I did not see your reply, some are not going to my Email for some reason.
I have heard interpretations of who the woman is, Israel, the Church, and some say, Mary.
Rev. 12:1-4
The word wonder Greek semeion, means something extraordinary, or miraculous, mostly translated sign. Sign with a meaning of divine power or purpose made known. Sometimes the word is used to denote a sign of future things these wonders are in heaven, so it is a vision John was shown.
We know the dragon is Satan because scripture says so and most would agree the man child is Jesus the one who will rule all nations with a rod of iron, Psalms 2:9, Revelation 2,12 and 19. The scripture is clear this starts before Jesus was born, the dragon was going to devour the child as soon as it was born. We see this effort of Satan when King Herod ordered not only the killing of all the children in Bethlehem but on all the coasts, from two years old and under.
Rev. 12:5-6 The woman flees to a wilderness prepared by God to be there for 1260 days. This is after the ascension of Jesus, not just after, but in the future. As for the Church is the woman; when the dragon was standing in front of her, Jesus was not yet born, the Church was formed after he was born, the Church did not birth Jesus, the Church is His body.
The woman cannot be Mary, even though she was the mother of Jesus, we are not of the seed of Mary as we see in verse 17, "the remnant of her seed". So, this leaves the third choice, which is Israel. If we look back at Genesis 37:9-10, we see a pretty good picture of this woman.
Israel plays a prominent role in the end-time prophecies of the Bible. Israel will endure into the end times and play a primary part in God's plan for the final days. There are unfulfilled unconditional covenants God made with Israel. "Until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled". The first woe is future.
You state, the sun & the moon will not shine for a time;
Jesus is not literal speaking of sun, moon & the stars
Joseph dreams, Genesis 37:9 that the sun & the moon & the stars bow down & paid homage to him
Jacob interprets it, Genesis 37:10-12 representing him the sun, his mother the moon & his brothers the stars.
Rev 21:23 the Light represents the glory of the knowledge of God, that shines in the heart.
there is no more need of the light from mankind, God now speaks to us through His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, in which all things consist & have their being, that He, Christ might have the preeminence above all created things.
Friends, I ask you to consider all these Scriptures in the Light, which the Spirit gives to us in the Face of Jesus Christ.
My understanding is, the woman in Revelation 12 is Israel, Genesis 37:9. The woman brought forth a man child who was to rule all nations, this is Jesus, Rev. 2:27Rev. 19:15. Jesus will return to Israel, Zech. 14:4Isaiah 11:11-12Jeremiah 23:3-8Ezekiel 37:21-25Rev. 14:1.
Please do not take offense, Robert Breaker is interesting but like I said before some of the things do not line up. Like the Rabbi says 10 jubilees until the Messiah comes and that is calculated to the year 2017. How can that be a sign of what Trump did by moving our embassy to Jerusalem?
My understanding of what John saw in Revelation 12, was the woman, a dragon, and a war in heaven. The woman is Israel who brought forth Jesus, Jesus ascended back to heaven and is on the right side of the Father on the throne, this was almost 2000 years ago. The dragon is Satan, and the war that Satan and his angels are cast down out of heaven to earth and no more place in heaven for them, this is in our future, this will happen when the fulness of the Gentiles become in Romans 11:25.
So, if part of Revelation 12 is in our past, the way Breaker used the images in Rev. 12 to me does not fit. I hope this makes sense and is not offensive. You may have received good information from his video that helps your study.
I believe it's used like that here in Genesis 6:9-10 also.
"These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.
And Noah begat three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth."
Also here in Genesis 36.
Now these are the generations of Esau, who is Edom.
Esau took his wives of the daughters of Canaan; Adah the daughter of Elon the Hittite, and Aholibamah the daughter of Anah the daughter of Zibeon the Hivite;
AND THIS GROUP IF PEOPLE GOES ON UNTIL YOU GET TO
Genesis 36:9 and it gives a list of those of Esau in mount Seir.
"And these are the generations of Esau the father of the Edomites in mount Seir:"
Hi Karla. In the Hebrew, the language of the Old Testament, the word is defined as 'captain or chief'. So, when we see 'dukes' in Genesis 36:19,29,30 and so on, we can understand that these men were chiefs/leaders in their tribes. The KJV uses the word 'duke' since this word was most commonly used in 17th century AD England to represent leaders. And we know that in British royalty, the titles of duke & duchess are still used - a carry over from the old days.
I see your request was "before dawn " I hope you've made it into another evening.
1st I pray you will never be tempted to hurt, harm or destroy yourself ever. You are created by GOD ALMIGHTY in HIS image. Psalms 139, in Psalms 139:14, it says fearfully & wonderfully made, fearfully meaning; apprehension something bad will happen. Amazingly GOD knew & knows with each of us, we have the potential to do & choose bad._.._however HE created with mercy & calles us "wonderful" keep reading & amazingly we see Psalms 139:17 GOD's thoughts are " precious" towards us, they number more than sand, HIS precious thoughts for & towards us. & like David who wrote Psalms 139:18, we are still with thee, if & when we awake. Difficulties can seem impossible, even people of the Bible went through despairing of life itself, yet everyone that chose life over death, had a better end. In this earth & in the End. Revelation 11:18,
Jesus = Matthew 26:38-42, Luke 24:34,
Jacob aka Israel = Genesis 37:35, Genesis 45:27,
Elijah = 1Kings 19:4, 2Kings 2:11,
Not good; Judas= Matthew 27:4-8, 2Samuel 17:23,
Choose life, that you might live Deuteronomy 30:19,
Revelation 12:1 description is the same description of Israel in Genesis 37.
Revelation12:1. "And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the SUN, and the MOON under her feet, and upon her head a crown of TWELVE STARS:"
Genesis 37:9-10.
"And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the SUN and the MOON and the ELEVEN STARS made obeisance to me.
( Verse 10 Jacob interpret the dream for us.)
Vs 10. "And he told it to his father, and to his brethren: and his father rebuked him, and said unto him, What is this dream that thou hast dreamed? Shall I and thy mother and thy brethren indeed come to bow down ourselves to thee to the earth?"
Different opinions on who the woman is that is clothed with the sun, the moon under her feet, and a crown of twelve stars. Some say the Church, some say Israel, some say Mary. In verse 3 another wonder, a great red dragon that drew a third part of the stars and cast them to earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman ready to devour her child.
Both of these wonders appeared in heaven. The word wonders Greek- semeion, means something extraordinary, or miraculous, mostly translated sign. Sign with a meaning of divine power or purpose made known. Sometimes the word is used to denote a sign of future things.
We know the dragon is Satan because scripture says so and most would agree the man child is Jesus the one who will rule all nations with a rod of iron, Psalms 2:9, Revelation 2:27, 12:5, and 19:15. The scripture is clear this starts before Jesus was born, the dragon was going to devour the child as soon as it was born. We see this effort of Satan when king Herod ordered not only the killing of all the children in Bethlehem but on all the coasts, from two years old and under.
The woman flees to a wilderness prepared by God to be there for 1260 days. This is after the ascension of Jesus, not just after, but in the future. For the Church as being the woman, when the dragon was standing in front of her, Jesus was not yet born, the Church was formed after he was born, the Church did not birth Jesus.
The woman cannot be Mary, even though she was the mother of Jesus, we are not of the seed of Mary as we see in verse 17, "the remnant of her seed". So, this leaves the third choice, which is Israel. If we look back in Genesis, we see a pretty good picture of this woman, Genesis 37:9-10.
Chapter 12 covers the time from before our Lord's birth and ascension to the throne, up to the casting out of heaven of Satan and the fallen angels permanently, Rev.12:8-9, to the start of the Great Tribulation.
For Genesis 44:28, you would need to look back to Genesis 37:3-36 to learn the full account.
And to your other question about Joseph's rise from being a slave and then sold to the Egyptians to then becoming an overseer over Pharaoh's kingdom, you can read about that in Genesis chapters 39 to 41 (that the LORD was with Joseph in spite of a false accusation which put him in prison). If you need other questions answered or commentary on a particular verse, we will be happy to oblige you.
Good answer, you can see with Joseph's dream in Genesis 37:9 The sun and the moon and with Joseph twelve stars, Israel. You can eliminate Mary mother of Jesus for she did not have a remnant. You can eliminate the Church because it did not birth Jesus, it is the body of Christ.
The man child Jesus, the woman, Israel brought forth is to rule all nations with a rood of iron and after His resurrection he ascended to heaven to the right side of God. We see the dragon trying to devour Jesus with Herod, and the killings of all the man children of 2 years old of all the land, Matt. 2:16.
Then after the dragon is cast out of heaven permanently, in vs. 8 no place is found anymore in heaven. Satan is wroth with the woman/Israel and went to make war with the remnant of her seed starting the three- and one-half years tribulation.
Using Different Search Engines for Studying - In Reply on Genesis 37 - 2 years ago
When you come into this website you're on the LINK PAGE.
Up at the top is the SEARCH BOX. Links for the entire Bible is below that.
It's a really great SEARCH ENGINE, but just for Bible subject.
You can put the word 'Atonement' in the box and hit the arrow >
The engine will fetch every scripture that contains THAT word. You can sort the list; and the engine places the list in book order.
Or you can read either Old Testament verses only
Or, New Testament verses only
With DATES OR HISTORY, you'll have to go on Google. Type it in like this:
"Atonement, history"
Or Commentaries, or Meaning, or teaching
By using all the search options, you'll learn some really awesome information. If search doesn't fetch anything try wording it differently.
If it fetches 10,000 verses; try wording it another way or just look at only OT or NT verses.
Look around on this whole website to see what's in it. If you get lost, just back out and come back in. Curious is good.
The location of the commentary box is below the search box. Touch a scripture and it will highlight Yellow. Scroll down slowly; the Wesley Commentary will appear.
The original Hebrew reads "Hkthnth phsim" which is translated as "tunic of distinction" and further interpreted (by Jews) as "a coat of [many] colours". The Septuagint (Greek) text says "chitona poikilon" which means "tunic of many [colours]".
Interesting question. I clicked on the verse then scrolled down to the Strong's translation info and then viewed other translations on that page and it does appear some interpreted it as a long coat but others many colors. I believe there are some in this forum that speak Hebrew so it would be nice to get their opinion when they read the original Hebrew.
Genesis 37:23 Strong's 5646 (coat of) many breadths: I found a question about this, often translated as "many colors" on Quora. The inquiry was about how this word differs in many translations. Another rendering is of many stripes. I have heard that this might refer to comprising strips of different animals' pelts. Whichever the case, it was a special coat or garment and the brothers were jealous because it separated him from them. He was his favorite son and had been treated as special compared to his brothers. They dipped it in goat's blood to take back to the father as a plot to convince him that Joseph had been killed by an animal. The quora question wanted an explanation regarding the various renderings. I tried to find this discussion in commentaries but failed. Perhaps someone else on this forum could give a more thorough explanation for me to present to the person who posted the pertaining question.
The term is also used to describe a Hebrew custom which indicated deep sorrow. Upon the death of a relative or important personage, or when there was a great calamity, it was customary for the Hebrews to tear their garments. Reuben rent his clothes when he found that Joseph had been taken from the pit ( Genesis 37:29). The sons of Jacob rent their clothes when the cup was found in Benjamin's sack ( Genesis 44:13). A messenger came to Eli with his clothes rent to tell of the taking of the ark of God and of the death of his two sons ( 1 Samuel 4:12). David rent his garments when he heard that Absalom had slain his brothers ( 2 Samuel 13:31). See also 2 Samuel 15:32; 2 Kings 18:37; Isaiah 36:22; Jeremiah 41:5. Rending of clothes was also an expression of indignation. The high priest rent his garment when Jesus spoke what he thought was blasphemy ( Matthew 26:65).
Genesis 37:5-11, Genesis 40:5-22, Genesis 41, Deuteronomy 13:1-4, Job 7:14, Jeremiah 29:8, sometimes dreams come because of movies we watched, "you caused to be dreamed" Ecclesiastes 5:3,
Genesis 20:3, Numbers 12:6, Jeremiah 23:28, Matthew 1:20, Matthew 2:12,13,19,22, Books of Daniel 2, 4, 7, Matthew 27:19,
I had to look at a couple of commentaries. Write this down so you can view them when you need to.
Go on Google. " Type your scripture: Genesis 2:4, commentaries"
It'll bring up several. I like BIBLEHUB. It's fun to look at other websites too ( within the first 5-10 listings)
>> Pulpit Commentary
Verse 4. - These are the generations is the usual heading for the different sections into which the Book of Genesis is divided (vial. Genesis 5:1; Genesis 6:9; Genesis 10:1; Genesis 11:10, 27; Genesis 25:12, 19; Genesis 36:1; Genesis 37:2).
All of these proposals are, however, rendered unnecessary by simply observing that toldoth (from yaladh, to bear, to beget; hence begettings, procreations, evolutions, developments) does not describe the antecedents, but the consequents, of either thing or Person (Rosen., Keil, Kalisch).
>>[Keil and Delitzsch Biblical Commentary on the Old Testament]
The historical account of the world, which commences at the completion of the work of creation, is introduced as the "History of the heavens and the earth," and treats in three sections, (a) of the original condition of man in paradise ( Genesis 2:5-25); (b) of the fall ( Genesis 3); (c) of the division of the human race into two widely different families, so far as concerns their relation to God ( Genesis 4).
I have a rule myself to let the HOLY Spirit teach us as we read. 1 John 2:27, John 14:26,
Sometimes we have to work at "unlearning" what someone tells us the Bible says. GOD's WORD is a "living Word" it teaches, corrects, edifies._.. 2 Timothy 3:16, & gives us wisdom. James 1:5,
Genesis 34, is the account. Notice : Genesis 34:2, they were Hivite
Thank you "GiGi" for pointing out her approximate age through scriptural knowledge. Genesis 30:19-31, Genesis 31:38-41,
Genesis 33:13-17, it says after they met Esau, they built a house & booths for cattle it doesn't say exactly how long they were there. It appears they may have left when Joseph was about 6 yrs. old because Genesis 31:41, But it was before Joseph was 17, Dinah seems to be older sister, they then pitched a tent._ Genesis 33:18-20 The only accounts of age we're given is Joseph was born & Genesis 30:25, Genesis 37:1-2, yet Joseph went to find his brethren in (Shechem) so was this timing, a historical account putting both situations about the same time? Genesis 37:11-14, because later Israel/Jacob tells Joseph about his mother's death & burial, that happened on Journey Genesis 35:1, Genesis 35:15-20, Genesis 35:27-29, Genesis 48:1-7, Genesis 45:25, Genesis 46:6,
David, thank you for suggesting that the coat was referring to Jacob declaring Joseph to be the heir. That must have made is brothers feel terrible. The heir was to be the firstborn, but Jacob decided otherwise. It doesn't say when Jacob gave Joseph the coat. As a growing teen, it may have been recent so that it would fit well enough for Joseph to wear at the time his brothers stripped him (probably, in a way, stripping him of his "heirness) and placed him in the cistern. It also does not say when Joseph told of his dreams. So, we do not really know how long the brothers had "stomach" Joseph strutting around in this coat, speaking of his dreams, but perhaps, not doing much work for the family. I don't think that Joseph was all that innocent here, but he grew into a great man of God in Egypt. God had chosen him. Perhaps, He had told Jacob that already. As Joseph served as a slave in Egypt, he was brought low in order to be raised up to a very high position in the Egyptian government. Like Jacob, he was away from his family for a very long time, time for God to mature them both in their respective situations.
Hi Gigi The coat of many colors was one of the jealousy triggers with Josephs brothers because it signified leadership and he was to be the heir. Joseph is a great example of a walk of patience and love and wisdom of God to the point of
literally making Egypt the wealthiest in the world at that time also of God changing situations in His life from lemons to lemonade because he believed.
Joseph must have not spent much time with these brothers. Maybe children were brought up with their mothers and since Jacob had 5 wives, they may not have interacted much with their youngest two brothers from Rachel. None of his older brothers had Rachel for a mother. The brothers schemed about a way to kill him. Rueben was sensible and more honorable than the others. He wanted to trick is brothers and rescue Joseph. He didn't want Joseph to be killed and suggested an alternative plan whereby he could later rescue Joseph. The brothers agreed with him and put him into a dry cistern. Rueben was not wit the brothers when Judah suggested to sell Joseph to the caravan that included Ishmaelites (from Abraham and Hagar) and Midianites (from Abraham and Keturah). They apparently associated together, at least for trade purposes). Judah may have wished to spare Joseph, or maybe he just wanted to be able to make a buck off of his brother.
In Egypt, Joseph was sold to Potiphar, an official of the Pharaoh. Rueben was very upset when he came to the cistern and found Joseph gone. He did not know what had happened to Joseph.
Then the brothers covered up their plot by taking his coat, killing a kid goat, and soaking the coat in the blood. Jacob was none the wiser in tis matter. When the sons came with the bloody coat he was convinced that Joseph had died from an animal attack even though Joseph's body was no where to be found. Jacob grieved long and hard for Joseph. The brothers tried to comfort their father, but he was not easily comforted.
This is when the story ends.
Joseph was a dreamer, given this gift from God. It is not revealed how aware Joseph was of God and how closely he followed Him. His character and relationship with God will be tested in the years to come.
Here again we have a parent showing favoritism to one child over another. This time it was Jacob favoring Joseph, his 11th son. Hadn't Jacob learned anything from growing up with his mother favoring him and his father favoring Esau? surely e knew what it was like to favored and not favored. But, Joseph was Rachel's child and she was favored by Jacob over his other wives.
Joseph was 17 in this chapter. So, for 17 years, his brother had witnessed how their father favored and pampered Joseph. He did not work in the fields with his brothers, even though he was old enough to do so. He was given finer clothing than them. Their father allowed Joseph to snitch on his brothers. Was Jacob aware of how damaging this favoring was to his other sons? I am the fourth of ten children in my family. Growing up we did have discussions and arguments about who was favored by my parents. They tried not to favor any of us, but they made comments that led to us thinking some were more of a "golden child" than others. But we never hated our siblings.
Joseph was given dreams from God. I don't think Joseph really knew quite how to handle these dreams and so wanted to tell others to find some answers, perhaps. Maybe he did want to lord it over his brothers a bit. He was not perfect.
Telling his brothers ended up being for the good because, in time, they all would be reminded of these dreams from many years past when in Egypt. I wonder if the multiple colors of the coat was significant. Any help on this?
Perhaps it was just that it was considered expensive, extravagant, or time consuming to dye so many different colors before spinning into threads to create the coat.
His brothers were jealous of Joseph and hated him. They commiserated together over this while working in the fields. They were old enough to have married and began families of their own by this time. Jacob sending Joseph out to see how the work was going was not welcome, since he often would bring back a bad report about them.
Good, you're at the right site. Start reading the WORD written inside by clicking the Books, I like Luke when I started that was great to show me as new study who Christ Jesus was, is & is to come. Hover over the scripture here, should bring you straight to it.
Luke 1:1-4, you can continue to read by clicking read full chapter the scroll down, click tab on edges to next chapter, etc. Many people enjoy Psalms, I didn't enjoy it as much as a new beginner study but do enjoy it much more now after years of study.
Psalms 1:1-3,
U may enjoy Exodus, which actually begins in Genesis 37:1-36, continues : Genesis 39:1-23, Genesis 40:1-23, Genesis 41:1-57, Genesis 42:1-38, Genesis 43:1-34, Genesis 44:1-34,
[Note this scripture chapter 44, Genesis, if you noticed we skipped Genesis 38, because it jumps from Joseph to Judah. Now if you read Genesis 38:1-30, you can understand a few things on deeper level = Judah maybe knows painful loss of children at this point in his life & even the difference of love towards children of his "loved wife". Next very importance of Judah's sacrifice for others, resemblance of Jesus sacrifice being beloved Son of GOD. John 3:16, ]also interesting Tamar, bore to Judah the son in Jesus documented lineage Matthew 1:1-3]
Back to story : Genesis 45:1-28, (forgiveness), Genesis 46:1-34, Genesis 47:1-12 (Redemption) Genesis 47:27-31,
Now note: Genesis 47:13-26 , Genesis 12:1-3, Genesis 12:10, Genesis 12:11-16, * Genesis 12:13-20, Genesis 16:3, Genesis 16:6-11, Genesis 15:13-14, Genesis 21:8-21, my own opinion Deuteronomy 32:35-36, Romans 12:19.
These moments in Genesis leading up to how & why Israel came into bondage. Exodus 1:1-8, continue reading Exodus 1:22, please continue to read all of Exodus.
One more encouraging note :) Hebrews 11:22, Psalms 105:1-45,
Furthermore on this site under the 1611 Version tab you can scroll to see more history on the Bible.
Hopefully these inspire a new lifetime desire of deeper study
The believe the Woman is Israel, If you take it from verse 5 it says she brought forth a Man Child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron. That's the Lord Jesus Christ. The church didn't come along and birth Christ. Christ came along to build his Church.
Revelation 12:4-6. And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
AND SHE BROUGHT FORTH A MAN CHILD, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
Also in verse 1 You see a description of her that parallels with her in Genesis 37 when Joseph dreamed. Jacob interpreted the dream by the sum, moon, and stars mentioned.
Revelation 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman CLOTHED WITH THE SUN, AND THE MOON UNDER HER FEET, AND UPON HER HEAD A CROWN OF TWELVE STARS:
Genesis 37:9-10. And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, THE SUN AND THE MOON AND THE ELEVEN STARS MADE OBEISANCE TO ME.
And he told it to his father, and to his brethren: and his father rebuked him, and said unto him, WHAT IS THIS DREAM THAT THOU HAST DREAMED? SHALL I AND THY MOTHER AND THY BRETHREN indeed come to bow down ourselves to thee to the earth?
12 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
Genesis 37:9-10
9 And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.
10 And he told it to his father, and to his brethren: and his father rebuked him, and said unto him, What is this dream that thou hast dreamed? Shall I and thy mother and thy brethren indeed come to bow down ourselves to thee to the earth?
From this passage of Scripture speaking of Joseph and the dream he was given; we can see that the woman with the 12 stars and the sun and the moon referenced in Revelation 12 is Israel.
The dragon is obviously that old serpent our defeated foe (satan).
And the water represents nations or people that will attack Israel during the time of Jacob's trouble/the great tribulation, but she will flee to the valley in the mountains prophesied in Zechariah 14 (I believe) that God hath prepared for her.
Later John writes about MYSTERY BABYLON MOTHER OF HARLOTS (the roman catholic church) that sits upon many waters. We can see that the roman emperor (the pope) has his "churches" all over the world in just about every nation (many waters).
This is why Christians must come out from her and her "protestant" daughters to be saved ( Rev 18:4).
Here's a verse that is widely debated. I think we can determine by looking at the description of her, and the series of events concerning her in Ch 12 and prophecies pointing to those events in the bible. "you'll need your bibles". VS 1, the description, "She was clothed with the sun and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of 12 stars". If we go to Genesis 37:9-10. Joseph dreams and Jacob answers this one for us. Now compare the events in prophecy to Revelation 12. VS 2, She's travailing in birth pains, Isaiah 54:1-5. Is 66:7, ( BEFORE SHE TRAVAILED, SHE BROUGHT FORTH; BEFORE HER PAIN CAME, SHE BROUGHT FORTH A MAN CHILD.) Also look at Micah 4:10, and Micah 5:2-4. Revelation 12:14 say she was given 2 wings of a eagle, a phrase the Lord uses throughout the bible concerning Israel, Exodus 19:4' Isaiah 40:27-31. Deuteronomy 32:10-11. Look at Paul concerning the Israelites in Romans 9:5, "Whose are the fathers, and whom as concerning the flesh Christ came. THE WOMAN IS ISRAEL, Not the church. The church did not exist until after the child was born died on the cross raised the third day went to the father then gave the Holy Spirit to the believers. Thank you.
I did not see your reply, some are not going to my Email for some reason.
I have heard interpretations of who the woman is, Israel, the Church, and some say, Mary.
Rev. 12:1-4
The word wonder Greek semeion, means something extraordinary, or miraculous, mostly translated sign. Sign with a meaning of divine power or purpose made known. Sometimes the word is used to denote a sign of future things these wonders are in heaven, so it is a vision John was shown.
We know the dragon is Satan because scripture says so and most would agree the man child is Jesus the one who will rule all nations with a rod of iron, Psalms 2:9, Revelation 2,12 and 19. The scripture is clear this starts before Jesus was born, the dragon was going to devour the child as soon as it was born. We see this effort of Satan when King Herod ordered not only the killing of all the children in Bethlehem but on all the coasts, from two years old and under.
Rev. 12:5-6 The woman flees to a wilderness prepared by God to be there for 1260 days. This is after the ascension of Jesus, not just after, but in the future. As for the Church is the woman; when the dragon was standing in front of her, Jesus was not yet born, the Church was formed after he was born, the Church did not birth Jesus, the Church is His body.
The woman cannot be Mary, even though she was the mother of Jesus, we are not of the seed of Mary as we see in verse 17, "the remnant of her seed". So, this leaves the third choice, which is Israel. If we look back at Genesis 37:9-10, we see a pretty good picture of this woman.
Israel plays a prominent role in the end-time prophecies of the Bible. Israel will endure into the end times and play a primary part in God's plan for the final days. There are unfulfilled unconditional covenants God made with Israel. "Until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled". The first woe is future.
God bless,
RLW
You state, the sun & the moon will not shine for a time;
Jesus is not literal speaking of sun, moon & the stars
Joseph dreams, Genesis 37:9 that the sun & the moon & the stars bow down & paid homage to him
Jacob interprets it, Genesis 37:10-12 representing him the sun, his mother the moon & his brothers the stars.
Rev 21:23 the Light represents the glory of the knowledge of God, that shines in the heart.
there is no more need of the light from mankind, God now speaks to us through His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, in which all things consist & have their being, that He, Christ might have the preeminence above all created things.
Friends, I ask you to consider all these Scriptures in the Light, which the Spirit gives to us in the Face of Jesus Christ.
In love & truth.
My understanding is, the woman in Revelation 12 is Israel, Genesis 37:9. The woman brought forth a man child who was to rule all nations, this is Jesus, Rev. 2:27 Rev. 19:15. Jesus will return to Israel, Zech. 14:4 Isaiah 11:11-12 Jeremiah 23:3-8 Ezekiel 37:21-25 Rev. 14:1.
Please do not take offense, Robert Breaker is interesting but like I said before some of the things do not line up. Like the Rabbi says 10 jubilees until the Messiah comes and that is calculated to the year 2017. How can that be a sign of what Trump did by moving our embassy to Jerusalem?
My understanding of what John saw in Revelation 12, was the woman, a dragon, and a war in heaven. The woman is Israel who brought forth Jesus, Jesus ascended back to heaven and is on the right side of the Father on the throne, this was almost 2000 years ago. The dragon is Satan, and the war that Satan and his angels are cast down out of heaven to earth and no more place in heaven for them, this is in our future, this will happen when the fulness of the Gentiles become in Romans 11:25.
So, if part of Revelation 12 is in our past, the way Breaker used the images in Rev. 12 to me does not fit. I hope this makes sense and is not offensive. You may have received good information from his video that helps your study.
God bless,
RLW
That's the way I have it in that verse also.
I believe it's used like that here in Genesis 6:9-10 also.
"These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.
And Noah begat three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth."
Also here in Genesis 36.
Now these are the generations of Esau, who is Edom.
Esau took his wives of the daughters of Canaan; Adah the daughter of Elon the Hittite, and Aholibamah the daughter of Anah the daughter of Zibeon the Hivite;
AND THIS GROUP IF PEOPLE GOES ON UNTIL YOU GET TO
Genesis 36:9 and it gives a list of those of Esau in mount Seir.
"And these are the generations of Esau the father of the Edomites in mount Seir:"
IT'S USED THAT WAY IN
GENESIS 37:1-2 ON JACOB'S GENEALOGY.
I see your request was "before dawn " I hope you've made it into another evening.
1st I pray you will never be tempted to hurt, harm or destroy yourself ever. You are created by GOD ALMIGHTY in HIS image. Psalms 139, in Psalms 139:14, it says fearfully & wonderfully made, fearfully meaning; apprehension something bad will happen. Amazingly GOD knew & knows with each of us, we have the potential to do & choose bad._.._however HE created with mercy & calles us "wonderful" keep reading & amazingly we see Psalms 139:17 GOD's thoughts are " precious" towards us, they number more than sand, HIS precious thoughts for & towards us. & like David who wrote Psalms 139:18, we are still with thee, if & when we awake. Difficulties can seem impossible, even people of the Bible went through despairing of life itself, yet everyone that chose life over death, had a better end. In this earth & in the End. Revelation 11:18,
Jesus = Matthew 26:38-42, Luke 24:34,
Jacob aka Israel = Genesis 37:35, Genesis 45:27,
Elijah = 1Kings 19:4, 2Kings 2:11,
Not good; Judas= Matthew 27:4-8, 2Samuel 17:23,
Choose life, that you might live Deuteronomy 30:19,
Hopefully these are helpful
I believe the woman is Israel.
Revelation 12:1 description is the same description of Israel in Genesis 37.
Revelation12:1. "And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the SUN, and the MOON under her feet, and upon her head a crown of TWELVE STARS:"
Genesis 37:9-10.
"And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the SUN and the MOON and the ELEVEN STARS made obeisance to me.
( Verse 10 Jacob interpret the dream for us.)
Vs 10. "And he told it to his father, and to his brethren: and his father rebuked him, and said unto him, What is this dream that thou hast dreamed? Shall I and thy mother and thy brethren indeed come to bow down ourselves to thee to the earth?"
God bless.
My understanding, study for yours.
Different opinions on who the woman is that is clothed with the sun, the moon under her feet, and a crown of twelve stars. Some say the Church, some say Israel, some say Mary. In verse 3 another wonder, a great red dragon that drew a third part of the stars and cast them to earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman ready to devour her child.
Both of these wonders appeared in heaven. The word wonders Greek- semeion, means something extraordinary, or miraculous, mostly translated sign. Sign with a meaning of divine power or purpose made known. Sometimes the word is used to denote a sign of future things.
We know the dragon is Satan because scripture says so and most would agree the man child is Jesus the one who will rule all nations with a rod of iron, Psalms 2:9, Revelation 2:27, 12:5, and 19:15. The scripture is clear this starts before Jesus was born, the dragon was going to devour the child as soon as it was born. We see this effort of Satan when king Herod ordered not only the killing of all the children in Bethlehem but on all the coasts, from two years old and under.
The woman flees to a wilderness prepared by God to be there for 1260 days. This is after the ascension of Jesus, not just after, but in the future. For the Church as being the woman, when the dragon was standing in front of her, Jesus was not yet born, the Church was formed after he was born, the Church did not birth Jesus.
The woman cannot be Mary, even though she was the mother of Jesus, we are not of the seed of Mary as we see in verse 17, "the remnant of her seed". So, this leaves the third choice, which is Israel. If we look back in Genesis, we see a pretty good picture of this woman, Genesis 37:9-10.
Chapter 12 covers the time from before our Lord's birth and ascension to the throne, up to the casting out of heaven of Satan and the fallen angels permanently, Rev.12:8-9, to the start of the Great Tribulation.
God bless,
RLW
And to your other question about Joseph's rise from being a slave and then sold to the Egyptians to then becoming an overseer over Pharaoh's kingdom, you can read about that in Genesis chapters 39 to 41 (that the LORD was with Joseph in spite of a false accusation which put him in prison). If you need other questions answered or commentary on a particular verse, we will be happy to oblige you.
Good answer, you can see with Joseph's dream in Genesis 37:9 The sun and the moon and with Joseph twelve stars, Israel. You can eliminate Mary mother of Jesus for she did not have a remnant. You can eliminate the Church because it did not birth Jesus, it is the body of Christ.
The man child Jesus, the woman, Israel brought forth is to rule all nations with a rood of iron and after His resurrection he ascended to heaven to the right side of God. We see the dragon trying to devour Jesus with Herod, and the killings of all the man children of 2 years old of all the land, Matt. 2:16.
Then after the dragon is cast out of heaven permanently, in vs. 8 no place is found anymore in heaven. Satan is wroth with the woman/Israel and went to make war with the remnant of her seed starting the three- and one-half years tribulation.
God bless,
RLW
That's easily seen in scripture.
The Church didn't bring on the man child "Christ". Revelation 12:5. and Revelation 19:15-16.
Christ brought on the Church!!
Here's just two of many.
Matthew 16:18.
1 Corinthians 3:10-11.
As you said Israel is the woman and she brought on the man child who is Christ. " Romans 9:4-5."
Also Revelation 12:1. parallels with Genesis 37:9-10. It gives a description of who the Sun and the Moon and the twelve stars are.
Now hold on to your hat!
God bless.
Up at the top is the SEARCH BOX. Links for the entire Bible is below that.
It's a really great SEARCH ENGINE, but just for Bible subject.
You can put the word 'Atonement' in the box and hit the arrow >
The engine will fetch every scripture that contains THAT word. You can sort the list; and the engine places the list in book order.
Or you can read either Old Testament verses only
Or, New Testament verses only
With DATES OR HISTORY, you'll have to go on Google. Type it in like this:
"Atonement, history"
Or Commentaries, or Meaning, or teaching
By using all the search options, you'll learn some really awesome information. If search doesn't fetch anything try wording it differently.
If it fetches 10,000 verses; try wording it another way or just look at only OT or NT verses.
Look around on this whole website to see what's in it. If you get lost, just back out and come back in. Curious is good.
The location of the commentary box is below the search box. Touch a scripture and it will highlight Yellow. Scroll down slowly; the Wesley Commentary will appear.
The original Hebrew reads "Hkthnth phsim" which is translated as "tunic of distinction" and further interpreted (by Jews) as "a coat of [many] colours". The Septuagint (Greek) text says "chitona poikilon" which means "tunic of many [colours]".
Interesting question. I clicked on the verse then scrolled down to the Strong's translation info and then viewed other translations on that page and it does appear some interpreted it as a long coat but others many colors. I believe there are some in this forum that speak Hebrew so it would be nice to get their opinion when they read the original Hebrew.
I agree with Richard and this may also help.
The term is also used to describe a Hebrew custom which indicated deep sorrow. Upon the death of a relative or important personage, or when there was a great calamity, it was customary for the Hebrews to tear their garments. Reuben rent his clothes when he found that Joseph had been taken from the pit ( Genesis 37:29). The sons of Jacob rent their clothes when the cup was found in Benjamin's sack ( Genesis 44:13). A messenger came to Eli with his clothes rent to tell of the taking of the ark of God and of the death of his two sons ( 1 Samuel 4:12). David rent his garments when he heard that Absalom had slain his brothers ( 2 Samuel 13:31). See also 2 Samuel 15:32; 2 Kings 18:37; Isaiah 36:22; Jeremiah 41:5. Rending of clothes was also an expression of indignation. The high priest rent his garment when Jesus spoke what he thought was blasphemy ( Matthew 26:65).
God bless.
Genesis 20:3, Numbers 12:6, Jeremiah 23:28, Matthew 1:20, Matthew 2:12,13,19,22, Books of Daniel 2, 4, 7, Matthew 27:19,
Acts 2:17
Hopefully these are helpful
Go on Google. " Type your scripture: Genesis 2:4, commentaries"
It'll bring up several. I like BIBLEHUB. It's fun to look at other websites too ( within the first 5-10 listings)
>> Pulpit Commentary
Verse 4. - These are the generations is the usual heading for the different sections into which the Book of Genesis is divided (vial. Genesis 5:1; Genesis 6:9; Genesis 10:1; Genesis 11:10, 27; Genesis 25:12, 19; Genesis 36:1; Genesis 37:2).
All of these proposals are, however, rendered unnecessary by simply observing that toldoth (from yaladh, to bear, to beget; hence begettings, procreations, evolutions, developments) does not describe the antecedents, but the consequents, of either thing or Person (Rosen., Keil, Kalisch).
>>[Keil and Delitzsch Biblical Commentary on the Old Testament]
The historical account of the world, which commences at the completion of the work of creation, is introduced as the "History of the heavens and the earth," and treats in three sections, (a) of the original condition of man in paradise ( Genesis 2:5-25); (b) of the fall ( Genesis 3); (c) of the division of the human race into two widely different families, so far as concerns their relation to God ( Genesis 4).
Sometimes we have to work at "unlearning" what someone tells us the Bible says. GOD's WORD is a "living Word" it teaches, corrects, edifies._.. 2 Timothy 3:16, & gives us wisdom. James 1:5,
Genesis 34, is the account. Notice : Genesis 34:2, they were Hivite
Exodus 23:28, Exodus 34:11, Exodus 33:2, Genesis 10:15-19, Joshua 9,
Hopefully this is all helpful.
Thank you "GiGi" for pointing out her approximate age through scriptural knowledge. Genesis 30:19-31, Genesis 31:38-41,
Genesis 33:13-17, it says after they met Esau, they built a house & booths for cattle it doesn't say exactly how long they were there. It appears they may have left when Joseph was about 6 yrs. old because Genesis 31:41, But it was before Joseph was 17, Dinah seems to be older sister, they then pitched a tent._ Genesis 33:18-20 The only accounts of age we're given is Joseph was born & Genesis 30:25, Genesis 37:1-2, yet Joseph went to find his brethren in (Shechem) so was this timing, a historical account putting both situations about the same time? Genesis 37:11-14, because later Israel/Jacob tells Joseph about his mother's death & burial, that happened on Journey Genesis 35:1, Genesis 35:15-20, Genesis 35:27-29, Genesis 48:1-7, Genesis 45:25, Genesis 46:6,
literally making Egypt the wealthiest in the world at that time also of God changing situations in His life from lemons to lemonade because he believed.
In Egypt, Joseph was sold to Potiphar, an official of the Pharaoh. Rueben was very upset when he came to the cistern and found Joseph gone. He did not know what had happened to Joseph.
Then the brothers covered up their plot by taking his coat, killing a kid goat, and soaking the coat in the blood. Jacob was none the wiser in tis matter. When the sons came with the bloody coat he was convinced that Joseph had died from an animal attack even though Joseph's body was no where to be found. Jacob grieved long and hard for Joseph. The brothers tried to comfort their father, but he was not easily comforted.
This is when the story ends.
Joseph was a dreamer, given this gift from God. It is not revealed how aware Joseph was of God and how closely he followed Him. His character and relationship with God will be tested in the years to come.
Joseph was 17 in this chapter. So, for 17 years, his brother had witnessed how their father favored and pampered Joseph. He did not work in the fields with his brothers, even though he was old enough to do so. He was given finer clothing than them. Their father allowed Joseph to snitch on his brothers. Was Jacob aware of how damaging this favoring was to his other sons? I am the fourth of ten children in my family. Growing up we did have discussions and arguments about who was favored by my parents. They tried not to favor any of us, but they made comments that led to us thinking some were more of a "golden child" than others. But we never hated our siblings.
Joseph was given dreams from God. I don't think Joseph really knew quite how to handle these dreams and so wanted to tell others to find some answers, perhaps. Maybe he did want to lord it over his brothers a bit. He was not perfect.
Telling his brothers ended up being for the good because, in time, they all would be reminded of these dreams from many years past when in Egypt. I wonder if the multiple colors of the coat was significant. Any help on this?
Perhaps it was just that it was considered expensive, extravagant, or time consuming to dye so many different colors before spinning into threads to create the coat.
His brothers were jealous of Joseph and hated him. They commiserated together over this while working in the fields. They were old enough to have married and began families of their own by this time. Jacob sending Joseph out to see how the work was going was not welcome, since he often would bring back a bad report about them.
Luke 1:1-4, you can continue to read by clicking read full chapter the scroll down, click tab on edges to next chapter, etc. Many people enjoy Psalms, I didn't enjoy it as much as a new beginner study but do enjoy it much more now after years of study.
Psalms 1:1-3,
U may enjoy Exodus, which actually begins in Genesis 37:1-36, continues : Genesis 39:1-23, Genesis 40:1-23, Genesis 41:1-57, Genesis 42:1-38, Genesis 43:1-34, Genesis 44:1-34,
[Note this scripture chapter 44, Genesis, if you noticed we skipped Genesis 38, because it jumps from Joseph to Judah. Now if you read Genesis 38:1-30, you can understand a few things on deeper level = Judah maybe knows painful loss of children at this point in his life & even the difference of love towards children of his "loved wife". Next very importance of Judah's sacrifice for others, resemblance of Jesus sacrifice being beloved Son of GOD. John 3:16, ]also interesting Tamar, bore to Judah the son in Jesus documented lineage Matthew 1:1-3]
Back to story : Genesis 45:1-28, (forgiveness), Genesis 46:1-34, Genesis 47:1-12 (Redemption) Genesis 47:27-31,
Now note: Genesis 47:13-26 , Genesis 12:1-3, Genesis 12:10, Genesis 12:11-16, * Genesis 12:13-20, Genesis 16:3, Genesis 16:6-11, Genesis 15:13-14, Genesis 21:8-21, my own opinion Deuteronomy 32:35-36, Romans 12:19.
These moments in Genesis leading up to how & why Israel came into bondage. Exodus 1:1-8, continue reading Exodus 1:22, please continue to read all of Exodus.
One more encouraging note :) Hebrews 11:22, Psalms 105:1-45,
Furthermore on this site under the 1611 Version tab you can scroll to see more history on the Bible.
Hopefully these inspire a new lifetime desire of deeper study
The believe the Woman is Israel, If you take it from verse 5 it says she brought forth a Man Child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron. That's the Lord Jesus Christ. The church didn't come along and birth Christ. Christ came along to build his Church.
Revelation 12:4-6. And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
AND SHE BROUGHT FORTH A MAN CHILD, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
Also in verse 1 You see a description of her that parallels with her in Genesis 37 when Joseph dreamed. Jacob interpreted the dream by the sum, moon, and stars mentioned.
Revelation 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman CLOTHED WITH THE SUN, AND THE MOON UNDER HER FEET, AND UPON HER HEAD A CROWN OF TWELVE STARS:
Genesis 37:9-10. And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, THE SUN AND THE MOON AND THE ELEVEN STARS MADE OBEISANCE TO ME.
And he told it to his father, and to his brethren: and his father rebuked him, and said unto him, WHAT IS THIS DREAM THAT THOU HAST DREAMED? SHALL I AND THY MOTHER AND THY BRETHREN indeed come to bow down ourselves to thee to the earth?
God bless.
Great question!
Revelation 12:1
12 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
Genesis 37:9-10
9 And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.
10 And he told it to his father, and to his brethren: and his father rebuked him, and said unto him, What is this dream that thou hast dreamed? Shall I and thy mother and thy brethren indeed come to bow down ourselves to thee to the earth?
From this passage of Scripture speaking of Joseph and the dream he was given; we can see that the woman with the 12 stars and the sun and the moon referenced in Revelation 12 is Israel.
The dragon is obviously that old serpent our defeated foe (satan).
And the water represents nations or people that will attack Israel during the time of Jacob's trouble/the great tribulation, but she will flee to the valley in the mountains prophesied in Zechariah 14 (I believe) that God hath prepared for her.
Later John writes about MYSTERY BABYLON MOTHER OF HARLOTS (the roman catholic church) that sits upon many waters. We can see that the roman emperor (the pope) has his "churches" all over the world in just about every nation (many waters).
This is why Christians must come out from her and her "protestant" daughters to be saved ( Rev 18:4).
I hope this helps you Carla.
Be well in Jesus' name,
Andrew
Here's a verse that is widely debated. I think we can determine by looking at the description of her, and the series of events concerning her in Ch 12 and prophecies pointing to those events in the bible. "you'll need your bibles". VS 1, the description, "She was clothed with the sun and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of 12 stars". If we go to Genesis 37:9-10. Joseph dreams and Jacob answers this one for us. Now compare the events in prophecy to Revelation 12. VS 2, She's travailing in birth pains, Isaiah 54:1-5. Is 66:7, ( BEFORE SHE TRAVAILED, SHE BROUGHT FORTH; BEFORE HER PAIN CAME, SHE BROUGHT FORTH A MAN CHILD.) Also look at Micah 4:10, and Micah 5:2-4. Revelation 12:14 say she was given 2 wings of a eagle, a phrase the Lord uses throughout the bible concerning Israel, Exodus 19:4' Isaiah 40:27-31. Deuteronomy 32:10-11. Look at Paul concerning the Israelites in Romans 9:5, "Whose are the fathers, and whom as concerning the flesh Christ came. THE WOMAN IS ISRAEL, Not the church. The church did not exist until after the child was born died on the cross raised the third day went to the father then gave the Holy Spirit to the believers. Thank you.