 'drawn out of a hat'? Or, did God, in His Omniscience, already know those whom He wanted or would respond to His Call & therefore appointed us to receive salvation? Is it at all possible that there could be some earnest soul wanting to be saved through Jesus, but is refused because of not being predestined? I have never seen such a pitiful situation as this.
Then why is the Gospel preached by the Apostles & the Church, if God's predestining overrides any effort or desire on our part? The only way I can understand this aspect of God's Character is by harmonizing the Scriptures. If His Love for the sinner was so great & persistent that He would send His Son for our sake & that Jesus Himself enjoined his apostles to take this Gospel message to the far reaches of the globe, then surely God's predestining & choosing is dependent on His prompting of a heart to hunger for Truth, to hear & receive the Gospel & be sealed with His Spirit. And those who will reject the Truth because of the hardness of their hearts, to them God has not shed Light nor predestined to salvation. Yet we still preach the Gospel so all may hear & know - that's our responsibility.
When the Lord says I am free then I am free. For He says, "So if the Son sets you free you will be free indeed." - John 8:36
That's why Paul says, "In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God's grace." - Ephesians 1:7
Why can't we believe a God who chose to die for the sins of many so we can attain the life everlasting? It could have been us who should be on that cross but no. Because of His richness in grace and mercy "God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us". - Romans 5:8
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord - Romans 6:23
For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us that we might become the righteousness of God in Him - 2 Corinthians 5:21
God chose to love us even we are unlovable. We are wretched people and we need a saviour cause there is no good in us; No one is righteous, no! not one. - Romans 3:10
What shall it profit me if I gained the whole world and lose my own soul? - Mark 8:36
It is better for me to be in His courts than a thousand anywhere else! I would rather be a gatekeeper in the house of my God than live the good life in the homes of the wicked - Psalms 84:10
For it is appointed for men, us, to die once but after this is judgment.
Death is real. Hell is real.
That's why God sent Jesus once and for all to die for many once. He is not going to do it again.
That is why we need a Saviour. We can only be saved by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone.
Are you ready to receive Him?
Hi Claire. We're glad to help with some advice as we know you're in a difficult situation & struggling with Church, etc. To your points:
a. When a person is saved (born again), it means that God does a special work in that person's life after she comes to the point of realizing that her life of sin or rejection of God is weighing heavily on her heart & there is nothing she can do to clean herself up & so is cast upon God for His mercies. Without that conviction of sin, there can be no salvation, otherwise we end up being like some in Churches: going regularly to feel good or try to make God feel good about them. This is not re-birth. So after acknowledging our sin & realizing that only Jesus Christ, God's Son can pay the price of your sin which you couldn't, then you run to the Cross & cling onto Jesus asking for forgiveness (not a physical cross but from your heart).
If you have truly come for the sake of the burden of your sinful life & not for any other motive, then God receives your repentance, forgives you your past sins, gives you His Spirit to be in you to give you a new life in Christ. The old sinful nature still remains, to which Satan appeals & causes us to stumble, but God's Nature (Spirit) will always work against the Old nature, which is when you immediately know when you stumble into sin (e.g. when the carpet salesman asked you about giving you an earlier quote & you lied - you immediately knew you had done wrong as the Spirit convicted you).
Jesus referred to His Spirit as the Comforter ( John 16:7). The Spirit's Work in the believer is to comfort, teach, convict of sin, encourage, help in praying, becoming more Christ-like, help to gain victory over sin ( 2 Corinthians 10:2-6), loving God & others with godly love ("agape"), etc. So you always have God in you as He has sealed you as belonging to Him for all eternity ( Ephesians 1:13, 14).
Hebrews 7:3, speaking of Melchizedek, says: "but made Like unto the Son of God.."
John 1:1-5, 14 clearly shows that Jesus, the Word; was in the beginning with God.
Ephesians 1:4, 9-10
Proverbs 8:22-31
Psalms 33:6, Psalm 2:7
Colossians 1:16-19
Colossians 2:9
1 Corinthians 8:6
Note: the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed, declared Jesus Begotten: NOT made.
1 Corinthians 3:16
Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
1 Corinthians 6:19
What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
Ephesians 4:30
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
Ephesians 1:13
(Jesus) In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
1 Corinthians 12:3
Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
Acts 2:38 - Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Acts 1:5 - For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
Read all of 1 Corinthians 12, to understand the gift of speaking in tongues. If it's a gift you desire, then ask the Holy Spirit for that gift. Always covet discerning of spirits. A very useful gift.
1 Corinthians 14: 1, 2, 4
For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh Not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
GOOGLE the gifts so you'll know what each one of them is for.
The Holy Spirit is your Teacher. Always ask Him to help you understand what you are reading. You now have the Mind of Christ. He will instruct you through the Holy Spirits ministry to believers. Be still & quiet till he replies. You're going to fall deeply in love with the Spirit of Jesus.
Mishael
1 Corinthians 12:13(KJV)
"For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit."
The spiritual baptism is where when someone believes that Jesus Christ died on the cross, buried, "risen again the third day according to the scriptures."
Ephesians 1:13(KJV)
"[13] In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, [14] Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory."
Last but not least
1 Corinthians 15:1-4(KJV)
"[1] Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; [2] By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. [3] For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; [4]And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"
Give God the glory not me.
She has her eyes on death but sees the tree good for food.
Genesis 2:17
"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."
Genesis 2:18
"And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him."
God wants good for man.
John 8:23
"And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world."
James 1:17
King James Version
17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
Ephesians 1:18
The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
Proverbs 4:20-27.
1 Thessalonians 2:13 | View Chapter | Context
For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.
John 1:1
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
The Lord saves us when we come to Him as broken repentant sinners and as someone mentioned above we are sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise Ephesians 1:13.
Someone else mentions Judas Iscariot. I don't believe he had the holy spirit, I believe he is the son of perdition and remember Jesus says about whoever he will touch with the "sop", interesting initials.
We are part of the body of Christ if we are truly saved. Do you really think He will amputate us if we commit a certain number of sins and cause us to lose the salvation that He has given us. It isn't ours, it's His free gift to us.
Remember too that when Judas killed himself Jesus hadn't died so the new testament and the new dispensation of the church age where we have eternal security hadn't come into place. They didn't have eternal security during the time of the old testament, remember how the Holy Spirit left Saul. It also left Samson but came back to him. I truly believe that the books of Hebrews especially and also James are written to Jews during the time of Jacob's trouble, which hasn't happened yet, because the body of Christ won't be there, we will have left to be with the Lord, see 1 Corinthians 15:51-52 and 1 Thessalonians 4:14-18. It is so important to rightly divide the word of God as it is all writted to us, but not all of it for us 2 Timothy 2:15. If we don't rightly divide it that's when we make a mess of it and start thinking parts contradict other parts when they don't. I praise the Lord for showing me this.
I agree that Jesus is the way to everlasting life.
I am not sure what you mean by a "condemned to death sinner" being "protected by the Law" by "putting themselves in the Mercy Seat of Christ."
I don't want to live in a society that allows murderers to be justified in the Law because they have decided to be "brave enough" to believe that the Law of God has been fulfilled through the blood of Christ and therefore we do not need to be under it anymore.
Faith in Jesus does not free people from the consequences of sin.
Murderers are to be dispatched back to God.
Forgiveness is up to the one offended, not the offender; and it is based on repentance.
The Law is there for us to follow.
Again, I will state that only Jesus did not NEED the Law.
He was Perfect.
The rest of us need the Law.
Concerning the "Bride:"
I don't believe that the collective Christian churches are the Bride of Christ.
The Bride is Jerusalem that God took to wife ( Ezekiel 16:8), and SHE will be renewed and called "New Jerusalem" ( Revelation 3:12, 21:2)
We as Christians make up the collective "body" of Christ ( Ephesians 1:23, 5:23, Colossians 1:18, 24, etc..)
Christ in the Heavens (the New Heavens ) where we are blessed with all spiritual blessings in high places. Although we don't feel it right now, we're already there. We are Christ's bride. Rev 21:2. We ARE the New Jerusalem so when Christ returns, there we are with him. Rev 21:10. He comes here to earth WITH the New Jerusalem, gathers up to us those who are remaining here on the earth and CONTINUES to come down to the earth where we will rule with him here on the earth and kings and judges for 1000 years. Nowhere does it say he comes down and then returns back up, but rather proceeds to come down here TO RULE for 1000 years. This is the truth as I have read it from the Word of God, Jesus Christ. He IS the Word of God, the Holy Scriptures, and he is alive, the living Word.
Do you also have a supporting Scripture that the Gift of Tongues is a 'Heavenly language known only to God'? The Acts 2:4 account of Pentecost Day seems to indicate that the Tongues spoken was not Heavenly but Earthly & Paul's teaching on this in 1 Cor 14 was specifically to show that Tongues was an unknown (unlearned) language to the speaker but may be known to another present or to be used when one gifted with its Interpretation was present. Without an interpretation, the (unlearned) Tongue was not to be used however it could be used in prayer to God only, where "my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful" (v 14). This seems to me that apart from its use in prayer, the Tongue should only be used when someone who understands/interprets it is present.
I would be interested to learn what Scripture you know that can support what you've said.
He truly deserves all praise and glory no matter what is going on here on planet earth.
He created it and knows all about it!!!
God bless you and thank you again!
I differ from you somewhat on your explanation of Acts 2:38. To my understanding you are receiving the Holy Spirit upon the new birth. The birth by water in John 3, is the fleshly birth.( uh oh my water just broke) and then born of the Spirit is the second birth. I believe verse 6 says that which is born of flesh is flesh and that which is born of the spirit is spirit. That is an explanation by Jesus on the new birth. I do believe that you have to be born again to enter the kingdom of Heaven. But also the water baptism is an outward expression of an inward change. Water baptism has nothing to do with salvation. No where in the gospels does it speak of any baptism that seals your salvation. The Word does say in Acts 4:12 There is salvation in no other, there is no other name under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved. Salvation is the gift of God and the shedding of Jesus blood for the remission of our sins. Christ and Christ alone.
Romans 8:28 basically states that the plan of God will be done through His "elect" children.
God also utilizes Satan's children to bring about His perfect plan, look at Isaiah 10:5, 19:25, Jeremiah 42:18, etc.
The "elect" children of God concerns "predestination," look at Romans 8:29-30, 1 Corinthians 2:7, Ephesians 1:5, 11.
Predestination has to do with understanding that there are 3 earth and heaven ages spoken of in the word of God, 2 Peter 3:5-6 speaks of the 1st dispensation of time; 2 Peter 3:7 speaks of the 2nd dispensation of time; and 2 Peter 3:13 speaks of the 3rd dispensation of time.)
The 1st earth and heaven age ended due to the fall of Satan, and is recorded in Genesis 1:1-2. The earth BECAME without form and void; God did not make it that way!
The 2nd earth and heaven age came into being when the spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters and God said Let there be Light ( Genesis 1:2-3)
The 3rd earth and heaven age is what all children of God look forward to.
God "did foreknow" ( Rom 8:29) each and every one of us because we were all there in the 1st Dispensation of time.
Jeremiah was (foreordained) a prophet BEFORE he was born ( Jeremiah 1:5).
God hated Esau BEFORE he was born because Esau despised his (birth)-right and (likely) followed Satan in the 1st earth age ( Genesis 25:32-34, Malachi 1:3, Romans 9:13, Hebrews 12:16)
Page 3
Whether they are spoken of separately or combined, the "Jews" ( 2 Kings 16:6), the "Gentiles" ( Genesis 10:5), and the "church of God" ( 1 Corinthians 1:2) make up the three-fold subject matter of the word of God. Every part of the Bible is, in general, written concerning one of these three classes or divisions of persons. Therefore, what is written needs to be appropriately interpreted and applied to the class or division of people to which it was written for!
The misappropriation of these three classes of people; "Jews," "Gentiles," and the "church" of God, into Scripture where they do not belong is one of the foremost reasons why the word of God is misunderstood, look at Galatians 1:13, Ephesians 1:22, 5:23, Philippians 3:6, Colossians 1:24.
In Genesis 48, Israel placed his right hand of blessing on the head of Joseph's younger son Ephraim while his left hand was on the head of the firstborn son Manasseh. His right hand deliberately conferred a greater blessing on Ephraim.
Jesus Christ is the embodiment of God's right hand of power as Colossians 1 makes evident. He is also elevated to the right hand of God's throne in Heaven as declared in Romans 8:34, Ephesians 1:20, Colossians 3:1, Hebrews 1:3 and elsewhere in the scripture. David trusted the LORD as his Savior and prophetically includes this aspect of the LORD's nature in his psalms.