Discuss Genesis 1 Page 21

My understanding is that the third heaven is the same heaven John is caught up to in Revelation 4:1-2.

The other two heavens are the earth's atmosphere (the first heaven) and outer space (the second heaven). Paul appears to be giving the order of these heavens from an earthbound perspective rather than from an order of creation perspective, since the order of these heavens would be reversed if they were numbered from the oldest to the newest.

Genesis 1:14,15,17 says "And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven ..." but in Genesis 1:20 it says God created "...fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven." The addition of the word "open" to the firmament of heaven the birds could fly in means there was a different firmament of heaven that was not open to birds where the lights were.

(Note, I believe Genesis 1:14-19 describes objects in outer space as being "in" the firmament of heaven created on the second day to portray them specifically as they appear to earthbound observers within that firmament who use them to measure earthbound time).

Hello Debra:

The Bible does not say it is sinful to drink alcohol, but it does say that drunkenness is sinful. See Isaiah 5:11, Proverbs 20:1. Ephesians 5:18 tells us not to be drunk with wine, but to be filled with the Holy Spirit.

2 Corinthians 5:11 and Romans 13:13 and Galatians 5:21 all list drunkenness or drunkard as sinful.

God said not to eat from the Two Trees, he forbad them to. Love means simple obedience.

In our hearts most know the things that God does not approve of. Choosing obedience does not involve feelings. We choose God over feelings and temptations. Choosing Him almost always brings immediate rewards.

I learned God helps us to see "the ditches", before we fall into one.

What is the difference between the soul and the spirit!

Hi Denise. Yes, we are all allowed to eat meat, as we desire, or even just be vegetarian. The Genesis 1:29,30 references to "meat", is actually "oklah" in Hebrew. And this word is translated as 'food, or, for the eating'. So when you see, "the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat", you can read it as, 'to you it shall be for your food'.

We generally take Genesis 9:3 as the Scripture that authorizes man to start eating meat (as in the flesh of animals). This God spoke about to Noah after the Ark had landed on dry ground after the flood. However, there could have been meat eating before this time, but this verse gives us a point to work from.

Adam and Eve ate that for bitten friut

In Genesis, Chapter 1, Verse 29 & 30 in a more modern interpretation of the bible .. It says that humans were only allowed to eat plants & seeds of the earth, & fruit of the trees. We are, per Gods command, supposed to be vegan?

I was raised that God stated that we could eat meat. We didn't have to be vegan.

We, my family, were very devote Christians. The preacher often ate at our table.

He ate both meat, vegetables, & fruit as we did.

I am very confused ... so I referred to the St. James Bible that I was raised

to study & read.

I read the same verses in question .. It mentions meat.

So, I would like to know which is correct. Are we, as Christians , allowed to eat meat?

Thank you .. Sincerely

* 1Peter 5:8, Proverbs 20:1, Proverbs 23:29-35, Ephesians 5:18,

1Thessalonians 5:5-10, 1Timothy 3:2,11, Titus 1:8, Titus 2, 1Peter 1:13, 1Peter 4:7, Leviticus 10:9, Leaders, priests, Numbers 6:2-4,

There are a two stories in Genesis that shows negative results.

Deuteronomy 32:33, Proverbs 21:17, Isaiah 5:10-23, Isaiah 28:7,

Proverbs 31:4-7,

Hopefully these are helpful

yes it is a sin to me

Is it a sin to drink alcohol?

Because of the penalty of sin. Not His rather ours. To understand go back to the Garden. The first sin was not the eating of the forbidden fruit. That was the manifestation of the first sin which was that Adam and eve believed that God was a liar. The lie He was accused of was that they " shall not surely die". They did and were sentenced to death. Why were they kicked out of the garden? Not because of sin. That penalty is death. The second death which is To be un existed. Can you sneak up on God and take something from Him that He said you cannot have? Of course not. Gen 3:22 states that they were removed from the Garden of Eden BEFORE they eat of the tree of life and live Forever. BEFORE. And from the pulpits today were are taught that when we depart this existence we shall go to Heaven and live forever, or to he'll and live forever, BUT YOU SHALL NOT SURELY DIE. Jesus took on the sins of the entire world. He died the second death to pay the penalty in our stead. He took to the grave sin and death. When He raised from the DEAD He left behind sin and death and now brings us out of the grave of non existence. Now is mankind offered the gift of eternal life.

Yes, Blancaster,

It seems that Lucifer was extremely splendid in appearance and musicality and wisdom. He let all of this "go to his head" and became proud, envious of God being better than himself, and coveted what was only God's to have (worship, pre-emminence, power, authority, rulership) He wanted to be top dog and thought he could attain it. He used his wisdom to seduce the other angels to follow hi rather than God. How long God allowed him to pursue this course before stripping him of his position, duties, and place in heaven is unkown. We do not know if God admonished him and urged him to repent or not. But obviously there was a period of time since he needed to convince other holy angels to forsake God and follow him. When God thought that Lucifer's time in heaven was up and his sin was beyond repair, He judged Lucifer and cast him to earth.

Whether this happened before or after the creation narrative of Genesis 1:3 and beyond is unknown.

Dear Ed,

I guess this is part 3

Death keeps humanity from total destruction of anything good that God has created in us as a whole. think of how corrupt do not mankind had become before the flood in just 10 generations. Only Noah was walking with God in faith. Yet Adam had lived to about year few hundreds years or so before Noah was born along with Seth living even closer to Adam's time. (if the chronologies/geneologies do not skip generations.) It seems that mankind even welcomed relationships with fallen angels!

( Genesis 6 as some interpret it). Satan had a heyday in this pre-flood time. His work in mankind brough about the a humanity that acted more like Him than creatures made in God's image.

So, in this sense, death was a merciful judgment for our sin because God, in His foreknowledge knew this would happen to humanity if they lived forever like Satan and his fallen angels, and in knowing all things, the plan of the Godhead was to redeem humanity from sins and death to a better existence than that of the original humans created at the beginning (Adam and Eve)

God determined that man, being mortal would receive a salvation from sin that Satan and his fallen angels would never receive. So, in this, His judgment of Satan is more severe than that of death for us. We have the hope of the resurrection to eternal life where there will be no sin. This is the final victory over Satan and sin, which originated with him. God triumphs in and through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ over sin and death, but most markedly, over Satan, despoiling him of power and devices upon all who believe in Jesus.

When we think that Satan was indeed the top angels among all the ones created by God, in the end he will have the lowest place possible of all God's creatures. Thus, God's justice is completed.

Dear Ed,

I hope you are helped by these replies. But I as wondering if you were actually asking why, of all that God could determine, was it determined that humans should die if we sin (because the fallen angels did not die); and also, then, why was it decided that the way for man to be saved was for God the Son to be incarnated into human flesh and die for our sins.

That is a much deeper question that the Scriptures do not define very thoroughly. I believe that the answer remains in the councils of the Godhead when the plan for creation and salvation was chosen before anything had been made, even before the angels were created. So, any explanation by man is opinion, but we can base our opinion on what we know about God's character revealed in Scripture and nature.

For me, I think that God decided that death would be the result of sin because He is Life and Holiness itself. Therefore, sin not only is disobedience and rebellion towards Him, but it also makes us corrupt and unholy, and unworthy of being in relationship with God or receiving eternal life in heaven with Him, (which is what He purposed for us to receive). Death does not allow us to have any of these wonderful benefits. It permanently separates us from God and His goodness (which is always benevolent to His living creatures). In death, we cannot benefit from the beauty and majesty of creation or the joy of relationships with one another or any other good that God has bestowed on all of creation. Death demonstrates to man that sin is very serious and should not be taken lightly by us. Death reminds us that our sinfulness separates us from God. Death makes us desire salvation.

I also think that God, in His wisdom, decided that the penalty for sin is death because He also knew ahead of time that Satan and his fallen angels (who do not die) would become totally corrupt and evil and irredeemable. He knew that if man did not die, we would be come just like Satan. Death spares us from being like him.

Hello Ed. Good to meet you here.

Romans 6:23 states that the wages of sin is death. This is exactly what God told Adam and Eve would happen if they disobeyed His command concerning the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

2Cor. 5:21 says that He (the Father) made Him (Jesus) who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we may become the righteousness of God in Him (Jesus). Jesus took the totality of the sins of all humanity upon Himself on the cross to pay the full penalty of sin that we deserved for us. In His suffering and death the Father spent His wrath upon Jesus for our sins, effecting forgiveness for us. Also, He exchanged our sins for his righteousness through His death for us.

Jesus said to the disciples in the Last Supper Discourse that greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one's life for his friends. (15:13) Here the Lord is telling of His death as the greatest act of love He can do for them (and us who believe). So, His death is His sacrificial love poured out for our benefit not His. the removal of our sin from us by His death reconciles us to God in such a way that we become friends of God instead of enemies; allows God to look upon us instead of away from us because He cannot look upon sin. We have the righteousness of God in us instead of our sinfulness. Hell is just this, God tuning away from those who remain His enemies due to their unbelief. This is because their unbelief prevents them from accessing the benefits of Christ's atoning death. They will forever be without God, without His mercy, without His grace, without His salvation.

Jesus' death breaks the power of sin in our lives and rescues us from hell and the devil's claim upon us. But even more, His death brings to us a future with God in heaven forever. Salvation is not just for this life, but for the life we will receive at the resurrection of our bodies. This was won for us through the resurrection of Jesus. Jesus said that He is the Resurrection and the Life. Jn. 11:25-26.

Hi Ed.

I believe others have very well covered the wages of sin is death and Christ as the sacrificial Lamb.

Romans 6:23.

Hebrews 9:22.

1 Peter 1:18-20...ect.

I would like to give attention to the importance of the resurrection.

If you noticed in 1 Peter 1:18-20. it says Christ crucifixion was ordained before the foundation of the world.

If we consider that verse with

1 Corinthians 15:45-50. and particular on 1 Corinthians 15:45. The life giving spirit now dwells in us and could only come by us being baptized in Christ death, "Cruxifying the old man which we had in Adam.

And we are also baptized in his resurrection.

We could have never gotten that by Adam.

And Jesus answered them, saying, The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.

If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.

Jn. 12:23-26.

I've seen it quoted like this:

By rising from the dead, Jesus Christ demonstrated that He had cleansed the guilt of our past and is able to help us in our present lives. His resurrection assures us that our future is safe and secure. Without Christ's resurrection we would have no salvation from sin, and no hope for our own future resurrection.

The empty tomb is proof of Christ's deity. End quote.

God bless.

Jesus didn't HAVE to die. He chose to.

John Chapter 10

16 And other sheep I have

(Gentiles), which are not of THIS fold (the Jewish believers): them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be ONE fold, and one shepherd.

17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

18 No man take it (His Life) from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

Why? John 3:16

Jesus had to die because GOD had always required a blood sacrifice as payment for sin. Remember in the garden of Eden when dam and Eve sinned God Killed a lamb or shed innocent blood to make a covering for their bodies, thus providing a covering for sin. That's where it started and if you remember Cain and Able, Cain offered a sacrifice not of blood and GOD rejected it.Now if you're asking why all that when GOD can do anything he could have done it anyway he wanted because he is GOD? Well I' not sure anybody could answer that honestly. There are a lot of people that try to explain GOD. That's like trying to bring GOD down to our level. The word of GOD says HIS way's are much higher than our's. We will never understand all about GOD here on earth that's why we accept GOD's word by faith.

Hiya Forum ppl of God ...Lemme give ya my slant on y Jesus had to die...Its was b/c God Almighty wanted to make a new covenant with humanity. A blood Covenant...But it was woven in the great Promise at the Cross .. Zech 13 : 7 ...Smite the Sheperd and the sheep will be scattered....Then i will turn my hand to the little Ones...That was the great Promise of multiplication...His lil ones...The babes and the sucklings...our new heart and new spirit...Jesus told the Greeks unless a Seed dies it abides alone but if it dies it will bring forth much Fruit...The lil ones...thats y the new birth is so important...Behold the Lamb of God that taketh away the sins of the world...Not only did he die but by his blood, but a new covenant was enforced, the multiplication of his seed , Zech 12 : 10...They shall look on me whom they have pierced at the Cross...And mourn for him as an only Son....and be in bitterness as one who is in bitterness for his 1st born..our new innerman is our 1st born which is the Child of Promise the H.G....His multiplication in the spritual realm...Thats y he always refers to himself as the SON OF MAN...Mankind, humanity is gona have a Baby Christ which is the H.G. our 1st born our only son that Child of Promise the H.G..We have been in mourning for 2k yrs for our 1st born,our only son in the spirit which is the H.G. That Son of Promise is the H.G...Thats y Jesus refers to the H.G. AS THE Promise ...The H.G. is the result of his seed his words...Even his breath which is his Words...Because of his death we are gonna birth a 1st born an only son..They shall be in bitterness as one who is in bitterness for his 1st born, his only son...The result of his DEATH is gona be a Baby Christ ,our 1st born our only son...Thats y the Woman in Rev 12 : 5 is giving birth, the Child is her 1st born Her only Son...A kingdom Child...Truly i say unto you unless you receive the Kingdom of God as a lil Child you will in no wise enter there in...the Promise was multiplication.

Genesis 1:26-28, "them" "be fruitful & multiply" Genesis 1:31,

Note Genesis 3:24 "drove out the man" singular, Genesis 3:23, "from the Garden of Eden" Genesis 3:22, "the man" is become like one of us, to know good & evil" is this religion?

* Note, Genesis 4:14 ._._." everyone thst findeth me shall slay._." proof more people in earth. Genesis 4:15,

* Genesis 4:16, appears she was from Nod.

Likewise in Genesis 4:23, the man that was slain wasn't mentioned here.

If you read & study the WORD of GOD, many times you will notice names & several other details are left out at times. 1Kings 17:9-24, same Widow? = Luke 4:26, Luke 7:12, Luke 21:2-3, yet many names are mentioned, when studying often times their names come up again, helping understand a more vast picture. Genesis 6:1-2, is this also in reference to Genesis 4:19, ?

Note Genesis 5, generation of Adam leaves out Cain, Abel & all other people. Again: Genesis 5:1-2, Gen 5:3, "male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day they were created" = them, their, they.

Hopefully this is helpful

Why did Jesus have to die?

All these Old Testament scriptures, and the Pharisees and Sadducees did not even perceive that Jesus was the Son of God (Son of Man). He did not behave what THEY THOUGHT the son of God should look like and behave. They saw people being healed - but they thought he was possessed. Here's the Godhead scriptures.

The Scriptures about the Godhead. Sometimes called "Let Us..." in some passages. These scriptures are evidence of all 3 persons of the Godhead speaking to each other.

Genesis 1:26, 3:22, 11:7

Isaiah 6:8

Romans 1:20

Colossians 2:9

Acts 17:27-30

1 John 5:7

John 10:30

"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and GODHEAD so that they are without excuse:"

Genesis 1:1

The Father purposes

The Word (Jesus) speaks. ( John 1:1)

The Spirit (Holy Spirit) executes the spoken word. Action.

All working together. Jesus came to show us the Father, as Emmanuel.

Matthew 1:23

Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God WITH US.

Mishael

Thank you so much for this incredible website. Is there a place where I can purchase this incredible Bible so that I can listen to it all the way through without having to load each chapter. It would be so good to listen to while I work.

Thank you very much.

Happy Sabbath Richard

In reply to your discussion about there does not appear to be a clear indication whether man was created on or before the sixth day (on the 5th). Man's creation was said to be VERY good; putting it above all else apparently.

I refer to KJV Genesis 1:27, 31, where it says, 27: " So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them

31: And God saw every thing that he made, and behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Genesis 2:1: Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

The sun, moon and stars were created the fourth day, not the third. My summary is:

The first set of three days all involve division in relationship to waters: division over waters, division vertically between waters (establish earth's atmosphere and pre-flood waters above 2 Peter 3:5-6) and division horizontally/gathering of waters to reveal land with plants/trees made for food

The next set of three days create bodies that fill and/or establish God's ordained rule over the divisions in the same order. Celestial bodies, flying and swimming bird and fish bodies, land animal bodies that eat green herbs without seed and man/woman bodies that eat herbs and fruit with seed.

Christ rose in three days, which likely is why there are two groups of three days in which God's purpose in creating things unfolds differently in the first three days of creation from the second set of three days in creation. This is consistent with God's shift in direction between the Old and New Testament dispensations that are defined by whether they preceed or follow the good news of Christ's resurrection.

The Old Testament continually divided people to make it clear who the Christ was when he appeared. Now that Christ is revealed and resurrected the New Testament message is filling the earth with good seed mixed with bad, filling the nets with good fish mixed with bad, filling the wedding hall with invited guests who are ready or unprepared, etc.

God, through Christ and His angels will dispense the final separation of the bad and gathering of the good to establish God's Sabbath rest in the new creation.

Good afternoon, Richard.

Good post!

One thing for me, I think that time/space laws began as soon as God created the universe, in the beginning. I think this because of anything was moving, changing, (think rotation, gases coming together in galaxies, universe expanding, water moving over the earth, any chemical/molecular/atomic reactions) then all these things are done within time/space because there is a passage of time between one molecule merging into two, or atomic activity of electrons, neutrons, and protons. Sometimes we do not think about these things (moving, changing, reacting) this way, but it actually does indicate time had begun with the beginning at the coming to be of the first thing God created.

The creation story is to be taken as true; as opposed to evolution which forces us to not only alter the first chapters of the Bible; but other references of creation in Psalms; Job; and numerous other Old and New Testament texts. There is the "gap" theory; due to a parallel verse in Zechariah describing the situation in verse 2 with the earth being "without form and void" which some take as the time frame between the creation of angels and spirit beings allowing the time for Lucifer's fall; and possible rule over the spiritual world that could explain the apparent much older appearance of the age of the universe. No time to explore that here.

Verse 3 introduces the creation of "light" from darkness and the rotation of the earth separates it with nights and days. It should be noted; however that this appears BEFORE all references to the sun; moon AND all stars. It could be the light of God Himself; or OTHER sources of light explaining the establishment of principles (speed of 186,000 miles a second and other space/time rules) were established by the Lord at that time. We see in verses 6 through 13 the seas being created followed by the grass of the earth. Grass has always been a mystery as to it's origins; and it appears that the heat and light source may have come from earth itself at that time for that and the trees and herbs as well. That would make sense if hell was created at that time for the Devil and his angels. Just a thought.

The third day finally brings the greater light (sun) and lesser light (moon) AND all the stars being created. (v. 13-18). The fourth day through the fifth there was creation of the sea creatures followed by animals; then man. There doesn't seem to be a clear indication whether man was created on or before the sixth day (on the 5th). Man's creation was said to be VERY good; putting it above all else apparently.

Dear friend Genesis 1:1

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

4And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

5And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

6And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

7And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

8And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

9And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

10And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

11And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

12And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

13And the evening and the morning were the third day.

personally I think He would be in a light, or see the light.

The Bible and specifically Jesus say many things about money, and no short response can fully cover this topic. All Christians need God's grace and wisdom to use money properly and to find repentance and forgiveness when we don't. I will start with what Jesus said about riches.

Matthew 13:22 Now he who received seed among the thorns is he who hears the word, and the cares of this world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and he becomes unfruitful.

In this verse riches (money in abundance) chokes the word when we rely on it to stand by us and shield us from the cares of the world more than we do God.

Riches are deceitful, because they will betray the promises we think we can trust them for at the moment we need it most. This is shown by the parable of the man who abundantly prospered on earth and stored up huge earthly provisions for the future, but the moment he set his heart on it he died as a fool in God's sight. He left it all to others without tasting any of the future he imagined he would gain from it and had to give an account for his soul to the God who had just called him a fool.

God is truthful, and promises to deliver even more than we ask or think when we trust Him based on His promises. When we do that, the Holy Spirit assures our hearts that He will never leave us when we need Him most. God cares for us apart from money, like He does the birds who daily get what they need without toiling their lives away for money or storing up the daily things they need in advance for the future. That is why in the Lord's prayer we say "Give us this day our daily bread" and we don't say "Give us this day more bread than we could ever eat in our lifetime".

In writing this I have to confess I need repentance and forgiveness for living many years as a Christian and not understanding what I just wrote. I have much more in common with the fool in the parable than I like, and I am trying to really take these words to heart before I give my account.

Do living a Christian life me you have to be what do the Bible day about Christian having money