Discuss Genesis 1 Page 174

From where did all the water come?

Gen.1:6-8 defines "the firmament" as "heaven", which I think means atmospheric heaven (not outer space, not Heaven-God's throne place.)
Gen 1:6-8 describes "waters above the firmament" and "waters under the firmament".
Therefore I should visualize waters above the atmospheric heaven, much more than clouds.

Then in Genesis 7,

Genesis 1:6-8 "And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which [were] under the firmament from the waters which [were] above the firmament: and it was so. And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day."

Elements of Genesis 1:6-8:
"firmament" is "Heaven". Seems to me that this means the atmospheric heaven.
1. "Waters which were above the firmament": seems to be signficant water up there, more than modern day clouds.
2. "waters which were under the firmament": seems to be surface waters plus subterranean water.

Then the water in Genesis 7 came from both places:
2. "were all the fountains of the great deep broken up" (some of the waters below the firmament),
1. "and the windows of heaven were opened" (the windows let through the waters from above the firmament).

What do you think?

AMEN for the comments from Isias and Gaylord.

regarding to our brothers questions of whether god had been existing , or there is another god who created him,no human being could answer their questions except they have their faith in god. they will say yes god exist ever since, but to this modern times that we usually rely on what we observe ,or to see is to belive attitude,we'll surely be confused,but maybe I can give you some idea, Can you see the air that we breath? Can yiou see when it is blowing on the east or west ,yet we know that air is present because without that we wont live,the same with god we will not see him exist yet ,we have the idea about his existence,we can feel it through our hearts , belivers have strong belief that GOD really exist before anything else had been created . no power whatsoever or anything ,anyone created him.God only knows his unpredictable existence ,we doeS not know him but he knows us , HE IS A MASTER BUILDER AND THE CEMENT HAS NO RIGHT TO ASK WHAT THE BUILDER WOULD DO TO HIM.ONLY GOD KNOWS BEST, AND BESIDES THIS BEATIFULL AND PERFECT THINGS THAT WE SEE IS NOT MAYBE CREATED BY CHANCE, THERE MUST BE A GREAT GOD CREATED THEM.INCLUDING HIMSELF? YES,BECAUSE I BELIVE IN GOD,WHATEVER IT TAKES.

I'm older than my son and younger than my Father. Pity you can't here truth. Is.9:6 for unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon His shoulder: and His name shall be called Wonderful,Counsellor,The Mighty God, The Everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. NOW, John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word,and the Word was with God,and the Word WAS God. Isaiah 45:21 Tell ye,and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? Who hath told it from that time? Have not I the LORD? And there is NO God else beside me; a just God and A Saviour; there is none beside Me. And I say, JESUS is LORD! Through His Name of Jesus gives me His acceptance,my credentials, because I believe that My God Loved me and died for my sins for me on that Cross and rent the veil of the room of the Holy Room so that I, through His name of Jesus, can speak directly to Him, my Father. As it is written in ( Matthew 27:51) now, and forever I say, I need no man to show me the way, if I need to be shown I will ask my Father through Jesus Name too show me the Way. But hey, if you can help me understand more by your comments I like to listen. Some of the ones I read are really good and it keeps me learning and looking through the Word.

May. All I am saying is my bible contains NO contradictions. It is the word of God, period.

Joe- Pity I don't need, answers I do need. I'd like to know what you mean by "going in every different direction" and "jumping from text to text". The chapters and verses I quoted, are fact. Or is it just mistakes written in the Bible. Whatever it is Joe, you have to admit it makes you wonder if the clear verses are condradictions or mistakes that man have written themselves. You yourself need to open your eyes. The writtings are so clear even an Intelligent child will pick it up. I do believe in our Almighty God, the creator of the universe, heavens and all thats in between. It is God and God alone we need to give thanks too and praise him each moment of everyday and night for the blessings he has bestowed on us, to prostate in prayer as he commanded Abraham, Moses and every prophet to do. Genesis 17:3 And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying," Exodus 34:8 And Moses made haste, and bowed his head toward the earth, and worshipped. Joshua 5:14 And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him. Matthew 17:6 And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid. Matthew 26:39 And he (Jesus) went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed.
To give elms to the poor. Proverbs 28:27
He who gives to the poor will lack nothing, but he who closes his eyes to them receives many curses. Luke 14:12-14
Jesus advised hosts to invite the poor to their banquets because then God would bless them.
God is great

May. I actually pity you. You are going in every different direction to prove the bible is inconsistent or contradictory. Either you believe in the inspired word of God, or you don't. I don't have answers to your "perceived" contradictions, because it is obvious you are jumping from text to text, and taking things out of context. This does not convince me of anything except that I still believe God's word completely. If I agreed with only the parts I liked, then what would be the use in reading the bible in the first place. You can't have your cake and eat it too. It's all or nothing. May HE give you "eyes to see" and "ears to hear" his Holy word. Blessings.

Garyloyd Newman: Obviously you are only writing what you've been told, not what you have read. Just out of curiosity Garyloyd how old are you. I am asking because what you have written does not make sense at all. Don't preach what you don't know nothing about.

Mohammed was just a man with an idea to get wealth/power just like preachers today send ur money I can get you blessed or healed. The Prophets/Apostles ended in 95AD or when John died. End of the story,God said it all and anything else until the two witnesses show up. A mans actions determine his worth. Some men and their ideas are good and some evil. I study Gods letter to his children. When I get before the Judge there won't be anyone between me and God cause no one can save your soul but God.

Mathew, Did Jesus claim to be God if so where are those actual words written. Why I'm asking this question is because I have some quotes where Jesus says otherwise.
Mathew 5:17-18 "Don't misunderstand why I have come, I did not come to abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets, No I came to accomlish their purpose".
Mathew 15:24 "I was sent only to help Gods lost sheep, the people of Isräel".
John 8:28 "I do nothing of my own, but say only what the Father taught me and the one who sent me is with me, he has not deserted me".
Jesus prophesied that people will worship him uselessly and believe in doctrines not made by God but by man.
Mathew 15:8-9 "BUT IN VAIN DO THEY WORSHIP ME, TEACHING FOR DOCTRINES THE COMMANDMENT OF MEN".
So to you Chuck the answer is NO Jesus is not in Genisis.

Joe: If you have read the Bible you surely would have picked the condradiction's up. However if you haven't then I will enlighten you. Let me just say that the references that I'm about to quote may not be in your Bible as there are many Bibles available on the market that are used by different Christian sects each claiming that their Bible is translated as the word of God.The references I will quote comes from the Tyndale Bible.
Jeremiah 8:8
"How can you say we are wise because we have the the word of the Lord, when your teaches have twisted it by writing Lies"
The Condradiction's In the Bible start from;
In 2 Samuels 8:4 it reads
"David captured 1700 charioteers and 20,000 foot solders, he crippled all the chariots except enough for 100 chariots".
Now read
1 Chronicles 18:4
"David captured 1000 chariots, 7000 charioteers and 20,000 foot solders. He crippled all the chariots horses except for 100 chariots".
Other examples are;
2 Samuels 8:9-10
1 Chronicles 18:9-10

2 Kings 8:26
2 Chronicles 22:2

2 Samuels 6:23
2 Samuels 21:8

Genisis 6:3
Genisis 9:29

John 5:37
John 14:9

John 5:31
John 8:14
You see Jo All doctrines of modern Christianity are made by man. They are definitely not quotes from the bible For example;
The Trinity, Divine Son ship Of Jesus Christ, Original sin and atonement.
Jesus as he says in
John 8:28 "I do nothing of myself"
John 14:28 "My father is greater than I"
Mark 12:29 "The Lord is ONE lord"
Mark 13:32 "No one knows the day or hour when these things will happen not even the angles in heaven or the SON himself, ONLY THE FATHER KNOWS"
The word Trinity is not Biblical nor is it used in any Bibles or Bible dictionaries. Trinity was never specifically mentioned by Jesus. The formation of the word "Trinity"was presented by Athenasius, an Egyptian Deacon from Alexandria and was accepted by the council of Nicea more than three centuries after Jesus had departed from this earth.
Other such "Man made" decisions of the council contributed to the declaration of the Roman Sunday as the Christian Sabbath, and the establishment of December 25th as Jesus birthday. This was done in order to have a celebration that occurred on the same day as the birthday of the pagan gods such as Nimrod (Babylon god) Krishna, (Hindus god), Mithra (Greek god) and Dionysius (Bacchus of greece)who is named the only begotten son of Jupiter and was born of the virgin mother Demeter, on the 25th of December. As you can see the celebration of the birth of Jesus is clearly an idea of pagan decent. As clear as we can read in black and white the Bible forbids even the decoration of christmas trees;
Jeremiah 10:3-4 "Their ways are fertile and foolish. They cut down a tree and a craftsman carves an idol". "They decorate it with gold and silver and than fasten it securely with hammer and nails so it won't fall over".
The conclusions to my recent research on religion is that we so called true Christians are not even close to abiding by Gods laws, far from it. We are such Hippocrates.
I hope this helps Jo, May God give you blessings

Only way for evolution to work is if it was an on going process. That's why science decided darwin was wrong. Think about it. Its a no brainer. We would have to have half monkey, half men walking around and that's why its not the thing to believe. Even scientist know and most Believe in God.

Mohammed murdered Christian right? Read the koran, a bunch of religious mumbo jumbo and twisted knowledge. Evil wisdom and junk to anyone wanting to get to the true Way to heaven. The muslim told me mohammed its another way to get to heaven. I laught. Hitler still has followers. Mohammed to. Both killed Jews and Christian. The last dispensation of whom is in controll of the Mount. The feet are the mohammedians/muslims. The Stone will strike and bring the statue down. I need no other Way or Word or Letter from my Father than the one He sent. I follow no man who played god and won't follow any one wanting to follow any man who made up a bunch of mumbo jumbo. Don't add or take away from Father`s Letter. Why even read it Father Himself told us not to that there is only one Holy Bible. A Christian. Go preach your koran to the dead at koran.dead.

Jesus was in the garden. Tree of life. Read Johns writting. In the beginning was the word and the word was God and created everything. He was the One who said let us create man in OUR image. He didn't leave Himself out. God wouldn't send His children here if He wouldn't come Himself.

Mona. What and where in the bible are your concerns that there are contridictions? If the bible is the inspired word of God, there cannot be any contridictions by definition.

To Chuck: According to the bible Jesus, God, and the Holy Spirit are one. This three in one is called the trinity. In Genesis 1:1, it says God created the heaven and the earth. Jesus does not have to be mentioned because they are not talking of the earthly form of God or Jesus that came through the process of incarnation through the holy virgin birth of Mary (a sinner), then went to the cross, died for sins of all men, rose again on the third day, and shortly after over 500 people witnessed Jesus risen, he ascended into heaven. Hopefully that answers your question!

Mona- wow!! I have to say I was blown away with your comments for such a long time I have been trying to seek the truth and understand what our Almighty God wanted from us meer humans. Multi questions which no-one could give me a answer. The main reason I started asking questions was because I found so many condradictions in the bible that even I kmow that if you read any book and find the slightest condradiction you would throw that book away- right.

Dear. Readers,
Especially Bo , god created a perfectly engineered universe , and the koran talks about genesis in the same way as the bible and the Islam u don't want to be (which u r right) is not what the koran preaches. All religions of the world speak of god almighty and the creator of all. And no religion encourages killing in any shape or form and talks about charity and that void sees and hears everything. What people today who call themselves Muslims are doing is not because they are Muslims. All of us were born into practices of prayers but do we really believe ...? I was like you and looked at nations that call themselves Muslims and i said I don't want to be like them. Then I read the Koran and discovered that non of these nations are practicing the instructions of the Koran and my advice to u is to read it and u will come to the same conclusion. In the koraan Internet is mentioned 1600 years ago. If we read the koran the secrets of the universe are written. But man is too attached to their ancestors religions and practices that they don't open their minds to a book that includes the secrets of the universe . Just like Abraham. As his father told him : my son , your grandfather was worshipping the statues and I worship the statues , why don't u worship the statues? Abraham told him cause god created me and to him I go. And he judges me dooms day.... I wish the world follows Abraham cause he believes in the god almighty without Shia Sunna marinate catholic etc... Open your mind. Be smart and read the Koran. It is a miracle.... And salvation to whom reads it even mother Mary and Jesus Christ are mentioned in stories humans never knew about the miracle of Jesus..... Be smart and read and don't look at the hypocrites that call themselves Muslims and kill in the name of god and the Koran. Cause these are the very enemies of Koran and god
Thank god the Koran is saved in a motherboard in the heaven and what we read is just a display on earth otherwise man would have tampered with it Only the maker of the universe could say that 1600 years. It is written in the Koran. Koran was downloaded on Mohammed and Mohammed had to be totally unlearned so the download is not corrupted... Read the Koran with a clear mind other wise it is too rich for any human to store.... God bless u with his enlightenment . Www.heavenandhell.ws

Is Jesus in Genesis?

Matthew. Thanks for mentioning that very important step I left out. You are right. It is believing AND receiving.

Dear Joe: I agree with you 100% except, but believing that god sent his only son to die on the cross for my sins and all mankind is one thing, but BELIEVING and RECEIVING is the way to Jesus. I know of many historians who believed it happened, but don't accept it as their eternal salvation.

@Joe:
Honestly, I'm not upset or angry. Although I do not "believe", I am a strong supporter of Christianity. Why? Look at what the rest of the world has to offer..Islam? LOL NO! I don't have an issue with most of the core beliefs of Christianity, but as far as it being "true".---No. I'm sorry, but the creation story is a myth. There are many historical truths in the bible, but the creation story is not one of them.

Bo Smith. Please forgive me, but I can tell you are angry and cynical. It's okay. I was there once myself. God made you. There is no other person on earth who ever was, or ever will be like you. You are unique and God's perfect handiwork. But, Bo, you have to make a choice of a lifetime. You have to believe that God sent his only begotten son to die in your place. Please read the book of John. I promise you, it will save your eternal life.

To Derek: Why should i believe evolution when it is not a proven fact and the logic behind it is absurd? Which came first the chicken or the egg? The seed or the fruit? I would love to know. Why aren't there cross fossils between man and animal? Why aren't new and better creatures than humans evolving right now? Why did Darwin himself reject his "theory" ,in his own words, and convert to Christianity? WHY?

Tell me Derek, where is the proof that we evolved? Were you there? Was anyone there? No. And if evolution is such "solid science", then why do so many scientist (who don't profess Christ) not believe in evolution? Uh...maybe because it's a bunch of hogwash that Charles Darwin made up on a whim, wrote it in a book (The Origin of Species), and changed his mind later in life. That's the basis for your belief. Sounds like it's shaky ground, not solid science. And yes, I'll even admit that my belief in creation is a theory, but its foundation is much more reliable than evolution's. The Bible has proved itself time and time again. It's stood the test of time. So go ahead and think what you want of us believers. The difference between me and you:when I die, I'll wake up in Heaven; when you die, you'll be very shocked (and full of regrets) when you wake up in a lake of fire that's burning with fire and brimstone. And for all of eternity, you'll remember the words of all of these people trying to persuade you to believe God and his word.

My final words on the subject. The science of the Bible is nonsense. The Earth is not the center of the universe, the Sun did not stop in the sky for Joshua's battle and yes, we did evolve from lower life forms and it is not a theory but solid science. Look, I know that no one wants to die and certainly does not want to contemplate that death as final so I personally have no problem with individuals clinging to wishful thinking about eternal life. The problem arises when those wishes infringe upon the rights of others and become a basis for inhumane behavior, tax evasion and fraudulent promises to those whose capacity for learning is obscured by their wish for immortality. Believe, have faith, worship, give and face your inevitable death with conviction but at the same time, understand that your evidence, to others, seems weak and trivial, depending solely on the oral tradition of middle eastern authors whose works were woven together by first century hucksters to create the largest business in the history of mankind. The final problem with this business is that it, for thousands of years now, has sought converts and their cash by means that are despicable to enlightened persons. Personally, I hope you are right about eternal life with a benevolent being but it certainly would not be the personage described in scripture as vengeful, given to rage, jealousy, violence with little thought of the individual "child" upon whose woes upon whom they (there are 3 right?) feed, begging for worshipful followers. Good Luck.

God made a statement in Gen. 1:1 then in the 2nd verse the 4th word is "became" not "was" check Isiaih 45:18 created perfect. What happen that He had to restore it and it took 6000 years. Revelation 12 satan the dragon stole a third of Gods children/stars. In the word as in Proverbs 8. Around verse 31? And Job 38 around verse 7? You see the family spoken of as stars,sons of God and let us create man in our image is exact. We are what we are there and same look here. spoken of the world that was and the world that we are on now that has been restored until the LORDs day is in Peter 3 I'm pretty sure? But God created earth and yes with dinosaurs but they couldn't hurt us in that form/body. The dinosuars in Job are behemath drink the whole river jordan and with tails as large cedar trees eat the mountain sides. Space ships are in Ezekiel chapter one. Gods very natural when doing things. He carried His throne Here. But to remember satan as antichrist is going to come and his bunch of preachers will have to ride here so I'm expecting they will return with many flying ships. Don't go flying away. When Christ comes Jerusalem is flatten with hail rocks. Jesus returns with a rod of iron.

It is a fairy tale that the earth was created in 6 days. Anyone who would believe other wise is similar to a martyr thinking they will have 72 virgins after they kill themselves.

No where in the bible does it say that Jesus cured the blind man, not the blindness. Read the scriptures in Mark 10: 51-52, it says- "51 And Jesus answered and said unto him, What wilt thou that I should do unto thee? The blind man said unto him, Lord, that I might receive my sight.

52 And Jesus said unto him, Go thy way; thy faith hath made thee whole. And immediately he received his sight, and followed Jesus in the way.

The bible clearly says he received his sight. Me, Matthew, and Carey have proved you wrong in almost all of your points.

Also, your hypothetical proof that the bible is wrong is not proof at all. If the same God breathed life into the first man, wouldn't he have the power to come in incarnation, and raise someone from the dead? I would think so!

TO DEREK: WHAT SCIENTIFIC DATA HAS BEEN PROVEN WRONG?????

1. The Earth is Round:
2500 years before the earth was proven to be round, the bible revealed the truth in the following passages: JOB 26:10, PROVERBS 8:27, and ISAIAH 40:22

2. Paths of The Sea: (Insert from www.bible.ca)
Matthew Maury (1806-1873) is considered the father of oceanography. His daughter was reading a portion of the Bible to him. While listening, he noticed the expression "paths of the sea" in Psalms 8:8. Upon his recovery, Maury took God at his word and went looking for these paths. We are indebted to his discovery of the warm and cold continental currents. His book on oceanography is still considered a basic text on the subject and is still used in universities. Maury used the Bible as a guide to scientific discovery.

3. The Hydro-logic Water Cycle (Insert from www.bible.ca)--The water cycle was not fully understood until about 30 B.C. by a Roman engineer named Marcus Vitruvius. Yet every aspect of the water cycle was fully revealed to mankind in 1600 B.C.! The Bible's description is in perfect harmony with modern science. Eccl 1:6-7; 11:3; Job 26:8; Amos 9:6. Vitruvius was 1600 years too late!

4. 6 Days of Creation: (Insert from www.bible.ca)--If a fair maiden kisses a frog which instantly changes into a handsome prince, we would call it a fairy tale. But if the change takes 40 million years, we call it evolution. We often hear that science has proved evolution. Nothing could be further from the truth. You see, people often confuse scientific fact with scientific theory. Current scientific theory does conflict with creation. But the facts of science do not! There are many scientists who fully accept Biblical creation. Surprised?

The theory of evolution says that over millions of years simple life forms (one celled creatures) slowly evolved into complex life forms (fish), and that one kind of animal evolved into another kind (ape to man). Genesis, on the other hand, says that all life forms were created in six, 24 hour days. Genesis chapter one states 10 times that life forms can only reproduce after their own kind (ape to ape, man to man). All the observable facts of science strongly support the Bible's claim that it is impossible for one kind to reproduce a different kind. The truth is, there is absolutely no tangible evidence to support evolution from any area of science, just theory and a wild imagination!

But if the Bible is wrong and man actually did evolve in small graduations over a long period of time, we should find ample fossil evidence of links in intermediate stages of transition. For decades, evolutionists have searched for fossils of these links to prove biblical creation wrong. Although millions of fossils have been unearthed, not even one missing link has ever been found. Has it ever occurred to you that this is the reason why scientists refer to them as missing links?

Even Charles Darwin realized the difficulty missing links gave his theory. Darwin wrote in his book, Origin Of The Species, "Why, if species have descended from other species by fine graduation, do we not everywhere see innumerable transitional forms? Why is not all nature in confusion, instead of the species being, as we see them, well defined?" The reason we have never found any missing links is quite simple. Darwin's theory of evolution is wrong!
Here in your own words "The books that contain any scientific data have been completely wrong." You might want to take a look at the bible for yourself before you make assumptions! I rest my case. FOR ANY OTHERS WHO HAVE SCIENTIFIC DATA FROM THE BIBLE THAT HAS BEEN PROVEN WRONG PLEASE LET ME KNOW!