And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle. ( Exodus 33:11).
Having wiped out my most recent attempt at this post TWICE now (aargh) I'll give it one final "hail Mary" as it were.
I suppose once I've committed the entire Bible to memory I'll stop pushing the wrong button to find verses online that knocks me out.
Anyway; I started posting today as I saw a couple individuals concerned about their salvation and it seemed to be a topic needing to be addressed. Earlier I stated that POST salvation that there is indeed a "two way" communication between a believer and the Lord; as it were in prayer. Proverbs 4:18 says But the path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day. Thus; if we know the Lord we learn to recognize our own flaws with mental processes and emotional issues as well as physical desires that all can lead us to sin. I consider doctrines of election as important for many reasons not the least being that God never changes and His covenants relate to that.
Hebrews 8:10 declares "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:"
As a vessel fit for His purposes we are not our own as 1 Corinthians 6:20 states we were "bought with a price." Of course all souls are mine as Esekiel 18:4 states. There are two polar opposites we want to avoid; first fear and cowardice which is warned about in Revelation 22 as something that brings people to hell; but also being presumptuous in for instance; claiming that we no longer sin as believers.
God gives us courage; as He did for Peter after Christ's Ascencion. Dying to self brings true joy! It comes from God not our own hand!
It appears that there were at least 14 prayers of Moses; which I think I can safely say shows his prayers were more frequent and a more intimate relationship with the Lord than anyone besides David and of course Christ Himself; except perhaps John the Baptist. Exodus 33:11 speaks of the uniqueness of Moses who spoke face to face with the Lord and even got to view him from afar (his back quarters) in Exodus 33:20-23. We do well to "camp out" on these prayers to learn something about humility as we see was part of Moses' character; as well as his two faults listed in scripture.
Going back into history a bit; we can see through the prayers for offspring of Abraham and Sarah; and that of a wife for Isaac that the entire Biblical lineage as well as the foundation of the patriarchs who constituted the beginnings of the nation of Israel to come much later were established. We go further to Joseph who oddly enough from what I can see doesn't have any prayers listed although certainly lived a faithful existence. With Abraham we have promises of freedom of captivity after 400 years ( Genesis 15:13) which was finally coming to fruition with Moses being God's chosen vessel for this undertaking. Now we had an entire nation of Jews along with a multitude of others along with untold women and children exiting Egypt and basically wandering in the desert; punished by God so that only Joshua and Caleb remained of the original generation to be accompanied by the next generation. It is noteable that Moses' prayer or plea to God to enter the Promised Land was rejected; although He was allowed to view it from afar. ( Deut. 32:52). This was due to his sin at Meribeh ( Numbers 20:13-15). Moses only had one other sin listed; that of killing the Egyptian back before his own 40 years of exile and hiding in Exodus 2:12.
Themes of prayer for a corporate body in Exodus remind us of prayers needed for the church at large. We also need leaders today like this
May we learn to love and praise the LORD. May we forget not of HIS forgiveness of our sin and the power of HIS presence in our lives. It is most unfortunate for us to only really want and desire what we had after we have lost it. Colossians 3:1
Let us stay close to the "ROCK" of our salvation, and the wisdom of our GOD through our diligent study and application of HIS word. Let us walk in the LORD and not fall to the lust of this world. Galatians 5:16
GOD bless everyone as we enter into this new year 2024!
January 1, 2024
The Lord to shine HIS face on all who love HIM; and bless us gloriously.
When considering the return of Christ from our perspective we look forward to the conquering King at His second coming (which in reality is at least His third appearance since He ascended from the grave as a sort of part b to His first appearing in the form of the Son of Man; and the Second Coming is split into the Rapture when He appears in the air and when He physically returns at Armaggedon being a sort of "fourth" coming).
Of course this term doesn't appear in scripture; nor does the Word "trinity". Rapture is what Harpazo means after translation to the term "rapturo" so it isn't in our English texts. In a broader context; Christ appeared in the Old Testament many times (known as a Christophene if it is spelled right). It would seem that the Preincarnate Christ would be there all times; in fact when the Lord communed with man; as no man can see God and live ( Exodus 33:20). The same could be said for Christ in all His glory; John fell at His feet as though dead in his encounter in Revelation ( Rev. 1:17-18).
It is truly profound to consider how Christ was reduced to the microscopic size of a human fetus; just as much as a virgin birth. Surely in that state the angels were protecting him; being part of the Godhead wasn't part of His earthly ministry ( Philippians 2:7) as He had to live as a substitute for us; but without sin as well as dying as our atonement as the perfect sacrifice. The fact that Christ died for His enemies is remarkable. How He took on our sins is incomprehensible as well; but this was God's plan from before the foundation of the earth.
May us all remember the verse Matthew 21:44 in regard to falling on Christ. When He returns He will fall on His enemies and crush all the empires of this world as foretold in Daniel 2:45. Let us fall down in worship and adoration today.
There is no contradiction, we see in Exodus 33:20-23 God told Moses he cannot see my face and no man can see me and live, so God showed Moses His backside, that is the closest any person has come to seeing God. Matt. 5:8 Jesus says those pure in heart meaning those who are amongst the saints/saved will see God. Job knew this as he says in Job 19:26, his glorified flesh/body.
We have our confirmation in Revelation 22:3-4 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: 4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.
We will see God's face and the Lamb/Jesus for they will be the light and the temple of the new earth and the new Jerusalem, Revelation 21:22-23.
Jesus was subject unto God his Father like anybody else
Galatians 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,.."
God was not Superman to come as a human being he sent his Son Jesus John 3:16. If Jesus was God he sure is the weakest one I ever read as Jesus can do nothing by himself without the spirit of God his Father in him. John 5:30
John 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
No man can see God's face at anytime as people will die. Moses can never see God's face and neither can we, we only have the Son of God as an example who God his Father really is. Jesus preached God is a spirit John 4:24. Jesus never said that he was God in the whatever and if so nobody would be able to see his face.
John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
Exodus 33:20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.
21 And the LORD said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock:
22 And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by:
23 And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.
Jesus fulfilled the law, which means he died and did everything that was written of him to do. The testimony of two m((en)) is true John 8:7 and not one m((an)). God was not Superman to become flesh, it was his Son as all the prophets of old knew that God had a son.
Daniel 3:25 He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.
God never left his throne he sent his Son Jesus and not himself Romans 8:3.
And in nothing terrified by your adversaries: which is to them an evident token of perdition, but to you of salvation, and that of God. (PHillipians 1:28)."
And as soon as we had heard these things, our hearts did melt, neither did there remain any more courage in any man, because of you: for the LORD your God, he is God in heaven above, and in earth beneath. ( Joshua 2:11).
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom ( Proverbs 9:10). Continuing with some ideas from my previous post; it seems that when it comes to supposed testimonies of hell; the fear of the Lord and a sense of it being His wrath as a great part of the terror is lost in accounts of suffering. The same thing makes us even more suspect with those testimonies about heaven; even Moses who knew God unlike any other man at the time ( Exodus 33:11) and spoke to Him as a friend still had fear when He appeared in all His glory ( Deut. 9:19). WE ALL SHOULD TAKE THIS ADMONITION SERIOUSLY as to fear and AWE of Him no matter how long we have been believers (sorry but I felt caps were needed here).
The assurance of salvation and the evident blessings being present on someone brings meaning to the first quote from Philippians; and the fact that we will return with Him ( Rev. 19:14) will strike fear in those whose eyes are now opened;
along with the fear of judgment to come.
The concept of our enemies also needs to be addressed along with our own enmity toward God that we now have reconciled.
Romans 11:28 shows how the unbeliving Jews were enemies in one sense; yet Paul wished that he himself could be accursed to save them ( Romans 9:3). We are to love our enemies; but not fraternize to gain reputation as the world does; for what is honorable among men is an abomination to God ( Luke 16:15 also could be "highly esteemed"). We should have no part fellowshipping with those who preach a false Gospel; and in no uncertain terms testify to the peril the unsaved is in apart from repentance.
Lot's wife never demonstrated saving faith from what scripture would indicate; at the very least desiring more to turn back to see the fate of the city doomed for destruction rather than to escape. "Righteous Lot" ( 2 Peter 2:7-8) was vexed every day; and clearly quite compromised in his dealings when he offered his daughters to the men who were trying to break down his door to commit abominations. No mention of his wife is in the scriptures; as was with Sarah; for instance in Hebrews 11.
Today in church it was discussed how Abraham was said to be the only one who was a "friend" of God ( James 2:23). Exodus 33:11 states the same of Moses as well so technically my Pastor erred. My point here I may expound on later; namely the fact that God truly spoke in a different manner to them than many others in the Bible. The friendship; in other words went both ways. The discussion also came up today in Sunday school on how He is both Master and friend. This is a mystery in itself; and forces us beyond stereotypical cultural viewpoints toward such a relationship. As for now; I will just state that Lot had to be "shoved" out of his town literally; and the angels had to put up with his ridiculous bantering about going to the nearby little town; which was promptly abandoned once Lot saw what happened and hid in the mountains. Abraham and Moses both had slow starts and their own issues; but were able to have close fellowship with the Lord as we see from Genesis 18:17 with Abraham and Exodus 32:30 where Moses acted to intercede to prevent God from destroying all of Israel. That scene is another discussion as to its theological implications.
We all should strive to be as the saints in the "hall of fame" in Hebrews 11; not stubborn like Jonah as an ox. Nonetheless these all are true believers. We CANNOT claim God's promises with an imaginary Christ or on other terms than scripture dictates and expect it to be true.
When he said I'll let you see my back parts, some of us need to see God back parts, I see God back parts sick laying in the hospital bed, the miracle that he working with my life right now, thank you God for letting me see your back parts, and know that your Holy Spirit is with me! I'm going to rest in You and trust you through it all in Jesus name, and it is so!
Revelation 11:1, Revelation 3:7-13, The Church of Philadelphia is interestingly encouraging to me. Philadelphia as being the Miraculous place of USA Declaration of Independence, Liberty Bell, US Mint (still printing IN GOD WE TRUST ) the faith filled prayers, sacrifice, devotion to GOD & freedom to worship GOD, documents the give & gave GOD glory, honor & reverence, started in Philadelphia USA spreading into most US State Constitutions including California & even unto many countries constitutions. In the modern age.
Notice; it says "to the angel of the church" I'm assuming it's because it's not to the people as a whole. Exodus 33:16, 1Thessalonians 5:22,
Your first question; is there anywhere in the heavens or the earth that God cannot be, Psalm 139:7-10Proverbs 15:3Jeremiah 23:23-24Hebrews 4:13Isaiah 6:3. But is the universe, the earth, and everything on the earth a manifestation of God? NO that is Pantheism and is forbidden in the Bible as idol worship, if everything is God it can be worshiped.
His dwelling place is in heaven that is above heaven (universe) and earth, beyond and outside of the physical universe, 1 Kings 8:301 Kings 8:432 Chr. 20:6Psalm 11:4Daniel 2:28Matt. 5:16Matt. 6:9. God gave His only begotten Son to die for us, John 3:16 God by the Holy Spirit can dwell in us if we accept Jesus as our savior we are cleansed by His blood, Romans 8:9-111 Cor. 3:16
God can see everything and take action anywhere, Prov. 15:3Heb. 4:13 but God is everywhere at once? He is in that he is aware of everything in the physical universe both past, present, and future, and he can turn his attention to anyone or anything at any time.
Has anyone seen God? Moses came the closest, God showed him His backside, Exodus 33:12-23. No man in the flesh can see God's face and live, John 1:18John 4:121 Tim. 6:16. We will see His face after the resurrection in our immortal and incorruptible body, Rev 22:4.
How can one Know that God exists? The Bible: He has revealed things to us, and the evidence is convincing if anyone is willing to consider the evidence. History also confirms many things that were prophesied in the Bible long before they happened. The word of God is the truth, and the Holy Spirit will reveal it to those with an open mind and open heart who honestly want the truth.
This is my understanding in love may it help, search and pray for yours.
When we look at the book of Ezekiel; we see the prophet being spoken to as "son of man". (chapter 12; verse 12). Christ's presence is with capital letters In Daniel; He was called the "Son of Man" and God the Father the "Ancient of Days.". ( Dan. 7:9-14). His presence in someone like Jacob was seen in that He wrestled with God and prevailed. He asked for a blessing; recognizing the divinity of God and was given i ( Gen. 32:29). We also see examples such as with Abraham where the remaining visitor was clearly God or Abraham wouldn't have requested an answer about how many righteous people would need to remain in Sodom for God to preserve the city. ( Gen. 18:16-33). The distinction between the preincarnate Christ and the other 2 angels rests in that angels; messengers of God are faithful in only representing God (or Christ in the Godhead). Their actions are direct orders from the Lord.
We see the impartiality of God in the Angel of Gideon when he stated that he was "on the Lord's side" in Judges chapter 5. It wasn't revealed fully until chapter 6; verse 22. The "Angel" of God that people were instructed to follow also signified God because of the capital letter as well as the fact that disobedience would result in Divine punishment. There was surely a Saviour promised in the O.T.; and Genesis mentioned man being created in "our likeness". The distinction of the Godhead could only be stated in the fact that God the Father never appears to have a definite appearance; as the N.T. states no one has "seen God." ( John 1:18). No one can "see God and live" ( Exodus 33:20) and Moses could only see the back parts again probably of the preincarnate Christ.
It was in the visions and dreams (such as with Daniel) such as the rock that destroyed the rest of the kingdoms of the earth where Christ's glory is revealed. ( Dan. 2:31-36).
Moses is asking to see God completely unveiled, to see God in His essential Being, without outward manifestation, but to see Him as He truly is. Moses was bold after YHWH had said that he had found grace in His sight and He knew Moses by name.
YHWH did not grant Moses' request fully, for no man can see God in His true essence (to see His face) and live, for He is so absolutely holy and majestic that we are unable to bear the experience. He lives in inapproachable light. YHWH modifies Moses' request and says that He will have his Goodness pass before him and will proclaim the name of the LORD before Moses. He then says, "I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion." This is an interesting statement. It doesn't simply say that YHWH will show grace and compassion to Moses. But is rather a statement of His essential nature. Like the name I AM WHO I AM, this statement tells of Who YHWH is essentially concerning His grace and compassion. No one can contest it nor thwart it. YHWH places Moses in a cleft of a rock and covers Moses' eyes with His hand as He walks by and releases His hand so Moses will see the backside of Himself. This must be figuratively speaking as God is Spirit and therefore does not have a body like humans do. It must be that to see God in "full frontal view" would be to see Him in His transcendency, which no man can view, but to see His backside would be to see Him in a way that a human can comprehend and survive the glory of seeing His Being in the most clear and true way that is possible for man to bear.
Jesus is the perfect revelation of God. In Him we are able to see the fullness of the Godhead and still survive. He, being fully human and fully God, is the perfect Mediator between the Father and mankind. It is Jesus we will see in heaven. And we will be so satisfied with seeing Him face to face. We will realize how seeing Jesus is also seeing the Father ( Jn 14:9-11)
YHWH spoke with Moses as with a friend. How wonderful to know oneself as a friend of God! Moses was not God's enemy, but one with whom YHWH was pleased and one whom YHWH chose to interact with. It was not Moses' doing. It was YHWH who showed up when Moses went to the tent waiting for Him. Do we have a place set aside for meeting with God? Do we wait there in anticipation and faith that He will show up?
The text says that Moses would go back among the people in the camp, but Joshua remained in this tent of meeting, not departing from it. What lessons Joshua must have learned from dwelling in the place where YHWH would meet with Moses.
Moses then inquires of YHWH concerning who He will send with Moses to lead these people. Moses then recalls what YHWH had said to him, "I know you by name, and you have also found grace in my sight." So wonderful that God knows us by name and has chosen to place us in His grace. Moses then asks YHWH to show him His way in order to know Him and to be given grace. He also asks YHWH to consider the Israelite nation to be His people. Here Moses not only prays for himself to remain with YHWH and YHWH with him, but also intercedes for the nation, that YHWH would do the same for them.
YHWH answers, "My Presence will go with you, and I will give you rest." Moses request was answered with the assurance that YHWH will accompany not only Moses, but the nation as well by His Presence. (What is His Presence here, I wonder?) YHWH also promised to give rest to Moses. Does this mean that Moses' task of leading these people to the Promised Land will end once they arrive or is it speaking of his death? Here, rest is spoken of as a good thing to receive.
In the next section of this chapter we have the account of Moses asking YHWH to show him His glory. What a bold request! Moses had met with YHWH on the mountain and in the tent of meeting visible manifestations of YHWH's Presence. Yet, to Moses, he wanted even more!
This morning I continue in this chapter. There is a change of focus in the chapter at this point. It begins by speaking of Moses moving the his tent of meeting (tabernacle) outside of the camp. Whereas before, Moses' tent was within the camp, this move graphically shows how YHWH had separated Himself from dwelling within the midst of the people to dwelling outside, still near, but not within. The difference here is very significant. YHWH did not leave the Israelites, but by meeting with Moses outside the camp, He spared them from being consumed by His just punishment for their gross sin of idolatry. This shows (also graphically) how sin separates us from God. Interesting, the purpose for the separation in this chapter is given as to prevent God from consuming them. This is an act of grace on God's part. I have always thought of the separation from God being because He cannot dwell with sinfulness. However, this chapter puts a new viewpoint on this separation that I had not realized before. Even though YHWH was outside of the camp, He is always omnipresent, therefore, always near enough for us to call upon Him.
The people would go to Moses' tent of meeting (Tabernacle) to seek YHWH. Whenever Moses went out to the tabernacle (his tent), all of the people rose and stood at the door of their tents and watched Moses until he had entered this tabernacle. Whereas before Moses would go up Mt. Sinai to meet with YHWH, now YHWH meet with Moses at his tent, descending with the cloudy pillar, positioning before the door of the tent. In this way, YHWH spoke with Moses. When this happened, all the people rose and worshipped YHWH, each at their own tent doorway. What a beautiful depiction of worship being done by the Israelites without any false image, but because God's Presence was evident in the pillar of clouds at the door of Moses' tent. They would drop all that they were doing and stand in honor of YHWH and worship Him. Worship was simple here.
The people were deeply dismayed that YHWH was not going to "tabernacle" among them on this journey. They may have thought that the God who delivered them from slavery in Egypt would be "afar off" now because of their idolatry. How little they understood of YHWH at this time. The Angel would be YHWH's Representative among the people, the Mediator between His sinful people and Himself. Here we may have a statement concerning the role of the Son of God, pre-incarnate. He is eternally the Mediator between God and Man. Otherwise, there would be no interactions between the Father and humanity other than judgment. But we do not know for sure if this Angel was, indeed, the Son of God.
The sinfulness of these people who had consecrated themselves to YHWH required a "go-between". Let us remind ourselves how serious sin is to God. We cannot approach Him without a Mediator, and that Mediator is only Jesus. YHWH stepped out of the people He had saved as an act of mercy and grace to prevent them being consumed by Him.
It says that the people mourned and did not put on their ornaments, as YHWH had instructed them to do, thus showing repentance. I do not know what these ornaments were; perhaps jewelry from the Egyptians. These ornaments would remind them of their sin of idolatry because the calf was made of such ornamentation. They stripped themselves of any such self-adornment. They instead took the dress of one who is penitent, remorseful, in mourning. There, at Mt. Sinai, otherwise known as Horeb, where the Decalogue was given, and the people were soon rebellious against it, they stripped themselves of what was valuable to them in the carnal way, and then turned from wearing them again. They did not put these ornaments back on.
We would be wise to do likewise. when we confess our sin to Jesus, we are to do so with repentance, with the intent of not returning to these sins, divesting ourselves of all that entangles us in sin, avoiding such snares.
God promised to drive out all of the inhabitants of the Promised Land for the Israelites. It would be HIs working. The Israelites would have to trust Him, believe Him, and not try to do it themselves apart from Him. We must do the same. I am thankful we have the Holy Spirit dwelling in us to be the one who defeats our enemies who oppose God and us, His precious possession.
YHWH said that the land was flowing with milk and honey. There are 20+ Scriptures that use this phrase for the Promised Land. I have always wondered what this phrase actually means. I did a quick inquiry on line and found some good points to mention.
1. The Land was filled with grasslands and vegetation to sustain their livestock, so the females would be calving and giving milk.
2. The Land was able to sustain many colonies of bees, which require vegetation for nectar and in turn, the bees pollinate the vegetation. so there was good symbiosis in the land among the plants and animals abiding there.
3. The Land had nutrient rich soil (re: the cluster of grapes that was so large that two men were needed to carry it). the soil would yield bumper crops of food.
4, Being a coastal region, the Marine climate from the Mediterranean would bring ample rain to provide water to drink and to grow food.
5. In this time, the Land of Promise was most likely less desolate that today. It was well forested, which would require more rain then there is today.
6. The reference to milk indicates that the land was suitable for farming and raising livestock to sustain the people's food needs.
7. The reference to honey indicates that the land would provide beyond mere sustenance, but much delight and ease of living.
These thoughts may help us understand the phrase better. I don't believe that the Scriptures ever defines this phrase.
YHWH says that He will not go among the people on their journey, lest he consume them for being a stiff-necked people. The Angel would go with them.
In this chapter we read what comes after the incident of the golden calf where we learned that sin, especially idolatry requires that God bring judgment upon the sinners. It is the most serious thing in all of creation because if God acted on His righteous judgment, humanity would have ended with Adam and Eve's sin in the Garden of Eden. They thought they would be like God and know how to direct their own life. We see in Exodus chapter 32 how the Israelites thought they could direct their own ways, too, and made an object that they thought could truly represent YHWH or even BE Him. How little did they know YHWH! We can fall into this same mindset if we do not increase our knowledge of God in Christ. We should endeavor to know Who God is from what He has revealed to us in His Word, in history, and especially in Jesus. Idolatry flourishes when true knowledge of God is limited. If one is not reconciled to God through Christ and not in the Word to learn of Him, one will have an inaccurate (and most often, too human-like) view of Who He is. We begin to think that He is altogether like us because we are made in His image. But such an image of Him, even in our thoughts, is idolatry.
Yet we also learned in Ch. 32 that God accepted the intercession of Moses because He already had accepted the sacrifice of Jesus to atone for sin before the foundation of the world) and in doing so, showed mercy to this nation He brought out of Egypt.
In Chapter 33, YHWH tells Moses to get up and move on into the way God directs them. YHWH says that they will go to the land He promised to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Despite the resistance and stubbornness of these people, YHWH was still going to fulfill his promise to these patriarchs. He will always be true and faithful to what He promised. His will will be done!
He also promised to send His Angel to go before them and drive out the peoples between their location at Sinai and Canaan.
You claim that Exodus 33:11 and Exodus 33:20 is a contradiction.
Exodus 33:9-20. And it came to pass, as Moses entered into the tabernacle, the CLOUDY PILLAR DESCENDED, AND STOOD AT THE DOOR OF THE TABERNACLE, AND THE LORD TALKED WITH MOSES.
Paul I believe what is mentioned here is the Lord spoke to Moses "DIRECTLY" as a man speaks to his friend. He spoke to him from the cloudy pillar. Moses never saw his face. They interact as friends as Abraham interacted with the Lords angel in Genesis 18.
I believe the emphasis in verse 11 is on the Lord spoke to Moses as a friend and directly.
The children of Israel also saw the Cloudy pillar at the door as they did in Exodus 19:18 and Exodus 20:18-19. but they didn't speak to the Lord as Moses did.
AND ALL THE PEOPLE SAW THE CLOUDY PILLAR STAND AT THE TABERNACLE DOOR: and all the people rose up and worshipped, every man in his tent door.
And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle.
Verses 17-20. And the LORD said unto Moses, I will do this thing also that thou hast spoken: for thou hast found grace in my sight, and I know thee by name.
And he said, I beseech thee, shew me thy glory.
And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy.
And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.
Are you saying we are saved by both works and grace?
I did say I do believe we are saved by both.
But as far as Bible contradictions, they do exist.
And to say Paul and James contradict would not be an issue.
The Bible contradicts itself quite often.
It is not uncommon.
Nevertheless, it does not shake my faith in the Bible.
For example,
Matthew records Christ came through David's son Solomon ( Matthew 1:6)
But Luke records Christ came through David's son Nathan ( Luke 3:31)
Exodus 33:20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.
Exodus 33:11 And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend.
And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah. ( 2 Samuel 24:1)
And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel. ( 1 Chronicles 21:1)
Who provoked David, God or Satan?
Is Judah or Dan are a lion's whelp?
And of Dan he said, Dan is a lion's whelp: he shall leap from Bashan. ( Deuteronomy 33:22)
Judah is a lion's whelp: from the prey, my son, thou art gone up: he stooped down, he couched as a lion, and as an old lion; who shall rouse him up? ( Genesis 49:9)
And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people. ( Exodus 32:14)
And also the Strength of Israel will not lie nor repent: for he is not a man, that he should repent. ( 1 Samuel 15:9)
Guess no one has attempted to answer you yet-so I will say the easiest answer is BOTH. In addition to this; of course we have the Holy Spirit as part of the Godhead. The easiest way; I suppose to look at it is that the Godhead (Elohim as mentioned in Genesis 1) consists of all 3 members of the Trinity. There is perfect unity; but different functions for each member. Jesus was referred to as my Lord and my God in John 20:28 by "doubting" Thomas after viewing His wounds after the Resurrection. Clearly; God the Father had to remain untouched by sin so that the universe could be held together; for sin had to bring death to the Son as predetermined by the Father ( Isaiah 53:10). Christ had conversations with and prayed to the Father; so clearly this is an eternal past; present and future state with the exception of that brief moment at Calvary.
It seems that the Holy Spirit is misunderstood for His main role bringing conviction of sin righteousness and judgment to come ( John 16:8). There is no scripture where the "helper" ( John 14:26) is instructed to be worshipped. Instead; it strengthens the believer; as a small reflection of Christ who possessed the Spirit "without limit" or measure ( John 3:34).
Believers have quibbled as to verses that mention the Trinity and others only mentioning baptism in the name of Christ. We also need to understand the Christophenes or preincarnate appearances of Christ. No one has seen the Father according to Christ; surely the full glory of God would kill a man ( John 1:18; Exodus 33:18-20). The Spirit has only been described in a visible manifestation or accompanying sign once; in Acts at Pentecost. Jesus makes it clear that when the Comforter (i.e. Spirit) comes that WE shall dwell with him ( John 14:23). He is to ask the Father and He sends it ( John 14:16).
I suppose a a good read of John is appropriate on these matters! Even one member of the Godhead is beyond our puny minds to understand. Agape. Rich P
This is a fascinating thing. I heard a sermon one time saying the words spoken about "if someone sees the face of GOD they cannot live" he said "they cannot live, the same" Is this the question you're looking deeper into? Genesis 32:20,30, Exodus 33:11, Exodus 34:28-30,35,
It would be very interesting to do a study on the words. Exodus 3:6, Exodus 33:20,23, Numbers 6:25, Deuteronomy 5:1-5, Deuteronomy 31:17,18, Deuteronomy 32:20, Deuteronomy 34:10, Judges 6:22, 1Kings 13:6, 1Chronicles 16:11, 2Chronicles 7:14, 2Chronicles 30:9, Psalms 13:1, Psalms 17:5, Psalms 22:24, Psalms 105:4, Isaiah 54:8, Isaiah 59:2, Jeremiah 21:10, Ezekiel 20:35,
Perhaps it's the word "man" that the emphasise is. Romans 8:14, Galatians 4:6, Hebrews 12:7, John 1:12, Philippians 2:15, 1John 3:1,2 , 1John 4:15, How sad it is when a living father says "see his face no more" or turns his face.
Genesis 3:8-10, interestingly, in this translation it says they heard "the voice of the LORD" they "hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God"
What's amazing is: Genesis 4:16, it appears even though they were cast out of the garden GOD's presence was still with them.
Genesis 3:8 seems to indicate that Adam talked with God in the cool of the day along with Eve. The earlier communication in 2:15 seemed to be a command from God. The animals named by Adam were due to God bringing them to him; not necessarily indicating that anything was communicated as a directive for that event. Then once again; God was the sole voice in His declarations to Adam; Eve and the serpent. Evidence of the Godhead is in the word "Elohim" in the beginning of Genesis; and after the fall when He said that man would become "as one of us" (v. 22).
As to which member of the Godhead was talked to; Exodus indicates that no man spoke face to face with God as Moses did ( Exodus 33:11; Deut. 34:10). It would appear that the preincarnate Christ would have been the one who can be approached; and certainly even in His case not in His full glory. Only the back of God could be revealed to Moses ( Exodus 33:12-23).
It should be noted that since man had not yet fallen before this; that there could have been a closer fellowship before Adam hid from God. There was only one restriction before this; and after man was doomed to his fate and eventual physical death after that spiritual death had occurred; the only further restriction at that time was preventing man from taking of the tree of life and living forever in a fallen state. Genesis 3:15 shows God's spiritual provision; and the skins from the first killed animal the outer provision or covering ( Genesis 3:21).
It seems clear that God spoke throughout the process that the Biblical canon was developed; and in fact since Creation. There were lapses; likely before the flood when all but Noah and his immediate family were saved; and later during the time of the Judges according to scripture. There was probably another long lag in the intertestamental period. The sobering thought is even Balaam spoke to God and Judas Iscariot was in His presence. Better to believe what is unseen than seen ( John 20)
Hebrews 4:16, Exodus 14:14, Exodus 33:14.
Having wiped out my most recent attempt at this post TWICE now (aargh) I'll give it one final "hail Mary" as it were.
I suppose once I've committed the entire Bible to memory I'll stop pushing the wrong button to find verses online that knocks me out.
Anyway; I started posting today as I saw a couple individuals concerned about their salvation and it seemed to be a topic needing to be addressed. Earlier I stated that POST salvation that there is indeed a "two way" communication between a believer and the Lord; as it were in prayer. Proverbs 4:18 says But the path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day. Thus; if we know the Lord we learn to recognize our own flaws with mental processes and emotional issues as well as physical desires that all can lead us to sin. I consider doctrines of election as important for many reasons not the least being that God never changes and His covenants relate to that.
Hebrews 8:10 declares "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:"
As a vessel fit for His purposes we are not our own as 1 Corinthians 6:20 states we were "bought with a price." Of course all souls are mine as Esekiel 18:4 states. There are two polar opposites we want to avoid; first fear and cowardice which is warned about in Revelation 22 as something that brings people to hell; but also being presumptuous in for instance; claiming that we no longer sin as believers.
God gives us courage; as He did for Peter after Christ's Ascencion. Dying to self brings true joy! It comes from God not our own hand!
It appears that there were at least 14 prayers of Moses; which I think I can safely say shows his prayers were more frequent and a more intimate relationship with the Lord than anyone besides David and of course Christ Himself; except perhaps John the Baptist. Exodus 33:11 speaks of the uniqueness of Moses who spoke face to face with the Lord and even got to view him from afar (his back quarters) in Exodus 33:20-23. We do well to "camp out" on these prayers to learn something about humility as we see was part of Moses' character; as well as his two faults listed in scripture.
Going back into history a bit; we can see through the prayers for offspring of Abraham and Sarah; and that of a wife for Isaac that the entire Biblical lineage as well as the foundation of the patriarchs who constituted the beginnings of the nation of Israel to come much later were established. We go further to Joseph who oddly enough from what I can see doesn't have any prayers listed although certainly lived a faithful existence. With Abraham we have promises of freedom of captivity after 400 years ( Genesis 15:13) which was finally coming to fruition with Moses being God's chosen vessel for this undertaking. Now we had an entire nation of Jews along with a multitude of others along with untold women and children exiting Egypt and basically wandering in the desert; punished by God so that only Joshua and Caleb remained of the original generation to be accompanied by the next generation. It is noteable that Moses' prayer or plea to God to enter the Promised Land was rejected; although He was allowed to view it from afar. ( Deut. 32:52). This was due to his sin at Meribeh ( Numbers 20:13-15). Moses only had one other sin listed; that of killing the Egyptian back before his own 40 years of exile and hiding in Exodus 2:12.
Themes of prayer for a corporate body in Exodus remind us of prayers needed for the church at large. We also need leaders today like this
Let us stay close to the "ROCK" of our salvation, and the wisdom of our GOD through our diligent study and application of HIS word. Let us walk in the LORD and not fall to the lust of this world. Galatians 5:16
GOD bless everyone as we enter into this new year 2024!
January 1, 2024
The Lord to shine HIS face on all who love HIM; and bless us gloriously.
When considering the return of Christ from our perspective we look forward to the conquering King at His second coming (which in reality is at least His third appearance since He ascended from the grave as a sort of part b to His first appearing in the form of the Son of Man; and the Second Coming is split into the Rapture when He appears in the air and when He physically returns at Armaggedon being a sort of "fourth" coming).
Of course this term doesn't appear in scripture; nor does the Word "trinity". Rapture is what Harpazo means after translation to the term "rapturo" so it isn't in our English texts. In a broader context; Christ appeared in the Old Testament many times (known as a Christophene if it is spelled right). It would seem that the Preincarnate Christ would be there all times; in fact when the Lord communed with man; as no man can see God and live ( Exodus 33:20). The same could be said for Christ in all His glory; John fell at His feet as though dead in his encounter in Revelation ( Rev. 1:17-18).
It is truly profound to consider how Christ was reduced to the microscopic size of a human fetus; just as much as a virgin birth. Surely in that state the angels were protecting him; being part of the Godhead wasn't part of His earthly ministry ( Philippians 2:7) as He had to live as a substitute for us; but without sin as well as dying as our atonement as the perfect sacrifice. The fact that Christ died for His enemies is remarkable. How He took on our sins is incomprehensible as well; but this was God's plan from before the foundation of the earth.
May us all remember the verse Matthew 21:44 in regard to falling on Christ. When He returns He will fall on His enemies and crush all the empires of this world as foretold in Daniel 2:45. Let us fall down in worship and adoration today.
Agape. Rich P
There is no contradiction, we see in Exodus 33:20-23 God told Moses he cannot see my face and no man can see me and live, so God showed Moses His backside, that is the closest any person has come to seeing God. Matt. 5:8 Jesus says those pure in heart meaning those who are amongst the saints/saved will see God. Job knew this as he says in Job 19:26, his glorified flesh/body.
We have our confirmation in Revelation 22:3-4 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: 4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.
We will see God's face and the Lamb/Jesus for they will be the light and the temple of the new earth and the new Jerusalem, Revelation 21:22-23.
God bless,
RLW
Galatians 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,.."
God was not Superman to come as a human being he sent his Son Jesus John 3:16. If Jesus was God he sure is the weakest one I ever read as Jesus can do nothing by himself without the spirit of God his Father in him. John 5:30
John 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
No man can see God's face at anytime as people will die. Moses can never see God's face and neither can we, we only have the Son of God as an example who God his Father really is. Jesus preached God is a spirit John 4:24. Jesus never said that he was God in the whatever and if so nobody would be able to see his face.
John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
Exodus 33:20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.
21 And the LORD said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock:
22 And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by:
23 And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.
Jesus fulfilled the law, which means he died and did everything that was written of him to do. The testimony of two m((en)) is true John 8:7 and not one m((an)). God was not Superman to become flesh, it was his Son as all the prophets of old knew that God had a son.
Daniel 3:25 He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.
God never left his throne he sent his Son Jesus and not himself Romans 8:3.
And in nothing terrified by your adversaries: which is to them an evident token of perdition, but to you of salvation, and that of God. (PHillipians 1:28)."
And as soon as we had heard these things, our hearts did melt, neither did there remain any more courage in any man, because of you: for the LORD your God, he is God in heaven above, and in earth beneath. ( Joshua 2:11).
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom ( Proverbs 9:10). Continuing with some ideas from my previous post; it seems that when it comes to supposed testimonies of hell; the fear of the Lord and a sense of it being His wrath as a great part of the terror is lost in accounts of suffering. The same thing makes us even more suspect with those testimonies about heaven; even Moses who knew God unlike any other man at the time ( Exodus 33:11) and spoke to Him as a friend still had fear when He appeared in all His glory ( Deut. 9:19). WE ALL SHOULD TAKE THIS ADMONITION SERIOUSLY as to fear and AWE of Him no matter how long we have been believers (sorry but I felt caps were needed here).
The assurance of salvation and the evident blessings being present on someone brings meaning to the first quote from Philippians; and the fact that we will return with Him ( Rev. 19:14) will strike fear in those whose eyes are now opened;
along with the fear of judgment to come.
The concept of our enemies also needs to be addressed along with our own enmity toward God that we now have reconciled.
Romans 11:28 shows how the unbeliving Jews were enemies in one sense; yet Paul wished that he himself could be accursed to save them ( Romans 9:3). We are to love our enemies; but not fraternize to gain reputation as the world does; for what is honorable among men is an abomination to God ( Luke 16:15 also could be "highly esteemed"). We should have no part fellowshipping with those who preach a false Gospel; and in no uncertain terms testify to the peril the unsaved is in apart from repentance.
Lot's wife never demonstrated saving faith from what scripture would indicate; at the very least desiring more to turn back to see the fate of the city doomed for destruction rather than to escape. "Righteous Lot" ( 2 Peter 2:7-8) was vexed every day; and clearly quite compromised in his dealings when he offered his daughters to the men who were trying to break down his door to commit abominations. No mention of his wife is in the scriptures; as was with Sarah; for instance in Hebrews 11.
Today in church it was discussed how Abraham was said to be the only one who was a "friend" of God ( James 2:23). Exodus 33:11 states the same of Moses as well so technically my Pastor erred. My point here I may expound on later; namely the fact that God truly spoke in a different manner to them than many others in the Bible. The friendship; in other words went both ways. The discussion also came up today in Sunday school on how He is both Master and friend. This is a mystery in itself; and forces us beyond stereotypical cultural viewpoints toward such a relationship. As for now; I will just state that Lot had to be "shoved" out of his town literally; and the angels had to put up with his ridiculous bantering about going to the nearby little town; which was promptly abandoned once Lot saw what happened and hid in the mountains. Abraham and Moses both had slow starts and their own issues; but were able to have close fellowship with the Lord as we see from Genesis 18:17 with Abraham and Exodus 32:30 where Moses acted to intercede to prevent God from destroying all of Israel. That scene is another discussion as to its theological implications.
We all should strive to be as the saints in the "hall of fame" in Hebrews 11; not stubborn like Jonah as an ox. Nonetheless these all are true believers. We CANNOT claim God's promises with an imaginary Christ or on other terms than scripture dictates and expect it to be true.
Notice; it says "to the angel of the church" I'm assuming it's because it's not to the people as a whole. Exodus 33:16, 1Thessalonians 5:22,
Hopefully these are helpful in your studies
I will give my understanding,
Your first question; is there anywhere in the heavens or the earth that God cannot be, Psalm 139:7-10 Proverbs 15:3 Jeremiah 23:23-24 Hebrews 4:13 Isaiah 6:3. But is the universe, the earth, and everything on the earth a manifestation of God? NO that is Pantheism and is forbidden in the Bible as idol worship, if everything is God it can be worshiped.
His dwelling place is in heaven that is above heaven (universe) and earth, beyond and outside of the physical universe, 1 Kings 8:30 1 Kings 8:43 2 Chr. 20:6 Psalm 11:4 Daniel 2:28 Matt. 5:16 Matt. 6:9. God gave His only begotten Son to die for us, John 3:16 God by the Holy Spirit can dwell in us if we accept Jesus as our savior we are cleansed by His blood, Romans 8:9-11 1 Cor. 3:16
God can see everything and take action anywhere, Prov. 15:3 Heb. 4:13 but God is everywhere at once? He is in that he is aware of everything in the physical universe both past, present, and future, and he can turn his attention to anyone or anything at any time.
Has anyone seen God? Moses came the closest, God showed him His backside, Exodus 33:12-23. No man in the flesh can see God's face and live, John 1:18 John 4:12 1 Tim. 6:16. We will see His face after the resurrection in our immortal and incorruptible body, Rev 22:4.
How can one Know that God exists? The Bible: He has revealed things to us, and the evidence is convincing if anyone is willing to consider the evidence. History also confirms many things that were prophesied in the Bible long before they happened. The word of God is the truth, and the Holy Spirit will reveal it to those with an open mind and open heart who honestly want the truth.
This is my understanding in love may it help, search and pray for yours.
God bless,
RLW
Exodus 33:14 kjv: And he said , My presence shall go with thee, and I will give thee
rest.
Psalm 138:3 kjv: In the day when I cried thou answeredst me , and strengthenedst me
with strength in my soul.
We see the impartiality of God in the Angel of Gideon when he stated that he was "on the Lord's side" in Judges chapter 5. It wasn't revealed fully until chapter 6; verse 22. The "Angel" of God that people were instructed to follow also signified God because of the capital letter as well as the fact that disobedience would result in Divine punishment. There was surely a Saviour promised in the O.T.; and Genesis mentioned man being created in "our likeness". The distinction of the Godhead could only be stated in the fact that God the Father never appears to have a definite appearance; as the N.T. states no one has "seen God." ( John 1:18). No one can "see God and live" ( Exodus 33:20) and Moses could only see the back parts again probably of the preincarnate Christ.
It was in the visions and dreams (such as with Daniel) such as the rock that destroyed the rest of the kingdoms of the earth where Christ's glory is revealed. ( Dan. 2:31-36).
Going by the quote above is God selective when it comes to blessings?
That is what I thought.
Moses is asking to see God completely unveiled, to see God in His essential Being, without outward manifestation, but to see Him as He truly is. Moses was bold after YHWH had said that he had found grace in His sight and He knew Moses by name.
YHWH did not grant Moses' request fully, for no man can see God in His true essence (to see His face) and live, for He is so absolutely holy and majestic that we are unable to bear the experience. He lives in inapproachable light. YHWH modifies Moses' request and says that He will have his Goodness pass before him and will proclaim the name of the LORD before Moses. He then says, "I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion." This is an interesting statement. It doesn't simply say that YHWH will show grace and compassion to Moses. But is rather a statement of His essential nature. Like the name I AM WHO I AM, this statement tells of Who YHWH is essentially concerning His grace and compassion. No one can contest it nor thwart it. YHWH places Moses in a cleft of a rock and covers Moses' eyes with His hand as He walks by and releases His hand so Moses will see the backside of Himself. This must be figuratively speaking as God is Spirit and therefore does not have a body like humans do. It must be that to see God in "full frontal view" would be to see Him in His transcendency, which no man can view, but to see His backside would be to see Him in a way that a human can comprehend and survive the glory of seeing His Being in the most clear and true way that is possible for man to bear.
Jesus is the perfect revelation of God. In Him we are able to see the fullness of the Godhead and still survive. He, being fully human and fully God, is the perfect Mediator between the Father and mankind. It is Jesus we will see in heaven. And we will be so satisfied with seeing Him face to face. We will realize how seeing Jesus is also seeing the Father ( Jn 14:9-11)
YHWH spoke with Moses as with a friend. How wonderful to know oneself as a friend of God! Moses was not God's enemy, but one with whom YHWH was pleased and one whom YHWH chose to interact with. It was not Moses' doing. It was YHWH who showed up when Moses went to the tent waiting for Him. Do we have a place set aside for meeting with God? Do we wait there in anticipation and faith that He will show up?
The text says that Moses would go back among the people in the camp, but Joshua remained in this tent of meeting, not departing from it. What lessons Joshua must have learned from dwelling in the place where YHWH would meet with Moses.
Moses then inquires of YHWH concerning who He will send with Moses to lead these people. Moses then recalls what YHWH had said to him, "I know you by name, and you have also found grace in my sight." So wonderful that God knows us by name and has chosen to place us in His grace. Moses then asks YHWH to show him His way in order to know Him and to be given grace. He also asks YHWH to consider the Israelite nation to be His people. Here Moses not only prays for himself to remain with YHWH and YHWH with him, but also intercedes for the nation, that YHWH would do the same for them.
YHWH answers, "My Presence will go with you, and I will give you rest." Moses request was answered with the assurance that YHWH will accompany not only Moses, but the nation as well by His Presence. (What is His Presence here, I wonder?) YHWH also promised to give rest to Moses. Does this mean that Moses' task of leading these people to the Promised Land will end once they arrive or is it speaking of his death? Here, rest is spoken of as a good thing to receive.
In the next section of this chapter we have the account of Moses asking YHWH to show him His glory. What a bold request! Moses had met with YHWH on the mountain and in the tent of meeting visible manifestations of YHWH's Presence. Yet, to Moses, he wanted even more!
This morning I continue in this chapter. There is a change of focus in the chapter at this point. It begins by speaking of Moses moving the his tent of meeting (tabernacle) outside of the camp. Whereas before, Moses' tent was within the camp, this move graphically shows how YHWH had separated Himself from dwelling within the midst of the people to dwelling outside, still near, but not within. The difference here is very significant. YHWH did not leave the Israelites, but by meeting with Moses outside the camp, He spared them from being consumed by His just punishment for their gross sin of idolatry. This shows (also graphically) how sin separates us from God. Interesting, the purpose for the separation in this chapter is given as to prevent God from consuming them. This is an act of grace on God's part. I have always thought of the separation from God being because He cannot dwell with sinfulness. However, this chapter puts a new viewpoint on this separation that I had not realized before. Even though YHWH was outside of the camp, He is always omnipresent, therefore, always near enough for us to call upon Him.
The people would go to Moses' tent of meeting (Tabernacle) to seek YHWH. Whenever Moses went out to the tabernacle (his tent), all of the people rose and stood at the door of their tents and watched Moses until he had entered this tabernacle. Whereas before Moses would go up Mt. Sinai to meet with YHWH, now YHWH meet with Moses at his tent, descending with the cloudy pillar, positioning before the door of the tent. In this way, YHWH spoke with Moses. When this happened, all the people rose and worshipped YHWH, each at their own tent doorway. What a beautiful depiction of worship being done by the Israelites without any false image, but because God's Presence was evident in the pillar of clouds at the door of Moses' tent. They would drop all that they were doing and stand in honor of YHWH and worship Him. Worship was simple here.
What the land would produce when worked. There are more figures of speech
Used in the bible than any other book. Other examples the hand of God, the
Ground is thirsty, He maketh our steps like a hinds feet or mountain goats
Sure footed steps in our walk with God. God used these with absolute perfection
And precision and they hold tremendous truths when worked.
The people were deeply dismayed that YHWH was not going to "tabernacle" among them on this journey. They may have thought that the God who delivered them from slavery in Egypt would be "afar off" now because of their idolatry. How little they understood of YHWH at this time. The Angel would be YHWH's Representative among the people, the Mediator between His sinful people and Himself. Here we may have a statement concerning the role of the Son of God, pre-incarnate. He is eternally the Mediator between God and Man. Otherwise, there would be no interactions between the Father and humanity other than judgment. But we do not know for sure if this Angel was, indeed, the Son of God.
The sinfulness of these people who had consecrated themselves to YHWH required a "go-between". Let us remind ourselves how serious sin is to God. We cannot approach Him without a Mediator, and that Mediator is only Jesus. YHWH stepped out of the people He had saved as an act of mercy and grace to prevent them being consumed by Him.
It says that the people mourned and did not put on their ornaments, as YHWH had instructed them to do, thus showing repentance. I do not know what these ornaments were; perhaps jewelry from the Egyptians. These ornaments would remind them of their sin of idolatry because the calf was made of such ornamentation. They stripped themselves of any such self-adornment. They instead took the dress of one who is penitent, remorseful, in mourning. There, at Mt. Sinai, otherwise known as Horeb, where the Decalogue was given, and the people were soon rebellious against it, they stripped themselves of what was valuable to them in the carnal way, and then turned from wearing them again. They did not put these ornaments back on.
We would be wise to do likewise. when we confess our sin to Jesus, we are to do so with repentance, with the intent of not returning to these sins, divesting ourselves of all that entangles us in sin, avoiding such snares.
God promised to drive out all of the inhabitants of the Promised Land for the Israelites. It would be HIs working. The Israelites would have to trust Him, believe Him, and not try to do it themselves apart from Him. We must do the same. I am thankful we have the Holy Spirit dwelling in us to be the one who defeats our enemies who oppose God and us, His precious possession.
YHWH said that the land was flowing with milk and honey. There are 20+ Scriptures that use this phrase for the Promised Land. I have always wondered what this phrase actually means. I did a quick inquiry on line and found some good points to mention.
1. The Land was filled with grasslands and vegetation to sustain their livestock, so the females would be calving and giving milk.
2. The Land was able to sustain many colonies of bees, which require vegetation for nectar and in turn, the bees pollinate the vegetation. so there was good symbiosis in the land among the plants and animals abiding there.
3. The Land had nutrient rich soil (re: the cluster of grapes that was so large that two men were needed to carry it). the soil would yield bumper crops of food.
4, Being a coastal region, the Marine climate from the Mediterranean would bring ample rain to provide water to drink and to grow food.
5. In this time, the Land of Promise was most likely less desolate that today. It was well forested, which would require more rain then there is today.
6. The reference to milk indicates that the land was suitable for farming and raising livestock to sustain the people's food needs.
7. The reference to honey indicates that the land would provide beyond mere sustenance, but much delight and ease of living.
These thoughts may help us understand the phrase better. I don't believe that the Scriptures ever defines this phrase.
YHWH says that He will not go among the people on their journey, lest he consume them for being a stiff-necked people. The Angel would go with them.
Today I praise the Lord for His goodness!
In this chapter we read what comes after the incident of the golden calf where we learned that sin, especially idolatry requires that God bring judgment upon the sinners. It is the most serious thing in all of creation because if God acted on His righteous judgment, humanity would have ended with Adam and Eve's sin in the Garden of Eden. They thought they would be like God and know how to direct their own life. We see in Exodus chapter 32 how the Israelites thought they could direct their own ways, too, and made an object that they thought could truly represent YHWH or even BE Him. How little did they know YHWH! We can fall into this same mindset if we do not increase our knowledge of God in Christ. We should endeavor to know Who God is from what He has revealed to us in His Word, in history, and especially in Jesus. Idolatry flourishes when true knowledge of God is limited. If one is not reconciled to God through Christ and not in the Word to learn of Him, one will have an inaccurate (and most often, too human-like) view of Who He is. We begin to think that He is altogether like us because we are made in His image. But such an image of Him, even in our thoughts, is idolatry.
Yet we also learned in Ch. 32 that God accepted the intercession of Moses because He already had accepted the sacrifice of Jesus to atone for sin before the foundation of the world) and in doing so, showed mercy to this nation He brought out of Egypt.
In Chapter 33, YHWH tells Moses to get up and move on into the way God directs them. YHWH says that they will go to the land He promised to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Despite the resistance and stubbornness of these people, YHWH was still going to fulfill his promise to these patriarchs. He will always be true and faithful to what He promised. His will will be done!
He also promised to send His Angel to go before them and drive out the peoples between their location at Sinai and Canaan.
You claim that Exodus 33:11 and Exodus 33:20 is a contradiction.
Exodus 33:9-20. And it came to pass, as Moses entered into the tabernacle, the CLOUDY PILLAR DESCENDED, AND STOOD AT THE DOOR OF THE TABERNACLE, AND THE LORD TALKED WITH MOSES.
Paul I believe what is mentioned here is the Lord spoke to Moses "DIRECTLY" as a man speaks to his friend. He spoke to him from the cloudy pillar. Moses never saw his face. They interact as friends as Abraham interacted with the Lords angel in Genesis 18.
I believe the emphasis in verse 11 is on the Lord spoke to Moses as a friend and directly.
The children of Israel also saw the Cloudy pillar at the door as they did in Exodus 19:18 and Exodus 20:18-19. but they didn't speak to the Lord as Moses did.
AND ALL THE PEOPLE SAW THE CLOUDY PILLAR STAND AT THE TABERNACLE DOOR: and all the people rose up and worshipped, every man in his tent door.
And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle.
Verses 17-20. And the LORD said unto Moses, I will do this thing also that thou hast spoken: for thou hast found grace in my sight, and I know thee by name.
And he said, I beseech thee, shew me thy glory.
And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy.
And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.
There's no contradiction here.
God bless.
You asked,
Why can't both verses be true?
I do believe both verses are true.
I appreciate very much your input.
I am struggling to understand,
Are you saying we are saved by both works and grace?
I did say I do believe we are saved by both.
But as far as Bible contradictions, they do exist.
And to say Paul and James contradict would not be an issue.
The Bible contradicts itself quite often.
It is not uncommon.
Nevertheless, it does not shake my faith in the Bible.
For example,
Matthew records Christ came through David's son Solomon ( Matthew 1:6)
But Luke records Christ came through David's son Nathan ( Luke 3:31)
Exodus 33:20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.
Exodus 33:11 And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend.
And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah. ( 2 Samuel 24:1)
And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel. ( 1 Chronicles 21:1)
Who provoked David, God or Satan?
Is Judah or Dan are a lion's whelp?
And of Dan he said, Dan is a lion's whelp: he shall leap from Bashan. ( Deuteronomy 33:22)
Judah is a lion's whelp: from the prey, my son, thou art gone up: he stooped down, he couched as a lion, and as an old lion; who shall rouse him up? ( Genesis 49:9)
And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people. ( Exodus 32:14)
And also the Strength of Israel will not lie nor repent: for he is not a man, that he should repent. ( 1 Samuel 15:9)
By The law: Romans 3:10-31,
Faith : Romans 4, Romans 5,
Obedience, yeilding to GOD: Psalms 84:11, Romans 6, Romans 12, 1Corinthians 3:9-15, 2Corinthians 9:8, Ephesians 2:1-10, Titus 3:7,8, 1Peter 4:10, 1Peter 5:1-11,
Romans 11:16-22, Matthew 25:31-46, Matthew 7: , Hebrews 10, James 2,
Watch out for: Jude 1:4,
Hopefully these are helpful in your walk, with GOD
Numbers 8:14, 1Kings 8:53, Jeremiah 1:5, Matthew 25:32-41, Luke 6:22, Acts 13:2, 2Corinthians 6:17, Hebrews 7:26, Matthew 22:1-14, 1Peter 2:9,
Romans 9:21-24,
Hopefully these are helpful
It seems that the Holy Spirit is misunderstood for His main role bringing conviction of sin righteousness and judgment to come ( John 16:8). There is no scripture where the "helper" ( John 14:26) is instructed to be worshipped. Instead; it strengthens the believer; as a small reflection of Christ who possessed the Spirit "without limit" or measure ( John 3:34).
Believers have quibbled as to verses that mention the Trinity and others only mentioning baptism in the name of Christ. We also need to understand the Christophenes or preincarnate appearances of Christ. No one has seen the Father according to Christ; surely the full glory of God would kill a man ( John 1:18; Exodus 33:18-20). The Spirit has only been described in a visible manifestation or accompanying sign once; in Acts at Pentecost. Jesus makes it clear that when the Comforter (i.e. Spirit) comes that WE shall dwell with him ( John 14:23). He is to ask the Father and He sends it ( John 14:16).
I suppose a a good read of John is appropriate on these matters! Even one member of the Godhead is beyond our puny minds to understand. Agape. Rich P
It would be very interesting to do a study on the words. Exodus 3:6, Exodus 33:20,23, Numbers 6:25, Deuteronomy 5:1-5, Deuteronomy 31:17,18, Deuteronomy 32:20, Deuteronomy 34:10, Judges 6:22, 1Kings 13:6, 1Chronicles 16:11, 2Chronicles 7:14, 2Chronicles 30:9, Psalms 13:1, Psalms 17:5, Psalms 22:24, Psalms 105:4, Isaiah 54:8, Isaiah 59:2, Jeremiah 21:10, Ezekiel 20:35,
Perhaps it's the word "man" that the emphasise is. Romans 8:14, Galatians 4:6, Hebrews 12:7, John 1:12, Philippians 2:15, 1John 3:1,2 , 1John 4:15, How sad it is when a living father says "see his face no more" or turns his face.
Genesis 3:8-10, interestingly, in this translation it says they heard "the voice of the LORD" they "hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God"
What's amazing is: Genesis 4:16, it appears even though they were cast out of the garden GOD's presence was still with them.
Psalms 139, Job 4:15,
Hopefully this is helpful
As to which member of the Godhead was talked to; Exodus indicates that no man spoke face to face with God as Moses did ( Exodus 33:11; Deut. 34:10). It would appear that the preincarnate Christ would have been the one who can be approached; and certainly even in His case not in His full glory. Only the back of God could be revealed to Moses ( Exodus 33:12-23).
It should be noted that since man had not yet fallen before this; that there could have been a closer fellowship before Adam hid from God. There was only one restriction before this; and after man was doomed to his fate and eventual physical death after that spiritual death had occurred; the only further restriction at that time was preventing man from taking of the tree of life and living forever in a fallen state. Genesis 3:15 shows God's spiritual provision; and the skins from the first killed animal the outer provision or covering ( Genesis 3:21).
It seems clear that God spoke throughout the process that the Biblical canon was developed; and in fact since Creation. There were lapses; likely before the flood when all but Noah and his immediate family were saved; and later during the time of the Judges according to scripture. There was probably another long lag in the intertestamental period. The sobering thought is even Balaam spoke to God and Judas Iscariot was in His presence. Better to believe what is unseen than seen ( John 20)