Discuss Ezekiel 28 Page 3

Saint Michael wrote; "If according to the Old Testament God the Father created evil, then does it not follow that a part of God's nature contains evilness?"

The appearance of evil ocurred in consequence of the disobedience of the Cherub and of the all angels that follow him.

Ezekiel 28:v.14 to 19

14 Thou art the anointed Cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the Holy Mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

15 Thou wast PERFECT in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till INIQUITY was found in thee.

16 ... and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as PROFANE out of the Mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering Cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast CORRUPTED thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.

18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes(reduced the Cherub to Devil) ,upon the EARTH in the sight of all them that behold thee.

19 All they that know thee among the PEOPLE shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a TERROR,and never shalt thou be any more.

Jude 1:v.6-7

6 And the ANGELS which kept not their first estate(celestial estate), but left their own habitation, GOD hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the Judgment of this great Day.

7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner (of the angels), giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example,suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Gen.6:2-the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair;and they took them wives of all which they chose.I will destroy man whom I have created

When God created the heaven and the earth, He gave the angels the right to choose good and evil, that is Gods love . Gods love is you have the right to choose who you want to follow. Deuteronomy 30;15 " I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil" and in 30:19 It is repeated " I call heaven and earth this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessings and cursing; therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live." when God created lucifer iniquity was found in him ( Ezekiel 28:15 ) and he wanted to be like God . When God formed Adam out of the earth and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life , He became the first living soul , the other created man were not given a living soul, yes they were physically alive but spiritually dead, like anyone today if they have not been born again. Adam did not know evil until they partaken of the tree of good and evil.

Hi Charles. Isaiah 14:12-14, How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be ""LIKE"" the most High.



( Lucifer wanted to be ""LIKE"" GOD. I think he wanted the glory and the worship.) " This may carry a different meaning than want to be God" This brings it home.

Ezekiel 28:12-15, Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.

Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Hello Johnny,

Where have you read "angels don't have wings" in the Holy Bible?

As is Revelation 8:13, and Revelation 14:6, an angel was beheld "flying through the midst of Heaven". As far as we know something needs wings to fly. I believe God can make angels however He wants.

As I know angels can be perceived as mere humans. So maybe saying not "all" angels have wings would be more accurate. As I would not go as far as to say "angels don't have wings" as neither you nor I could say we truly have a factual answer for that.

God Bless.

lucifer was not an angel! he was an anointed cherub. angels don't have wings. cherubs do.

This portion in Isaiah 14:4 onwards, speaks specifically about the King of Babylon, who was wicked, presumptuous, & had delusions of grandeur (as many of the heathen kings did). However, verses 12-15 are also seen as a description of the Devil, as one who entertained sin (to be like God), was cast out from Heaven (when he was once an angel there), onto Earth (& we know what mischief he got to here), & whose domain is Hell, though being the god of this world leading many people into his domain.

You can also read in Ezekiel 28:11-19 where a similar accusation was made to the King of Tyrus, but has a wider meaning & fulfilment in Satan. So, these portions have nothing to do with Christ's resurrection & ascension.

Suzanne,

Angels aren't robots or mere animals acting merely on pre-programmed instinct. They have freewill to choose. I believe this because the Bible says so. It clearly says satan was a cherub (angel) in heaven and he disobeyed and was cast out.

Sources:

Ezekiel 28:12-18

Isaiah 14:12-14

Matthew 25:41 says satan also has angels. So, if you believe no angels can sin, and since satan has angels, do you not believe satan is evil or commits sin?

Does your belief that angels don't sin come from the Bible? If so, where in the Bible do you think it says angels don't think for themselves, don't have freewill, and that satan wasn't an angel? Now that you know these verses above exist in the Bible, does that influence your perspective?

Yes, we get an indication of the physical Satan in Ezekiel 28:12-19. Though Ezekiel is directing his prophecy to the King of Tyrus, we understand that through the description of his wickedness, the picture of Satan (& specifically Satan's former position in Heaven as a 'cherub' & 'having being in the Garden of Eden') clearly show us a dual meaning to this prophecy. Yes, Satan had beauty & perfection (verses 12,13,17) & as a cherub, that position is normally associated in being in close proximity to God's Presence (as in the Tabernacle on Earth & over the Ark of the Covenant), & in relation to God's Holiness.

Why did Satan go bad? Verse 17 tells us that his heart "was lifted up because of his beauty". Not that he always admired himself 'in the mirror', but his heart was lifted up against the Most High, believing that he was as good or better than God. See Isaiah 14:12-15, & particularly, that he was perfect, Ezekiel 28:15 (sinless, as all the other heavenly beings), until his pride took over & he believed he was better than God. But the big question: how was it possible for Satan to sin, & can other heavenly beings likewise sin? It seems that even by being in the Holy Presence of God & finding complete delight in worshipping Him, there can still be that element of choice. For in his pride & estrangement from God, he also gathered to himself other 'defecting' angels (see 2 Peter 2:4; Revelation 12:7-9; Jude 1:6).

We see Jesus in His humanity, though pure & sinless, He was tempted of Satan (Matthew chapter 4). Jesus resisted Satan using God's Word against him. However, Satan was in the presence of God & His Word in Heaven, yet allowed the thought of grandeur to enter in & develop into sin ( James 1:15) & finally a full blown wickedness that saw him banished from God's Presence & ever since, working against God to bring & keep humanity in his solid grip. But the Cross of Jesus brings us release from that grip - if we can only trust Jesus for it.

Oh yes, I believe Satan knew full well what the implications of Jesus' death & resurrection would mean to him & to everyone caught in his snare of sin & pursuing sinful lives. But the 'nature of the beast' drives him to put into effect every skill & trick he has to try to out-smart & out-do God's Divine Plan & Power. He knows that ultimately he won't succeed & will be defeated ( Revelation 12:12), but as we say, "he will go down fighting to the very end". That is his nature - that is his singular focus: to keep mankind estranged from their Creator & to be subservient to him, the destroyer of our souls.

Satan knows that the Cross is not some idle, ill-advised plan of God, because He knows the Nature of God, him being once considered as a 'covering Cherub' ( Ezekiel 28:16), which implies his previous position associated with God's Holiness. He knows the Power, Wisdom & Holiness of God, and that his character would always be deficient & defective as a result of his pride, sin & fall. But will that knowledge stop him believing that his greatness is comparable to God, that his wisdom & power can put up a good fight against God's Holiness & that the more he can deceive the World & gather them to himself, will translate to him being the victor? We were not unlike him, as once the children of the devil, how easy it was for us to consider ourselves more superior to others, not as bad sinners as others are, our righteousness will secure Heaven for us, that success in wealth & receiving man's adulation ought to be our present pursuit & enjoyment, etc, etc. The qualities of God & of Satan are diametrically opposed to each other. Our present pursuit, with our renewed minds & spirits, are only towards the things of God & not to the one who came to steal, kill & destroy our lives.

Of Judas: for the sake of prophecy, his actions by Satan's influence had to occur ( Matthew 27:9,10 & Zechariah 11:12,13). By the way, in Jewish reckoning, many prophetical books came under Jeremiah.

After the flood, the rebellious angels who went after Adams daughters; drowned.

Only 8 souls survived: Noah's family.

The evil ones had no bodies. Bodies Drowned. (There's a chapter where they rail on Satan for getting them killed.) With no bodies they became Demons.

In the New Testament, Jesus cast many out of afflicted peoples, body and soul. If you think..So What?... they can still get inside people who are not Born Again.

They wander until they find some kind of living thing to get inside. That statement is validated in Ephesians 6:11-12, Eph. 2:2, Isaiah 24:21-22 (some are imprisoned); some are in high places; Michael had to fight one so Gabriel could get a message to Daniel. Isaiah 14:16, satan isn't big & handsome. Ezekiel 28:23-19.

Satan has a will and he uses it to hurt people.

Often people blame God for the bad things that happen. If people today have idols in their lives (porn on the computer, gamble online, horoscopes, etc.) There are specialized demons that inhabit those things. We open the door they use to come inside our lives.

One even followed Paul around, hindering his meetings till he turned and cast it out of that woman! THEY ARE INVISIBLE!!! We never have drinks and smoke pot alone.

Maybe we should turn our focus away from nephalim in Genesis and lay our eyes on how to identify demonic activity in our lives, family, friends, mean neighbors, violent video games etc. ask yourself: what Fruit am I seeing?? Is someone depressed or suicidal? That's a spirit of death. Drugs, alcohol, pot=spirit of bondage. Learn these things. You could be praying to set clueless people FREE to follow Jesus.

Please think about this. Remember people who died way too early. Some of you commit to pray every day for Military who will be returning home soon, to find jobs miraculously, find new friends, be blessed for serving. Hold their lives Precious within your heart and spirit. Let's love Larger than just ourselves.

Mishandled

No Judas is not in Heaven. Did Judas have a relationship with God just because he followed Jesus and hung around Him? This relationship must occur on a Spiritual level to separate a person from the world. Not talking about leaving the world, but worldly things. Judas managed the money for the disciples. He was to give to the poor and buy food for them. This role is not by coincidence. Jesus used this to demonstrate that Judas' ties to this kept him with a worldly vision for Jesus and not understanding his need for a Spiritual relationship with The Father.

"You were the anointed cherub who covers,

And I placed you there.

You were on the holy mountain of God;

You walked in the midst of the stones of fire.

You were blameless in your ways

From the day you were created

Until unrighteousness was found in you.

By the abundance of your trade

You were internally filled with violence,

And you sinned;

Therefore I have cast you as profane

From the mountain of God.

And I have destroyed you, O covering cherub,

From the midst of the stones of fire."

Ezekiel 28:14-16 (NASB)

An angel, yes but not a whoshiping angel. He wanted to be whoshiped like God, why God kicked him out of healven.

Isaiah 11, I think.

where does it say in the Bible that Lucifer was a worshipping angel

Isaiah 14

11 Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.

12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O LUCIFER, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, "Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;"

Satans name before the fall was Lucifer.

Use the search box to find other scriptures on him.

verse 13, When were angels / Satan created?

Mishael, may the Spirit grace us with his words, you quoted Isaiah 14:11-16. Verse 16 says: They that see thee (king of Babylon) shall narrowly look upon thee (king of Babylon), and consider thee (king of Babylon), saying is this the MAN (king of Babylon) that made the earth to tremble, and that did shake kingdoms. The whole chapter is about the king of Babylon. Ezekiel 28 is talking about the king of Tyrus, Ezekiel 28:12. Satan was a liar and murder from the beginning, no perfection there. The third that fall in Revelation 12:4 is the same third in Zachariah 13:9 and the same third in Ezekiel 5:1-4 and the same third in Revelation 8:7-12. These prophesies are about fire saving mankind not torturing mankind.

Jesse,

You state,

"Just one more thing kind sir,

I am not too sure that I can say with certainty that Judas did not commit the unpardonable sin. There is nothing in scripture that would have me to believe that Judas ever surrendered His life to Christ or that he was a true follower. Sure, Christ chose him as one of the 12. But Judas was evil. I believe Christ chose an evil man to fulfill the prophecy saying He would be betrayed. Jesus chose an evil man to fulfill that role and Judas was that man.

What is your understanding of the unpardonable sin?

Look at Matthew 12:32, Mark 3:28, Luke 12:10.

Are you sure enough with your newly acquired understanding of a few Greek words to claim that, as you state, "Judas never surrendered his life to Jesus" and that Judas was "never a true follower"?

I have never met someone that is pure evil, have you? Even Satan at one time was good, even "perfect" ( Ezekiel 28:12-15).

So kind sir, please do not get too upset when you are challenged on Scriptural matters. I was not trying to offend, just understand.

Just one more thing my friend: Forgiveness is based on being SORRY for what you did and try to make amends (30 pieces of silver). God is the Judge. Ephesians 4:32.

Maribell, I believe that the Devil created evil by his first action to oppose God. Jesus said in John 8:44: "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it." This verse tells us that from the very beginning the Devil's sinful condition & existence was evident.

Also read Ezekiel 28:12-19 & particularly verse 15, "Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee." Though this discourse is directed to the King of Tyrus, it clearly has a strong reference to the wicked spirit within the heart of the King (read from verse 2) that has its root in the Devil (formerly an anointed cherub in Heaven).

We don't understand the mechanics of the actual start of evil since something pure (e.g. a glass of clean water) doesn't magically become dirty unless something dirty is added to it. But we believe that in spite of the Cherub's purity in his creation by God, something entered his 'heart' to want oppose his Creator, to be like God (pride), to be disobedient & to start his own following of angels that sinned with him. And aren't these the very reasons for Adam & Eve's downfall & all of mankind? We are disobedient & want to believe that we are 'demi gods' who are equipped with God's Wisdom & Power & can do anything we want, even in opposition to God's Will & Design. Yet, we soon find that we fall woefully short of perfection & the Devil himself knows that he can never be like God & will one day have to pay eternally for his wickedness & leading so many people into Hell with him. That's why God in His great Love sent His pure Son to save us & forever defeat the works of the Devil in us.

Chris,

page 2

Concerning the three heaven and earth AGES; reference will again be pointed toward the entire chapter of 2nd Peter chapter 3. This might give you a clearer understanding of these separate DISPENSATIONS OF TIME (not the formation of three separate heavens and earths). For reference I will again state that "the world that then was" ( 2 Peter 3:6) refers to the first dispensation of time. "The heavens and earth which are now" ( 2 Peter 3:7) refers to the second dispensation of time (the time we are presently living in from Adam until now). And "a new heavens and a new earth" ( 2 Peter 3:13) refer to the time period that all God fearing humans are waiting for; also look at Isaiah 65:17, Isaiah 66:12, Revelations 21:1.

My question concerning Satan brings into light the three dispensations of time; as Scripture would be most difficult to understand without comprehension of them.

The fall of Satan happened in the first earth and heaven age and was the reason for the end of that particular time period. Information regarding this can be found (as you stated) in Isaiah 14:12-20, Isaiah 45:18, 19, Jeremiah 4:22-29, and Ezekiel 28:12-19, as they are descriptive figurative statements revealing him to us. Not a page of God's word could be turned without the use of figurative language; which is employed to emphasize a truth and reveal a deeper understanding of the topic being discussed.

Therefore, "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth." Genesis 1:1. That was the first earth age.

Found in first half of Genesis 1:2 is the result of the end of the first dispensation of time (due to the rebellion of Satan); hence, the earth was (became) without form and void.

Found in the second half of Genesis 1:2 is the first act of the second dispensation of time; hence, the Spirit of God moving upon the waters.

I stayed up most of last night, being led through BIBLE SCRIPTURES, that back up what the teacher is teaching. It is painstakingly slow, And biblically SOUND.

I would not have even listened to it if it didn't have scriptural foundation. The teacher uses the Hebrew to explain the events that happened. I do not know why I had NEVER heard this expanded teaching before, at church, but I have now. I still have 3 hours to listen to!

Here are some scripture passages you'll want to mark for that study. At one point I just began to write all over the page margins :/

This may interest you to listen to it on YouTube later.

Genesis 1, Job 1:8, restoration of earth in Genesis,

Jeremiah 4;23-28

Jeremiah 4:26 Gods anger

Isaiah 24:1 Is pre-Adam; God turned earth upside down,

Job 9:1-9 earth frozen ball of ice

Revelation ch 6

Job 38. Science has proved the Bible is accurate;

Deu. 32:4 Gods work is perfect

Isa 45:18

Eccl. 3:11

Psalm 18:30

Genesis verses 6-9 restoration not creation

Genesis 1-2 earth not 6 thousand years old; it's billions, what science proved.

I had all the prophetic scriptures boxed; I just didn't know how the fit in. When it says former inhabitants and people's, those are the 1/3 angels that followed Lucifer.

Isaiah 14:17 20 spoken by demons to Lucifer

Satan was in hell when Adam was created. He was turned into a snake. Was in the garden Ezekiel 28:13

Ezekiel 28: 1-19 Lucifer>Satan

Lucifer went from Archangel/ covering Cherub. God>Holy Spirit>Jesus>Lucifer

4th in line to the throne. Isa.14:12

YouTube. WAR IN THE HEAVENLIES, by Benny Hinn. 5 hour teaching

Why do we need to put this together so we can understand it?? Because people ask questions. And..,it's very important to Satan. We need to know HOW he came to be loose on the earth; after Adam and after Jesus'S death on the Cross.

For myself and you, we have a responsibility to piece this together as it really happened.

Shannon, that verse in Gen 1 can sound tricky unless you see how the pronouns are used. 'Beast' is written in the singular, thus the use of 'his kind', or its species. 'Cattle' is in plural, therefore using 'their kind; and so with 'every creeping thing' is in the singular. There is no reference or even inference that the Trinity is seen in this verse. That is altogether a false interpretation of the Scripture.

Re: your comment on Angels. Well, in Nehemiah 9:6, we read: "Thou, even thou, art LORD alone; thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all; and the host of heaven worshippeth thee." This of course tells us that God created all things & also the "host of Heaven". This "host", or inhabitants, would include the angels, seraphim, cherubim, & other heavenly beings. They may have been created at some point before God's creative Work was completed ( Genesis 2:1 "...all the host of them (were finished))". Satan himself was a created being, a Cherub ( Ezekiel 28:13-16): the King of Tyrus is spoken of in these verses but vv 13 & 15 indicate this was not a mere human but a reference to Satan. It speaks about God creating him & he was perfect until iniquity was found in him & thus banished from God's presence.

So, that should give you a quick explanation to your questions.

GEORGE: In Luke 14:1-6

The Pharisees were again trying to catch Jesus being too liberal on law issues. This incident happened on a Sabbath day. A guy walks in with dropsy. Jesus asks if it's lawful to Heal (anyone) on the Sabbath day ? Big intake of breath (aha we're going to nail Him!). Jesus heals the guy and let's him leave. Jesus says: which of you shall have an ass or an ox fallen into a pit, and WILL NOT immediately pull him out on the sabbath day??

I say that Jesus is showing us that Church or Sabbath happens when it happens. If you work on weekends and can't get off; if your Church holds services on Wednesday or another weekday; then you can attend on those days.

God knows your intentions and He knows what days you work. If a fellow church member needs corporate prayer, you'll be available on Wednesdays.

If He makes exceptions for donkeys and cows, why would He not bless you for assembling together on a Wednesday?

Underline passages where you see that Pharisee-like plots were foiled by a loving and practical Son of God.

If you tithe...do it with bliss and happiness on Wednesday.

where in the bible that it show Jesus change the Sabbath to Sunday worship

Jayden, there are usually two ways that the Bible looked upon. One is for its historical value & for a cursory look for interest's sake. The Bible is rich in history of course, where information & detail is given that is unavailable from other documents or books. So there is value there.

However, & secondly, for those who are Christians & those seeking to know more about God, His Ways, & dealings in Earth's affairs, the Bible becomes invaluable. The Bible shows us God's love for His creation & His provision for us (both physically & spiritually). It answers most of the questions we have about life & death & gives answers & illustrations of those who have gone through similar struggles to us with temptations & hardships in life. If you think of any question you have about a struggle you might have or a family situation, the Bible will have an answer for you. If you don't read the Bible or you lower its importance in your life, then you won't have God's Mind & Answer for you. Your answer will need to come from within yourself or from another; & there is a much greater risk of being led astray or not being satisfied.

His Word is no ordinary Book. It was written of course by the hand of men, but the Bible tells us that they were led by God's Spirit to write; 2 Peter 1:20,21: speaks of Prophecy (messages of future events, of which the Bible has many). And some of these prophecies have been fulfilled already, & some are awaiting fulfilment. The Word of God is like my daily Handbook, referred to more than any other material available on my bookshelf. Please spend much time in reading it, & what you don't understand, ask here or at your Church, etc. It is the most important Book you will ever own or read.

Jayden,

I think it is important to read the bible in order to grow spiritually in Christ. Growth comes through continuous reading and studying of the scripture. Also, without reading the bible, how are we to know if what we are being taught is true? We have to search the scriptures in order to test all things to see if what is presented to us is the truth. It's just like exercising, if we don't exercise, eventually our muscles will weaken. We grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ through a continuous study of His word. There can be no growth without reading and studying. In fact, the bible tells us that when we leave off from studying God's word, we become dull of hearing. In other words, there will be no growth, and the things we learned and once knew, we will begin to forget. That is why I feel it's important to stay in the word.

The Bible is our daily bread. It help us grow spiritually as a Christian. We need to feed on it daily and master it and help us to know God more deeply

Why is it important to read the bible

Reading Ezekiel 28:12-19, Matthew 25:41, Hebrews 2:14 and Revelation 20:10, it is apparent that the end of Satan is destruction in the lake of fire. There is no savior for fallen angels. Thank the LORD that he so loved us and provided his Son Jesus Christ to pay the penalty for our sin.

Satan was lucifer the archangel so he has all the attributes of angels as he was one. he probably flew, swam, was on top of the ark, Really what does it matter anyway, he is so evil and we should not focus on him. but here is some scripture Isaiah 14:12-15 2 Corinthians 11:14 Ezekiel 28:17 Ezekiel 28:15 1 Peter 5:8