Discuss Genesis 19 Page 3

Thanks Chris,

I am not very informed about customs from this area of the world now or in the past.

I had never thought about Lot having four daughters, but I can see that possibility.

Maybe the married daughters would not leave if their husbands said "no"

Lots daughters sleeping with there father is Sodom and Gomorrah influence rubbing off. You can't hang in garbage for that long and not get stinky so to speak. That's their unbelief coming out also Sodom and Gomorrah also practiced beastiality and incest not good.

I understand that when "Lot sat in the gate of Sodom" ( Genesis 19:1), this was a significant place for administration, welcoming visitors, or for policing/judgement. I've thought of Lot as having integrated himself well into that society & even risen to a level of holding a venerable position before its citizens. One can compare the use of the 'gate' in 2 Samuel 19:8; Esther 5:13; Psalm 69:12; Proverbs 22:22.

And in truth, the sins of Sodom were probably far more rampant in its many forms & intensities, that would have moved God in such a mighty way against that city's inhabitants. And even today, peoples & governments all over the world scoff & scorn the Word of God & the coming Day of Great Wrath upon them. Man will never learn, 'professing themselves to be wise, they showed themselves, fools'.

In eastern culture, the guest is given a highly honourable status, even higher than members of the family. In very 'traditional' families in India & Pakistan, the guest(s) will eat only with the man of the house (& maybe his sons) - the women & children will only eat later of the food that is remaining. If the men have been ravenous, the women would have to do without. And of course, the guest is always served first, having first choice of the food presented to him. So, we can well understand Lot's singular focus to ensure the safety & happiness of these divine guests. Yet, as you wrote, "such a sad offer" by Lot in presenting his daughters; if he was entirely noble & caring for his family, he should have rather offered himself.

And to note, I assume that Lot had at least four daughters: two married to his sons & the two virgins living with their parents & who were offered to the 'beasts of Sodom'. So, not only Lot's sons-in-law, but also their wives may have disbelieved this angelic warning & rather stay in the city to which their hearts were completely devoted.

With all this said, the two sons born to these daughters grew to become two nations that relentlessly opposed the lineage of Abraham. Is this because they were very aware of that Abraham's lineage was the covenant people and they were excluded? Were they envious of God's special favor upon Abraham's descendants, since they were Abraham's relatives through Lot? This seems to repeat with Ishmael and Esau. They just couldn't stand that they were not included in God's covenant. And so, they turned to wickedness rather than seeking God.

Many people have made many comments concerning homosexuality. My three older siblings are homosexuals. This sinful deception stopped with me and my younger siblings and myself are hetero. I was unaware of my older siblings lifestyle at first, but once I was out of college I figured it out. I often asked "Why God guarded me and not them". It seems He set me apart for a reason. I was glad I was not very close to these sisters and so I did not hang out with the people they did when they were teens. That sphere of people were an influence on them to pursue this lifestyle. Many were the same age as my sisters or older. They are still friends with many of these people to this day after 50+ years.

I think that homosexuality is planted into innocent, vulnerable, impressionable young people by the devil through people who groom them or have similar feelings in common. That is what I saw with my sisters. When I recall the times (the 70's) and the situation (good athletes they played sports with) it was a ripe situation. When they were in junior high and high school, girls who excelled at athletics were seen as unsuitable to have as a girlfriend. So, they were not sought after by the boys around them. Other than basketball and tennis, they participated in other sports outside of high school. It was in these outside situations that they met their "mentors". My parents had no clue that this was the case.

I have always prayed for them over the years

to continue: If lot's wife had simply died and decayed in that place. Lot could have come back and buried her, therefore eliminating the graphic, and tangible reminder of why God destroyed the cities of the plain. To me, I don't see any significance of her being made into salt. But I'm open for someone's input from research. From what I understand, it is believed that Sodom and Gomorrah are submerged beneath the Dead Sea, which is exceedingly saline. People float in this sea due to the buoyance of the salt in the water. How apropos that the sea is named the "Dead" sea and that it is full of salt. There must have been a great deal of salt in the hail and brimstone! The destruction was so intense that Abraham could see the smoke from the mountain where he had his tent home. He probably wondered about Lot. Was he safe?

Interesting that he went back to the place where he stood with the Lord to view the event that day.

It doesn't say if the mountain cave that Lot and his daughters was near to Abraham or not. I think it was further east. It is apparent that they did not feel very safe even in the mountains. They must have felt alone, but did not want to return to Zoar, which was spared. then, his daughters hatched a plan that they knew their father would never go along with. Lot made a mistake to drink with his daughters two nights in a row. They must have been traumatized, which can lead people to make irrational choices, overlooking the sinfulness of these choices. The daughters engaged in incest with their fathers. They didn't think that they would find anyone to carry on the family line. They didn't wait on God, like Sarah and Abraham with Hagar. I do not know what they meant by "as is the custom of all of the earth". Did it refer that the custom was that of sexual union between a man and woman, unlike the people of Sodom and Gomorrah or the customs was for daughters to have relations with their father in order to continue to lineage if the father had no sons.

to continue: the townsmen were now determined to deal more harshly with Lot than they had hoped to be with the visitors. They were going to sexually assault Lot in a worse way. Thankfully, the angels knew what the men were set to do and pulled Lot back inside and secured the door. Next, an effort was made to convince other family members to flee with them. They declined. Most likely they were born and raised in this city. They though Lot was joking. They were scoffers. They were obviously not concerned about the safety of their brides to be or Lot and his wife from the mob. Perhaps they were even a part of the mob. Must have been sad for Lot and family to realize that they would not heed their warning and go with them. I love that the text said the the Lord was merciful to this family.

When morning came, the angels said. "Hurry!" They stalled a bit too long and the angels had to grab them by their hands and pull them out of the city. Once outside the angels said that destruction was imminent and they needed to flee in order to escape for their lives and not be consumed. They implored Lot and family to go all the way to the mountains. Lot expressed a preference to go to another city in the plain instead. The angels brought them to this city, Zoar, but the devastation was going to be so extensive that they did need to flee to the mountains after all. On the way out of Zoar, the hail and brimstone began to rain down. They were warned not to look back, but Lot's wife did. I think it was really hard not to look back when disaster is on your heels. Unfortunately for Lot's wife, she was turned into an pillar of salt.

I wonder if anyone has found this pillar of salt in this area from any archeological digs. Anyone know? Some people ask why a pillar of salt? I think that the pillar of salt was God's reminder to God's people not to sin as those in Sodom and Gomorrah did. Lot's stone wife was a memorial stone.

The two angels were holy angels, not fallen, so would not have anything to do with the people of these cities. They were there to rescue the remnant of God's people, Lot and family, no one else, even the the angels mentioned sons and sons-in -law. These men did not wish to come with Lot and the women. The angels had to forcibly take Lot and the women out of the city,, taking them by the hand and compelling them to flee. Perhaps Lot and family were concerned about family members being left behind. maybe they wanted to plead with them more. The sinfulness of the city vexed Lot, so I don't think it was the city people he didn't want to leave, but members of his family who refused to agree to go with them. They mocked him.

Going back to the arrival of the angels and the shouts of the men of the city to have access to the visitors and violate them sexually. Rightly, Lot refused. these people were trying to force their way into Lot's home. He tried to appease them by offering his daughters for them to violate. (Such a sad offer!) He was desperate. He knew the visitors were holy angels and valued their purity over his daughters. Some will disagree with me, but he was right to want to preserve the integrity of the angels, but wrong to offer his daughters. It is easy during a siege to make rational decisions. he probably regretted offering his daughters but was thankful the men declined. He did not realize that the angels can take care of themselves without his help. I think he was unaware of their power. But these holy beings shut the door and secured it against a mob and blinded the members of the group outside so that they could not find the door. I think that is significant. Their blindness made it so that they could not find the door. Also, Just as God had shut Noah up in the ark, these angels shut Lot's family up in his house by which they escaped the deluge of wicked men. The townsmen were outraged that Lot would try to judge them since he was an outsider.

Greetings in the name of Jesus, our Lord, The Holy One of Israel;

I have read all of the comments on this chapter and admit that this is a disturbing chapter. But then again, should it be more disturbing to us that in Genesis when Adam and Eve sinned? No, not really. However, are the sins of Sodom and Gomorah grave sins? Yes! Primarily, the sin of homosexuality. The text highlights this sin when God was ready to bring judgement on these cities. Some asked why Lot was sitting at the gates to the city. I think that his home was most likely outside of the gates of the city. he was in a way "separated" from the inhabitants of the city. I think at first when me chose these plains to live and tend his flocks, Lot continued in the ways of the faith that Abraham brought him up in under Abraham's guardianship. These people lived in tends and travelled around the area to keep their flocks fed and watered. At some point Lot built a house and settled near the gates of the city. He began to know of the ways of these cities and it grieved him. He may have witnessed to the people of these cities, but they didn't heed his preaching and devised more ways to be wicked. Yet, Lot decided to stay instead of shaking the dust off of his sandals and moving to another city in the plains. he did not remove his family from the wicked influences of these places. He failed a as a patriarch in this way and I'm sure was torn between living for God and keeping his family unaffected by the wicked ways of these people and trying to make a living among them. I don't think that Lot ever participated in the sin of homosexuality. It doesn't say where and when he found his wife and married her. Was she from these cities? She wasn't from the kin of Abraham because Abraham did not have an heir until Ishmael was born and he was still a youth. Maybe he went back to Haran to take a wife from their kin like Isaac and Jacob did. We don't know. And his daughter's husbands? Where from? Sodom.

Pedophilia people, zoophilia people, furries gays, and clothing optonal people are not Sodomites. They are wanting one person to be a condeming judge.

Proverbs 3:32-34

King James Version

32 For the froward is abomination to the Lord: but his secret is with the righteous. Genesis 19:9 9And they said, Stand back. And they said again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door. 2 Peter 2:7

"And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:"

King James Version. Proverbs 3:32: For the froward is abomination to the Lord: but his secret is with the righteous." People are froward - forceful with their words and actions to spesific people. Matthew 11:12

"And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force." People are forceful toward the people I mentioned. Islamic People don't like what I teach. The catholic church does not say what I teach. Pedophilia people are not like either one of them. Whatever you do unto the least of these my brethren, you are doing it unto me. Romans 12:2

"And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God." People s think God's will is: You are associated with that name: die, or you are a pedophile or a sex offender, when a young person just so happens to see parts, that made their life to be a reality.,

The expression:" God's wrath Day ", in Zephaniah, chapter 1 verse 18, raises a very important matter, about truth and God's character. Men tend to anthropomorphize God, despite bible's teaching, clearly establishing the primacy of God's nature, singularity and unique features. This is abundantly evident in the beauty and harmony of creation.

The bible simple forbidds men's jugment, reggarding one another, wich implies,also, not juging God!

God through Zephaniah, warn's human kind, about Life's seriousness, facing the fact that God has to be impartial towards all the inhabitants of the Universe, and determine one day, to put an end to evil, suffering and death, for ever.

Love implies mercy and justice, otherwise, woul be a blind love. God gives us life and a brain, to obtain not just knowledge, but also wisdom! If parents had just a blind love, wouldn't it be harmfull to their children?

Wouldn't it be,also, disastrous to all inteligent beings in the Universe, if GOD was just merciful and not fair, in perpetuating evil, with all his consequences, eternally.

That's why GOD is willing to sacrifice Himself, according to His mercy and justice!

It's written: God was at the cross, hiding His presence in dark clouds.The Bible establishes the unity of God, in three distinct entities! (see genesis 19:24)

Before the Creation of inteligent, thougtfull individuals, He had already decided to die as a man, for, not only men's sake, but also in behalf of all the intelligent Universe.

I would suffer for a while, than not being alive, at all.

The process of giving birth can be painful, but I'm thankful to my mother and GOD for seeing the light and being alive, than instead being an abortion. It's written that God, is God of the living, not of the dead! For God, those who died in christ, live, as if they had been already ressurected. The dead in Christ, will ressurect first, with a glorious body, like Him, and will live in a perfect, eternaly happy knew Earth and Universe.

Manuel marques teixeira on Zephaniah 1

THe expression Gods wrath Day, in Zephaniah, chapter 1 verse 18, raises a very important subject, about the truth and Gods character, because man tend to anthropomorfisize God, despite the bible, that clearly establishes the the primacy of Gods nature, singularity and unic features of Gods character.

The bible also simple forbidens mans jugment, reggarding other man, wich implies not juging God!

Personaly, I dont have questions about Gods wrath Day, because I also know that the essence of Gods character is love, and as parens should do, GOD is warning His sons about Lifes seriousness.

Love implies mercy and justice, otherwise, woul be a blind love. God gives us life and a brain, to obtain not just knowledge, but also wisdom! If parents had just a blind love, woudnt it be be armfull to children? no doubt about that! It would be disastrous to all inteligent beings in the entire Universe, if GOD wast JUST merciful and not Fair.

Thats why GOD is willing to sacrifice Himself, for His Principles, according to His loving imparcial, nature and charecter!

It's written: God was at the cross, hiding His presence in dark clouds.The Bible reveals that and establishis the unity of God in three distint persons! (see genesis 19:24)

Before the Creation of inteligent, thougtfull, and individual minds, He had previously decided to die as a man for, not only man's sake, but also in behalf of the entire Universe.

I rather want suffering a while, than not to come to life.

The process of giving birth can be painful, but I'm thankfull to my mother and GOD for seing the light being alive, than becoming an abortion. It's written tht God is God of the living, and not the dead, as for god those who died in christ, is as if are already alive. The dad in Christ willressurect, to be like the angels of God, living in a Perfect, eternaly Happy earth and Universe.

Genesis 19:4-26 But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter: And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.

Romans 1:24-32 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. 28And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; 29Being filled with all unrighteousness,

Colossians 3:5 "Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:"

Sir Here's a few Romans 1:24-28, Genesis 19: Story of sodom and Gomorrah, there's others if interested in Exodus and leviticus.

Hello Debra. Here's a few for you to look up, both commands & illustrations against deviant behaviour:

Genesis 19:1-8

Leviticus 18:22

Leviticus 20:13

Deuteronomy 23:17

Judges 19:16-25

Romans 1:24-27

1 Corinthians 6:9,10

1 Timothy 1:9,10

Jude 7

courage faith George

Moab at that time was located on the east of the Dead Sea. Moab was the son of the illicit union of Lot & his eldest daughter ( Genesis 19:30-38). The Moabites, as with the others inhabiting the land of Canaan, were those that Israel would eventually have to war with, to conquer & capture their lands, as promised by God. So the Moabites were already known by Moses, & Moses with the children of Israel, sang this song ( Exodus 15) remembering their flight from the tyranny of Pharaoh & the future dread by the inhabitants in Canaan as the Lord their God went before them. So the reputation of the "mighty (strong, fierce) men of Moab" would have been known to Moses but they went on in their march towards the promised land, knowing the Lord was with them.

Phil, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

CHRIST'S rule upon earth is not done from the natural Jerusalem existing in Israel east of the Mediterranean Sea; it is done through NEW JERUSALEM described in Revelation 21.

Revelation 21:22 And I saw NO TEMPLE therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the LAMB are THE TEMPLE OF IT.

Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was offered ONCE to BEAR THE SINS of many; and unto them that (the SPIRIT causes) to look for him shall he APPEAR THE SECOND TIME (second coming) WITHOUT SIN UNTO SALVATION.

NEW JERUSALEM is ruling NOW. You can live in NEW JERUSALEM NOW.

Revelation 21:1 And I saw a NEW HEAVEN and NEW EARTH (born of the SPIRIT): for the First heaven and the first earth were passed away (died on the cross with CHRIST);and there was no more sea (that the beast came out of). Revelation 13:1

Revelation 21:2 And I John saw (in vision) the holy city, New Jerusalem, COMING DOWN FROM GOD (SPIRIT) out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

John 3:13 No man has ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is IN HEAVEN (CHRIST IN YOU Colossians 1:27)

1 Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and the SPIRIT OF GOD DWELLETH IN YOU.

Revelation 21:3 And I heard a great voice (Holy Spirit) out of heaven saying, Behold, THE TABERNACLE OF GOD IS WITH MEN, and HE SHALL DWELL WITH THEM, and they shall be his people, and GOD HIMSELF (SPIRIT) shall be with them (and in them), an be their God.

WE SUFFER in THIS FLESH; until this flesh dies, and we are given the BODY OF CHRIST.

1 Corinthians 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have PUT ON incorruption, and this mortal MUST PUT ON immortality.

1 Timothy 6:16 ....Who ONLY hath immortality.....

Luke 1:69 ..raised up a HORN of salvation...

Revelation 17:16-17 and the ten HORNS (saved) ... shall hate the whore, and shall make her DESOLATE and NAKED, and shall eat her flesh, and BURN HER WITH FIRE.

Ok thanks!!!! I asked this question because people say this a lot and I wanted to hear other people explanation

Hi Timothy,

How do we know He isn't real if we have no proof He isn't?

The fact is you exist. So do I. Your heart beats for no apparent reason. Nothing scientific makes that muscle to continue to expand and contract creating electricity and pumping in a perfect rhythm matching the energy needs, and doing so for 75+ years. The smartest minds on earth don't know how to make it. No one knows how to create life. And the heart is part of a brilliantly designed interconnected system that allows capabilities and features beyond the imagination.

If you see a painting you know there's a painter, if you see a building there's a builder, but if you see something even far more amazing and complex in its design it wasn't made by designer? It it likely a random explosion from nothing designed it, not just once but also in ideal pairs (male/female), also with food (trees/plants). This doesn't follow the scientific method of ever being witnessed or being reproducible and it violates the 2nd law of thermodynamics, because order always goes to disorder, not the opposite.

So, I think deep down when you look at the amazing creation including ourselves we know we're designed and it would take way more faith to believe everything was accidentally designed from nothing and for no reason instead of intentionally designed by a designer.

Imagine a Tesla model S with all its features creating itself. No one would believe that- that's silly. But strangely, people love to believe a human body with even more advanced features is possible, not only that, but in pairs, and also with food, even though such as thing has never been witnessed. 3d vision, video, DNA code in every cell, touch, feel, smell, taste, anti-drowning, water resistant skin, water cooled, heat generation, reproducible, efficient and compact plumbing and electrical system, heals itself. Only adapting to climate is a feature of amazing design, not evolving. No animal has ever evolved into another kind of animal.

Romans 1:19-20. Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

FOR THE INVISIBLE THINGS OF HIM FROM THE CREATION OF THE WORLD ARE CLEARLY SEEN, BEING UNDERSTOOD BY THE THINGS THAT ARE MADE, even his eternal power and Godhead; ""so that they are without excuse:""

We're without excuse. Even without having seen him, even if there were no bible, God's creation declares something skillful and divine has happened.

continue later. Thanks

Timothy.

The proof is in his creation,

His Glory is in his handywork.

That's what Romans ch 1 is all about.

I'm at work, Maybe someone can elaborate on it further, If not I will later.

Thanks, and good day.

Pretty useful!!!! Honestly every time I do something that involves the Bible! I go here and it always has the answer. I recommend this for everyone!!!!! (My favorite part is the trivia)

Genesis 19:8 Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.

Why would he risk lying to this bunch of sexual perverts?

I love reading thanks!!!!!

Lele,

Jesus answered this question and every other question about sex outside of marriage here:

"Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female. For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder." Mat 19:4-6

The sexual relationship that God created is that...

ONE man and ONE woman are to be ONE flesh for ONE lifetime.

Any other kind of sexual relationship is not according to God's design and is in rebellion to God.

I assume your question is if it is a sin to have sexual relations outside of marriage and if so, the answer to that is yes. It's called adultery or fornication. 1 Corinthians 6:18-20

can you have sex before marriage?

"thither" means 'over there'. Likewise, 'hither' means 'over here' (when you come across this word in the Bible).

What is thither?