Discuss Ephesians 2 Page 16

The Hebrew word for "chapt" is 'Chathath' (pr. khaw-thath), which means 'shattered or to be dismayed'. But in reference to the "ground being chapt & there was no rain on the Earth", we could understand the word to mean, 'parched or unusable'. As the farmers in those early days depended heavily on rain for their crops (having no viable irrigation systems), the lack of rain in season, caused the farmers to feel utterly dejected & confounded, covering their heads in sorrow.

Connie ,i think i understand what you are getting at ,i have always been very suspicious about taking any ones word for anything ,when i wanted to learn about God i didnt ask any one i just got myself a Bible and started reading ,please remember that the Bible was provided for us in order to help us draw closer to and learn about God ,He wants us to get to know Him by reading it ,blind faith may be ok but we dont need to be blind when we have Gods words to guide us .

In Jeremiah 14: 4 what does the word 'chapt' mean?

Connie,

"I am also a truth seeker. I am not one to declare myself wise to say that there is a right way to salvation."

So instead of the "straw people of faith" that you oppose, you see yourself "wise" in having no declaration of how and who God saves. You even quote another writer in the expectation that you are thereby justified. In fact, you have established your own idol/feeling that you take comfort in. Your description of where you stand implys that you have the truth, despite any question put to you about what it is you have. Effectively, you have, sadly, stopped seeking.

So here you are on the KJV website and when other people describe what they see from scripture on the truth of how and who God saves, you don't have to consider those words.

"There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death." Proverbs 14:12 and Proverbs 18:17 Stated twice in God's word to make it clear that the "right way" is important to God and to everyone who cares to hear what he has written, of course, except you. Blind faith is, blindness.

Connie, Are you saved of God and how has he done this for you? "be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you" 1Peter 3:15

When you say we are told not to change the bible, I'm happy that we agree on something, when you talk of the many different bible versions, I'm also aware that there is, but chose to only read the KJV, I'm sure they're meant to be more relevant to today's english but as in 2 Corinthians 11:12-15 Satan can transform himself into an angel of light and deceive many, just by changing a few words. Fornication is most certainly a terrible sin throughout society today and also in biblical times, and is mentioned 35 times in the KJV but when you look at Romans 1:20-32 and Galations 5:14-26 it is only one of many sins of the flesh. "Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents," to name just a few. John 8:3-11 Jesus forgive a woman caught in adultery, John 4:6-43 the Samaritan woman at the well living in fornication was one of the first women evangelist. Luke 18:10-14 "The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican." he was not justified, Luke 23:43 the first person Jesus took to paradise was a thief on the cross. Sin in whatever form is evil in God's eyes, but I'm sure your well aware of that. Just as God judged the people in Sodom and Gomorrah and in Noah's day, I try (sometimes I fail) to let God judge the transgressors of today, and focus on the narrow road to the cross for my Salvation. Because as in Luke 17:32 "Remember Lot's wife." we don't want to turn into that pillar of salt.

Some of my favorite scripture to help me keep things in perspective is the Beatitudes and sermon on the mount, and also Luke 10:27-37 the story of the good Samaritan.

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:

Not of works, lest any man should boast.

1

Thank you for your reply but you misunderstood my comment.

I do believe in Jesus. I called out to God to help me understand why I felt differently about the way religious traditions have dismissed the fact that the worship of the image of a cross is idolatry.

If you sayJesus is God , then how is my decision to love God as my Heavenly Father so wrong?

The Esdra 2 book

18Nevertheless the righteous shall suffer strait things, and hope for wide: for they that have done wickedly have suffered the strait things, and yet shall not see the wide.

19And he said unto me. There is no judge above God, and none that hath understanding above the Highest.

20For there be many that perish in this life, because they despise the law of God that is set before them.

21For God hath given strait commandment to such as came, what they should do to live, even as they came, and what they should observe to avoid punishment.

This is my blind faith . To not try to understand what no man can declare to understand. . This is my fear of offending God. Thank you for your support.

Marilyn Taplin,

"no flesh will be saved?"

Are you now saved, or will you be saved? And how do you understand that all to come about?

Yes, we are told not to change the Bible. Not to change one dot or one title of the word of God. Yet, we have many, many, many new versions of the Bible that have removed the word fornication. Even the New King James has reduced the number of times it is used from 32 to 12 and removed it from Jude. You should look up the NIV and see how they have changed the scriptures. You can search it on the internet.

However, when the blind lead the blind much of what the blind believe is not the truth. The Bible tells us those in Sodom and Gomorrah are God's lying children and when we look at the Christianity of today many denominations will marry and ordain the gays. No truth is being spoken in those denomination. Which denomination is telling truth? Is there one?

God said he had to shorten a day or no flesh would be saved. Are we close to God having to shorten a day or no flesh will be saved?

When I read my KJV bible it tells me to believe as a child, and so I do believe, in Rev 22:18-19 it tells me not to add nor subtract from the words written in this book, and I don't. When you say "It is more logical to believe there were other people for them to marry." you ignore the fact of; who then created them, or where were they from, did they also sin like Adam and Eve or were they sinless, and so many more unanswered questions. After they disobeyed God and eat of the fruit of the tree, and sinned in the garden, scripture tells us in Genesis 3:20 "And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living." then, as per your logic, scripture must be wrong. Then I must agree with Paul when he says "God forbid". Noah and his family would have had a similar situation, only with four families instead of one as Genesis 7:6-13 Noah was six hundred years old at the time of the flood, Also Lot in Genesis 19:30-38

I've had similar conversations with some of my friends over the years, we need to understand that, all these events happened prior to the law being given to Moses, and for these events happening as scripture says it does, and as per God's plan, I believe. I do hope this helps.

1 Corinthians 1:25 "Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men."

Hi Rod,

No, there are no scriptures that support that there were more people on earth than Adam and Eve. The scriptures you present only tells us how God made male and female. This is true for all humans. All of us come from dust and go back to dust. It does not say he only made two. I do not believe one married couple can produce the population we now have. I do not believe that the children of Adam and Eve married each other and reproduced. It is more logical to believe there were other people for them to marry.

This is just how I see it, and it doesn't change good or evil. It doesn't change God, but it does explain that Adam's children did not marry each other.

Adam and Eve are standing alone and that does tell us sin began with a man and his wife. All of humanity needs to know what that sin was.

Until Adam and Eve had sons and daughters they were the first two people on earth as per scripture.

Marilyn you say that "I don't believe Adam and Eve were the only two people on earth". do you have scripture to support that.

Genesis 2:7 "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." Genesis 2:22 "And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man." Genesis 2:23 "And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man." Genesis 2:24 "Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh."

About you saying that the bible says not to worship Jesus... uhm Jesus Christ is God.

He says in John 14:1 (KJV)

" John 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me."

Another scripture

Hebrews 1:1-6

"[1] God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, [2] Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; [3] Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; [4] Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. [5] For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? [6] And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. "

Colossians 1:15-20 (KJV)

"[15] Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: [16] For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: [17] And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. [18] And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. [19] For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; [20] And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven."

Trying to have a blind faith isn't good, what we really have to do is to search the scriptures (study it !).

Dear Connie, You are right in that we shouldn't worship images, but don't let that turn you from the truth. There is a right way to salvation, In fact there is only one way!! And here it is -

John 14:6. Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Matthew 7:13-14. Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it..

We don't hesitate to believe that.

Hi Elison, The way you addressed you question you have the order of creation correct. God started with Adam and Eve. If they had other people on earth whats the point in forming Adam from the dust of the ground?

( Genesis 2:7. And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. ) And why go through the trouble of taking a rib from Adam to make woman?

In this next verse you see Adam is all alone.

Genesis 2:18. ( And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.)

In this next verse he makes woman!!

Genesis 2:21-22. And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;

And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.

And then he commanded them to populate the earth.

( Genesis 1:28. And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: ) notice this next verse, Eve is the mother of ""ALL"" living.

Genesis 3:20. And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.

So we come to their Children.

In order to do what God commanded, it's reasonable to believe Adam and Eve had daughters and they populated the earth through their children. I don't understand why people see that's a problem with God!! We do know the world we live in now started with just 8 souls. I hope that helps

I am curious about what happened and what you said that was censored.

I am also a truth seeker. I am not one to declare myself wise to say that there is a right way to salvation. But i am not a fan of religious traditions concerning how many people worship Jesus through idolatry. I will advise you to ask God with all your heart to guide you to your answers through his written words. Wherever you may find them . God will always confirm what is his truth . I do not dismiss the importance of the death of Jesus, but even the scriptures of what Jesus declares clearly says to not worship him. That the laws of Moses and the commandments should not be forgotten.

I love the Lord my God with all my heart and soul. I fear to follow any religious traditions that i can not understand. Especially when it comes down to man made images. This is just my belief. My blind faith.

I don't believe Adam and Eve were the only two people on earth. They are alone in their story to show that sin began with a man and his wife and not with two men or two women. There were other people for their children to marry. This ends the confusion about how the earth was populated.

NicholasB,

I thought the following passage might be of interest to you.It is from Philippians 3:3-12 "For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.Though I might also have confidence in the flesh.If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh,I more: circumcised the eighth day,of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin,an Hebrew of the Hebrews;as touching the law,a Pharisee;concerning zeal,persecuting the church;touching the righteousness which is in the law,blameless.

But what things were gain to me,those I counted loss for Christ.Yea doubtless,and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord:for whom I have suffered the loss of all things,and do count them but dung,that I may win Christ,and be found in him,not having mine own righteousness,which is of the law,but that which is through the faith of Christ,the righteousness which is of God by faith;that I may know him,and the power of his resurrection,and the fellowship of his sufferings,being made conformable unto his death;if by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.Not as though I had already attained,either were already perfect:but I follow after,if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus."

What Paul is saying is that all the things he had in his life as related to him and God,became just so much dung,in comparison to what he has now received in Christ.He was starting anew and this time in the truth of God.Chris has spoken well to you,and born again starts anyone onward and into an experience of growing closer to God through study of his word.

I would encourage you to be patient with your wife in regards to your&her salvation.As husband you are to love her unconditionally,as God loved you.Love is not based on a feeling,but instead a commitment.Baptism is only an outward witness of an inside event.

Brother Nicholas, welcome to the family of God, born through the shed Blood of Jesus Christ & the indwelling Holy Spirit. It's always a joy to hear of a searching soul being freed from the shackles of religion, even vain philosophies & the Masons, & finding new Life & Hope in Christ alone. If you've come by way of the Cross of Christ, admitted your sinful irreparable condition to God, trusted in the Blood of Christ to cleanse your heart & through His death being made acceptable to God, then God's Word & Spirit declare you to be saved, freed, & accepted forever. It not only comes as a sure Word from God ( John 8:36), but also the witness to your heart that you have God's Spirit indwelling & that your life has taken a new course & you will think & do things very differently. And I'm sure this witness is ever before your wife.

When we're born again, we're immediately baptized in & by the Holy Spirit. He sets His Seal upon you ( Ephesians 1:13,14) marking you out as God's very own & you now have all the resources of Heaven at your disposal (for teaching, directing, comfort, answered prayer, strength in troubles, power against the spiritual forces) - but only when we fully trust Him & not waiver in faith. But this increases in our Christian walk & proving Him faithful in every situation.

Water baptism is simply an outward testimony of an inward change. It is confirmation to your own heart & against the forces of evil that will make you doubt that great event in your life, & is a testimony to others of your departure from all that bound you, to the freedom now in Christ. So yes, water baptism is different from Spirit baptism, but it should follow what has been done within you, as soon as you are able to. Join a good Bible-believing Church & immediately share your testimony with the Pastor/Elder, so that your faith & stand for Christ is shown to all. Btw, Jewish baptism was primarily as 'washings' necessary in the faith & not of the same meaning as Christian baptism.

Hello brothers and sisters. I'm asking a question about Salvation. I'm a new Christian. I have a KJV bible and have been reading it everyday in depth trying learn more of what I must due to be truly saved as well as my Catholic wife. It has been brought to my attention that in the book of John, water baptism is different from a spiritual baptism? I know I am not Jewish and so I don't think a water baptism applies to me to be saved, after reading Ephesians by Paul. It seems to me that maybe churches that say I must be baptized in water to be saved is false? I'm new to Christianity, and I'm asking due to my ignorance of understanding the bible. I know that Jesus was coming to save the Jews and so maybe their Salvation is different from Gentiles, aka Me and my wife? I would love to have someone let me know how to truly be saved because I suffered spiritual attacks from being a philosopher and learning about eastern religions and free masonry. Thank you!

How did Adam and Eve's children get a wife?

I am going to comment to mark this conversation before I read the verse . I think crosses are idolatry and found many references on this topic

Goodmorning ,The cross reference verse I have for colossians 3:18 is Ephesians 5:22. Hope that helps.

So, I looked at Colossians 3:18 in my KJV & it gives only a single cross reference, & that to Ephesians 5:22, "Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord."

And to me, this cross reference seems more appropriate, as it is still the same (human) author (Paul) relating the same thought to both the Colossian & Ephesian Christians. And in Ephesians, Paul is stating his "fit in the Lord" is the same as his "unto the Lord".

If your KJV is directing you to Ephesians 5:3, then I'm sorry, I can't see the connection at all. May I ask which KJV you are using, whether it's a particular Study or Reference Bible? Mine is the Ryrie Study Bible. In asking that of you, I would be interested in any of the other readers of this thread to check their Bibles & see what the cross reference is to their Colossians 3:18 verse (whether similar to yours, mine, or another). I remained mystified to your cross reference & would like to do further examination on this.

Marilyn Taplin,

'Are you saying Adam and Eve problem was that they loved money?"

Wealth is something in your life that becomes a part of your self image. Adam and Eve wanted/desired what they thought the fruit would give them, namely, wisdom/wealth. As Paul states, it is not the money itself, but the covetous desire first seen in Adam and Eve, and thereby the root of humanity. Instead of imparting wisdom, the fruit changed the status of Adam and Eve from living to dead to God. Shortly after uncovering their sin, God himself gave wisdom to Adam and Eve, in the understanding that accompanied the blood sacrifice for their acceptable coverings, all of God and out of his graciousness.

"I know the Bible says what you quoted but"

That little three letter word "but" tells me you are more interested in pushing your own thoughts, rather than listening to the Bible.

You never answered the dispute you have with Peter, Paul and John on the sinlessness of Jesus. Are they wrong or are your suppositions wrong?

I hate to have to repeat myself for I have already posted this to explain "as it is fit in the Lord". Do you use the KJV of the Bible and do you use the cross references? They do give you additional information. You seen to have trouble believing the scriptures. Look at the cross reference. It explains what "as it is fit in the Lord" means.

The following two verses give a man and his wife instructions not to sin. "Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord" ( Colossians 3:18). This indicates a man and his wife can do what is unfit and the cross reference to "as it is fit in the Lord" refers one to Ephesians 5:3, "But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not be once named among you." Throughout scripture many verses tell a man and his wife there is a form of sexual behavior they should not engage in. The cross reference tell us fornication is unfit for a man and his wife.

Are you saying Adam and Eve problem was that they loved money? Sin began in Eden. Are you saying if we get rid of a desire for money that will end all evils such as incest, child molestation, prostitution, murder, war, etc. Are you saying if we get rid of money all people can commit oral and anal sex-- all people can be homosexuals and that is okay. Are you saying the difference between good an evil is the desire for money?

"But fornicationlet it not be once named among you, as becometh saints, Eph 5:3." If you call yourself a Christian you cannot commit fornication even once. Once is all it takes to be unholy-profane.

When looking at Jacob and Esau we learn that Esau was a fornicator. Was his problem the love of money or was it fornication? Heb 12:16 "Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright."

I know the Bible says what you quoted but throughout the Bible sin is not the love of money. Sin is using the body in a way god forbids. We need to understand sin. The end of sin will bring heaven to earth.

"as it is fit in the Lord". Your understanding of this word "fit" seems to be, once again, linked to sexual misbehaviour/deviation. Whereas, "fit in the Lord" has nothing to do with sex, the instruction there is: 'wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is the proper thing to do, according to God's Desire & Plan for marital order & harmony'. This is the position of the wife to the husband & the attitude that she should adopt. And lest husbands see this instruction as a directive to his wife to 'worship him in everything', husbands should also note the next verse: "husbands love your wives & be not bitter against them". When the husband truly loves his wife, esteeming her, supporting her & giving of himself to her completely, he can then expect that position of loving submission from her. Now if you see some sexual deviation, whether from the wife or husband, I really don't know how you can possibly arrive at that. You recently did mention a Pastor you sat under many years ago - I wonder whether he or another has drilled this type of biblical mangling into you (& others) so that you can only see sexual perversion in so many biblical situations. Clearly, there are many warnings given in the Scriptures - but please, let's not force Scriptures to mean something they're not intended to do.

Can you supply supporting Scriptures to show that a husband & wife should be avoiding forms of sexual behaviour? Your quoting of Jude 7 is correct regarding 'fornication', but to then apply that example to husbands & wives is not only a 'long stretch', but quite inaccurate, as Adam & Richard have well explained. I can admit to the possibility of rape within marriage, when force is used for sexual gratification, but a husband & wife are "no longer two, but one flesh" ( Matthew 19:5,6). As a single loving unit, they give themselves over to each other in every respect, & in the sexual realm, are also free to express themselves for the bonding & happiness of each other.

I agree also Adam, how can they be fornication between husband and wife without a third party? MARILYN used Jude 1:7 to define fornication but the situation in Jude doesn't parallel with Adam and Eve,

Where is the husband and wife in Sodom and Gomorrah? Sodom and Gomorrah fornication was going after ""STRANGE"" flesh.

Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after ((((STRANGE flesh)))

Where is the strange flesh in the garden? Satan?

Or is she indirectly describing fornication the way she did in one of her earlier posts when she mentioned the type of sex Job didn't believe in?

She can directly clear this up but that would be uncomfortable,

So let's go back to the source of this topic.

MARILYN TELL US IN WHAT WAY DID ADAM AND EVE COMMIT FORNICATION?

Marilyn Taplin,

"It is the foundation of all our social ills."

The Apostle Pall disagrees with you, "For the love of money is the root of all evil" 1Timothy 6:10