Genesis
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1. Adam and Eve were immortal
2. They ate the forbidden fruit
3. They became immortal and died
Therefore what God said was true and what satan said was false.
The #1 problem is people assume a timeframe, but no timeframe is given nor implied. People tend to assume that someone dying will happen 'soon' within an arbitrary timeframe made up in their own mind, like within a couple seconds, or few minutes, or that day or the next few days. Then when what was stated doesn't match their arbitrary timeframe then they may draw conclusions from it. This is not the only part of the Bible where the assumption of a timeframe causes a conflict with people. Revelation 22:20 says Jesus will return soon. Has He? How soon is 'soon'? James 4:14 says your life is a vapour. If you live to be 100 years old are you still a 'vapour'? The answer is yes. God's perspective is very different than our perspective. Life is extremely short compared to eternity. Abraham and Sarah waited 25 years for the fulfillment of God's promise, so was God 'wrong' or was Abraham and Sarah wrong in their perspective and assumption of time? In all cases mankind is the one wrong in false assuming a timeframe when God makes a promise. Have a nice day!
1. They will be subject to death.
2. They will die Spiritually and be subject to Physical death.
3. God will not keep them alive forever.
Many argue that the reference is to an immediate Spiritual death and a subsequent physical death. Others, like St. Augustine and many of the Church Fathers, will say Adam and Eve were created subject to physical death anyway. But, as long as they obeyed God's commandments, they would not experience death and God would keep them alive forever.
Others insist Genesis must be interpreted literally and therefore, the meaning of Genesis 2:17 is they would die Spiritually and eventually die Physically. But if Genesis is to be taken literally, the passage has to be taken at face value. Dying can only mean Physical death. The verse doesn't say Spiritual death. It doesn't imply Spiritual death. And God never discussed Spiritual death. The passage, therefore, must be taken literally or allegorically. Which is it?
If it means physical, then it didn't happen and God was either wrong, or He meant something else. Could the same be said for other things in Genesis 1-3? How many things are there in Genesis 1-3 that can be taken allegorically, if any? Are there any metaphores? Similes? So, the verse is either literal or it is not.
The message of Genesis 1-3 is that God created everything. He created mankind. And Jesus was the object, the reason, the Purpose for Creation. God didn't create man so s/he could could be happy busy bees frolicking in the Garden. He created mankind and everything that exists, so Christ (God in the flesh) could enter creation to liberate it from sin, corruption and all manner of evil. And through the Death of Christ, to bring in Eternal Perfection, immortality, sinlessness.
Well developed arguments and comments are welcome.
1 Peter 2:3
As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby
If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious
Coming to Him as to a living stone, rejected indeed by men, but chosen by God and precious,
Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ
Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded
15 "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
Psalms 1:3
And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.
Isaiah 61:3
"To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified."
The Days of Genesis are probably more than likely periods time, phases of development, stages. This is not a new thought. What has confused many is the fear of accepting that the word 'Day' is not literal. Many Christians fear God will not be happy with them and think admitting it is tantamount to denying the infallibility of Scripture.
But take a peek at Hebrews 3-4. There Paul explicitly tells us that we are still in the 7th Day of God's Rest. And that Day will come to an end at the coming of Christ. So, if the 7th Day can be 6,000 years old, why can't the 1st Day be as long? Now, St. Augustine believed God created us imperfect (able to die, experience pain and suffer). We were supposed, he said, to work our way into Paradise. But when man disobeyed, he failed to perform the works that would lead him to Paradise.
What I want everyone to think about is that God created everything that exists, not for its own enjoyment or road to Paradise. God created for Christ to enter creation to eradicate, annihilate, destroy and put an end to corruption (physical, moral, spiritual), pain, suffering, evil, death and to establish eternal perfection in all things God creates. That is why God stopped creating on the 7th Day, to resume creating a new earth and universe, after His Purpose for this existence is accomplished in Christ, who is the Tree of Life.
ADAM was given the job of dressing and keeping a garden while trying to stay away from the tricks of Satan ( Genesis 2:7).
The animals Adam named was for husbandry purposes ( Genesis 2:18-20). Notice Adam did not name insects or fish because he did not need them to be a farmer.
MANKIND was given the job of having "DOMINION over all the earth" ( Genesis 1:26-28).
1 Peter 3:7 Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.
1 Timothy 3:11
Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.
Ephesians 5:25
Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it
Deuteronomy 17:17
Neither shall he multiply wives to himself, that his heart turn not away:
Genesis 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
Ephesians 4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.
Colossians Chapter 3
18 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord.
19 Husbands, love your wives, and be not bitter against them.
James 4:7
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
1 Peter 3:1
Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be WON by the conversation of the wives;
COMMENTS:
1 Corinthians chapter 7 deals with Marriage.
Submission works both ways.
Shared household duties makes for more Romance.
Shared accounting duties enlightens partnership and goals. Read Proverbs for money advise.
Shared Parenting produces happier, balanced kids. Media is a privilege: not a 1st Amendment right.
Thank you so much for your painstaking moments to reply to my need. I am then sure our Yahusha rise from the grave some time during Sabbath, as He is Lord over the Sabbath.
Warm regards
Herman Dcouto
it is not the time and day of the week that saved mankind from destruction but the act of God through his son Jesus Christ.
Please refer to John 3:16-18.
Sincerely,
Leo.
Jesus died on what we call Wednesday just before sundown.
Wednesday sundown to Thursday sundown = 1 day (first night and day in the tomb)
Thursday sundown to Friday sundown = 1 day (second night and day in the tomb)
Friday sundown to Saturday sundown = 1 day (third night and day in the tomb)
Mary came to the sepulchre at daybreak Sunday.
Look at Matthew 12:40.
Jesus rose at some time between Saturday sundown and Sunday morning.
The "high day" of John 19:31 was the first day of the feast (Passover), and is considered a high holy Sabbath day.
The first day of the Feast was a Thursday (15th day of Nisan- April 3/4). The 15th day of Nisan commenced at sunset on what we would still call the 14th.
Jesus was crucified on the 14th, the "preparation day" ( John 19:31), and by law the crucified bodies should not remain on the cross on a Sabbath day. Jesus was put in the tomb before sunset on Wednesday the 14th.
The "first day of the week" ( Matthew 28:1, Mark 16:1-2, Luke 24:1, John 20:1-), the day of the Resurrection, was from our Saturday sunset to Sunday sunset.
Jesus was to be the Lamb slain, and His crucifixion took place on the "preparation day" ( John 19:14) when all lambs were slaughtered for the great Passover Feast the NEXT day.
The Last Supper DID NOT take place on the day of Passover, look at Matthew 27:62, Mark 15:42, Luke 23:54, John 19:14, John 19:31-42.
The "third day" of Matthew 16:21 is not the third day of the great Feast, but the third day of our Lord and Savior being in the tomb.
The Hebrew calendar used at the time of Jesus counted a full day from sunset to sunset, not midnight to midnight.
The Hebrew 24 hour period of time is broken up into two 12 hour segments. The first segment is from 6 pm until 6 am. The second segment is from 6 am until 6 pm.
The "third hour" of the day in Mark 15:25 when Christ was crucified is 9 am
The "ninth hour" when He gave up the ghost is 3 pm.
My specific question has not been addressed to. I am asking on which day of the week was Yahusha hung on the tree, and on what day of the week did He arise.
Please refer Mathew 12:40.
Very sincerely.
Herman
That's going to mess with a lot of people.
I myself keep my focus on the fact that Jesus was tried and found guilty of blasphemy by the religious Pharisees and the Romans. He was scourged for it. Then later he was found guilty and ordered to be executed.
The Pharisees were so scared that Jesus might be resurrected (as He said he would) that the Pharisees asked Pilot to post Roman guards outside of Jesus's Tomb.
Somehow the guards got sleepy and took naps. They awoke to Mary Magdalene's shouting "He is Risen!".
The Roman guards are sorrowful to lose their prisoner (a corpse), and have to go tell Pilot.
It was a glorious Day for everybody! Better yet, People saw Jesus that day. That's how it got recorded into History. His Tomb is on display and it's EMPTY. Jesus was seen by over 500 people, in the days following.
His disciples saw Jesus as He ascended to Heaven.
Days don't really matter. What matters is that it all happened the way it has been recorded by Historians of that time in history = (His Story)
Please expound on this scripture and tell me if Yahusha rose on the Sabbath or Sunday. Refer Mathew 12:40 if you agree on this then on what day was He hung on the Cross. On what day was He crucified?
regards
Herman
It seems that your understanding of those Scriptures in Genesis & Mark applied not only to Israel but to all mankind, or more specifically to the 'other sheep' that were to come into Christ's fold. To this I disagree, for the following reasons:
a. Exodus 31:13-17 & Ezek 20:12. Clear references as to who should keep the Sabbath & that it was given as not only a day of ceasing from all labours, but as importantly, a sign of the relationship between God & Israel. It was never intended to include Gentiles or the Church in such a requirement.
b. Galatians 3:19. Shows that both the validity & finality of the Law (the whole Law) was fully realized at the death of Jesus Christ.
c. Matthew 5:17. Jesus demonstrated that He alone could fulfil the whole requirements of the Law & none else. The Law was given because of "transgressions" but none could obey it fully to please God & satisfy its demands, since "if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law" ( Gal 3:21). So no Law could bring righteousness, even as a certain ruler learned ( Lk 18:18-24). If he believed he obeyed all of God's Law, how did Jesus pick him up on that point of selling all & following him? That man just had a quick lesson to find out that he in fact didn't obey it perfectly: he broke the very first commandment by placing his wealth, & maybe family & other assets, before his love for God.
How then can we rest on the Law for anything except to know God's Mind & Purposes?
a. The Sabbath was given to man Mark 2:27 at creation Genesis 2:2-3 it's not a day that God required just for the Israelite's to keep, which is why the 4th commandment starts with "remember" it is because the children of Israel had forgotten through hundreds of years of slavery in Egypt.
b. Jesus came to this world not to destroy the law and the prophets Matt. 5:17, The law (10 commandments) says to remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy.
The breaking of bread in Acts 20:7 is referring to eating (food) (see Acts 20:11)
1 Cor. 16:2 the "first day of the week" Paul is referring to putting aside your offerings (collection for the saints) starting on the first day of the week (Sunday) (see 1 Cor.16:1)
Revelation 1:10 John was in vision on the sabbath (Lord's day is the sabbath, For the son of man is Lord, even of the sabbath day. (see Matthew 12:8)
c. What was nailed to the cross was the "ceremonial laws" not the 10 commandments. In (Matt.27:51) the veil of the temple was rent in two when Jesus died on the cross, the ceremonial laws that God had required since sin came into the world (sacrificing animals ect) was no longer needed because the ultimate sacrifice had just been made and that was the shedding of blood of a sinless Jesus on the cross.
Matthew 5:18 One jot or one tittle shall not wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Rev. 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter into the gates of the city.
Genesis 2:16
"And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:"
Genesis 2:17
"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."
Happy to offer my opinion.
1. Genesis 2:17. Adam did die. Death and aging didn't happen before that. So, Adam was instantly separated from God spiritually (spiritual death), and began a slow process of physical death from that point on via aging. And if God killed him instantly, you'd probably have people criticizing that too and making negative claims and assumptions about that, so he allowed Adam (and people in general) to have a long life.
"for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." - sounds like you're interpreting this as thou shalt surely die 'that day', but it doesn't say that. It says in 'the day' that he eats it ... this will happen (death), but it didn't say how soon the death part would occur. It seems to mean spiritual death + death through aging.
2. Genesis 7:4 - "every living substance". The Bible already explained this. Just like in writing class you often write a general thesis at the beginning then later explain more specifically what it means this is what's done here. It doesn't mean it's inaccurate. Simply keep reading. Gen 7:21-23 it specifically says "And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:"
22 says each with nostrils, 23 gives examples which are land animals. It says substance, but appears to mean animals.
The other possibility is that the olive tree was dead and came back to live when the waters receded, but I don't think so, because it would have explained that when it was specific in verses 21-23.
God said Adam would die "in that day" Genesis 2:17 that he partook of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, but he lived until 930 years old.
God said that the flood of Noah's time would destroy "every living substance" ( Genesis 7:4, Genesis 7:23) from the face of the earth," yet the dove sent by Noah plucked an olive leaf from an olive tree after the flood. A tree is a living substance.
If these phrases are taken at face value, would there not be a discrepancy in the Word of God?
Paul's understanding of sin and its transmission through Adam in Romans 5:12 is absolutely correct!
The beginning of sin and its transmission is in no way affected by the creation of all the races in Genesis 1:26-28, as well as the beginning of the race through Adam in Genesis 2:7; eventually becoming known as "Hebrews" (look at Genesis 40:15, Exodus 3:18, etc.)
Original sin was not transmitted through a particular bloodline, but rather through the Spirit and the Will of God.
Had Adam fulfilled his responsibility, then there would have been no need for the promise of Genesis 3:15, and we would all be living in the 3rd dispensation of time now, right here; heaven on earth. But, that did not happen, and 6000 years later we are still waiting for His second Coming.
If you want to believe that all races of humans came from Adam that is your choice. That does not affect the saving grace of Jesus Christ. I have given you Biblical reference (man, flesh, Sons of God, giants, the flood, dispensations of time) for the position I make, as well as definitions of Hebrew words for assistance and reference.
Your Biblical explanation (or lack of one) concerning HOW the other races came to be upon the earth reinforces your shaky position on such an important topic(s).
I will restate that GOD specifically refers to "nations" and "gentiles" and "heathen" and "people" as FOREIGN to the specific tribe and nation and people known as Israel. God making this distinction throughout ALL Scripture should be a big clue.
Gold does not lie in the streets and on the pathways; we have to dig a little to find it. So also is the understanding of the Word of God! ( 2Timothy 2:15)
The Bible was not written in English, it was originally written in Hebrew, Chaldean, and Greek (N.T.). A Bible Concordance is a must for every Bible student (that doesn't know Biblical Hebrew, Chaldean, and Greek).
Cain found his wife because Adam and Eve were not the only two people living on earth at that time.
( Genesis 1:26 - 28) states that on the 6th day God created mankind, BOTH male and female, blessed them, and told them to be fruitful and multiply, RE-plenish the earth, subdue it, and have dominion over every living thing on it.
God also created Adam on the 6th day. Adam, however, was not told to subdue the earth and have dominion over it.
Adam was put in a garden in Eden ( Genesis 2:7, 8) completely by himself ( Genesis 2:18, 1st Timothy 2:13).
The instructions given to Adam were to dress the garden and to keep it ( Genesis 2:15). Adam was a farmer, and the animals brought to him in ( Genesis 2:19 - 20) were utilized for that particular purpose.
The instructions given to Adam are completely different than the instructions given to the rest of mankind in Genesis 1:28-29 because God specifically chose Adam to stand against the serpent in the garden, and God chose the lineage of Adam to bring forth the Savior of the world. (It is interesting to note that unlike Noah, Abraham, Moses, etc., who are all stated as being faithful or righteous, that is nowhere stated of Adam; but it may be implied, as God did choose him).
The Bible uses translated words such as "peoples," "nations," "heathen," and "gentiles" to define people as "foreign" or, in other words, a different lineage than Adam. The reason Cain found a wife in the land of Nod, east of Eden ( Genesis 4:16) is because the other races of people created by God on the 6th day were living on the earth, reproducing, and having dominion over it.
It is interesting to note that for over 6000 years of marriages between the races of the world, those same races are still very much distinguishable......and ALL are blessed through the perfect plan of God, ( Genesis 1:28 12:2-3, 26:4, etc.)
As to why the earth was being RE-plenished by God, look at ( 2nd Peter 3:5 - 7, 13).
Concerning the 7th day of the week and the 1st day of the week
The Hebrew definition of the word "week," or "weeks," simply means "sevened."
The Greek definition of the word "week" is defined as "Sabbath," i.e. the 7th day (of a seven day period); the day of rest.
The 7th day was established for ALL of mankind back on the 7th Day of Creation ( Genesis 2:2-3, Exodus 20:8-11, Exodus 34:21, etc. etc.) and was never abolished.
( Mark 2:27-28) "And he said unto them, The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath."
If we believe in the Father and His only begotten Son, then we have Christ in us every day, not just one day per week.
This new understanding is an enhancement of the 7th day, not the abolishing of it. It was made to last forever. This is a day that God BLESSED and SANCTIFIED! Christ always honored the Sabbath. The Apostles kept the Sabbath; look at Acts 13:14, 27, 42, 44, Acts 16:13, etc.
Pentecost is a holy SABBATH day; i.e. a day of rest.
Many use the "first day of the week" spoken of in Acts 20:7, to change the Law of God, but this verse concerns the first Sabbath in reckoning the seven Sabbaths until Pentecost. (i.e. the first day of the Sabbath. Week = Sabbath.
In Acts 17:2 and Acts 18:4, Paul is continually feeding the people Scripture on the SABBATH.
Christ never abolished the Sabbath; neither did Paul.
God never said anything concerning that fact, and if He wanted that day changed, He would have made it abundantly clear.
Have you considered looking at the Dead Sea Scrolls?
The Book of Enoch, in particular, reveals a 364 day solar priestly calendar.
52 (weeks) x 7 = 364
Look at the first book of Enoch; specifically, ch. 72, and ch. 82 (column 27) are words concerning the ancient solar calendar.
Concerning the Sabbath:
The Hebrew definition of the word "week," or "weeks," simply means "sevened."
The Greek definition is clear, as the word "week" is defined as "Sabbath," i.e. the 7th day (of a seven day period); the day of rest.
The 7th day was established for ALL of mankind back on the 7th Day of Creation ( Genesis 2:2, 3) and was never abolished.
( Mark 2:27-28) "And he said unto them, The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath."
If we believe in the Father and His only begotten Son, then we have Christ in us every day, not just one day per week.
This new understanding is an enhancement of the 7th day, not the abolishment of it. It was made to last forever. This is a day that God BLESSES and SANCTIFIED! Christ always honored the Sabbath. The Apostles kept the Sabbath; look at Acts 13:14, 27, 42, 44, Acts 16:13, etc.
Pentecost is a holy SABBATH day; i.e. a day of rest.
The "first day of the week" spoken of in Acts 20:7, concerns the first Sabbath in reckoning the seven Sabbaths until Pentecost. (i.e. the first day of the Sabbath. Week = Sabbath.
In Acts 17:2 and Acts 18:4, Paul is continually feeding the people Scripture on the SABBATH. Christ never abolished the Sabbath; neither did Paul. God never said anything concerning that fact, and if He wanted that day changed He would have made it abundantly clear.
To pluck a few verses out of Scripture and declare a law of God to be null and void (especially with so much Scripture speaking contrary to what you are proposing) is playing fast and loose with His words.
*Look at the book of Enoch; specifically chapter 72 and 82 (column 27) concerning the ancient Enoch Solar priestly Calendar. A 364 day calendar (52 x 7)
If the book of Genesis is one cohesive book, then why are the events of Genesis chapter 10 concerning the dispersion of the children of Noah given to us BEFORE the cause of their dispersion in Genesis chapter 11? (i.e. the scattering of the sons of Noah in chapter 10 took place BECAUSE of the events that happened at the Tower of Babel in chapter 11)
If Adam and Eve were the first two humans on earth, where did Cain find a wife?
If Adam and Eve are the ONLY two people from which all humans descend from, then why does God make a point to distinguish between a Jew and a Gentile? ( 1 Corinthians 10:32)
Why do we have different races on the planet after 6000 years of inter-breeding? A change in the location of a person does not make him a different race!
Why does the HEBREW definition of the word "Gentile" refer to a FOREIGN nation from the nation of Israel?
Why is the word "man" in Genesis 1:26 given in plural and defined as "mankind in general"?
Why is the word "man" in Genesis 2:7 given in singular form, with the article, denoting the particular man Adam?
Some of these topics may require research; ( 2 Timothy 2:15).
Remember, the Bible was not written in English!
There are many resources available to help gain a deeper understanding of the Word of God: Concordances (Strong's), Interlinear Bibles (Green's), Commentaries, etc.
May God be with you in your quest to understand Scripture!