Concluding thoughts for now on the enemy of our souls.
I will attempt to wrap this up for now; although admittedly this is a subject which could easily call for many more postings. God in His infinite yet mysterious plans allowed for a created being to usurp 1/3 of the angels; and to deceive most of mankind throughout history. ( Matthew 7:13-14). Through the offspring mentioned in Genesis 6 he produced numerous giant beings (I can't see it being any other explanation) and therefore only Noah and his family were saved at the flood as it seems all the rest of mankind was corrupted genetically and by default morally beyond repair. (see Genesis 6:9 on Noah being "perfect in his generations"). He also later attempted the same thing on a more limited scale after the flood; resulting in Israel wiping out all the giants (with Goliath being the last one in the surrounding nations Israel had to conquer). Satan continued to attempt to wipe out all of God's people by the ordinance of Haman to wipe out all the Jews which was thwarted in Esther; the Holocaust and will almost succeed in Armageddon when half of Jerusalem is taken before Christ returns. He is the god of this world and Jesus didn't argue with him having control as a "usurper" type leader of all the Kingdoms of the world. Satan also will be given the limited short space of the last half of the Tribulation to more or less control the world but again he will fail to totally destroy the earth because God Himself makes the time short (see Matthew 24:22). Again; God is the one who allows these things; including the "strong delusion" He sends to decieve all those who didn't LOVE the truth but enjoyed unrighteousness ( 2 Thess. 2:11-12 rough translation). Once again at the end of the Millennium he has the final stand; which ends in his judgment cast into hell; and a mass of people as the sand of the sea; amazingly perishing despite seeing Christ on earth and living a utopian existance in the millennium.
As it was in days of Noah,so it will be in the days of the Son of man.They ate,drank,married,gave in marriage,until the day Noah entered the ark,the flood came and destroyed them all.So"This was the"modus vivendi" in Noahs'days.
We would say it was the same 'modus vivendi' of society in recent times,say around 1950-1985,it was similar to society in the days of Noah.It was common to eat and drink with development of large malls around the world at that time,it was common the celebration of weddings,existence of strong family ties,but as time went by,it began to deteriorate morally as in the time of Noah,when the sons of GOD mixed their seed with seed of the evil ones,giving rise to a corrupt and evil society- Genesis 6:2-3, due to the proliferation of adulterers and adulteresses.And the punishment came,yes,the flood came and only 8 people were saved by the Ark.
Comparing the society of Noah's days with a posterior society of Sodom and Gomorrah,at the time of Lot,let's see the differences,according Scriptures:
Luke 17:28-30 reveal:
28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day (in the current time) when the Son of man is revealed.
society of Noah's day..........................society of Sodom/Gomorrah
they ate and drank ..............................they ate and drank
they married and gave in marriage ....they bought and sold,they planted and built
Men of Sodom were wicked,immoral exceedingly,and sinners before the Lord- Genesis 13:13.There was no marriage,society was polluted of prostitutes,sodomites/ effeminate(gays),society was infested of prostitution and great sinners. The same occurs today. Lot was vexed with filthy conversations seeing and hearing their unlawful deeds- 2Peter 2:7-8 & Jude 1:6-7.
Look at earlier postings about ideas related to genetic DNA manipulation to render someone not human and therefore unredeemable. This would explain the wholesale destruction of all men except for Noah and his immediate family who was said to be "perfect" in his generations. ( Gen. 6:9). This would almost certainly have a primary reference to his genetic line not being contaminated with the sons of the giants or "men of renown" mentioned in Genesis 6:4. Christ came to redeem men not hybrid creatures and naturally angels that fell would also be unredeemable. Whether this business would be sold as an "evolutionary leap" or promise immortality or both is uncertain; but the "strong delusion" ultimately is sent by God; therefore men will worship the Beast and of course Satan who empowers him. The idea of rebellion comes to mind with what Cain did; and the original concept of the tower of Babel will come to its fruition "bringing the whole world together" in unity; so to speak.
The Tribulation likely begins with one man controlling all of the earth's wealth. That is seen in prophecies in Daniel 11:38 and prophecies such as him "dividing the land for gain" ( Daniel 11:39). See also Habukkuk 2:9 and the whole chapter there to see the consolidation of wealth. Despite his control of the 10 nation beast empire; we see in Revelation that the nations from the east and north amass to go after him. (sixth trumpet starting Revelation 9:13.) Therefore, he may have control over everyone economically but nations will still fight him. By Armageddon in Meddigo at least it appears all are damned after they are enticed to gather by the 3 demons from the frog like spirits coming from the "unholy" trinity. After fighting each other they turn and fight Christ which of course is futile. THose in the Ezekiel 38 campaign however have one sixth remain; I am guessing some don't have the mark and make it into the Millennium. I may discuss that later.
The sin of the sons of God having relations with women ( Gen. 6:2) and the resulting hybrid offspring seems to be clear as written; although some take it as some symbolic event. People often try to make a spurious claim of these being offspring of Cain and ignore the fact that all mankind was judged at the flood except for Noah and his immediate family (who I would say Genesis 6:9 indicates that his seed wasn't corrupted as the rest of mankind when it mentions that he was "perfect in his generations")
Science seems to indicate several mass extinctions separated by aeons of time; the greatest of which I believe is stated to be in the Cambrian mass extinction event the better part of 1 billion years ago; and the later one wiping out the dinosaurs and other creatures some 65 million years or so. What it can't explain; of course is how undigested food is found in dinosaurs that were obviously frozen to death in mass graves along with other complexities where trees; and catastrophic destruction of trees and other evidence clearly indicating a mass inundation of flood waters. As I alluded to in the first post today there is more than ample evidence of giant and advanced structures (pyramids in various countries; Balbak (or however it is spelled) and other giant sized structure found in islands in the Mediterranean and elsewhere in the world such as Stonehenge which defy explanation as to how the stones were moved and how they were cut to reflect advanced technology and often tied in with regular astronomical events with the direction they are facing.
Christians at least up until recently have understood that man's evil resulted in collateral damage to the rest of creation which continues to groan up until today ( Romans 8:19-22). It would seem that the last evil Satan is going to bring to pass after the mass appeal of alternate sexual lifestyles is a merging with AI. This guarantees damnation as Revelation promises.
Perfect people in the bible, do they exist or is Jesus the only perfect one? We hear so much about how only Jesus is perfect from almost every Christian and yet, they can not find any scripture or any verse to back up their false claim. The apostle Paul said this:
Titus 1:16] They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
Christanity rebells when they have to be perfect thry immediately pass it on to Jesus when Jesus preached in Matthew 5:48 we (human beings) have to be perfect even as our Father which is in heaven is perfect. Why does Christanity argue agianst Jesus? Because they were never told the truth. Let's look in the bible to find more perfect people before, during and after, Jesus. Adam and Eve were in Genesis 1&2 before thry heard another gospel in Genesis 3 from Rev Serpant/Rev Devil.
Before: Genesis 6:9] These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.
Genesis 17:1] And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.
Deuteronomy 18:13] Thou shalt be perfect with the LORD thy God.
Job 1:1] There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.
2nd Chronicals 16:9] For the eyes of the LORD run to and fro throughout the whole earth, to shew himself strong in the behalf of them whose heart is perfect toward him. Herein thou hast done foolishly: therefore from henceforth thou shalt have wars.
Psalm 37:37] Mark the perfect man, and behold the upright: for the end of that man is peace.
During Jesus:
Matthew 1:[19] Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily.
Hey, greetings.. sorry for the intrusion, but Jesus did not go to hell, or anywhere else while dead. This is a common misunderstanding of the biblical text in Peter. If you notice in Peter 3:18... being put to death in the flesh, but quickened (made alive) by the Spirit.. the subject is the spirit, the next words are.. By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; which sometime were disobedient, when once the long suffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared... notice Genesis 6:3.. And the Lord said, My Spirit..(Spirit) will not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be 120 years. So.. the Spirit of God was "preached" through Noah to the "disobedient" to call them to repentance for 120 years while preparing the ark. There is no abode of the dead until the judgement. The word prison is used to illustrate the state of being bound, similar to the use of .. "chains under darkness" in Jude. It is understood that hades is a term commonly used for
Hey, greetings.. I just wanted to chime in, sorry for the intrusion. Jesus didn't go preach to anyone while dead. This is a rather "popular misunderstanding" of the biblical text. If you notice in 1 Peter 3:18 ... while speaking of Christ, says..For Christ also has once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:.. the subject is (The Spirit).. verse 19, By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; v 20Which sometime were disobedient,when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared.. Genesis 6:3, MY Spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he is also flesh; yet his days shall be 120 yrs... so Noah "preached" to the disobedient people through the same "Spirit" for 120 years to repent while preparing the ark.
Christ was the "Lamb slain from the foundation of the world." Rev 13:8
Hebrews 4:2,3 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
Hebrews 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
Romans 3:10,11 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Genesis 6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.
And I Chris, find no Biblical support for your understanding of the Salvation of Old Testament Believers.
What you have said is not supported when comparing scripture with scripture throughout the WHOLE Bible. And your understanding does not address the many verses I have quoted regarding this subject and stems, I believe and am sorry to say, from a failure to recognize that that the Bible Alone and in its Entirety is, in fact, the ONE TRUE GODPEL OF SALVATION.
When you say that the Holy Spirit was not active in Salvation during the OT you are in essence saying that God was not active in Salvation.
When you say that the there was some efficacy toward Salvation in the sacrifices of the OT it is like saying that there is some efficacy in water baptism during the Church Age toward Salvation. And that is a Gospel of Grace plus Works which CANNOT save.
Noah was a sinner, just like everyone that God saves during the NT. "But Noah found GRACE in the eyes of the LORD." Genesis 6:8; just like every True Believer throughout the history of the world. And when Noah died physically, his body returned to the dust and he went to be with Christ in Heaven in his soul existence, just like every True Believer throughout the history of the world. He did not go to a place called Hades. Why? Because God had given him a new Resurrected Soul when God saved him, just like every True Believer throughout the history of the world. And the basis for Noah's Salvation was the Atonement of Christ, God Himself, Just like every true believer throughout the history of the world.
So once again, Chris, there is one and only one Salvation. One and only one True Gospel. And that gospel is circumscribed by the Bible ALONE and it's ENTIRETY.
Since I have some time to spare; and this probably won't be a high response posting; I'll make a few observations.
Noah was 600; and one could argue it is a typology of the 6000 years of the earth's existence before the Tribulation; followed by the 1000 years of the Millennium by 2 Peter 3:8.
In the time before the flood known as "Antidiluvian"; clearly men lived longer than afterwards. Thus; Adam and many of his progeny lived for 900 plus years; interestingly no one made it quite to 1000; which may be reserved to those who survive in the Millennium due to long life spans once again at that time with a paradise type of earth; albeit still with fallen men (see Isaiah 65:20). There was therefore the likelihood that many were only 2 or 3 generations from Adam by the time the flood came along; so that secondhand accounts of God's story of creation would leave wicked men without excuse. Enoch lived interestingly enough 365 years then was taken; perhaps somehow indicating a day symbolizing a year (although the old calendar was 360 days old); God also told Noah that He would only contend with men 120 years in Genesis 6:3 which could indicate their future lifespan limit; or the time left before the flood from that point.
In any case; God is longsuffering not wishing anyone to perish. ( 2 PEter 3:9). It is interesting that this verse is right after the one above that I quoted; and certainly explains why He waited so long to judge. Noah was a "preacher of righteousness" ( 2 Peter 2:5) but the narrative shows that only 8 were saved in the boat; and they were his immediate family. Sodom's destruction also followed a similar vein; in that case only Lot; his 2 daughters and wife came out of the city; and his wife turned back and was destroyed. In the flood; Nephilim would have contaminated man's bloodline as I see it from Genesis 6:9 that explains why no one else COULD be saved. His patience is seen with Sodom as well ( Gen. 18:32).
I don't think you will find it worded the way you worded it in your post with the actual word "Immediately".
But salvation is immediate when one truly believes and throughout the scripture it teaches that.
Actually in your original post you mentioned "some saying this before judgment".
I believe in your past posts you believes no one knows they're saved until Judgment.
The response from most of us is that a Christian is not part of that Judgment.
However we won't get into that here.
Here's what I will like to declare yo you.
I honestly believe there has been verses given that declares what you are looking for. And the Bible as a whole speaks on this aspect.
God spoke also in types that speaks on this.
Here's a few examples;
When God destroyed Sodom, When was lot saved?
When he left?
To answer that we would have to ask, When was he declared righteous.
God told Abraham he wouldn't destroy it if he found so many righteous. But do you notice the Angels wouldn't do anything until Lot was out of there!!
Genesis 19:21-22.
So was Lot saved before or after Judgment?
Let's look at Noah's Ark in the same light. When was Noah declared righteous?
When the Ark doors opened and closed or when God told him to start building it? Genesis 6:8. (The ark is a type.)
Adam, Galatians 4:28 says "Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
When we look at the story of Abraham getting ready to offer up Isaac as a sacrifice, If you study that carefully you'll see Abraham had faith before he started his journey! In Genesis 22:7-8 Isaac asked Abraham where is the Lamb for the burnt offering?
Abraham said, God will provide himself a burt offering!!
Abraham knew Isaac was the Child God promised would be his heir and he would have to raise him from the dead.
We're children of promise also!
By faith we're joint heirs of the promise with Abraham. God keeps his covenants and promises.
This is just my opinion; when Adam and Eve ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil the knowledge of imagination entered, and we see how imagination of thoughts became the desires of the flesh. Imagination makes it possible to experience a whole world inside the mind. One can imagine a sound, taste, smell, physical sensation, feeling, emotion. Fantasy becomes reality in our mind.
We see in scripture its effects Genesis 6:5Proverbs 6:18Jeremiah 13:10 it battles against our conscience, and it suckers us into the belief it is a secret in our minds, it's ok because no one knows. But as David told Solomon God knows the hearts of all, 1 Chronicles 28:9.
Technology is good and beneficial to man but in our imagination, it is intoxicating and addictive, it can create a world with no limits and Satan uses it for his evil and it may be a key to the seduction of the beast and false prophet who are coming. Deceived has a scary and deceptive description, to be taken out of the way, the sad thing someone may not even know it. Galatians 6:7-10
It is like the poem the spider to the fly. "Will you walk into my parlour said the spider to the fly; Tis the prettiest little parlour that ever you did spy". A temptation that looks innocent, but death lurks hidden inside.
If we go back to Eve. she gave birth ( Genesis 1:27,28;4:1,2;5:25). some of these offspring's died by means of old age,
Genesis 3:19; Genesis 6:3, violance or destroyed by the flood ( Genesis 6:5-7,11-13;17). Only Noah his wife, Shem, Ham, and Japheth their 3 wives survived. that means only eight people survived out of Adams and eve's children and grand children.
The point! not all of Noah's children listened to God. They followed Satan the devil and his lies Genesis 3. when you read about the Canaanites ( Genesis 13:7; Leviticus 18:1-5) this bad nation came through Ham descendance ( Genesis 10:6). or Ammorites, some Noah's descendance created a nation by their family name Genesis 11. When Jehovah ( psalm 83:18) confused their language they all spread out and became nations of people like you see today.
to the point: Abraham was a righteous man who lived in Canaan. but one of God's angels told him to leave Canaan then became a father to a nation of Israel ( Genesis 17:1-8). God name Jacob Israel ( Genesis 32:28). this is how a Nation of Isreal came about. Canaan land later became Jerusalem belonging to Israel the Jews.
However, Israel repeatedly sinned by worshiping other gods. even Solomon the last king worshiped false Gods ( Nehemiah 13:23-27) Jesus turned to the Gentiles which means nation who will believe ( John 3:16,17).
However, their are some Israelites who did believe, but most rejected Jesus.- Acts 1:6-8; Matthew 24:14; 2 Timothy 3:13-17
It's a lot of info. but I hope the bible answered your question HOW A NATION BECAME A INDEPENDANT NATION
My purpose when answering that post from Yasser was not actually to dig deep in the Word of God but just simplify it in a simple answer.
I also believe that there will not be an Israelitic Kingdom on this earth, neither in the futute earth. Those promises that were said for Israel by God were and are still fulfilled in the church. The only promise that is left yet for Hebrews is their salvation. And we know that that will take place during the antichrist's rule on this earth at the end. Besides according to the scriptures there is no room left for an Israelitic kingdom. it is not going to happen now, neither in the last week, neither in the millenium, neither on the new earth that will be creared by God after the final Judgement.
I don't believe that there are different requirements for Hebrews and gentiles as far as salvation is concerned. We all are justified by the Blood of the Lamb.
What I wanted to say is:
In the O.T. there were people who tried to be righteous, they made efforts to follow God's Will. But like all people they were doing sins. So we have people that did righteous things but also sins. So they were in a sence righteous, this is called MAN'S RIGHTEOUSNESS. It is not a perfect righteousness, actually it is far far away from what God calls righteousness. But still God sometimes called them rightous because He appriciated their efforts, like Zacharias and Elisabeth in Luke 1:6, "And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.". Also Noe is called righteous, Genesis 6:8-9, "But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God."
Also read Ezekiel 14:14, "Though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousness, saith the Lord GOD."
According to Genesis 4:15; a mark set upon Cain was to cause vengeance to anyone who would attempt to take his life. Compare this to the Mark of the Beast in Revelation 13 and we find some interesting parallels.
First; Satan was a "murderer from the beginning." ( John 8:44). It is no surprise that the first child of Adam was to be attacked after Adam and Eve fell. Having failed the test of God he let temptation rule over him and slayed Abel his brother. Satan is also said to steal and destroy ( John 10:10) along with his lying. We see the progeny of Adam and Eve being destroyed; along with stealing from the parents being able to give an inheritance and Abel receiving it.
Later on in Genesis 4:24 Lamech tries to gain vengeance by his declaration of seventy times seventy for himself for his own violent actions. Kind of like the opposite of forgiveness for the same in Matthew 18:21-22.
The apparent resurrection of Antichrist from a deadly wound as well as being able to kill the two prophets that tormented men will inspire him to declare indestructibility as well as being able to effectively fight against God. He will likely convince men that he can live forever by merging with AI; and likely the DNA of the Nephilim or something to that affect will be part of that plan; as it was in Genesis 6 when all the descendants of men were destroyed for that reason (see Genesis 6:8-9 on Noah being perfect in his generations). Hence at that time we saw no repentance except for Noah; his wife; his 3 sons and their wives.
Whatever the case men will be unredeemable once they take the mark ( Revelation 14:9 and other passages). That will be the fulfillment of 2 Thessalonians 2:11 where people willingly reject the truth and believe The Lie.
The verse on those who dwell on the earth ( Revelation 11:10; also see Revelation 6:10 and other passages) indicates the sea of lost humanity. Revelation 13:8 concludes this for all unsaved.
Hi Eric. The way I understand Genesis 6:3, is that the LORD is giving mankind 120 years of life till He wipes them out. So, "yet his days" don't refer to the 'new' lifespan of humans, but to the remaining days that man has on Earth. All would be wiped out, but Noah & his family "found grace in the eyes of the LORD". And within that time frame of 120 years, Noah was given the plans for building the Ark, collecting the wood & beams, building it, collecting the animals & food to sustain them all, until God shut the door & brought the rain.
It didn't take Noah that long to build the Ark (some have calculated the figure should be around 70 years), but from God's announcement of 120 years left for mankind's life on Earth, there would have been a long period (long, for us today) between the announcement & the start of the building work & the coming of the rain.
Yes JRR, the word 'flesh' can be taken to apply to only mankind; but the Bible does speak of 'other' flesh. As the Apostle Paul referred to this in 1 Corinthians 15:38,39: "But God giveth it (i.e. the seed by God that contains the necessary constituents to form a particular organism), (gives it) a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body. All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds." So, I believe that Genesis 6:18-20, speaks of the various categories of 'flesh' & not to the many tribes & families that exist as human beings.
And back to the Kenite origins. I have seen opinions that indicate that the Kenites descended from Cain, hence not all flesh were destroyed by the flood. And yet, we get an example in Judges 1:16 indicating that Jethro, Moses' father-in-law, was a Kenite. And then in Numbers 10:29, Jethro is referred to as Raguel (also called 'Reuel' in Exodus 2:18), as a Midianite. What would you make of this? We know that it is the same man, Jethro, that is referred to, but can we assume a connection between the two families (Kenites & Midianites)? If there is and we go back to the immediate descendants of Noah's sons, we can follow the descendency from Shem through to Terah to Abram to Midian (through Keturah): Genesis 10:21-31; Genesis 11:10-32; Genesis 25:1-4 (here, we see Midian born to Abraham through Keturah, of whom (Midian), Jethro is connected to. If Jethro is also recorded as being a Kenite, there must be another family line coming through Midian (maybe through a daughter, not mentioned (only sons) in Genesis 25:4).
So, it appears that we must be open to the possibility that the Kenites were not from Cain (as much as a similarity exists in those names), but could have come through the descendants of Shem & the Abraham.
I believe it's used like that here in Genesis 6:9-10 also.
"These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.
And Noah begat three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth."
Also here in Genesis 36.
Now these are the generations of Esau, who is Edom.
Esau took his wives of the daughters of Canaan; Adah the daughter of Elon the Hittite, and Aholibamah the daughter of Anah the daughter of Zibeon the Hivite;
AND THIS GROUP IF PEOPLE GOES ON UNTIL YOU GET TO
Genesis 36:9 and it gives a list of those of Esau in mount Seir.
"And these are the generations of Esau the father of the Edomites in mount Seir:"
I agree with Brother Chris, it's hard to come up with any scripture that is conclusive.
However I would like to present a theory
I Genesis 6:9 it says;
These are the generations of Noah: NOAH WAS A JUST MAN AND "PERFECT IN HIS GENERATIONS", and Noah walked with God.
This came right before verses 4-5 when he said vs 4-"There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when THE SONS OF GOD CAME IN UNTO THE DAUGHTERS OF MEN, ( AND THEY BARE CHILDREN TO THEM ), the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
( Verse 4 the women bare children to the Giants, "No particular line as shown in Genesis6:2." This includes daughters of Seth. )
LOOK AT VERSE 5 AT WHAT SEEMS TO BE THE OUTCOME.
vs 5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Vs 6. And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
There is two things to note about Noah in these next 3 verses,
Why was he chosen? Because he was sinless? I don't think so, Vs 8 says Noah found "GRACE" in the eyes of the LORD. "GRACE is unmerited favor." Vs 9 says he was a just man. "We're justified by faith"
Genesis 6:7-9.
I believe Noah was justified the same way Abel was. "By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain," Hebrews 11:4.
So that brings us to a phrase in verse 9. Noah was "PERFECT IN HIS GENERATIONS"
If you read Genesis 6:2-11 on through it seems as though Man had 2 issues. They didn't find grace in the Lords eyes because of lack of faith and there were those whos Genealogy was contaminated. "Perhaps by the Son's of God.
We don't know if Shem, Ham, and Japheth wives were or not. Nor do we know about Noah's wife.
Hi JRR. That of course, is a good question, to which no conclusive reply can be given; just as many other aspects of the Bible that provide no certain understanding because of lack of information.
As examples, we know what Genesis 6:4 and Numbers 13:33 tell us. The pre-flood nephilim are described as the product of the union of the sons of God with the daughters of men. We can choose to read this as 'every offspring that they had, produced giant-like men (& women)'. Could they also have produced more 'normal' sized offspring? We're not told - only an assumption & probably not a far-fetched one at that.
Then we see nephilim appear post-flood. We can't deny this reality because the Word gives it to us, so there must be an answer. But whatever the correct answer, it would be wrong to throw out or amend Scriptures such as Genesis 7:7 & 1 Peter 3:20 which tell us that only eight souls (of human-kind) were saved, to the destruction of all other humans. Therefore, based on this Truth, we could come up with opinions, such as, could the sons of God (maybe seen as the line of Shem, and previously, written of Seth), also inter-mixed with the daughters of men (maybe products of Ham & Japheth, & previously, of Cain), & produced giant offspring? So, the mention of giants anywhere in the Bible should not denote that giants were evil people because of their size, but that is how they grew, maybe arising from aberrations (read, birth defect), as the descendants of their first fathers grew in number & inter-mixed. Obviously, not every birth produced giants, but there were many in those days, as there are even some today.
So really, we are not given definitive answers, & even what I've given as a possibility, remains only that. But I think we can be certain, if the Bible says that all humans were destroyed because of their gross sins, then we must accept that as fact. As well, the Anakim were not judged as the old world was - giantism was never a sin.
Did Enoch not die in the flood? No. He is with the Father.
If Cain's descendents died in the flood, why are the Kenites talked about after the flood? Numbers 24:21-22 further showing that Kenites came from Cain and survived the flood.
The sons of Anak the Anakin also survived the flood. They were the giants in Genesis 6:4 & Numbers 13:33.
It is written that Noah brought on the ark two of ALL unclean flesh and seven pairs of clean flesh. Then he was to bring the animals,birds and insects.
The animals are mentioned AFTER all flesh.
Why do they the Kenites walk the earth now? They claim to be Jews but are not. Name stealers.
As always, thank you for helping us to dig deeper in the original language and study scripture words and even letters as I believe often makes a big difference!
I tend to hold view of the sons of God/disrobed Angel's theory.
"uirau(andthey-are-seeing) bni(sons-of) ealeim (theElohim) ath bnuth(daughters-of) eadm (thehuman) ..."
It talks about the sons of Elohim. But IF in this case the word El/Elohim means mighty/strong and not God then it is going to be "That the sons of the mighty saw the daughters of men ..." Who are the sons of the mighty? They are the giants described in verse 4. That is why the children of those with the daughters of other people were mighty (giants in the Septuagint). Because neither the "Angelic" nor the "Sethite" theories can explain why their children were also mighty (or giants according to the Septuagint). So if this is right then the text says that the sons of the giants liked the daughters of other men and took them as wives who bare children to them, giants like them. Well, it makes sense to be honest. It is not what I believe, I actually tend towards the "Sethite" theory but searching on the net for information I got that staff, maybe it is worth thinking about it.
Apart from the "Sethite" and "Angel" views there is another view as well.
Introduction: The word "El", prural "Elohim" means not only God/s in Hebr but it comes from a root word for strong, powerful, mighty, noble, Judge etc.
Example. Psalm 82:1, "God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods." (KJV).
Lets see in Hebr, "Aleim(Elohim) ntzb (one-being-stationed) bodth(incongregation-of) al(El) b qrb(inwithin-of) aleim(Elohim) - taken from the Online Hebrew Interlinear Bible).
The expression "congregation of El" is translated as "congregation of the mighty" in KJV as it should be since the word "El" in this case means "mighty", not "God". This is how this specific verse is translated in almost all Bibles. But I found out that the Septuagint text translates it differently, i.e. "God stands in the congregation of gods, he sees among the gods". That version translates the word "El" as "God", not "mighty". I am writting all those to make you understand that in Hebrew "El" apart from God it also means all those I wrote above.
So lets go to Genesis 6:1-4
"1- And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, 2 - That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; ... 3 - And the LORD .... 4 - There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men(giants in the Septuagint text) which were of old, men of renown." (KJV)
The part of Gen. 6 that is being discussed was only vs. 1-4, about the sons of God and mating with the daughters of men (ha-a-dam). The "sons of God" are only 5 times in the Old Testament, and the Son of God was said once in Daniel 3. I believe I listed all of the scripture that has the sons of God where all references are to angels.
I could write more but I usually keep it short, but it would not change my understanding. Not all understand it the same and that's ok. If you have another view, you want me to see please show it, I always study what is not the same as my understanding. Truth is what is important not being right or wrong.
I will attempt to wrap this up for now; although admittedly this is a subject which could easily call for many more postings. God in His infinite yet mysterious plans allowed for a created being to usurp 1/3 of the angels; and to deceive most of mankind throughout history. ( Matthew 7:13-14). Through the offspring mentioned in Genesis 6 he produced numerous giant beings (I can't see it being any other explanation) and therefore only Noah and his family were saved at the flood as it seems all the rest of mankind was corrupted genetically and by default morally beyond repair. (see Genesis 6:9 on Noah being "perfect in his generations"). He also later attempted the same thing on a more limited scale after the flood; resulting in Israel wiping out all the giants (with Goliath being the last one in the surrounding nations Israel had to conquer). Satan continued to attempt to wipe out all of God's people by the ordinance of Haman to wipe out all the Jews which was thwarted in Esther; the Holocaust and will almost succeed in Armageddon when half of Jerusalem is taken before Christ returns. He is the god of this world and Jesus didn't argue with him having control as a "usurper" type leader of all the Kingdoms of the world. Satan also will be given the limited short space of the last half of the Tribulation to more or less control the world but again he will fail to totally destroy the earth because God Himself makes the time short (see Matthew 24:22). Again; God is the one who allows these things; including the "strong delusion" He sends to decieve all those who didn't LOVE the truth but enjoyed unrighteousness ( 2 Thess. 2:11-12 rough translation). Once again at the end of the Millennium he has the final stand; which ends in his judgment cast into hell; and a mass of people as the sand of the sea; amazingly perishing despite seeing Christ on earth and living a utopian existance in the millennium.
Luke 17:26-27
As it was in days of Noah,so it will be in the days of the Son of man.They ate,drank,married,gave in marriage,until the day Noah entered the ark,the flood came and destroyed them all.So"This was the"modus vivendi" in Noahs'days.
We would say it was the same 'modus vivendi' of society in recent times,say around 1950-1985,it was similar to society in the days of Noah.It was common to eat and drink with development of large malls around the world at that time,it was common the celebration of weddings,existence of strong family ties,but as time went by,it began to deteriorate morally as in the time of Noah,when the sons of GOD mixed their seed with seed of the evil ones,giving rise to a corrupt and evil society- Genesis 6:2-3, due to the proliferation of adulterers and adulteresses.And the punishment came,yes,the flood came and only 8 people were saved by the Ark.
Comparing the society of Noah's days with a posterior society of Sodom and Gomorrah,at the time of Lot,let's see the differences,according Scriptures:
Luke 17:28-30 reveal:
28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day (in the current time) when the Son of man is revealed.
society of Noah's day..........................society of Sodom/Gomorrah
they ate and drank ..............................they ate and drank
they married and gave in marriage ....they bought and sold,they planted and built
Men of Sodom were wicked,immoral exceedingly,and sinners before the Lord- Genesis 13:13.There was no marriage,society was polluted of prostitutes,sodomites/ effeminate(gays),society was infested of prostitution and great sinners. The same occurs today. Lot was vexed with filthy conversations seeing and hearing their unlawful deeds- 2Peter 2:7-8 & Jude 1:6-7.
Look at earlier postings about ideas related to genetic DNA manipulation to render someone not human and therefore unredeemable. This would explain the wholesale destruction of all men except for Noah and his immediate family who was said to be "perfect" in his generations. ( Gen. 6:9). This would almost certainly have a primary reference to his genetic line not being contaminated with the sons of the giants or "men of renown" mentioned in Genesis 6:4. Christ came to redeem men not hybrid creatures and naturally angels that fell would also be unredeemable. Whether this business would be sold as an "evolutionary leap" or promise immortality or both is uncertain; but the "strong delusion" ultimately is sent by God; therefore men will worship the Beast and of course Satan who empowers him. The idea of rebellion comes to mind with what Cain did; and the original concept of the tower of Babel will come to its fruition "bringing the whole world together" in unity; so to speak.
The Tribulation likely begins with one man controlling all of the earth's wealth. That is seen in prophecies in Daniel 11:38 and prophecies such as him "dividing the land for gain" ( Daniel 11:39). See also Habukkuk 2:9 and the whole chapter there to see the consolidation of wealth. Despite his control of the 10 nation beast empire; we see in Revelation that the nations from the east and north amass to go after him. (sixth trumpet starting Revelation 9:13.) Therefore, he may have control over everyone economically but nations will still fight him. By Armageddon in Meddigo at least it appears all are damned after they are enticed to gather by the 3 demons from the frog like spirits coming from the "unholy" trinity. After fighting each other they turn and fight Christ which of course is futile. THose in the Ezekiel 38 campaign however have one sixth remain; I am guessing some don't have the mark and make it into the Millennium. I may discuss that later.
The sin of the sons of God having relations with women ( Gen. 6:2) and the resulting hybrid offspring seems to be clear as written; although some take it as some symbolic event. People often try to make a spurious claim of these being offspring of Cain and ignore the fact that all mankind was judged at the flood except for Noah and his immediate family (who I would say Genesis 6:9 indicates that his seed wasn't corrupted as the rest of mankind when it mentions that he was "perfect in his generations")
Science seems to indicate several mass extinctions separated by aeons of time; the greatest of which I believe is stated to be in the Cambrian mass extinction event the better part of 1 billion years ago; and the later one wiping out the dinosaurs and other creatures some 65 million years or so. What it can't explain; of course is how undigested food is found in dinosaurs that were obviously frozen to death in mass graves along with other complexities where trees; and catastrophic destruction of trees and other evidence clearly indicating a mass inundation of flood waters. As I alluded to in the first post today there is more than ample evidence of giant and advanced structures (pyramids in various countries; Balbak (or however it is spelled) and other giant sized structure found in islands in the Mediterranean and elsewhere in the world such as Stonehenge which defy explanation as to how the stones were moved and how they were cut to reflect advanced technology and often tied in with regular astronomical events with the direction they are facing.
Christians at least up until recently have understood that man's evil resulted in collateral damage to the rest of creation which continues to groan up until today ( Romans 8:19-22). It would seem that the last evil Satan is going to bring to pass after the mass appeal of alternate sexual lifestyles is a merging with AI. This guarantees damnation as Revelation promises.
Titus 1:16] They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
Christanity rebells when they have to be perfect thry immediately pass it on to Jesus when Jesus preached in Matthew 5:48 we (human beings) have to be perfect even as our Father which is in heaven is perfect. Why does Christanity argue agianst Jesus? Because they were never told the truth. Let's look in the bible to find more perfect people before, during and after, Jesus. Adam and Eve were in Genesis 1&2 before thry heard another gospel in Genesis 3 from Rev Serpant/Rev Devil.
Before: Genesis 6:9] These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.
Genesis 17:1] And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.
Deuteronomy 18:13] Thou shalt be perfect with the LORD thy God.
Job 1:1] There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.
2nd Chronicals 16:9] For the eyes of the LORD run to and fro throughout the whole earth, to shew himself strong in the behalf of them whose heart is perfect toward him. Herein thou hast done foolishly: therefore from henceforth thou shalt have wars.
Psalm 37:37] Mark the perfect man, and behold the upright: for the end of that man is peace.
During Jesus:
Matthew 1:[19] Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily.
See part 2
- A Creature of God
Genesis 1:27 "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he
them."
-Performance Issues
i.Low resistance to temptation
Genesis 3:13 "And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, the
serpent beguiled me, and I did eat."
ii.High level of corruption
Genesis 6:12 "And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon
the earth."
Puzzle
In light of these issues, what is the meaning of "in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."?
"the grave".
Christ was the "Lamb slain from the foundation of the world." Rev 13:8
Hebrews 4:2,3 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
Hebrews 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
Romans 3:10,11 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Genesis 6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.
And I Chris, find no Biblical support for your understanding of the Salvation of Old Testament Believers.
What you have said is not supported when comparing scripture with scripture throughout the WHOLE Bible. And your understanding does not address the many verses I have quoted regarding this subject and stems, I believe and am sorry to say, from a failure to recognize that that the Bible Alone and in its Entirety is, in fact, the ONE TRUE GODPEL OF SALVATION.
When you say that the Holy Spirit was not active in Salvation during the OT you are in essence saying that God was not active in Salvation.
When you say that the there was some efficacy toward Salvation in the sacrifices of the OT it is like saying that there is some efficacy in water baptism during the Church Age toward Salvation. And that is a Gospel of Grace plus Works which CANNOT save.
Noah was a sinner, just like everyone that God saves during the NT. "But Noah found GRACE in the eyes of the LORD." Genesis 6:8; just like every True Believer throughout the history of the world. And when Noah died physically, his body returned to the dust and he went to be with Christ in Heaven in his soul existence, just like every True Believer throughout the history of the world. He did not go to a place called Hades. Why? Because God had given him a new Resurrected Soul when God saved him, just like every True Believer throughout the history of the world. And the basis for Noah's Salvation was the Atonement of Christ, God Himself, Just like every true believer throughout the history of the world.
So once again, Chris, there is one and only one Salvation. One and only one True Gospel. And that gospel is circumscribed by the Bible ALONE and it's ENTIRETY.
Noah was 600; and one could argue it is a typology of the 6000 years of the earth's existence before the Tribulation; followed by the 1000 years of the Millennium by 2 Peter 3:8.
In the time before the flood known as "Antidiluvian"; clearly men lived longer than afterwards. Thus; Adam and many of his progeny lived for 900 plus years; interestingly no one made it quite to 1000; which may be reserved to those who survive in the Millennium due to long life spans once again at that time with a paradise type of earth; albeit still with fallen men (see Isaiah 65:20). There was therefore the likelihood that many were only 2 or 3 generations from Adam by the time the flood came along; so that secondhand accounts of God's story of creation would leave wicked men without excuse. Enoch lived interestingly enough 365 years then was taken; perhaps somehow indicating a day symbolizing a year (although the old calendar was 360 days old); God also told Noah that He would only contend with men 120 years in Genesis 6:3 which could indicate their future lifespan limit; or the time left before the flood from that point.
In any case; God is longsuffering not wishing anyone to perish. ( 2 PEter 3:9). It is interesting that this verse is right after the one above that I quoted; and certainly explains why He waited so long to judge. Noah was a "preacher of righteousness" ( 2 Peter 2:5) but the narrative shows that only 8 were saved in the boat; and they were his immediate family. Sodom's destruction also followed a similar vein; in that case only Lot; his 2 daughters and wife came out of the city; and his wife turned back and was destroyed. In the flood; Nephilim would have contaminated man's bloodline as I see it from Genesis 6:9 that explains why no one else COULD be saved. His patience is seen with Sodom as well ( Gen. 18:32).
Thanks for your response.
I don't think you will find it worded the way you worded it in your post with the actual word "Immediately".
But salvation is immediate when one truly believes and throughout the scripture it teaches that.
Actually in your original post you mentioned "some saying this before judgment".
I believe in your past posts you believes no one knows they're saved until Judgment.
The response from most of us is that a Christian is not part of that Judgment.
However we won't get into that here.
Here's what I will like to declare yo you.
I honestly believe there has been verses given that declares what you are looking for. And the Bible as a whole speaks on this aspect.
God spoke also in types that speaks on this.
Here's a few examples;
When God destroyed Sodom, When was lot saved?
When he left?
To answer that we would have to ask, When was he declared righteous.
God told Abraham he wouldn't destroy it if he found so many righteous. But do you notice the Angels wouldn't do anything until Lot was out of there!!
Genesis 19:21-22.
So was Lot saved before or after Judgment?
Let's look at Noah's Ark in the same light. When was Noah declared righteous?
When the Ark doors opened and closed or when God told him to start building it? Genesis 6:8. (The ark is a type.)
Adam, Galatians 4:28 says "Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
When we look at the story of Abraham getting ready to offer up Isaac as a sacrifice, If you study that carefully you'll see Abraham had faith before he started his journey! In Genesis 22:7-8 Isaac asked Abraham where is the Lamb for the burnt offering?
Abraham said, God will provide himself a burt offering!!
Abraham knew Isaac was the Child God promised would be his heir and he would have to raise him from the dead.
We're children of promise also!
By faith we're joint heirs of the promise with Abraham. God keeps his covenants and promises.
We're saved now.
God bless.
This is just my opinion; when Adam and Eve ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil the knowledge of imagination entered, and we see how imagination of thoughts became the desires of the flesh. Imagination makes it possible to experience a whole world inside the mind. One can imagine a sound, taste, smell, physical sensation, feeling, emotion. Fantasy becomes reality in our mind.
We see in scripture its effects Genesis 6:5 Proverbs 6:18 Jeremiah 13:10 it battles against our conscience, and it suckers us into the belief it is a secret in our minds, it's ok because no one knows. But as David told Solomon God knows the hearts of all, 1 Chronicles 28:9.
Technology is good and beneficial to man but in our imagination, it is intoxicating and addictive, it can create a world with no limits and Satan uses it for his evil and it may be a key to the seduction of the beast and false prophet who are coming. Deceived has a scary and deceptive description, to be taken out of the way, the sad thing someone may not even know it. Galatians 6:7-10
It is like the poem the spider to the fly. "Will you walk into my parlour said the spider to the fly; Tis the prettiest little parlour that ever you did spy". A temptation that looks innocent, but death lurks hidden inside.
God bless,
RLW
- A Creature of God
Genesis 1:27
"So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."
-Performance Issues
i.Low resistance to temptation
Genesis 3:13
"And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, the serpent beguiled me, and I did eat."
ii.High level of corruption
Genesis 6:12
"And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth."
Puzzle
I light of these issues, what is the meaning of "in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."?
Genesis 3:19; Genesis 6:3, violance or destroyed by the flood ( Genesis 6:5-7,11-13;17). Only Noah his wife, Shem, Ham, and Japheth their 3 wives survived. that means only eight people survived out of Adams and eve's children and grand children.
The point! not all of Noah's children listened to God. They followed Satan the devil and his lies Genesis 3. when you read about the Canaanites ( Genesis 13:7; Leviticus 18:1-5) this bad nation came through Ham descendance ( Genesis 10:6). or Ammorites, some Noah's descendance created a nation by their family name Genesis 11. When Jehovah ( psalm 83:18) confused their language they all spread out and became nations of people like you see today.
to the point: Abraham was a righteous man who lived in Canaan. but one of God's angels told him to leave Canaan then became a father to a nation of Israel ( Genesis 17:1-8). God name Jacob Israel ( Genesis 32:28). this is how a Nation of Isreal came about. Canaan land later became Jerusalem belonging to Israel the Jews.
However, Israel repeatedly sinned by worshiping other gods. even Solomon the last king worshiped false Gods ( Nehemiah 13:23-27) Jesus turned to the Gentiles which means nation who will believe ( John 3:16,17).
However, their are some Israelites who did believe, but most rejected Jesus.- Acts 1:6-8; Matthew 24:14; 2 Timothy 3:13-17
It's a lot of info. but I hope the bible answered your question HOW A NATION BECAME A INDEPENDANT NATION
Hello GiGi
My purpose when answering that post from Yasser was not actually to dig deep in the Word of God but just simplify it in a simple answer.
I also believe that there will not be an Israelitic Kingdom on this earth, neither in the futute earth. Those promises that were said for Israel by God were and are still fulfilled in the church. The only promise that is left yet for Hebrews is their salvation. And we know that that will take place during the antichrist's rule on this earth at the end. Besides according to the scriptures there is no room left for an Israelitic kingdom. it is not going to happen now, neither in the last week, neither in the millenium, neither on the new earth that will be creared by God after the final Judgement.
I don't believe that there are different requirements for Hebrews and gentiles as far as salvation is concerned. We all are justified by the Blood of the Lamb.
What I wanted to say is:
In the O.T. there were people who tried to be righteous, they made efforts to follow God's Will. But like all people they were doing sins. So we have people that did righteous things but also sins. So they were in a sence righteous, this is called MAN'S RIGHTEOUSNESS. It is not a perfect righteousness, actually it is far far away from what God calls righteousness. But still God sometimes called them rightous because He appriciated their efforts, like Zacharias and Elisabeth in Luke 1:6, "And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.". Also Noe is called righteous, Genesis 6:8-9, "But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God."
Also read Ezekiel 14:14, "Though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousness, saith the Lord GOD."
According to Genesis 4:15; a mark set upon Cain was to cause vengeance to anyone who would attempt to take his life. Compare this to the Mark of the Beast in Revelation 13 and we find some interesting parallels.
First; Satan was a "murderer from the beginning." ( John 8:44). It is no surprise that the first child of Adam was to be attacked after Adam and Eve fell. Having failed the test of God he let temptation rule over him and slayed Abel his brother. Satan is also said to steal and destroy ( John 10:10) along with his lying. We see the progeny of Adam and Eve being destroyed; along with stealing from the parents being able to give an inheritance and Abel receiving it.
Later on in Genesis 4:24 Lamech tries to gain vengeance by his declaration of seventy times seventy for himself for his own violent actions. Kind of like the opposite of forgiveness for the same in Matthew 18:21-22.
The apparent resurrection of Antichrist from a deadly wound as well as being able to kill the two prophets that tormented men will inspire him to declare indestructibility as well as being able to effectively fight against God. He will likely convince men that he can live forever by merging with AI; and likely the DNA of the Nephilim or something to that affect will be part of that plan; as it was in Genesis 6 when all the descendants of men were destroyed for that reason (see Genesis 6:8-9 on Noah being perfect in his generations). Hence at that time we saw no repentance except for Noah; his wife; his 3 sons and their wives.
Whatever the case men will be unredeemable once they take the mark ( Revelation 14:9 and other passages). That will be the fulfillment of 2 Thessalonians 2:11 where people willingly reject the truth and believe The Lie.
The verse on those who dwell on the earth ( Revelation 11:10; also see Revelation 6:10 and other passages) indicates the sea of lost humanity. Revelation 13:8 concludes this for all unsaved.
It didn't take Noah that long to build the Ark (some have calculated the figure should be around 70 years), but from God's announcement of 120 years left for mankind's life on Earth, there would have been a long period (long, for us today) between the announcement & the start of the building work & the coming of the rain.
And back to the Kenite origins. I have seen opinions that indicate that the Kenites descended from Cain, hence not all flesh were destroyed by the flood. And yet, we get an example in Judges 1:16 indicating that Jethro, Moses' father-in-law, was a Kenite. And then in Numbers 10:29, Jethro is referred to as Raguel (also called 'Reuel' in Exodus 2:18), as a Midianite. What would you make of this? We know that it is the same man, Jethro, that is referred to, but can we assume a connection between the two families (Kenites & Midianites)? If there is and we go back to the immediate descendants of Noah's sons, we can follow the descendency from Shem through to Terah to Abram to Midian (through Keturah): Genesis 10:21-31; Genesis 11:10-32; Genesis 25:1-4 (here, we see Midian born to Abraham through Keturah, of whom (Midian), Jethro is connected to. If Jethro is also recorded as being a Kenite, there must be another family line coming through Midian (maybe through a daughter, not mentioned (only sons) in Genesis 25:4).
So, it appears that we must be open to the possibility that the Kenites were not from Cain (as much as a similarity exists in those names), but could have come through the descendants of Shem & the Abraham.
That's the way I have it in that verse also.
I believe it's used like that here in Genesis 6:9-10 also.
"These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.
And Noah begat three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth."
Also here in Genesis 36.
Now these are the generations of Esau, who is Edom.
Esau took his wives of the daughters of Canaan; Adah the daughter of Elon the Hittite, and Aholibamah the daughter of Anah the daughter of Zibeon the Hivite;
AND THIS GROUP IF PEOPLE GOES ON UNTIL YOU GET TO
Genesis 36:9 and it gives a list of those of Esau in mount Seir.
"And these are the generations of Esau the father of the Edomites in mount Seir:"
IT'S USED THAT WAY IN
GENESIS 37:1-2 ON JACOB'S GENEALOGY.
I agree with Brother Chris, it's hard to come up with any scripture that is conclusive.
However I would like to present a theory
I Genesis 6:9 it says;
These are the generations of Noah: NOAH WAS A JUST MAN AND "PERFECT IN HIS GENERATIONS", and Noah walked with God.
This came right before verses 4-5 when he said vs 4-"There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when THE SONS OF GOD CAME IN UNTO THE DAUGHTERS OF MEN, ( AND THEY BARE CHILDREN TO THEM ), the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
( Verse 4 the women bare children to the Giants, "No particular line as shown in Genesis6:2." This includes daughters of Seth. )
LOOK AT VERSE 5 AT WHAT SEEMS TO BE THE OUTCOME.
vs 5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Vs 6. And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
There is two things to note about Noah in these next 3 verses,
Why was he chosen? Because he was sinless? I don't think so, Vs 8 says Noah found "GRACE" in the eyes of the LORD. "GRACE is unmerited favor." Vs 9 says he was a just man. "We're justified by faith"
Genesis 6:7-9.
I believe Noah was justified the same way Abel was. "By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain," Hebrews 11:4.
So that brings us to a phrase in verse 9. Noah was "PERFECT IN HIS GENERATIONS"
If you read Genesis 6:2-11 on through it seems as though Man had 2 issues. They didn't find grace in the Lords eyes because of lack of faith and there were those whos Genealogy was contaminated. "Perhaps by the Son's of God.
We don't know if Shem, Ham, and Japheth wives were or not. Nor do we know about Noah's wife.
Just a thought.
God bless.
As examples, we know what Genesis 6:4 and Numbers 13:33 tell us. The pre-flood nephilim are described as the product of the union of the sons of God with the daughters of men. We can choose to read this as 'every offspring that they had, produced giant-like men (& women)'. Could they also have produced more 'normal' sized offspring? We're not told - only an assumption & probably not a far-fetched one at that.
Then we see nephilim appear post-flood. We can't deny this reality because the Word gives it to us, so there must be an answer. But whatever the correct answer, it would be wrong to throw out or amend Scriptures such as Genesis 7:7 & 1 Peter 3:20 which tell us that only eight souls (of human-kind) were saved, to the destruction of all other humans. Therefore, based on this Truth, we could come up with opinions, such as, could the sons of God (maybe seen as the line of Shem, and previously, written of Seth), also inter-mixed with the daughters of men (maybe products of Ham & Japheth, & previously, of Cain), & produced giant offspring? So, the mention of giants anywhere in the Bible should not denote that giants were evil people because of their size, but that is how they grew, maybe arising from aberrations (read, birth defect), as the descendants of their first fathers grew in number & inter-mixed. Obviously, not every birth produced giants, but there were many in those days, as there are even some today.
So really, we are not given definitive answers, & even what I've given as a possibility, remains only that. But I think we can be certain, if the Bible says that all humans were destroyed because of their gross sins, then we must accept that as fact. As well, the Anakim were not judged as the old world was - giantism was never a sin.
If Cain's descendents died in the flood, why are the Kenites talked about after the flood? Numbers 24:21-22 further showing that Kenites came from Cain and survived the flood.
The sons of Anak the Anakin also survived the flood. They were the giants in Genesis 6:4 & Numbers 13:33.
It is written that Noah brought on the ark two of ALL unclean flesh and seven pairs of clean flesh. Then he was to bring the animals,birds and insects.
The animals are mentioned AFTER all flesh.
Why do they the Kenites walk the earth now? They claim to be Jews but are not. Name stealers.
As always, thank you for helping us to dig deeper in the original language and study scripture words and even letters as I believe often makes a big difference!
I tend to hold view of the sons of God/disrobed Angel's theory.
Thanks again brother and God bless.
Spencer
Verse 2 in the Hebr text:
"uirau(andthey-are-seeing) bni(sons-of) ealeim (theElohim) ath bnuth(daughters-of) eadm (thehuman) ..."
It talks about the sons of Elohim. But IF in this case the word El/Elohim means mighty/strong and not God then it is going to be "That the sons of the mighty saw the daughters of men ..." Who are the sons of the mighty? They are the giants described in verse 4. That is why the children of those with the daughters of other people were mighty (giants in the Septuagint). Because neither the "Angelic" nor the "Sethite" theories can explain why their children were also mighty (or giants according to the Septuagint). So if this is right then the text says that the sons of the giants liked the daughters of other men and took them as wives who bare children to them, giants like them. Well, it makes sense to be honest. It is not what I believe, I actually tend towards the "Sethite" theory but searching on the net for information I got that staff, maybe it is worth thinking about it.
GBU
Hello Spencer
Apart from the "Sethite" and "Angel" views there is another view as well.
Introduction: The word "El", prural "Elohim" means not only God/s in Hebr but it comes from a root word for strong, powerful, mighty, noble, Judge etc.
Example. Psalm 82:1, "God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods." (KJV).
Lets see in Hebr, "Aleim(Elohim) ntzb (one-being-stationed) bodth(incongregation-of) al(El) b qrb(inwithin-of) aleim(Elohim) - taken from the Online Hebrew Interlinear Bible).
The expression "congregation of El" is translated as "congregation of the mighty" in KJV as it should be since the word "El" in this case means "mighty", not "God". This is how this specific verse is translated in almost all Bibles. But I found out that the Septuagint text translates it differently, i.e. "God stands in the congregation of gods, he sees among the gods". That version translates the word "El" as "God", not "mighty". I am writting all those to make you understand that in Hebrew "El" apart from God it also means all those I wrote above.
So lets go to Genesis 6:1-4
"1- And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, 2 - That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; ... 3 - And the LORD .... 4 - There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men(giants in the Septuagint text) which were of old, men of renown." (KJV)
God bless.
The part of Gen. 6 that is being discussed was only vs. 1-4, about the sons of God and mating with the daughters of men (ha-a-dam). The "sons of God" are only 5 times in the Old Testament, and the Son of God was said once in Daniel 3. I believe I listed all of the scripture that has the sons of God where all references are to angels.
I could write more but I usually keep it short, but it would not change my understanding. Not all understand it the same and that's ok. If you have another view, you want me to see please show it, I always study what is not the same as my understanding. Truth is what is important not being right or wrong.
God bless,
RLW