Ah! The perpetual discussion on eternal security. Almost as exciting as discussing who the Sons of God were in Gen. 6:2, but I'll save that one for another time. Unfortunately, we live in a time when 'rightly' dividing the Word has become somehow more complicated. I believe the Bible has every answer to all the questions we need to have answered in order to walk circumspectly with the Lord. I'll make it brief, then, that the ability to lose one's salvation rests completely with that individual. God made the way, Christ made the sacrifice and the Holy Spirit provides the ability or power for us to follow Christ daily, unless we choose otherwise. Salvation from God does not negate one's ability to choose between God or something less. The Bible contains those who started well and finished poorly. So poorly they ended up in Hades. Saul, Israel's first king, was one whom God withdrew His spirit from ( 1 Sam. 16:14), Judas Iscariot whom Christ called to follow Him, willingly rejected and betrayed Christ after he witnessed and performed miracles/wonders in His name when sent out by Jesus in pairs ( Mark 6:7-13) and then, Demas, who forsook Paul for the love of the world ( 2 Tim. 4:10). But, finally, God has a word that many overlook in the Bible. It's a short 4-letter word called "blot". It's used in Exodus 32:32-33 where God tells Moses He will blot out the names of those who reject Him from His book and then in Revelation 3:5, Jesus himself declares that He will not blot out the names of those who overcome the trials and sufferings that believers face, but warns those who are not watching and keeping His commands. I know that my flesh nature would love the idea that once I get saved, I have no more worries about anything. Lack of rewards in Heaven will be no big deal because we won't feel shame or regret. You better read Luke 14:27 and Matt. 10:38, no one will wear Heaven's crown until they carry their earthly cross in His service. Thanks for your time.
Thank you Spencer... I read this article from Donahue he puts forth a compelling argument. I copied and pasted it as is unchanged.
"ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED" VERSUS REVELATION 3:5
by PATRICK DONAHUE
Revelation 3:5 reads "He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels."How could the doctrine of "once saved always saved" be true if the above verse is true? The same book shows that a person's name is not written into the "Book Of Life" unless he is saved:
20:15 whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire
21:27 no one will "enter into it (heaven) any thing that defileth, neither worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life."
Revelation 3:5 then necessarily implies that if a saved person does not overcome (temptation, persecution, etc.), if he does not remain faithful, then his name will be erased from the book of life, meaning he will no longer be in a saved relationship with God.
Other Bible passages teach the same thing about the book of life. When the Israelites made the golden calf while Moses was on the mount receiving the 10 commandments, God said in Exodus 32:33: Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.
Only the names of the saved are in the "book of life" to start with. And if it is possible to get your name blotted / taken out of the book of life, then it is clear that it is possible for a saved person to lose his salvation.The doctrine that a Christian cannot "fall from grace" is just plain untrue.
"Thank you I will have to investigate this further...
Below is a little of what I found on the subject.
The terms "Book of Life" and "Lamb's Book of Life" are used in Christian theology to refer to a concept found in the Bible. However, it's important to note that there is some variation in how different theologians and denominations interpret and use these terms.
1. **Book of Life:** The "Book of Life" is a term used in several places in the Bible, including the Old and New Testaments. It generally refers to a heavenly record or register in which the names of the righteous, the faithful, or those who belong to God are written. For example, in the Old Testament, Exodus 32:32-33 mentions the Book of Life. In the New Testament, Revelation 20:15 mentions the Book of Life, which is associated with the final judgment. Those whose names are found in the Book of Life are seen as those who will inherit eternal life.
2. **Lamb's Book of Life:** The term "Lamb's Book of Life" specifically appears in the Book of Revelation in the New Testament. It is often associated with the idea that those who belong to Christ, the Lamb of God, have their names written in this book. Revelation 13:8 and Revelation 21:27 are the primary verses where the Lamb's Book of Life is mentioned. Those who have their names in the Lamb's Book of Life are considered to be the redeemed and saved.
In some theological interpretations, these terms are used interchangeably to refer to the same concept, while in others, they are seen as distinct but related concepts. The interpretation of the Book of Life and the Lamb's Book of Life can vary among different Christian denominations and theological traditions.
In summary, both terms refer to the idea of a divine record in which the names of the saved or righteous are written. The specifics of how these books are understood and their significance in salvation can vary depending on theological perspectives."
I would say no, not at all. Revelation 3:5 says, "He that overcomes." That's a Present Participle. It should read "To the one who is overcoming, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels."
The Old Testament tells us there's more than one book ( Exodus 32:32-33, Daniel 12:1-2, Daniel 12:7-10, Psalm 69:28).
There's the book of life which has listed in it everybody that has received human life. And then there's the book of the Lamb, those who belong to Christ.
In the book of life, if a person rejects Christ, their name is removed from the book of life as if they've never been born. They're gone!
But no one is ever blotted out of the Lamb's book of life.
If you go back into the Old Testament and you study from those references, it will show you that there's more than one book. And the Jews knew that.
It's not that God has books up there. But it's just a human example or an illustration that God knows everything, all the people that have been born, and all the people that belong to Christ.
He say I will not blot out his name out of the book of life. And I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. Jesus said that He would do that.
A person whose name is in the Lamb's book of life will never be blotted out. That's how permanent salvation is!
8 Hear now, O Joshua the high priest, thou, and thy fellows that sit before thee: for they are men wondered at: for, behold, I will bring forth my servant the Branch.
9 For behold the stone that I have laid before Joshua; upon one stone shall be seven eyes: behold, I will engrave the graving thereof, saith the Lord of hosts, and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day.
10 In that day, saith the Lord of hosts, shall ye call every man his neighbour under the vine and under the fig tree.
These passages are deep with prophetic meanings. Christ (or the Branch) will bring the atonement; and allow fulfillment for Joshua and his fellowservants (part of the assembly inclusive of all saints) through the sevenfold spirit of God ( Revelation 1:4).
The stone that is engraved perhaps is signifying a new covenant like the one in Exodus 32:16; or is like the seal of the Spirit
in Ephesians 1:13; or 2 Corinthians 1:22.
Verse 10 is cross referenced by Micah 4:4 and other passages; indicating the Millennial promises for Israel which likely extends to the whole world at that time.
Here we see the reference to the two olive trees with the golden lampstand and the explanation. This parallels Revelation 11:4 as seen at the end of the chapter in verse 14. This chapter seems to imply Zerubbabel and Joshua as being the individuals in question here; while Revelation stronly suggests Elijah will return in the Tribulation ( Malachi 3:1). The second individual in my opinion based on Hebrews 9:27 could be Enoch; others have suggested other possibilities.
Lot's wife never demonstrated saving faith from what scripture would indicate; at the very least desiring more to turn back to see the fate of the city doomed for destruction rather than to escape. "Righteous Lot" ( 2 Peter 2:7-8) was vexed every day; and clearly quite compromised in his dealings when he offered his daughters to the men who were trying to break down his door to commit abominations. No mention of his wife is in the scriptures; as was with Sarah; for instance in Hebrews 11.
Today in church it was discussed how Abraham was said to be the only one who was a "friend" of God ( James 2:23). Exodus 33:11 states the same of Moses as well so technically my Pastor erred. My point here I may expound on later; namely the fact that God truly spoke in a different manner to them than many others in the Bible. The friendship; in other words went both ways. The discussion also came up today in Sunday school on how He is both Master and friend. This is a mystery in itself; and forces us beyond stereotypical cultural viewpoints toward such a relationship. As for now; I will just state that Lot had to be "shoved" out of his town literally; and the angels had to put up with his ridiculous bantering about going to the nearby little town; which was promptly abandoned once Lot saw what happened and hid in the mountains. Abraham and Moses both had slow starts and their own issues; but were able to have close fellowship with the Lord as we see from Genesis 18:17 with Abraham and Exodus 32:30 where Moses acted to intercede to prevent God from destroying all of Israel. That scene is another discussion as to its theological implications.
We all should strive to be as the saints in the "hall of fame" in Hebrews 11; not stubborn like Jonah as an ox. Nonetheless these all are true believers. We CANNOT claim God's promises with an imaginary Christ or on other terms than scripture dictates and expect it to be true.
In Revelation 3:5, John gives an exhortation to the church. He says, "He that overcomes, and that's a Present Participle.
To the one who (is) overcoming, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will (not) blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
We are given references to the Old Testament that tell us there's more than one book. ( Exodus 32:32-33, Daniel 12:1-2, 7-10, Psalm 69:28)
There's the book of life which has listed in it everybody that has received human life. And then there's the book of the Lamb, those who belong to Christ.
In the book of life, if a person rejects Christ, their name is removed from the book of life as if they've never been born. They're gone!
But no one is ever blotted out of the Lamb's book of life.
If you go back into the Old Testament and you study from those references, it will show you that there's more than one book. And the Jews knew that.
It's not that God has books up there. But it's just a human example or an illustration that God knows everything, all the people that have been born, and all the people that belong to Christ.
He say (I will not) blot out his name out of the book of life. And I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. Jesus said that He would do that.
So, our names are entered into the Lamb"s book of life the moment we receive Christ. He will never blot out a believers name from that book. That's how permanent our salvation is. He will never blot our names out of His book!
Once more in verses 11 and 15 we see how the state of a person remains for all eternity; either in Christ and entirely dead to the old self and in heaven; or else remaining in a sinful state no doubt punished for the specific severity depending on what types of sins are being judged.
There is no room for lingering on any aspects of this life; as heaven will be paved with gold. There is truly joy to service which those not in Christ cannot comprehend. It will no doubt be fellowship of the saints that moves beyond male/female and all barriers that the cares of this life tend to separate us from now.
The focus of verse 18 and 19 are what I would like to focus this study on. The first verse warns of anyone adding to the prophecy that God will add the plagues in this book. Since that involves anything in the seal; trumpet or vial judgments it may allow for some hope of repentance. The next verse; however indicates a name being removed from the book of life for those who take something out of it. This is the only verse in the Bible warning of direct response of taking someone out of the book of life. ( Exodus 32:33). The earlier verse in Revelation 3:5 shows someone NOT taken out of the book.
Personally; I would tend to think this would refer to the book of all the living on earth who; when lost are not able to retain it and thus enter the book of life in the first place. Therefore they die the second death. This would mean; of course that potentially everyone can come to Christ and it sort of decimates the idea of the doctrine of election. Frankly I had never paid much attention to this verse before. Furthermore the specific actions of meddling with God's Word is a specific way such an individual reveals their turning from whatever their conscience dictates to a delusion (see Romans 1; Psalm 19). However you slice it no one who messes with God's Word should be surprised by His judgments.
Moses orders the Levites, I believe, to consecrate themselves to the Lord for opposing their won brethren and sons that day. The Levites needed to be humble about this event. They needed to acknowledge that they were performing YHWH's judgment and should be sure to obey Him, knowing that they themselves could be judged in the same way should they turn from YHWH.
The next day, Moses addresses the people, telling them that they sinned greatly, and here Moses says that there is a need for an atonement for the sins of these people. Moses said he would go up to the LORD on their behalf. Moses was ready to be blotted out of the Book of Life for these people as an act of atonement if God would then forgive them. But he was not a perfect substitute as Jesus was, nor, being only man, and not God as Jesus is, Moses could not pay the infinite penalty for sin. But we can admire Moses' willingness to do this, just as Paul said that he wished that he would be accursed and cut off from Christ if it would mean that Israel could be saved. I do not think that Paul actually thought he, himself could improve on the sacrifice of Christ, but said this to express his deep desire for the redemption of his own people. Moses perhaps had a look to Calvary in this instance, too, seeing ahead the redemption of the Messiah.
YHWH tells Moses "Whoever has sinned against me, I will blot him out of my book." So, perhaps not everyone in the camp participated in this event. YHWH tells Moses to continue to lead the people to the place promised and that His Angel will go before him, and then reminding Moses of a future judgment when these people will be punished for their sin.
The chapter closes saying that the LORD plagued the people because of their sin with the calf. It does not specify what the plague or plagues were. But I imagine this punishment reminded them often of how they sinned and how seriously YHWH considered it to be and how deadly sin is.
Moses and Joshua saw the calf and the people dancing (perhaps around the calf, rather than with each other-as worship). Moses became so righteously angry that he threw the stone tablets down with such force that they broke. What a vivid display of breaking the law of God-which the people were doing with so much glee and revelry!
Moses wasted not time speaking to the people (he spoke quite loudly with the breaking of the tablets), but he at once burned the golden calf in the fire and ground it down into a powder. Wondering how he did that, didn't it melt? Was this a miracle? He then scattered the powder upon the water that the people used to drink. What was pure, clean water became tainted with the powder and Moses made them all drink this water. How vividly illustrative of how sin becomes part of us, like water and what we eat. We can't just wash it off. It permeates every part of us, just like the molecules of water and food become a part of every cell in our bodies.
Moses then addresses Aaron, asking what the people did to him to bring him to do this great sin. Aaron give a really lame story about throwing the the earrings into the fire and, "whallah" a calf came out! He even makes it seem like the people forced him to do this.
And so, Standing at the entrance to the camp, Moses makes a charge, "whoever is on YHWH's side come and stand with me"
Only the sons of Levi came and stood with Moses. Moses instructed the sons of Levi to use their swords and go through the camp and slay their brethren, companions, neighbors. These were people the Levites knew and loved, these were "family". That day, the Levites slew 3 thousand men. That is a very small number considering that the group numbered in the millions. But, in obedience to Moses, and, I believe, guided by YHWH, the Levites killed those YHWH had pre-ordained to be killed that day. I wonder if these men were the ones who led the way for the demands for a "god they could see" to worship
YHWH says He will consume them with His wrath. I wonder if God said this because His will was to do this and then Moses persuaded Him to relent, or if He told Moses this so that Moses would know that these people deserved nothing but wrath to emphasize the seriousness of sin. I tend to think it is the latter because I do not think God can be talked out of what He intends to do. The Word says He will accomplish whatever He wills to do and no one can stay Him.
But Moses intercedes for his people-just as Jesus intercedes to the Father for all of us, for we are no different than these Israelites, completely unable to keep His law perfectly, quickly falling into error in our beliefs, trying to substitute something more acceptable or less disturbing to our sensibilities for God's way.
YHWH would have been perfectly just to consume the Israelites with his fiery wrath, but at Moses' pleading, He shows mercy. He does the same for us, not bringing upon us the destruction and torment we deserve, but instead, He continues to be gracious and forgiving to us despite our sinfulness.
Moses then proceeds down the mountain, knowing that YHWH will not destroy the whole nation for this sin. He carried with Him the two tablets of the Decalogue made of stone that YHWH inscribed by Himself, not chiseled by Moses. These tablets of the Law were sacred and good, untainted by human hands and thoughts.
At some point Moses meets up with Joshua on the Mount, most likely where Moses had left him to wait. Interesting to think that Moses was on the Mount 40 days and nights, and so was Joshua, waiting for Moses to come back down. Joshua did not give up hope of Moses coming down again. He had faith in YHWH and was obedient. Joshua tells Moses, "There is noise of war in the camp." The Israelites must have really been raising a clamor. But Moses correct Joshua, saying that the noise is not of victory, defeat, but singing.
It would have been better for them to recite again and again the law Moses had given from YHWH that they had agreed to obey. But, as Paul said, the law was weakened by sin in that man's sin nature raises up to oppose these good commandments and entice every person to desire what the law prohibits and to not do what it proscribes. The Law could not keep the Israelites true to YHWH.
Verse 4 says that Aaron used an engraving tool on the calf. I wonder if He engraved any words or hieroglyphic images on it? He presents the calf to the people and says, "This is your god, O Israel, who brought you out of Egypt." Was Aaron calling this calf idol, YHWH, or was he ascribing their deliverance to one of the Egyptian cattle gods? Perhaps Amon-Re, the sun god.
Verse 5 says, "So when Aaron saw it, he built an altar before it.." Was this an altar of unhewn stones as YHWH had ordained or was it an altar similar to the Egyptian ones for the bull god? Aaron proclaims that "tomorrow is a feast to YHWH". Here syncretism already creeps into true religion ordained by God Himself. And so it has continued through history. How sad.
Verses 5-6 describe their worship and feasting. Rose up early. Offered a burnt and peace offerings. Sat down to eat and drink. Rose up to play. What kind of play was this? Did they become drunk? And did this "play" involve occultic practices or sexual lewdness. Was it respectful or raunchy? These people did not even bat an eye at what this "worship and feasting" entailed. They, having been concerned about Moses being on the Mount so long, now had no more concern for him. They may have thought they were now free of him and his strictness and insistence on doing right before YHWH. Seems like they traded both Moses and YHWH in for a newer, 'seeker-friendly" model!
Meanwhile on the Mount, YHWH tells Moses to go down to the people, telling them what they had done. YHWH calls MOSES' people stiff-necked and tells Moses to stand aside.....
But, as it were, the people were eager to take off these earrings and give them to Aaron. Seeing how willing they were to give something of universal value for the sake of their god, makes me wonder about the sacrifices of Abel and Cain. Abel's sacrifice was accepted but Cain's was not. Well, this offering of their earrings was not acceptable even though costly. God is not impressed with things man treasures. He wants true worship that honors Him and does not substitute anything for Himself. No 'stand=ins" for Him!
Amazingly, Moses had preached the Words of God concerning the commandments. The Decalogue was delivered orally to the people before the people agreed to follow God and His commands. This is what they assented to do. They clearly knew that they were not to:
First of all, worship any other god but YHWH.
And Second of all, never create an image of any kind to represent YHWH.
So, whatever the golden calf represented broke one of these paramount commandments. The top of the list, so to speak. WOW!
Did they not fear Him? Did they think that they could just exchange YHWH for a more acceptable and "tame" god? Did they really think that YHWH would cause His Presence to dwell within or upon this golden calf or that a different god could do this?
I don't think we can ever really know what the Israelites and Aaron were really intending here, but we can know that what ever their intents, these were gravely sinful.
Creating this golden calf took some time and skill. The gold needed to be melted down and a cast of some time needed to be made. This shows that there was plenty of time for these people and Aaron to reverse course under the conviction of their sin. Aaron did the fine tuning on the calf, using tools to refine the features of the image. They took great care to form this idol.
YHWH, of course, knows all things and He knew their intentions and also what was going on in the camp while with Moses on the Mount. Moses was unknowing
It is noteworthy to consider why the Israelites had gold earrings in their ears. Were these earrings that were punched through their ears so as to not be removable or were they earrings that could be taken on and off easily? Were they earrings that were given to them by Egyptians as they were leaving Egypt or were they worn by them in Egypt as a custom of Egypt or from Canaan? Or, perhaps, were put in their ears by their Egyptian masters as a sign that they were slaves to the Pharaoh?
Aaron tells them to "break them off" in the KJV. Other versions say that Aaron says to "take they off." If these earrings were a sign of slavery, Aaron may have been indicating to the Israelites that they were to take off what represented enslavement to Egypt and their idolatry and instead worship YHWH-though an image of Him-to show their freedom won for them by YHWH.
If the earrings were worn as an Egyptian custom, Aaron may have wanted the Israelites to remove what was of Egypt to worship YHWH without defilement by Egyptian things. If the earrings were a custom of the middle east and not Egypt, then perhaps Aaron was asking them to take them off to exchange this custom for the worship of this YHWH who delivered them in such mighty ways. Everything they knew of God in the past was now changed. So. perhaps Aaron was thinking along those lines. We cannot know that Aaron's intent was to bring the people into idolatry or to have the people divest themselves of past worship symbols (which the earrings may have represented) and now have this new symbol of YHWH, their Deliverer.
Whatever Aaron intended when the people came to him asking for him to make a sacred image for them, it is peculiar that he made an image of a created thing. He could have made a pedestal of some sort to offer incense, or some altar for a sacrifice, but not a depiction of YHWH or any other god.
Maybe Aaron thought that the people would not want to give up their valuable gold jewelry.
This is such a sad chapter. Just before Moses went up to the mountain again, the Israelites had covenanted with YHWH that they would not worship any other gods but him. They promised to obey all that He commanded.
But now, Moses was up on the mountain within the cloud of glory with its thundering and lightnings. They Israelites spoke to each other about this, and it did not take too long for them to decide that Moses must have been consumed on the mountain by YHWH. They looked to Moses as their deliverer, not YHWH. They feared YHWH. He was a God that they shrunk back from, being fearsome and definitely exercising authority and power to reach right down into their very hearts. So now what will they do?
How or who decided on the plan to make an image of "YHWH". Although I do not think they really wanted this image to represent how they had experienced YHWH-rather, they wanted a much 'tamer" god to worship-like the ones of they knew in Egypt. In Egypt there were several cattle gods. The bull image was considered a reference to the Supreme sun God, thus being depicted with a sun between his horns. The cow image was a representation of a female deity, Hathor, who gave birth to the sun god. She was the representation of all that was good about femaleness-motherhood and fertility. There was a calf-bull god in the surrounding areas named Hadid who was the storm god.
I think it is difficult to really know what was intended by Aaron making a calf as an image of worship. Was it intended to be like Hadid, the storm god, since YHWH's appearance on the mountain was accompanied with storm-like manifestations? Was it intended to represent YHWH or was it an exchange of YHWH for a familiar god from Egypt, Hathor or the Apis bull?
I guess I will have to research more on this.
Whatever Aaron was thinking, the people had asked him to make a god for them to worship. He chose to make a calf. It would seem that Aaron of all people would have put a stop to it!
Are you saying we are saved by both works and grace?
I did say I do believe we are saved by both.
But as far as Bible contradictions, they do exist.
And to say Paul and James contradict would not be an issue.
The Bible contradicts itself quite often.
It is not uncommon.
Nevertheless, it does not shake my faith in the Bible.
For example,
Matthew records Christ came through David's son Solomon ( Matthew 1:6)
But Luke records Christ came through David's son Nathan ( Luke 3:31)
Exodus 33:20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.
Exodus 33:11 And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend.
And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah. ( 2 Samuel 24:1)
And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel. ( 1 Chronicles 21:1)
Who provoked David, God or Satan?
Is Judah or Dan are a lion's whelp?
And of Dan he said, Dan is a lion's whelp: he shall leap from Bashan. ( Deuteronomy 33:22)
Judah is a lion's whelp: from the prey, my son, thou art gone up: he stooped down, he couched as a lion, and as an old lion; who shall rouse him up? ( Genesis 49:9)
And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people. ( Exodus 32:14)
And also the Strength of Israel will not lie nor repent: for he is not a man, that he should repent. ( 1 Samuel 15:9)
The fruit was of the "tree of the knowledge of good & evil"
Genesis 2:9 " And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food, the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil"
Genesis 2:15-17, Genesis 3:22
It is symbolic, spiritual & seemingly literal. If it were an apple tree, or fig I believe it would have said. See Matthew 21:19, Genesis 1:11,
Knowledge of good and evil, yet GOD's Word says the things of evil, we shouldn't learn. Genesis 6:5, Genesis 48:16, Exodus 32:2, Numbers 13 -14, Deuteronomy 1:39, (in context Deuteronomy 1:20-40 ) Hebrews 10:22, James 1:13-27,
Earl, you have a unique interpretation of the Bible.
Everything is God's Will, period. It's God's will to give man freewill. God is big and powerful enough to do this, even if people can't understand it and still want to deny it. God also is big and powerful enough to change His mind and let things play out, as the Bible says in Exodus 32:14, Genesis 18:32, and over a dozen other examples.
Maybe you believe you are a puppet or marionette 100% controlled by God. Did God force you to write this post beyond your will? Does God force you to eat at certain foods you dislike or do things you don't want to do throughout the day? Does he force you to take showers or use restrooms at random times when you don't want to? Are you a prisoner? If so, does this also mean you are perfect just like Jesus and don't sin? Have you ever lied to someone in your lifetime? If so, was that God forcing you to sin or was it 100% you? God doesn't cause anyone to sin ever.
None of the above applies to me as God blessed me with 100% freewill and I try very hard to use that for good and to serve the Lord. But like Paul who faced huge temptation and struggled, I wrestle with these daily choices and decisions and sometimes I make mistakes but repent and try hard to get back on track. Paul said to run the race, not to ignore the race and sit on the couch. Christianity is an active faith, not passive. Nearly every challenge in the Bible is for us to take action and make choices. Many are warnings about choosing good instead of evil.
Freewill that God gives man:
Psalms 119:108
Joshua 24:15
Philippians 1:22
Joshua 24:14-15
Matthew 25:25-30 - Jesus's parable of talents God condemned the lazy servant who choose poorly through fear. The Bible is filled with challenges of choosing to follow God instead of choosing to follow the world.
I find it unusual that you don't believe you have any freewill to make any decisions and are merely a puppet? Is that true? Have you prayed about this? God bless.
Last night I thought about how Samuel cryed over Saul, & I wondered if that is why Saul kept the power of the kingdom so long? 1Samuel 16:11Samuel 15:35, 1Samuel 28:5-20, 1Samuel 31, it was not GOD's Will for Saul to disobey HIM in multiple ways. Saul's kingdom was "ripped" from him, but was it because Samuel wept for him, mourned & sought GOD on Saul's behalf?
I remembered how Moses intercedede for all the Israelites that GOD was going to destroy & they are a nation today. Exodus 32:9-14,
Psalms 122:6, John 17, Ezekiel 22:23-31, John 14:14, John 16:24,
Hopefully these are helpful too, even though this is on the other spectrum of this discussion, yet fit within question I hope
"Then he took the calf which they had made, burned it int he fire, and ground it to a powder; and he scattered it on the water and he made the children of Israel drink it."
Interesting how the Israelites had to literally consume the golden calf idol they had demanded Aaron to make and had given him the gold to create it.
In this way they were made to "own" their idolatry and this action of drinking the water with the ground powder of the idol mixed in demonstrates that sin comes from within us and is manifested outwardly.
Repent simply means a change of mind resulting in action. There is no mistake. Keep in mind, the scholars who worked under King James spent over 7-years making sure all texts were interpreted correctly into English.
No. The KJV has it right. For a better look at why God repents when He does, we can look at Jeremiah 18:
6 O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the Lord. Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel.
7 At what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy it;
8 If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them.
9 And at what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it;
10 If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them.
WHICH BIBLE IS BEST FOR MEMORIZATION. - In Reply on Romans 8 - 2 years ago
ROMANS 8
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Ok, if you were a very bad anti-Christ spirit, would you add and delete things from the most used Bible in the world? Of course. You could be richer selling you're own version or brand.
Let us now memorize these next scriptures: REVELATION 22:18-21, Exodus 32:33, Deuteronomy 4:2 and 12:32
( good advise Deuteronomy 13:1-5 ), Gal. 1:8-9
I only buy Bibles that are published by THOMAS NELSON of Nashville.
You can find good Bibles on ABEbooks dot com. Read the description. You may want to upgrade to a KJV Bible Reference Bible. Preferably with center of each page, reference columns.
Numbers 20:7-12, is a portion of the whole story & reason.
Let's look at the bigger picture:
Numbers 20:12, please note it says "Because you believed me not, to sanctify me in the eyes of the children of Israel, therefore._._" , Please read Exodus, Moses' doubts: Exodus 3:11,13, Exodus 4:1,3,10,14, Exodus 4:24-26, Exodus 5:22, Exodus 6:12, Exodus 6:30, Exodus 14:11-15, Exodus 16:2-28, Exodus 17:2-7, Exodus 32:11-19,30,31,32,33, Exodus 33:1-3, Numbers 11:1-15, mercy ( Numbers 11:16-20,) Numbers 11:21-23, * Numbers 13, Numbers 13:30,31,32, * Numbers 14, very significant I believe, when they were supposed to take the promised land please read Numbers chapters 13 & 14, & notice: Numbers 13:30, Numbers 14:24, Numbers 14:22-23,
Interesting that you bring up Hezekiah, the LORD several times put that name in my thoughts. In 2 Chronicles 28:27 - 2 Chronicles 29, 30, 31, Hezekiah did much good. 2 Chronicle 32:30,
I felt a warning also about being like Hezekiah. In 2 Kings 18:16 , Hezekiah "cut off the gold from the doors of the temple of the LORD, and from the pillars._.' & gave it to the king of Assyira" I asked myself was it to save the people from war? Was it fear? Either way all that sacrifice & peace offering didn't stop the evil nor the attacks. 2 Kings 18:17-32, they even used that against Hezekiah when they mocked. 2 Kings 18:22, 2 Kings 18:29-30, 2 Chronicle 32, Isaiah 36:7-22,
Then Hezekiah came to Isaiah 2 Kings 19:1-5, & sought-after the LORD 2Kings 19:14-16,
Another warning I felt 2 Kings 20:12-18,
& 2Kings 20:19, he seemed unconcerned about the bad consequences Hezekiah himself had caused to his own offspring. 2 Chronicles 32:25-26, 2 Chronicles 32:27,
Hopefully these speak deeper to you as they did me. GOD help us * not give what is HOLY & sanctified to GOD over to enemies, * that we won't cause bad consequences to future generations, * that we will care about future generations & not life ourselves too highly with treasure. Remember Isaiah 1:23, Exodus 32:8, Deuteronomy 16:19,
Except receive the Gifts of GOD: 1 Corinthians 12, & 13
"ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED" VERSUS REVELATION 3:5
by PATRICK DONAHUE
Revelation 3:5 reads "He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels."How could the doctrine of "once saved always saved" be true if the above verse is true? The same book shows that a person's name is not written into the "Book Of Life" unless he is saved:
20:15 whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire
21:27 no one will "enter into it (heaven) any thing that defileth, neither worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life."
Revelation 3:5 then necessarily implies that if a saved person does not overcome (temptation, persecution, etc.), if he does not remain faithful, then his name will be erased from the book of life, meaning he will no longer be in a saved relationship with God.
Other Bible passages teach the same thing about the book of life. When the Israelites made the golden calf while Moses was on the mount receiving the 10 commandments, God said in Exodus 32:33: Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.
Only the names of the saved are in the "book of life" to start with. And if it is possible to get your name blotted / taken out of the book of life, then it is clear that it is possible for a saved person to lose his salvation.The doctrine that a Christian cannot "fall from grace" is just plain untrue.
Below is a little of what I found on the subject.
The terms "Book of Life" and "Lamb's Book of Life" are used in Christian theology to refer to a concept found in the Bible. However, it's important to note that there is some variation in how different theologians and denominations interpret and use these terms.
1. **Book of Life:** The "Book of Life" is a term used in several places in the Bible, including the Old and New Testaments. It generally refers to a heavenly record or register in which the names of the righteous, the faithful, or those who belong to God are written. For example, in the Old Testament, Exodus 32:32-33 mentions the Book of Life. In the New Testament, Revelation 20:15 mentions the Book of Life, which is associated with the final judgment. Those whose names are found in the Book of Life are seen as those who will inherit eternal life.
2. **Lamb's Book of Life:** The term "Lamb's Book of Life" specifically appears in the Book of Revelation in the New Testament. It is often associated with the idea that those who belong to Christ, the Lamb of God, have their names written in this book. Revelation 13:8 and Revelation 21:27 are the primary verses where the Lamb's Book of Life is mentioned. Those who have their names in the Lamb's Book of Life are considered to be the redeemed and saved.
In some theological interpretations, these terms are used interchangeably to refer to the same concept, while in others, they are seen as distinct but related concepts. The interpretation of the Book of Life and the Lamb's Book of Life can vary among different Christian denominations and theological traditions.
In summary, both terms refer to the idea of a divine record in which the names of the saved or righteous are written. The specifics of how these books are understood and their significance in salvation can vary depending on theological perspectives."
I would say no, not at all. Revelation 3:5 says, "He that overcomes." That's a Present Participle. It should read "To the one who is overcoming, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels."
The Old Testament tells us there's more than one book ( Exodus 32:32-33, Daniel 12:1-2, Daniel 12:7-10, Psalm 69:28).
There's the book of life which has listed in it everybody that has received human life. And then there's the book of the Lamb, those who belong to Christ.
In the book of life, if a person rejects Christ, their name is removed from the book of life as if they've never been born. They're gone!
But no one is ever blotted out of the Lamb's book of life.
If you go back into the Old Testament and you study from those references, it will show you that there's more than one book. And the Jews knew that.
It's not that God has books up there. But it's just a human example or an illustration that God knows everything, all the people that have been born, and all the people that belong to Christ.
He say I will not blot out his name out of the book of life. And I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. Jesus said that He would do that.
A person whose name is in the Lamb's book of life will never be blotted out. That's how permanent salvation is!
God Bless!!!
8 Hear now, O Joshua the high priest, thou, and thy fellows that sit before thee: for they are men wondered at: for, behold, I will bring forth my servant the Branch.
9 For behold the stone that I have laid before Joshua; upon one stone shall be seven eyes: behold, I will engrave the graving thereof, saith the Lord of hosts, and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day.
10 In that day, saith the Lord of hosts, shall ye call every man his neighbour under the vine and under the fig tree.
These passages are deep with prophetic meanings. Christ (or the Branch) will bring the atonement; and allow fulfillment for Joshua and his fellowservants (part of the assembly inclusive of all saints) through the sevenfold spirit of God ( Revelation 1:4).
The stone that is engraved perhaps is signifying a new covenant like the one in Exodus 32:16; or is like the seal of the Spirit
in Ephesians 1:13; or 2 Corinthians 1:22.
Verse 10 is cross referenced by Micah 4:4 and other passages; indicating the Millennial promises for Israel which likely extends to the whole world at that time.
Here we see the reference to the two olive trees with the golden lampstand and the explanation. This parallels Revelation 11:4 as seen at the end of the chapter in verse 14. This chapter seems to imply Zerubbabel and Joshua as being the individuals in question here; while Revelation stronly suggests Elijah will return in the Tribulation ( Malachi 3:1). The second individual in my opinion based on Hebrews 9:27 could be Enoch; others have suggested other possibilities.
Lot's wife never demonstrated saving faith from what scripture would indicate; at the very least desiring more to turn back to see the fate of the city doomed for destruction rather than to escape. "Righteous Lot" ( 2 Peter 2:7-8) was vexed every day; and clearly quite compromised in his dealings when he offered his daughters to the men who were trying to break down his door to commit abominations. No mention of his wife is in the scriptures; as was with Sarah; for instance in Hebrews 11.
Today in church it was discussed how Abraham was said to be the only one who was a "friend" of God ( James 2:23). Exodus 33:11 states the same of Moses as well so technically my Pastor erred. My point here I may expound on later; namely the fact that God truly spoke in a different manner to them than many others in the Bible. The friendship; in other words went both ways. The discussion also came up today in Sunday school on how He is both Master and friend. This is a mystery in itself; and forces us beyond stereotypical cultural viewpoints toward such a relationship. As for now; I will just state that Lot had to be "shoved" out of his town literally; and the angels had to put up with his ridiculous bantering about going to the nearby little town; which was promptly abandoned once Lot saw what happened and hid in the mountains. Abraham and Moses both had slow starts and their own issues; but were able to have close fellowship with the Lord as we see from Genesis 18:17 with Abraham and Exodus 32:30 where Moses acted to intercede to prevent God from destroying all of Israel. That scene is another discussion as to its theological implications.
We all should strive to be as the saints in the "hall of fame" in Hebrews 11; not stubborn like Jonah as an ox. Nonetheless these all are true believers. We CANNOT claim God's promises with an imaginary Christ or on other terms than scripture dictates and expect it to be true.
1 Corinthians 15:33,34
Acts 15:28,29; Exodus 26:1
POINT: Revelation 22:6-9;
Revelation 4:11
In Revelation 3:5, John gives an exhortation to the church. He says, "He that overcomes, and that's a Present Participle.
To the one who (is) overcoming, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will (not) blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
We are given references to the Old Testament that tell us there's more than one book. ( Exodus 32:32-33, Daniel 12:1-2, 7-10, Psalm 69:28)
There's the book of life which has listed in it everybody that has received human life. And then there's the book of the Lamb, those who belong to Christ.
In the book of life, if a person rejects Christ, their name is removed from the book of life as if they've never been born. They're gone!
But no one is ever blotted out of the Lamb's book of life.
If you go back into the Old Testament and you study from those references, it will show you that there's more than one book. And the Jews knew that.
It's not that God has books up there. But it's just a human example or an illustration that God knows everything, all the people that have been born, and all the people that belong to Christ.
He say (I will not) blot out his name out of the book of life. And I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. Jesus said that He would do that.
So, our names are entered into the Lamb"s book of life the moment we receive Christ. He will never blot out a believers name from that book. That's how permanent our salvation is. He will never blot our names out of His book!
Once more in verses 11 and 15 we see how the state of a person remains for all eternity; either in Christ and entirely dead to the old self and in heaven; or else remaining in a sinful state no doubt punished for the specific severity depending on what types of sins are being judged.
There is no room for lingering on any aspects of this life; as heaven will be paved with gold. There is truly joy to service which those not in Christ cannot comprehend. It will no doubt be fellowship of the saints that moves beyond male/female and all barriers that the cares of this life tend to separate us from now.
The focus of verse 18 and 19 are what I would like to focus this study on. The first verse warns of anyone adding to the prophecy that God will add the plagues in this book. Since that involves anything in the seal; trumpet or vial judgments it may allow for some hope of repentance. The next verse; however indicates a name being removed from the book of life for those who take something out of it. This is the only verse in the Bible warning of direct response of taking someone out of the book of life. ( Exodus 32:33). The earlier verse in Revelation 3:5 shows someone NOT taken out of the book.
Personally; I would tend to think this would refer to the book of all the living on earth who; when lost are not able to retain it and thus enter the book of life in the first place. Therefore they die the second death. This would mean; of course that potentially everyone can come to Christ and it sort of decimates the idea of the doctrine of election. Frankly I had never paid much attention to this verse before. Furthermore the specific actions of meddling with God's Word is a specific way such an individual reveals their turning from whatever their conscience dictates to a delusion (see Romans 1; Psalm 19). However you slice it no one who messes with God's Word should be surprised by His judgments.
Moses orders the Levites, I believe, to consecrate themselves to the Lord for opposing their won brethren and sons that day. The Levites needed to be humble about this event. They needed to acknowledge that they were performing YHWH's judgment and should be sure to obey Him, knowing that they themselves could be judged in the same way should they turn from YHWH.
The next day, Moses addresses the people, telling them that they sinned greatly, and here Moses says that there is a need for an atonement for the sins of these people. Moses said he would go up to the LORD on their behalf. Moses was ready to be blotted out of the Book of Life for these people as an act of atonement if God would then forgive them. But he was not a perfect substitute as Jesus was, nor, being only man, and not God as Jesus is, Moses could not pay the infinite penalty for sin. But we can admire Moses' willingness to do this, just as Paul said that he wished that he would be accursed and cut off from Christ if it would mean that Israel could be saved. I do not think that Paul actually thought he, himself could improve on the sacrifice of Christ, but said this to express his deep desire for the redemption of his own people. Moses perhaps had a look to Calvary in this instance, too, seeing ahead the redemption of the Messiah.
YHWH tells Moses "Whoever has sinned against me, I will blot him out of my book." So, perhaps not everyone in the camp participated in this event. YHWH tells Moses to continue to lead the people to the place promised and that His Angel will go before him, and then reminding Moses of a future judgment when these people will be punished for their sin.
The chapter closes saying that the LORD plagued the people because of their sin with the calf. It does not specify what the plague or plagues were. But I imagine this punishment reminded them often of how they sinned and how seriously YHWH considered it to be and how deadly sin is.
Moses and Joshua saw the calf and the people dancing (perhaps around the calf, rather than with each other-as worship). Moses became so righteously angry that he threw the stone tablets down with such force that they broke. What a vivid display of breaking the law of God-which the people were doing with so much glee and revelry!
Moses wasted not time speaking to the people (he spoke quite loudly with the breaking of the tablets), but he at once burned the golden calf in the fire and ground it down into a powder. Wondering how he did that, didn't it melt? Was this a miracle? He then scattered the powder upon the water that the people used to drink. What was pure, clean water became tainted with the powder and Moses made them all drink this water. How vividly illustrative of how sin becomes part of us, like water and what we eat. We can't just wash it off. It permeates every part of us, just like the molecules of water and food become a part of every cell in our bodies.
Moses then addresses Aaron, asking what the people did to him to bring him to do this great sin. Aaron give a really lame story about throwing the the earrings into the fire and, "whallah" a calf came out! He even makes it seem like the people forced him to do this.
And so, Standing at the entrance to the camp, Moses makes a charge, "whoever is on YHWH's side come and stand with me"
Only the sons of Levi came and stood with Moses. Moses instructed the sons of Levi to use their swords and go through the camp and slay their brethren, companions, neighbors. These were people the Levites knew and loved, these were "family". That day, the Levites slew 3 thousand men. That is a very small number considering that the group numbered in the millions. But, in obedience to Moses, and, I believe, guided by YHWH, the Levites killed those YHWH had pre-ordained to be killed that day. I wonder if these men were the ones who led the way for the demands for a "god they could see" to worship
YHWH says He will consume them with His wrath. I wonder if God said this because His will was to do this and then Moses persuaded Him to relent, or if He told Moses this so that Moses would know that these people deserved nothing but wrath to emphasize the seriousness of sin. I tend to think it is the latter because I do not think God can be talked out of what He intends to do. The Word says He will accomplish whatever He wills to do and no one can stay Him.
But Moses intercedes for his people-just as Jesus intercedes to the Father for all of us, for we are no different than these Israelites, completely unable to keep His law perfectly, quickly falling into error in our beliefs, trying to substitute something more acceptable or less disturbing to our sensibilities for God's way.
YHWH would have been perfectly just to consume the Israelites with his fiery wrath, but at Moses' pleading, He shows mercy. He does the same for us, not bringing upon us the destruction and torment we deserve, but instead, He continues to be gracious and forgiving to us despite our sinfulness.
Moses then proceeds down the mountain, knowing that YHWH will not destroy the whole nation for this sin. He carried with Him the two tablets of the Decalogue made of stone that YHWH inscribed by Himself, not chiseled by Moses. These tablets of the Law were sacred and good, untainted by human hands and thoughts.
At some point Moses meets up with Joshua on the Mount, most likely where Moses had left him to wait. Interesting to think that Moses was on the Mount 40 days and nights, and so was Joshua, waiting for Moses to come back down. Joshua did not give up hope of Moses coming down again. He had faith in YHWH and was obedient. Joshua tells Moses, "There is noise of war in the camp." The Israelites must have really been raising a clamor. But Moses correct Joshua, saying that the noise is not of victory, defeat, but singing.
And so Moses and Joshua came near the camp...
It would have been better for them to recite again and again the law Moses had given from YHWH that they had agreed to obey. But, as Paul said, the law was weakened by sin in that man's sin nature raises up to oppose these good commandments and entice every person to desire what the law prohibits and to not do what it proscribes. The Law could not keep the Israelites true to YHWH.
Verse 4 says that Aaron used an engraving tool on the calf. I wonder if He engraved any words or hieroglyphic images on it? He presents the calf to the people and says, "This is your god, O Israel, who brought you out of Egypt." Was Aaron calling this calf idol, YHWH, or was he ascribing their deliverance to one of the Egyptian cattle gods? Perhaps Amon-Re, the sun god.
Verse 5 says, "So when Aaron saw it, he built an altar before it.." Was this an altar of unhewn stones as YHWH had ordained or was it an altar similar to the Egyptian ones for the bull god? Aaron proclaims that "tomorrow is a feast to YHWH". Here syncretism already creeps into true religion ordained by God Himself. And so it has continued through history. How sad.
Verses 5-6 describe their worship and feasting. Rose up early. Offered a burnt and peace offerings. Sat down to eat and drink. Rose up to play. What kind of play was this? Did they become drunk? And did this "play" involve occultic practices or sexual lewdness. Was it respectful or raunchy? These people did not even bat an eye at what this "worship and feasting" entailed. They, having been concerned about Moses being on the Mount so long, now had no more concern for him. They may have thought they were now free of him and his strictness and insistence on doing right before YHWH. Seems like they traded both Moses and YHWH in for a newer, 'seeker-friendly" model!
Meanwhile on the Mount, YHWH tells Moses to go down to the people, telling them what they had done. YHWH calls MOSES' people stiff-necked and tells Moses to stand aside.....
But, as it were, the people were eager to take off these earrings and give them to Aaron. Seeing how willing they were to give something of universal value for the sake of their god, makes me wonder about the sacrifices of Abel and Cain. Abel's sacrifice was accepted but Cain's was not. Well, this offering of their earrings was not acceptable even though costly. God is not impressed with things man treasures. He wants true worship that honors Him and does not substitute anything for Himself. No 'stand=ins" for Him!
Amazingly, Moses had preached the Words of God concerning the commandments. The Decalogue was delivered orally to the people before the people agreed to follow God and His commands. This is what they assented to do. They clearly knew that they were not to:
First of all, worship any other god but YHWH.
And Second of all, never create an image of any kind to represent YHWH.
So, whatever the golden calf represented broke one of these paramount commandments. The top of the list, so to speak. WOW!
Did they not fear Him? Did they think that they could just exchange YHWH for a more acceptable and "tame" god? Did they really think that YHWH would cause His Presence to dwell within or upon this golden calf or that a different god could do this?
I don't think we can ever really know what the Israelites and Aaron were really intending here, but we can know that what ever their intents, these were gravely sinful.
Creating this golden calf took some time and skill. The gold needed to be melted down and a cast of some time needed to be made. This shows that there was plenty of time for these people and Aaron to reverse course under the conviction of their sin. Aaron did the fine tuning on the calf, using tools to refine the features of the image. They took great care to form this idol.
YHWH, of course, knows all things and He knew their intentions and also what was going on in the camp while with Moses on the Mount. Moses was unknowing
It is noteworthy to consider why the Israelites had gold earrings in their ears. Were these earrings that were punched through their ears so as to not be removable or were they earrings that could be taken on and off easily? Were they earrings that were given to them by Egyptians as they were leaving Egypt or were they worn by them in Egypt as a custom of Egypt or from Canaan? Or, perhaps, were put in their ears by their Egyptian masters as a sign that they were slaves to the Pharaoh?
Aaron tells them to "break them off" in the KJV. Other versions say that Aaron says to "take they off." If these earrings were a sign of slavery, Aaron may have been indicating to the Israelites that they were to take off what represented enslavement to Egypt and their idolatry and instead worship YHWH-though an image of Him-to show their freedom won for them by YHWH.
If the earrings were worn as an Egyptian custom, Aaron may have wanted the Israelites to remove what was of Egypt to worship YHWH without defilement by Egyptian things. If the earrings were a custom of the middle east and not Egypt, then perhaps Aaron was asking them to take them off to exchange this custom for the worship of this YHWH who delivered them in such mighty ways. Everything they knew of God in the past was now changed. So. perhaps Aaron was thinking along those lines. We cannot know that Aaron's intent was to bring the people into idolatry or to have the people divest themselves of past worship symbols (which the earrings may have represented) and now have this new symbol of YHWH, their Deliverer.
Whatever Aaron intended when the people came to him asking for him to make a sacred image for them, it is peculiar that he made an image of a created thing. He could have made a pedestal of some sort to offer incense, or some altar for a sacrifice, but not a depiction of YHWH or any other god.
Maybe Aaron thought that the people would not want to give up their valuable gold jewelry.
This is such a sad chapter. Just before Moses went up to the mountain again, the Israelites had covenanted with YHWH that they would not worship any other gods but him. They promised to obey all that He commanded.
But now, Moses was up on the mountain within the cloud of glory with its thundering and lightnings. They Israelites spoke to each other about this, and it did not take too long for them to decide that Moses must have been consumed on the mountain by YHWH. They looked to Moses as their deliverer, not YHWH. They feared YHWH. He was a God that they shrunk back from, being fearsome and definitely exercising authority and power to reach right down into their very hearts. So now what will they do?
How or who decided on the plan to make an image of "YHWH". Although I do not think they really wanted this image to represent how they had experienced YHWH-rather, they wanted a much 'tamer" god to worship-like the ones of they knew in Egypt. In Egypt there were several cattle gods. The bull image was considered a reference to the Supreme sun God, thus being depicted with a sun between his horns. The cow image was a representation of a female deity, Hathor, who gave birth to the sun god. She was the representation of all that was good about femaleness-motherhood and fertility. There was a calf-bull god in the surrounding areas named Hadid who was the storm god.
I think it is difficult to really know what was intended by Aaron making a calf as an image of worship. Was it intended to be like Hadid, the storm god, since YHWH's appearance on the mountain was accompanied with storm-like manifestations? Was it intended to represent YHWH or was it an exchange of YHWH for a familiar god from Egypt, Hathor or the Apis bull?
I guess I will have to research more on this.
Whatever Aaron was thinking, the people had asked him to make a god for them to worship. He chose to make a calf. It would seem that Aaron of all people would have put a stop to it!
You asked,
Why can't both verses be true?
I do believe both verses are true.
I appreciate very much your input.
I am struggling to understand,
Are you saying we are saved by both works and grace?
I did say I do believe we are saved by both.
But as far as Bible contradictions, they do exist.
And to say Paul and James contradict would not be an issue.
The Bible contradicts itself quite often.
It is not uncommon.
Nevertheless, it does not shake my faith in the Bible.
For example,
Matthew records Christ came through David's son Solomon ( Matthew 1:6)
But Luke records Christ came through David's son Nathan ( Luke 3:31)
Exodus 33:20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.
Exodus 33:11 And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend.
And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah. ( 2 Samuel 24:1)
And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel. ( 1 Chronicles 21:1)
Who provoked David, God or Satan?
Is Judah or Dan are a lion's whelp?
And of Dan he said, Dan is a lion's whelp: he shall leap from Bashan. ( Deuteronomy 33:22)
Judah is a lion's whelp: from the prey, my son, thou art gone up: he stooped down, he couched as a lion, and as an old lion; who shall rouse him up? ( Genesis 49:9)
And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people. ( Exodus 32:14)
And also the Strength of Israel will not lie nor repent: for he is not a man, that he should repent. ( 1 Samuel 15:9)
The fruit was of the "tree of the knowledge of good & evil"
Genesis 2:9 " And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food, the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil"
Genesis 2:15-17, Genesis 3:22
It is symbolic, spiritual & seemingly literal. If it were an apple tree, or fig I believe it would have said. See Matthew 21:19, Genesis 1:11,
Knowledge of good and evil, yet GOD's Word says the things of evil, we shouldn't learn. Genesis 6:5, Genesis 48:16, Exodus 32:2, Numbers 13 -14, Deuteronomy 1:39, (in context Deuteronomy 1:20-40 ) Hebrews 10:22, James 1:13-27,
Romans 16:19-20
James 1:5,
Hopefully these are all helpful
Everything is God's Will, period. It's God's will to give man freewill. God is big and powerful enough to do this, even if people can't understand it and still want to deny it. God also is big and powerful enough to change His mind and let things play out, as the Bible says in Exodus 32:14, Genesis 18:32, and over a dozen other examples.
Maybe you believe you are a puppet or marionette 100% controlled by God. Did God force you to write this post beyond your will? Does God force you to eat at certain foods you dislike or do things you don't want to do throughout the day? Does he force you to take showers or use restrooms at random times when you don't want to? Are you a prisoner? If so, does this also mean you are perfect just like Jesus and don't sin? Have you ever lied to someone in your lifetime? If so, was that God forcing you to sin or was it 100% you? God doesn't cause anyone to sin ever.
None of the above applies to me as God blessed me with 100% freewill and I try very hard to use that for good and to serve the Lord. But like Paul who faced huge temptation and struggled, I wrestle with these daily choices and decisions and sometimes I make mistakes but repent and try hard to get back on track. Paul said to run the race, not to ignore the race and sit on the couch. Christianity is an active faith, not passive. Nearly every challenge in the Bible is for us to take action and make choices. Many are warnings about choosing good instead of evil.
Freewill that God gives man:
Psalms 119:108
Joshua 24:15
Philippians 1:22
Joshua 24:14-15
Matthew 25:25-30 - Jesus's parable of talents God condemned the lazy servant who choose poorly through fear. The Bible is filled with challenges of choosing to follow God instead of choosing to follow the world.
I find it unusual that you don't believe you have any freewill to make any decisions and are merely a puppet? Is that true? Have you prayed about this? God bless.
I remembered how Moses intercedede for all the Israelites that GOD was going to destroy & they are a nation today. Exodus 32:9-14,
Psalms 122:6, John 17, Ezekiel 22:23-31, John 14:14, John 16:24,
Hopefully these are helpful too, even though this is on the other spectrum of this discussion, yet fit within question I hope
Matthew 10:34, Romans 8:38-39, Ecclesiastes 3:1-11,
Genesis 3:24, 1Chronicles 21, 1Chronicles 24:16, Exodus 32:27, read in context Exodus 32, Leviticus 26, Numbers 22, Deuteronomy 13:15, Deuteronomy 20:13, Deuteronomy 32, Jeremiah 50:35-37, Amos 1:11, Amos 9:4-15,
Joshua 5:10-15 continues Joshua 6,
1Samuel 15,
2Kings 6, note 2Kings 6:22, 2Chronicles 23:21, Nehemiah 4, Esther 9, Jeremiah 43:11, Hosea 2:18, Micah 4:3,
Hope these encourage
"Then he took the calf which they had made, burned it int he fire, and ground it to a powder; and he scattered it on the water and he made the children of Israel drink it."
Interesting how the Israelites had to literally consume the golden calf idol they had demanded Aaron to make and had given him the gold to create it.
In this way they were made to "own" their idolatry and this action of drinking the water with the ground powder of the idol mixed in demonstrates that sin comes from within us and is manifested outwardly.
6 O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the Lord. Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel.
7 At what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy it;
8 If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them.
9 And at what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it;
10 If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them.
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Ok, if you were a very bad anti-Christ spirit, would you add and delete things from the most used Bible in the world? Of course. You could be richer selling you're own version or brand.
Let us now memorize these next scriptures: REVELATION 22:18-21, Exodus 32:33, Deuteronomy 4:2 and 12:32
( good advise Deuteronomy 13:1-5 ), Gal. 1:8-9
I only buy Bibles that are published by THOMAS NELSON of Nashville.
You can find good Bibles on ABEbooks dot com. Read the description. You may want to upgrade to a KJV Bible Reference Bible. Preferably with center of each page, reference columns.
Numbers 20:7-12, is a portion of the whole story & reason.
Let's look at the bigger picture:
Numbers 20:12, please note it says "Because you believed me not, to sanctify me in the eyes of the children of Israel, therefore._._" , Please read Exodus, Moses' doubts: Exodus 3:11,13, Exodus 4:1,3,10,14, Exodus 4:24-26, Exodus 5:22, Exodus 6:12, Exodus 6:30, Exodus 14:11-15, Exodus 16:2-28, Exodus 17:2-7, Exodus 32:11-19,30,31,32,33, Exodus 33:1-3, Numbers 11:1-15, mercy ( Numbers 11:16-20,) Numbers 11:21-23, * Numbers 13, Numbers 13:30,31,32, * Numbers 14, very significant I believe, when they were supposed to take the promised land please read Numbers chapters 13 & 14, & notice: Numbers 13:30, Numbers 14:24, Numbers 14:22-23,
Psalms 95:6-11, note Psalms 95:10-11,
Hebrews 3:5-19, Luke 13:24, Mark 10:15,
Hopefully this is helpful
I felt a warning also about being like Hezekiah. In 2 Kings 18:16 , Hezekiah "cut off the gold from the doors of the temple of the LORD, and from the pillars._.' & gave it to the king of Assyira" I asked myself was it to save the people from war? Was it fear? Either way all that sacrifice & peace offering didn't stop the evil nor the attacks. 2 Kings 18:17-32, they even used that against Hezekiah when they mocked. 2 Kings 18:22, 2 Kings 18:29-30, 2 Chronicle 32, Isaiah 36:7-22,
Then Hezekiah came to Isaiah 2 Kings 19:1-5, & sought-after the LORD 2Kings 19:14-16,
Another warning I felt 2 Kings 20:12-18,
& 2Kings 20:19, he seemed unconcerned about the bad consequences Hezekiah himself had caused to his own offspring. 2 Chronicles 32:25-26, 2 Chronicles 32:27,
Hopefully these speak deeper to you as they did me. GOD help us * not give what is HOLY & sanctified to GOD over to enemies, * that we won't cause bad consequences to future generations, * that we will care about future generations & not life ourselves too highly with treasure. Remember Isaiah 1:23, Exodus 32:8, Deuteronomy 16:19,
Except receive the Gifts of GOD: 1 Corinthians 12, & 13
Hopefully this is welcome insight from my study.
Yes, I pray we go to the LORD 1st!!