Discuss Genesis 19 Page 2

Thank you, Richard. I'm still confused but I will meditate on the things written in this discussion thread.

Your analogies all were as the parable of the sower. Those who have the seed stolen by Satan never really hear it; those who hear and immediately fall away when trials come are as you would say "blew it off" and the third those who knew it and "chucked it" as it were when the riches and snares of this life choked out the effectiveness. The problem with this analogy is that is a bit oversimplistic; in that we all start off with hearing the Word; and go through testings of the temptations of this world; the flesh and the devil. Those who are of "His seed" who endure until the end have the Spirit chastising those who are truly His own. Those who are saved truly are dead to their old selves and eventually produce some fruit; but some are clearly recieving rewards to a greater or lesser extent; and some are saved as through the fire.

Of course; there are those like Judas Iscariot who were part of His ministry; but never really with Him; because they were in it for other reasons than loving God. Any spiritual "experience" that is above the giver of gifts that is desired leaves one open to the "angel of light" Satan Himself. God can perhaps heal someone through a miracle despite the fact that some either deliberately fabricate miracles for financial gain; or are directly infested with demons that for a time seem to work wonders. You shall know them by their fruits (Matth. 7:16-22). I would state clearly that anyone who is living in a state of unrepentant sin cannot simultaneously do works of righteousness. Many are also in churches as a pride thing; family loyalty; socializing; or to make themselves feel good about themselves that they've "done their duty."

The clearest thing I can say that is in God's presence; which often means being around those TRULY filled with the Spirit of God; sin, righteousness and judgment to come ( John 16:8) is made clear; and we are driven to a godly sorrow leading to repentance. ( 2 Cor. 7:10). God will reveal this to you

Thank you Dgjot, I share similar sentiments to you. Yet, I'm comforted knowing that whatever evil there may be around me or of the plans & devices of wicked men against me, the Lord truly is in full knowledge & control over the situation. We should not be unduly weighed down in mind & spirit of 'what could happen'. Rather, our hearts must be raised above what we see or don't see on Earth and raised to see the Lord of Heaven who promises us His Care: 2 Thessalonians 3:2,3; Psalm 18:2-6; Psalm 32:5-7;

Psalm 125:1; Proverbs 18:10, are a few verses that should encourage all of us.

We can indeed be bold, going forth in the Name of the Lord. Until we go out in faith, facing the enemy & his followers head on with the Love & Grace of the Lord, we will never fully know or experience the Lord's Arm of Salvation. This is not the time to live in fear, but to wisely use the time the Lord gives us to stand bodly for Him & exude His Righteousness amongst a people who have no knowledge or desire for it. There may be evil intent from some, but "Fear ye not, stand still, and see the salvation of the LORD, which he will shew to you to day", even as the Lord opened up the way (the Red Sea) for His children to pass over ( Exodus 14:13,14). The Lord has all of Heaven's resources ready to come to our aid - only faith can take hold of them & release them, that we might all stand in awe of the Lord of Glory.

And yes, we need to exercise great care when seeing God's Work before us. Many saw it in that day but accused Jesus of working by the power of Satan. There's no hope for those who continually refuse God or acknowledge His Mercy shown to them & others. We should not be hasty in condemning a work we may know very little about - maybe doing so to our hurt.

"......His wife sort of represents the parable where Jesus said that

he who turned his back on the plow was unworthy ( Luke 9:62)....

Those who are caught up with the cares of this life; and ensnared by riches will never produce fruit and therefore are unsaved according to the parable of the sower. "

Define "unsaved". Do you mean someone who heard the Gospel and rejected it right away or heard it and blew it off or are you talking about people who knew the truth and then totally chucked it and went back to their old, sinful ways?

Many "christians" have the appearance of Godliness (like going to Church every Sunday, or going to/having Bible studies,

or bragging about how much they fast and pray, or do good deeds to be seen by men, or get a high by "speaking in tongues"

or ......)

Matthew 7:20-23

20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Just what is, "doing the will of my Father which is in heaven."??

I'm confused.

There is an excellent tract called "Remember Lot's Wife" in the Chapel Library series. Well worth reading. 2 Peter 2:7-8 indicates that Lot was righteous; even if he wasn't at the maturity level of Abraham listed in Hebrews 11. Clearly; Lot was compromised offering his own daughters to appease those who wanted to molest the angels (who appeared as men). He and his wife; no doubt were enticed by the fertile land of the valley as opposed to where Abraham ended up in tents. He was hesitant leaving; and after the angels finally prodded him; he left town but wanted to stop short of the mountains. Finally; after God's patience was demonstrated-the event occurred and then he was afraid to remain where he originally requested and fled to the mountains.

His wife sort of represents the parable where Jesus said that he who turned his back on the plow was unworthy ( Luke 9:62). Those who are caught up with the cares of this life; and ensnared by riches will never produce fruit and therefore are unsaved according to the parable of the sower. As to her eternal fate; I am not entirely sure it can be determined.

As to the daughters; their fear was that perhaps the whole world was destroyed. They got their father drunk; which wasn't exactly the same as seducing them out of fear of no offspring. It is possible at that time also there was no rule set about having such relations; if it is a sin it is not on the level with their son in laws who likely were engaged to them only at the time and disgracefully acted like the angels were mocking them. It should also be remembered that the rampant sexual behavior probably made eligible men a rarity in that region.

In any case; this incident shows us that some escape as through the fire and others are wise enough to be taken out as Enoch and Elijah. May we be the same at the rapture. God knows what He is doing; thankfully all those who are in Him will be saved. Let us be careful not to lose our rewards- Rev. 3:11

@Chris

Thank you. I go nuts thinking about things like this. When Jesus walked among us, and the Jews saw his miracles first hand, they accused Him of doing miracles by the power of the devil. (Is that what blasphemy-against-the-Holy-Spirit is??)

All of us born after Jesus ascended into heaven long to see some sort of miracle, but WE live by faith. Not by sight. Sometimes I get discouraged. I want the idol worshipping, rebellious, wicked reprobates to STOP what they are doing, but nobody down here is able to stop them. Prison and the death penalty are looked at as too inhumane, so murderers and rapists are allowed to go free.

Ecclesiastes 8:11

Because sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily, therefore the heart of the sons of men is fully set in them to do evil.



It's to the point where I'm afraid to leave my house and afraid to stay in it. Know-what-I-mean?

Hi Dgjot. Nice to see you back here again. I've also thought about the question you ask. I feel that it's because God won't judge us for what we might do in the future (i.e. our future sins don't stand under His Judgement), but that present sins are accountable & stand under His Judgement. Lot's wife & daughters were willing to leave Sodom as directed by the angels; so some faith in God's Directive is seen here. But it wasn't long before Mrs. Lot "looked back" to where her heart was longing to be, & then later, Lot's daughters succumb to the need "to preserve seed of our father", having no family to take into the future. It says a 'lot' about how as believers we need to be watchful for entrance of sin into our lives, and also to be content with what we have (meaning, that we shouldn't feel pressured to 'keep up with the Jones' ') & living with the health & material blessings we do have, however, minimal they might be.

2Peter 3:9, Exodus 34:6, Numbers 14:18, Genesis 19:37, Deuteronomy 23:3,

Ecclesiastes 7:8, Psalms 86:15, Romans 2:4, 1Corinthians 4:5, Ruth 1:16,22, Ruth 4:11-22, Luke 3:23-38, note Luke 3:32

Psalms 130:3,4, Isaiah 54:8,

LORD help us all be faithful

Why didn't the Angels just take Lot and leave his wife and daughters behind? The husbands of the daughters chose to stay.

The wife "looked back" (symbolic of yearning for the old way of life) and was turned into a pillar of salt.

The daughters, who had just been pulled out of Sodom by the hands by Angels, didn't have enough faith to believe God would find them husbands, and seduced their father.

"Abraham believed God and it was reckoned to him as righteousness."

Jesus said, "....blessed are those who believe but have not seen."

How could people be so faithless when they've seen God or Jesus in action?????

Dear "Somefair" you have right the pure of heart shall see God. Matthew 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.

Exodus 33:20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.

(Here we are reminded of God's Holiness again).

Colossians 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. Think what Jesus has done for us? Jesus loves us all, and i love u all in Christ.

Genesis 19:9And when ye reap the harvest of your land, thou shalt not wholly reap the corners of thy field, neither shalt thou gather the gleanings of thy harvest.

(We should always think about what is best for our neighbor).

Romans 12:10 Be kindly affectioned one to another with brotherly love; in honour preferring one another;

Proverbs 4:23 Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life. Amen

1 Corintihans 15

Genesis 19:4-11

4 But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter:

5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.

6 And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him,

7 And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly.

8 Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.

9 And they said, Stand back. And they said again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door.

10 But the men put forth their hand, and pulled Lot into the house to them, and shut to the door.

11 And they smote the men that were at the door of the house with blindness, both small and great: so that they wearied themselves to find the door.

Homosexuality is not a good thing, although so many in the world around us insist it is. They are deceived and their support for wickedness will not end well for them.

The story of Lot's escape and in fact the theme of this whole chapter is the pathetic example of Lot; who is amazingly described in the New Testament as a rightous man; in fact who was "tormented" seeing what was going on in that city. It is hard to escape the Laodicean parallel here of those who think they have need of nothing; but are poor; miserable; blind and naked.

Verse 8 with the response to the hordes of Sodomite ready to rape the angels and Lot himself is just disgusting. His "consolation prize" of the two daughters; already at least espoused if not married to other men to save his integrity was perhaps known to be a ruse to all parties concerned; he must have known they weren't interested in natural relations with women. Nonetheless; it demonstrates weak character.

Things don't get any better afterwards either. Lot diddle dalleys around and finally he and his family are taken by the hand and pretty much dragged out of town. Then comes the pathetic request to go to Zoar; despite the clear command to go to the mountains which amazingly the Lord allows the angels to permit. Finally comes Lot's wife turning back just when she almost escaped and dying. After all that it appears Lot was shocked enough to leave for the mountains after all afraid that God may destroy that city as well I would suspect. Finally; the daughters losing hope of having children by any man (thinking perhaps all men were dead in that part of the world) got their father drunk one by one and indeed got pregnant. Apparently, the wine was an important commodity and it would appear Lot was in the habit of drinking too much as a result; no doubt of living in a place like Sodom. Let us be thankful here for the grace of God; for those who seem too far gone in sin can be VERY backslidden believers; sometimes only God knows but eventually He chastises all those He loves.

Deuteronomy 9:3, Psalms 106:23, Genesis 19:13,

Matthew 5:17, Hebrews 2:14, Revelation 20:14,

Hopefully these are helpful.

Please read Genesis 5:1-2, Genesis 1:26-30, here it states plural. It also reasonably suggests multiple to subdue the entire earth. Genesis 1:26, Genesis 1:28,

Genesis 2:15, was this a separated man? If GOD had already told mankind to subdue the entire earth? Would HE really take him then to dress & tend a special garden HE had made? Or is this symbolic of the Church._. Ezekiel 28:12-15, Ezekiel 31:8-9, Isaiah 58:11, Isaiah 61:11, Joel 2:3? Many times Jesus refers to the "vine dresser", the "stewards", seeds, etc. Luke 13:17, Luke 13:18-21, * John 15:1,5, & many times it's about unfaithfulness of that stewardship many times relating to the "Church" & those in charge. Luke 16:2, Ironic Jesus also being crucified by Garden, John 19:41, & where Jesus was betrayed, bound, taken captive, John 18:26,27, John 18:1-12,

Genesis 4:1-16, note Genesis 4:14,

Then you have an unreasonable fear of being killed by vengeance which was completely irrational if there was only Adam & Eve. There in that family -2 mourning the murdered child & 1 on the run. Then you have the outrageous idea that those same two parents would give a daughter to the murderer who already disregarded his brother's life to kill him. Gross, perverted imagination!! Genesis 4:16-17 then he built a city. Genesis 19:4-25, why isn't man killed mentioned? Then Seth's birth.

The importance of the lineage of Adam & Eve was it led to the Messiah Jesus CHRIST. Luke 3:22-38. Therefore when Eve is called the mother of all living CHRIST even addressed this as "let the dead bury the dead" pointing to spiritual death. Note it doesn't say Eve was of "life" it said mother of living._Genesis 3:20..Note also the day they would surely "die"! Genesis 2:17. Genesis 3:6-8, fear of (death?) eternal judgement? What happened? If it wasn't a spiritual death? Genesis 3:10, loss of fellowship, trust, intimacy even in marriage that's sometimes referred to "death, of the marriage"

Genesis 6:1-6, Gen 6:6, "earth" not "garden"

God bless Jocelynnne Mathew 18:2-3 And Jesus called a little child unto him,and set him in the midst of them,3 And said Verily I say unto you,Except ye be converted,and become as little children,ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.We have grandchildren that have drawn pictures in the books it was so special.But they do need mature guidance.One of the poems was written to our grandchildren in the second book.Grandparents house.

Jocelynne Bell I thought quite a bit about this and considered these Numbers 23:19 and 1 Kings 8:56 the

same thing applies to us in our day and time, His Word believed or not Will never Fail!

Sorry that was my sibling. She's 10

God bless Jocelyn Go to youtube search jcbu undercover angel light you decide update There is a 3 min video Leave a comment a prayer.Have a blessed day.

Jocelynne Bell,

Only the Father knows the day Jesus will return, Mark 13:32, we are told to watch Matthew 25:13. How do we know Jesus died in the first place, we look back, God said 100s of years before it would happen. Isaiah 7:14 Scripture points to how he will be born, and also to one of the names given to Christ: Immanuel, Matthew 1:23. Micah 5:2 This scripture tells where He will be born and from what tribe, which was Judah, Matthew 2:5 Luke 2:4.

Psalm 22:7-8 This scripture tells how they will ridicule Him, Matthew 27:40-43. Psalm 22:16-18 the same refers to the actual crucifixion of Christ, Matthew 27:35,39,41,49. Isaiah 53:5 tells they will pierce Him for our transgressions, and by his wounds, we are healed, John 19:34.

I could list more scripture that was written 100s of years before that is clear that it was Jesus our savior that was told of before and what would happen to Him, and we can be sure He will return the same way as He ascended Acts 1:10-11 Revelation 1:7

God bless and have faith; If prophecy told it would happen 100s of years before and it happened have no doubt it is true. He is coming back and will set the kingdom upon the earth.

RLW

Jocelynne Bell Being born again because that would be impossible unless Jesus Christ died resurrected and

Sat at Gods Right hand completing His Ministry and also the proof is manifesting that spiritual power given of christ

one of those being speaking in tongues one of the evidences. It would be impossible to do that same with all the

others. All this is part of the witness of the resurrection! Blessed are those who have not seen and believe!

Before he was resurrected in Mathew 27:62-66 the bad guys ask pilate to post guards and to seal the tomb and

in Mathew 8:11-15 when it was reported that he was missing the soldiers were paid off to lie and say His body

was stolen. Still nothing Will ever stop Gods Will being done, even in our lives when we rise up and believe.

You could be sure if you googled:

"King James Bible, History"

The Gospels were written by 4 of Jesus's Disciples. Peter wrote some, Paul, 1-2-3 John, Jude (Jesus' 1/2 brother), and others who traveled with Jesus.

Eyewitness accounts should count for Truth.

People say to me all the time: well why doesn't Jesus do something like split the Red Sea again, or split some lake in the USA?!

That's not going to convince you. Almost everyone in here has been born again and tells their own testimonies of how they came to believe. There's even a link on the Red Link Page named: TESTIMONIES. Another link is called BECOME A BELIEVER, so you can see what that involves.

What do you have FAITH in? Make a list. Sometimes it's helpful.

2 Peter chapter 3 says that this world as we know it is going to be burned up. God I'd going to cleanse all the harm that mankind has damaged it with.

ITS NOT GLOBAL WARMING. The earth is responding to what scripture says is going to happen. No amount of money can save this earth. Politicians know there's a problem; they just don't want to believe God is going to do it.

I want to CHALLENGE you to listen to a sermon from one of my preacher friends. He's from Texas; a lot older now (like me) but this sermon may change your mind?

YouTube Search: Dwight Thompson

The video to choose is: 1hour and 55 minutes

Title: the Rapture and What To Do If You Miss It?

Like me, he's an old Evangelist. He can get loud, but he's gonna give it to you straight, no frills.

I'm praying for you to find faith in the Son of God, Jesus, before it's too late. May the Holy Spirit watch the video with you. Amen

I know this has nothing to do with Genesis, but I didn't know if I can ask questions from my heart, but if we don't know when the Lord is going to come to earth, which I know is called Judgement Day, how do we know he died in the first place?

Sometimes the Lord has us pray and witness for years and years before we get the privilege of seeing our prayers answered. Other times we pray and pray and may not see the answer in this lifetime. I know people who have prayed for unsaved loved ones up until they died and then after that event the answer to prayer comes to the one prayed for.

I prayed for 35 years for one person to get help for bi-polar disorder. He was involved in criminal matters and crimes against persons. He should have been in prison for some of these offenses and there he would have been forced into a treatment plan. Finally God had him meet a woman who convinced him to get treatment and after getting treatment, they married when he was about 50. He continues in treatment and has not had terrible episodes like in the past since beginning treatment.

Thank you GiGi for sharing those very intimate matters. Maybe, there's a lot we don't understand & we just have to be there to pray, guide & counsel, as we're led or allowed to. May the Lord minister in & through you as you have opportunity to meet with your sisters. The Lord can & does move in 'mysterious ways' & we must but trust Him for 'His wonders to perform'.

Thanks Chris,

I really can't say what influenced my sisters or how it came about that the enemy deceived them. I also know of a friends in laws, the dad is a pastor and one son is in ministry, but a sister and brother are homosexuals. They probably had a loving upbringing in a Christian home and still they were drawn into the lifestyle. Some things we will not be able to know but we can continue to pray and stand firm. Over the years my sisters have not had much to do with me because they know of my strong faith. One year, my sister who is 16 months older than me called me out of the blue and wanted to meet with me. We met and she shared that it bothered her that I could not accept her relationship with her partner, since I had declined to attend a commitment ceremony for their 25th yr. together, and I wrote why I could not attend.

We had a good discussion. much was said that got a lot of things out inn the open. We then meet monthly for dinner for a year or so to get to know each other more since we are sisters. She mentioned how nervous she was to first try to get to know me , but that now after she knew me better she realized I was a very kindhearted person and "safe" for her even though I still said I would continue to pray for her. (she did not like that) We now see each other a few times a year, but not as I would someone who shares my faith in Christ. My other two sisters have never initiated a conversation with me about their lifestyle and I have not spoken to them about it. I think it is up to them to reveal things to me. I am sure they feel uncomfortable about doing that and are concerned about what I might say. I treat them kindly when we have family events,, but don't feel right about entering their home or being very relational with them unless they would ask for it. I am sure they have talked with my other sister about our meetings that took place 15 years ago. It's different and I try to follow the lead of the Spirit only in interacting or not

Yes, David, I agree it is wholly spiritual. With today's society being so much open to "different" lifestyles, I can see that people are being led into these deceptive and degrading lifestyles more than in the time my sisters grew into adulthood. "cool" to be in such lifestyles and "special". So sad. It is very difficult for people to leave this lifestyle to follow Jesus once they have developed their identity in it. Sodom shows us that.

That was so sad to read GiGi about your sisters. I've not had much experience in dealing with those who have homosexual tendencies, though from what I've observed, there has usually been some tragedy that they have faced, or an environment that caused them to be drawn to those of the same gender, or even a very strong continuous grooming to that end, with experimentation. I would even think that facing rejection or abuse might cause one to 'turn', but I couldn't conceive that one born into this world normally & given a good balanced love-filled life, would one day decide to turn to the other gender. I can't even envisage that this would be a matter of choice such as in choosing what clothes to wear tomorrow, rather of some turmoil in the life that has caused one's affections to go in such manner. But I've never studied this, so my comments are simply my own & to be taken as such. Though it's remarkable that all three of your older siblings have gone that way - there maybe a common thread in there somewhere.

But if we are continually faced with worldly offerings & our peers or the majority voice are readily accepting them, then it would take a very strong character with godly principles to withstand or even giving them any concession. And with the majority who might ridicule the resistant one, the pressure & pain becomes even worse. Praise God for His Word which reveals His Mind & so we know that our stand against evil has His affirmation, which gives us boldness & confidence.

Homosexuality is spiritual in nature nobody is born that way and it is not genetic this is a lie of the world I know of a few believers that got delivered from that stuff. Something to always keep in mind we wrestle not against flesh and blood Ephesians 6:12 it is always spiritual in nature also 2 Corinthians 4:18.

Thanks for your thoughts. After posting this I read the the gates of the city was just what you said. Lot may have lived inside the city walls or outside. In excavating the site that is thought to be Sodom, there was found settlement both Inside the walls and outside. I am sure Lot began to slowly compromise his viewpoints and actions the longer he stayed with these people. I see that in my Mom and her views about homosexuality over the years due to spending time with my sisters who and their partners. When I was a teenager, she believed homosexuality is sinful, but now after so many years of interacting with my lesbian sisters, she has compromised her viewpoint. Granted, my sisters have many good qualities and have been very helpful to my Mom. So, now, in her later years (she just turned 88) she states the oft spoken "I think they were born that way." I continue to pray for my sisters and Mom. There whole personage is wrapped up in this identity. To turn away from it would mean leaving their spouse and forsaking who they have been for 50+ years. This is a big spiritual struggle. I have yet to meet a family that has three homosexual members like mine. Family gatherings happen and we attend for my Mom's sake). But my younger siblings and I talk to each other about how uncomfortable we are around our sisters, especially when their spouses attend. Just kind of weird to me, but i am thankful that I have been spared this influence when I in my teen years and more so that I was a strong believer and God has used me to be one who stands in the gap for my family for all these years.

They have found what apparently is the pillar of salt and in that location because of the deposits left in the area brimstone and evidence of ground incineration from a cataclysmic event. In addition they have also found the remnants of noahs ark.