Discuss Ephesians 4 Page 17

1 Corinthians 11:3

But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

Ephesians 5:23

For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

Ephesians 4:15

But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

COMMENT:

If both partners are Christians, then the headship indicated in these few verses, show how it works. As the husband follows Jesus, the wife should have no trouble following her husbands lead.

If there is disagreement, then the two should find scripture to work out a reconciliation.

If one of you is an unbeliever in Jesus; marriage may difficult at times. It is the witness of the saved partner, and their behavior that may bring the unsaved to believe in Jesus one day.

1 Corinthians 7 is the marriage chapter. 1 Corinthians 13 is the Love chapter.

I hope this helps you. Mishael

Jesus said to His Disciples: Come. Follow Me.

For all those men it meant giving up everything. Peter was married and had children. Matthew was a prosperous tax collector.

Not many people in 2020 want to do that. We're not used to giving up anything. Look how we handle loss due to Co-vid.

If our Churches don't reopen then everyone needs to support a radio, tv, or streaming ministry. God sees. It's all wide open.

We are to follow Jesus. He can't teach us on the road like he did His disciples. (On job training)

But we've Got our Bibles! We are to study to show ourselves approved unto God. Read Whole Books at a time. Buy a concordance to find things faster.

Concentrate on how to talk with people about their sins: have you ever told a lie? Stolen something? Coveted your neighbors riding lawn mower? His house? His wife?

If we even break one commandment, we are guilty of all 10. Sin is supposed to sting like ant bites.

If you just get a few people saved; you have followed the Master, Jesus.

Paul was a prisoner because he was a servant of the Lord. Walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called. They had been called to a glorious calling, as he had shown in chapter 3. The Christian has been called to the highest calling with which man has ever been honored.

Pray to the Lord of the Harvest. To be brought to "divine appointments". Ask the Lord to allow angelic protection and support.

Pray before you go and pray for everyone you met or prayed for.

You may meet A "disciple" want to be. Meet them at McDonalds or Taco Bell till you get to know them better. Invite them to church.

It's good to take a baby lamb to a Pastor/ Shepherd.

Ask the Holy Spirit to bless your evangelizing work. Thank Him for HELPing you recall scriptures.

Pastor, you can substitute the vocation with calling. Paul is giving instruction and the call to the Gentiles.

He says that you walk worthy of the vocation, or calling, wherewith you are called. None of us are worthy from a human standpoint. But the Greek word for worthy means balanced, or equal. You go down to the marketplace and put an item on one of the balances, and you would put money on the other side until it equals out. And that's how much the item is worth, and that's how much you pay for it in the marketplace.

He's saying live worthy of your calling. This is important for Gentiles. It's our problem more so than the Jews. The Jewish people are already religiously disciplined. Their problem is that they cannot let go of the old religious discipline to function in the newness of the Spirit of God. But they're still disciplined!

When a Gentile gets saved, the Gentile comes into the church and he only has one focus. I got saved, I'm going to heaven, and I'm spending some fellowship with my brothers and sisters. But Paul says wait a minute, you have to come out of paganism. You can't just bring that into the church and make everything the same.

So the Gentile has a problem. We have to come out of the pagan lifestyle, out of the old life that we used to live, and walk in a whole new life. Many people are taught that you receive Jesus and you take Him with you as you continue on in your life, instead of receiving Christ and becoming a new creation, leaving off from the old and walking in the new.

Some in the ministry don't even understand that. They bring paganism, the lifestyle of the Gentiles into the church because the Gentiles won't come unless we have things there for them that they used to have before. Many churches have to bring something into the church in order to keep people entertained, or else they get bored. So they bring the things of the world into the church to attract the Gentile. They won't tell you to repent and leave it behind!

Eph 4:1What does the word vocation mean in this verse?

Just a short addition to why people look different from each other.

God moulded Adam from dust. If you look at dust under a microscope, there are all colors in the dust.

Adam, in Hebrew, translates as RED. His color was reddish. I am NOT saying Adam was Native American.

People these days are the color of their ancestors.

We don't need to get drawn away by ideas that we need to have white hair like wool, as describes Jesus in Revelation 1.

Who do we know that LIES continually and is called the Father of Lies in the Bible.

Satan has used this against mankind since the beginning.

Look at our society, even planet wide: fighting and killing others who are different from us. It has to stop. Be happy to be a child of God; who accepts us by way of the BLOOD of JESUS.

Doesn't it make practical sense that if there are 400 hundred (I'm guessing) varieties of roses.... that the same thing happens for humans too ?

I don't make this stuff up. I PRAY and sit before God, till the answer comes. He doesn't tell me private information ever!

He cares deeply what people are going through.

Look at Creation's colors! More beautiful than anything humans can attempt to copy.

Stop and get before the Lord and ask Him yourself. God called His creation VERY GOOD. Why can't we believe what HE says?

Page 3.

I've mentioned the above, not for any other reason but to emphasize that what man sees is not always what God sees. If your pastor/elder or anyone teaches that the saving work of God in a person, through His only Begotten Son, can also make allowance for error in God's election or if the 'saved' person chooses to reject Christ later on, then that can only have merit, if we look at a believer's standing through the eyes of man. Man sees a believer who turns his back to God (i.e. we first see him as a 'productive' Christian & now one living entirely in the flesh), then we say that person has lost his salvation, destined for Hell. God's view is entirely different. Please take time to read Romans 8, & especially focus on verses 29-39 to understand that God makes no mistakes & when we are truly His, we won't even contemplate departing from His great Love & our most Holy Faith.

Page 2.

And it is the reality of the Holy Spirit's indwelling in our lives that enables us in bringing forth all the Fruit, all of the Graces of Christ, in us for the blessing of many. This indwelling is not just to give us a 'nice feeling' of being loved & blessed by God, but also to give us the power to live a victorious life, of endurance & even to martyrdom. And so when Mt 10:22, Rev 3:5 & others, speak of endurance & overcoming to the end, we know that this is the final test of the worth of our salvation experience. All who were martyred: the apostles (except John), Polycarp, Wycliffe, Huss, Tyndale, Bonhoeffer, Elliott & his four friends with him, & countless more through the ages, all demonstrated the reality of their salvation & the cost to love the Lord to the end. When I read that many of them who were put to the burning stake, recited Psalm 51 for focus & strength during that walk to their death, I'm deeply moved by their singular thought to confess any known sin that would impede their abundant entrance into the Lord's presence rather than to the torment that awaited them. And so I ask myself: Would I be able to do the same? I believe that the answer to that is found in the Word: YES, we who are saved will have the Spirit's fortitude to stand confidently. ( Acts 7:55.56) shows us Stephen's vision that strengthened him to accept death courageously. (onto Page 3).

Page 1.

Ed. From my reading of the Scriptures on this matter, I believe that a Christian cannot lose his/her salvation. However, rather than enter debate over this, I always ask the simple question: what is a Christian according to the Bible? This question on the surface may not require too much thought as one could quite simply say, that a Christian is one who has demonstrated faith in the finished Work of Christ on the Cross & has been forgiven on that basis. This statement alone sets him apart from any other religion or philosophy.

Yet, that person & those around him will generally accept this person as a Christian, but we see that there are checks on the road we travel on, to examine the authenticity of that salvation. So, what I see is that how we look at a claim to be a Christian is not necessarily how God looks at it. We see only as a man sees: a baptism, a changed life, hunger for God & the Word, ministry, evidence of apparent spiritual fruit/gifts, etc. & we praise God for such a life & we are then convinced. Or is being a Christian more than this? Something that most of us have never been tested on are: the matter of endurance, finishing the race, overcoming Satan & possibly martyrdom. These may not be observable traits to us now, but these (& taking the mark of the beast, as Bob pointed out), are what make up the full requirements for being a true follower of Christ. And please note that I'm not adding anything extra to our salvation, but to show that our 'true' salvation also encompasses these other aspects that may only be provable at our journey's end. (onto Page 2).

Comment:

Yes there is. No person who has the Holy Spirit in dwelling, can call Jesus accursed.

They cannot call him Lord either. You have to choose now, whom you will believe.

Mark 3:29

But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:

James 2:7

Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?

Ephesians 4:3

And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

1 Timothy 1:20

Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.

Revelation 13:6

And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

Mark 3:28

Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:

Ed - I know we can not "lose" our salvation like you lose your car keys or a wallet.

However can we throw away our salvation?

Revelation 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

(Seems our names can be BLOTTED out of the book of life)

Exodus Chapter 32:31 And Moses returned unto the LORD, and said, Oh, this people have sinned a great sin, and have made them gods of gold.

32 Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written.

33 And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.

Jesus in Matthew 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved. (Why would Jesus say we must endure to the end?)

Jesus in Matthew 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

Revelation Chapter 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive [his] mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

12 Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

I do not care what sinners prayer anyone says, if they take the mark I believe their are doomed.

Sadly Millions of Church goers do not believe they will ever have to make this choice to refuse it.

In my Church we are taught that you can lose your salvation, but others say you can't. What is your opinion? The way that reads it seems my Church is correct.

Jeremiah 29:11

"For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the LORD, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope."

Jeremiah 33:6

"Behold, I will bring it health and healing; I will heal them and reveal to them the abundance of peace and truth."

Mark 4:39

"Then He arose and rebuked the wind, and said to the sea, 'Peace, be still!' And the wind ceased and there was a great calm."

Luke 1:79

"To give light to those who sit in darkness and the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace."

Romans 5:1

"Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ."

Romans 8:6

"For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace."

Romans 14:17

"For the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit."

Read more about this verse.

Romans 16:20

"And the God of peace will crush Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen."

Read more about this verse.

1 Corinthians 14:33

"For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints."

Read more about this verse.

2 Corinthians 13:11

"Finally, brethren, farewell. Become complete. Be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace will be with you."

Read more about this verse.

Galatians 5:22

"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness."

Read more about this verse.

Ephesians 2:14

"For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation."

Ephesians 4:3, 6:15

"Endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace."

Say these out loud: eye gate, ear gate, mouth gate. may you be lifted in the spirit of your mind, as you listen.

Ephesians 4:26. "Be ye angry, & sin not: let not the Sun go down unpon your wrath". He teaches us how to bridle our anger in such a way that, even though our anger is fierce, yet it does not break out, and that it is without delay quenched before we sleep. And this is so that satan may not take occassion to give us evil counsel through the wicked counsellors and destroy us. If it so happens that you are angry, yet do not sin, that is, bridle your anger and do not wickedly do that which you have wickedly conceived. Let not the night come upon you in your anger that is, make atonement quickly for all matters.

Hi Al

I'll share some of my reasons regarding baptism

Matthew 3:11 - I indeeed baptize you with WATER unto repentance

Who is "I"? It is John the Baptist. What is he baptizing with? Water. Why? For 'repentance' (reviewing one's actions and feeling contrition or regret for past wrongs, which is accompanied by commitment to and actual actions that show and prove a change for the better.)

Who was John baptizing? Jews..What were they repenting of? Dead WORKS

( Matt. 3:11) But he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear:

he shall baptize you with the HOLY GHOST (Spirit), and with FIRE

Who was John talking about? Jesus .So Jesus baptizes us with the Holy Spirit and Fire (Fire is definitely not water)

Then Ephesians 4:4-5 says:

There is ONE body, and ONE Spirit, even as ye are called in ONE hope of your calling;

ONE Lord, ONE faith, ONE baptism

1 = 1 Which baptism is it? by water? or By Fire(= Holy Spirit)?

If I have to pick ONE BAPTISM I choose Jesus'

Now, WHO had John the Bap. been baptizing? JEWS

Who did Jesus come for?

The Jews ( Matt. 15:24)

Who were the apostles first called to go to? The Jews ( Matt. 10:6)

So, Jesus and John the Bap. were just dealing with the Jews at the time (In fact, until He rose again - Jesus' ministry was primarily to the Jews - He even referred to the Gentiles as 'dogs' ( Matt. 15"26)

How does Jesus save? By Grace=NO more WORKS

How would the Jews get saved? By Grace, right?

They needed to turn (def. of 'repentance') away from depending on their works( Heb. 6"1) and depend solely on Jesus to be saved.

John baptized The Jews w/water to show they had repented from depending on the Law

The Gentiles never even knew about the law so they didn't need water baptism

Jesus didn't need the thief on the cross to be baptized by water



And so,water baptism is associated w/the Jews - & it was newly saved Jews who thought it was necc. for ALL, but Paul knew better ( I Cor. 1:17)

Sincer. KG

While I do believe that the media and politics have "manipulated" details, for their own nefarious reasons. I do believe this is a horrible virus, worse than "just the flu". And to say anything else is showing a lack of compassion and sensitivity to those that have gone through it, or will still have to go through it. Whether it is the person, or their families, or the first responders, and healthcare workers. God's word says everywhere: Matt 7:1 Judge not lest ye be judged.... Ephesians 4:32 Be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted...

I just read your comment. God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world and received into glory. God did this all by Himself. God was manifest( made visible in the flesh of Jesus Christ). He is the Father of creation, the Son ( his flesh) in redemption; and the Holy Ghost in the church. The idea of a triune Godhead is not found in the Bible. Read Isaiah 9:6; Isaiah 43:10-13; St. John 1:1-14; St. John 17:6; St. John 8:21-24; St. John 14:9-10; Luke 24:44; Colossians 1: 13-16; Hebrew 1:1-4; I John 1:1-3; Revelation 1:13-20; Revelation chapter 5. These are only a few of the scripture that validate the Oneness of God. God has many names and many attributes. He appeared in many theophanic forms in the Bible. But His greatest revelation to man was as the Man Christ Jesus. Jesus is His Saving Name. Jesus is God. God is Jesus. From Genesis to Revelation, there has only been one God, One Spirit, and One Savior. Ephesians 4:4-5 tells us that there is one Lord, one faith, and one baptism. One God and Father of all...God does not have three personalities in His head. God is our savior; and He loved us so much that He was willing to die for us and rise again for our salvation. What an awesome God that we serve!

Leverda,

John 15:1 says I am the true vine, and the word true means genuine, versus symbolic. I am the genuine vine, and my Father is the husbandman, literally earth-worker, the farmer of the vineyard.

In the Old Testament, the vine was always used an example of Israel, especially Isaiah Chapter 5 Verses 1 through 7, also known as the song of the vineyard, how that God planted a vineyard and it was the nation Israel. But they grew wild grapes, and thorns grew and God allowed the vineyard to be overrun by the wild animals, and that was the symbol of His judgment against Israel.

And so when Jesus, now talking to His disciples, He says I am the genuine vine, not the symbolic one of the Old Testament. I am the genuine vine and My Father is the farmer.

j

could someone tell more about John15:1

Just to add to some comments above, regarding Sprinkling & Immersion baptism: Both are processes initiated by the Lord (God / Jesus). The most important thing is your soul and the spirit dwelling in you. In Acts - the jailor and his household (adults & infants) was baptised when instantly when Paul & Silas made him knew they did not ran away from prison. It was not immersion; but was recorded and they gave their lives. The Eunuch with Philip was baptised while on their way (without necessarily passes through church protocols); he gave his life.

What is important here as a Christian is to recognize your sins, drop them before the Lord. See yourself as an unworthy person who needs mercy from God and who has done something wrong knowingly (as a youth/adult) and unknowingly (as a child/infant/ignorant of the laws); thereby requesting for grace, mercy and compassion from the Lord.

God has shown his love for man in that while Abraham gave-up Isaac for the sacrifice in obedient to God's demand for testing of his faith, God gave His only begotten Son (born & not created) to save mankind, sending the Holy Spirit to confirm the Son's authority.

This is why when Christ was baptised, A voice came from heaven (Father) declaring Jesus (His Son), and a dove patched on Jesus (Holy Spirit) to show what is later termed as "Trinity" by the Orthodox churches. We must seek salvation and the door of salvation is always open to them that seeks grace, mercy and God's love. Remain blessed in Jesus Name - Amen.

Also ...

Matthew 16:15-19

15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? 16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

19 And I will give unto thee the keys...

No man (flesh and blood) revealed it, so what did Peter do, seeing he had the keys, when asked?

Acts 2:37-40

37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

Well, he gave them the truth, as revealed to him.

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Peter also thought all who can be baptised should, and told them the correct name to use, not just titles, the name.

2 Timothy 3:16

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

All scripture, so we cannot discard a single thing, we must fit within ALL scripture, not make the scripture fit our way of thinking, that is why we have hundreds of denominations.

Peter was ignorant and unlearned by the way.

Acts 4:13

13 Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus.

So I take knowledge of them also, the Lord cannot be the Author of confusion.

We know it is the Blood of Christ alone that saves, otherwise He would have died in vain.

Luke 23:43

And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

The thief didn't require water baptism to be saved, had he lived and come in contact with disciples he'd have heard same commandment, his action would have been same as Eunich.

Acts 8:36

And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

If the same Spirit that wrote the Word, be in us then would not that Spirit obey His own Word. And would It not act the same way in us as it did in them?

As for churches and people, I cannot say, but we all know that God is only obligated to His Word, for He is the Word, and heaven and earth shall pass away, but His words shall not pass away.

Matthew 15:9

But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Psalms 119:6

Then shall I not be ashamed, when I have respect unto all thy commandments.

2 Corinthians 10:5

Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

And Christ is the Word.

1 John 1:1

"That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;

2 John 1:6

And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

Ezekiel 36:27

And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

And this is love, that we walk after his commandments.

John 16:13

Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth:

God bless

Thanks Mishael for your input, particularly for the additional focus you had when being baptized. A life of dealing with the spirit world, not just fortune-telling, but with consultations & maybe divination, your baptism certainly gave witness to the supernatural world of your separation to the Holy things of God. That would have been a great testimony, fulfilment & freedom in your life.

My reason for being water baptized was a statement to God and the devil. I was an astrologer and I had no clue how much spiritual warfare was going to follow me.

If we don't fill our house (me) with Gods Word; the demons will stop by frequently to see how it's going and if you're serious about following Jesus.

I wanted the water baptism to show God I am serious and that I belong to Him, forever. And I wanted to show Satan that I love God and fully intend to follow Jesus.

I was done going to church: and when the church would corporate pray for the demons to leave the service. Well those demons would say to me, you better get up and come with us. It was very disturbing.

I believe for me that the baptism was a beautiful experience just between me and my Lord. It wasn't a lot of scripture that made me do it. I know the Holy Spirit was helping me get from just survive mode to conquering mode. I expect that Water baptism is different for everybody. It's really personal. We should consider what our statement is before going under the water and say it to God.

(from previous comment)

d. does it make sense to baptize a person sometimes weeks, months, years down the road (of Christian living)? Does biblical baptism allow for this time scale? Does it not make it somewhat meaningless & only serves to satisfy obedience to the command to appease the conscience? Also, to whom is the command given? To the baptizer or baptizee? Yet, so often we see that the baptizee is the one requesting to be baptized? Very strange.

e. and lastly, were Christ's apostles ever baptized in water, bearing in mind, that Paul was baptised, as he was not present with them at Pentecost? There is no mention of it, that I'm aware of, of any of the apostles speaking of their baptism in their letters, as important an event it is for any believer. Does the fact that they were baptized with the Holy Ghost only, exclude the necessity for water baptism? And there would be some today, who are baptized with the Spirit without the intervention of a preacher/evangelist.

References cited: Acts 2:37-41; 8:26-39; 9:1-18; 10:44-48; 16:27-33. Given to highlight that churches for the most part, are not staying true to the biblical warrant & pattern. Baptism should be a part of a believer's salvation - today we detach it to suit our terms & make a solemn event almost meaningless. So just offering this up for your thoughts & discussion, if needed.

Leigh, you've given some pertinent Scriptures on Water Baptism. What I find that churches today fail in (& I of course, refer to full immersion baptism) are the following:

a. why doesn't the person leading a lost soul to the Saviour, also baptize the person? I realize sometimes this would happen, but in most cases these days, the baptizee (one being baptized) is baptized by someone not connected to leading the soul to repentance. So who, from the biblical perspective & responsibility, should baptize the sinner? Is the Church fundamentally wrong in this, to allow another to baptize who was not a witness to the sinner's repentance?

b. why does the Church usually require the baptism enquirer to undergo a series of studies and/or interviews to ensure he knows the step he is about to take? Is this biblical? If the Pastor or Elder is unsure about the authenticity of the believer's testimony, can he in all good conscience baptize him?

c. why do we generally baptize within the Church building or property, when the other aspect of baptism is a public witness to a decision made & a changed life? I wouldn't say that fellow believers are true witnesses, rather they need to be the public or unsaved friends/relatives.

(see ongoing comment)

Leigh,

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I'm okay with agreeing that water baptism matters, just not for salvation.

You are very wise for wanting to take God's word for what it says. I think deep down, that is the desire of us all. We all want to take the word for what it says. But what happens when we all take the same approach that you take and we take it for what it says and then we disagree with each other on what it says? What then? How would you explain that?

Paul, please believe me when I say I'm not trying to be rude, but I only asked four simple questions. If you are only going to answer one at a time, and each answer comes with another question for me to answer, it could take several days to answer those four questions. You can please disregard the remainder of my questions as I am beginning to sense that I'm being played. Since I have failed to figure out exactly what you are looking for and my responses have not been sufficient enough, I hope someone here can do a better job helping you understand, if understanding is truly what you're seeking.

Thank you for your well worded reply. Ok, one at a time. It is my understanding that disciple means 'taught one'. Is that your understanding? Paul

Can I say my Brothers, by the Word, it does seem water baptism does matter, there is a correct way, and in whose name we do know.

Acts 10:44

"While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word."

Acts 10:48| View Chapter| Context

And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Peter commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.

Acts 8:38| View Chapter| Context

And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

Both went down into the water and he baptised him.

Matthew 28:19| View Chapter| Context

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Did not even the Lord command us to go and teach all nations baptizing them in His name.

From the Word it is important, from the Word there was a way of doing it, from the Word we have been told to do it.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

Mark 13:31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

Luke 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

The Word is our absolute and that we all agree.

God bless you my Brothers, as for me, in humility to His Word, I want to take it just as He said it or moved His people to write It.

Paul, I thought I've given a good explanation of my understanding of both Spirit and water baptisms. Apparently, I am not giving you the answer you are looking for. So before I can go any further, what is your understanding of water baptism? Do you think it is necessary for salvation? What makes a person a saved person? Also, do you think a disciple means a saved person? I want to respond, but right now it's beginning to feel like you are beating around the bush to get me to give you the answer you are looking for, and I haven't given you that answer yet!